So tg I was at the flg and noticed every table was 30k or 9th age. I ask the players why play 30k and the answeres were either " My chaos is to far behind and won't be updated" or "Did you see the wulfen/angels of death!? I'm out". Meanwhile 9th age players said what you'd expect about aos being a train wreck. Next day went to another flgs to see my friend working there and same story. Have you noticed this?
>>47007859
Same for me, but people are dropping GW completley in favour of Infinity.
40k still gets occasional play, but most havent made a new purchase since Calth.This is all a good thing
>>47007974
I'm just alittle nervous that the beast arises, wulfen and physics were attempts by gw to scare us towards aos which they've been making look more 40kish. 40k is the money maker so why starve it to fix a failure?
>>47007859
Basically yes and it's hurt them.
Now they are desperately trying to undo the damage done by their utter shittiness by engaging with the community somewhat.
Too little too late I think. No way am I putting any more time, effort or money to engage in their fucktarded games.
Also they're knocking out some REALLY shit models and art these days. Premium my arse.
>>47008061
Not to mention the god awful rules.
Of the 3 stores in my area I tend to go to only 1 sells GW products, and even then the guy who runs it informed me that they make less than 10% of their yearly income from GW stuff.
I really have good memories of 40k and fantasy so I'm alittle sad that it hasn't gotten any better since I've left but hey whatever I guess
>>47007859
As soon as age of sigmar hit (and we did try it) our GW meta shriveled up and died. We used to have a 40k tourney twice a month, at least sixteen people each tourney. You'd catch people playing pick up games troughout the week, prepping for BOLScon or Rouge Trader or what have you.
Now it's warmahordes, x-wing, or infinity. There's a buch of 40k and AoS product that isn't moving anytime soon. We still get white dwarfs that nobody buys.
All that's left are a father and son who play 40k once a week, usually Eldar v Tau.
I played 40k since 3rd ed, I had a blast. Somewhere along the way though, it started being more chore than game. It stopped being fun. I'm not sure when or how.
>>47008440
AoS had zero impact on 40k so it just means your area is full of retards.
>>47009504
They stopped play GW games so I think they came out ahead in the end actually.
>>47009664
They were retarded for playing GW games in the first place.
>>47009504
>AoS had zero impact on 40k
AoS had an impact on the way customers perceive GW, it's undeniable that it did scare off further actual, dormant or potential players.
>>47009703
That's like saying people are going to stop buying Toyotas because they shut down Scion. Yes, people will have those MISPERCEPTIONS, but that just makes them a retard.
Go in to your local geedubs on a weekend and they're still as packed as ever. I don't think they've ever given a shit what happens at your local Magic+X-Wing haunt.
>>47009830
It made people fear age of emperor
>>47009830
I don't think that comparison works
>>47010541
Company shuts down its unprofitable line. Why would customers of the profitable line care? It doesn't affect the profitable line unless it becomes unprofitable. GW, Toyota, or any fucking company is willing to get rid of things that lose money? No kidding, welcome to every single company that hasn't run itself into the ground.
>>47010122
You know I've seen a lot of GW supporters on /tg/. Then I remembered the case of Chapter Master, fan made game that was shutdown by GW after blackshirt visiting this board reported it to his seniors. Is it possible that most active GW supporters here are its employees?It's more likely than you think
>>47010606
>Company shuts down its unprofitable line
WFB was not unprofitable. It was less-profitable, but product diversity is it's own reward. It can't be unprofitable: Know why? Other companies have taken it's market share. If other companies can be profitable in your niche, you were shit at operating in your niche and deserve to fail.
And public relations matter. Image matters. Network effect matters. Having an evocative IP matters. So many things matter that GW, and apparently you, don't seem to recognise. Which is why they're failing and will continue to unless they seriously change their ideas. Sticking points on their turd won't rescue Sigmar at this stage and 40k -will- lose players so long as GW still appears callous, anti-consumer, and overpriced.
>>47010878
I still don't get the mindset behind owning a 40k army, using a 40k army weekly, and then suddenly ceasing to use or expand said army because the company that made your army reveals itself to be an asshole in fields you did NOT own or partake in.
It'd be like if you went to McDonalds every morning for a bacon burger, then stop because they replace their breakfast line. Only worse, because in that case you're actually paying for the burger every time. "Ronald's an asshole!" makes SOME sense as a gripe, but doesn't explain a complete bailout unless playing was some kind of weird tribute to your dark lord in the first place.
>>47007859
In my LGS no Warhammer player switched over to AoS, and aside from some initial test plays when it came out i haven't seen anyone play it.
40K is still played as usual, though it has never been the most populous.
I can only hope that AoS and price jewery is fucking GW in the ass.
>>47007859
If GW senior management owned guns, they wouldn't have any toes left at this point they've shot themselves in the feet so many times.
While there's still a core of GW players (mostly 40K) in my area - that core has declined greatly since 5th edition on. It's amazing that a company like GW seems to be mentally incapable of realizing that good game rules help drive minis sales - not 'army of the month' rigged game rules. Contempt for their customer base, and increased competition in terms of minis quality (and companies with far better rules sets) have all eroded GW's long term profitability. Their overall sales figures continue to decline in spite of an increased release rate in terms of minis and rules sets / codex releases, and increased prices per model / kit.
>>47010606
Your analogy would only be correct if, for example Toyota took its 2nd most successful product line and ran it into the ground all while blaming the consumer. And then discontinued it. Which is exactly what GW did with WFB.
