Horse equivalents that aren't giant birds? Special interest in animals native to the Western hemisphere - I've been playing with the idea of transplanting the "standard fantasy setting" into an American geography rather than a European one. Greg Stolze already did that with Ardwin, but that just didn't have horses and I do like mounted knights.
Do camels count? They are still used in Africa and the near East. Going into something a little less common, you can use buffaloes, bisons (the European Bison nearly went extinct, but used to be quite frequent), elks, and possibly - if you stretch it a bit - brown bears. If you extend "Western"a bit, antelopes and gazelles can work as well.
>>47037512
We have giant goats in our game.
It did start in a mountainous region.
>>47037512
What's wrong with llamas?
>>47037686
a bear would probably be a lot easier to train than an elk, desu
elk are huge, dumb, and violent
>>47037722
So are camels
Giant turtles.
>>47037716
They can't climb trees.
>>47037716
They make an annoying sound.
>>47037512
The problem here is that there really sort of aren't horse equivalents in real life, just horses. You'd look at something like zebra and say "oh, it looks like a horse and runs like one, it's close enough" and then find out it's so temperamental that it's basically impossible to break and tame, and even if you do, it has no social behaviour, so you have to do this for every single zebra you can't raise from birth. CGP Grey did an interesting video on domestication and the differences it created between Old World and New World civilisations, if you want to look that up. I get it's a fantasy setting and you're free to fudge some stuff as you wish, but if you're going for realism, you're mostly looking at beasts of burden in the form of maybe ox-like buffalo or bison, along with llamas for mountainous regions. Any "cavalry" is going to be exceptionally rare and, setting dependent, probably druidic or shamanic in some way.
>>47037716
They are too weak to even carry proper baggage, not to mention grown-up person. Lack of proper pack animals is often contributed to lack of wheel in Americas, since there was no animal strong enough to pull carriages. Meaning they've could invent wheel, but had no real use for it.
>>47037868
>what are camels
>>47037868
Llamas are AWFUL beasts of burden, since they are amazingly weak. Adult person with proper backpack can carry more without a fuss than a llama.
>>47037967
If you're referring to the Inca, than the most commonly given reason for them never going for the wheel is that the terrain the lived in (which is to say, the Andes) would've made them worthless. For what other civilizations have used wagons, the Incas just used pack llamas, who can climb stairs and navigate rocks better than any cart.
>>47037967
they actually did invent the wheel, but used it mostly for toys and such. Really interesting stuff. Did a campaign based on bronze age societies, nearly wrote a 50 page paper on the subject on accident.
>>47037969
Alright, I'll accept camels, but that still makes only two species out of however many vaguely equine animals which are appropriate for riding. That and they're not American native, which is what OP wanted to focus on.
>>47037981
I'm more focused on the plains surrounding Andes. Perfectly flat surfaces, but llamas can carry, not pull, so carts weren't of much use. Especially since their anatomy makes it complicated with harness, so... yeah.
Llamas suck as pack animals and are even worse as beast of burden in general. But they provide great wool and can withstand things that would kill sheeps, which is nice.
>>47037993
I know that. And that's why I point out there is a huge difference between knowing wheel (duh, it's not really THAT hard) and having real, practical use for it. Kind of Hero of Alexandria and his steam toys - all the principles on the table, but no real use for them aside toys.
>>47037512
>Alpaca
>Mounted
>In full armour
The poor thing broke its spine three times in the process
>>47037979
But they're still extra carrying capacity on top of your backpack. Also, where are you getting these figures for comparison? Most non-nobles from Medieval-type time periods are not going to have the same sort of nutrition (and hence muscle/bone development) as modern man, and probably no comparable fibers or other bagmaking materials except leather, so if you're referring to modern adult makes and proper backpacks, the comparison may not be as unfavourable as you think.
