So I was listening to a podcast and there was an interview with this Writer who explained how they got their inspiration. They actually talked to it and had a relationship with it. Sounds to me like a spirit of creativity.

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Daily reminder that 1e nWoD is better than CofD unless you like stupid pseudo-metaplot. And if you want a metaplot, why aren't you going the full nine yards and playing Revised oWoD?

The one thing Requiem 2e did right (removing emotional deadness) can easily be backported into 1e if you're a competent ST and CofD is proof that if something isn't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'

>>47148170
>waah waah Mages aren't broken enough anymore waah

>>47148136
Ur-Shulgi did 9/11.
Discuss.

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>>47148170
Addendum to this post....

In addition to pseudo-metaplot, CofD 2e has Beast: The Primordial and SJW bullshit. So why are we defending this garbage?

1e was already good and it was toolkit so if you didn't like something, you could just homebrew it away.

You can keep your God-Machine, Idigams, Beasts, psychic vampire changelings, and Strix (yes, I know Strix were technically introduced in 1e, but they weren't in until very late in 1e's development cycle and didn't become the main antagonists until 2e)

I'll just stick to my games of criminal intrigue and any stuck-up pretentious snobs who don't like it can fuck off.

>>47148181
I don't play Mage, I stick to Vampire and Changeling mostly. I might give Mage 1e a look though.

>>47148208
>CofD 2e has Beast: The Primordial
I outright ignore it's existence and will never EVER feature them in my games.

>>47148223
Funny, I do the same thing. Not only to Beast, but also Demon: The Descent, the Strix, the Akhud, and well, pretty much all of 2e.

>>47148208
Outlaws forever

>>47148227
Well, I don't find Demon interesting (being basically a Matrix rip-off), so I don't feature them as well. I don't play Vampires, but I kinda like Strix as antags (but I would make them 'just the spirits'). I don't know who Akhud are (is you aren't talking about this small vampire group).

>>47148170
>And if you want a metaplot, why aren't you going the full nine yards and playing Revised oWoD?
Bar the fact oWoD metaplot is garbage not merely in its nature as metaplot but also in its content?

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So, I'll be honest.

I know that it's unpopular to prefer 1e CofD over 2e, but there is a point to the madness. Onyx Path has been corrupted with pseudo-metaplot garbage and general SJW douchebaggery and it really shows.

But because you guys blindly suck Onyx Path's dick and will go full contrarian to anyone who says otherwise all because of a stupid recurring troll who likes to emulate other posters and then amp up their idiocy.

Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. And in the meantime, I will crack open a can of OPB (Other People's Beer) and watch you guys do mental backflips to justify liking the shitty product that is CofD 2e.

>>47148288
Please stop talking, we got your point in your first post.

>>47148170
I've never understood what retards like this mean by 'pseudo-metaplot'. Either there is a metaplot, or there isn't. Make up your mind with your bait complaints.

>>47148243
And at this point, I've stopped caring if you confuse me for some troll/shitposter.

All I know is that I'm not some sheep who sucks Onyx Path's dick and thinks they can do no wrong despite all evidence to the contrary.

>>47148302
The whole bullshit with the God-Machine, the Strix, the Idigam, etc.

It's written like a metaplot but in a way that feels as if the writers are too chickenshit to actually implement a full metaplot so they try to deny it's an actual metaplot, so these concepts are stuck in some limbo between the open-ended toolbox approach of 1e nWoD and the heavy-handed One True Way mentality of Revised oWoD.

>>47148320
So you're against... antagonists? Because the word you are looking for is antagonists, you know, bad guys, that do bad things, and require characters to act against them. Anon, that isn't what a metaplot is.

If you think it is a metaplot because they gave those guys backstories, that is also not what a metaplot is. That is... well that is a backstory, you might even call it fluff. The backstory for the idigam is the same as the backstory for Father Wolf, vague, probably not exact, and mutable. Same with the Strix.

I won't put the God-Machine in that camp because it is even vaguer than usual, and can literally be made to have come from or have done whatever you want.

I honestly don't think you know what a metaplot is at this point. I'm not even sure you remember 1E if you think 2E is different in anyway.

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Hate on me all you want, but I actually have fun with my nWoD games instead of angsting all day like a whiny emo bitch and arguing over minor bullshit in Mage 2e.

In fact, this evening a few of my bros are going to play in my Grand Theft Auto San Andreas Vampire: The Requiem/Changeling: The Lost crossover chronicle. First session of a new campaign. Wish me luck!

I get it, you guys like blindly following metaplot (or pseudo-metaplot), bowing down to Onyx Path like mindless sheep, and cutting your wrists while listening to Sisters of Mercy and My Chemical Romance.

I'll just laugh at your smugness because I like playing RPG's and I like drinking beer.

Anime, Beer, and RPG's. That's what it's all about.

>>47148330
I already have decent antagonists for my Requiem games. They're called Belial's Brood.

Not to mention hunters, law enforcement, and rival covenants.

I've got plenty of antagonists. No need for the Strix.

So, Major Tom, aside from the fact he's Mastigos, do we have any idea for his Order and are their any Mastigos Legacies that grant Forces as an additional Arcanum?

>>47148355
>Hates SJW stuff
>Post pictures from his gay fanfic

>>47148361
Then... don't use the strix?

Did you think they were required?

>>47148367
It's Kingdom Hearts yaoi, so you're about half right.

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>>47148367
You know, someone can be queer and not be an insufferable SJW. Bisexual male here. You would not know it because I don't make a big deal of it and wave it around like SJW's do.

Anyway, I hope my Requiem/Lost game goes well.

The doctor put me on a light diet. Menthol Lights and Miller Lite!

So, I got the dice, the character sheets, the story planned out, and of course, the beer (Miller Lite, Bud Lite, and Redd's Apple Ale)

So, I may have time to argue with you guys in the morning, but I'll be gone all afternoon and evening. Unlike you guys, I actually game from time to time.

>>47148376
The fact that they get a whole fucking chapter in Requiem 2e while Belial's Brood isn't even mentioned once can lead one to believe such things.

And even if they are optional, I prefer Virtues and Vices over Masks and Dirges, and I like 1e Disciplines over 2e Disciplines.

>>47148402
If this is you not being an insufferable sjw, no wonder people like SJWs here.

>>47148407
Your tastes are okay.

>>47148409
Dude, don't feed it.

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So, my game will start in Los Santos but could theoretically encompass the entire state of San Andreas. So far we have Ordo Dracul, Circle of the Crone, and Spring Court players. Looking good so far.

Here's the theme song for my campaign....

Ice Cube-"It Was a Good Day"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPlF-IEkXQ

And since you guys want some more Kingdom Hearts yaoi, why not?

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Anybody ever watch The Shield? Excellent show and great inspiration for Requiem and Vigil games.

Vic Mackey is a badass.

Russian orthodox catholic church forever

>>47148170
>>47148208
>>47148288
>>47148320
>>47148355
>>47148402
>>47148439
>>47148461
>Being this wrong
Go away, Carmilla. Why do you even keep posting in the first place? Didn't you say you had to go actually RP?

