Previous kalpa: >>47113408
Several rounds of debate ensue, but no actual facts are presented, and Dhavin finally moves to adjourn. An entire evening wasted.
>Tabletop/P&P RPGs
[Scrollhammer - Tabletop Wargame] http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scrollhammer_2nd_Edition
Discussion in #Scrollhammer (irc.thisisnotatrueending.com (port 6667))
[UESRPG 1e + other TES RPGs] http://www.mediafire.com/uesrpg
Discussion in #UESRPG (same server)
>Lore Resources
[The Imperial Library] http://www.imperial-library.info/
[/r/teslore] http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/
[UESP/Lore] http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page
[Pocket Guide to the Lore] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AtsWXZKVqB4Q825_SwINY6z4_9NaGknXgeOknOCDuCU/edit
[Elder Lore Podcast] http://www.elderlore.wordpress.com/
[How to Become a Lore Buff] http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/
>General Rules
No waifus except Pelinal Whitestrake please.
Keep the MK/Lady N related squabbling to a minimum.
>>47134911
First for Telvanni.
>>47134911
second for redoran
Third for Mora.
Fourth for Indoril, not pictured due to BETRAYAL
>>47134995
>the whole Great House gets massacred by Morag Tong
Hardcore.
>>47135070
>implying house mora is dead
The Ra'athim are behind everything, Anon. Everything.
>>47135325
>that filename
kek'd
May I present one of the few good things in ESO
cute dragonsneks
>>47135536
TES needs more Sneks. If they do Hammerfell next, I want some version of Mongolian Deathworms. Just as snakes instead of worms.
>>47135575
I wouldn't mind whenifthey visit Black Marsh, that there were all sorts of serpents and wyrms and shit. Sort of like how there are different forms of Khajiit, but the Hist basically made all these solely for making sure anyone who invades Argonia can politely fuck off. Argonians being the only really diplomatic race.
It would kind of work, since there's already things like hydras.
Its alright to bully Peryite, right? He smells like farts
Bethesda's 'capital cities' will never not trigger me with their 20 houses.
>>47135680
I find it odd how his enemy in Daggerfall is listed as Vaermina. You'd think with his whole natural order thing, he'd be enemies of Molag Bal, who tries to upset the natural order.
Still, I honestly don't think Peryite is that dickish of a daedric prince. Skyrim especially seemed to try and mellow him out a bit.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unsent_Afflicted_Letter
>>47135804
>trying to spread a disease all over tamriel
>mellow out
>>47135833
Well yeah but he's not being a dick about it.
>>47135804
Pery has always been a dick, even in Skyrim.
>>47135804
They're competing for the role of least relevant Prince.
so,uh, ESVI when?
>>47137174
never
ever
>>47135349
is it OC?
Was Magnus blind to the potential of Nirn, or was he right to abandon Mundus before it was too late?
Was Lorkhan a devilish trickster, or a wise spirit who wanted to create the best possible world?
>>47137474
Magnus had to leave, his presence made Nirn unstable.
>>47137474
>Was Lorkhan a devilish trickster
If you're a filthy knife ear. Talk shit about Shezarr again, see what happens bitch.
How did the early Imperials manage to take control of the White-Gold Tower? The Aylieds built it and made its stone, and there's never been another instance of a tower being 'passed' to another race.
>>47137174
after we get ESV
>>47138312
Pelinal banished Umaril, got dismembered, and the aylieds decided to fuck off once their demigod warrior king died.
Speaking of Pelinal's dismemberment. Is the armor from Knights of the Nine Pelinal's body? I haven't played it in a long time, back when I didn't know any lore.
>>47138511
Probably not - each one was said to be made by the Divines, so it's probably literal armor to go over his cyborg body. Or the remnants of his body have changed over time, like the shape of some artifacts do.
And looking at Varieties of Faith, it says that Morihaus is portrayed as the Taker of the Citadel, so it[s probably not just Umaril's death.
>>47138511
Pelinal was said to have a face in one of the song of Pelinal books I believe, so it is his armor. His mortal remains long decomposed. One could argue it was a projection, but I doubt it. Always take deep lore stuff with a grain of salt, especially if it's not mostly in-game.
So Tiber Septim mantled Shezzar, right? Talos is obviously a fairly pro-human god.
>>47138599
Well, Pelinal being a construct of some sort, and not a man, is heavily implied in The Song of Pelinal.
>beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion
So he's literal rage incarnate. He might not be a future death robot sent back in time to kill elves, but he is definitely not a man. Although now that I read that, he does have star-armor, so my original question was answered there I suppose.
>>47138491
after we get ESIV
>>47138722
who's the little guy near the flower?
>>47138809
An imgakin
>>47138511
>ayylieds
fuck you tumblr
>>47137474
"mundus was a mistake"
- magnus
>>47139315
But they're literally called Aylieds. Heartland High Elves is a bit of a mouthful.
>>47139400
Ayleid. E-I
>>47139480
I BEFORE E EXCEPT AFTER C
I BEFORE E EXCEPT AFTER C
I BEFORE E EXCEPT AFTER C
I BEFORE E EXCEPT AFTER C
>>47139570
not for a proper noun
>most worshippers of Z'en were wiped out by a plague
So that's why the Bosmer seem unable to work for anything.
>>47139570
There are more exceptions to that rule than words which follow it. Also, this: >>47139583
>>47135804
Peryite is the prince of disease. He pretended to be the prince of order after Jyggalag went bonkers but nobody actually took him seriously in that regard, in no small part because he had no idea what he should actually DO as the "prince of order".
He's at odds with Vaermina because Vaermina gives him nightmares
>>47141119ESOsays that he keeps things orderly in Oblivion by fighting wild daedric creatures.
>Peryite is in charge of keeping daedrons - chaotic creatia made sentient from the exertion of Daedric or mortal will - from causing damage in Oblivion, mainly through events known as 'realm-rips'. When asked, Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says that "trying to keep ahead of it all keeps Peryite mighty busy, but nobody really feels sorry for him - after all, he earned it."
