>mage 2e announcement
http://theonyxpath.com/may-the-fourth-be-with-you-mage-the-awakening/
>Previous Thread: >>47029472
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/mByuG93b
>question
Do you modify the other gamelines do suit the one your playing, like
>Vampires are wyrm tainted Camazotz
All characters should be black, arab or woman and obviously they must not be straight
>>47044992
>Do you modify the other gamelines do suit the one your playing
Yeah, I fill all my games with gays and black women so that when Mages show up they feel at home
>>47045033
All is a step too far. But if your game doesn't at least have gay werewolves, it's shit.
>>47045033
As long as the women have huge knockers I don't care what color their skin is.
>>47045033
I mean, I'm strongly considering a game set in Egypt during the Arab Spring, and my main Mage idea is one set during 1960s American and thus likely including a lot of racial tensions, so...
>>47045054
>werewolves
Here, have a superior supernatural.
>>47045098
>vampires superior to werewolves
enjoy your pale lonely nights with people who only like you because you drugged them
Fuck, i forgot the title.
>>47045033
>obviously they must not be straight
Of course not. How else would we know it's the Chronicles of Fagness?
>>47045085
eh for me its either whites or Asians. Though I am also a boobman.
Pic is related as it is a vampire.
>>47044992
>Do you modify the other gamelines do suit the one your playing
Absolutely. It's what makes Hunter the Vigil the best gameline, IMO. I especially love it when I get to remind my players that everything they know from the other games is meaningless here.
>>47044826
Remembering that the guy casting fireballs was actually using explosives is a pretty big drawback. Adding that the hunters would suffer breaking points by simply trying to remember the "truth" is already bad.
>>47045171
Well, the picture's got the title in it so it's not like it's hard to miss.
Unknown Armies books did minorities so much better it's not even funny. Guess it comes with Stolze and Tynes being actual writers who know how to make a character. Look at The Freak in Godwalker: hermaphroditic nonbinary WHO IS THE DIVINE AVATAR OF GENDER TRANSGRESSION, and it comes out as deep, sympathetic, complex and interesting.
It takes more than just slapping together three tokens you haven't used yet and pulling a foreign sounding name out of BabyNames.com.
>>47045375
I'm glad we agree that characters who get entire novels about them have more depth and character than a 100-150 word character example in a splat entry.
Of course the irony is that people tried to stir up the same kind of shit we've got now with Unknown Armies 3e and it didn't work, so the new tactic is to move the goalposts.
>>47045375
Textbook special snowflake.
>>47045375
>It takes more than just slapping together three tokens you haven't used yet and pulling a foreign sounding name out of BabyNames.com.
One of the playtesters is named Lathouras, another is Magkakis. It seems unfair to blame you people you know nothing about for being close-minded when you refuse to acknowledge them having a life.
>>47045375
If you're interested in RPG sourcebooks that do minorities justice, I can't recommend anything by Vajra Enterprises hard enough (especially Fates Worse Than Death). Brian King actually has a policy where he tells artists no single character they draw is allowed to be more than 2 of white, male, straight and attractive, and the fiction is filled to the brim with members of every religion, sexuality and race - and they still manage to remain interesting characters because it's clear that they weren't created around representing a minority. Hell, the THEME of In Dark Alleys is literally "unpopular philosophies are magic", and you got characters who draw superpowers from how gender transgressive they are, or from self-mutilation and cannibalism - and it still manages to do it better.
>>47042614
Was making fun last thread of the terrible use of Practices, and the I see:
Alter Conductivity (Matter 3)
Practice: Ruling
Awesome, can't even tell if the mistake it's the rating or the practice.
>>47045528
The Freak was more sympathetic than any of the poster Muslims in recent CofD books even back when nobody knew what it looked like and all there was on it in the core book was a single paragraph coming down "it will fuck you up". I'd rather be intrigued by a character like that than have hermaphroditism shoved in my face to show me how tolerant the writer is.
>>47045586
Practice.
Altering something's conductivity is a textbook Matter Weaving.
Forces Ruling could achieve a similar result, by just forcing the electricity through/away from the substance, but Matter has to transform that property of the substance.
And yeah, the most egregious one for me is Spirit Summons being a 3-dot Weaving spell, which is all kinds of fucking stupid.
>>47045626
>than any of the poster Muslims in recent CofD books
like who?
>>47045661
The Ichneumon we just talked about. A character whose sole recognizable trait is that she wears a hijab (despite the existence of a painfully bloated yet generic and uninformative description). The narrator from that awful Beast fiction piece whose characterization consisted of half a page of "I'M GAY AND BY GOD, WILL I GET AT THOSE STRAIGHTS!". Half the sample relationships from Requiem, whose descriptions were written as clunkily as needed to possibly include the use of a pronoun that'll show how LGBT they are.
Is the Egyptian guy still here?
>>47045586
That's very clearly a Weaving spell. It's changing a trait of the substance (namely, how well it conducts electricity).
>>47045765
So she wears a hijab? That makes her a shallow Muslim?
Who do you post as on the forums?
Y'know, there is a troubling lack of differently abled or nonthin characters in the book. As a cane-using, obese man, I feel pretty marginalized. Gotta give it to you, this right here's problematic. 'fraid I'm gonna have to call intolerance on this one.
>>47045586
>>47045628
Don't forget to submit the errata on the OP forums.
>>47045825
great b8, amy
>>47045820
When the only things I can possibly know about her is that she was born in Mogadishu, is Silver Ladder and wears a hijab, than yes, I'm going to assume she's Muslim and for all I've been told she is shallow. Robin Laws created lifestories in five lines in Over the Edge. That you choose to spend however many words you've decided to dedicate to her biography waxing poetic on the things she's seen rather than whom she might be, this is what you end up with.
Is it just me, or has Tokyo appeared as a sample city in every CofD core book so far?
In Mage 2e, artifacts are no longer automatically recharging mana batteries.
I imagine that many powergamers will not be pleased.
>>47046127
It's not you, and it's intentional.
>>47046127
All except for Demon.
It's intentional, and all have been written by David Hill, a resident of Japan.
>>47046139
Great, they're reviving Year of the Lotus.
>>47046139
we want the weeb audience
>>47046152
>Davido Hirru, a resident of Japan.
FTFY
>>47046157
Only the homosexuals, though.
>>47046182
and the yoai fangirls
>>47046171
I'm fortunate enough that my first name is so simple for the Japanese to pronounce that back when I was there, I never got asked about my surname. They would've broken their crooked teeth over it.
>Section on Path Gnosis
>Mastigos see the darkness. They see the stains and sins within every soul, lingering inside every mind. They understand motivations, and they can sense the selfishness all around them. Almost nobody is clean and pure. This typically results in a certain amount of cynicism in potent Mastigos. After all, what’s the sense in saving the world, when it’s full of such terrible people?
So Mastigos are Edgy Teenagers and nobody in the Chronicles of Darkness has any good in them.
Got it.
>>47045554
Vajra also made Hoodoo Blues, AKA "Magic Black Man: The Game". It was astonishingly reasonable in terms of racial themes. Blacks, whites and native Americans all got their share of respect, admiration, acknowledgment of their crimes and flaws, and a detailed examination of their beliefs. Yes, the focus was on black folklore, but the entire American South got explored. Funnily enough, if there's anyone that the book regularly beat on, it's the Yankees.
>>47046345
Nigga, any game in which the first step in character creation is describing the essence of their personality using a genre of Southern music is fine by me.
Is that Dorian Pavus on page 312?
>>47046319
>Almost nobody
So you can't read. Got it.
>Ranieri completed the Infrastructure
See you on the other side fellas
>>47046200
Joe Katzenellenbogen?