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This may sound cliché, but I'm tired of arguing with you. So I'm just going to browse more Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy yaoi and drink lots of beer. I got a bottle of Heineken on my computer desk and a half-drank sixpack of Miller Lite in the fridge.

I've got better things to do than listen to a bunch of stuck-up pretentious losers who get butthurt over how other people play their pretend vampire games.

Go deep throat Martin Ericsson if you must. I'm bored of this shit. Unlike you guys, I've got an actual game to work on.

And as a parting gift, here's some more KH yaoi!

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>>47148477
>Russian Orthodox
>Catholic

Pick one, dumbass

You fail theology forever, you brain dead goth.

Go fawn over pic related. The only thing he did right was Requiem 1e (and he even dropped the ball on that one with the emotional deadness garbage)

>>47148498

That's not anime gangsta enough

>>47148502
But it is accurate

>>47148502
For fucksake, stop replying to the fuckwit.
It only makes him talk more.

>>47148504
Yes, what he said. I'm so sick of this bullshit. I just wanna drink my beer, watch my cute bishie anime boys go at it, and then run my game later today.

So fuck off.

>>47148504
I think instead we ought to talk more about the interactions between Mages and the God-Machine.

All the new books for the main splats make sure to keep everything removed from GM talk, which makes it hard to know exactly how any of them would fight it, or even realize it is there. But the others, Vampires, Werewolves, probably would barely care unless it attacked them head on.

Mages, on the other hands, can't abide a mystery. What greater mystery maker is there than the God-Machine.

So what the hell is an Awakened to do to root out and rage against the machine?

How is temporal sympathy supposed to work? I see people keep on talking about how you can use Time to change the past, so what is stopping you from killing Hitler?

>>47148547
Fuck you. Go read it yourself.

>>47148521
I believe the G-M to be the Exarch of the Fallen World, who was crippled by the other Exarchs when they ascended to the Supernal and encased him in the Abyss. He is the reason that the tributaries of the Arcanum exist in the first place.

>>47148521
The problem with the G-M is that there is no rhyme or method to it, it's parts operate in ways that don't make sense and don't follow the kind of orderly patterns that Mages like. Plus even a strong Cabal is going to have trouble with Rank 3 and 4 Angel hitsquads coming after them because they're trying to poke around in C&C Infrastructure.

Asking this again, because the idea sounds interesting and I'll tell myself that I might try it, then never do that.
>Would Twilight be better as a video game?
https://youtu.be/TKL3nzJxp0U
How would you make a WoD dating sim?

Also, I'm such a fuck up. I'm making a sample character just to walk myself through character creation so I'm making a character who's Shadowname is Ryona and she's a Mage who *really* enjoys getting the shit beat out of her, because everyone was talking about the Whipping Boys last thread. But (in 1e at least) they're Obrimos only and have Life Ruling but all their Attainments have Mind secondary, and that means splitting between a lot of shit. She'd need to start out more or less ignoring Prime and Forces. I'm tempted to just say fuck it and make her a kinky Perfected Adept, because Goddamn, that is going to lead to a thinly stretched Arcana spread for this character that I don't actually intend to play in the first place, so why do I care how mechanically competent they are.

>>47148559
I don't know, the G-M doesn't necessarily care about mage stuff, like the abyss, or abyssal anything really. It gets mixed into so much other stuff, it seems hard to believe it wouldn't be working harder toward ascension.

>>47148572
>How would you make a WoD dating sim?
Isn't that essentially what the Mods became? Every nWoD chatsite I've ever played on was basically 80/20 fucking-to-plot ratio. The best one was the game where the major antagonist was an unihar created by werewolf two PCs fucking.

>>47148571
I dunno about a hitsquad. There are rules for what sort of threat response the G-M has, but generally it is up to the ST. I mean, if the G-M doesn't know what it is dealing with, it isn't going to go straight to red alert, it may not start with angels at all. It likes to use other infrastructure that is around, even if that means a Slasher Compact in the area that it can use to try to rough up the mages so they never come back.

Also, I don't know if the lack of immediate coherence to the G-M's plots would make Mages LESS interested. If anything it would make me more curious until I got the feeling there was nothing to find. By then I probably would have an angel dick up my ass.

>>47148577
I think His plan is less "Ascension", and more "Smash the Fallen World into the Supernal Realms", god only knows what the end result of that would be.

The looks on the Exarchs faces when he actually pulls this off should be priceless.

>>47148572
Wait, WoD isn't a dating sim?

I've been STing all wrong...

>>47148547
>so what is stopping you from killing Hitler?

Future Mages killing you to stop you killing Hitler.

>>47148583
>WoD moderated chats
So what you're saying is your WoD dating sim would involve a clique murdering the fuck out of you because they're shitheads who feel insulted on a deep and personal level that other people might have fun without the permission?
>>47148608
Some of my favourite games might as well have been.

>>47148598
The G-M knows what Mages are, I mean how could it not? I'd assume it'd rank their threat level up there with your standard Unchained Ring and so I figure the same sort of hunter-killer Angel squads it sends after them would apply. After all, C&C Infrastructure is probably what a Mage who's been on this Mystery for awhile would be looking for (the brains) and that's what all G-M books describe as the hardest to find and most well-defended.

>>47148521
I don't think the Awakened can do more than poke and prod. The GM would be considered a Rank 7+ entity if it was not a decentralized physical network. If a Mage causes enough trouble, something will come along to take him out. If a Cabal is causing trouble, you are going to get hunter-killer angels. If a Consilium tried to pick a fight with the GM, it might just back down if it didn't consider the city important, but you might get a whole squad of hunter-killer angels or possibly even a Rank 6 angel if you pushed your luck too far.

So how would they deal with the GM? Very carefully.

>>47148611
>>47148608
>>47148614
>you will never run a dating sim Chronicle centered around attractive young mages screwing each other and trying to kill incongruously attractive young Hitler

Why even tell stories?

>>47148614
>So what you're saying is your WoD dating sim would involve a clique murdering the fuck out of you because they're shitheads who feel insulted on a deep and personal level that other people might have fun without the permission?
Yeah, I do. Because they knew the risks and had to deal with the consequences, welcome to the World of Darkness, not the world of blissful carefree love with superpowers.

>>47148611
At what point do the Acanthi who have become sentient timelines come into this?

>>47148621
I don't think the G-M would consider any other creep on the same threat level as an Unchained ring.

You have to think of it not based on power level (which would wildly differ among mages. Plus, not all mages have the equipment to even pose a real threat to the G-M. PLUS, we know the G-M can't properly mess with the power of other creep types, so it doesn't have a perfect understanding.)

The Unchained are a higher priority because the G-M knows where they come from, from it. They are traitor agents, they inherently have intel on the G-M that mages may NEVER figure out. Plus they are carrying around G-M tech that could be terrible if it were to get out. The Unchained are always priority number one. Mages are a nuisance at best.