You know, "horses" weren't exactly great riding animals either when humans first encountered them, whoever knows how many hundreds of thousands of years ago. Just like the "dogs" made shit companions and the "cows" weren't all that something for milking. All the animals we know today as domesticated (or even that people have known as domesticated in late prehistory) are the result of thousands and thousands of generations of selective breeding, to the point that many of them aren't even considered the same species as their progenitors anymore. You could use the same logic to say that in this world llamas have been domesticated for so long that they've been bred into usefulness, but in that case:
A. They're not exactly llamas anymore.
B. You're going to have to assume humans have existed in the Americas for a hundred thousand years, rather than the sixteen thousand or so they did in real life (it having been the last continent to be colonized by humans). The effects this might've had on its ecology, culture, etc. are so vast it most likely wouldn't even look like anything we imagine as America anymore, except geographically.
>>47037967
Well to be fair the Incans invented roads, but since the terrain is mountainous and hilly as fuck, and they made steep inclines, they see wheels as inconvenient for travel.
There most likely were horses in the Americas when humans first arrived. They just went the way of the Australian megafauna: in Eurasia, animals suited for eventual domestication have evolved alongside humans since forever, building up a proper hostility towards them as the humans became better hunters. In continents where humans have never been seen before, only to arrive with their hunting skills already sharpened in Eurasia, they quickly drove all the viable animals extinct, leaving them with no real candidates for domestication millennia down the line. It pretty much doomed entire continents to the stone age until the 18th century or so.
>>47038069
Anon, the amount of muscles has literally nothing to do with the subject. The way llamas got their legs, spine and ribcage bones alligned means they simply can't carry much.
>>47038124
This. It is theorized that if the mass extinction of 30,000 years ago hadn't happened in Australia, the Aboriginals could've gone somewhere. As it is, they literally had no way to develop out of the hunter-gatherer stage until the Europeans showed up. Shouldn't have taken advantage of all those docile diprotodonts, eh?
Fun fact: marupials generally have two penises/vaginas. They are utilized in tandem during intercourse.
Australia is truly mother nature's recycle bin.
>>47038157
>diprotodon
What the fuck am I googling
>>47038201
An elephant sized koala.
>>47037512
Fantasy occasionally makes use of domesticated elk/moose.
>>47037512
Bison and stags, if we're only allowing real-world animals from the Americas.
In prehistory, there may have been giant sloths in the Americas; I'm not sure.
>>47039949
Yup. Megatheria, they were called.
>>47039949
>>47039981
>riding a sloth
>an animal so slow it's name is synonymous with extreme laziness
>an animal whose natural defense mechanism is that it moves so little its fur gets covered in moss and it looks like a rock
Wouldn't you get there faster riding a turtle?
>>47037967
Diamond detected
>>47037512
Virtually any prehistoric megafauna in my opinion; Hyenadons, Entelodons, Andrewsarchuses, Woolly Rhinos...
>>47040020
It's one of the few things Diamond got right, mainly because it's one of the few things where he got by actual studies on the poor llama rather than his feels about north south transmission (the entirety of the crop package used by the Five Nations and the more sedentary algonquian peoples south of the great lakes came from way, way south of there and still thrived in much of Canada and the NE)
For actual mounts though? Reindeer would have been the shit as a native proto mount and there's hints of the inuit trying locally to domesticate the north american deer variants, but founder effect is a bitch when you live in the literal worst climate for humans to thrive in. The finns and lapps pulled it off, though.
IIRC in 3.5 the joke went that dire badger and dire weasels were perfect mounts for gnomes because they could specifically talk to them and the ferret is a domesticated species.
Anything porcine, as a mount, is kinda retarded. Riding dogs could be bred in small races, but have the problem of needing meat, which makes them expensive to feed (same general issue as griffon riders).
>>47037512
How about giant reptiles?
>>47037512
Really large Maine Coons?
Finding an animal isn't the problem, it's your world. Just say there are horses in Nonamerica. Your problem is considering the possible implications of their existence. Horses mean more than just mounted knights (though they certainly mean that, and that by itself means a great deal - to give just a tiny example, the existence of mounted warriors for whom it is practical to wear heavy metal armor is theorized to have given Euroasian societies an incentive to further invest in metallurgy and mechanics). Horses mean faster, easier trade and communication between communities, leading to the creation of larger societies than isolated tribes and promoting cultural and technological advances. They mean less labor-intensive construction and agriculture. They mean a revolution in industry and warfare.