Personally I think it's a stupid way of working in the natural order part of his portfolio. It should be like Nurgle and his unchanging stuff.
>>47141210
Yeah well ESO can piss up a rope, because that's not how daedra or oblivion work.
>>47139710
They didn't work even then, they just stole from the best thieves and gave to the worst thieves.
Lush Ascadian Isles looks really good.
Better than a lot of texture replacers.
>>47141460
>tfw bb clothes keep clipping with robert's bodies
>>47134911
wow this thread is moving fucking slow today
It's been a while since I've last played Morrowind.
Does it also have more bandit population that city folk in a fashion similiar to Skyrim?
>>47142861
As far as I remember, most of the enemies in the game are creatures and dagoth faggots, though there are a few bandits.
>>47142861
A lot of times, you'll see someone on the road, talk to them, and then they'll try and mug you. You wise up after a while. Most bandit groups are like, 7 people or so.
Playing Sotha Sil Expanded
Where is the Archcanon?
Where is the Temple District?
Where can I get a bed to sleep?
What is the truth of TES, /tg/? What's the point? Who do we want to win in the end? What philosophy should we follow?
>>47144684
It's just a video game, anon
>>47144684
It is to know love.
>>47144684
There is only one truth, and that isThat none of it matters from, at best, this point forward
>>47144684
The point is to kill things, read books and be the big hero that lets the world keep spinning for a few more years.
Wait, does Nirn spin? Does it orbit a star?
Hey, wanting to set up a game where the party plays as bandits. Any ideas on what to include and how to run it? Was thinking of setting it in Daggerfall, Skyrim or Cyrodiil before possibly getting into more alien terrain.
>>47145065
Nirn is the center of everything. Nirn spins, Masser orbits Nirn, Secunda orbits Masser. The sun sits between Nirn and the void, where Magnus watches the world he designed from afar.
>>47145095
Will this bandit group have a history reaching back centuries to the great founding bandits whose relics are either lost or kept out of the reach of the players?
Like seemingly every faction the player joins.
>>47145120
Is that map to scale?
>>47145142
Nope. Just a bunch of dudes who formed under an old orc. Very recent group. Setting it either after the events of Skyrim, After the events of Oblivion or Five years after the Great War.
>>47145194
I don't believe so. I don't think we know for sure how big the other planets are, being God bodies and such. Its just to show the astronomy.
>>47145194
This is the official Orrey, so this might be better to scale.
>>47145223
I'd recommend after the Oblivion Crisis - nothing's quite fragmented yet, but there's a lot of problems, and plenty of opportunity for bandits to make coin. You could even literally watch everything fall apart.
And I'm a bit of a Bretonfag, but I'd recommend starting in High Rock. Orcs are pretty plentiful there in Orsinium, and you're distant enough you have time before you have to react to events going on - unlike in Cyrodiil, where the Legions will be prowling everywhere and there'll be too much devastation for a good profit.
>>47145348
>Zenithar is closest to Mara and Dibella
And thus it is confirmed that only hard work can get you women.
But seriously, how can they tell which ones are which? Does the size mean anything, or the positioning?
>>47145095
Rally all the bandits and take over the world. The collective population of all bandit groups easily outnumbers the folks living in cities, even more so when you take rogue mages, necromancers and cultists into account.
A number of bandit camps like to use traps, catching wolves, fighting pits, bars, hostages, drug trafficking, slaves trafficking and of course attacking travellers and trade carts, some of which have guards and powerful artefacts that you have to give to the boss.
A quest could be to catch a vampire while they slept to use as a trap. The vampire will need to be starved before you can rely on them to go berserk on an intruder once released from a cage, which is also when they're most powerful. That's some quality bandit security right there. And don't let the players convince the boss that it's a bad idea, it's a GREAT IDEA!.
Then there's the problems bandits have to deal with. Invading cultists looking for a crowd of sacrifices. Guards patrolling and attacking. Adventurers and possibly even Heroes come to wipe you out. Falmer, Spiders, Dwemer Constructs and other deep cave dwelling creatures breaking into the hideout from below or the bandits digging too deep. Second in commands trying to usurp leadership from the boss. Local pair of ogres/trolls chased away another group of bandits from a trade cart they took down. Farm stopped paying protection money because the Legion appeared. Have to move since trouble's brewing too hot. Have to rescue boss' son from another group of bandits. Boss been eating the mushrooms that're making him a bit loopy and giving weird commands.
>>47145687
Don't forget inter-bandit warfare. Bandits and Marauders, different gangs lead by different leaders, people who quarreled and formed split off groups. It could sort of be like rough politics on the edges of civilization, forming tenuous alliances and backstabbing the worst of your friends and turning the rest on the most dangerous of your enemies.
So the chameleon spell was probably dropped for being too OP, so what lore explanation can you all think for why it was dropped?
>>47145761
They still have invisibility so as far as I'm concerned the loss is benign lore-wise.
>>47145761
Simple - necromancy wasn't available in earlier games due to how it was illegal. Chameleon type spells were banned after the Oblivion Crisis, because of the Emperor's assassination and later fears in Skyrim about assassination of local leaders causing chaos and instability.
A lot of magic is about what is legal, what is available, and what is taught. A lot of mysticism was constrained to keep it from delving too close to true necromancy.
>>47145386
Highrock does seem like the place. Breton nobles tossing their coin about, hiring brigands to intercept rival trading routes and such. Eventually I want them travelling all over for some reason. Gotta find a catalyst for that.
>>47146285
Depends on when you set it, but a good general reason is that some noble gets strong enough that he decides he no longer needs your help and forces you out. Or the pickings just get too slim, or the roads too dangerous.
>>47146306
How about visiting redguard? I imagine hitting a forebear envoy or something like that would win them a powerful enemy. What would Orsinium even be like? I never hear much talk about the kind of city it was.
What does /tgesg/ think of /r/teslore?
>>47146359
Sure, that could be a good plan. And it's called Hammerfell - the race is Redguard.
As for Osinium, we don't really know what the town itself looks like. I'd imagine it's like one of those Orc strongholds in Skyrim, but bigger and with some proper walls. Orsinium is also the name of a larger Orcish kingdom that formed after the Warp in the West.