What's the best way to cope with the fact that Players haven't planned to be able to coordinate amongst themselves in the event of a serious emergency? Just handwave something?

>>47148635
I hate WoD MUSH style games because there's always one or more groups that coordinate OOC to fuck shit up for everyone else just to be assholes. Usually it's the people playing ostensibly good and pure characters, while the people playing evil babyrapists will try to make sure you're comfortable OOC with them beating you up.

In Character Action=In Character Consequences only when it's used as justification for their character being shittily played, and when it's time for them to pay the piper and suffer in character consequences for their in character actions... whoops, delete the character and get a friend on the mod team to just sanction your new one right away (if that friend on the mod team isn't just you yourself).

I'm fuckin' salty alright

>>47148660
The Principle is neither benevolent not fair-minded, it gives life and tests that which lives only.

If death is their destiny then so be it.

>>47148660
You can lean on a mechanic that isn't necessarily in WoD, and let them roll to ass-pull previous planning out. Keep it only to this situation (aka, don't pretend it is a mechanic, because it barely is), but proper success would imply that, since they know each other and work together, of course they have some stuff put together.

Let them talk in a sort of pseudo-flashback about what they had.

>>47148572

Oh great, first people are shitposting Kingdom Hearts yaoi and now we're discussing Ryona? Fuck me.

(Then again, I may run a tongue-in-cheek Ryona game just to fuck with people. Fuck this thread and all who post within it, including myself.)

tl;dr CofD General and everyone who posts in it can go fornicate themselves with an iron stick

>>47148644
This is too funny for some reason

>>47148677
I doubt any of this even happened and you're not just injecting your paranoid fantasies into being shut down for trying to do something stupid. If it did, name names and we'll see if it checks out.

>>47148625
That would be a fun campaign ending.

A whole city gets wiped off the planet because the Consilium tried to take on the G-M.

The survivors witness the terrible infrastructures that hide the event happening, and the G-M putting the city back into place as if it was never nuked, minus all the mages of course.

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>>47148653
Retroactively.

>>47148703
This

>>47148714
Unplayable, and I tried real hard.

>>47148689
Is there such a thing as male ryona? I might post some WoD Ryona of Riku getting offed by the Strix and/or a gang of goth and punk SJW's led by Justin Achilli and Martin Ericsson just to piss off Carmilla. To add insult, I will use concepts from CofD 2e to waste his precious KH husbando.

>>47148779
Just forget it, the less we talk about him, the less likely he is to return to the thread.

>>47148689
>I may run a tongue-in-cheek Ryona game just to fuck with people
... what the hell would that even mean?
It's just a good Shadowname for a Whipping Girl (or just an Arrow). Also, you're posting in the CofD General.

>>47148725
>>47148703
That's a thing that repeatedly happens across most moderated chats. Are you seriously doubting "people in MUSHes are cliquish dicks who often end up running the games"?

>>47148779
Gyaku-Ryona. Also, like nothing you said made sense.

>>47148843
Sorry, I have had a lot to drink and these shitposters are pissing me off.

/tg/ has made me lose faith in humanity

>>47148843
If it keeps happening to you Aspel, maybe there comes a point where you look around and ask 'Am I the problem?' Because in your case the answer is undoubtedly 'yes'.

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>>47148860
You act like it only happens to me...
Have you seriously never played on a MUSH? I've had friends tell me to join MUSHes because cliques are ruining their fun and they want someone to play with that isn't involved in that shit.

>>47148855
Don't become that which you hate.

But seriously, how do I handle a character concept based around such spread out Arcana? Then again, I guess you aren't intended to be part of a Legacy right at character creation.
Also, when do you think Dave will give us more formalized Legacy creation rules?

>>47148753
Really? I mean I've heard that, but what were the problems? I've played it and it worked fine for me.

Did Consilium anon ever make that spreadsheet for the characters people were offering?

>>47148898
>Also, when do you think Dave will give us more formalized Legacy creation rules?
Never formalized. He might throw something up on a forum somewhere but there's no reason to take up wordcount in an actual book with something no one wants. They just want their favorite old Legacies updated, not even any new ones.

>>47148923
Are formalized rules even necessary for something like this? Aren't they all made up of the same components?

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>>47148686
That seems like the kindest approach.

>>47148682
I'm only going to be a Substitute Storyteller, so I'd a little reluctant to just gung ho massacre the Players' characters.

THICK

VAMPIRE

COCK

>>47148964
Wouldn't vampires have blood ejaculate?

...No thanks.

>>47148937
A lot of gamers feel like something is verboten to try unless the publisher specifically gives them rules to do it by.

>>47148966
You wouldn't be saying that after you'd tasted it. Wasn't there an example in one of the books about a ghoul who got her 'feeding' by blowing her domitor?

>>47148980
I have no response to this.

>>47149007
Welcome to the Chronicles of Darkness!

>>47149017
Not to the blowjobs. That is all well and good. I just can't refute that I wouldn't like vampire blood cum.

>>47148923
By "formalized" I meant a blog post.

>>47148970
>>47148937
I just want a guideline for how to make Attainments that use Reach and all that.

>>47148966
Only in oWoD.

>>47148980
Are you sure you didn't read my ERP logs?

Basically how would I make this in Mage 2e?
>1st Attainment: Pain Is Strength
>Pre-Requisites: Gnosis 3, Life 2 (primary), Mind 1, Brawl 1
>Ecstatic was a proponent of channeling anger, pain and aggression back on opponents, having been on the receiving end of gay-bashing for much of his life. This Attainment allows a mage to take physical punishment and convert it to a quick shot of adrenaline. Whenever the mage takes damage, the player can spend a point of Mana and add a number of dice equal to the points of damage from the attack to the mage's next Physical action. This action can include combat (hand-to-hand or ranged, though Ecstatic prefers close combat), but could also be used to flee from the fight if things aren't going well. It can even be used for spellcasting if the mage is using a rote that relies on a Physical Attribute (such as Self-Healing).
From the way Dave talked about Attainments during our years long spoiler season, he implied that Attainments that use Reach and have limitations or triggers are determined as being different levels of Attainment than just their basic spell.

>>47149025
It was in one of the Daeva sections, I think. I know it was in a VtR book.

>>47149025
I'm sure nWoD was pretty specific about all vampire bodily fluids being replaced with blood.

>>47149056
I'm like 90% sure that was oWoD.

>>47149067
Considering I've never read an oWoD book in my life, I don't see how that could be the case.

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You know, Bruce from Finding Nemo could be a very good Ozzie Gangrel with a shark gimmick and Obfuscate. He tries not to snap and drain anyone, but you know how things went in the movie.
>"Ooooooh, that's good."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWRIR39N8WA

>>47149082
Neither have I, but I've been told that several times by different oWoD people. I think it's come up in the thread, even

>>47149147
>Gangrel with a shark gimmick

A sea gangrel you mean? Even though they are more like the creature from the black lagoon.

>>47149169
>A sea gangrel you mean?
Yes.