>>47011110
If the company in question guts its 2nd most profitable line due to a long and repeated process of mismanagement, and then attempts to sell former and new customers on the 'new version' of said product which is actually inferior to the older version, what part of that would NOT make customers of the main line have second thoughts about continuing to be a customer? It isn't like GW fucked up WFB only. The best description of 40K at this point is 'less fucked up than WFB was, and far less fucked up than AoS is'. Neither of which is a strong reassurance to current 40K players that their support won't get them fucked in the ass next. GW management has for far to long counted on being the 'only game in town'. That ship has sailed, and now when faced with real competition, GW has started to fail.
I do like 40K and have been collecting / playing since the R.T. days. But with the complete snooze fest that was 5th, and the continued train-wrecks known as 6th and 7th edition, I have long since stopped buying their products. I'll continue gaming and hope that they can turn things around, but they aren't getting my $$$ if they can't deliver value for money.
>>47008096
That's pretty normal, if not a little high, for one product line to make up 10% of sales.
This has been a long-running problem at GW for years. I'll never forget the time an early Fantasy writer nearly had a stroke after seeing what Americans at my local store played in his game. Did you know that at least one magic item in Fantasy had been originally introduced "as a joke" to "build up the setting" and basically forge the narrative? He genuinely did not grasp that not everyone was in on this joke until he toured the semi-competitive scene.
The difference is that back then there were voices of reason and the company honestly cared about what players though. All voices of reason were surgically removed over the course of years and market research ended.
Does anyone have the Jervis article where he has a shitfit over the fact that most players didn't have fun in the exact same manner he did?
>>47007859
>Did GW scare off everyone?
They've certainly made no visible effort to avoid it, and their self-admitted wealth generation plan is, "We don't like customers - especially return customers - so just buy $300-500 of our Premium Product(tm) and begone. And stay gone, you fucking parasites."
Good thing they're too big to fail ...
>>47011539
>Does anyone have the Jervis article where he
This one? http://bewareofthephil.tumblr.com/post/124141948385/interesting-old-article-from-the-citadel-journal
>>47007859
There are still 40k players in my area, but most of them are selling their minis. Most people are buying fantasy miniatures, but gw is not brigning old fantasy minis, only AoS and no one is buying from the stores.
Fantasy players have options to play with their minis (9th, kow and mordheim), meanwhile 40k players are stuck in one game that is dying because GW is bringing mostly AoS shit here. Also warmahorde and infinite are becoming more popular. Only good news.
>>47011360
Considering one if the other stores in the area basically makes ALL their money from 40K that actually surprises me. Seems most shops I know which deal in miniatures make the majority of their income off 40K.
Learn something new every day.
It's been a while since I was playing wargaming stuff. I wanted to jump back into it along with a couple of friends. I know this is probably going to be a loaded question and one that's completely subjective but...A couple of them want to get into GW stuff just because the brand is recognized and they know the lore more than other games. Are we going to end up with a dead game if we do? Should I try to convince them to get into another game? I used to play 40k and WHFB and I like them, I wouldn't mind it still or another game I'm just worried about having no one else outside the group to play with.
>>47012904
40k, Warmahordes, and X-Wing are the most played games. 40k is the safest choice and is palyed the most widely worldwide, but it's also the most contentious brand/company. Some areas don't have any 40k players so you should check your area's shops.
If you've got a group of 3 or more people, I think that's enough to have many years of enjoyment regardless of the system you play, especially one as large and open as 40k. Playing between friends also solves most of 40k's problems, which almost always involve "these toys are too expensive" and "that player is being a faggot".
My FLGS is X-wing, KoW and Frostgrave. There's a bit of 40k, a bit of infinity, and the occasional Sigmar game. The guy that owns the place hates doing buisiness with GW (doesn't mind the minis or sigmar, i've seen him play personally), but keeps ordering in the new boardgames they are putting out because people keep buying them, no matter how much they charge.
>>47007859
>overcharge for bad products
>actively work to discontinue the product lines people like
>intentionally destroy your rulesets just so you can sell people replacement rulebooks, and then replacements for the replacements
Gosh I wonder why GW is failing.
I'm just glad to see everyone finally starting to wake up and move on to greener pastures.
>>47013725
"Liking" something isn't enough to keep it in business. You gotta purchase it too. If "likes" were enough all the morons on social media and camwhore sites would be billionaires.
>>47014358
If you're not producing a product people want to buy, it's not their fault for not buying.
The only thing fitting is a simpsons/FG/South Park Mockery. How has GDub avoid being mocked? Chaos sorcery from offering the world during end times?
>>47014410
Then why complain about it being discontinued?
>>47014491
Because it could have been fixed. Are you retarded?
>>47014521
Coulda woulda shoulda. Not as retarded as you for whining on /tg/ about pointless shit.
>>47014521
>Because it could have been fixed
But they did fix it.
>>47014537
He says, while shitposting in /tg/ in a thread about said pointless shit.
It's hard for me to say, since in my area there is actually very little GW presence. Most people here play Malifauxthanks to my fatherif any tabletop game that's not MtG.
However, I do know that one of the few stores in my area to sell GW minis decided to stop because he didn't like how they were treating him and didn't like where they were going.
I've got a ton of unpainted 40k stuff sitting around and the pathetic state of 6th/7th edition has killed all my desire to even bother painting what I have, let alone buy the awful new stuff. So now I'm buying and painting other model kits instead, including non-war gaming stuff.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this malaise either.
>>47014915
Definitely not.
Most of the really good painters I know have branched out. Some of them are even doing X-wing stuff on commission and making a bit of dosh.
>>47007859
People are playing Horus Heresy, so I don't see how GW is scaring them off since they're seemingly willing to still give it money, perhaps even more than they would be if they were playing 40k. Unless they're all using recasts.
>>47008048
How in the fuck is The Beast Arises supposed to be an attempt to scare you towards AoS? It's an event that place 8-9000 years before the current time.
>>47010878
>Other companies have taken it's market share.
Please share with me this companies that have taken the bountiful market share that Fantasy once owned.