>>47146464
Too tinfoil hat-y.
>>47146464
Casuals, autists, ESO supporters.
>>47146464
It's alright.
>>47143684
Head through the residential district, last I checked there's a Guide at the front of each one who gives directions. Either way you can sort of navigate it just by looking at what buildings have lightning rods over them, since the only buildings in the entire clockwork city have those rods over them.
>>47143684
Don't you immediately get a house once you walk out of the place? The voice tells you to use Fyr Manor.
Alright tgesg, how do the cultures of Nirn celebrate Mother's Day?
>>47147916
Orcs usuallyvisit your momon this day.
>>47147916
They don't, as far as we know.
But it was Second Planting yesterday, and tomorrow it's Marukh's Day.
>>47147990
Based Temple.
>>47147952
>putting deep and philosophical thought into drunken squabbling of some basement dweller
>>47148015
like every weekend
What are you anons doing for Lady Mara today? She is the Mother Goddess after all.
>>47147325
FUCK OFF BETHKEK
>>47149062
rude
>>47147916
Every day is Mother's Day
>>47147325
thanks
>>47147336
I can find Fyr Manor storage, but not Fyr Manor itself.
>>47146464
I like teslore, its a good place to go during the weekdays, so long as theres no C0DA or ESO bullshit going on, its fine
>>47145895
>A lot of magic is about what is legal, what is available, and what is taught.
Is that why in Skyrim you can't Enchant Spell Absorption, and Spell Reflect is utterly gone? Because the Thalmor did it (to make it even harder to fight back against them)?
>>47139397
did someone order a package of memes?
http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43642/?
Ah, Illusion. One of the most subtle schools, it changes perception, not reality. You will never be able to change what is or is not, only what seems to be. But what if perception is reality? Why you could be a god, something worth pondering.
Destruction, most mages deride it as a blunt instrument, barely worth consideration at an academic level. Be wary, destruction begets destruction, and always seeks its own. But under a steady will, a well aimed bolt may carve a jagged gash through history.
Conjuration is a trap for the careless and the foolish. Creatures bound only work under sufferance, and the Daedra are ever eager to betray. They are immortal, and their memories stretch endlessly. If you are wise and courtious, you may survive. Never suppose that any being is completly under your thrall.
Alteration creates no mere change in perception, it affects what is. In many ways Alteration is the most grounded of the schools of magic. Just remember, grounded isn't the same as simple.
I confess, I never get much of a chance to practice Restoration. I suppose I could always experiment on you, but not even Restoration can bring back the dead
You cannot explain Mysticism. It defies the hopes of wouldby scholars seeking to fit it to a definition. It is a school of paradoxes and internal inconsistincies, and the Psijic's treat it as a way of life. Mysticism cannot be taught, and each of us studies it in solitude
>>47150933
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mysticism_Trainers
>>47145348
Oblivion isn't canon.
>>47150983
Kirkbride, you've been up for 4 days, go to sleep already.
>>47151203
Don't talk to me or my wife's son ever again.
>>47146464
I'd be down for it if it wasn't just fan theories that are retarded, and "Look at my OC donutsteel nord I played in Skyrim. He released an autobiography all about him lol."
>>47151611
I don't have any issues with that.
>>47147916
Any day under Mara, I suppose.
>>47146464
it's fucking shit, stop bringing it up
>>47149055
Nothing. Mara, sadly, isn't real, and I'm an orphan.
>>47145895
They outlawed Chameleon but not invisibility?
>>47147969
Why does he have a blade arm?
>>47151691
But Mara is real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_%28goddess%29
>>47151901
He's an Alchemist. They call him Full Chitin.
>>47150927
Elder Scrolls/Traveller crossover campaign when?
>>47151901
Insectoprosthesis.
>>47151887
Hard to outlaw something you can't see.
>>47151915
Huh, I always thought she was named after the demon in Buddhism, but that makes more sense.
Either way, the Nine Divines are not real.
>>47151921
>>47145120
But...that beans both Masser and Secunda are the same phase, all the time, which blows canon Khajiit genetics out of the water?
im in sotha sil expanded's catacombs trying to finish the main quest. where do i go, what do i do? wtf, im lost, and its super dark in here. help
>>47152019
Shh, don't worry about it. It's catmagic.
>>47152019
>not knowing how the moons work
>They are like the mortal plane in that they are temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality; in fact of this, the moons are dead and died long ago. The moons used to be pure white and featureless, but today their 'skin' is decaying and withering away. Their planes are likewise dying. Mortals perceive this as the moons being spheres with patches of their 'surfaces' completely eaten away; as the moons spin, they seem to become slivers or ragged crescents. These are not caused by shadows, because you can see stars through the black patches of the lunar spheres.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology
If you were to get a bunch of enchanted amulets and necklaces put enchanted rings though the strings, what exactly is stopping somebody from going super sayain by going into enchanting?
>>47152147
Literally.
>>47152147
It sounds expensive, and that sounds like a lot of souls. You would probably just get what you pay for.
>>47152147
Given people don't do it, I'm sure there is a practical reason people don't do it.
My answer: having too much magical shit active can be dangerously unstable.
>>47152147
You shouldn't depend on magical jewellery. Just look at Tharn.
>>47152147
The same reason nobody uses the Alchemy exploit. Probably dangerous, incredibly difficult to pull off, expensive, and if you did do it, you probably would still be weak in other ways, like if somebody were to simply yank it all off.
also
>>47152194
Still it would be interesting to see.
>>47150983
Why not? It's not near as bad as Skyrim.
>>47150617
Am I the only one that regrets having to force the Tribunal towards their death?
I know they were corrupt, false gods, and it's not like I could've changed Almalexia's mind anyway, but they had done good for Morrowind. They had lead them through crisis after crisis for thousands of years. It's less even a moral thing, as much as I don't want to do away with something so, in the old sense of the word, awful and awesome. They are not my gods, but I cannot help but respect them and all their vastness.