The introduction of horses to native societies have transformed some into unrecognizability in the hundred few years since its happened. If you'd given them millennia, there's no telling how the Americas could've looked like. Sioux eventually domesticating the bison and building stone cities on the plains? A united Southwestern empire? Mexica who, having access to better livestock, have never come to rely on cannibalism for survival, a practice which has never evolved into the custom of human sacrifice which has fueled the growth of their empire?
>you will never ride this to battle
>>47042636
>>47042656
Carnivores make shitty livestock/riding animals. Too expensive to feed. Same reason the idea of riding bears from higher up wouldn't work. One of the reasons horses worked as well as they did was that you could (further back enough, of course, we're talking literal stone age in here) take care of them by pretty much "stopping using them for a few hours".
>>47037512
No, there aren't. They would have been domesticated.
That being said, it's fantasy, I don't see with the problem with saying that there is a slightly large bred of llamas that does the trick.
>>47042695
On the other hand, Maine Coons can be trained, are loyal to the humans they bond with, intelligent and their predatory abilities make them excellent battle mounts. Plus, their thick fur would act as additional armor.
>>47042751
Yes but they're also too expensive to feed. Case in point, there's no real historical precedence for humans having ever bred predatory animals as mounts. Like >>47042733 said, one of the most important things to think about when trying to come up with an alternate history is "if _______ sounds so sensible, how come it's never actually happened?". Usually you'll find out that it's because it's not actually that sensible.
>>47037512
>Horse equivalents that aren't giant birds?
Give me chocobos or give me death.
Tanks. Very small tanks that you ride on top of. That run off of magic.
Yakul. Whatever that is.
>>47042952
Red elk, according to Miyazaki.
>>47042931
Tankettes?
>>47042980
Maybe a little bit bigger. I was thinking of something like an FT-17 without the turret.
Riding elks. Bison for cow equivalents.
>>47037512
You could have extraordinarily large dogs.
>>47037994
Camels are literally from North America.
My setting does giant moths as riding animals, but I just read the thread and that's probably not exactly what you're looking for.
>>47037967
Horses were also too small to do anything but pull carts for a long while. Breeding could make Llamas viable.
>>47038184
So do all reptiles. And?
It's already big. Scale it bigger with magic and...
>>47038228
Some deer are used similarly in the real world, it's just that riding them is rare.
>>47044536
They ought to be bigger. EMBIGGEN THE DEER
>>47042379
I thought about that as well, but it seems likely that a giant reptile like a komodo dragon or crocodile would just roll over, get up and kill and eat you.
>>47044563
You don't know what you ask, traveler.
>>47042379
>>47044854
But that doesn't mean it isn't a cool idea; just not a realistic one.
>>47037512
EVERYBODY NEEDS A CAMEL!
>>47044896
Can I get one discounted and slightly used?
>>47044896
Wouldn't it be a camelope, if you're talking about the Americas?
>not having your officers led into battle by war hippos
what the fuck are you doing
There is no cavalry to dire weasel cavalry
>>47037512
The noble giant capybara! I've always thought they had a stoic, regal look for a marshland knight needing a semi-aquatic mount. Also, they're super-chill around people.
>>47048082
Graham?
>>47044859
>>47048153
No, but I'm glad to hear I apparently have like-minded fellows.
The camelope never went extinct and was domesticated by humans. Done.
>>47045027
What an expression from someone riding a fucking weasel
Just look at some now-extinct animals that lived in the Americas. Like dire wolves. Or mastodons. Or giant sloths. Giant sloth cavalry? I think we all know the answer to that question, Anon.
>>47038157
>the Aboriginals could've gone somewhere
>>47048491
>Giant sloth cavalry
A terrible notion.
>>47048082
>>47048491
A world where the noble Capybara Knights protect their marshlands from the depredations of the foul Sloth Riders, whose arboreal mounts creep silently among the treetops, waiting to ambush their unsuspecting prey.
>>47037868
>CGP Grey
>>47044967
Technically, Morocco and Algeria are also in the Western hemisphere. Granted, not in America, but I imagine camels could live in dry bits of Mexico or the southern USA easily enough.
