about to order some of the brand new villa zheng proxies, they are flawless. anyone have pics of their proxes?
I bought some last summer and most were surprisingly good. Especially the 40 dual lands.
I was impressed. Do you think these will pass at a tourney?
No. The color is off and even in a sleeve they have a different thickness.
>>47139001
>proxies
You keep using that word. It doesn't mean what you think it means.
Can you get these from aliexpress? I want to get some fakes for edh decks so I can stop tearing my legacy decks in half everything I want to play edh.
This thread's been linked on Reddit by some "counterfeits aren't proxies reeeee" sperglord. Expect amusement: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/4icbci/user_mistakes_counterfeits_for_proxies/
>>47139626
Too new. Take them out of the case and hard shuffle them a few times in a deck without sleeves.
I support counterfeit cards because of WotC's retarded reprint policy and the greedy secondary market, but why do you have threads like these?
It's really fucking pathetic, like making a forum to discuss how cool your fake Rolex and Lamborghini is.
>>47140710
They need to feel good about themselves, spending real money on fake shit.
It's really pathetic.
Having fake cards won't make you any better at Legacy, faggots.
>>47139626
do what the other guy said, beat them up a little
Reported and sage for violating rule of no illegal content (IP violation).
>>47140925
no, but it lets me actually play the fucking game
>>47140884
>>47140925
>>47140950
>assmad that they "Investment" will tank value thanks to chinamen flooding th market
>>47141209
wew
this
>>47141209
>>47141229
Stay poor.
>>47141209
>we cornered this market and even bullied wizards into protecting our investments, isn't the free market great
>wah wah the chinamen are responding to market forces by providing supply to meet demand
MTG finance people are retarded if they think their greed and price fixing aren't directly responsible for chinaman proxies flooding the market.
>>47140929
>>47140642
I have a dozen legit duals and pretty much none of them are in the ridiculously shitty condition everyone for some reason says is required for them to be real.
>>47139626
You can also try to leave them in the sun until they fade a bit. That can make them look more convincing, since they are Revised.
Also, if you are familiar with mini painting, do a light wash with coffee. The chances of finding a 20+ year old card that has seen heavy play that is as crisp as these is almost zero.
Other than that, welcome to the wonderful world of Chinaman Eternal Masters.
>>47141378
I don't think they need to be beat up, but a bit of wear makes counterfeits less conspicuous. Even if you pulled them from a pack back in the day, and you've taken good care of them and they've always been in sleeves, if you have played with them, they are not going to be as crisp as they once were. A playset of perfect, gem mint Tundras calls attention onto itself, which is what you want to avoid if you have counterfeits.
LP duals are common enough that you don't think twice when you see one.
>>47141542
Before I upgraded to FBB because I'm not poor I had crisp Revised duals.
It's not easy to fake 20 years of wear. Though yea, go for it, make your fake cards look even faker and easier to call out.
>>47141954
>being proud of spends hundreds of dollars on 20+ year old cardboard
>>47141981
It's more like
>being proud I make enough money to afford a hobby
>>47142074
>thinking affording needlessly expensive versions of things is "affording the hobby"
>>47142074
I play mtg with chinese fakes.
I enjoy the hobby
I don't spend thousands on cardboard
I'm proud of it
>Thank you based chinamen
>>47141954
Easy there, Gordon Gekko. You are a bit out of your depth.
I work restoring art pieces, so I know a thing or two about time induced and usage induced wear . Everyone is an expert on 2 month-old, booster crisp cards, since we are all familiar with them. Your 22 year old revised duals, on the other hand, might look crisp to you, but they would not fool an expert, who would look for things that simple exposure to air does to ink and cardboard, specially on non-archival materials, like Magic cards.
It would be hard to fake a well-taken care of 22-year-old card, but I don't need to. I only need to fake 22 years of stains and wear on a lightly played card. That is fairly easily achieved, since it is individual to each card. No one knows what to look for.