>>47152147
I'd like to think the magnitude of each effect begins to be less prominent as you put on more and more enchanted jewelry. So you'd end up wearing hundreds of thousands of drakes worth of shit but actually just be moderately better at everything
>>47152458
I would never forgive them the things they've done to Veloth.
>>47152458
But the dunmer were always terrible and didn't deserve to be spared from the crises which befell them. Hell, they even started to become not quite so terrible people in the decades immediately after the tribunal died. At least until Vivec's meteor fell down and a billion lizards invaded
>>47152505
What?
Dunmer were always the least bad of the mer.
Is shadow magic the most powerful school in TES universe?Is it the most edgy school in TES universe?
>>47153288
Bosmer?
>>47153425
Possibly.
Yes. Tied with Necromancy.
>>47153425
tonal magicand that weird vampire molag bal blood magic shit is p edgy
>>47153288
You're thinking of Falmer.
>>47153431
The Dindus of Tamriel?
Literal Kender.
>>47153431
Remember protein farts? Even ignoring the reputation they've gotten in the community, they have no real unity, and they only are growing more and more insular.
>>47153431
they're cannibals, thieves, and they fuck animals
Worse than Goblins desu
>>47153455
Tonal magic is cheating and you know itisn't this just some variation of destrucion?
>>47153495
REMOVE BOSMER
>>47153545
>>47153495
>>47153480
>>47153469
Poor monsters...
>>47153469
Khajiit are kender, Bosmer are more like hood rats. Proud of their thieving skills, but know it's wrong and would be upset if some stole their shit.
>>47154000
No, Khajiit aren't kender. Kender don't see anything wrong with their stealing, and refuse to even consider it such, and expect everyone to be okay with what they do.
Khajiit know that they're stealing, but appreciate the cleverness and skill of it. They're fun loving, but not in the stupid autistic way that kender are, running off into danger and causing problems without a thought. They actually have a head on their shoulders.
I don't think Bosmer are even all that theif-y. They're more like traditional wood elves - archers and skirmishers. Maybe kind of like gangsters.
>>47154000
>>47154052
>Khajiit know that they're stealing, but appreciate the cleverness and skill of it.
That isn't to say that theft itself is necessarily encouraged or appreciated, in fact it's very much not so, but thievery is nevertheless recognized as a craft. In fact, if thievery wasn't illegal, didn't require skill and subterfuge, and wasn't punished, it would not be a clever craft.
They do have a distinction between stealing and just taking, and that distinction is very important.
I'd also argue that when the Khajiit venerate Rajhin, it's not so much the famous theft that's the point of the worship, but rather the immense skill behind it. The "Dar" prefix is said to mean thief, but it's really mostly signifying this person's cleverness, like a Nord being called Clever Hudvar or a Breton being called Arnand the Fox. It doesn't even have to be cleverness in terms of wit, but can just be someone who's clever with his hands. A renowned carpenter could probably be "Dar", not because he's a thief, but because he's so immensely skilled.
>>47154511
Dar does literally mean thief or clever, so you have a good point there.
A good way of recognizing the distinction is with the minor god Baan Dar. Most places consider him a thief, but "In Elsweyr he is more important, and is regarded as the Pariah. In this aspect, Baan Dar becomes the cleverness or desperate genius of the long-suffering Khajiiti, whose last minute plans always upset the machinations of their Mer (or Human) enemies."
Also goddamn that webm give strange feelings. Especially knowing that with enough licking, a cheetah's tongue is rough enough to cause you skin to bleed.
>>47154702
>strange feelings
When my cat does that kind of stuff, it's a tossup if she's gonna claw my face or not
Can't imagine a cheetah smack being fun
>>47154052
No, in Morrowind, I distinctly remember that Bosmeri bitch who stole those scrolls in the mages guild being smug and saying that it proves the Bosmer are better thieves than Khajiit, and implying that it's something Bosmer are proud of.
>>47154702
>Dar does literally mean thief or clever, so you have a good point there.
It's even more obvious when you see how Jobasha explains it:
>A Khajiit with "Dar" in his name is clever, and maybe clever with his hands, but not always a thief by your odd Imperial property customs.
The role of thief just appears to be if not synonymous, then at least symbolically representing cleverness. Much like in a lot of real world fables, certain animals are always given the same characteristics, the Khajiit seem to do that with thiefs (and possibly other professions?). Like how I can call something a mule, which can either mean that it's an actual mule, or just that it's stubborn.
Also Cheetas are confirmed forlewdcats.
>>47154928
Sounds like a bad case of Bosmeri Inferiority Complex.
>>47154511
>tfw no special friend.
>>47154956
The men are ugly merlets with tiny dicks, and the women smell like protein farts and cant even use leaves to wipe.
You'd be upset about being alive, too.
>>47154928
That's literally just mage apprentices being mage apprentices. Ranis says she did the same shit when she was younger.
She could have been a nord for all it matters.
>>47155022
I never do that
>>47155022
You're missing the point.
She flat out brags about how Bosmer are better thieves and acts proud about it.
>>47154928
It's probably more a part of being better than Khajiit - they are traditional enemies, after all.
>>47154935
It's odd how I can't think of many other symbolic things like that in Tamriel. Best I can think of his how for the Nords, wolves are sacred because of their relation to Sai, the god of Luck, and bears seem to be a symbol of strength.
There are cuter big cats out there. Cougars especially.
>>47155049
And you're missing the point.
She would have just said "dunmer are better thieves than khajiit" and be proud of it too.
>>47155073
Are you seriously trying to imply that thievery isn't a part of Bosmeri culture? What makes you go to the conclusion that they view being a better thief as being despicable or that they aren't more prone to it than other races?
>>47155057
>This should prove once and for all that the Bosmer are better thieves than the Khajiit.
I think it's pretty straight forward.
>>47153288
By virtue of enslaving beastkin instead of men and not trying to destroy reality. Not exactly a high bar.
>>47155073Hlaalu are really good thieves, and would be proud of it regardless. A Nord would normally favor direct things like mugging or piracy if they were committing a crime.