Heck, there are hundreds of thousands of camels in Australia. If a species can live and thrive there, it can live anywhere.
This thread needs more wacky Texas history
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps
>>47049401
Beat me to it
I wanted to use some kind of Not!Horse in my setting.
I was thinking something along the lines of a bio-engineered super animal that's similar to the horse, but much faster, more resilient and more versatile - enough so that they compete in many ways with automobiles for personal use and the transport of small amounts of goods. But I don't know what I'd want it to look like.
What ever you use instead of a horse, I find that it's important to buy them from a good vendor.
>>47042695
Bears are almost never carnivores or even mostly carnivores (Polar Bears are the only ones that are), the problem with bears is that they can't survive on roughage and need to forage vegetables and berries and fruits whereas horses can just munch grass and leaves and be fine.
>>47040005
Giant Sloths were actually pretty mean mother fuckers and quite fast for their size. They acted far more like grizzly bears than sloths.
>>47049401
I'm an ardent Texas History buff, and I'm ashamed that I didn't know we tried to make use of camels.seems like they might have actually been quite useful out in West Texas from the Wiki.
In a similar vein, turns out SE Texas and the Gulf Coast are actually really great climate for Elephants.
>>47037512
>transplanting the "standard fantasy setting" into an American geography rather than a European one
Didn't read the thread, but you might not know the original Greyhawk setting was a fantasy version of the Americas.
>According to molecular data, the New World and Old World camelids diverged 11 million years ago.[44] In spite of this, these species can still hybridize and produce fertile offspring.[45] The cama is a camel–llama hybrid bred by scientists who wanted to see how closely related the parent species were.[46] Scientists collected semen from a camel via an artificial vagina and inseminated a llama after stimulating ovulation with gonadotrophin injections.[47] The cama has ears halfway between the length of camel and llama ears, no hump, longer legs than the llama, and partially cloven hooves.[48][49] According to cama breeder Lulu Skidmore, cama have "the fleece of the llamas" and "the strength and patience of the camel".[47] Like the mule, camas are sterile, despite both parents having the same number of chromosomes.
Neat.
Been playing a lot of this game. Just go full ham and add dinosaurs and ancient mammels.
>Mounted raptor packs roaming the forests as aggressive skirmishers.
>Mountain men prefer heavier saber cats for ambushing in the craggy terrain.
>The plains tribe just added their third brontosaur to their trade caravan.
>River folk have a pod of Ichthyosaurus to herd fish and have rigged saddles for short jaunts up and down river.
Other honerable mentions include Wooly Rhinos and giant sized beezlebuffo frogs that you straddle yourself too and hang on for dear life. If you like weird mounts this is your game. And someone should totally adapt a tg version of it.
>>47037512
>yaks
>giant boars
>giant snails
>giant land bats
>tigers
>giant beetles
>motherfucking GUAR
>>47049983
>post-apoc Texarkana gets conquered by Hannibal on Elephants
Fund it
>>47050082
How surefooted is it?
>>47037698
Does the giant goat have no name?
>>47037512
In realistic terms, horses and camels are pretty much the only good riding animals. Elephants too I suppose, but I'd almost consider them a different category.
In fantasy terms, pretty much anything that's big enough works
>Elk
>Moose
>Bison
>Bears
>Giant goats
>Giant boars
>Giant insects
>Giant spiders
>Giant lizards
>Giant canines/felines
>Giant kangaroos maybe?
>>47050322
We could call him "Bob."
"Bob the giant goat."
>>47050624
I played a campaign in not-Australia, where the child king of a local tribe rode in the pouch of an above sized kangaroo.
The kangaroo was also a trained bodyguard and kicked the shit out of us when we tried to start something.
How bout this crazy fucker?
Chalicothere, part horse, part gorilla, herbivore, probably ate grass and leaves, had long hooked claws. Had to be musclebound to carry their odd physiche. Long arms might have been useful for throwing things.
Slap a harness on these things and now you have pack animals that will take potshots at enemies with rocks and stones as you fight.
>>47050977
Forgot pic.
>>47037512
The idea of humans domesticating and breeding "Riding Bison" is awesome, and should definitely be a focal point of your world building.