>>47142143
I don't buy Rotas when I can afford Volks.
I don't buy fakes when I can afford the real thing.
It's a matter of principle.
>>47142190
People looking for signs of a fake don't give a damn about the wear because there are inherent problems with the way fakes are printed that give them away, wear present or not.
>>47142217
We are talking about making the counterfeits more believable from a psychological perspective, not from a physical one. Counterfeits always get detected upon close inspection.
However, playsets of lightly played Revised duals are less conspicuous than gem-mint ones. Therefore, they are less likely to induce suspicions in others, which leads to a smaller likelihood of getting your cards checked for counterfeits.
Try to keep up, moneybags.
Oh hey, look another "It's not money it's skill" bullshit defense mechanism thread. Just because you have the cards doesn't mean you're actually good at the format. The price is a feature, not a bug, to keep scrubs like you out of this glorious format.
I challenge one of you faggots to a Legacy 1v1 on XMage.
Room name: /tg/ put your skill where your fakes are
PW: counterfeits
I'll have the lobby up for 15 minutes. One of you has until then to join. Prepare to get creamed.
>Hey I bought these proxies so I could play.
>HURR YOU NEED DA REEL ONES CUS FAKES R BAD.
>But I don't want to pay $800 for a play set of one dual land.
>WELL GIT GUD POORFAG I CAN AFORD THESE CARDS CUS I WORK AT MIC DOODLES.
>>47142310
It doesn't matter psychologically. When I see fakes, it's obvious that they're fake even without close inspection, regardless of the wear. Now, not every Legacy player is like this. But there are many who have played the game long enough and been around real cards enough to immediately notice when something isn't right.
Try to keep up, rookie.
>>47142386
And why would they care?
>>47142203
Cool story bro.
>>47142381
Printing out cards form Z's Proxy Factory is using proxies. Buying shit from chinks is using counterfeits. Learn the difference, it might save you from a DCI ban.
>>47142449
There is literally zero difference between the two.
>>47142386
Oh, look! It's one of those unique snowflakes that can spot a double-sleeved counterfeit from across the table.
At some point, you should realize that you have already played against fakes and your spider-sense did not tingle.
>>47142349
Can i play even if i support fakes?
>>47142386
It's called the toupee fallacy, because like with toupees, you only think "lol it's so easy to spot" because you only notice the bad ones. I guarantee you've seen a bunch of them in real life, without any prep or foreknowledge, and thought they were real.
>>47142459
Not entirely. One is understood to be never for sanctioned tournament use. The other is used to try and dupe TOs and Judges.
You could argue that this all depends on the actual usage of the cards by their owner, but if there really was zero difference as you claim, then no one would ever buy the chink shit. You can make very pretty proxies using Zeerbe's art (which is arguably better than the original Revised) with a good laser printer and MTG card that you've wiped blank with acetone. And these cards can be used for casual, nonsanctined play. Even Sharpie on the back of a basic Island would work fine for nonsanctioned play.
But because you wish to cheat your way into a sanctioned event, you buy from the chinks. That's the only reason chink counterfeits exist. And that's the difference between the two.
>>47142386
>+1 added to your Star of david games account
>>47142460
>At some point, you should realize that you have already played against fakes and your spider-sense did not tingle.
Everyone at my weekly Legacy owns real cards. Sorry we're not on welfare like everyone ITT.
>>47142533
I borrowed a friend's Abzan Control deck during THS/KTK Standard and he didn't tell me that there were fake Elspeth, Sun's Champions in there. I noticed it immediately once I drew the card for the first time. It wasn't a bad one, but it doesn't need to be. It just has to be off enough to set off a mental alarm.
>>47142550
So Z'a Art is literally "print out, cut out, and insert into card sleeve over shit common"? Where do I sign up! I can finally get my friends to experiment with planeswalkers without the huge price rage associated with it.
