When asked about the reprint of Thoughtseize, this was Maro's response:
>Here’s the problem. The vast majority of cards that matter in Modern, that are powerful enough to be relevant in a format with that many cards, will horribly warp Standard. We experimented in Theros with Thoughtseize and it went quite badly.
Aside from that other hated ideas that Maro has played a roll in instrumenting in mtg are:
>Banning the word Man lands
>Trans, gay, autistic characters in the lore
>Lower reading leave in the Unchar... I mean Magic Story
>Listening to Tumblr
>Canceling the Modern Pro tour
>Making the act of saying this is gay at an event getting you a game lose or worse
>Pushing cosplay over new up and coming players
>More characters of diversity compared to the last time we visited that block
So folks is it all down hill from here? I mean you will still have MM3, but a box will be at $300 a piece because they have to put gofy in it again and the rest be shit for muh' draft players.
I know one man that can fix this issue
Oh man let's see who'll take this bai-
>>47021623
What a shock.
Right now is just a very dangerous time to be sane. The easy route is just paying lipservice until this SJW business blows over.
It's just a bad page in the history books, like when Magic had to downplay most of the occult business in its cards to avoid antagonizing fundamentalists. But, it's always just a push-and-pull kind of system, and the SJW business is already starting to receive plenty of public backlash, which is funny because it largely starts from SJW groups antagonizing each other.
>>47021560
I actually agree with no Modern at PT's. PT's are there to show off the latest set (or more realistically SELL the latest set). However, I would like it if bigger events like Worlds were Modern as a default, since I do feel Modern is the more competitive format. It has its place, but its place just isn't PT's, because that's not what PT's are trying to do.
>>47021560
>>47021623
>>47021560
>other hated ideas that Maro has played a roll in instrumenting in mtg are:
Mostly things only the immature would complain about.
Oh wait, this is MtG.
>>47022187
What part of "children's card game" you didn't understand?
>>47021560
>Maro repeating Development's current opinion
>a list of things that Maro is not involved with at all
He may be responsible for a lot of shit, but the only one on there that is true in any way, shape, or form is 'listening to tumblr', which is as true as 'listening to twitter' and 'listening to a bunch of stuff he gets sent'
>>47021560
>Fair
>That doesn't mean people will stop calling them manlands
>Literally who cares
>Literally who cares
>So write a letter you baby. That's the only format he gets questions from
>Fair
>It's arguably unsportsmanlike, but more to the point nobody says "That's gay" anymore
>Tha- Is this for real?
>Literally who cares?
Maro's a shit but you're clearly retarded.
>>47021560
>Memedern players
>>47022560
Some time in the last week there was an article highlighting three chicks who cosplayed MtG characters. I assume that's what has OP's panties in a knot.
>>47021623
>INTERNETEXPLORER
Leave.
>>47022307
now if only these complaints came from actual children
>>47022560
The reprint thing isn't "fair" because they don't even do it for supplementals. They have a prime way to provide much needed reprints without having them have to go through Standard, but they still don't do it. Thoughtseize in an EDH deck? Meh, who cares, Thoughtseize isn't even that great in EDH, given the amount of decks that can just pop off on any number of cards in their deck.
>more diversity
Is this even true? There's likely more females depicted in general, but that's been happening forever.
Innistrad already had black people and even asians. Hell, Champion of the Parish has olive skin, and he's one of the best known cards from innistrad.
Blacula has been in the game since Evincar. Take a seat.
>>47023488
I had meant that it was a fair complaint, not that MaRo was right. It occurred to me after I had posted that it was pretty ambiguous. My bad
>>47023626
>the people who whine about "forced diversity" in mtg don't actually play the game themselves
Does this come as a surprise to you?
>>47023626
>innistrad
>forever
Oh, come on now. 5 years ago is hardly the birth of the sun.
>>47023670
I guess both the people who whine about "forced diversity" are just as annoying as the people they claim to hate.
>>47023766
Yes, fellow normal person, I must agree.