>I’ll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it. –Alan Moore
I was already planning on buying it, but it's now a day-1 buy. I don't have the pic with me atm, but thanks Dave.
>>47044992
You forgot to link Mage2e
https://mega.nz/#!B4US0aqZ!ZfMiO0LX9FP2pRWGMJKmosYd8PJiChPGx3ZJLKUJZs8
>>47045375
Unknown Armies doesn't do anything better. It's a game where they go "what's subtlety?" and literally every character is a hyper obsessive weirdo.
Plus, >>47045528
If we're really going to bring that last threads' arguments with Status Quo Warriors back, then fuck it.
https://youtu.be/-r51IZ2qiq4
Can someone post Dave's guide to Consillium setup?
I thought I had it saved, but apparently not
>>47046632
>Alan Moore
>Not John Constantine
>>47046668
>Every character is a hyper obsessive weirdo
>In a game about hyper obsessive weirdos
What a world, ain't it?
Also
>Arcana past the Path Realm limits are now limited to Normal Experiences instead of Arcane Experiences
Any reason for this change? I feel like it even further disincentivizes "wasting" your XP on non-magical stuff.
>>47045892
But that's literally all of the other ones as well. It tells a bit about where they came from and what Order they're in. And all of that is more info than "will fuck you up".
>>47045825
Check the Ghost Wolf art.
>>47046319
Why would any of that write up not be a logical conclusion of the setting? Even most people musing over ethics agree that every person can be shitty sometimes.
>>47046693
Yeah, I expected to read John as the Author, but they put Alan instead.
>>47046681
Nevermind, found it in the archives
>>47046744
>But that's literally all of the other ones as well.
I didn't say the other ones were well-written. We were just discussing this particular instance of it.
>>47046748
wouldnt Joh be more of a Hedge Mage though? He relies mostly on rituals and occult knowledge rather then will powered reality altering spells.
>>47046693
So, I've finished reading Mind, going to Prime, but so far it seems that the "example spells are badly written, look them over twice" rule of thumb is just as useful now as it was in 2e.
The more things change....
>>47046843
>Prime
>>47046708
I meant that it doesn't do subtle nuanced characters. I mean, that's literally not something that it even wants to do. I didn't look too much into because it seems like the kind of thing that would be described as "Gonzo", and I've already got a modern horror game that doesn't involve "Pornomancers" and "Fast Food Mages". The Sanity system looked cool, though.
>>47046748
Should be "Alan Moore, Hellblazer", since it's not something he said in an interview or anything.
>>47046796
Yes, but that means you're complaining that the specific instance isn't radically different from the others. Hence why I linked the video that points out that going into dramatic detail and making every sample character well rounded does nothing but take up time and space.
>>47046843
>
Sorry, didn't mean to quote you.
>>47046866
>Yes, but that means you're complaining that the specific instance isn't radically different from the others. Hence why I linked the video that points out that going into dramatic detail and making every sample character well rounded does nothing but take up time and space.
You can't say that with one breath while saying your characters aren't shallow with another. It may be your conscious choice to make them shallow, but that still is the case.
>>47046866
>I didn't look too much into because it seems like the kind of thing that would be described as "Gonzo", and I've already got a modern horror game that doesn't involve "Pornomancers" and "Fast Food Mages".
Shame. You might've learned something.
>>47046866
>I didn't look too much into
werent you the one before complaining about people arguing things they dont understand?
What a fucking hypocrite.
>>47046866
>I didn't look too much into because it seems like the kind of thing that would be described as "Gonzo"
Jesus Christ, I thought that kind of bullshit stopped at people's grandmas seeing pictures of elves in D&D books and deciding they're Satanic grimoires. Unknown Armies is mindblowing fucking masterpiece. It is chillingly beautiful and inspiringly terrifying. It's a diamond bullet to the brain.
And you've decided to give up on it because it had the word "porn".
>>47046866
>I meant that it doesn't do subtle nuanced characters. I mean, that's literally not something that it even wants to do. I didn't look too much into because it seems like the kind of thing that would be described as "Gonzo", and I've already got a modern horror game that doesn't involve "Pornomancers" and "Fast Food Mages". The Sanity system looked cool, though.
Case in point: it's possible to literally be deliberately as in-your-face as possible and come off as being subtler than the guys trying to be.
>>47045892
I believe you when you say that these are the only things you could possibly know from reading it.
>>47046866
>Should be "Alan Moore, Hellblazer", since it's not something he said in an interview or anything.
It is something he said in an interview.
It's something he said John told him when he met him in real life.
Technically the quotee should be John Constantine.
>>47047069
Robin Laws still made characters twice as interesting as that in as many words by pulling adjectives out of a hat. Seriously, it's in Weather The Cuckoo Likes. Try it.
>>47047105
Is Alan Moor an Awakaned? What paths would he be?
>>47046949
I'm saying that you're arguing that a 114 word write up in which we learn a person's name, Shadow Name, hometown, childhood supernatural talents, Mystery Play, current occupation, way of viewing her magic, and personal usage of magic is not as detailed or interesting as a character who's description amounted to "will fuck you up" and later got novels dedicated to them.
You're comparing two completely different types of character.
>>47046959
>>47046991
Learned what? It's not the kind of game I'm interested in.
I'm not saying I'm an expert on it, I'm just saying that the game literally markets itself as the exact opposite of "subtle and well rounded".
>>47047044
>And you've decided to give up on it because it had the word "porn".
What? No. Porn is great. I just don't like the game's attitude. It's the same reason I don't read The Invisibles. Mentioning pornomancers doesn't mean I hate porn. It means I find the idea of becoming a high wizard because you jerk off all day silly. I mean, I'm not a high wizard.
>>47047068
Considering the only kind of people I see even saying that it's in your face are the kind of people who rant and rave that women and minorities are trying to take over...
>>47047068
Unsubtly in your face as possible with a Somali woman wearing something that the majority of Somali women wear.
>>47047165
No, no. The presence of Somali women is pretty in your face. You can only have white guys in your game.
I honestly thought people would complain about Baphomet more.
>>47047165
>>47047201
Unsubtly as in, say, Beast. Just the entire line, really.
>>47047162
>Considering the only kind of people I see even saying that it's in your face are the kind of people who rant and rave that women and minorities are trying to take over...
...you are ignorant? Inexperienced? Sheltered?
>>47047162
>It means I find the idea of becoming a high wizard because you jerk off all day silly.
Would you read the fucking game before saying shit like that? You're beginning to come off like that woman who said Mass Effect was about screwing aliens. You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about, and the hilarious thing is you're talking shit about a text that's ten times better than the one you're trying to protect (I'm going to be generous here and assume that you haven't also written some of it, making this all the worse).
>>47047162
>I find the idea of becoming a high wizard because you jerk off all day silly
See, as long as you're gonna say that, I'm gonna say I'm morally opposed to Mage being a game about black supremacy and gay terrorism. No, I haven't actually read it! Why would I read something like that? I saw the pictures! Isn't that enough to know what a game is about?
>>47047317
Did you miss the part last thread where someone was saying that kind of thing?
>>47047355
You're doing a terrible job of selling your game to people if this is your elevator pitch.
>>47047127
Impossible for him to be anything other than Mastigos.
Oh My God!!
>>47044973
Paradox can get up to 5 dice per Reach.
FUCK!!!!
I thought 4 dice would be harsh.
>>47047395
>You're doing a terrible job of selling your game to people if this is your elevator pitch.
Nobody's trying to sell you anything, and judging by your behavior 80% of it's going to fly right over your head anyway. Stick to gay vampires.
