> "A gamemaster who hates meta-currency (such as "Fate points", "action points", "bennies", and the like) is simply opposed to player agency and player control of the narrative. Such gamemasters are overly controlling, addicted to railroading, and in general are opposed to the players enjoying any part of the game besides the narrow corridor he forces them down. In other words, such Gamemasters do not want to roleplay, they want to write novels, and terrible ones at that."
>>47172239
Get a job.
>>47172239
This depends on whether they roll in front of or behind the screen.
Also, don't pretend that /tg/ is good at player agency. A solid third are, maybe, but the rest want to tell their story
>>47172333
I have a job. Today is my day off.
>>47172339
No. The point is that a GM who is against the players being able to spend Fate points to influence the narrative, is overly controlling and does not want a cooperative taletop experience.
> GM: has infinite power over the story
> Player: Is only allowed to control his character's attempted actions
Why is this? It's unbalanced, and unfair, and allows a shitty GM to railroad players through his own personal wankfest plot.
>>47172430
You're still the main characters. And are you arguing for balance between the GM and players? That is utter nonsense. You need a better GM or you are That Guy if you think of it as a competition between you.
>>47172239
Get fucked
>>47172239
Generally, yeah. I've rarely heard an argument against meta-currencies that didn't boil down to "its my goddamn story."
Player agency and control over narrative is cool, but it has nothing to do with metacurrency. They're entirely unrelated concepts.
There are plenty of RPGs which encourage strong player inclusion and agency into writing the story, without having any metacurrency other than HP.
Even the opening forward to DND5e from Mike fucking Mearls calls it a 'collaborative storytelling game'.
>>47172658
i sometimes hear "it breaks muh immersion because muh character isn't aware of fate points!" ignoring all the other little things you do in RPG that break immersion.
>>47172430
There's a simple solution: it's called be adults.
>>47172239
Player agency is not secret pathway to better game sessions.
The first step you have to do, OP, is to accept that ON AVERAGE carefully planned plots/characters/etc (by someone who knows what he's doing) are superior to ad hoc improvisations.
George RR Martin didn't write SOIAF novels ad hoc either after all. Quality work needs time and effort. Spontaneous ideas can be occasionally golden but are on average pretty thin.
>>47172239
The main problem with fate and metacurrency is when you have disruptive players. This is the same as the asshole playing a Chaotic Evil rogue who tries to steal from the party.
I've had players in Fate blow their points summoning blow and hookers or try to spend their shit on "And then the bad guy dies of a heart attack, I spent the fate you have to let it happen now!" And similar bullshit.
As usual, it's all about the player base, and who it is you play with.
>>47172768
>SOIAF
>Quality
In any case, in decent systems, metacurrency isn't powerful enough to make you throw out whole plots (unless it's a plot with a very obvious solution), and characters can show up whenever it could make sense.plus, even if they circumvent your whole plot hook, you can always just slap a new label on that unused dungeon crawl and put it elsewhere
What are some systems that handle fate points or similar well? I am working on my own system and can't decide how much control over a situation is too much for the price.
In my game XP is used to buy items and character advancements (similar to how finding treasure got you XP in earlier D&D editions), as well as burnt for use like fate points.
>>47172239
The problem with metacurrency is that it removes opportunity for failure. Having players able to alter the world and have a say in things is great - talk with your players, design a world and a story together. Metacurrency just invites and encourages whiny manchildren to screech "No I'm the best, I'm going to keep redoing this until I get it right!" Throwing points at something so that you never fail and your precious feelings never get hurt doesn't build a good story, talking and discussing things does. Metacurrency not required.
>>47172910
FFG's star wars line does it fairly well.
>>47172910
Fate Core works perfectly well, and most understandings are based off of people not understanding the rules.
What you can do with a Fate point is generally pretty limited - making yourself succeed, making someone else fail, or declaring a minor fact, e.g. "the party is right by the garden" or "chandeliers are overhead".
>>47172239
>>47172658
I absolutely fucking hate that shit, as a DM or a player. Moreso as a player, actually -- 40k RPG largely has no thrill for me since I know my character's making it out of the session alive, that's if you can get past my -20 for you to hit me, force screen, cover, dodge, toughness+armor (not exactly the best defenses but thems the breaks), and if it happens to be something corrupting or insanifying there are a huge varieties of ways to proof yourself against that too.