>>47155125
>Are you seriously trying to imply that thievery isn't a part of Bosmeri culture?
I literally don't care.
Her actions as a mage guild apprentice were confirmed as mage guild apprentice actions by a dunmer. Her being a bosmer was irrelevant.
>>47155125
I think the 'than the Khajiit' is really the important part there. There's not much in the lore to support the idea that they see banditry as a skill - one of the major points I've found makes it sound like something they do when they can't trade for the goods they rely on from other provinces.
>>47155177
It has to part of their culture in some way, shape, or form, considering they get a bonus to it.
The average Bosmer in Valenwood probably isn't a cat-burglar, but perhaps they prefer mischief and pulling pranks on friends, or they like feats of sleight of hand.
Either way, what is confirmed is pickpockets and thugs are everywhere in Valenwood, as indicated in A Dance in Fire.
>>47155159
Cool, if you don't care about lore or don't want to discuss it, this is the perfect thread to be in.
>>47155304
The "culture" isn't a factor here, same acts were done by a dunmer making the "culture" of bosmer irrelevant.
Go be retarded somewhere else.
>>47155281
>It has to part of their culture in some way, shape, or form, considering they get a bonus to it.
Making an argument from stats is really weak. Why do Redguards have a bonus in blunt weapons? Why are Argonians good at illusion?
It's better to just try to find some text sources.
>>47155281
But a Dance in Fire is fiction, even in universe. We can't quite trust it.
The bonus part might because they are slanted towards archery, which is generally a stealth skill. Why are Bretons only possessing bonuses to mage skills, despite the lore painting them as having plenty of knights and battlemages?
>>47155453
>which is generally a stealth skill
(one of my least favorite aspects of TES in general. Archery is not sneaky)
>Why are Bretons only possessing bonuses to mage skills, despite the lore painting them as having plenty of knights and battlemages?
Bretons have naturally higher than normal magical attunement thanks to their ancestry. However, not to the level of say, the altmer, and additionally they lack the historical knowledge and culture of extremely powerful magic users that benefits some of their purely elvish cousins. In other words, their magic isn't good enough to carry them in a dangerous world alone. Additionally, they aren't BAD at swords and shit, and their magical resistance makes an armored Breton exceptionally difficult to kill, even if he is only moderately well prepared in any particular way to kill you.
>>47155453
But we don't really need imperial fantasy fiction as source for bosmeri thieving antics. I remember there being tons of dialogue in Morrowind that made it pretty clear thievery is part of Bosmeri culture and that one should never relax his pockets around them.
>>47155359
Not him, but a lot of swrd techniques carry over to other weapons. Probably why they also get a bonus to axe.
>>47155576
That could be just general racism - it is Morrowind, after all. I don't remember them being regarded as thieves.
There's a bit of lore about the Rite of Theft, but all of that is sourced from ESO.
>>47155453
Fiction isn't just something pulled out of the aether.
We learn the actual capabilities of Restoration from a book labelled as historical fiction. Doesn't mean the laws or descriptions of magic are made up.
>>47155619
Sure, maybe, but it's still not really strong proof for anything in particular. I'm just pointing out that you'd really want to avoid trying to derive lore from racial stats.
>>47155647
They tend to be considered thieves in other cultures. At least in Daggerfall they are portrayed that way.
>>47155723
Especially given that the races and classes are designed in such a way that, in terms of attribute and skill points, they're all exactly balanced. It'd be like trying to divine information from a character about their exact statistical skills even though they probably just picked a class that was good at the two or three things the character needed to have to be decent in combat
>>47155647
Pretty sure there was Imperial dialogue (probably guards, but can't remember that well) implying them being thieves and Imperials are as multicultural as it gets.
This would be good thing to check out if someone is crazy enough to fire up the construction set and look through tons of dialogue.
Think of your least favorite Elder Scrolls game. Now try to find one redeeming part about it or the lore it brings to the table.
>>47156736
I suppose Arena did provide the framework.
>>47156736
I absolutely hated the game with a passion, but The Lusty Argonian Maid is possibly the single most important book in the series, if not just for my nord stealth archer to always have in her inventory.
>>47156736
My least favorite ES game that I've actually played is Morrowind. It's not like it was bad, it was just way clunkier and cruder than what came after.
>>47156736
it established the difference between daedra atronachs and golem atronachs, thank you battlespire
>>47151887
Well you can't attack anyone while invisible without turning visible. If you have 100% chameleon, you'd be completely invisible and can do whatever you want.
>>47156984
I'm surprised you haven't been skinned alive yet.
>>47150933
No wonder they got rid of mysticism. It's shit.
>>47151972
You're not real.
>>47157585
What, are you trying to make zero sum? That's not goi-
>>47157477
To be fair, he's not exactly wrong about it being clunkier.
>new weapon type, time to spend 10 minutes trying to kill a single rat
>shield just sort of sits there occasionally doing something if the rng likes you
>needing to skillgrind to not be ass slow
Heck of a world, and the later titles went too heavy on the streamlining, but it was hardly flawless.
>>47157561
YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU DOUBLE N'WAH!
>>47155569
Archery is a warrior skill in skyrim, even though the thief stone stole it from the warrior stone.
>>47156796
>stealth archer
Of course.
>>47157736
That's why you bother training and customizing your character. If you want an Orc Thief, that's fine, but the game would be a whole lot easier if you used an axe instead of a dagger.
>>47157804
That's the joke, anon.
>>47157561
No you're shit.
I'll admit, Mysticism was a very, very vague school. But that was what made it so useful - all sorts of fairly useful supportive spells and spells crucial to enchanting and protection. It was a grab-bag you could potentially throw any magical spell into, and left a lot of room for creativity.
But without it, all of its spells are spread out over a bunch of different schools. Instead of having one school you could level up to make use of those spells, now you have to spread yourself out among several different schools.
>>47157741
Really though, a school whose only thing is "its vague and undefinable" is both boring and stupid. Boring because that means it's just "everything else" that they couldn't categorize, and stupid because if it's a non category it would make mores sense to classify it's spells in the closest most fitting schools.