>>47149169
He uses sharks and shark accessories, namely Protean to give himself bits of shark anatomy, Obfuscate to create a realistic shark illusion in the water around him while he's swimming and Animalism to summon sharks when he's underwater. Also Ghoul Sharks.

Okay so I have 1 mage in my group.
Group is:
1 Beast
2 Forsaken
1 Mage
0 Common Sense

So our mage is trying to be subtle about his spell casting because he doesn't want others to know what he is now. And so far He's managed to paradox a bit, but I couldn't find anything in the book on Abyssal Environmental Tilts so I made one up for the first time it happened and since the Abyss is the no magic here zone I made the inside of the car a big anti-magic zone (-2 dice to casting attempts inside the car)

Second time he did so...Let's just say He done broke the No magic where Muggles can see rule and basically generated a paradox pool of 7...Now it was getting late and I was tired but I'm pretty sure what an exceptional success on the Paradox rule should be some Dark Heresy Perils of the warp level shit happening right?

>>47149305
p116, exceptional success nets you your normal paradox plus a paradox Condition. The example ones are

>fuck up your nimbus so abyssal entities can Fetter/Possess/Claim you

>fuck up your imagos so you have to waste reach on the abyss not eating your spells

>fuck up your everything as your paradox pools get cumulatively bigger

>>47149336
Ahh So Formless spawn showing up causing the Werewolves and beast to go Nope and ditch the mage for a fade to black were he was implanted with it's egg was a good choice then. Good to know.

Hey cool, looking at it Masters of Spirit with a Familiar have access to an infinite supply of !ana. You see there's the spell to create Essence ex nihlo, from there you use the familiar bond to transfer Essence to you as Mana, you lose a tiny amount in the transfer but there's nothing to keep you from just spamming it. Man, I find this stupid, two massive sources of mana and neither of them is in Prime for some daft reason. Prime only gets something that requires five days of duration to even pay back for itself, is implied to play hob with surrounding sacred geometry, and needs reach beyond grasp to accomplish much of interest with it.

>>47149508
Spirit is broken as fuck because the spirit rules aren't meant for PC use. Spirit 3 can give your familiar any numen regardless of it's influences, and there are some broke-ass numina out there

>>47148939
Godspeed, Confederate flag man!

>>47148521
>>47148621
>>47148625
>more about the interactions between Mages and the God-Machine.

If you want to know how mages or any other splat except Beasts may interact with both the God Machine and Demons, check-out the Demon Storyteller's Guide. It has the best crossover section of any nWOD/CofD supplement.

>>47149204
Well, then you will be hated by fans of oWoD. Sea gangrels carry a lot of hate, even thought the book it comes from is not that bad.

>>47149775
Does it? I had no idea. Thanks anon.

>>47149789
I was thinking Bruce would be CofD Gangrel.

>>47149398
No, that sounds like shitty STing to punish a player for playing something you don't want them to play.

>>47148547
To put it simply, Temporal Sympathy let's you target a person or object in the Present (which in Mage is an objective reference point, not subjective to the individual) and yet affect said person or target at some point within its past with your spell.

You can't kill Hitler because Hitler is already dead. The metaphor the book uses to explain Time is to think of it like a Spinning Wheel - The Present is the point at which the threads are being woven together, the Past is the already-woven cloth, and the Future is the threads that are yet to be pulled together. You can affect the past by going back and messing with the already-woven threads, but you have to START from the point at which they're coming together - the Present. If an object no longer exists in the present (like Hitler) you can't target it - you can't find the start of the thread you have to follow backwards to make the change.

>>47149789
>you will never diablerize a cute Sea Gangrel

Why even live?

>>47148257
See, I completely disagree. And this is why I like CoD.
We would just shit up each others' game if we were to try and play in the same system. With WoD and CoD, we both get what we want.

Looking at Demon storytellers guide, what really stops creep societies from tattling on each other?

Demons in particular. I know that it wouldn't hold for long, and would just get them into more trouble in the longterm. But wouldn't proofs that willworkers are real, or evidence of a particular mage's magic, be excellent blackmail? Especially if that would make that mage's life difficult, or fray a lot of his spellwork?

I mean, it only works so well back on the Demon, since they could shed the cover that the mage tries to expose.

>>47150136
>grassing up Mages

Well they in particular have a built in defence because the Lie means sleepers forget about their magic as soon as they're able.

But aside from that, you now have a shitload of other Mages who want you dead to stop you and your group from doing the same shit to them

>>47148208
>1e was already good and it was toolkit so if you didn't like something, you could just homebrew it away.

1e had a few issues I disliked:
Defence is useless
Ramping xp-costs
Heavier weapons = more accurate weapons
D&D-style Armor Class

All these are fixed by 2e-
Also, what do you mean with this:
>>47148170
>pseudo-metaplot

The closest thing to metaplot I've found is the stories going along the entire Mage 1e line, telling the stories of Khonsu and The Nemean.

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>>47150034

>>47150170
Except the lie doesn't always work, there are sleepwalkers among the sleepers. Plus, even having people investigating if it is true is enough to ruin a Mage. You don't want people constantly investigating everything you do.

Besides, with Demon powers, it isn't like the sleeper needs to see something for them to be absolutely convinced that what the Demon said is true.

>>47148208
Beast is a halfway decent toolkit that probably should have just been a supplement book for Core.

SJW Bullshit, I will not fight you on it.

>>47150205
That doesn't solve the angry retaliatory Mages problem

>>47150205
Except all this drama caused by mages being found out would Without a doubt attract the attention if the God-Machine. And thats a no go.

>>47150234
Attract the attention of the God-Machine, on them. If anything, the distraction would be an excellent time to perform an important operation on an infrastructure. The G-M will be too busy dispatching infrastructure to deal with the mage situation.

>>47150220
Shed the cover. Never see those mages again.

>>47150136
>>47150170
Same reason we never bombed Russia.

>>47150255
>Shed the cover. Never see those mages again.

Nigga that's a funny ass joke

>>47150267
That doesn't quite hold true though.

This would be like if one American with a bomb attacked a Russian capital city.

While they could try, Russia wouldn't be able to blame America for the attack. They could be pissy at Americans in general, but if Russia replied against America, Russia would be the aggressor at fault.

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>>47148181
Meh, no opinion on that. Magic users are BS anywhere

>>47148223
Not even as antagonists?

>>47148288
I think we get it man. It's cool. We all have our opinons. I don't agree with yours but that's cool. You're cool man. (Legit not being sarcastic, being sincere)

>>47148330
>>47148320
Antagonists do not a metaplot make.

>>47148355
Please tell us how it goes~
Sounds awesome.

>>47148367
Hey. If he's in to that, he's into that. Besides at least its good art and not crappy art.

>>47148439
Not the remix with KK Slider?

>>47150282
I mean that no one is going to try to expose the other supers because that means they get exposed as well. Mages are probably going to want to protect the Masquerade, and vampires are going to want to keep the Veil.

If humanity starts looking for monsters in it's midst... it's gonna find them. If you're any kind of monster, that should worry you.