As a player, I like control in a story -- through my character doing stuff.
I don't particularly mind them as rerolls etc., since God knows regularly succeeding on relevant actions is hard enough.
>>47172986
If you give them too many points, then yeah.
Give them a limited pool and a lot of challenges to spend it on.
>>47172239
No, I hate FATE points because building an entire game around managing an economy of points in order to perform basic tasks is a stupid idea. If you want to make a narrative focused game then do it, don't make me turn everything into an 'aspect'
>>47172986
It kind of depends on the system, if spending the meta points gets you simple stuff like one shot bonuses, or warp things entirely.
I'm a bit more wary of milestone systems games like Cortex, where in basically monetizes the roleplaying process for meta points and profit, instead of being a natural part of the game.
>I angst about being ethnic for a few minutes. How much XP did that just get me?
>>47172239
So?
Deal and Grow
>>47172662
meta currency lessens the burden of storytelling on the dm. the most fun session of dnd ive ever dmd was a couple of weeks ago when I experimented with meta currency. meta currency makes running a good, collaborative, story exponentially easier.
>>47172239
As a DM with a fondness for hexcrawls, I frankly don't give a damn.
>>47172986
If that's the case then your metacurrency is overvalued and/or overabundant. The easiest fix is to limit things to one use of metacurrency per task.
>>47173044
>I hate FATE points because building an entire game around managing an economy of points in order to perform basic tasks is a stupid idea.
That's not how it works and you know it.
>>47172430
If the players have the same power as the GM, then he isn't a "GM" anymore.
It sounds like what you want is freeform RP, not a roleplaying *GAME*.
>>47173155
It absolutely is. It introduces a pervasive element of system mastery into a game that's supposed to be about getting the rules out of the way and creating a story together.
>>47172333
>That pic
>What is domestication?
>>47173044
>>47173044
what game encourages blowing fate points to lift the pale of water?
>>47172339
Teej is Titus, essentially.
>>47173381
you can't domesticate a hobo
>>47172239
No. Railroading is changing the game world in such a way that the only reasonable option for the players is to go down the narrative path you want. That is COMPLETELY different from not letting players just cheat a specified number of times.
If you wanna do something hard you figure out a god damned way to do it with your character and what you have with you, or you leave and come back with a better way to do it
>>47172339
If thou didst ever hold me in thy heart
Absent thee from felicity a while,
And in this harsh world draw thy breath in pain
To tell my story.
But seriously, I think that's a problem everyone has, not just /tg/. Everyone has difficulty relating to or caring about other people's characters, especially when they have such a wide variety of personalities, goals, and backstories. Everyone tends to remember their own actions the most. Everyone sees themselves as the victim. It's just part of being human.
>>47173737
FATE
All my players have ignored any metacurrency I've had in a game and generally been against it.
I run vaguely simulationist sandbox games where I just use my tables and area descriptions to improv. So it's not like there's a rail for them to follow anyway.
I think the issue with metacurrency boils down to that a player is making decisions from a player perspective rather than a character perspective. Same players I have who ignore metacurrency also seem to dislike per day and per encounter mechanics.
>>47174000
In fact, the only time I've seen the players use metacurrency was in a 5e game where I started handing out inspiration points based on sacrifices to and dealings with gods.
>>47173831
Have you tried?
>>47172239
You don't need narrative currency if you just accept any good ideas from everyone.
>>47174101
Nah. But local city council did. Results are disappointing.
>>47172239
I couldn't disagree more. While it might be true in some cases, it's at least as common for a GM to be opposed to meta-currency because it reduces the chances for a player to experience the consequences of their actions.
If you can just blow a fate point to win a fight or change a mind, then you can get away with a lot more shit before any of it actually catches up to you. In many/most games, that often means that a player with even the barest understanding of the system will never actually have a negative consequence attached to their character, unless they do something tremendously stupid like charging the king in his own throne room or something.
You say that having meta-currency reduces the effectiveness of a railroaded plot-heavy game. That might be true to some extent, but I say it reduces the effectiveness of an open-ended sandbox game, too. By their nature, the various meta-currencies tend to reduce *all* games to mechanics-heavy roll-playing hack-and-slash games. Yes, even the actual roleplaying can often be boiled down to just 'social combat'.