>>47047394
It is literally a game about obsession. That is literally one of the things directly from the Kickstarter:
>Unknown Armies is an occult game about broken people conspiring to fix the world. It’s about humanity, and how those among us who are the most obsessed have the power to alter reality until it aligns with their fevered desires. It’s about getting what you want despite others trying to keep it from you.
It may be deeper and more nuanced than a fucking joke that you obviously can't take, but it is still a game about obsession. Christ, I forgot that I can't just be casually disinterested in things. I apparently have to go out of my way to binge on them and then write an academic review before I'm allowed to have the opinion of "eh, not my thing".
>>47047508
You're basing arguments on a blatantly wrongful opinion you've formed about a text without reading it. You could call it a joke all day, they still won't be good arguments.
>>47047508
>>47047545
What's depressing is he doesn't even understand just how wrong he is.
>>47047508
we wouldnt matter if you werent such a cunt about it.
>>47047508
>a fucking joke that you obviously can't take
>HAHA! I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED!
>>47047570
>>47047545
>>47047619
How about you explain it, then.
>>47047576
But according to Constantine that's how I can do magic
>>47047508
>Christ, I forgot that I can't just be casually disinterested in things. I apparently have to go out of my way to binge on them and then write an academic review before I'm allowed to have the opinion of "eh, not my thing".
Because instead of just saying "eh, not my thing", Aspel, you argue and argue and argue about why you're not interested, using nothing but bad faith arguing and using either half-informed or misinformed assumptions about the thing you don't like. You've been saying the exact same lazy things about Unknown Armies, almost to the letter, back when you were Lace. The fact that you still do this on the drop of a hat without any kind of revision is astounding.
No one's asking you to do a fucking academic critique, they're just asking you to actually put some effort in your arguments, and to not draw the same old canards that anyone who actually bothered to pay attention to what you say know is bullshit. This is your problem: you're too lazy to actually read or watch or play anything that isn't in your comfort zone, so you expect summaries and someone else's writings, arguments, and assumptions to do the work for you. That laziness is going to show itself in everything you post beyond your basic opinions, and that's what ticks people off. It's why you're a mediocre artist, and a subpar ally.
>>47047721
>It's why you're a mediocre artist
post his art
Can anyone with a copy tell me what the higher level of Time spells are like?
Can you still only manipulate the flow of time, or can you somehow wind it back?
>>47047827
You can send individuals back along their own timelines with Time 5, and cast spells on someone's past self with Time 2.
>>47047827
Here you go.
>>47047721
Except that I did say that. You're the one arguing and arguing about how I should be interested, and that I'm wrong for not being interested. I made a joke about one of the character types. I'm sorry that offended you. If you remind me in a week, I'll go look over the Unknown Armies 3e playtest package. But for now, this is a WoD thread, so I'm not going to have this discussion.
>>47047783
I don't actually have any, so I don't know why he said that.
Do Chthonians still have Death as an influence?
>>47046662
is that thing real? The link seems sketchy.
>>47048503
It's real.
Are shadow names not the norm anymore. Because its a merit now.
>>47048599
>not the norm anymore
Do you WANT to hand someone a sympathetic link on a plate?
>>47048599
You can have a Shadow Name without the merit; the merit just makes it more potent, representing special time and energy investment you took.
>>47048599
Effect: Your character has a particularly developed magical
persona, and is almost a different person when acting as a mage
than in her mundane life.
there's a differnece between calling yourself black jesus and having the merit for black jesus
(Back, no longer on ipad)
Two out of five characters being white men and one more being a white woman is, to racists, apparently erasing. And Khonsu is solidly western - his real name's Garfield, for fuck's sake. Marple (the 11th Question sig) is Chinese-American, but she's from Seattle.
The *only* iconic who isn't western based is Icheumon.
>>47048174
Probably yes. We reserve the right to change that if Geist 2e gets scheduled and someone has other ideas for Cthonian mechanics. But for the purposes of a Mage storyteller, they're mechanically ghosts without anchors who don't have to be humanoid.
>>47047827
With Time 5 you can Butterfly Effect someone, but you can't send a subject out of its own timeline without archmastery. Or finding an Iris to the past like the ones littering Seattle.
>>47048713
yes
>>47047866
This seems like it would make it very difficult to have a coherent story.
>>47048568
I in the middle of skimming Mage 2e, and despite my high expectations, I'm finding a lot of it very disappointing.
For those who believe mages are too powerful or that they might have received a power upgrade in 2e, you can stop worrying. While it might superficially appear that some Arcana received a boost, the necessary time, Reach, minimum Factors, casting penalties, mana requirements, etc., to achieve effects are so onerous that anyone but high level adepts and masters using Rotes are mostly useless or the mage will expend themselves after a spell or two.
The Arcana Attaiments, including Armor, are also extremely lackluster. Despite Dave's claims, a lot of spells also don't seem to strictly follow the practices.
I've already created a long list of questions and concerns, and I'm far from done with the whole book or begun to dig down on the minutia.
Dave really picked the best bits to release in the spoilers. It reminds me of a great movie trailer for a terrible movie. Everything good or exciting was already spoiled in the trailer.
>>47048753
The name Garfield is actually Turkish in origin.
>>47048753
so is hallucinate the only way to make illusions now?
>>47048713
No that why I questioned it.
>>47048750
>>47048752
Thanks for that
>>47048758
Yay I have a Time Master in my troupe. Its sure as hell complicated to keep track of "Time Lines."
>>47048761
link to download?
Werewolf superior.
Mage inferior.
>>47048761
Speak for yourself. I'm loving the game so far.
>>47048814
Search the prior thread.
>>47045033
>black arab women who's not straight
So either murdered by her family or covered in acid burns?
>>47048795
Mind and Forces could both do it pretty soundly.
>>47048842
As far as the 2nd editions go? Pretty much.
Requiem and Forsaken are the clear winners of the 2e releases, with Forsaken coming slightly ahead, although I think that's because of my own personal preference.
It's funny really. 1e Mage was my favourite nWoD game, core included (ya, I said it). 2e Mage is so far the core I like the least.
>>47048906
hallucinate is mind
>>47048842
Werewolf is the best game.
Did I miss it, or did Mage 2e not include a sample fireball spell?
Why doesn't the Forces Transform Energy include columns for kinetic energy and gravity?
Forces 5 Adverse Weather is laughable. At default with one Reach to spend, a allegedly powerful master requires a ritual to alter only one level of extreme environment (Potency) for 15 seconds (Primary Duration) within a range of his arm-span (Scale). The Reach, spell penalties and Paradox/mana to make the spell a fraction as impressive and practical as it sounds is prohibitive. At least the Forces 4 Attainment will immunize him from the effects...
Further, if Adverse Weather doesn't have limitations of Control Weather, why does it require an additional Reach to drastically alter local conditions?
>>47048761
Nah, Mage 2e is the best so far, mainly because they didn't have to hamfistedly shove in a new antagonist to take up half the wordcount.
>>47048842
>Werewolf superior.
>Mage inferior
You certainly wouldn't have believed it from the spoilers, but yes, absolutely,
Until a Mage gets to master level or a really good or specific Adept build, mages are little more than Uratha kibble.
>>47049265
Half the word count? Both vampire and werewolf only have a chapter dedicated to that.
But I'm with you Mage 2E is great so far.
>>47049338
Have you heard of hyperbole before?
>>47049360
They didn't do it to fill out wordcount, either. They've been pretty explicit that the only reason they didn't put things like Bloodline or Lodge mechanics in the core books is because they didn't have enough word count; if the Strix and Idigam were just for word count's sake, that wouldn't be an issue.
(They also wouldn't be released alongside anthologies titled after the same antagonists, and Blood and Smoke would have been a much different book.)
>>47048753
>White guy taking on the mantle of an African God
Holy shit, Khonsu is Moon Knight, isn't he?