There is one company, Mantic, and even they haven't managed to take the market share entirely because you still have people playing varieties of Fantasy.
>>47014481
>How has GDub avoid being mocked?
Because they're fucking inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
>>47015723
Op here they were almost all recasts and beast arises was non cannon i thought?
>>47015755
Considering the effort GW has put into it, it's pretty likely canon for now.
>>47014915
Not at all, I have no motivation to paint GW crap these days. I loved the models, I loved the setting, but they have ruined the quality of both recently.
>>47007859
It's definitely on a downhill trend in every area except 30k, and it's unclear if that is really making a dent in losses since people who already had a Marine army don't have to buy all that much new stuff as long as they're ok with their legions of dudesmen having time-period inaccurate armor.
>>47017375
>as long as they're ok with their legions of dudesmen having time-period inaccurate armor.
To me doing this rids the Horus Heresy of one of its charms, in that it's kind of like historical 40k.
Now certain vehicles I can understand since people have shown evidence where even though they may not have been as common, stuff like the plastic Rhino was present during the Horus Heresy.
I could easily understand as well if it's a case of someone rather first using their funds to buy HH specific units from FW first, but to just say fuck it and decide you're going to proxy everything and not even bother just sort of ruins it as I said.
90% of people in my area are playing age of sigmar, op's just shitposting and trying to rile everyone up
>>47015723
>People are playing Horus Heresy, so I don't see how GW is scaring them off
Well those people were probably 40k players who are now playing a FORGEWORLD game that people praise for not being broken the way 40k is...
>>47017456
What the hell is your area, GW HQ?
Let this shit thread die
>>47007859
> Did GW scare off everyone?
Nope, actually people returning to GW, especially WHFB players since GW announced new point system, even 9th Age own site is dead now.
>>47017457
Like I said though, unless they're using and buying recasts, GW is still getting their money. At best they're just pissing on the GW Design Studio.
It kind of reminds me of the person who said of some event GW held that because the Design Studio people were being so tight lipped and such compared to FW that they should of told them that if they were more like FW they'd be giving them money instead of FW. It's inane because GW is getting your money either way.
>>47017472
M8 people who aren't whiny cunts will get over whfb dying 8th ed was fucked and had to die
To answer your question straya and england
>>47007859
>Have you noticed this?
It hasn't quite gotten to that point here - there isn't a big 30k scene and 40k is still being played - but GW's games are much less widely played now. Warmachine is taking off in a big way and there's a small X-wing group springing up in its place. A few people persist with 8th now and then, but AoS was dead on arrival.
>>47011539
>Does anyone have the Jervis article where he has a shitfit over the fact that most players didn't have fun in the exact same manner he did?
every single standard bearer from old white dwarfs was "stop playing competitive matches!!!"
My FLGS hardly carries any GW stuff, they mostly push dropship commander, flames of war, mars attacks, and a few other war-games
I've heard that GW makes it real hard for non-GW stores to get their stuff.
>>47017502
There are people in Australia who are willing to touch AoS? My experience in south-east Queensland is that people kinda just laughed at it, shook their heads, and went back to KoW and Warmahordes.
>>47007859
I own a gaming club, and here Malifaux surpassed both 40k and Fantasy.
40k players are still a lot, but with each update i see one of them drop out.
CSM were the most popular faction here, so there is that. Most of them just sold everything and that's it. Only 3 remains.
I've seen quite a few drop recently.
Most over 35 years old dropped because of the continuous hype, which they couldn't keep up with, one dropped after seeing the 30th anniversary marine and the renegade knight box, fearing the direction 40k was going, and finally I expect 2 to drop because of the new fliers rules.
This is a very non-competitive environment (Orks won the last tournament), and the heavy hand of GW is really hurting the business.
>>47007859
>wulfen
DIGGANOBZ!
>>47017375
World on that street is that 30k has basically hit its saturation point and slowing in sales which is why FW is getting other stuff to do now.
>>47017723
Given how much marine crap FW have pumped our recently, and how much of it is the same god damned thing resulpted 18 times over I have NO difficulty believing they over saturated their own market.
My FLGS don't even carry GW any more, other lines are more profitable and above all, not a complete pain to get ahold of.
Seems GW don't like other stores competing with their own.
>>47017723
If Horus Heresy had hit it's saturation point then they wouldn't have hired new people for the Specialist Games Studio.
>>47017739
It may look the same to you, but that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone.
With the Marine Legions in HH it's really about appreciating the lore behind them.
>>47017748
My preferred online retailer carries massive stocks of everything, they have over 20 khador basic jacks in stock right now, 30 of the second type of basic jack, 20 of the most recent character jack, etc. Tons of the things. When an X wing wave is released they post all over facebook about how they have literal pallets of stock arriving. I haven't seen them promote any GW stuff in like 2 years. They do seem to get new stock in, but instead of ordering 30 of everything they seem to get just the standard 2 of every item you get by default as a GW stockist. They didn't even bother promoting Calth or Deathwatch.
>>47017784
The intriguing lore of teenage angst and daddy issues.
>>47009830
>MISPERCEPTIONS
If you haven't seen how the symptoms are carrying over to 40k the one with misperceptions here is you.
AoS is not the problem, but the symptoms of the people behind it who are the same behind 40k.
Of course people are scared and demotivated when any long term planning of a hobby that takes time and patience has to take into account the visible trend.
>>47017502
>straya and england
So what is your area again?
>>47017879
Hey, don't piss that guy off. He's a giant who spans two hemispheres.
>>47017885
If he's a giant why doesn't he play with life-sized figurines?
>>47008048
>the beast arises, wulfen and physics were attempts by gw to scare us
This confirms that this thread is populated by retards. Just what.
>>47017894
He doesn't have anyone his size to play against. It's a lonely life.