>>47172239
Players have enough agency already. They make literally all of the decisions once play begins. A proper GM simply sets up scenarios, and follows through with fair consequences based on the player's actions.
Further control by the players is unnecessary, assuming a competent and fair GM. A shitty, railroading GM is just, a shitty GM.
>>47172729
>i sometimes hear "it breaks muh immersion because muh character isn't aware of fate points!" ignoring all the other little things you do in RPG that break immersion.
Immersion doesn't exist, moron.
>>47173000
It's also the only thing that FFG Star Wars does well.
>>47174283
>Further control by the players is unnecessary, assuming a competent and fair GM.
Except the gamemaster can still fuck up the story and the players won't have any power against it. Meta currency are necessary. Even D&D 5e has them. How can you say you have a right to play RPGs without them?
>>47174180
I don't know. Utah crunched the numbers and found it was cheaper to house and feed their indigent populations than jail them over winter or deal with the thousands of emergency room visits no health care, regular diet, or protection from the elements causes. Maybe your city isn't very good.
>>47174536
Jesus Christ anon, you're putting "story" onto way, WAY too high of a pedestal. They're role playing games, not storytelling games.
You don't "need" a story at all, its wholly unnecessary. There will always, 100% of the time, emerge a nice story even if there is none intentionally created, as nature abhors a vacuum.
No meta nonsense required.
Fate points, action points, and bennies are merely a mechanic disconnected with the game world. If anything, they limit player agency, by saying "you can only affect the game world this much, but no further." They are worse than trash and good for nothing.
You know how my players have agency? They can literally make up parts of the game world, if they want. If they want a certain story, I give it to them. Only a fool limits player agency to some artificial mechanic: if you want your players to have control over the narrative, all you have to do is ask.
>>47174668
Seriously. I don't like "oh I cash in my Cool Things post, there's now a swimming pool in the dungeon!" "WTF?" mechanics, but I am always 100% on board with letting PCs flesh out whatever NPCs, societies, towns or whatever they want. If they propose a storyline, I go for it. I've even made such the focus of an entire campaign before.
>>47174536
Don't be a shitty gm or play with shitty gm's.
It's pretty simple.
If the gm starts radically altering the setting or npc's halfway through, then that's the cardinal sin of running a game.
>>47172239
>If you hate this mechanic, you are overly controlling, addicted to railroading, and in general don't want your players to have fun
>tl;dr stop liking what I don't like
Cool bro, story
>>47172239
Who are you double quoting?
>>47174752
Wouldn't it be more
>stop disliking what I like
>>47174518
Think so?
my favorite meta currency are cards that allow the players to change the scene before it is described. they get to add elements to it that result in interesting encounters.
then there are cards that add or change something about a scene already existing. this makes encounters more dynamic, like the pirates of the Caribbean movies.
its fun for everyone.
>>47174536
How exactly can the gamemaster "fuck up" the story when the story is generated by the players interacting with the "sets" around their characters?
Moreover, are you saying that meta currency is necessary in order to avoid death or an undesirable outcome?
I think that's a bit of a foolish attitude, since a story can progress through failure. A group of conquering heroes are defeated by a rival and exiled elsewhere, and the story changes from one of conquest and rulership to one of exploration and survival.
I don't see this as a bad thing.
Character death is not a bad thing either. Pen and paper games should never have a plot so flimsy that a character's death derails it. Sounds like shitting planning, shitty improvisation to me.
Besides, without the possibility of character death, there's no stakes. Winning all the time is boring.
>>47174701
>Seriously. I don't like "oh I cash in my Cool Things post, there's now a swimming pool in the dungeon!" "WTF?" mechanics,
Nice strawman. No, we are saying that FATE points allow chararters to control the narative in ways that they cannot in limited, unimaginative games like Pathfinder or D&D.