Also, I like that the Eleventh Question's Shadow Name is "Marple".
>>47048761
>For those who believe mages are too powerful or that they might have received a power upgrade in 2e, you can stop worrying. While it might superficially appear that some Arcana received a boost, the necessary time, Reach, minimum Factors, casting penalties, mana requirements, etc., to achieve effects are so onerous that anyone but high level adepts and masters using Rotes are mostly useless or the mage will expend themselves after a spell or two.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
I'm halfway through the Orders and I'm loving it. Things I used to hate I don't. I can even see myself wanting to play a Thearch, or an Obrimos.
>>47049435
They still take up wordcount that could have been much better used for other things, which is what I meant when I said 'to take up wordcount.'
>>47049265
I thought that spellcasting would be fairly simple and straightforward, with basic spells being relatively impressive on their own, particularly at higher levels, without the need for too many complications or penalties unless the PC wanted truly spectacular effects.
While the new system isn't complicated per se, even the most simple effects require substantial costs, factors and penalties to be minimally practical (e.g., see the complaints about Forces 5 Adverse Weather above), and thus I fear it will slow down play and disincentive anything but unimaginative or repetitive spellcasting.
>>47049360
Hyperbole doesn't exist on the internet. Everything people say is one hundred percent true, and no one ever exaggerates. That's why it's important to call someone out if they say something that overstates things.
>>47049141
Just ran some numbers. A Master mage with something like Gnosis 5, which is probably reasonable, can instant-cast Adverse Weather to hit a city block for a scene with two levels of extreme potency and a good chance of getting the spell off. Three to four levels of extreme weater if you can spend Willpower on the roll, I haven't checked if that's possible. With a dedicated magical tool, he just needs to spend 2 Mana to reduce the Paradox from all the Reach to a chance die. Yantras some of the heavy lifting in restoring him to a decent dice pool.
The stuff with Reach isn't really the problem if you are well tanked up with mana, and Reaching to the advanced tables helps a lot. It's the dice penalties from then walking up the advanced table further that's the problem.
>>47049510
Control Gravity is the real power-house of low-level Forces anyway.
>Withstanding
>If a spell must overcome some aspect of its subject to take full effect, it will list a Withstand rating in its description (usually a Resistance Attribute, but spells themselves Withstand dispellation using the Arcanum rating of the caster’s highest Arcanum used in the spell). Withstood spells reduce their Potency by levels equal to the Withstand rating. If this leaves the spell with no levels in Potency, it still counts as an active spell against spell control but has no further effect. Spells with multiple subjects apply their Potency against the Withstand rating of each individual subject, so may take effect against some of them. Each spell in a combined spell is Withstood separately. If a spell has multiple Withstand ratings (for example, a Withstood spell cast 115 paradox with the Sympathetic Range Attainment) it uses the highest rating, +1 for every additional rating.
>Characters may only spend Willpower to increase a Resistance Attribute used for Withstanding if they are aware of a spell being cast upon them.
Wait, really? So if I have Resolve 5, some filthy Mastigos tries to control my mind with a Mind spell, and they score 5 successes for Potency, I completely shut that down anyway?
Wow.
>>47049510
A Master requires a minimum of Gnosis 5.
I'd love to see your math.
Note that each Reach beyond the one free for a master--level spell adds three dice to the Paradox pool, with the assured dice tricks for Sleeper witnesses, likely rote quality for massive weather changes.
Casting at range also requires a Reach, and each Advanced Factor like Scale and Duration requires a separate Reach each.
Of course, this is all before any additional issues involving excluding allies from the effects with Fate.
>>47049614
No, Potency is a spell factor. They take a penalty to make it higher.
That said if your Resolve is very high, it's better for them to not crank potency at all, and instead use the dice they save to go for an exceptional success, which bypasses withstanding.
>>47049614
"Score 5 successes"? This isn't 1st ed - you don't add successes to Potency, it's predetermined before you roll, and the spell gets that much no matter how well you roll.
Said filthy Mastigos would require a Potency 6 spell. Which, depending on how many Mind dots they have and if Potency is the primary factor, may require a hefty spell factor penalty.
Or scoring an exceptional success and taking the "ignores withstanding" option.
>>47049614
Potency is not based on successes.
Potency is hard-coded into the spell. If Potency is the Primary factor, its base is the Arcanum level of the casting mage (or 1 for non-primary factors), and increased with spellcasting penalties (+1 for -2 dice). Absent an exceptional success, regular successes on the spellcasting roll do not add to Potency.
>>47049660
Dave, if telekinesis and gravity control only require 3 dots of Forces, why does levitation require 4?
>>47049660
What does getting 2-4 successes actually do?
>>47049660
Hey Dave, I'm looking forward to the Print on Demand release. Looks great so far.
>>47049772
It makes the spell go off, as you designed it, same as 1 success.
>>47049730
Telekinesis and Gravity Control are the Mage personally moving things, Levitation is the Mage shoving the symbol for 'levitates' into the target's Pattern.
>>47049619
You're right on the Paradox bit, I missed the part with 3 dice per reach, but as for maths:
I have 10 dice to start with.
For my 4 yantras, I go High Speech (+2 dice), 2 dice from material sympathy (gonna use something related to the area I'm weather-fucking like the example of some concrete from the city block, +2 dice), some other tool (+1 die) and the dedicated magical tool (-2 paradox dice). Base 15 dice.
I'm then going 1 Reach to bounce to Instant casting, 1 Reach to shift duration to Advanced, 1 Reach to shift Scale to Advanced, 1 Reach because presumably I want to do something drastically different from current weather. I don't use Reach to fire it at range because I'll just touch whatever the centrepoint is. With my 1 free Reach that puts me 3 over for 9 Paradox dice, down to 7 with the magical tool. I'll burn through the 7 personal mana to reduce that to a chance die.
I'm going to go for city-block size scale (-8 dice) and make it do 2 levels of Extreme rather than 1 with an extra Potency (-2 dice). Oh, oops, er, I forgot that the primary spell factor is Duration so this then lasts for a YEAR without any dice penalties, heh.
Those penalties leave me rolling 5 dice which is good odds. If I can Willpower it then I can risk upping the Potency further.
Admittedly I have now accidentally frozen or toasted a city block for a YEAR which seems far more than I'd ever really need to do. IT feels like Adverse Weather should have Potency for its primary spell factor, not Duration.
Nothing, except in the rare circumstance that 3 successes are an exceptional success such as Praxis spells.
People and objects are also affected by telekinesis and gravity control.
Levitation should be Forces 3, *maybe* with a Reach, and then only for 'game balance.'
So, if I understand Potency right, you now have to decide how much damage you want to do before rolling, and take a penalty based on that, right?
It doesn't seem like there's even any way to avoid taking damage from a spell unless it's directly affecting you/withstood.
I don't want to do this much math every time someone decides to use a power, so I guess Mage 2e is going to get even less play than Mage 1e at my table. Sorry Dave.
How would you handle Silent Hill as a Mage game's core Mystery?
I did it in Geist--the Sin-eaters were randomly 'pulled' into an area in the Underworld that was a reflection of the hospital where it had burned down, populated by fucked up ghosts and the Geist of the Chief of Medicine who failed sacrificing the hospital to return his daughter to life--but that was just one hospital. How would I do it for an entire city? How would I make it Magey?
I figure it might have to do with the Primordial Dream, maybe bleeding into the city through Verges? Possibly only affecting those touched by the occult, as opposed to the world at large. Or maybe as a result of some kind of new drug?
I could also go a more Gotham City route and have the city literally be some genus loci, or have a malevolent spirit that curses it to always be like Chicago but shittier.