>>47150336
Yeah, it should worry other monsters. But who does it worry least of all?

The perfect liars who are already deep in hiding as everyday people.

Between spoofing, being perfect liars, and the power of cover, Demons were made for the MAD scenario. All the illusions and lies drop, and Demons are still in hiding as they have been.

What would draw them out? What would give them away? It is the whole point of their powerset that they are better at hiding among humans than any other creep type.

>>47150336
the idea that supers have anything to fear from normies, even in bulk, has always been a meme.

>>47150371
If Demons were found out by humanity at large, the God-Machine would definitely be able to find them better. It would be McCarthyism all over again.
Isn't that a scenario in the Demon STG, actually?

>>47150383
Not really. if a city has 200 vampires at most and a couple thousand humans, what are they gonna do? You can't Dominate an entire city.

>>47148136
>shitty old pastebin without the mage 2e links in it
http://pastebin.com/PPptBB5u
>>47148252
You clearly haven't actually read Demon, or the section on Strix.

This post was longer with me bitching at Carmilla to just go the fuck away and stop stirring the shit pot, but then I realized he did, so whatever

>>47150423
>You can't dominate an entire city
Not with that attitude.

>>47150423
See, the problem with that idea is that the God-Machine already KNOWS there are demons everywhere, it created them after all. It doesn't forget they exist, it just can't locate them specifically.

So letting the G-M know there are a ton of Demons, even telling it that there are a ton of Demons in a particular town, state, country, isn't really new information.

Only one of those would really bring about new action, the first. If the G-M thought a particularly small town area was Demon infested enough to make up for the trouble destroying the city would cause, it might go for it. But it isn't going to say, blow up New York, even if there were a ton of Demons there (which there probably are, and which the G-M probably knows).

>>47150205
An easy out for this problem is have a iron master use the Vail Rite to destroy all the evidence.
Then the lie kicks in and most of the people ignore it, putting a few more hunter in the world.

>>47150486
I meant that the ability to better use human infrastructure--lower case i--to more overtly deal with Demons would be a major boon to the God-Machine. It wouldn't need to use Stigmatics or Hunter Angels, it could subvert and guide human beings who already know there are Demons.

If Demon society as a whole has it's Cover blown, within a year you'd have scientists with a Demon Detecting Device, courtesy of the God-Machine, without even realizing that's who their patrons are.

Is there any way to recover the soul of my waifu if I accidentally diablerize her?

>>47150592
>accidentally diablerize

Explain

>>47150565
Wouldn't a demon detective device (Triple D for short) always fail?

>>47150426
>You clearly haven't actually read Demon
I read it and still think it's Matrix rip-off.

>or the section on Strix
What makes you think so?

>>47150599
Like in a Frenzy, or if forced to do so by some cruel Elder with Dominate or some such?

>>47150592
One Does not simplify "accidentally diablerize", It a choice.

>>47150600
Nah. There are ways to detect Demons. That's one of the reasons they need Cover.

By using mortals, they could probably get something created that detects Aetheric resonance or something like that, or even rip out the eyes of a Fractal.

>>47150654
No, they need cover because they are pretending to be people they aren't, and their lives are not perfectly human. So a weak cover can be shredded when people realize you grew up in Wisconsin but can't remember a single city from Wisconsin, or when they see you only own one outfit like a cartoon character.

Spoofing means any means of detecting a Demon is a Demon, will fail.

But you are right, they could find other information that would lead to suspicion that would shred the cover. I'm just saying that a device that goes 'beep boop, that is a Demon', seemingly wouldn't work. He will read Human.

>>47150654
Mekhet Bloodline of Embraced Fractals when? They have a Unique Discipline based on Exploits with the final part of the tree being actually making use of them.

>>47150604
The Strix aren't spirits. They aren't ephemeral AT ALL. They're pure sentient shadows that require blood to live, like the Kindred.

And Demon, well, it takes hints from Matrix, but it doesn't have the whole 'reality is all just an illusion made by a machine' thing, which is a big factor of Matrix; it's just a combination of Matrix, Person of Interest, and general espionage shit.

>>47150755
>The Strix aren't spirits.
I didn't said they were spirits; I said I would make them just the spirits.

>>47150690
Spoofing means any direct means of detecting a Demon will fail. Black holes also don't show up with detection. So you look for the distortions in space.
Also, Fractals literally see through Cover.

>>47150755
Vitae, not blood. Minor distinction.

How would you justify a Mad Scelestus?

>>47150839
>Spoofing means any direct means of detecting a Demon will fail. Black holes also don't show up with detection. So you look for the distortions in space.
That not how spoofing works. Any ability that can imply that the demon is not human will register the demon as human. They give an example of a demon being excluded from a effect that targets only human.
>Also, Fractals literally see through Cover.
They can only see through their parents cover. No other demon is subject to this.

>>47150870
Are they not all Mad?

>>47150884
If you go by Chapter Fiction, that's wrong. The opening story of Heirs to Hell has a Fractal being able to see through the Covers of a group of 3-4 Demons.

>>47150884
That's because it's an effect that would directly say they aren't human. If on the other hand you could detect Aether (which is one way Demons detect each other), you could figure out someone is a Demon that way. Or a machine that somehow scrutinizes the reality around someone (which is essentially what Hunter Angels would be doing anyway, and how those Compromise conditions work).

And Fractals see through all Cover. That's why they're so scary. You even see an example of it in one of the fictions.

>>47150870
>>47150893
Scelesti are lower case m mad. But a Mad Scelesti is just someone super obsessed with the Abyss.
Most of them *are* going to be upper case M Mad by nature.

>>47150914
I don't know. I don't think spoofing is that general. It says anything that would distinguish them, so if you caught a Demon solo and were going to pick up aether that would show them as non-human, it would read in a way that would show human. I think this might have to come down to ST ruling.

Demons pick up other demons because they are built to, no spoofing a spoofer as it were.

>>47150893
Mad is 0 Wisdom.
Scelesti are Abyss mages.
You can definitely have a 0 Wisdom Abyss mage.

>>47151029
If a Demon does something nonhuman, they show as human even though they obviously aren't.

If a Demon says to an Obrimos "The sky is green" and it pings true, the Obrimos knows this person is not human, despite the fact that they ping as human.

[Sidenote: I'm not sure whether it would work against Prime Truth Detection; it'd probably require a Clash of Wills/Spoof, meaning the Demon is more likely to win. With Mind, it probably would simply ping however the Demon wants it with no problem]

>>47151068
I think the Demon ability would win out. Not just because it says no ability can detect its a lie, but because the demon determines if the statement is true or not.
So detect truth spell should just see truth symbols.

>>47151068
>>47151104
I can't find the line anymore and it might have been invalidated during Mage 2e's development, but one of the Demon devs said Demons' lie ability beats out all other supernatural truth determining powers, including mages. The reaction would depend on Wisdom and the overall outlook of the mage. A wiser mage would likely conclude that there's something messing with the magic in a way they can't compensate for. A Falling mage might think it's a mystery or a part of the Lie revealed to them, rather than consider the possibility that their spell power isn't absolute.