>>47172239
Players (for the most part) don't really need or deserve any more player agency than describing their attempted actions anyway. A player's attention is most likely solely directed at the present state of their character, not the story of the game as a whole. When making decisions in character, do you ask yourself what action would make for a better story for the GM? No, because that's not how being a player works. You make decisions based on your character, and how they feel at the moment. It's the GM's job to prevent the story from being about one singular player, and while some GMs abuse this power to make it all about THEIR story, it doesn't change the fact that it's a neccesary and good power to have. Players are by definition self interested, and will act accordingly. This means that player actions will almost invariably lead "off the rails" of any story designed to include all of the players. Being able to "railroad" your players into staying together as a group and telling a collaborative story is not a bad thing, and being able to put player's attempted actions through the filter of "roll this check" is good for the group. Actions that act outside of this narrative filter (while not *inherently* disruptive to the group story) are likely to advance one player's ideals or goals separate (and maybe even AWAY from) from the group goals, and giving all players this ability is just asking for a disruption in group dynamic by giving players disproportionate narrative power. Despite what /tg/ will yell at you, "railroading" is a neccesary part of GMing if you want a coherent game that doesn't allow one clever player vastly more narrative power than others. Hell, even /tg/ will agree that rails are ok as long as the players can't tell that they're being railroaded.
tl;dr: I'm drunk and contrarian, fight me
>>47174894
A group of conquering heros can die because a bad roll against a house cat, destroying the story in a ridiculous game
I'm the kinda gm that uses a spreadsheet based on trade distances to determine prices in their setting.
So I'm around the opposite end of the spectrum from folks who use fate points.
Story is optional to running a game. I prefer tabletop gaming to be an analog version of virtual reality and fate points run pretty counter to that goal.
>>47174965
...How? In what game other than WoD is a housecat a match for even starting characters? Why are they even fighting a cat anyways?
>>47174965
>Housecats are deadly to PCs
That only happens in 3.PF. Which, I wouldn't allow to happen because it's retarded. If PCs attack a house cat, my response is usually "It dies [in some particular way which suits the method they used]."
This is why having GMs with common sense is necessary.
>>47174913
>Nice strawman.
Not at all, adding to the scenery is one of the more prosaic functions in meta mechanics.
>limited, unimaginative
Meta mechanics don't make the game more "imaginative."
>>47174729
>Don't be a shitty gm or play with shitty gm's.
What an idiotic statement. It's like saying to a guy trying to drive a broken-down car "just don't be such a shitty driver!"
Or telling fat ugly retards "just be yourself bro!"
It's stupid as fuck. I am talking about a balance of power that affecst the very core of an RPG experience. You are just putting out the same copypasta advice you respond to anyone with a complaint about an RPG system.
I bet you think 3.5 caster supremacy is all the GM's fault, too.
>>47174965
A game with unbelievably retarded mechanics, way worse than say early D&D's housecat rules, isn't grounds for meta mechanics.
Character death is a fine development.
>>47174855
Yes. Please tell me what else it does well, or better than another system, that justifies me spending 60 bucks on another piece of crap Star Wars system?
> inb4 you say I should read a 400 page pDF on my computer instead of buying it
Why should I invest time in learning this game?
>>47175032
I'm not pleased to be saying this, but if it bothers you that much:
Have you tried not playing 3.PF?
>>47175055
> thinking I play 3.PF
I don't. So there's your argument BTFO right there. Got anything else to say?
>>47175079
If you don't play it, then what's the problem?
You're literally just yelling at people that they shouldn't play something you don't like and don't play. So what? I think it's a flawed system too, but that's why I try not to play it.
>>47175032
I stopped playing 3.5 about 8 years ago senpai.
Your argument is that we need metanarrative mechanics to counter the effects of shitty gm's. So what if the gm isn't shitty?
I don't see any reason why railroading and lack of protagonism occurs because of lacking metanarrative mechanics. In 3.5's case, the complexity of the system makes improv difficult and encourages the gm to stick the players only onto places they've prepped. I don't see how that has to do with a lack of metacurrency.
If your argument isn't based on mechanics, then don't expect responses based on mechanics.
>>47175118
He thinks 3.5 and fate are the only options for people to play. Probably doesn't have a good understanding of design theory or a lot of roleplaying experience desu. If he thinks player agency is as simple as adding fate points to a game and that games without them are always 100% unimaginative railroads.
>>47172239
What about a player who hates them?