>>47142600
>You don't want to spend $150+ (Two weeks of food) on a single card I'll need four of (another 4 of a different one if 3-color deck)?
>Must be on welfare.
You're an idiot.
>>47142601
Zeerbe.blogspot.com
>>47142523
Scrubs of all kinds are welcome, but the scrubs that claim that they're good at Magic and buy fakes are who I'm really itching to beat.
>>47142600
>Everyone at my weekly Legacy owns real cards. Sorry we're not on welfare like everyone ITT.
I can't speak for your particular event but I noticed that everyone who plays Legacy near me drives shit cars and you can tell that they put all of their money into Magic. I feel kind of bad for them to be honest.
>>47142657
Yea that kinda feels bad. Everyone at my weekly has decent paying jobs (doctor, college professor with PhD in field, office desk jockey–hey, I said decent paying job not fulfilling, tenured HS teacher) so they drive nice mid-tier cars.
When you start cutting expenses in other areas of your life just to play MTG, that's where you're doing it wrong.
>>47142600
>>I spotted a fake once, that must mean I spot all fakes.
You should really think about selling your cards and invest on an education.
>>47142600
Don't worry, your penis is probably adequately sized.
>>47142705
It's because I HAVE an education that I can afford my cards. Good try though.
>>47142753
>>I have cards. That makes me smarterer than everybody else. I went to college.
>>47142797
Nice strawman.
But I'll spoonfeed you, Little Dubya. It's because I have an education that I was able to land a well-paying job. I use the expendable funds from said well-paying job to buy real Legacy cards.
Literally get jobs you neet faggots. If you're too poor for duals I don't want to have to smell you at Legacy tournaments.
Hi Armansky. Too chickenshit to play?
>>47142601
>>47142634
You can also go to magiccards.info. They usually have some pretty high-res scans of cards so if you print them out on a decent color printer and cut them nicely they'll look pretty good.
>>47142633
Your state only gives you $75 a week in foodstamps? Poor kid.
>>47142753
>>47142847
If you had a better education, you'd realize that Veblen goods are bullshit and buying into them just makes you a sucker. The smart money is in buying something just as good for a fraction of the price. Do you honestly think people who are actually successful in life instead of being hamster wheel spinning middle class jackoffs let themselves get fleeced by people selling ovepriced bullshit you can get cheaper elsewhere?
You might as well say you're successful in life because you can buy bottled water for $50 a bottle. It means you have money, not that you're good with it.
>>47142899
That's why I said "expendable funds" buddy. I invest or save a large percentage of what remains after taxes and bills, and then spend the rest of the money on whatever the fuck I want because I'm an adult. It just so happens that the amount of free-to-spend money I have left over can buy me real duals, not fake ones.
>>47142847
You still haven't explained the connection between your job and your spide-sense, beyond having a couple of friends who own the cards and one time you spotted a fake that you played with. But if your opponent uses fakes, you don't get to touch them unless you specifically ask to.
I also know people who have played in GPs and PTQs with fakes, they had their decks checked and no one has ever noticed.
It's okay to admit that anyone can be fooled by the quality of today's counterfeits. Even special snowflakes with the real cards and a job. You only sound stupid when you pretend to be smarter than everybody else.
>>47142928
>he thinks pieces of cardboard indistinguishable from cheaper versions provide a better ROI than investing that extra few thousand
Please, tell me more about this education of yours. Because you sure didn't study anything involving math, economics, or finance if that's the shit you're spewing.
I'm guessing naive STEMbaby, myself. Being able to invert a binary tree on a whiteboard doesn't mean you know jack shit about making sound financial decisions.
>>47142980
Look at >>47141957
It's easy to tell that that Badlands, those Useas, and that Bayou are all fake. And that's not even a high-res picture.
You're only being fooled because you've let yourself be fooled. Subconsciously you realize that fakes are easy to spot, but you keep telling yourself not because you don't want to face the reality that you might be DCI banned one day for playing with them.