I've actually been seeing a lot of improvements with GW stuff lately.
Their new games, while being outrageously expensive, are at least fun, and come with models you can use in 40k
Also the new codex suppliment gives rules for all the chapters, something marines needed for a long time now.
From what i've been told by the representitive to my store (I do the games section at the local hobby shop) they are going to be releasing cheaper model kits for newer, younger players, since $200+ dollers for half a functional army is a bit outlandish, so cheap in fact they're gonna try to get them into megamarts, so don't expect quality.
Also admec stuff.
All in all its mainly the prices that is screwing GW products, and the fanbase, most of the play groups around here are either niche groups of friends, or anal rules lawyers who drive away any potential new people hard, despite having the more organized public groups.
>>47017942
>the fanbase is what's scaring the fanbase
>>47011110
Just play another ruleset with it. That's what I do with my GW stuff. That and use older GW rulesets.
>>47011360
Back in the day, GW was THE money maker. You stocked Warhammer and 40k to the rafters and watched money come in. Now, not so much.
I've been into warhammer since 1993 or so. It started as hobbyists making a little extra money on the side. It has turn into a for profit Corp that wants only to increase sales every quarter the bigger the profit the better. In a niche hobby don't think this business model benefits the consumers. The economy of scale is lost because it's a niche market and GW pretends they are selling luxury goods.
>>47018632
Yep I just buy used shit or Chinaman on eBay strip it and repaint it. Play Necromunda and Mordheim.
>>47015723
>Please share with me this companies that have taken the bountiful market share that Fantasy once owned.
Every company that experienced sales spikes after fantasy died? Dozens of games got it.
>>47011110
There is such a thing as company direction. AOS is a signal the direction is going to be worse, more overpriced models and increasingly less attention paid to rules, which has already been an issue to a degree in 40k. What AoS is getting 40k is going to get in a few years.
>>47017865
Yeah they've seriously fucked up with the lore imo. It's got it cool parts the military organisations and battles but the fall from grace stories were portrayed in such a puerile way.
Way too many books by way too many authors too. Milked dry.
Lots of people here leaving 40k in favor of 30k/Malifaux/Infinity/FoW and other systems. There are few people who play AoS, but FB is much more popular.
GW is quickily losing it's popularity because their games now are "meh models, shitty rules, high price".
But 40k is still the major game around here and I'm not sure if it will change in future. Fanbase has a lot of inertia.
"The big recent change is that GW has actually stated – both during the Chapter House court hearing and subsequently to its shareholders – that it considers its market to be collectors of models and not gamers."
>>47017597
Excuse me, grandmaster? I don't believe they are ork cosplayers.
>>47017597
Huh? They look more like were-hairsquigs than diggaz.
>>47019133
http://youtu.be/Y29aGTbg62A
>>47019189
It's a shittily forced joke desu.
>>47007859
I haven't been interested in playing or buying a GW game since 2010 because their prices, rules and fluff became retarded.
Their art also became progressively worse when they moved away from black and white.
>>47021033
Its coloured art could be cool
>>47021127
I found that a lot of the time they just used a very limited colour palette in their army books after 2010 that made the illustrations look cheap and washed out.
>>47017564
GW are cunts. That's not news.
>>47021033
>Their art also became progressively worse when they moved away from black and white.
Now what would give you that impression?
>>47017564
It's basically that if you want one product from games workshop, you have to get all the "popular lines." (See: everything)
Which is a real pain in the ass when said "popular lines" don't sell off the shelf quickly.
Did Activision scare off everyone? Everyone I talk to complains about how Call of Duty is basically the same game every single year, and about how the single player campaigns suck and the multiplayer rewards camping and other shitty behavior. I literally don't know a single person who plays CoD regularly, let alone buys each new game as it comes out. They MUST be close to bankruptcy, if they're pumping this much money into games that clearly no one is playing. It's not just my circle of friends either. Look on /v/, or practically any of Reddit's gaming communities- no one is talking about CoD except to complain about it. God, I don't understand how ANYONE could think Activision is going to be around a year from now. Just look around you. It's obvious Paradox Interactive is going to be the biggest studio in the world. You'd have to be an idiot not to see it.
>>47023107
What the fuck is that. Is like He-man with extra skulls and even cringiest names.
>>47023331
CoD caters to a great pool of "silent" younglings, GW can't do that due to the higher costs and attention required from the customer.
>>47023107
Wow, fucking wow.
>>47023718
>Is like He-man with extra skulls and even cringiest names.
Welcome to the AoS and before you ask, that's official art...
>>47023107
What... What is that? That isn't actual licensed art, is it? It looks like a deviantart fanfic world map.
>>47023107
>>47021033
Nah, the new art got a infusion ofANIIIIIIME
>>47023791
>>47023807
>>47023823
>>47023844
>>47023860
My FLGS is mostly X-Wing, KoW, Frostgrave and SAGA
>>47023724
Sure anon, keep telling yourself that. Keep pretending you're the majority. Keep saying GW is on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe one of these decades it'll all actually come true!
>>47023880
Long has the Heldenhammer stood against us....
NO MORE!
He will learn. They will all learn.
>>47015723
>Please share with me this companies that have taken the bountiful market share that Fantasy once owned.
Scibor
Mantic
Momminiaturas
Avatar of War
>>47023915
CHAOS CANNOT BE DENIED!
>>47007859
I wouldn't mind getting back into 40k but everything about the company just tells me to stay away. I'm not angry or anything, I'm not spitting my dummy out because of a couple changes they've made, I just don't want to spend money on a hobby that's being so erratic.
>>47010869
>Is it possible that most active GW supporters here are its employees?