>>47049864
It's not that much math, you baby
>>47049853
If a spell is directly affecting you, you withstand it. If a spell is indirectly affecting you, you can resist it by whatever means apply to its indirect method of attack.
Forces to tear someone apart with their own kinetic energy is withstood, but also doesn't really care about armor.
Forces to throw a heavy rock at someone isn't withstood, but also contends with armor.
Honestly dealing damage with spells, directly or indirectly, is a chump's game, since you can just outright kill people with most arcana at 2 dots.
>>47049853
Yup.
And if you're a Mage, Wards & Signs, or having Life 4 will help with being zapped. But Mage Society has always been the very perculiar sort of formal interaction you get when everyone involved can kill one another with their minds.
>>47049660
What was your reasoning for allowing Mages to ignore Withstanding anyway? I mean, shooting for Exceptionals isn't exactly something you can bet on (you need like 14 dice to have a better than half chance of it) but exceptionals will come up enough that Mages will be able to get past one of the bigger (and better) limitations of their spells.
>>47049772
>>47049788
>>47049807
Noticeable minor flavour effects that are mechanically indistinct, if your ST wants to throw you a bone.
>>47049891
Direct and a lot of indirect, but straightforward, attack spells are the easiest mechanically by far.
Situational, environmental and a lot of longer duration spells, however, can get very complicated and resource expensive real fast.
>Reaching is a term for Werewolves/ephemerals crossing the Gauntlet
>Reaching is also a term for altering the factors of a spell
As someone who was fine with the different demons, this is going to get confusing.
>>47049864
None of this math is even necessary. This is the same kind of math people do to crunch everything instead of doing things. "Can I kill this guy in one hit or should I run away?" is the kind of thing that takes five seconds in game and twenty minutes in session as players try to figure out statistics instead of eyeballing it.
>>47049922
Whoever said "a well armed society is a polite society" has never been to America.
>>47049935
>Direct and a lot of indirect, but straightforward, attack spells are the easiest mechanically by far.
At the same arcana it would take me to deal even 1 bashing with a direct damage spell, I could have ordered someone to kill themselves for exactly 1 more Reach. Both spells would be Withstood, both spells would have the same factors.
>>47049922
Hey Dave does Life 4 attainment provide protection against ANY form of damage? Or just physical.
>>47049929
If you choose "no wthstand" you're passing up the other things. See that Mana refund option? That's really good in the game's resource economy, that is. Or you could have an Arcane Beat-generating Condition.
But mostly, it was so that no matter how ridiculous the defense, mages *can*, with luck, get past it. Which given that most supernatural beings' powers have no defense at all *cough*Demon*cough* is fair.
People mathhammer about Gnosis 5 Arcanum 5 characters because it's esier to discount limitations when whiterooming, but to a Gnosis 3 Mind 2 guy trying desperately to put someone to sleep so they won't get caught up in the cabal's business and has limited time to cast the spell, that exceptional success mechanic can be the only way to do it.
>Pierce Deception (Prime •)
>Practice: Unveiling
>Primary Factor: Duration
>Suggested Rote Skills: Investigation, Medicine, Occult
>Prime is the Arcanum of pure Truth, and no falsehood may stand before it. By means of this spell, the subject sees illusions, phantasms, and lies for what they are. The spell sees through mundane falsehoods the subject perceives automatically; magical illusion or deception automatically provokes a Clash of Wills.
>This spell only reveals “active” untruths: the subject would see that someone with dyed hair isn’t really a blonde, or recognize a lie when she heard it, but she wouldn’t know that a Wall Street executive has been committing tax fraud for years just by looking at him. If she got a look at his tax return, however, she would see that it was a falsehood.
>+1 Reach: In addition to sensing falsehoods, the subject gets some symbolic sense of what the actual truth is, veiled in Supernal symbolism and metaphor.
Alright, so a Prime mage can just completely shut down any attempts at mundane deception short of a demon's perfect lies. Really?
>>47050051
Well, yeah. That's mundane deception, not magical.
We built a fake wall in the shadow to hide when we were building our locus.
>>47050026
>most supernatural powers have no defense at all
Yikes. Vamp 2e, Werewolf 2e, and even fucking Beast are covered in resistance rolls, Demon has always been an outlier in that regard. Please don't come here and lie.
>>47050102
>3 stats vs 2
>meaningful resistance
Yeah whatever. I have literally never seen a Vampire fail to land Dominate; it has no resistance roll for any reasonable definition.
If I create a soul stone, then replace my soul with another person's, do I no longer have the Gnosis penalty?
>>47050116
You must not be playing much, happens all the time.
>>47050127
Really? Your vampires are regularly failing to get a success on 4+ dice, after the penalty?
>>47050091
>magic must defeat magic
O-Okay.
>The Eleventh Question have explaining things to idiots as a Yantra
Aww yiss, time to be a patronizing detective.
>>47050026
Technically Demon powers have Defense, it's just "eh, figure it out yourself". Needless to say, I have issues with how Matt approaches game design.
Also, my problem is less that it's unfair and more that it just seems to occupy a weird niche. It's not something you can rely on; if you actually need it, you probably won't get it. On top of that, it encourages you to avoid the cooler Spell Factor stuff. Why would I want to hope for an Exceptional when Spell Factors are always going to be cooler?
In 1e I tended to get 14 dice pools and then Spell Factor down to 4 because bonus reliable effects are awesome.
>>47050051
I'm not seeing a problem.
>>47048883
I mean, lots of supernaturals either start out by being murdered and/or tend to get off light when it happens to them later so why not?
>>47050143
So you think lying really well should beat the Supernal lie detector spell?
>>47050127
No, it's extremely rare. Vampire Disciplines wield three useful high stats versus two stats that are, for most people, much lower.
Whatever happened to those passive arcanum benefits we were promised?
How do I sympathetic cast with Space?
>>47050203
Attainments, nigga. End of the spellcasting chapter, just before Legacies.
>>47050141
Do you know how Dominate works? It's contested. Int + Exp + Dominate vs Res+SA
>>47049865
>How would you handle Silent Hill as a Mage game's core Mystery?
Resting place of a very nasty Bound who has subverted the local seers into trying to release it
>>47050238
Yes, again: three high stats vs two lower ones. Any vampire that intends to rely on Dominate will max those out; vanishingly few concepts would have the specific defense stats super high.
>>47050238
Mathematically identical to when it was 3 stats - 2 as a penalty.
Dice from dice or successes vs. successes, it's the same shit.
>>47050260
It was never actually subtracting two stats.
>>47050177
Yes? At least make it just give a penalty to Subterfuge and Stealth...
What action is it to activate Mage Armor?
>>47050285
Why? Can you give one reason why that would matter?
>>47050307
Hard counters against entire skills at 1 dot are bullshit.
>>47050390
Better go tell Vampires they're not allowed to have Dominate, then.
>>47050390
Werewolf has one in the half-moon gift tree.
>>47050422
Dominate at 1 dot isn't a hard counter.
>>47050441
Never said that was good either.
>>47050453
>Dominate at 1 dot isn't a hard counter.
>tell me the truth
>don't lie to me
It costs 1 Experience to join a Legacy and then another 1 Experience to get the first Attainment, right?
Why is Eleventh Question so cool?
>>47050390
>>47050453
Don't be ridiculous. If you're literally able to see the supernal concept of a lie, why would someone being able to lie well matter?
>>47050422
>>47050441
There's also the Demon one that lets you find hidden objects by searching for the "Hidden" part instead of the object part.
>>47050453
>Dominate at 1 dot isn't a hard counter.
Yes, it is. Mesmerize doesn't care what any of your stats are, if they say "tell me the truth about X," you must do so.