Like if a demon says "I am made of cheese", a wiser mage would accept that something weird is going on with the statement, but a less wise mage would take it as a confession from a cheesewrought promethean or w/e

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>>47151166

> but a less wise mage would take it as a confession from a cheesewrought promethean or w/e

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>>47151166
Its under liar's tounge

So, I don't know if any anons remember this, but way back in the days of New World/Chronicles of Darkness 1e, some fans got together and did splatbooks for using the system to run tabletop games of Silent Hill and Parasite Eve.

Well, I'd like to complete the trifecta by doing up a splatbook for running Resident Evil tabletop games. I took the idea to the OPP boards, but... well, I don't really know how to crunch stuff for ChroD, and there wasn't really much of a response.

I was wondering if anons here might be interested in helping out?

>>47150600
You can literally breach cover by having an attention span and realizing "hey wait a minute that guy's not my sister's fiancé!"

>>47151104
>the demon determines if the statement is true or not.
That's true, I suppose. I was just thinking that because Demons aren't Supernal, they might not be able to control the symbols, but I think I'm looking at it from the wrong point of view. The Symbols are the result of the action, not the other way around.

>>47151166
Yeah, I know. I'm just thinking of "detecting the distortions", and the Prime lie detector spell works by essentially sensing the Truth of the words, not the emotional context. Demons can lie because of the Liar's Tongue, where they decide whether or not something is true within the Primum of their minds because they have control over their autonomous functions. The Prime spell is more like looking at the actual words.

>>47151243
I actually had the Silent Hill one, but I lost it.

>>47151222
At which point the Obrimos tries to present it with Words of Truth, and hits the snag that it's invalid because it's not objectively true. Alternatively just cast an improvised equivalent to it on the Demon, they can try to lie, but while it pings as true from their view it's not objectively true. At best it would get into a Clash of Wills.

>>47151419
Clash of Wills is what I said earlier. Technically speaking, Spoof is a Clash of Wills, if I understand it right (I don't have Demon on me to check the specifics).

>>47151290
Just a quick google-fu, and I found the site with both the Silent Hill and the Parasite Eve splats. It's down near the bottom of the page.

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/fansups.html

How do you think the splats celebrate mothers day?

>>47151540
Beast certainly does.

>>47151540
Fuck, I forgot I was going to make this Mother's Day Edition.
>>47151553
Fuck, I was going to make that joke.

>>47151540
Our pack finally put down an elder vampire after digging him out of the ghouled tree root system he was sleeping in.

Then we all got free renown for fulfilling the greatest siskur-dah we've been a part of. Thanks mom!

>>47151580
>after digging him out of the ghouled tree root system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

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Can someone with a good grasp of setting cosmology explain what the fuck the difference is between Essence, Mana, and Sekhem? All of them seem to be described as "base stuff of Creation" but are also described as being distinctly different.

>>47151540
Go and visit their graves usually

>>47151658
Well the Hippy Hunter Compact react the same way to people oblating hallows and sucking on loci. So I guess the difference is like fresh water and sea water; same thing but different splats are built to use different types

>>47151243
Just in case anyone's interested, this is what I've gotten done for this "Resident Evil: Chronicles of Darkness" fansplat so far. The big problem is taht it's up to the crunch-working, and like I said, I'm not really much good at crunching numbers.

Really, the whole thing I have so far needs reviewing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HnKvCbqvzWcmxdNqPUKMgvpfg6fnHJd22_0xHv35-7I/edit

>>47151679
Well Changelings usually have to watch from the sidelines as THEIR Fetch spends THEIR time with THEIR mother.

>>47151658
mana is superrefined magic essence
sekhem is superrefined life essence

sucrose/fructose/high fructose corn syrup

>>47151419
It would be Clash of Wills. Liar's tongue determines Truth just like Prime detects. Belief or perception has nothing to do with it.

>>47151736
What ratio of Mana to Sekhem will give you Essence out the other end when thoroughly mixed?

>>47151761
Essence is superrefined spirit essence

>>47151761
you probably need to add to it to turn it into essence again, part of your fallen soul/flesh or somethin
but it would also depend a lot on who's doing the converting

>>47151721
Don't bother statting up all the characters.
Also, looks like it sucks. But that's because Silent Hill > Resident Evil.

>>47151271
No, because he's ALWAYS been your sister's fiance. You remember meeting him multiple times over the past two years or so he's been dating your sister.

The only way you'd breach his cover is if you, say, started asking too many questions about his past, his day job, etc - and even then, if his cover is 7+, he probably has all that stuff squared up no problem.

>>47151761
Mages can trade Mana for Essence and vice-versa with Spirit magic or through a Familiar bond for 1 to 1.

Sekhem can't convert exactly as far as I'm aware. But it's one of the weirder "energies" in CofD - it's like Pyros, where no other splat can directly "touch" it, only manipulate or contain it very indirectly.

>>47151880
Actually, you don't remember him at all. Only your sister remembers him, if she's the one who made the pact.

Only time everyone remembers you is if you stepped into the fiance's life with a Soul Pact, which aren't actually the standard.

>>47149789
Why the f*ck would anyone dislike the Gangrel mariners? They're awesome.

Eh, to each their own I 'spose.

>>47151969
You can say fuck on 4chan.

>>47151912
>through a Familiar bond for 1 to 1.
It's worth noting that this now is 1 for 1 - 1, because you have to pay 1 to transfer at all, but otherwise you get exactly what you're given.

>>47151920
...No? If you buy the relationship "the fiance of X" in a pact, the world rewrites itself for that relationship to make sense. Including making it so that any relevant people have appropriate (if vague, in the case of a low-Cover Cover) memories of that relationship existing.

I mean, you wouldn't even need to have bought the relationship from the sister - if she had a fiance already, he could have sold that relationship.

>>47151912
>Mages can trade Mana for Essence and vice-versa with Spirit magic or through a Familiar bond for 1 to 1.
It's not 1 to 1 with a familiar

>can pass mana and essence between them — Mana given to the Familiar converts into
Essence, and Essence given to the mage converts into Mana, but
one point of the transferred resource is lost with the exchange.

>>47151985
I know, I just like putting asterisks in to make myself feel special.

Well, that... and for shits and giggles.

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>>47152012
Actually, no, >>47151920 is entirely right.
It explicitly says that only the people directly involved in the pact have their memories effected; anybody else is going to notice the change.

If you want to be entirely inconspicuous, you need a Soul Pact.

>Pic Related Source: Page 190 of Demon the Descent

>>47152012
Nop. The "become someone's new girlfriend/boyfriend" is the example they use in the book to explain that only individuals DIRECTLY involved in a pact have their memories altered, and the pact maker & demon are unaffected. So, Steve Mortal sells his relationship to his wife to Sahaquiel the Demon. To Steve's wife, she's always been deeply in love with Sahaquiel, she remembers her first date and that magical evening when Sahaquiel proposed to her. All those beautiful pictures of Steve and his wife become pictures of Sahaqiuel and his wife. Meanwhile, Sahaquiel's new in-laws are looking at him and thinking "who the fuck."
Meanwhile Steve has become a rich smart guy or something.