>>47174999
Not per se a house cat but a threat so insignificant in the narrative that the defeat seems impossible, but mechanically can be possible
The there's another case that happened to me many times: the heroic moment, in a game where rolls, and therefore, randomness, dictate everything you can have "planned" heroic moments. An example, your group is in a hurry and someone has to stay behind, sacrificing himself even, to give time to the others, then, due rolls, enemies just pass over him like nothing making his sacrifice unless and leaving the res of the group with one less man but against the same odds as before.
Another example, your character is half dead but you give a speech that gives goosebumps to the interest table, then you roll a nat1 and thar epic moment is suddenly Adam Sandler tier comedy.
That's why I think fate points, action points and similar aren't bad and sometimes they're even needed.
>>47172910
GURPS added a new system for this in Power-Ups: Impulse Buys. It has options for all the ways you can run these systems, including both spending XP and replenishing pools. Then goes through a ton of possible uses for fate points.
Basically, it lets you imitate Willpower from WoD, karma from Shadowrun, etc. Depending on the options you pick.
I see gaming as collaborative storytelling. Karma systems let you the player shape turning points and dramatic moments. They can also represent times when the character wants something badly enough to squeeze out that last bit of heroic effort.
Not simulationist by any means, but very dramatic and cool.
>>47175248
Can't have*
I swear to God, phone, next time you're gonna get flushed down the toilet
A bad Gm says "it's my story" A good Gm says "It's our story"
I like fate points if it lets players be braver in attempting rule of cool a couple of times per session. A lot more fun seeing the barbarian try and rip a troll in half with his bare hands then just another axe hit, not to mention times when a character should always succeed and failing because of rng.
Not to mention the whole role playing aspect it can give. A cleric who's faith was fading being aware of fate changing something that was going to happen? A meek man surviving an attack by the bbeg and starting a world of cardboard speech because he burnt an edge? That's the kind of shit tabletop lives for.
Just don't let them blow their second chances often, hammer new players with warnings that it should be used as a hail Mary or desperation power and it is a grand ability that's spoiled me in regards to earlier tabletop systems.
>>47175248
Consider the alternative:
In the first case, shit happens. Sometimes the heroes fail, and they die. The consequences of that could make for a fun game.
In the second case, most skills in PnP RPGs are unnecessary. The old editions of D&D didn't have them, then they were an optional part of the rules system. It wasn't until 2e that they became an assumed part of the game.
Seriously, Persuasion/Diplomacy actually hurts roleplaying because you put resources into it, and can still fail, which not only makes you feel like you wasted your meta-game resources, but it also ruins that great improv speech you gave.
Try ditching all by the most necessary ones. Really, give it a try. A competent and fair GM will take what you say into account along with the circumstances (and a measure of allowance for players who themselves are not masters of speechcraft) and determine the consequences of such.
More often than not, if it's reasonable, it works. If you walk up to a prince and purloin his hat, and then try to convince him that it's been yours all along, you're probably going to fail (with the appropriate consequences).
>>47172239
This was posted just yesterday and it's already being shitposted i see.
>>47175547
When? I literally typed it out today
>>47175248
Some deaths are in vain. Nothing wrong with that. RPGs don't have to be cinematic and I certainly don't find them more interesting if they are.
However retreat mechanics are totally borked in most RPGs, and GMs also usually interpret all enemies as chasing the PCs full speed. I noticed that in HP Lovecraft's stories, the VERY gribbly beasts nonetheless don't chase the protagonists hard, or at all.
>>47175507
The problem is that you can't balance the amount of fate points to give each player without knowing how long the session is. And I don't like giving players fate points as a reward because that seems like it would be condescending. Not to mention it takes away the ambiguity of whether or not their decisions were ultimately good or not.
Bennies made my Savage Worlds players into super human monsters because I was playing with more people and for less time than the book expected.
>>47174913
>limited, unimaginative games like Pathfinder or D&D
translates into
>"I have no imagination of my own and am only able to see the rules at face value. Therefore, I require a system to tell me what I can and cannot imagine through the use of currency. Furthermore, my character's are all bland and uninspired with no motivations whatsoever, which surely must be the fault of previously stated games limiting my non-existent creative scope."
>>47175045
>is literally asking to be spoonfed information about an RPG because he's not sure he's going to like it and isn't willing to read a free PDF to see if he does like it
Do you need your diapers changed as well?