>>47050141
To be fair, that does happen. I remember a session once where three different vampires totally whiffed on 10 and 11 dice pools, in a row. Not a single success among them. Incredibly improbable, of course (and not something to try and balance a game around). But that interesting little slew of randomness is why we play role playing games instead of just sitting around a table making up a story.
>>47050390
Sense Life/Consciousness hard-counters Stealth. It's one dot.
>>47050484
No. 1 XP to join the Legacy and get the first Attainment, period.
>>47050301
Im guessing reflexive.
>>47050495
>10 and 11 dice pools
you mean they didn't all have 5 dominate and 5 expression? this is literally impossible
>>47050491
That doesn't help you passively and subtly identify all deceptions around you.
>>47050511
Obviously Intelligence 5 + Expression 5 + Dominate 1
>>47050560
>dominate 1
>expression 5
impossible
dominate gives you a dicepool for it
everyone who would use dominate has 5 in it
>>47050511
Dominate 5 sucks and isn't really worth it in any sense. If you're building a Dominate Vampire, just go Intelligence 5, Expression 5, and stop at Dominate 4.
>>47050585
>possession sucks
>build up to 4, not 5, and just give up an entire die
you people don't even know how to play the game
>>47050511
>>47050560
If I recall right, the dice pools were something like Int 3 Dominate 4 Expression 3, Presence 4 Persuasion 4 Majesty 3, and Presence 4 Empathy 2 Nightmare 4. We were playing Blood and Smoke; XP progression can be quite slow if you're not piling on the dramatic failures and conditions on yourselves
>>47050615
Possession is atrocious. It's useless; there is absolutely nothing Possession does you can't do better with Dominate 1-4 except "use Possession".
The 1 die is statistically insignificant. 14+ vs 15+ is a trivial difference.
>>47050625
(And yes - we used Dominate, then Majesty, then Nightmare, all on the same random mortal, and nothing happened. Then we just beat the shit out of him. That worked surprisingly well.)
>>47050585
Fucking insurance man.
Meeting a new vampire? Possess a hobo to greet them.
Going to talk to a rival, possess their ghoul so they won't kill the messenger.
Want to have a second life during the day, find the perfect live your lookinh for. Do as above.
>>47050639
>Possession is atrocious. It's useless; there is absolutely nothing Possession does you can't do better with Dominate 1-4 except "use Possession".
You can go out during the day, for one.
While the guy you're arguing with seems hysterical AF, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
>>47050668
>Then we just beat the shit out of him. That worked surprisingly well.)
It tends to.
>tfw no 2e Sodality of the Tor
>>47050674
>You can go out during the day, for one.
You can go out during the day by default.
>you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
I would put money on my knowing Vampire better than you. Possession is awful.
>>47050672
Meeting a new vampire? Possess a hobo to greet them.
Why? You're weaker while Possessing. Just send a ghoul - or Dominate the hobo with earlier levels to say what you want him to, and then continue using your powers to do whatever.
>Going to talk to a rival, possess their ghoul so they won't kill the messenger.
If you possess their ghoul, you are weaker and vulnerable. Rather than use Possession, use Dominate 3 to trigger a Dominate 2 trance at a keyword, and make them your brain-slave at the meeting. Now you have a servant AND the full scope of your own powers.
>Want to have a second life during the day, find the perfect live your lookinh for. Do as above.
You can go out during the day anyway, again. There's also no real practical benefit to that.
>>47050748
>You can go out during the day by default.
Not without being fatigued AF, having to encase yourself in darkness and risking going up like a Roman candle if anything attacks you.
>>47050794
>Not without being fatigued AF, having to encase yourself in darkness and risking going up like a Roman candle if anything attacks you.
Sunlight has been severely de-clawed in 2.0. Maintain a decent Humanity and you're fine; if you have a low BP, it's even easier.
Or be on the Path of the Ascendant.
>>47050748
It must be hard being this retarded.
>You can go out during the day by default.
Sunlight burns vampires.
>Why? You're weaker while Possessing. Just send a ghoul - or Dominate the hobo with earlier levels to say what you want him to, and then continue using your powers to do whatever.
But then you can't change your message based on new information.
>If you possess their ghoul, you are weaker and vulnerable. Rather than use Possession, use Dominate 3 to trigger a Dominate 2 trance at a keyword, and make them your brain-slave at the meeting. Now you have a servant AND the full scope of your own powers.
But then you can be stabbed in the face and are away from your base of power.
>You can go out during the day anyway, again. There's also no real practical benefit to that.
Not if you loose Humanity, which is much easier in 2e.
>At the end of a scene in which a Sleeper witnesses obvious Supernal magic, roll her Integrity as a dice pool, Withstood by the spell’s dots, the Rank of a Supernal entity, or a number set by the Storyteller for other magical phenomena.
>Success: If the roll achieves successes beyond the phenomenon’s Withstand rating:
So, what, a 5 dot spell needs to face 6 successes from Dissonance to get affected by that Dissonance?
>>47050810
And you still die in the sunlight because you don't heal without spending Vitae.
>decent Humanity
You take 1 lethal every 10 minutes.
Possession allows you to sit outside in the sun all day with no issue.
>>47050748
>I would put money on my knowing Vampire better than you.
>You can go out during the day by default.
"Fledgling dressed like a muslim wife" is hardly default.
>>47050836
>It must be hard being this retarded.
I'm proud of you, though. You persevere.
>Sunlight burns vampires.
Ascendant, Humanity, BP, clothing. Sunlight is pathetic unless you're some inhuman elder- which most PCs aren't, and if you are, you're sufficiently warped and entrenched in the night life that you don't need to venture out in the day, anyway.
>But then you can't change your message based on new information.
So send a second message after. It's better than going into a coma and losing access to all your powers.
>But then you can be stabbed in the face and are away from your base of power.
You're more vulnerable to being stabbed in the face while in a coma deprived of all your powers.
>Not if you loose Humanity, which is much easier in 2e.
Humanity is easy to keep high in the first place, and easy to buy up if you dip low.
>>47050862
1 lethal every 10 minutes. Spend some Vitae for healing intermittently, and you can stay out in the sunlight for as long as you need to to accomplish anything.
>Possession allows you to sit outside in the sun all day with no issue.
Yes, it does. There's no benefit to this. Spending all day at the beach is not an adequate justification for wasting XP.
>>47050889
Thanks for sharing the chart and proving my point. Sunlight is eminently survivable in 2.0.
>>47050639
>>47050672
The only reason I ever considered Possession was for a properly humiliating way of murdering a combat-specced Gangrel NPC I really disliked. The plan was to have him drain out all his Vitae, chain himself down naked, to the top of a metal water tower and wait for sunrise.
The trouble with lower levels of Dominate is they wear off if you order them to do something that would be a breaking point; Possession only has a chance to break when you're actively killing yourself in their body, and by that point it would have been way too late.
>>47050931
Survivable != Viable
>Arguing about Vampire when Mage is out
I realize that our long national Mage nightmare is finally at an end, but I'm going to post this week's Monday Meeting Notes anyways:
http://theonyxpath.com/wake-up-and-smell-the-mage2nd/
>First Draft
BtP Mortal Remains (Beast: the Primordial)
BtP Player’s Guide
>Editing
CofD Hurt Locker (Chronicles of Darkness)
>Post Editing Development
The Prince’s Gambit (Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
>Art Direction
W20 Shattered Dreams
Dark Eras Companion
Necropolis Rio
W20 Kinfolk
Beckett’s Jyhad Diary
CofD Hurt Locker
Mummy Novel
V20 DA Tome of Secrets
>Layout
Promethean: the Created Second
V20 Ready Made Characters
Secrets of the Covenants
Dark Eras – Prepping PoD files.