Really, sell me on mysticism as a school of magic.
>>47157849
So you liked it for gameplay convenience. Sounds like it was way too broad and epitomizes what causes "caster dominance" in other things. Good riddance.
With its spells spread out, it doesn't mean you have to spread yourself thin. It means you gotta actually make choices instead of having everything.
>>47157916
>any magic other than restoration and conjuration being at all viable
>ESPECIALLY in skyrim
>>47157856
It's magic that effect's magic and magic effects itself. Also, of all the schools of magic, Mysticism has the most lore about it, and is by far the most understood paradoxically.
Ever played a mage in Skyrim? Without dispell, absorption, Resist spells, and things like Mark and Recall, magic just feels bland, like there's no tactical thought to it, or any reason to use it outside of combat. At most, there's either ward or fireball, maybe summon something before then.
Thank goodness they just changed things like telekinesis or detect life into Alteration or Conjuration, because I actually liked those spells the most.
>>47157856
Mysticism isn't just 'vague and undefinable.' It's more the manipulation of magic itself, which is why it had spells like Reflect, Spell Absorption, Dispel, Detect Life and Magic and even Keys. As the UESP puts it, "The spells in the school can be divided into five main sections: transport spells, detection spells, absorption spells, reflection spells and 'other.' " That's a lot more than just 'everything else.'
Now you might say that it's all well and good to put those in more 'fitting' schools, but most schools don't actually deal with the manipulation of magic itself, just using magicka for a certain purpose - altering the world, destroying things, ect. And if you look at Skyrim, there are a lot less spells than there used to be in even Oblivion - there's no more Reflect, no more Spell Absorption, Detect spells got narrowed down to Life and Undead, and no more Mark or Recall like in Morrowind.
The point I'm essentially driving at, if I'm not being clear, is that when you don't have a school like Mysticism, you don't have a place to put all those sorts of spells to do with most detection spells or spells that reflect damage or magic or include basically teleportation or telekinesis. And even with what's little is left, it's been changed drastically - no wonder no one ever tried to mod Mysticism back in.
>>47157916
>Muh caster dominance.
>Quick let's make magic even more shit, that way we don't have to improve other forms of combat.
You are aware why being a stealth archer is a meme right? Because it's stupidly overpowered, and everyone ends up one because the only thing worse than playing a warrior in Skyim is playing a mage.
>>47157916
>Le Caster Dominance meme
>>47157955
Restoration is for babies who can't resist sticking it on every single character they make. Illusion is OP.
Now, to keep this on lore, what's the deal with restoration having turn undead spells and sun magic? It could have been unique and focused on restoration things, but seems like it's just generic "dnd cleric" magic for no reason.
>>47158093
>meme
Wait, where are you peopling get the "it's impossible to play as a destruction Mage" thing from? And what's wrong with going melee? I rarely ever used archery, except the few times I decided to make a character especially for it.
Wait. Is this another one of those things where people spend making a. OP character, then complain about how hard it is to use something else?
>>47158024
To add some clarification to that last point of mine, a lot of the magical effects that you had seen in Morrowind or even Oblivion simply don't exist in Skyrim. There's nothing to reflect damage, either from spells or physical attacks. There's stuff like Oakflesh instead of Shield - a subtle but critical difference - and with three stats, you can't really Absorb Attributes or Skills. And when magic is literally held in your hand, and almost no negative magical effects linger for long, why would you ever need Dispel?
I'm not saying Mysticism is the only school to suffer in this regard - I miss being able to break the armor and weapons of my enemies, and I think Silence is totally gone too.
>>47158198
Because restoration is about healing, protecting, and generally life. Undead are caused by disease, bad Mojo, bad magic, and taint. Make sense?
>>47158005
>>47158024
Those things are cool, and skyrim did gut magic hard. But instead of having most schools be super narrow and one super broad, it would be more interesting if each school covered more ground.
Too bad it's "destruction" when it's more fitting as "elementalism." Then resist element spells would fit well there.
Alteration ate a lot of those spells.
>>47158232
Play a destruction mage on legendary without mods, and you'll see why.
>>47158232
Which game? Because being a destruction mage in morrowind is suffering for hours before obtaining decent power.
>>47158244
Silence is still in game! It's a enchantment, theses also muffle, which is the same thing, but a spell.
>>47158269
Isn't raising the dead life magic?
>>47158318
I have, and it's just as hard as everything else, not counting stealth archery, which is of course, overpowered as all hell.
>>47158198
>>47158269
Restoration is about the body and it's functions and attributes.
Most likely they either realized how underpowered it is and tried to remedy it, or they wanted to make some "holy" spells, and decided that restoration was underpowered and needed spells or just went with it for the paladin archetype.
In all reality, those holy spells should either be under Conjuration.
>>47158318
>legendary
>adjusting Bethesda's patented artificial difficulty technology
>>47158373
No, scale onto that how mage armor is shit, and how most duels with other mages is holding down dual cast lighting while pausing for more magicka and health potions for a minute or two, and you see why people don't like playing mages in Skyrim when they could be playing a stealth archer.
>>47158371
No, raising the dead is ripping the soul of a person, sometimes not even the same one, and shoving it in a body. I'm not entirely sure about how skeletons fit into it. Draugur aren't truly dead, but they're kept alive due to dragon ass-magic, which is going against the God of Death.
>I know the lore better than the people who write it
this thread in a nutshell
>>47158428
Why the fuck are you using Mage armor if it's shit then? Just throw on normal armor, or learn to dodge. And a fight between to mages plays out the same way in the others games. Except that's not even true, because you could be casting explosive runes for traps, or hitting your enemy with first so it's easier to hit him.
>>47158428
Stealth archery is boring as all hell though. I can't believe the nerds who say it's "satisfying."
>>47158458
What else would the thread be about?
>>47158428
It is really the fact that you have to rely so heavily on potions that kills Skyrim combat for me - and I don't even end up using a lot of my potions beyond healing, magicka and sometimes stamina.