>>47051015
Jesus, how would you even stop a bison knight charge? It's just too much mass.
>>47037512
Are you talking about realistically? Because there are some problems with a human trying to ride a bison or wild boar, but if not, then it would become much more reasonable.
Moose, reindeer, and bison are the first animals which come to mind as available in North America. Only reindeer could be domesticated, from what I remember. If you don't mind being a bit silly, bears (both grizzly and polar) are also options. There are, or were, wolves all over the place as well, although you'd need an exceptionally small individual or an exceptionally large wolf for a mount.
Mountain lions are somewhat well known for North America, and jaguars are well known in South America.
I don't really recall what other animals populated the South American continent. Most of that is jungle and mountains, so unless you want a python, you probably aren't going to get much luck. I would assume that the Incas had a number of goats, but those aren't any better than the goats that exist.
>>47037868
The main reason that zebras were not domesticated while horses were is because horses follow a pack leader - a person could rope a single horse and end up with a dozen animals as a result. Zebras will just scatter if one gets caught, so it was too resource intensive to catch enough to domesticate them.
>>47051372
I suppose that if we rewind and change history a bit, we could add woolly mammoths to the list of NA animals as well. They could at least be tamed, if not actually domesticated.
>>47051153
With long boar Spears, a good shield wall, a bunch of mounted archers, and a lot of luck and/or faith
>>47050994
What the fuck, nature
Giant Goats? Pros of a horse, just different
>>47045003
And I for one am scared shitless.
>>47051648
>native american bison horse archers that charge into melee after softening up the enemy
YES
>>47051153
With the giant boar knight charge.
Ain't nothing fucks with boars, the ornery goddamn fucks. I always gave my orcs dire boars instead of dire wolves/wargs. Not only does it make sense to me that an orc would empathize more with a pig and domesticate them before a wolf sue to many shared physical traits, but boars and orcs also share the quality of both being stubborn, vicious fucks who are a combination of too angry and too stupid to die long after a mortal blow has been struck against them.
>>47054802
Let's not forget that feral swine are one of the closest things to a greentide of Orcs IRL, who must be purged with impunity
>>47037512
Camels, large lizards, large lions.
>>47050082
I stopped at "artificial vagina". Some paths science was not meant to tread.
>>47043964
... it choked out of hypoxia
>>47055204
Isn't this what peopke do for most semen collection?
>>47049183
Daily reminder the only modern wild population of camels lives in Australia and doing just about fine. And they were transported there in mid-19th century, then some escaped and other were set free after no longer useful.
Fast-forward century later and by 70s Australia had one of the biggest herds of camels on this planet. And the only one wild.
>>47049709
Because camels can't walk over certain types of terrains. Like - most of them. They don't have proper hooves, so it's extremely easy for them to cut the soft pads of their legs.
This contributed to shitload of problems in history, like trade going over MUCH longer routes to keep them on sand and not gravel.
They would have been accustomed to traveling a long ways on foot and making do with simple provisions. A modern hiker carries a lot of shit just to be comfortable, and for a lot of them, their 10 mile hike is as much exercise as they'll do all year.
Go big or go home.
What about one of them elephant predecessors that were considerably smaller? I don't have a pic of those at the moment.
>>47054908
Yup. They even refuse to stop growing and cat survive by eating goddamn near anything.
Boars are fucking scary and woefully underused
>>47048851
what's wrong with him?
Since most regular animals don't exist in my setting, we resort to an all-purpose animal for the world. It gives food, milk, leather, wool, feathers, ivory and serves as both transport and battle. It also looks cool too.
>>47055241
That's not what my gf uses - in a commercial setting it's just more efficient to directly stimulate the prostate with a strong electrical current.
>>47056102
>his gf uses a giant electric dildo
AI techs a lewd!
>>47038084
Why do you assume humans had to have been in the Americas for so long? Domestication in the Old World only began like 5000-7000 years ago, by which point the entire landmass was well populated by humans.
>>47057427
I think anon is saying that the only way the megafauna in the Americas would have survived early Man is if early Man had already reached the point where "tame this animal and ride it" made more sense than "kill this animal and eat it" before all the megafauna had been killed.