>Proofing
WtF2 The Pack
V20 Ghouls – At WWP for approvals.
Curse of the Blue Nile – With Colin.
I hope you like Beast, because it looks like there's plenty of it coming down the way.
>>47050931
>1 lethal every 10 minutes. Spend some Vitae for healing intermittently, and you can stay out in the sunlight for as long as you need to to accomplish anything.
Accomplish anything? Sunlight damage looks like your flesh is rotting and melting at the same time. And 1 Vitae cures 1 Lethal damage. At the most you've got 2 hours.
>Yes, it does. There's no benefit to this. Spending all day at the beach is not an adequate justification for wasting XP.
You can spend it at the beach, or you can go out and do something during the daytime, that thing no other vampire can do without fucking over the Masquerade and risking death every step.
>>47050973
Everyone interested in Mage is busy reading and re-reading it.
>>47050960
Describe a task you need to use Possession to accomplish that involves ages under the sun and I will explain to you how to accomplish it better via a Dominated proxy.
>>47050996
>Accomplish anything? Sunlight damage looks like your flesh is rotting and melting at the same time. And 1 Vitae cures 1 Lethal damage. At the most you've got 2 hours.
1 Lethal won't look good, but it isn't atrociously hideous, either, and can be quickly healed. 2 hours of direct exposure is more than enough time to accomplish any goal- and that's completely ignoring the ability to take cover or feed during that time.
Unless your goals are specifically to be exposed to sunlight, there is nothing you can't achieve by avoiding it and using daytime proxies. Use your slaves. You don't need to enter a powerless coma to do that.
>You can spend it at the beach, or you can go out and do something during the daytime, that thing no other vampire can do without fucking over the Masquerade and risking death every step.
This is what Dominate 1-4 are for. Use your slaves. Safe, doesn't put you in a coma, accomplishes the same thing.
Possession in Requiem would be a lot better if it let you still use your social and mental powers like you can in Masquerade. It's the inability to use your powers that in my opinion flips Possession from pretty useful to kind of useless. Like yeah sure I can go out into the daylight, except anything I would want to do using Possession would be effective if I sent my ghoul to do it because at least the ghoul can actually use her powers.
>>47050989
Wasn't Mortal Remains a Hunter book?
>>47051086
They're making a Beast supplement to it. An add-on chapter. It was a stretch goal.
>>47051067
I (dunno about the others) wasn't arguing about Possession, just your implication that sunlight was a non-issue.
...although one of them raised a valid point in that a possessed proxy allows you to react to new information on the spot.IMO that's not worth the XP.
>>47051171
>I (dunno about the others) wasn't arguing about Possession, just your implication that sunlight was a non-issue.
When you can survive 2 hours of constant sun exposure (or forever if you're BP 1), sunlight can comfortably be called a non-issue. You're a nocturnal creature. Two hours is sufficient time to get the fuck out of the sun or meet someone.
>...although one of them raised a valid point in that a possessed proxy allows you to react to new information on the spot.
So does Dominate and an ear-piece with accompanying microphone.
That way also lets your mind-slave use their superpowers and doesn't put you in a powerless coma.
Once again, not using Possession works out better.
>>47048883
I think this is what personally bothers me; not in this case, as there is obviously nothing wrong with being inclusive and aware that white males are not the sole target audience. But generally.
A popular approach to being inclusive these days seems to be utterly ignoring reality in favor of a utopian fantasy of hand holding and cuddles. In darker settings, it makes even less sense.
If i go to Bradford (a town/city in England), I expect as a white man to stand out a mile in some areas, due to the sheer numbers of Pakistanis, and it would be dangerous for me to walk down some side streets alone. Because racial tension and bigotry is a thing. It doesn't go away because we want it to.
It's the same way that it's silly for gay folks to have rallies in support of Muslims. Such is considered deviance in their culture, and is punished like you mention. It's hyberbole; but today, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Hispanic Muslim Lesbian character show up in some popular show, and never suffer for it. And I would be considered racist for acknowledging this. In my eyes it even damages the cause, because it makes me think there is no real perspective involved. Just childish stamping of feet because a fantasy is just a fantasy.
It's also dangerous. Just look at some of the crimes brushed under the rug in Germany, because to focus on it would be damaging to the inclusive and 'tolerant' utopia people have in their heads. It can and has hurt people terribly.
When your society (and I'm talking the West as a whole) becomes so easily offended that a historical flag or a religious monument must be banned or removed... well, I believe something has to give at some point. And it's going to be horrific.
>>47050738
Wait a while; Dave said he'd post up the 2e versions of some of the 1e Legacies once 2e dropped. Probably some time between Wednesday and Saturday, if I had to guess.
>>47051009
I gotta say, The Door(the chapter fiction story) is keeping my hooked.
Anybody know who wrote this?
>>47051211
>Burning through your Vitae
>If and ONLY if 5+ Humanity
>a non-issue
So, done reading the whole of the spellcasting a chargen chapters.
I reiterate my opinion: the most disappointing of the 2nd editions core. Not necessarily bad, but compared to the improvements made almost across the board for Requiem and (especially) Forsaken, it's really kind of sad.
As someone upthread said, Dave really is an amazing salesman, cuz he really cherry picked the best stuff for the spoilers.
My hat to you sir, and now I wait for SoS, and see if that's any better, and if Dave's own statement on Mage selling itself on the strenghts of it's supplements holds true for 2e as it did for 1st (note: I actually disagree and vehemently hate that quote)
>>47051224
Or to put it another way inclusivity means writing a upper-middle class white guy with western progressive values and slapping a thin coat of diversity paint on him.
>>47051122
Oh, right.
>>47051309
Vitae is trivially replaceable, Humanity 5+ is trivially maintained, and you are, again, a nocturnal creature whose powers (if you can use Possession) revolve around the total mental enslavement of other creatures, removing the need to expose yourself in the first place.
Yes. Non-issue.
>>47051211
>So does Dominate and an ear-piece with accompanying microphone.
I'll give you that one.
>>47051334
>Vitae is trivially replaceable
You're either going to be draining people dry and drawing attention, OR taking here-and-there from a shit ton of people, spreading diseases and drawing attention.
>Humanity 5+ is trivially maintained
>trivially
Debatable. The ST a huge factor in that. Just look at some of the suggested breaking points.
>a nocturnal creature whose powers (if you can use Possession) revolve around the total mental enslavement of other creatures, removing the need to expose yourself in the first place.
BECAUSE IT'S AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE AVOIDED!
I'm not saying it's an enormous obstacle, but sunlight is NOT trivial.
>>47051224
Just because the setting is dark doesn't mean you have to focus on the hyperreality that anyone that stands out will without question be beaten down, harrassed, raped, or outright murdered at every turn.
It's also not really silly for gays to have rallies for Muslims. I personally don't agree with Islam, and whenever someone talks about praising Jesus I get a little nervous, but religion changes and evolves, and has multiple facets. Enough of them that even Catholics or Muslims can find meaning in their lives through religions that hate them, which is *why* you'd rally for those people who fit in a very dangerous sliver of the Venn Diagram
More than that, these characters *do* often suffer for their natures. You would see a Hispanic Muslim Lesbian character have special episodes dedicated to how sad she feels when people bully her, and her friends would cheer her up and provide her support while the people who give her shit are portrayed as being in the wrong (I assume this is a kid's show, but the same holds true elsewhere; look at Merle from Walking Dead giving people shit)
It also isn't dangerous, and even as someone not from Germany I keep hearing about how terrible and atrocious all Muslims are because of the crimes of a few. Which is where the real danger comes from, as the majority is told that all of a minority are villainous and violent. You see that in America as well, where violence against Muslims and people who *look* like Muslims, like Sikhs, skyrocketed after 9/11. But violence against Christians sees little to no change when one of them commits terrorism
The society becomes "easily offended" at a flag that's only history is racism--and that particular version of the flag doesn't even have any justification, since it was used as part of the Southern Strategy--because it's a symbol of oppression. It's a symbol of terrorism. You can't spend a post talking about how dangerous certain ideologies are while ignoring ones with dangerous history
>>47051331
Or this, yes. I'm just not looking forwards to the mess that will occur when some gay rights activists arrange a trip to Mecca and pull out their banners and take to the street. Something like it will happen some day.