And isn't it past your bed time little one?
>>47174938
Basically a fancy way of saying "I know how to tell stories better than my players".
Not having a specific role to play doesn't make you somehow more "objective" to the world. If anything the culprits in the "I win, ha ha ha" department are the GMs. That's my experience, anyway.
>>47175045
You? You shouldn't, you've clearly made up your mind about a perfectly good game system without actually having tried it, so I'm not going to waste my energy.
Hit Points are a metacurrency.
>>47172239
Players can have metapoints when they're willing to do the gruntwork of statting the shit they bring into the game through their use. I rarely see that happen.
>>47173831
But you can treat their mental illness so they stop being a burden on us all instead of weighting society down so you can feel good about being an asshole.
>>47175865
Nah, as you can't actually spend them and they refer to something the PCs are largely aware of (that they are getting fucked up).
In the very rare cases that you can spend them on something, its generally flavored as channeling very harmful energies or whatever.
>>47175827
Y'know what's funny about being a GM? Anyone can do it.
Moreover, you don't have to tolerate antagonistic GMs. You can simply not play with them. Furthermore, you can be the change you want to see. Be the reasonable GM who is fair and sets up challenges, but also enforces consequences so that there's actual stakes.
Get out of jail free cards are a bandaid, not a cure.
>>47172430
> GM: has infinite power over the story
> Player: Is only allowed to control his character's attempted actions
By design you goddamn fucking tool. You are LITERALLY acting a role in the narrative being presented to you by the arbitrator, the only dissimilarities to a novel are resolution mechanics and that as the character, you have more control and initiative to act than a novel character. THIS IS THE POINT OF COLLABORATIVE STORYTELLING. To tell a story created by you and everyone else. The GM is given a larger share to enact by mass, sure, but his is all background. You're the Main Characters. Having no bennies doesn't change that, it must makes it harder for you to fail.
>>47175865
Actually you're right, they are. I did away with hit points a long time ago and made a much simpler combat system.
>Roll for attack
>If attack succeeds roll damage
>Damage vs saving throw depending on source
>If you fail X amount of saving throws in an encounter you die.
The best way to keep intensity is not to let players know how many "hits" they can take. Though it should have something to do with their hit dice amount.
An HD d4 caster should average about 1 or 2 but never more than 4.
An HD d12 could withstand a lot more hits like 9 to 12.
I'm sure some faggot will say damage scales too fast and by level 7+ they're dishing out DPS to kill instantly but that really only applies to wizards and peasants who can't withstand many attacks (and wizards have enough shit to shimmy-sham around that), and honestly if you're taking five or six direct attacks you probably should die.
The reason this is better than HP is it leaves more to chance and feels more like a hard battle despite how actually on average you can take more hits at lower levels. It's higher levels where every digit will count. But at higher levels no one is using fireball anyway. They're using death touch or maximized ray of -4 strength.
>>47175045
It's shit, but /tg/ loves it anyways.
>>47174587
That's because rent in Utah is a couple hundred dollars a month. In any major city on the coast the cost would be astronomical. Also if you're really worried about the cost the cheapest thing would be to just stop providing emergency room visits. One man's modus ponens is another man's modus tolens.
>>47175949
You're both dumb. Most systems without a meta currency just hide it in bullshit like experience, inflated hit points, limited use abilities, etc.
A game like RuneQuest has magic points, hit points, luck points, experience rolls, and action points. Why so many? So a large variety of characters can be used without weighing down the party. A warrior will have more hit points and action points, while a magic focused character has more magic points and luck points. A diplomacy focused character or skill focused character would get bonus experience points to diversify their abilities while not dragging down a combat encounter.
Being able to use a little plot armor is not a bad thing, neither is using a currency to move the story along. All metacurrency use is arbitrated by the GM anyways.
>>47176797
>So a large variety of characters can be used without weighing down the party.
You may want to look at game balance, rather than the issue of meta-currencies.
>>47172239
gdi anna kendrick what's wrong with your arm
>>47175844
>>47175779
> I am too lazy to type out three or four sentences about what mechanics make my favorite RPG worth playing.