Domestication of camels apparently only occurred around 1500 BC.
Dwarves on goats, elves on elks, uruk-hai on wargs ...
>>47055309
You've never gotten a camel from Crazy Hassan, my friend, my camels go everywhere, sand, gravel, clay, loam, it matters not. A camel from Crazy Hassan is an All-terrain Camel! Buy now and I'll even through in the aquatic package that will let you adventure to even the most remote islands!
>>47037512
Giant dogs.
>>47058506
Giant weiner dogs
>>47059191
Giant wieners.
>>47059285
Giant dog wieners.
>>47059352
Dog wiener giants.
>>47059285
>>47059456
Giants with wiener dogs for wieners.
>>47037512
>animals native to western hemisphere
Horses
>>47061781
Giants with wiener dog wieners for dogs.
>>47037868
>The problem here is that there really sort of aren't horse equivalents in real life, just horses
Hell, for a good chunk of history, horses weren't even good horse equivalents. The reason why people had chariots is because horses were just to weak to reliably carry a human rider.
>>47062043
Horses are not native to North or South America.
>>47044854
Varanids and crocodilians are more than smart enough to get the gist of "hey, maybe don't kill this particular guy yet since he gives me food". It'd take a shit ton of time, but one could potentially be conditioned to understand that carrying shit around = more food. The issue is that you may not survive the entire conditioning process since both animals are still unpredictable as all fuck and will happily devour you the moment you show any signs of weakness or inattentiveness. Think the raptors from Jurassic World.
>>47048275
YOU FOOL, YOU KNOW NOT WHAT FORCES YOU MEDDLE WITH!
>>47062550
BUT HOW FAR CAN A DEER BE EMBIGGENED? WHAT IS THE BIGGENEST DEER CAN GET?
>>47042751
What is it with people that own fluffy ass cats and their constant need to wear sweaters and scarves? Am I the only one who's ever noticed this?
>>47044854
The biggest issue with riding a Komodo dragon or a crocodile is that they have pretty piss-poor endurance. Reptiles in general do not process fatigue poisons very well. They can pretty easily kill themselves struggling; a sustained sprint or a long battle would do it.
Of course, if there's MAGIC involved, whatever.
>>47062603
THIS IS AN ANSWER YOU SHOULD NOT SEEK.
>>47037993
would you mind sharing it, anon ?
>>47037512
A good watch for what animals are plausible to be domesticated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmjnioNulo
>>47062364
Yeah they are.
Specially-bred, sleek and speedy cows.
The greyhounds of cows.
>>47063082
Cows.
>>47063082
>>47062613
Sympathy.
>>47063064
they really aren't. The mustang herds out west are all descended from horses brought by Europeans.
>>47063064
No they aren't, horses as we know them were domesticated in the middle east and were brought over by Spaniards. Before then the only domesticated animals in the Americas were dogs, llamas, and alpacas.
http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/ma05/indepth/
>>47063257
And where did those horses come from?
>>47063289
>those horses come from?
the Eurasian steppes, originally.
>>47063289
Europe.
>>47063289
Eurasia
>>47063289
>brought by the Europeans
>by the Europeans
>the Europeans
>Europeans
>And where did those horses come from?
If you're trying to be cute and point out those pygmy precursors to horses that Terror Birds used to feed on in South America then i'd like to point out that those were just one branch of an extensive family. They were related to, but in no way direct descendants of horses.
>>47063404
>descendants
Fug, meant to say ancestors.
>>47063404
>descendants
Are you having a rough day anon? That's a pretty big typo you made there.
>>47063426
Did you not see the post directly after? But yes, the day has been rough anon.
>>47063426
I could easily see him trying to say the modern horses ore the dependents but changing his mind and saying that the pigmy ones are ancestors and getting that word swapped.
>>47063289
Either a retard or a troll.
>>47063082
>>47063170
>>47063182
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR1ETroomlg
For a while I toyed with idea of small character using medium one as a mount. Sadistic Halfling riding on and whipping masochistic Elf, for instance.
You wouldn't have trouble fitting into dungeons.
>>47064762
Might have issues fitting into society, though.
