Was Melkor really as much of a dick as the elves described him to be?
>>47023914
He was as much a pussy as he was a dick.
>>47023914
Well, he did sing discord into Illuvatar's chorus because it wasn't a feature length solo about his dreamy voice.
Said discord pretty much fucked up everything from then on out.
So yeah, Special Snowflake extraordinaire.
>>47023914
the original edgelord
He invented absolutely everything unpleasant, except for spiders, and did his best to ruin everything nice if he couldn't manage stealing it.
>>47024671
he a qt tho
>>47023914
He literally introduced evil into existence to rebel against his father and brothers
Were Feanor's kids dicks as the elves described them to be?
>>47023914
He literally tried to end all sources of light just because.
>>47024732
Sauron is qter
>>47024744
Yes, but Feanor did nothing wrong.
>>47025147
I'm pretty sure Feanor invented armor and weapons just to threaten his half-brother.
>>47025093
Morgoth is clearly the cuter of the two in that picture and I really hate myself for saying that now.
>>47023914
Considering that, in-universe, the Middle-Earth continuity is framed as multiple history books with multiple authors that Tolkien merely abridged and translated, and practically everything written about Melkor by contemporaries is supposed to be from an elvish perspective, that's a dead-end question because no conflicting source of information exists to cast doubt on the accuracy of elvish history.
The best you can do is claim the whole story is a lie because you think elves are liars, but you still have no way of knowing what actually happened.
No one anywhere feels anything for Melkor except utter loathing or abject fear. Even Sauron doesn't want him back.
>>47025757
But I KNOW elves are liars.
>>47025802
That may be, but elves aren't the only one who hated him.
>>47025147
>feanor dindu nuffin
>>47025905
pft, typical kinslayer.
>>47023914
>Was Melkor really as much of a dick as the elves described him to be?
He was consumed by pride. He is very much a Lucifer character in the vein he was portrayed in Paradise Lost. He realized his potential, but at the same he became consumed by pride, which in his mind gave him the right to manipulate others, and similarly to Milton's Lucifer, ended up being turned into resentful monster.
It's essentially about stepping out of line, thinking too much of yourself and using that arrogance as a justification for disturbing the harmony of the world and forcing your will outside of where you were original given the right to do so.
In Tolkien, evil is generally identified with mere denial of free will to others: Melkor was the first one to do so, the first one to disturb the original harmony, and as such, first one to introduce the very concept of evil to the world.
>>47025757
>The best you can do is claim the whole story is a lie because you think elves are liars, but you still have no way of knowing what actually happened.
That is a really bullshit and really relativistic perspective. Tolkien was everything but a moral relativist, and Silmarilion makes that account very clear.
>>47026320
Well, yeah, which is one of many, many reasons why you wouldn't do that. Did you even read the post you just replied to?
>>47025147
"Firespirit" in a world where elves consist of Airelves, Seaelves and Landelves how did this red sheep pop up among those three flocks?
It was preordained by the creative music.
The discord and then the triumph of harmony was a given part of the scheme, and Melkor was that instrument of it.
>>47025794
Then why did he make humans worship Morgoth, and make human sacrifices to him?
>>47027729
that sounds like it would fall under the "abject fear," desu senpai
>>47027268
Every elf, human, dwarf etc has a spirit of "fire" Feanor just had a particularly bright "flame"
>>47028134
There is an answer.
How about the precious Three Silmarills represent the eyes and the translucent parietal soft spot that is present until the infantile skull plates grow to closure. (Physiological metaphors continue like that, who wants a few?)
>>47027985
Sounds more like reverence
>>47032670
>what is fear as in fear of the lord
Also, the second definition of "abject" according to Google is
>(of a person or their behavior) completely without pride or dignity; self-abasing.
which seems to me to be pretty coherent in the context of Morgoth-worship.
>>47024671
>He invented absolutely everything unpleasant, except for spiders
Spiders are friends, aka not unpleasant.
Yes but the rest of the Valar were even bigger dicks. They sulked in their rooms while letting Melkor ravage the entire planet, slaughter the race of men and turn elves into orcs. They could have stopped him but let him rampant in the name of petty revenge on the Noldor because Feanor decided to exercise free will and get his shit back from that thieving Morgoth.
>>47036354
Explicitly wrong in setting. Let me explain this once again.
Imagine being a dwarf. You spend your time in the mines looking for shiny things, you tend to do well for yourself, and you stay out of surface problems. Your leaders are reasonable and have made peace for the most part in interest of profit. Because of this prosperity you get the chance to go on deep expeditions. One day this all falls apart when you find a thing.
Giant, black, countless legs, countless eyes, with a taste for swarming. They eat your friends. They spread white traps over all territory they claim. You can find victims they're saving for later wrapped up in the stuff. They're endlessly hungry. They don't seem to care about your axes or hammers either. Nobody knows what they even are. The only thing anyone knows is that they are HUNGRY.
You go to ask the elves. They're old and know about old stuff, right? But they don't believe you. They do not want to believe that the thing that Melkor could not control could procreate. They do not want to believe that the being that no god created, that was simply there before time as an entity of entropy and consumption, exists in droves just below the surface.
Dear anon, spiders are not friends in this setting. They are the endless old gods screaming and writhing against the song that is creation, clawing and biting to reduce all back to silence in their hunger. Their progenitor would devour the light of the world without even comprehending or caring for its importance. JRRT's kids hated spiders, and so he made them into the least knowable beings in his world. They are fear incarnate here.
>>47036615
Beautifully said anon, simply sublime.
>>47036615
Wasn't Tolkein himself also bitten and nearly killed by a poisonous spider as a child? His nurse had to suck the poison out if I remember correctly.
>>47037832
Here's what Wikipedia says about it:
>As a child, he was bitten by a large baboon spider in the garden, an event some think later echoed in his stories, although Tolkien admitted no actual memory of the event and no special hatred of spiders as an adult.
So who knows whether or not there's any connection to the spiders of Mirkwood/Shelob/Ungoliant. (It's a bit of a recurring theme, innit?)
>>47037878
>(It's a bit of a recurring theme, innit?)
not so much a recurring theme as they're all probably spawn of Ungoliant herself