Level scaling sounds great in theory, but in practice it means that aside from some enemies whose levels cap, there's never going to be an easy fight. You'll always have to pause and down a few potions before continuing, especially if you don't specialize pretty heavily. It also doesn't help that a lot of enemies are meant for melee combat, not for fighting at a range, and it can be difficult for a mage to ready his Stoneflesh and his Lightning Cloak or whatever before an enemy gets close and starts hitting him.
I always hated how people only view Arkay as the god of death, and ignore that he's also the god of life and birth.
It seems that people view life and death as opposites, when death is merely a part of life like how birth is. Which was the point of making it all under one god, who symbol is cyclical.
I wish there would be something in the next game about priests of Arkay not just being grave diggers. Maybe have one show up at births to bless the baby with a long healthy life or something.
>>47158374
That makes sense then. If the body is being sustained by magic/pure force of will, it makes sense that you can drive the stuff away with natural magic.
Though you are right, it would have fit better in conjuration. Except the Stendar magic. That's in restoration because you're dealing with vampires.
>>47158502
I've managed to do well without potions, but then I went out of my way to make an alchemist and it just killed my immersion.
How does one even chug down two potions in a heated melee combat?
>>47158523
I think the point if emphasizing the "death" aspect of arkay is to put them in particular at odds with necromancers. Presumably priests of arkay would also be at odds with abortion, but that doesn't seem to be a particularly common occurrence, at least in the current era.
>>47158502
Yeah, it can be potion heavy, but there is ways around that! Enchanting can give you very nice boosts to both health regen and Magic regen.
Also, all of the enemy types have a level cap! Go look it up! Most of them level out around level 35-45. The exceptions being draug, dragons, and the very occasional Mage.
>>47158525
Stendar shouldn't even be dealing with vampire in particular. He's the god of Mercy, if anything it would make more sense if a knight of Arkay showed up and stopped the abomination against life and death.
Either way, It always been focused on the bodily attributes. If you want to drive away the magical tethers to a daedric lord, that sounds more like mysticism or maybe conjuration if they don't have mysticism. It also doesn't make sense that restoration doesn't effect vampires anymore when it worked just fine in all the other games.
>>47158523
Don't forget that he has some seasonal aspects too. Though in Skyrim, Falkreath was almost always gloomy, that could be considered showing how Arkay has some control over seasonal weather. And it would've made more sense for Falkreath to have some life and cheer to it to balance against the huge graveyard.
>>47158559
You just go to the item screen and drink the potions. In every Elder Scrolls game (as far as I know), opening the inventory is like pausing, giving you plenty of time to take a drink.
>>47158588
Is there even enough unique content to get to level 35 without grinding random caves and ruins
>>47158559
That is one of the things that I did have grievances with. Discounting the meme of slamming down fourth cheese rolls, which is possible, but you're not actually going to do that unless you're a hoarder. Chugging down potion after potion, or just swapping weapons in and out of existence while still being paused is silly, but something a lot of games do.
>>47158598
>You just go to the item screen and drink the potions.
He meant, how is the character doing it. He understands the action the player must take to use a potion, dummy.
>>47158598
>>47158559
Hotkeys, you scrubs.But yeah, it is sort of immersion breaking. I like to imagine my character dodges and gives himself some space before he rips off the cork and chugs for a half second.
>>47158596
It can actually, but you need a specific spell to be able to heal undead, which makes sense because they're not really the same type of living. Also, you're acting like Stendar's only shitck is mercy. And even then, wouldn't it be a 'mercy' to put vampires out of their misery?
>>47158588
Don't Draugr make up the major portion of enemies you face? Only mage I know of that goes to 45 is Ochendor.
And even then, as the other anon pointed out, do I really want to keep playing that long? I've managed to make it to 35ish, but I haven't even started any of the major questlines. Nothing really draws me in, aside from random quests and dungeon crawls.
I'll admit I never did do much with enchanting. I mostly focused on blacksmithing, and now I have to make sure I still stay effective at combat on top of other skills.
>>47158614
For all it's reputation, I'd say Skyrim has it's memorable dungeons. I remember the dungeon that starts with the non hostile blind man reading a book with no words, I remember the lighthouse that was taken over by Chaurus in the basement, and I remember the cave with the mammoth hunters who were trying to get rich by transmuting iron to gold.
>>47158614
There is actually! In fact, there's far more then enough! if you were to actually spend the time going to say, every where in falkreath, you'd probably hit around level twenty.
>>47158718
I agree that skyrim has some good dungeons but level 35, what the fuck
>>47158729
Todd Howard please go
>>47158673
Not for the vampire really. In fact they quite like the undeath they have.
Also, it may not be they only thing he does, but it's his sphere of influence. I'm sure a scholar of Julianos would dislike the undead, but I'm much rather see him teaching the poor to read than wandering around killing daedra, the same way I'd rather see the worshipers of the god of mercy being healers like they have been in all the other games.
>>47158700
Well, and I don't mean this offensively, that is only partially the games fault. It doesn't account for personal taste, and it could just be that you prefer exploring!
And contrary to memes, every single dungeon in skyrim is unique. Not a single one of them is even close to a duplicate of a different one! If you pay attention to detail a lot of them have their own little story to tell.
>>47158780
>Not for the vampire really. In fact they quite like the undeath they have.
Some vampires do. But those that don't manage to succeed in becoming pros at getting blood, lose their fucking minds.
>>47158780
That was something that almost didn't make sense to me, but the vigilant of Stendar going around hunting unnatural creatures make sense if you think about how a lot of real world religions had similar "warrior priests", plus they're proving a mercy to the people that would be killed by those beasts.
I'll admit the vampire mercy thing was just a bad joke on my part.
>>47158817
TODD HOWARD
PLEASE GO
Yes, we know that every dungeon has its unique arrangement of the dungeon lego brick rooms and hallways, but that's not the same thing as those dungeons being actually unique experiences. And I'm not saying there aren't a lot of good interesting dungeons in skyrim but they certainly aren't the majority, especially when you discount those related to quests.
>>47150774
Fyr Manor is the big domed building, right next to the storage house. Hard to miss it since it's the only gated house in the entire city.