>>47023646
I agree with you that not reprinting powerful Modern staples in Standard sets is the right call, but dear God, they are dropping on the ball on supplementals. They need to get their shit together, ESPECIALLY regarding the Masters series of sets.
>>47023725
I wasn't talking about innistrad at that point. Characters have been getting more and more diverse, coming from different backgrounds since the game's Inception.
His point was forcing diversity into "Return to" sets, of which there's only 3. RtR was just more ravnica, which was already diverse with its cast.
BfZ added in what, Tazri? And showed women in leadership roles, which they were already doing in Zendikar (Drana, Iona)
>>47023835
If you looked at Three Kingdoms and Kamigawa, or really the majority of the older settings, you would have noticed something strange.
>>47023835
>RtR was just more ravnica, which was already diverse with its cast.
Hell, Agrus Kos was black. The only problem I have with this "diversity" crap is that the one thing that separates the character from everyone else such as autism, skin colour (it doesn't make sense to describe black people as a separate race in a game with elves, goblins, dragons, etc.), or what they stick their dick in, becomes their defining characteristic, which is really more of a writer's issue than any great tumblr conspiracy.
Maro is right about powerful modern staples warping the fuck out of Standard. I hate to admit it, but it is true. The cost of standard is already too damn high, shit like useable Lily would be $150 a pop if she was standard legal. Probably $200. It would shut out casual players even harder. What they need to do is print supplemental product and just not give a fuck about the collectors.
The diversity garbage is half-assed. Alesha being a tranny has 0 impact on the lore and game. There was zero point to making her a tranny, outside of getting tumblr-brownie points. Like they wanted to say "Hey people! We're diverse! Look, we have trannies, lesbians and autistic people! No, they don't do anything with them or their disabilities, but we have them!" It's all just lip service. Do you honestly remember Alesha, Narset or Arlinn being anything but tranny, spergy and lesbian?
Cancelling the Modern PT is cool. Legacy shows that the less Wizards sticks their fingers into stuff, the better. The bigger issue is them disregarding the pros.
"This is gay" getting you penalized is stupid, especially when you KNOW rule sharks are gunning for this shit now. "You can't say X because that offends me!" All these diversity laws are ripe for abuse.
>>47023670
I'm as /pol/ as it gets, and I play the game. Dredge in Legacy no less. Fuck off with that "you're as bad as them" bullshit, it's condescending as all get out and frames milquetoast neutrality as the only way to live in the world. Fucking neutrals make me sick.
>>47024084
it's the kinda ham-fisted response which gets on my nerves.
I'm happy with having more characters of color or whatever we're supposed to say these days in leadership positions, positive representation, whatever. I'm not so happy with how clumsily WotC are trying to implement this 'diversity'.
>loud minority demands representation for minorities etc
>WotC realizes there is money to be made
>the lumbering corporate beast smashes a few things together, letting loose a loud howl of
>REPRESENTATION
>literally autistic planeswalker
Little impact and there for the cynical task of making more money, which I understand is a companies prerogative but doesn't make it much better for 95% of users.
>>47024210
>Alesha being a tranny has 0 impact on the lore and game.
Precisely. It has no impact on the game.
Thus, it doesn't matter.
Perhaps you should try putting away the red-tinted lens you view the world with, it'll make you look like less of a tool.
>>47023626
Last time time we were Innistrad we had like 9 pic in all the sets, now we have doubled that this set.
>>47024250
What's worse is they listen to THIS vocal minority (and yes, it IS a vocal minority as the majority doesn't give a fuck if a character is whatever) and not the other vocal minorities that suggest cool things, like going back to Kamigawa or Lorwyn.
>>47023626
not to mention the whole african-inspired block
>>47024308
If it doesn't matter that Alesha is a tranny, then why make her a tranny?