>>47142896
Bait.
Bet you buy "organic" fruits at 3x normal market price because "they're better than those pesticide covered fakes".
>>47143025
>it's easy to tell the duals are fake
Then elucidate, you cockmuncher
>>47142992
It would make sense that someone who doesn't have a real job wouldn't understand the concept of expendable money.
Sure, I could invest that extra couple grand. But I don't because my portfolio is at where I want it to be at this point in my life. And since dual lands are a one-time downpayment, money from future paychecks can be redistributed however I see fit. Mind you, I finished buying my duals a few months ago so now my spare money that's not in my 401k, IRA, Schwab investment account, or savings (both long term and rainy day) is sitting my checking account waiting to purchase whatever tickles my fancy next.
>>47143025
So, people using fakes in sanctioned play are not getting caught because everybody is suffering from some sort of hallucination where cards are easy to spot, but they pretend they are not.
Or, perhaps, they are not as easy to spot as you might think.
Occam's razor.
>>47143090
The colors of the cards are all off, the white border is too white (no amount of artificial scuffing will change that, and coffee only stains it brown to the point where it's not even believable anymore)
You've probably never seen a real dual, though, so I accept your apology.
>>47142992
And to add, I'm not "investing" my money in duals. I'm simply buying them. I have no intention on selling them in the future.
>>47143025
im not disagreeing with you on that picture, because they do look fake, but why does it matter if people are playing with counterfeits or not? it doesnt make them a better player to have them, nor does it make you any better. it simply makes the game more accessible to people who might be less fortunate than you. if taking this much time to derail a thread on 4chan is what it takes for you to get your jollies then you are clearly lying about something
>>47143124
I recognize this smugness. You're that one anon that kept insisting he was a model and bragged about owning like 3 duals
>>47143121
If you don't know what to look for, you won't spot them. It's not a question of whether the fakes are actually fooling people or not. It's the lack of knowledge in how to spot them. If you don't know what you're looking for, you won't see it.
>>47143099
>But I don't because my portfolio is at where I want it to be at this point in my life.
Found the underachiever. I'm guessing you were satisfied getting Bs in school too.
>401k, IRA, Schwab investment account, or savings
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA found the forever middle class guy. Have fun never being actually rich if you think that makes you some kind of high roller.
Luxury goods are an investment. Why spend more money than you need to on anything if you aren't getting anything from it? You wear a better suit, drive a better car, and all that shit because you want to be accepted into better social circles. It's all a part of networking. Thousands of dollars on a better presentation means you can make better friends and have better opportunities. Thousands of unnecessary dollars on cardboard is just a waste.
Ignorant STEMbaby who doesn't know jack shit about real money management confirmed.
>>47143059
I buy whatever I want to eat because I have a job and don't get Autismbux from the gubbermint.
>>47143099
How about I spell it out for you.
>Guy A buys a $500,000 car from 1980.
>Guy B buys a $50,000 car from 2016.
>Guy A and Guy B have cars that are similar in comfort level, exact same gas mileage, exact same horsepower, and exact same color.
>Guy A is convinced his car is physically better that Guy B's car since Guy A paid more for his car.
>Guy B see's that he saved $450,000 on a car that performs and feels exactly the same as the more expensive one.
>Guy A is furious Guy B didnt buy a $500,000 car and tries to get Guy B banned from the racing club.
>Guy B decides to ignore Guy A and buy 9 other $50,000 goodies with the money he saved while Guy A would have to pay $4,500,000 for the "better" versions of the 9 goodies Guy B bought.
>Guy A is a salty prick and dies alone.
>>47143216
Only difference is people who matter might care that you drive the more expensive car. No one who matters is going to network with you or offer you any significant opportunities because they're impressed by the cardboard you buy.
>>47143216
It's more like:
Guy A buys $500k car, guy B buys $50k replica. Both try to enter a Concours. Guy B gets laughed out and banned.
