>clerics always wear sturdy metal armor in D&D
When will this die?
>>47165533
>not putting your support specialist in armor
D&D clerics are not waifish clergymen, they are knights templar.
>>47165533
>When will this die?
When they stop wearing sturdy metal armor.
>>47165550
But if the cleric stops wearing armor, the cleric is more likely to die.
>>47165533
In 5e?
Only followers of specific gods get heavy armor proficiency in the newest edition, IIRC.6
When the clerics not doing this stop dying.
>>47165580
>But if the cleric stops wearing armor, the cleric is more likely to die.
>rainier_wolfcastle.jpg
If you get into a serious fight without plate armor, when you have the option of wearing it, you're a dipshit. What needs to "die" is people wearing full plate when just hanging around town and shit
>>47165583
Half plate is still study metal armor.
>>47165599
Unless you have Mage Armor or something.
>>47165533
As soon as clerics decide that they enjoy being stabbed.
My battle nun will stop using metal armor as soon as someone buys her a Bracer of Armor +7.
Do 4e, 5e, Pathfinder, or 13th Age have rules for unarmored clerics who protect themselves with faith, like sorcerers/wizards do with their magic?
>>47165666
>My battle nun
Satan pls
>>47165533
>When will this die?
Never, it's a balancing tradeoff.
Heavy armor gives high AC with no stat investment, allowing clerics to have respectable defenses while allocating their stats to other stuff, such as spell-casting.
>>47165822
Somewhere in the 5E DMG they talk about how to change classes but keep them balanced. An example is the unarmord defense cleric, who uses wisdom and Dex in place of armor like a monk. A level 1 cleric with 16 wisdom and 14 Dex will have a comfortable 15 AC. Then you give them a shield for 17. I mean it's not the best for starting AC but you can have a shield and you have your stealth checks. But that means you probably won't have your next best stat be constitution or charisma, one of those will be a measly 12/10, and you want to be able to persuade some times and also make your concentration checks.
But hey it works.
>>47165822
That image is infuriatingly funny.
>>47165533
Just before the cleric does, to be quite honest. Armor works.
>>47165533
>Greentext of something inane or pedantic I don't like because I'm a retarded contrarian
When will this die?
>>47165533
>Not wanting to keep the guy that dispenses heals alive
When will OP die?
>>47165533
Why should it? Clerics are still expected to be able to dish out some old fashioned smackdowns so it's only appropriate that they have the gear for it.
>>47165533
So you would rather the cleric be a squishy healbot like in your Japanese videogames, instead of being able to actually be a frontline fighter when need be and take a few hits?
Newsflash: no one in an TTRPG actually wants to be useless outside of certain specific situations. No bard wants to be just a songbot, no rogue wants to be only there to pick locks. If the character role could be easily filled by an NPC, don't force a player to do it!
>OP is a shitposting faggot
When will this meme die?
>>47165822
Avengers.
>>47165592
Literally who?
>>47166936
>No bard wants to be just a songbot
Well, maybe if you could make a bard that could do Ar Tonelico sorta shit.
>>47165533
Clerics will go low-to-no-armor when people finally get their heads around the fact that the Cleric and the Paladin occupy way the fuck too much conceptual space. Heavily armored warrior holy man? Heavily armored holy warrior man?
Anyhow, 4e brought us the joys of the pew-pew lazor cleric. That was maybe a step in the right direction, and vestiges of it persist in the 5e cleric.
>>47167129
I see you've never played a cleric correctly in your entire life.
>>47165533
What? Do you expect me to go DEUS VULTing in a dress?
You can't just engage in holy battle in a glorified tunic, anon. Demons and orcs will stab you because they aren't fucking retarded.
>>47167159
Enlighten me, oh wise anon. How does one correctly play a Cleric, and how is it distinct from how one correctly plays a Paladin? I've found them to be different, but only slightly so.
>>47167129
Sounds like you just want to be a faggy Final Fantasy white mage.
>>47165533
I really would rather they worse robes, the paladin is already a stupid, stupid, stupid core class.
It's nearly indistinguishable from the cleric and fighter classes, make cleric different, make paladin a subclass.
>>47165822
In 4th edition, yes, but it wasn't worthwhile because of action economy.
>>47167277
>Not liking the best/ only good class.
>>47167129
Everybody knows that their strategies and skills are different. Clerics are primarily casters first and foremost, with enough skill to hold their own in melee if need be. This is mainly because a lot of their spells rely on touch, or area of effect spells with them at the center. They can't really sit at the back of the party and do everything they need to do from a distance.
Paladins, in contrast, have relatively few spells, with only a few being useful for supporting other players, such as Lay on Hands. Most of their spells are saved for making their weapons and armor better or allow them to do more damage, which is part of their primary role - hit evil shit, and hit it hard. This and their resistance to things like diseases or fear essentially makes them a super-fighter made to hit more than to tank.
>>47167246
It's simple. You open up the PHB, read the entries for both classes and then realize that paladins have not been tied to gods for decades. If this isn't enough to make you see the difference, then play a cleric who, for once in your fucking life, is neither Lawful nor Good.