>>47173381
>People on welfare are animals
>Welfare is used for domestication
That explains everything
>>47173831
not with that attitude
>>47177816
I could deal with the hands if she wasn't flatter than my dakimakura,
What ever happened to letting the dice fall?
We've had whole plot arcs spawned by someone acing or failing a roll at a bad time, and it's great.
Yes, giving players a bit of narrative control or the occasional reroll is fine, but let the dice be the final arbitrator.
>>47174668
>Fate points, action points, and bennies are merely a mechanic disconnected with the game world. If anything, they limit player agency, by saying "you can only affect the game world this much, but no further." They are worse than trash and good for nothing.
Leaving aside spending Fate Points to declare a narrative detail, the main purpose of this sort of mechanic is to give players the option of taking a bonus or reroll on actions that are important to them, at the cost of a limited resource. They're not they're to give players control over the world - they're there to let them finely tune their control over their characters' actions.
In your standard D20 RPG, you use your maximum skill bonus at all times and it only varies due to external factors. Conversely in a game like say Savage Worlds, spending a benny gives you a mechanical way of declaring "this is important to me/my character, I'm going to give it my all to make sure I succeed". This is the sort of thing that happens all the goddamn time in heroic adventure fiction, and it's a close enough approximation of how people operate in real life. The game with spendable bonus points is MORE realistic than the traditional GURPS or D&D way.
>>47172333
Getting a job is surrender.
>>47172239
But what did he mean by this?
>>47172239
How about this.
leave the storytelling to the guy whose sole job is to even make the game happen in the first place.
and the fighting and planning to the witless shitstains who can't even GM 1 game without having crippling self doubt.
Fuck you very much.
Forever GMs everywhere
>>47173900
OP is trying to conflate two different arguments into one.
They do not understand that crows are not afraid of a two-headed strawman.
>>47174504
>Has only played with shitty gms.
>>47176463
>Entire history of this board in seven words.
>>47172430
>Why is this? It's unbalanced, and unfair, and allows a shitty GM to railroad players through his own personal wankfest plot.
Immersion. I mean, it ultimately comes down to what type of game you're looking for, with no right and wrong answer, but if I'm a co-storyteller as a player, that kills my sense of immersion. Now, I don't mind having a mechanic that allows me to nudge things here and there a bit though, so some form of fate points can be okay as long as they don't give me too much meta-influence over the story.
>>47172239
Who are you quoting?
>>47179209
Even Mike fucking Mealrs of DnD5e writes in his foreword that DnD is a game of collaborative storytelling.
EVERYONE is helping tell the story as soon as someone says "hey, why don't we play a DnD game about..."
>Playing Jizzstain Files
>DM can give players fate points so they can force the player character to do something.
>>47180307
I like fate points BECAUSE they let me do things like that.
(Also let me put players in more difficult situations without them crying too much.)
It encourages strategic choices and provides a better, safer outlet for my narrativist-sadistic tendencies.
>>47178855
I still want this shirt.Accounting isn't really work right? It's not verboten for me to wear.
>>47172430
Logic fault detected. Who hurt you anon? You poor thing. Ill let you play in my game if you want. We don't use meta currency, but if you talk to me, you can guide the story too. You get to gm next week, ok?
>>47172986
More like it invites rage and tooth-gnashing when you spend one of your precious 2 fate points per session on a reroll with a 90% chance of success and you still fail.
Every session. God dammit.
>>47172239
That's retarded. Maybe I'm DMing Delta Green/Call of Cthulhu and don't want my players acting dumb? I don't allow takebacks for the same reason- you fuck up, you live with the result.
I wanted to say this is low quality bait, but with a hundred replies, evidence suggests it's pretty damn good bait.
>>47172239
Yo that the red haired bitch from pitch perfect?
9/10 who bang
>>47174188
It just sounds like you;ve never actually played a game of FATE, just heard about it.
>>47172430
>It's unbalanced, and unfair
OP complaining that the GM is unbalanced
Why don't you run your own game you ungrateful little shit
I like being able to reroll once or twice a session so that a cool moment isn't a total disappointing flop, but they're not necessary for me to enjoy a game.
I think thoughts more extreme than that are silly.
player characters can have fate points in my campaigns.
if certain enemies can have those , too.
what now , /tg/?