>>47143208
Attacking the person is a logical fallacy and you know it. The better alternative to paying $800 for four cards is paying $20 for four cards that are nearly perfect copies of the legit versions. I don't know why you think it's a status symbol to waste hundreds of dollars on "Official" cardboard.
>>47143155
>but why does it matter if people are playing with counterfeits or not?
If you're using them for casual play just because you don't want to do the paper whatever, then that's okay. Still kinda scummy, but no one wins and no one loses (except for maybe an LGS that would have made some money selling one of the duals in their inventory, but that's another discussion).
The issues arise when people enter sanctioned events hoping to win prizes (cash or cards) while playing with these fakes.
>>47143273
More like
>Guy A wastes money on a piece of shit card that's stained and wrinkled from 20 years of heavy use
>Guy B buys a pretty proxie for a minuscule fraction of the price Guy A paid for his
>Guy A tries to get Guy B banned, but fails since Guy B's proxie is not shit.
>Guy A still salty.
>>47143273
>People spoting fakes during tournaments
If that helps you to sleep better...
>>47143278
>The issues arise when people enter sanctioned events hoping to win prizes (cash or cards) while playing with these fakes.
Do you honestly think Wizards gives a single fuck about legacy anymore? The format is over twenty years old and every possible competitive combo possible in the card set has already been made, re-made, polished, and then copied in proxy decks costing 1/28th of the real cost.
>>47143124
>>no amount of artificial scuffing
Handling them with sweaty hand will, though.
>>coffee only stains it brown to the point where it's not even believable anymore
Not entirely true. Watered-down coffee will add weathering effects and create a pretty believable patina, specially through a matte plastic sleeve. Of course, if you want to do it more believable, I suggest you read up on how modellers achieve weathering effects in plastic kits, and the kind of washes they use.
Color saturation is a bad method to discern fakes at a glance. It can be easily manipulated, via exposure to sunlight. If the Chinaman is over saturating, there are several methods to de-saturate and make it essentially the same as a real card. You only need some practice and a real dual for level comparison. At some point, the human eye will not be able to tell the difference.
>>47143205
>Luxury goods are an investment.
Luxury goods aren't an investment. Nobody buys a Patek watch with the expectation 1) it'll appreciate in value or 2) that they''ll sell it off in a few years. Do you even read what you write?
> Why spend more money than you need to on anything if you aren't getting anything from it?
Because there's a sense of accomplishment that you own the thing. Why buy a Porsche Macan when a GC does the same thing for cheaper? Because I want a Porsche and like to walk into my garage every morning and think, "Yea, I've made it to a great place in life."
>You wear a better suit, drive a better car, and all that shit because you want to be accepted into better social circles.
If you go through life giving a shit what other people think about you, you'll never be happy.
>It's all a part of networking. Thousands of dollars on a better presentation means you can make better friends and have better opportunities. Thousands of unnecessary dollars on cardboard is just a waste.
I already have what I need for my professional life, so I'm comfortable spending whatever amount I want on my personal/leisure life.
>>47143278
Let's be real here, stores aren't making that much money on duals. Their prohibitively high cost mitigates the investment of most players, since most people arent willing to drop $200 on cardboard. Yes, the duals sell, but not on a consistent enough basis that stores would make some sort of profit. Unless you're Star of David Games
And it's legacy, you're willing to cut the bullshit just to play with someone IRL, legit, proxy or even just printed out. Wizards doesn't care and hasn't cared since like 2005.
>>47143369
>I'm comfortable spending thousands of dollars on aged cardboard so I can win $20 of store credit.
Wise investment strategy.
>>47143369
>I have to invest thousands on cardboard to feel accomplished in life
What a sad life do you have
>>47143349
>Do you honestly think Wizards gives a single fuck about legacy anymore?
Wizards doesn't, but there are many high-profile tournaments that show that the playerbase cares (Bazaar, Eternal Ex, Eternal Weekend, Ovino, etc.)