Anons, I don't understand this
>companies want to make money
>decide they want the sjw bucks
>start pandering to the hivemind, alienating their original fanbase
>sjws will inevitably move on to whatever the new flavour of the month is once their needs are met without a single fuck given
Sjws are indisputably hypocritical bandwagoning faggots, they'll forget about whatever is done to appease them in the pursuit of more "change". Not only that, but most sjws are poor illiterate shitheads, hence getting mad over words and trying to force change through crying? Why would any company want those faggots money? They don't even have money. I'm pretty much the perfect customer. I'll spend shitloads of money at a whim, zealously defend anything I like, and all I ask is consistent quality with a side of speculative investing. Instead they want to do a whole brand "image" thing to try and incorporate the definition of ungrateful ingrates. It isn't easier, it requires the exact same amount of effort for fucks sake.
>>47024540
If it doesn't matter, then why make Alesha a guy? Or why make Alesha a chick?
It all comes down to creator's choice. Wouldn't you agree that a creator has the right to create what they want how they want?
>>47024393
those two are not mutually exclusive, i.e. if WotC were thoughtful about inclusivity in their games then they could have interesting settings with a wide character range.
Except WotC aren't shoehorning in 'diversity' because they believe that lack of representation is oppression or that good representation of relatable minorities is the first step towards self-actualization, they're shoehorning it in because they think it will sell more packs. This may or may not be true, but it has ended up with characters like Alesha which ends up being slightly dis-satisfactory to nearly everyone.
>>47024629
Why make her a tranny?
>>47021560
>Canceling the Modern Pro tour
That's a good thing you fucking idiot.
>>47024608
How is making characters more inclusive alienating to their 'original fanbase'?
Nerds are pretty fucking weird.
>>47024667
Why make her anything else?
>>47024629
>If it doesn't matter, then why make Alesha a guy? Or why make Alesha a chick?
Because that wouldn't be supporting a radical and dangerous ideology that has statistically shown to actually result in worsening depression and leading to more suicides in people who are "confused" about their gender.
And, it also wouldn't be taking part in that largely political debate.
If the topic is that controversial, it's best to leave it alone instead of jumping on the current trend in order to make a quick buck before it collapses on itself.
>>47024677
because a bunch of magic playing nerds are racists who get stressed out about change
>>47024751
>If the topic is that controversial, it's best to leave it alone
That's hilarious coming from someone who refuses to leave it alone.
Nearly as hilarious as your logic being used to establish that WotC supports:
>murder
>demon worship
>arson
>consuming blood
>hot monkey sex
>public nudity
>human experimentation
>live-subject experimentation, at that
>fratricide
>eugenics
And dozens of other impossible things that can only happen in fantasy. Time control and whatnot.
>>47021725
It would be nice if they brought back the Invitational and made it rotate between different non-rotating formats, so you'd have both Modern, Legacy and Vintage Invitationals. After all, people are not just rooting for specific players or teams but also different decks, and non-rotating formats is the one place where you know that your favorite deck will be playable year in and year out - barring something stupid getting printed that completely shuts down an entire strategy.
I feel like something like an Invitational would be right place for other formats to show off. Because hopefully Wizards wouldn't feel the need to shake things up beforehand with bans since the event itself is already exciting even if you can predict what the meta is gonna look like to some extent.
>>47024751
>radical and dangerous
Man, Hijra have existed in Indian culture for provably thousands of years. Fa'afafine in Samoa and related gender roles in other Pacific islands are recorded from Cook's interaction with Pacific Islanders.
These third genders or different gender presentations are integrated well into the societies (where Christianity or Islam is changed or not present) and do not provably lead to more suicides and nor are they particularly radical.
If there is a problem with trans people or different gender identification it is with cultural biases as there are several examples of 'trans' gender identification which are integrated comfortably into the given culture.
>>47024869
Which of those are people trying to controversially support and spending hundreds of millions of dollars to do so?
Aside from public nudity?
>>47024889
I'm not here to explain why you are wrong.
If you want to debate this, please head over to /pol/.
That's really the arena to systematically explain why you need to stop imagining that anything that you said has any relevance in modern society.