>>47064762
that would work fine but only if it was a piggyback or on the shoulders ride
>>47037512
Giant mountain goat.
Buffalo.
Great elk.
Moose.
>>47037512
Water Buffalos with fantasy strength and stamina
>>47055270
Then I believe Crazy Hassan would just try to sell you somthing from his Roadmaster Camels or All-Terrain Camel series
>>47064762
What kind of dungeons are you clearing? Do you have Oglaf for a DM?
>>47065338
Why not cows?
>>47065898
Looks silly.
>>47063404
>>47063529
Horses evolved in North America and survived there until about the end of the last ice age. That's all there is to it.
>>47055204
should've kept going
>stimulating ovulation with gonadotrophin injections
>>47055216
Give it 'real' lungs then. Christ.
>>47037512
It's been said a couple times, but my favourite by far is giant dogs. You've got your working dogs like the Burmese Mountain dogs or the Mastiff, your getaway greyhounds, husky caravans, forest corgis. Even normal stuff like police bloodhounds would be cooler if they could be the horse and the dog at the same time.
I imagine cowboys bedding down for the night, using their Collie or German Shepherd like a couch. Postal workers riding Greyhounds.
>>47037512
>>47037868
>>47037967
>>47037994
>>47039949
>>47042655
>>47042733
>>47048491
>>47051372
>>47062364
>>47063257
>>47063271
>>47063306
>>47063307
>>47063400
>>47063404
>>47063420
>>47063529
Horses evolved in the Americas. See O. C. Marsh's work on it for starters. This is old news.
>>47038124
>>47062043
>>47063064
>>47063289
>>47068694
These anons know their paleontology.
>>47069346
It's weird that one of the dogs in that image is 2x normal size and the other one is 10x normal size.
>>47069834
That is weird. Maybe one is a horrifying magic mutant.
>>47070211
I'd let her ride my snake.
If you know what I mean.
I mean my penor.
>>47062603
>>47062716
>>47070313
What is this from?
>>47070495
A short comic on tumblr exploring the question of "What if the ocean was a forest?"
It's drawn by iguanamouth.
North America was teaming with megafauna right up until the end of the last ice age. It was on par with Africa in terms of biodiversity, and had everything from camels, cheetahs, lions, horses and dire wolves to ground sloths, glyptodonts, giant bears, saber tooths, mammoths and terror birds.
Just have the ice age animals survive until the people start making societies, and you can have all sorts of possibilities. If you keep it mostly historical, The horses and camels would have been domesticated as pack animals, while bison, peccaries, and maybe some of the antelope could have been used as food animals. Mammoths and mastodons could be used by your notHannibal or india counterparts.
>>47069583
This is too bad. Marsh would feel horrible no one cares about all his work. At least no one mentioned how Cope was better or anything, right?
>>47050082
>>47051153
>Jesus, how would you even stop a bison knight charge? It's just too much mass.
That's the guiding principle behind Trollkin Long Riders in Warmahordes. Rather than doing a normal cavalry charge, they can just barrel into the enemy line with their bison, knock everyone on their asses, and then follow-up and murder the stragglers with their long-handled axes.
Also trollkin can't ride horses because they panic when they smell a troll because they instinctively register it as a predator.
The foremost riders in my setting are the Menejadi Free Lancers, who are sort of near-Eastern Persian nomad-type shepard dudes. They ride around on a specialty breed of ram, the Greater Menejadi Riding Baphomet.
Riders from other kingdoms still prefer their horses, citing the Baphomet's generally unpleasant temperament and smell.
>>47037512
>Horse equivalents that aren't giant birds?
Hulking retards.
>>47037512
I suppose some of the larger dinosaurs might do. More of an elephant replacement I guess.
>>47076696
>>47070313
Of of context, this looks like the child telling the giant deer off.
Prowlgrins are the best
Prove me wrong
>>47076696
So, hill giants?
>>47080552
They get killed by everything all the time.
>>47044859
The Swedes and the Russians attempted moose cavalry. They were not suitable, though I've heard differing reports as to if it was temperament & train-ability or the skeleton &musculature not supporting rider + armor.
>>47088309
I'd guess both, but more on the temperament of a bull moose.