>>47051331
>>47051473
In what way do you see that as being true?
Also, your understanding of what causes people are championing seems incredibly narrow and uneducated.
>>47051319
Your complaints seem almost entirely based on power level.
>>47051438
>I'll give you that one.
Good.
>You're either going to be draining people dry and drawing attention, OR taking here-and-there from a shit ton of people, spreading diseases and drawing attention.
You are doing no such thing. Dominate 1 makes feeding from anyone, at any time, any place, a quiet, no-nonsense, and utterly safe affair.
>Debatable. The ST a huge factor in that. Just look at some of the suggested breaking points.
Yeah, they're too permissive. There should be more, but oh well. I didn't make the rules.
>BECAUSE IT'S AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE AVOIDED!
Yes, in the same way we avoid not getting hit by cars. But getting hit by a car isn't some grievous burden; it's so easily managed and avoided as to be a non-issue outside of remarkably unfortunate circumstances.
A vampire can spend an extremely long time out in the sun. The less time they can spend in it, the less need they have to spend time in it.
2.0 made the sun a non-issue.
>>47051473
I am, it'd be a hilarious blow against cultural imperialism.
>>47051332
I wonder if they're gonna sell that extra chapter once it's released or send it out for free and include it in future printings of Mortal Remains.
>>47051444
Put another way, Hispanic Muslim Lesbians exist. They have shit to deal with, but not all of them are instantly burned with acid simply for existing. When you are a person who wields semi-phenomenal cosmic power, and as a matter of course tends to not hang around Sleepers in the first place, it is almost entirely a non-issue. The same is true if you are a spirit-fleshed engine of destruction or a walking corpse fueled by the blood of the innocent.
>>47051485
I find the much celebrated Ichneumon to be a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. If you changed her name to Alice Jennings and made her a Houston girl she'd hardly be any different what with how poorly they handled the bit where she's supposed to have grown up in the midst of a civil war.
>>47051498
>You are doing no such thing.
I mean attention from the after effects. Dominate doesn't let you go "You don't have AIDS"
>in the same way we avoid not getting hit by cars
If we're going to use that metaphor, then a vampire going out into sunlight is more like an idiot running across a freeway. Sunlight isn't restricted to a very narrow location (roads).
>getting hit by a car isn't some grievous burden
...did you mean something more along the lines of "thing to be worried about"?
>>47051566
Except that she's not poorly handled. You're acting like she's a detailed character who's deep conflictless backstory is told throughout hundreds of stories. It's 114 words. You don't know her life or struggles, other than that she was born in Mogadishu and now works as a Silver Ladder Lictor and hunts Demons. She's not even some fucking out and proud lesbian. What, do you think every woman from Mogadishu should have acid burns? What possible reason could you have for saying that a write up that is no different than any of the others is "poorly handled"?
It would be different if she were a Houston girl because you wouldn't be bitching that a Muslim woman was one of the iconics.
>>47051444
See, pretty words that I would love to back wholeheartedly. However, outside out hugboxes, we still live in a world where - and I know this is a radical concept - those with radical and/or extreme views don't give a damn how much sense this makes to us. In some areas of Africa, you will be killed for not being native. They kill eachother for differing views. I, as a Christian, would be imprisoned if not beheaded if I was silly enough to go preach in the majority of the Middle-East. Girls (and boys) of all ages have been horrifically abused in Germany, and little has been done about it.
There is tolerance and a healthy difference of opinion. And then there is putting your fingers in your ears and singing loudly while someone raised to think you are less than dirt and your wife is very pretty stabs you.
>Just because the setting is dark doesn't mean you have to focus on the hyperreality that anyone that stands out will without question be beaten down, harrassed, raped, or outright murdered at every turn.
That's actually exactly what it means. That's been a strong defining point of most dark scifi and fantasy for decades, and also history itself. You don't think films about young black guys growing up int he hood can be dark? Paint that with tolerance rainbows, and suddenly you aren't watching a dark tragedy anymore. You are watching how a perfectly unoprressed kid becomes the next Bill Gates.
To anybody who's tried to follow Dave's guide to consilium creation, I have to ask; how does one handle coming up with Shadow Names for large amounts of characters?
I'm having enough trouble trying to decide how many Mages I should actually have(currently at 104, which seems like too few, since I'm planning to use the LA setting from the core book), let alone thinking of each of them as individuals and figuring out a name for them.
>>47051642
>I mean attention from the after effects. Dominate doesn't let you go "You don't have AIDS"
Unless you're some diseased wretch, you shouldn't have AIDS in the first place. And even if you do, and even if your bite results in a successful transference of it, it's months if not years for that to leave any signs, long after you've ceased having any involvement.
It's not like you bite someone, drain 1-2 Vitae, clean up the marks, and then they collapse as their skin falls off and screams.
>If we're going to use that metaphor, then a vampire going out into sunlight is more like an idiot running across a freeway. Sunlight isn't restricted to a very narrow location (roads).
Show me a freeway that can be safely run across for hours and I'll be pretty impressed.
>...did you mean something more along the lines of "thing to be worried about"?
I mean it's so unlikely it isn't a threat worth spending time preparing for. It takes a minimum of effort to avoid, and even when exposed to situations where it's a risk (crossing the street), you're still probably not going to suffer any.
Much like sunlight. You can be in it for a long time.
>>47051723
One of those random name generators?
Amatajakki how do I make this character in Mummy?
>>47051444
>The society becomes "easily offended" at a flag that's only history is racism--and that particular version of the flag doesn't even have any justification, since it was used as part of the Southern Strategy--because it's a symbol of oppression. It's a symbol of terrorism. You can't spend a post talking about how dangerous certain ideologies are while ignoring ones with dangerous history
Anyone getting mad at the Confederate Flag is retarded, btw.
>>47051657
Not all anons are the same anon buddy. She's poorly handled because growing up in a traumatic environment like civil war Mogadishu where one might expect a violent death if you put the wrong foot forward is a lot more a definitive character trait that what the writers lingered on. And what they did cover damages that angle by being both really twee and not really resembling how the well-off live in places like Mogadishu at the best of times.
>>47051485
>your understanding of what causes people are championing seems incredibly narrow and uneducated.
Strong argument there. I'm not invested enough to call you out on that
I will ask you this though. Do you, honestly, think it's beyond the scope of reality that some well-meaning college student who sees a news report of someone being arrested/covered in acid for being gay, and seeks to champion a flash-mob rally in Mecca (or somewhere like it, as that may be difficult to pull of)? And do you not see how such blind idealism could result in a bloodbath?
>>47051745
>letting a flag only loved by cowards and traitors fly
>>47051739
Lion-Headed Mesen-Nebu.
>>47051768
The US is itself a nation rooted in treachery; to chastise the Confederacy for being traitors while ignoring our origins is rank hypocrisy. It's not being a traitor you oppose, it's losing a war.
And that's fine. Winning does indeed let you do whatever you want. But there's no good reason to be offended by someone losing.
>>47051768
Remove yank
>>47051224
you sound like an old man wringing his hand over a problem that isn't real
millenials are ruining this country
>>47051814
Gramps you old people are just too problematic, we're gonna have to let you go.