>>47024910
Well, for Eugenics, there have and are a number of organizations, groups, and individuals who argue for forms of it, and there has been a popular surge in the idea that western civilization/'comfort culture' leads to people who have genetic and cultural defects surviving and having children when they should not.
>>47024910
Well, pub-
>Aside from public nudity?
Bah, cheeky cunt.
Well, eugenics applied once upon a time.
Definitely murder. Just look at all the war hawks in the American Congress. And I suppose arson qualifies just as much as murder.
>>47021560
Maro is a designer. Decisions about format balance, story, marketing, and tournaments are made by other people. You only hear about them from him because he acts as a spokesman.
>>47024948
So what you are saying is that you don't have an argument, and are frightened by anything that doesn't resemble yourself?
>>47024995
What a loaded question.
>>47024995
How old are you?
Do you really think that works anymore?
Go to /pol/ if you want to discuss politics.
I have no investment in any of this, but:
>lower reading level
made me laugh. I don't know about you, but I can't remember a time when the overarching story of a Magic block wasn't day-old tripe. What was your favorite part of the original Mirrodin books; the bit where an entire setting-specific creature type with close ties to the antagonist was completely ignored, the total lack of interesting characters, or the bit where THE POWER WAS IN YOU ALL ALONG?
Unless they've deliberately started misspelling complex words just to mess with kids' heads, I don't think they can do any worse.
You're all retarded.
>Fantasy games need to be more inclusive!
Fine. How about a setting where homosexuality is so accepted, considered so mundane that nobody even talks about it? Where humans are considered the same race no matter what shade they are, because they're not elves or orcs or whatever? Where dysphoria issues don't even exist because changing anything from your hair color to your fucking species is as simple as casting a spell? You could call it... "Magic: the Gathering since Alpha".
You fuckers don't care about inclusion. You want your culture war to be completely inescapable, even - no, ESPECIALLY in the places that were once a refuge for the people you claim to care so much about.
>Magic belongs to the white man! Women and minorities GTFO
Arabian Nights.
And with all that being said...
>MaRo is killing M:TG
You all realize that motherfucker's been running the show for over a decade, right?
>>47024948
>>47025136
Holy shit, /pol/lacks are now telling people to go to /pol/.
>>47025651
The anti-inclusion voices are disproportionately louder than the pro-inclusion message that WotC is sending. Alesha's card says nothing about being trans. The only reason it's a character trait is one short story that talks about it, and in that story the Mardu do basically what you're saying: they don't really care. Similarly, Narset had one story about her autism, which wasn't even explicitly stated until someone asked about it on Doug Beyer's blog, and he responded to the question pretty simply.
>>47025651
>>47025915
Why do tumblrs act like this?
If you're going to act like tumblr, do so in the designated tumblr containment boards.
>>47026065
Aren't you supposed to be opposed to the creation of hugboxes and echo chambers?
I'm seriously thinking about quitting and I've been playing since 1994. These assholes won't even reprint modern staples in supplemental sets of products.
>>47026077
There's a difference between a hugbox and a board that doesn't want to constantly have threads derailed by pointless political controversial debates.
But, you're just tumblr baiting, so you should already be able to appreciate that even if you plan on feigning being an absolute idiot.
>>47026110
The problem with reprinting modern staples in supplemental products like Conspiracy or Commander is that old players then buy up all those products to get the valuable cards before the intended audience can get their hands on the product. Now, Wizards not reprinting enough staples in supplemental products intended for that precise purpose, like Modern Masters, and not printing those products in large enough numbers is an actual problem.
>>47026122
Because your /pol/ baiting is so much better.
>There's a difference between a hugbox and a board that doesn't want to constantly have threads derailed by pointless political controversial debates.
There is, but you're trying to define the difference as some place where everyone who disagrees with you is somewhere else.
Almost like, you know, one of those echo chamber things.
>>47026065
>Everyone who doesn't like me is Tumblr
But that totally isn't the same thing as Tumblr calling everyone who disagrees with them a bigot
>>47026203
They could just increase the size of the print run for supplemental products.