Not most. Probably some, maybe a significant number. In general, 4chan loves to adopt the contrarian position. Sometimes this is good because popular rarely means better, but it's clearly not the case with GW. You can like age of sigmar, that's a valid position, but the company did a lot of mistakes.
But even in this case where it's very hard to support the unpopular company, some people here will try to defend GW if they see a contrarian position to jump into. You only need a single blackshirt in /tg/ to start the fire and keep it burning from time to time.It could be me.
>>47023987
That's fair enough, same reason I'm hesitant about getting back into the game.
>>47013725
I am sad that the setting I like is owned by people who clearly hate it
>>47007859
I dropped 40K as a hobby about 5 years ago because the rules were consistently garbage and were never going to improve, the model designs got far too ridiculous, and the prices just kept increasing.
And then AOS happened. I never played Fantasy myself but holy jesus what a fustercluck.
Wait... is that art dump official?
Everything's real. Gods anastronaut, Oz IS over the rainbow, and Games-Workshop's where the monsters live.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_VTfrF6TWU
>>47017375
I dislike the idea of 30k as the big replacment, it leaves nothing but imperium factions
>>47024006
I know for a fact the guy who runs the local GW near me posts in /wip/, we talked about it in the store yesterday and I recognize his models when he posts them.
>>47024069
Report him to GW HQ.
>>47017481
Some people might be giving Rountree a chance to unfuck the company, a process that will take a long ass time
>>47024085
Why on earth would I do that? He is a cool guy.
>>47017502
Getting over it does not mean you become brain damaged and are happy to play shitty, unfinished games with comically overpriced models.
>>47012509
>"Point Values - Who needs 'em?"
>AoS
>>47017942
My town has basically no war gaming communities, and I feel there is a basis, what is the best way to rally the local player base into something coherent enough to great market demand, I'm tired of the shops selling nothing but magic
>>47007859
My group was heavily into 40K and Fantasy. People never play 40K now and when it's mentioned people either reminisce or get very angry at the current state.
AoS is played by two of the group and everyone rages about it.
Most people play necromunda, saga, bloodbowl and infinity now. Also flames and bolt action are common.
But no contemporary GW stuff.
>>47024155
Browsing a website known for circulating CP and propagating online harassment. I don't think the parents who drop their kids at his store would approve.
>>47024085
>>47024220
Calling the police right now.
>>47024233
Good man.
>>47024050
>And then AOS happened. I never played Fantasy myself but holy jesus what a fustercluck.
Well, you can't say they didn't give the community exactly what they were asking for: A WHFB update with a lower barrier of entry. Hell, before AoS plenty of people were specifically suggesting it be turned into a skirmish game.
>>47008061
Yeah with 40k being as bad as it was already - and the majority of codexes and supplements released in the past 18 months somehow managing to make the game worse - I dont see how anyone can tolerate playing it.
>>47024262
People liked the setting, none of the conflict in AoS feels like it has any meaning by comparason, I just wish rules could escalate from skirmish to ranked wars and then transition into apoc tier clashes without issue
>>47012509
No wonder AoS is such a disaster, this guy is the only one left and he does not understand how vitally important a game being playable with a stranger is.
Points and balance do not harm narrative gaming in the least but they cripple the game if they are missing. Especially for new players.
>>47023902
>I've got no comeback and I'm going to assume everything is ok just because yesterday was okay
doomsayers are always right, they only miss the day.
>>47024262
If you think this is even close to what most people wanted you are as daft as GW.
WHFB already HAD a skirmish system, GW just took it out of the rulebook in their mad quest for profit. Which AoS is merely the ultimate realisation of.
>>47017472
Nobody plays it at GW HQ anon. It's my local store, and during open gaming I've never seen more than 2 games on all day. The Fantasy players far outnumber the AoS ones.
I was once there on the same day as a AoS tournament. About 80% of the entrants were GW staff,and they were all using Archaon. It's fucking dead at HQ.
>>47009504
>AoS had zero impact
AoS has had a huge impact on Games Workshop as a whole. Most model/game companies would not have survived it.
>>47009830
Found the retard.
>>47024401
Its amazing what inertia can do.
Problem for GW is that stagnating in sales and consistently pissing off more and more of your fans while the industry as a whole grows and gets more diverse is not sustainable.
>>47024377
So GW doesn't belive in its own product, why can't the new CEO just go and say it was a mistake? Is there legal president against admitting your company and predacesors made mistakes?
At my weekly club people used to pretty much exclusively play Warhammer and 40k. This was up until probably about a year and a half ago.
Now you'd struggle to get a game of it. People play Warmahordes, Malifaux, Infinity and ESPECIALLY Dropzone Commander. I think the main reason in the shift was the steeply rising prices coupled with the rising needed points in your army. There were a few bad codexes, people became disillusioned and bam, that was it.
>>47024453
So does that make Mantic the Tau? Or is GW the Eldar and Mantic a young mandkind?
>>47024482
How can people just abandon a setting like that after all the time and investment?
>>47010606
WHFB was profitable though. It was in the icv2 top 5 when they canned it. AoS hasnt even registered. AoS sales are lower than WHFB pre End Times sales. Please stop being a retard.
>>47023902
Not that anon, but I don't think GW will go bankrupt. They'll just wither, getting smaller and smaller in sales.
Maybe eventually they'll go bust, but not for a long while.
>>47024500
the setting is not abandoned, the game and any possible support to the company is
>>47024528
>insert proof chicken
>>47024500
They realize the "investment fallacy" is just that, a fallacy? Why drink a beer if the fizz is gone?
>>47024484
GW is the Corperation and Mantic is the Marauders.
>>47024560
I don't follow, the company owns the setting, how can you just throw away modles for a whole new set, in a setting you are liable to not care about
>>47024642
The who and who? I don't care about mantic's IP I just want to use their rules to play the settings I like with the modles I already own
>>47024577
Anon, GW is British company. The allegory with warm stale beer doesn't really work here.