>>47148136
Does using the Temporal Sympathy or Sympathetic Range require using Reach by itself (not counting need to Reach for sensory casting range)?

>>47152517
No, just a mana.

>>47152635
>>47152517
It also needs to use up a yantra slot. And thats extremely valuable.

>>47152327
Indeed. Which is why it is a good idea to research what you are buying. A relationship where the parents have yet to meet you us more valuable than a relationship with someone that has kids, because there second will degrade your cover.

>>47152327
>>47153155
Actually, pictures aren't changed. I'm pretty sure the book explicitly mentions that. Though I could be wrong. >>47152240 implies that Steve's wife's photos will be changed, but her family's wont.

>>47153274
Its possible. I don't have the book in front of me and I could be off. Either way, I think the important part is stealing a relationship that has been active for a bit is dangerous

>>47150270
Yeah, my Mage actually tracked down a demon that shed it's cover with clever use of Mage sight and divination. He hasn't acted on it yet. He's waiting.

>>47153752
I can understand the divination, but how did mage sight come into play? Spoofing and all.

>>47153840
Spoofing doesn't do shit if you've shed your Cover. Probably used Life Sight to keep track of the Demon.

>>47153976
Ah. I didn't realize all the tracking was done after the cover was dropped. His fault for giving you anything to track.

>>47153752
The mage player in my game was able to find out the new cover of a demon he has meet after the demon forsaken its old one. All thanks to a botched spoof roll.

>27 degrees C
>in May
>in England

I blame Obrimos for this, it was fucking 15 in Madrid

>>47151104
He said that he'd see truth symbols. And that is what proves the demon's nonhumanness.

>>47153976
>Life Sight
>to keep track of a Demon
>of a thing that is very specifically not a living thing as Life defines it

>>47154067
To mage sight everything is comprised of symbols, like tags. Prime lets you identify the symbols attached to true statements, whether they're spoken by mortals, parking lot signs or demons.

>>47154093
>very specifically not a living thing as Life defines
Where does it do that?

>>47154067
Which of course is the demon's fault for lying about easily verifiable truths. On the other hand, if he told you his mother's name was mildrid and you had no idea if that was true or not, your truth spell wouldn't do you any good. It would read as true and you have to take him at his word.

>>47154067
Truth is subjective. If someone is told all their life what we know as a cat is called a dog. To them calling it a dog will be true, even if its not. Does that make the person a demon?

>>47154128
>Truth is subjective.
Not Primal Truth

>>47154093
Its not even SLIGHTLY reasonable to nitpick when people don't use your homebrew that you have yet to even share.

>they can fuck
>they can heal
>they can get poisoned
>they can make half demons
>but they're totally not a form of life

>>47154056
Hey, it also includes Mage sight at its former home, and clever divination! Also, it's story not adding up with his memories!

>>47154153
The divination worked as it did because the demon failed to spoof. Other wise he would have seen a grave.

>>47154119
Which is handy if you want to fuck with sympathetic names. What happens when you use sympathetic magic on the wrong Sympathetic Name? Would the spell hit the name, fizzle or just get penalized because you didn't have your target's name?

>>47154128
In WoD capital T Truth is objective. The opinion or perception is irrelevant. If you say "I believe I'm a cat", that's true. "I AM a cat" is not.

>>47154093
>>47154148
Demons are alive.

>>47154148
Life is complicated thing. Basicaly is Matter+Forces, but limited to things people consider alive.

>>47154181
Demon's fault I was able to figure out it was a demon to begin with.

>>47154223
Yay true.

>>47154182
I suppose it depends on whether the demon's undetectable lie ability extends to powers or not. I know its absolutely impossible for any power to breach a successful spoof roll, but I can't remember if their lying ability covers that.

Nonetheless, if their anti lie detector power, which has a grand total of one job, fails against lie detector powers, you have to admit this is hard core mage wank.

>>47154060
I know mate, i'm fucking sweltering too.

>>47154275
It would either work or at least cause a clash of wills. I think that it's supposed to win out by default, it's just not spelled out anywhere that I've found. However, if the Demon says something that is obviously a lie under a Prime spell, they would out themselves to simple reasoning. The power works, it's just a dumb application of it that runs counter to its intended purpose.

>>47154346
Its spelled out in liar's tongue as stated here >>47151222

>>47154346
Yeah I have no problem with people doing that sort of thing, that's how demons are supposed to be outmaneuvered.

>>47151222
Nice, looks like the mage wankers don't have a leg to stand on.

>yes, I know it says it automatically defeats any method of detecting lies
>yes, I know it says it defeats magical abilities
>yes, I know it says it defeats abilities that verify whether a statement is true on an objective level rather than in the viewpoint of the speaker
>but you see, they didn't capitalize Objective or Truth, and I'm not using magic technically, its maejick

I just realized they added a quest board but why is /tg/ still so shit

>>47154553
/tg/ was always shit

Tabletop gamers are usually quite awful people

>>47154553
Because quests were never the problem. I dislike quests, but this board has other issues.

The fact that it took a while for quests to get moved, but the smut writing thread got removed like 7 months ago... yeah the mods have no idea what they want out of /tg/.

>>47154565

Just the way I like it, we should try to be even more awful

>>47154547
Using minor misinterpretations in the book to defeat demon is flavorish as shit.

I hope we get more Hunter and Promethean open devs soon.

>>47148634
I'd play it.

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Anyone got any ideas on dog spirits? preferably ones that look similar to pic related but not giant.

Trying to come up with banes, bans, influences, etc.

>>47154671
I gave you a ban, you said you liked it. Helping made me happy.

Are you TRYING to hurt my feelings? Because it's working....

>>47154671
Ban: Must continue to ask for more advice after advice is given.

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>>47154671
Rank: 3
Attributes: Power 8, Finesse 9, Resistance 8
Willpower: 16
Essence: 20
Initiative: 17
Defense: 9
Speed: 25
Size: 6
Corpus: 14
Influences: Dogs ••, Loyalty •
Numina: Chorus, Discorporation, Howl*, Know the Path†,
Material Vision, Materialize, Wilds Sense
Bans: Dog-spirits often are held under a ban that forbids
them from attacking any being that has once bested them
in battle. Other dog-spirits are forbidden from dealing
with those that have close ties to cat-spirits.

>>47154671
You are really into dog spirits, huh? And obviously influence: dog. That way, a rank 5 dog solely can mass create dogs.

>>47154547
Actually, the argument is "this doesn't detect what the Demon is saying or feeling or doing, it detects the response of the world". I was the one who first said that Prime's lie detector spell would potentially detect the lie, and I elaborated that only that particular kind of Mage lie detection would work.