>>47165852
>get great AC without investing anything in it
What part of this is the trade-off then?
>>47167406
Weight, minimum STR requirements, stealth penalties, money.
>>47167406
You know how some classes can wear great armor, but still get away with putting a lot of points in dexterity because they don't really need several of the other stats? Even though dexterity was probably meant to only be a way for rogues and rangers and monks to not be squishy because they wear lighter armor?
The trade-off for clerics is that they can't really invest in dexterity to make themselves super hard to hit, because they have to put points into Wisdom and Intelligence to be a good spellcaster, alongside Strength to keep themselves hitty.
>>47167274
Kind of, sure. Back in the old days it was clear that Clerics needed a better attack progression and armor options than the Magic-User because, frankly, their spells sucked in comparison. Of course, they also sucked in melee compared to Fighters. So you could be better than Fighters at making magic happen, and better than Wizards at beating face, and had pretty good hit points. So yeah, you got good armor. Nowadays the Cleric spell list is actually quite good and there's another class that fills the "holy beatstick" role much better. So I'm cool with having unarmored Clerics.
>>47167331
>everybody knows
That's a shitty line of argument. I recommend you remove it from your rhetorical toolkit. Yes, Paladins are somewhat more beatstick than Clerics are, and Clerics have more spell slots than Paladins do. Their spell lists have a lot of thematic overlap and actual overlap, and both of them frequently best serve their party by getting up in the shit, beating face, and occasionally casting a spell. Even with full-caster spell slots, somebody casting non-cantrip spells every round runs low real fast. When having spell slot availables to stabilize dying comrades is your responsibility, you see a lot of fairly conservative spellcasting behavior from Cleric players, as contrasted with a Wizard blowing his wad because fuck it, why not?
>>47167331
>edgelord wants godless paladin because mommy doesn't understand him
Whatever. I give zero shits if the PHB ties paladins to the gods. That's a per-setting decision, not a matter of game mechanics.
>>47167464
Technically, paladins also aren't tied to gods in 3.5e or 5e, and I'm not sure if they are in 2e. It's only in 4e that they are definitively tied to gods, and that that affects game mechanics, making them more of a warrior of a god tied to their will.
>>47167485
>I'm not sure if they are in 2e.
Paladins are required to swear fealty to either a religion or a philosophy in 2e. It's where they get their powers from.
>>47167580
Well, philosophy...it's got its own rules, but you can easily argue they're not tied to a god. So if a paladin in 3.5e can fight for general goodness, and a paladin in 5e can fight for the sake of an oath, you could argue a philosophy is the same as those, if somewhat stricter.
>>47167701
For philosophies to be legit sources of power for paladins, they need to:
Present a logical and self-consistent interpretation of the universe
Demand LG behaviour of followers
Be broad enough to for the basis of the paladin's ethos.
Nothing god-related at all.
>>47165533
when you play something other than 3.5 or at least break out Unearthed Arcana and play a cloistered cleric!
>>47165533
>play anima
>invest all of my DPs in perform(Oration), wear armor and light magic
>All of my CPs into mana regen and elan
>praise it 24/7 so hard gods give me powers while I cast spells and stomp around in 10 TA vs all thanks to my ultra heavy plate and spells
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW WEEABOOS?!
1)Make Cleric a paladin subclass.
2) Add Priest as a new class. They get the divine version of "mage" armor, and usually only wear holy robes and shit.
>>47167812
>Demand LG behaviour of followers
Not accurate: Paladining isn't tied to alignment anymore.
>>47165533
ever tried to cast Cure Wounds on a wigged out barbar?
fuck you play a wizard
>>47166024
Wait a sec.
>half-plate + 14 Dex + shield = AC 19
>unarmored cleric + 20 Wis + 14 Dex = AC 17
Is WotC trying to cheat me here?
>>47172012
He's talking about the requirements for a 2e paladin.
>>47175552
Oh, so he is, my mistake
>>47167191
>What? Do you expect me to go DEUS VULTing in a dress?
It's nae a dress, ye wee nancy English boy, it's a KILT! 'Cus anyone whoo calls et a dress gets KILT!
>>47165533
It'll probably only die if it becomes disadvantageous for the D&D cleric, since that's what basically controls shit.
>>47171963
>2) Add Priest as a new class.
Why don't you just play a wizard?
>>47171963
Or just play the cloistered cleric class variant and use Monk's belt and/or bracers of armour. You can even afford to pump your Wisdom even higher and dump Charisma if you take two levels in Paladin for the Serenity feat.
>>47165533
> The knights templar leave their secure temple and go out into a world full of danger fully armoured
> The Holy Warriors wear their armour all the time because that's standard practice for armour
> You are upset by this
> We laugh
Play a waifish church clerk if you really want to, just don't get upset when others arm themselves for conflict.
>>47178032
>the wizards go out in robes and Mage Armor
Why is this allowed?
>>47166984
Pic related. Now with this exact image in mind reread the post chain.