I also doubt that old players would buy up all the valuable cards from a sufficiently large print run for a supplemental product carried by a retailer like Walmart, for instance.
>>47023949
to be fair, three kingdoms was based on real world chinese history so it would be weird if they weren't all asian
>>47026230
I'll play along for one last post.
You can debate all you want on traditional games on the traditional games board, but if your goal is just to needlessly start political debates, there's actually a needless political debates board.
The hope to try and push or pull /tg/ in one direction or another of the political spectrum fails dramatically, with any attempt always generating resentment and opposition, regardless of what side of the spectrum it's pushing towards. With that said, if you want to discuss your controversial topics and you plan on doing it here, you are really just looking for an argument and if that's what you're looking for you can just run off to /pol/.
>>47026110
No offense, but if you've been playing since 1994 you've had over 20 years to learn that you have to get in on shit at the ground level before shit gets expensive.
I feel no sympathy for you.
I understand that you can feel for the shitty for the people who can't gets cards while you have the cards; but if that's the case, why suddenly now after years of ridiculous mistreatment by Wizards do you give a fuck? It's not Wizards fault that you sat back and gave zero shits about the future of your personal enjoyment while other players struggled to join the game all these years - Wizards invested in them by making this game accessible; I'm accusing you of doing nothing because if you had truly had a brain enough to care you would have fucking quit long before now. This is my problem with you veteran players you bitch and moan just like old people about the current state of your world that you did nothing to improve while you had the power to do so - and when you had the power and influence you just shoveled more money into something that was terrible and it has come to the point where you realize that oops, it's too late to save it.
Or you don't have the cards and suddenly now want them. Once again, you had the opportunity to get them at the ground level and didn't.
Your age and experience mean fuck-all so stop throwing it around like it means something - it only means something to the impressionable and idiots and the people who want to use your "wisdom" to sell more garbage.
>>47024889
lmao the um bongos of darkest timbuctoo, i am so convinced
>>47024948
>oh no, a decent argument against me which I have no response to
>I know, I'll send them somewhere they'll be piled on and shouted down with promise that I'll be right there
>Cause I'm the biggest faggot ever!!!
>>47026545
No no, let him go, Anon. Remember, he already made his last post. He won't be here to see any of it.
>>47026545
For the last time, take it to /pol/.
Your pathetic baiting is worthless here, and would be annihilated there.
>>47021623
Dat filename
>>47026567
Sorry, but that level of bullshit "No, I'm right and don't need to prove it" intellectual dishonesty pisses me off.
You're right though I'll leave it
>>47026340
>They could just increase the size of the print run for supplemental products.
The problem with this plan is that the demand for most supplemental products isn't big enough to support much larger print runs than they are currently doing. Until recently there was no problem finding boxes of Unhinged that no one wanted, for example.
>>47026704
>unhinged
Yeah not supporting your argument.
>>47026420
Consider yourself fucking triggered.
In fairness to myself, I'll reply with the following points:
1) I have all the cards I want, especially the older ones.
2) Magic wasn't always like this. The reprint policy wasn't so bad, chase rares and tournament staples weren't always so expensive or in such short supply.
3) I don't quite understand how I'm deficient in the service of my hobby. Should I have bought more Future Sight for Tarmogofy? More Innistrad for Liliana of the Veil? How does a $7 uncommon like Path to Exile make the game more accessible to new players?
>>47023097
Manchildren kind of count
>>47026902
Kill me now.
>>47026059
>inclusion
You're deliberately missing the point.
I don't feel any more "included" for Magic having an autistic character in it. In fact, it does the opposite: it reminds me that Magic is a consumer product, made by normal-minded businessmen in an effort to make money by preying on the symptoms of my neurological disorder.
And they think I'd be more likely to give them my money if they make one of the painfully uninteresting characters in their shitty lore "like me."
You know, so I feel "included."