Demons work by perfectly controlling every aspect of their meat suit, not the world around their meat suit. Just as the Demon's Liar's Tongue doesn't make the sky green even though they say it is and decide to treat it as true, you could argue that they also don't change the Supernal Symbols associated with the truth or untruth of the statement.

Plus, as >>47154636 points out, that kind of thing is completely in theme. Demon is a game about minimizing the ripples you create because they can lead back to you. This kind of "look at the distortions to find the black hole" approach is exactly how Hunter Angels work.

>>47154671
Ban: must fetch thrown objects.
Bane: Veterinarians

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Asking this >>47148572 again now that there's more people around and it's later in the day.

>>47154731
I would argue that demons do actually control stuff around their meat suit as well. If Spoofing was only limited to what is directly on them, the power wouldn't be all that useful against supernatural threats, and that is directly what it is made for (since humans only work using mundane methods, which Liar's tongue and their perfect body control can take care of).

Spoofing undercuts reality itself (as many Demon powers do), it reaches into the code of what reality works on and makes sure the Demon's job of fitting is that much easier. After all, the G-M needs that same technology to make it possible for angels to do their job, or every bumpkin with some sort of vision ability (aka every creep type, since they all have some sort of power that lets them 'see' things) would pick up Angels all day.

'Sure that guy appears normal, but his body sounds like terrible grinding gears, and his body is giving off energy like a small nuclear furnace.'

>>47154731
>Actually, the argument is "this doesn't detect what the Demon is saying or feeling or doing, it detects the response of the world".

Fortunately, the power specifically notes magical stuff doesn't work on it, even if the magical stuff is trying to verify whether its a true statement, period.

>Demons work by perfectly controlling every aspect of their meat suit, not the world around their meat suit.

Are you lying or willfully misinterpreting the text? They decide the truth on a quantum level (yes, I'm going to assume you're going to argue "oh yeah but objective beats quantum," even though it also makes an exception for the objective level too), but the "perfect control of the meat suit" bit refers to the exact opposite of what you describe: that they don't need this power to trick humans, they have complete self control.

>that kind of thing is completely in theme.

Mage players devaluing other splats and ignoring limits and counters to their powers is not thematic, flavorful, or pertinent to demons, its just their default attitude for well over two decades.

I don't see how it could be more clear, it specifically refers to the quantum nonsense, the objective truth not making a difference, it specifying *any powers, magical or otherwise*, and it specifying that it makes no difference if you try to discover the truth independently of the demon's position.

>>47154818
Like one of those bad games to sell on Steam for a few dollars?

Have a lot of bad ends that end in rape + death. Have a lot of pseudo-good ends where you end up part of a vampire's herd/breeding stock for a woof/experiment for a mage. Then true endings where they love you AND respect you, with lots of smexes.

Bam, there goes your dating sim. Players will talk about best routes, talk about their favorite bad ends, and will play through different routes to get with the different boys/girls/things in different routes.

I just started reading the new Mage 2e book in detail. I though it looked good, but need some time to let most of it really sink in.

I then decided to read the Mage errata and FAQ threads on the Onyx Path forums. Holy crap, there are a *lot* more issues and questions than I ever anticipated from reading the spoilers, Dave's numerous comments, or my initial review of the book.

What's the consensus so far on Mage 2e? Did it meet or exceed most players' expectations, or is Dave in dog house?

>>47154918
>Pierce Deception (Prime •)
>Practice: Unveiling
>Primary Factor: Duration
>Suggested Rote Skills: Investigation, Medicine, Occult
>Prime is the Arcanum of pure Truth, and no falsehood may stand before it. By means of this spell, the subject sees illusions, phantasms, and lies for what they are. The spell sees through mundane falsehoods the subject perceives automatically; magical illusion or deception automatically provokes a Clash of Wills.
>This spell only reveals “active” untruths: the subject would see that someone with dyed hair isn’t really a blonde, or recognize a lie when she heard it, but she wouldn’t know that a Wall Street executive has been committing tax fraud for years just by looking at him. If she got a look at his tax return, however, she would see that it was a falsehood.
>+1 Reach: In addition to sensing falsehoods, the subject gets some symbolic sense of what the actual truth is, veiled in Supernal symbolism and metaphor.
Shit, look at that, it provokes a Clash of Wills. Or are you going to argue that Demon gets to invalidate and ignore limits and counters to other splat's powers?

>>47155020
It weakened Mages, Mage fans are understandably upset about only being supreme by a bit rather than a lot

>>47155020
I fucking love mage 2E, every problem I had with 1E is gone. The few problems I thought I would have with 2E have been rectified. The only problem I have with the book is the time 4 spell that lets you turn certain supernatural back to humans for a short while.

>>47155020
Well the book is just an advanced PDF right now. That errata thread is actually so they can fix the book before print, and everyone that bought that Advanced PDF version will get an updated copy.

So as long as the issue isn't unfixable with just a little text or change here or there, Dave is just fine.

Mage 2E seems great.

>>47155067
Yes, because as is common in the world of /tg/, a can't overrides a can.

Pierce Deception says it can see through magical illusions. Demon says their lies get past magical attempts to see through deceptions. So either you have the universe cave in, or you accept that Demon's can't overrides Mage's can.

>>47155078

It's an advance PDF, not a draft. OP will correct actual errata, but there will not be major changes or additions to the text. The FAQ will hopefully answer most questions and offer some advice.

Don't expect any rules to change. The game you see now will be the same in the final PDF.

>>47155178
Potato, potatoe.

>>47155072
>>47155020

I don't really don't like how much more important they made the use of mana for spellcasting and other powers while simultaneously making it much harder to acquire. They even seem to have removed the old 1e rule that Hallows provided a free mana when casting within their area and artifacts no longer regenerate.

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>>47155117
Strange, it's almost as if there's a system for this in the game. I just can't seem to find it in ANY of the 2e books.

>>47155186
>Potato, potatoe.

I think it's more than that. The comments on the OP forums appear to be requesting or demanding major rules changes, everything from legacies and proximi to fundamental aspects of the new spellcasting system.

>>47155261
Oh, well they are dumb.

>>47155237
See, a clash of wills would be fine... if they were trying to pierce say a Vampire trying not to be seen.

But the Demon power isn't just a magical veil, it is a power specifically built to counter attempts to pierce it, and specifically states it stops those.

>>47155020
Most of the issues are either fringe cases or stupid questions. Overall the book is pretty good. Some stuff got nerfed, some stuff feels like it should be in different Practices (though most of it I can completely see why it would be where it is)

>>47155070
Most of the problems are that it weakened things that didn't need weakening (like Prime, which also got an upgrade). I like that it weakened a lot of the things that did. I like that I can now be a wizard instead of a super psychic who just throws spells by waving his hand.

>>47154999
>Like one of those bad games to sell on Steam for a few dollars?
Hey, the Starcraft dating sim is free :V
But yeah, that's what I meant. I'm honestly tempted to attempt to think about maybe doing that. Problem is I don't know how to draw, and the visual part of a visual novel is pretty important.

>>47155301
"A power specifically built to counter attempts to pierce it" is what a magical veil is.