>>47024684
They just drink stale beer? Well this explains alot about GW's expectations
>>47024541
You have to wonder how they are interpreting the downward spike in sales?
Its fascinating watching them continue to bet on the same strategies that have undoubtedly played a large role in the sales shrink. There is some really bad leadership in there.
>>47024303
>People liked the setting, none of the conflict in AoS feels like it has any meaning by comparason
I don't think they were wrong in believing that wading through 30+ years of lore is going to be very intimidating for new players, and obviously the central conflict . The problem with WHFB is that it was simply unsalvagable. The more they tried to court new players the more they were going to alienate old ones. AoS was a Hail Mary that didn't work out. The game was clearly unprofitable in its previous form, and any middle ground between the two would have been too little too late.
>>47024351
Holy shit, really? I'd have assumed you were making fun of the guy I was replying to if it wasn't for your greentext. Please, take a step back and look at what you just wrote.
>>47024541
Oh, I totally agree. It's the cycle most successful media companies go through: You get big by doing a good job, but you reach a certain size and organizational inertia sets in. You develop more and more bad habits and start leaning on your existing popularity more and more until you start entirely taking it for granted. Eventually a smaller, leaner company comes along that can genuinely challenge you and you either successfully adapt or slowly slide into irrelevance. The problem is none of GW's "competition" is even close to being large enough to scare them at this point (no matter what the delusional whiners on teej claim), and I don't see that changing until 3d printing becomes cheap and widespread. Which to be fair isn't all that far off, but it's not going to happen any day now, either.
>>47023107
Wait. That is OFFICIAL art? When I saw that first, I thought it was some fan trying to make sense of some descriptions.
>>47024919
>is none of GW's "competition" is even close to being large enough to scare them.
That's right, any single competitor isn't big enough, but there are lots of grown up dwarfs now. Privateer press, Corvus Belli, Mantic, Wyrd Games, Fantasy Flight all do things better in one point or another than GW and were no ones five or ten years ago, and are only growing mostly from ex-gw costumers. wh40k and Whfb had the great advantage than was played everywhere and had very enthusiastic geeks than would try to hook up with that cool game. Lots of this is lost now, fan boys exist but haters are as common now, X-wing is now the most popular game thanks to the IP and easy to learn but hard to master game, FF also does fluff better than GW today. PP does tournies in NA and has a balanced game with a very distinct setting, Mantic does cheap bulk minis and has a cool and balanced game with a nearly no existent fluff, Malifaux does plastic minis of quality and has a skirmish game than is pretty good, and Corvus belly infinity is a superb game with very cool minis, the fluff isn't they great strength but isn't bad. Gw will not die, but I can see any of those taking over lots of ex-GW games fans with ease, and with time GW being a second fiddler in the market.
>>47024919
WHFB never stopped making a profit, why do you people keep spreading this bullshit.
And nothing about WHFB was 'unsalvageable', GW caused its sales decline by trying to wring more profit out of it. Turns out making the game more expensive and less fun reduces sales. 8th edition actively drove away new players because GW raised the entry cost.
>>47025155
So you're saying fluff doesn't matter?
>>47023915
>>47023939
You got your shit pushed in by a random orc. You're such a fag pussy that the writers tantrumed and retconned it.
You're a bigger laughingstock than Failbaddon.
>>47025337
It matter, but like the quality/price of the minis or the game.
>>47024919
>Please, take a step back and look at what you just wrote.
>>47023331
>anon compares a company built on a hobby with unassembled, unpainted, expensive and numerous miniatures played with other people with a face to face interaction to a company selling periodically reworked videogames with a focus for fast paced gameplay against random people online assuming that the online presence and type of customer is the same
>>47023724
>gets told that is not the case
>>47023902
>[sarcasm] [insert projection here] [insert implication here] [insert exaggeration here]
>gets told that past stability is not enough proof for future stability and that all things will eventually end
>>47024919
>I'd have assumed you were making fun of the guy I was replying to if it wasn't for what you wrote.
I'm going to assume you've got problems with basic reading comprehension .
>>47025503
ops! missed a link, in case you aren't able to get what's referring to.
>>47024351
>gets told that past stability is not enough proof for future stability and that all things will eventually end
>>47023933
>Scibor
>market share
I'm not that anon, and I do believe GW is dying (slowly), but Scibor having any significant market share?
>>47024919
>believing quantity of lore is the main problem when there's 40k that shows how such a thing does attract people (and it's more lore than fantasy's)
>believing WHFB was "unsalvagable"
>believing WHFB was unprofitable
>believing a middle ground wasn't possible
How retarded can a single person be?
>>47025645
Scibor has taken the market of high-quality, high-priced minis GW's used to have.
>>47025155
>That's right, any single competitor isn't big enough, but there are lots of grown up dwarfs now. Privateer press, Corvus Belli, Mantic, Wyrd Games, Fantasy Flight all do things better in one point or another than GW and were no ones five or ten years ago, and are only growing mostly from ex-gw costumers.
You can say the same thing about WoW. The problem is that the vast majority of people are only going to play one system, because they aren't will to spend the money to play more than that. They'll naturally gravitate to the system with the most players no matter how flawed it is, because having people to play with trumps every other concern. Yes, there's enough disgruntled ex-GW players out there at this point to create a market for other games, but unless one of them comes out on top GW is still going to reign supreme
That's why I brought up 3d printing. Once it becomes cheap and widespread, all that'll be required to put out a new wargame is a good ruleset and a bit of 3d modeling experience. Sunk cost fallacy won't matter as much to players when all it takes to try a new game out is downloading a free pdf of the rules and spend the $5 worth of materials it will take to print out and paint a beginner-sized army. It'll also create an expectation among players of not having to pay college textbook prices for rules or having to sink hundreds of dollars into building your army. All that won't happen overnight, obviously, but if anything is going to kill GW, it's going to be that.