>>47143390
>And it's legacy, you're willing to cut the bullshit just to play with someone IRL, legit, proxy or even just printed out. Wizards doesn't care and hasn't cared since like 2005.
I'm always happy to play casual Legacy against people with proxies. But keep the use of proxies to non-sanctioned events.
>>47143411
>>47143443
I have fun, if that's what you're questioning.
>>47143445
> But keep the use of proxies to non-sanctioned events.
Good thing that Wizards doesn't give a shit about legacy then.
>>47143369
>Luxury goods aren't an investment. Nobody buys a Patek watch with the expectation 1) it'll appreciate in value or 2) that they''ll sell it off in a few years. Do you even read what you write?
Wow, it's like investing in future opportunities isn't even a thing you know about.
>If you go through life giving a shit what other people think about you, you'll never be happy.
But you will be more successful. The trick is to manage others' expectations, not conform blindly to them. Don't do things because "lol it's expected." Do things because "if I do this, I'm more likely to get x."
So you're not only a STEMbaby, but you're a STEMbaby who thought a B was a high grade. Maybe you should've taken some economics or finance courses so you'd know something applicable to the real world. I honestly feel kind of sorry for you because your "education" didn't really teach you the important elements of becoming successful.
>>47143464
Why would I want them to? It would lead to shitty bans. Just look at Modern.
>>47143445
Anything not sponsored by wizards is a non-sanctioned event.
Here's a great investment strategy when playing legacy. Play it online for free with friends and strangers. All the fun without any of the hassle and limitation of budgets.
>>47143466
>Wow, it's like investing in future opportunities isn't even a thing you know about.
Very few people will be able to identify a Patek just by looking. This isn't a movie, either. There's no Patrick Bateman narcissism, no one who matters cares that you wear Ralph Lauren and drive Mercedes Benz.
>I honestly feel kind of sorry for you because your "education" didn't really teach you the important elements of becoming successful.
As If I care about what a per-diem poster on the poorest forum that MTG discussion occurs on has to say about "success."
>>47143512
If it uses WER, it's a sanctioned event.
>>47143557
>Very few people will be able to identify a Patek just by looking. This isn't a movie, either. There's no Patrick Bateman narcissism, no one who matters cares that you wear Ralph Lauren and drive Mercedes Benz.
So you've just outed yourself as the kind of person those people don't even bother talking to.
>As If I care about what a per-diem poster on the poorest forum that MTG discussion occurs on has to say about "success."
:^)
God damn, Legacy is cancer, never paid any attention to Legacy related threads because i wasn't into the format, but now that im starting to find some unused funds in my wallet i was thinking about it.
If these are the kinds of spergs that make up the legacy player base then im just expending my extra money in a new computer and more planeswalkers.
I just want to have fun and compete a little as a way to keep having fun, but this doesn't look nice at all.
>>47143820
Naw dawg, most Legacy players are chill enough. It's just that every store has a few Those Guys who act like the retard in this thread but in real life you can just ignore them because they're too chickenshit to speak up.
>>47143889
Maybe i should make a little investigation on my local
I get along very well with the owner of the store i go to, and sometimes i just go to hang around a bit, so i can do that the next Legacy tourney played there and see how is it while playing a bit against the store owner.
>>47143369
>Why buy a Porsche Macan when a GC does the same thing for cheaper? Because I want a Porsche and like to walk into my garage every morning and think, "Yea, I've made it to a great place in life."
I get that you're trying to show off but I lol'd hard at you buying a Macan
>>47142349
Pretty sure this is pasta
>>47143820
My experience with legacy threads on /tg/ is that the posters aren't at all elitist and some actually like fakes as it encourages more people to get into the format, even if it could devalue their cards. Counter-fit threads tend to attract the autists. Also, some asshole linked the thread to reddit.
>>47145513
If it's not it should be.