>>47026903
That's why I qualified it with "actual"
>>47027020
>anything progressive must be a cash grab
lol, get a load of this autist
>>47027020
Excellent point, also SJW's don't spend money on the game, since Anita every SJW is trying to see how far they can have and eat their cake in what ever form of nerd culture convention, larps, table top, and mtg. When will the sjw menace end?
>>47027053
It is a cash grab. I'm autistic as well and I see it for what it is: Virtue signalling. They're trying to make themselves look good because they know we're too small a group to make a fuss over it. These tokens are often nothing more than a walking tumblr post that says "I'm {minority}! Love me or you're {class of bigot}!"
It is always done in a tasteless, hamfisted, stereotypical way that accomplishes nothing. I don't want a fucking spazzy in my games, I want a fun and enjoyable game. I don't give a fuck about the lore. Nobody plays MTG for the plot. I don't feel included either, I feel that a giant fucking spotlight was shone on me, making me the center of attention for someone else's amusement.
It's even worse when they retcon this shit into people. Do you think I'm going to love them more because they're like me? No, I'm going to hate them because they're no longer a character, they're a statement.
>>47025651
>>Fantasy games need to be more inclusive!
Stat the following things to accomplish this.
1: Common mental disorders, including ADHD and autism.
2: Various mental illnesses, including depression, alcoholism, PTSD, and trauma.
3: Other major psychological problems like schizophrenia, psychopathy, multiple personality disorder, bulimia, anorexia, and so on.
Oh wait, that requires -research-, -consultation-, and -effort-.
>>47021560
>Lower reading leave
kek
Kind of OT, but I have a question
Why did SCG move away from featuring Legacy on their opens? I always enjoyed watching it.
>>47024436
And, to dig deep, a little set called Arabian Nights...
>>47027235
Modern is more profitable.
>>47027053
>anything involving Wizards of the fucking Coast
>not a cash grab
Better autistic than dangerously naive
>>47027109
>>47027148
These
>>47027196
Not this! If you want to tackle real social issues in fantasy, you do it the way Tolkien did it: by allegory.
Let me put it this way, if I'm playing a game and my character is getting held up while he awkwardly struggles to socialize with other people, it's not much of a fucking fantasy.
>>47027360
Grats, you see my point; we don't need real life shit in fantasy.
>>47027020
>>47027148
I have a bunch of problems with Tumblr's views on representation as well. They can't seem to understand the difference between macro and micro, and most of them appear to have never even heard of tokenism. Just because certain groups are underrepresented in Western media doesn't mean lazily forcing them into whatever you possibly can is really helping anyone. I'm polyamorous and I can count on one hand the number of nontraditional relationship structures I've seen in fiction that I didn't find totally embarrassing.
>>47027349
I see. I suppose Modern is an OK watch since the format gets shaken up a little more often. I need my Legacy fix but I'm not up for watching another Open where half the players on cam play Miracles and spin tops for 30 minutes.
>>47026902
>on a member of Gatewatch
>on a one certain member
>every block
>>47026902
What the fuck, why would they make the sets where we're introduced to the Gatewatch so shitty if this is going to be the new main theme of the game for several years to come?
>>47027053
Literally everything that's done for the sake of "progressivism" and tries to make money is a cash grab.
>>47027705
Ignoring that they outright said that it was going to be what the storyline was going to be about in the years to come when the set was released, is it really that surprising considering how Wizards have tried for years to get a MtG movie made but have always been turned down because they have no recognizable characters or storylines to work off of?
>>47027776
But WHY would they make it such an awful set with an extremely low power level, excluding the Modern Eldrazi interactions of course. The only thing notable about it was the Expedition lands but those were extremely rare and unnecessarily expensive. You'd think that they would try to make it the most memorable and fun set in a while, not leave us with this bitter taste in our mouths.
>>47027776
But market research shows Jace is super popular! If you don't like him, you're just a vocal minority!
>Banning the word Man lands
How is getting rid of trap options a bad thing?
>>47028068
Mutavault and that flyer with Infect would like to have a word with you.
>>47027961
It was mostly teething problems from making it the first two-block set. They should have experimented with that on a less story-important set.