>>47025712
But you can play 2-3 games for the price of a GW game. And GW has already lost many LGS's completely.
>>47025690
Kingdom Death too, they plastics seems amazing. Mierce and Gamezone, even when the owners seem to be sketchy as fuck do some fucking quality.
>>47025553
>gets told that past stability is not enough proof for future stability and that all things will eventually end
Yes, that's totally what I meant. Let's ignore all the times I said I think GW will eventually lose it's market dominance and pretend "I don't think GW is on the verge of bankruptcy" is the same thing as "I think GW will remain the biggest miniature company in the world until the heat death of the universe"
>>47025753
>But you can play 2-3 games for the price of a GW game.
...Which is still a pretty large chunk of money. Just because there are more expensive cars out there than a Benz doesn't make them cheap.
>>47025712
X-Wing has proven that GW's place as the sole gateway to the hobby is over. Nowadays the last advantages of GW are the stores and the remaining 40k community, a community that is more and more disgruntled.
>>47025917
They have an IP that mixes a lot of stuff, they need to make better use of that
>>47025337
Awesome fluff won't make you buy an overpriced and ugly miniature for a game you don't like actually like.
Warhammer got a pass because the ruleset was just as good as the one next door and the quality of the miniatures was good enough for the price. There was no one truly better AND the setting was awesome AND you could find a game everywhere.
Nowadays, half the companies on the market can do better than GW's CAD abortions. And the other half can do cheaper. Most rulesets are better than AoS and 40K. And, with the fanbase divided between three fantasy rulesets and a bajillion house rules for 40K, you aren't even sure of finding a gaming group that plays the same game as you do anymore.
That and GW as a company has never been loved but it's never been hated until the WFB screwjob. You can openly scam your crack-addicted costumers all you want but you can only slam the door on their face once.
10 years ago, you walked in a GW store and you had a lively community with people of all ages playing 40K and WHFB and having fun, staff that were helpful and organized events. The LGS next door was full of neckbeards playing obscure rulesets.
Now, you walk in a GW store, you got one guy tasked to sell as much stuff as he can, you have maybe one or two neckbeards playing 40k with sensibly the same lists of unpainted plastics and bitching about how shit is the game. Maybe another neckbeard is painting some AoS Archaon. The LGS next door is full of people of all ages playing X-Wing, Warmahordes, KoW or Infinity.
>>47026140
More like, 10 years ago you willingly walked in a GW store. Now, you cross to the opposite walkway when approaching a GW store, just to be sure.
>>47026287
I never went back to a GW store after a fat, sweaty staff member followed me around in a really creepy way.
They moved the store to a new bigger unit for the AoS launch that took two months to get ready but it closed down within a month.
>>47026381
We used to have a nice GW nearby where I lived. Eventually the manager left, I think he actually ended up getting promoted because that was his whole goal. Regardless, he was replaced by a guy who basically started hounding customers. Standing nearby them, watching them and really, really pushing products on them. It quickly died, ended up moving to another place and now is run by another slightly more chill guy.
The biggest turn off to me from going into their shops is, a lot of them are run by guys like that now. I figure it's not entirely their fault and the company probably -really- leans on them to push product but, it's annoying as all hell.
>>47025276
>GW caused its sales decline by trying to wring more profit out of it
That's what companies do- they make profit for their shareholders. The primary goal of any publically listed company is to deliver more profit to the shareholder- if they could do it without selling a single model, they would.
>>47025690
>Scibor, the master of pressmoulding
>high quality
ha!
>>47026763
The one I go to a town over is ok, you can't really debate anything with him on quality because he had to tow the line, even if you end up right
>>47023107
>GW's budget is so strained that they are now getting their art from deviantart
I remember when GW was at the top of their game with art, layout and visual design in the previous decade. Seeing what they have become is depressing.
The AOS defenders are mainly people from this pretty heavily prevalent subtype of people who got into wargaming relevantly recently, who will support anything GW does because they gravitate to anything that has the biggest noise around it and don't really have any more nuanced game experiences to compare to. Think about the AOS fans you know, they are all BOLS reading, wacky "humorous" wargame youtube channel watching, mid 2000s neophytes.
GW could make the next version of warhammer into a revamped crossbows and catapults where you physically flick your models into each other and combat is decided by who can knock more models over and they would defend it.
At the end of the day AOS is Star Wars Episode One and the Sigmarines are Jar Jar fucking Binks. People who remember the better days will hate it, but babies and adult babies will love it no matter what. And so the world turns getting dumber and dumber year by year.
>>47027624
>People who remember the better days
Yeah, I wish we could go back to 5th edition, before they decided heroes in a fantasy game are just unrealistic.
>>47012509
>nerdy, genderfluid, cool person.
>Interesting old article from the Citadel Journal, quite topical to Age of Sigmar. It seems this is GW trying to go back to an older gaming philosophy. I look forward to playing games like this.
Wow.
>>47027386
Shareholders are financial lampreys posing as remoras
>>47027591
That art is so grimy and ugly, how can anyone like it?
>>47027386
You seem to be missing the point.
They reduced profits and hurt the long term viability of the game by trying too hard too make money in ways that shrank the playerbase. Pissing off veterans AND making it harder for new people is suicidal, it does not become a good idea because they were stupid enough to think it would make them more money.
One brightspot was that at least GW disgracing themselves with the desperate scrambled points system pissed off the coolaid drinkers aswell. There was actually people posting to the facebook page saying "I DEFENDED THE LACK OF POINTS ONLY YESTERDAY, NOW THIS???" Like they'd been betrayed.