>>47158700
Draugr are about 75% of 1/3 of the dungeons actually. There's still a lot of them, and nordic tombs in general suck. Such a boring tileset.
>>47158817
That is true, and in general I don't tend to join many factions even in games like Morrowind. And I've enjoyed Skyrim's dungeon design overall - it does get repetitive at times and blur together, but it's had some fun moments and it's overall better than Oblivion and its grey grey grey.
But I still think they could've done more with dungeons. Maybe draugr breaking through into an old dwarf stronghold. There was a bandit fort with a wolf-fighting ring - why not have that actually be a spot where you could bet, or have mini-arena fights?
>>47158874
Oi, there isn't any "Lego brick" quilters to the dungeons at all, almost all of them have unique decoration, and none of them have "repeat the previous room" scheme. There is reuse of models, but literally every game does that.
You know what game does do the copy pasted dungeons though? Fucking oblivion. Oblivion was ten times worse about that.
>>47158024
>As the UESP puts it, "The spells in the school can be divided into five main sections: transport spells, detection spells, absorption spells, reflection spells and 'other.' " That's a lot more than just 'everything else.'
Being able to divide a school into five unrelated categories, one of which is "other," is not a great sign. Morrowind Destruction could be divided into, what, damage to resources, damage to attributes, damage to skills, damage to items, and weakness to damage? There's kind of a common thread there. Restoration was restoring and fortifying most of those things, Conjuration was summoning critters or gear. Alteration and Illusion were wonkier, but still more coherent than Mysticism.
>The point I'm essentially driving at, if I'm not being clear, is that when you don't have a school like Mysticism, you don't have a place to put all those sorts of spells to do with most detection spells or spells that reflect damage or magic or include basically teleportation or telekinesis. And even with what's little is left, it's been changed drastically - no wonder no one ever tried to mod Mysticism back in.
I don't think they were cut because there was no place to put them. I think they were cut because they seemed problematic or unnecessary.
Spell Reflect is a perfect example: It's a wonky fucking effect. When do you use it? Always, if your enemy's using spells. What does it do? Tell them to stop hitting themselves. What is the net effect on the fight? A rapidly, RAPIDLY scaling power swing in your favor. It's just not a good effect unless you mess with it and/or the AI so that it's something more complex than "lol casters."
>>47158931
Ah, the draug don't actually do any mining, but there are places where bandits are raiding or accidentally mined into Dwarven strong holds. There's also ones where they're attacking Falmer, or Falmer have mined/attacked bandit camps and adventures.
>>47158940
Skyrim uses literally the same method of dungeon construction as oblivion. In some ways better, namely that they had more lego brick rooms, and in some ways worse, namely that every fucking one of them uses the stupid "go around the dungeon and fight the boss and then open the secret exit/one way door back back to the entrance" scheme.
Also, just so you know I'm not shitting about knowing stuff about skyrim, here's my playtime...
Yes, yes I have no life. No need to tell me.
>>47159019
To be fair, so did Oblivion.
But yes, everything uses modular level design. It's pretty much what you have to do if you're making a game with all those interiors and of that size.
>>47158959
But those five main sections can be grouped in under the idea of the manipulation of magic itself. Another way it's been explained is:
>The art has been described as allowing a mage "to alter the nature of magic itself" and as involving "the manipulation of magical forces and boundaries to bypass the structures and limitations of the physical world."
So while you can't quite summarize it as succinctly as 'damaging things,' there is a general overall grouping.
You have a point with Spell Reflect, but I think that could've been fixed if they added a little randomness in there - maybe a fifty-[percent change that it would either block and reflect damage, or block but not reflect damage. Or you could treat it more like a Ward. And what about all the detection spells? What about Shield (which was technically also a Mysticism spell in Morrowind), which simply took off a percentage of damage done to you? And sometimes it does suck not being able to dispel, just for the sake of getting rid of a summoned daedra or ending a cloak effect.
>>47159120
>To be fair, so did Oblivion.
Yeah, but it seemed a lot less common then. I guess maybe back tracking or coming out the other end doesn't play test as well but it makes a lot more sense.
>>47159120
Oblivion did have it too, but some dungeons you did have to backtrack through because there wasn't an easy door out. And there was certainly never anything like a door outside of the dungeon right after the boss room.
>>47159319
>a lot less common
it was still really common. Most ayelid ruins had it.
All Oblivion gates had it by virtue of the sigil stone.
>>47159198
>But those five main sections can be grouped in under the idea of the manipulation of magic itself.
Not really, and certainly quite a bit worse than Alteration could make the same claim.
Teleportation isn't "manipulating the nature of magic," it's yanking you to an existing point of power or setting a personal point of power. Mark you could make a case for, but Recall/Intervention has no explanation that isn't really weird or getting muddied with Conjuration.
Detection has the same issue, especially Detect Key. Detect Enchantment you can make a case for, Detect Life works if life energy is magical and you don't mind getting mixed into Restoration, but Detect Key has nothing whatsoever to do with anything magical. Even the cases it does work for render it kind of adjacent rather than directly applicable, because you're altering yourself, not the things you're looking at.
Absorption kind of works, but again crosses over with Restoration in assuming that skill with long blades is in some way magical and adjustable. Spell and possibly Magicka Absorption are the obvious exceptions, because they actually affect magic.
Reflection works really well, because it's the only full category that actually has anything to do with "altering the nature of magic." It creates a shield that bounces magic back to its source. That's pretty magic-affecting, unlike almost everything else on that list.
"Other" is a pretty damning category for "affecting the nature of magic." Dispel works well from it, Soul Trap can work if we assume souls are magic (which Enchanting seems to back up, so I guess) and we don't mind a possible intersection with Resoration or Enchanting again. Telekinesis doesn't work unless we're talking about using raw magic to accomplish its effects, at which point we're crossing over with Alteration and, frankly, every other use of magic whatsoever.
This comment is now too long, because I am a nerd.
>>47159457
The horrible thing about the Daggerfall dungeons was not that one was obliged to go mad, but that it was impossible to avoid doing so. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.