These are same people who say "well, no one has taken your models away, or your books away, just because theres no support, the setting has been blown up and half the rnage has been discontinued, you can still play in your old setting if you want to, why you mad?" And they can't handle that there's now an optional points system in they're wacky comedy rules play pen, no ones forcing you to play points, why you mad?
Is there anything more fucking stupid than defending a lack of points/balance.
A game having points does not prevent it being used for narratives or scenarios. A game lacking points/a real way to balance ruins it for anything approaching casual or competitive play which is most gaming. They praise GW for its laziness as if its an innovation.
>>47027854
They are scared of needing to think
>>47027763
Almost caught me with your bait.
That Bayeux-style marginalia is awesome.
>>47027918
Bait? It looks like shit, like some onr smeared shit on the paper as ink
>>47027854
But don't you know no game is balanced? If I take a landraider in 40k and you take the equivalent points in grots, they can't hurt it!
THEY CANT HURT IT!
Therefore because no points system is perfect its better to completely burn the whole thing into the ground, have no balance whatsoever.
Also because I inevitably sweat and excrete throughout the day, it's better to wallow in human filth and never wash if you are a suboid lowest common denominator morlock like me.
>>47023107
>Rain of Corpses
I'm dying
>>47027751
I am not disagreeing with that assesment at all.
>>47027591
>GW's inner Jew is so great that they are now getting their art from deviantart
FIFY
I can understand quitting a hobby or not buying from a company that's no longer doing what you like but the constant GW hate threads just reeks of angry ex-girlfriend syndrome.
It's like you have to announce loudly to the rest of us how happy and "over GW" you are and how you're glad you moved on but really you haven't at all.
X-Wing is popular with people for lots of different reasons.
Popular IP
No painting
Ship dogfighting combat
Quality assembled models
Good rules
Those are all reasons to play but some people, like myself aren't into it because ships aren't interesting to us or we actually like assembling and painting models as much as playing the game.
>>47027763
It's mortal Sigmar sitting on his throne in luxury. He has won everything a mortal man could possibly achive in a lifetime, he has formed an empire and become Emperor over it. Once sitting there in all his splendor Sigmar realises that there is no challenge left, nothing left to win and there is nothing for him to look forward to.
On the flipside you have powertripping Archaon over here >>47023939 that probably has decided if he can't have it all no one should, because fuck anyone else.
>>47027792
Cant wait for them to panic further and bring back rank and flank with lotr style circular movement trays.
Wont bring the old customer base back but will cause more funny sperg outs from the baby brains.
>>47028135
>It's like you have to announce loudly to the rest of us how happy and "over GW" you are and how you're glad you moved on but really you haven't at all.
The people who like WFB arnt glad we moved on and would like it still to be going. That's the whole point you fucking idiot.
>X-Wing is popular with people for lots of different reasons.
Popular IP
No painting
Ship dogfighting combat
Quality assembled models
Good rules
>Those are all reasons to play but some people, like myself aren't into it because ships aren't interesting to us or we actually like assembling and painting models as much as playing the game.
Fascinating, thanks for your thoughts on x-wing, don't know why we needed to hear that or why you thought it was relevant but it was great to hear.
>>47027946
I mean, obviously it needs more digital color gradients and lens flares... and his feet touching the ground?! You can't have that.
>>47028331
Doesn't even have world of warcraft super deformed proportions for pre teens.
Piece of shit.
>>47010869
Wait what, Chapter Master got shutdown?
>>47028135
maybe not the reason as other people
but with GW and Magic, the main reason I got into them was the visual stuff (nice models/card art). GW also has some fun lore, and Magic has some interesting game design... and I wasn't aware of any other games of a similar type.
I'm now more interested in Infinity (Necromunda was and is my favourite GW game) and Android (much more cohesive "plot")... this is when I'm not just playing computer games instead.
>>47028331
Thank God that GW stopped using artists that produces quality traditional art. It makes it easier to stop buying their products.
>>47028135
>comes into thread about GW turning to shit
>"Why have you guys always got to say GW is shit? I dont like it"
Really easy way to solve this problem.
>>47028135
This is not about GW being an ex-lover. This is about GW being an ex-friend who became a meth head asshole giving blowjobs for money.
>>47023107
Is this actual GW art or is this a troll?
>>47029887
Actual GW art.
>>47028622
It looks like they smeared dirt on the picture I can't see a god damn thing
>>47027624
>GW could make the next version of warhammer into a revamped crossbows and catapults where you physically flick your models into each other and combat is decided by who can knock more models over and they would defend it.
That would objectively be a better game than AoS and 40k though.
>>47030265
Ful ofte in game a sooth I have heard saye
>>47026140
This. Not even 10 years ago, ive seen this happen in the space of the last 3-4 years at my lgs/gw
Age of Sigmar is doing great, three of the new Orruk Ironjaws kits sold out on the webstore before they were even released.
>>47018703
I was specifically talking about the mass combat market which people like to crow about Fantasy having a corner on. Both 40k and Fantasy were already losing general market share to the crop of new games that showed up and managed to stick around.
>>47023933
To my knowledge only two of those actually produce a game, Mantic and Avatar of War, and the latter has failed to gain any traction.
As far as model sales go, people were already buying from them, especially Mantic for unit fillers.
The only one who really gained from a game perspective is Mantic because some people want a supported rule set, however even they have not managed to convince everyone and you have people still playing various editions of Fantasy both official and fan made.
To me that says that mass combat is now a niche if no one was really bothering with it before and now after GW canned Fantasy. Fantasy being the top dog isn't really an excuse either. 40k is/was the top miniature game and that did not stop the creation and propagation of Warmachine, Hordes, X-Wing, Malifaux, Infinity, Frostgrave, etc.
