>ancient, supremely powerful empire
>fought the Necrons at their height
>when necrons buggered off for whatever reason, they remained around and active
>>didn't go around cleansing necron tombworlds while necrons were asleep
>>didn't go around teching up during millions of years to counteract necron tech advantage
>fuck around doing pretty much nothing, for millions of years
>squick a chaos god into existence (okay, everyone fucks up now and then)
>fall, lost ancient empire, lost technology
>fuck around for another ten, twenty thousand years doing pretty much nothing, recovering nothing from their fall, gaining nothing over themselves millions of years ago
>necrons start to wake up
>necrons still have superior tech
>including multiple things with rules that are basically just "Fuck eldar" (Necron fleets in Battlefleet gothic ignore holofields, necron monoliths ignore Lance weaponry's 'reduce target AV to 12'. (I haven't played for a few years, iirc that's how it worked in 5e?))
Why are the eldar so inept? I want to like them, but they seem useless in so many ways.
>>47006842
>>ancient, supremely powerful empire
>>fought the Necrons at their height
>>when necrons buggered off for whatever reason, they remained around and active
So did the Orks, by the way. And some other motherfuckers, but they ded nao.
They were just handed down the toys of the Old Ones.
>>47006842
>Why are the eldar so inept?
Because they were on top for so long that they became complacent with their superiority and didn't think they needed to do anything. Turns out, surprise surprise, that they were wrong.
>>47006890
Orks at least have the excuse of being a clinically designed bioweapon and functioning quite well as intended. They'd probably make a better ancient nemesis for necrons anyway;
>lifeform
>crude and simplistic vs high-tech and advanced
>loves melee (necrons are bad at this, iirc)
>loves foightan (necrons are kind of emotionless about it, to them culling is like lancing a boil)
>spread everywhere, can't be eliminated, lasted millions of years with no notable loss of moment or efficiency or power
Orks truly were the Old Ones' greatest creation.
>>47007156
But then why are so many of their technologies and strategies specifically fucked by necrons? You'd think they'd have more things that were geared to fighting necrons themselves.
>>47007156
To be fair, they defeated every enemy and every challenge that they encountered. Their arrogance seems justified.
>Lhaerial shifted her gaze to Veritus, and her hard eyes made him flinch as if she saw something in his mind and reflected it back upon him. ‘The idea appeals to your vanity? You were correct in what you were saying, through there. You are a tool to us. Our people ruled the stars when this world was ruled by reptiles. Many came against us – the soulless ones, the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable, the cythor and a thousand other races so terrible your intellects could not contemplate them. Even your own ancestors and their unliving legions at the so-called height of their mastery. We defeated them all.
>‘To you we seem a sorry remnant, a ragged glory fading into the void, but we are not yet extinct, inquisitor. What is a few thousand cycles of weakness when set against millions of power? You fell yourselves, your empire is a pathetic mockery of what your kind once had. Mark my words well– unlike you we shall be mighty once again. We would prefer it if there were still a galaxy to rule when we are ready to return.’
>>47007274
>You'd think they'd have more things that were geared to fighting necrons themselves.
Hemlock wraithfighters and distort weapons are super effective against Necrons.
Also the Harlequins are experts at combating Necrons (picture related).
>>47007299
Possibly? I'm not certain on their fluff, but some it it describes them as fighting the necrons futilely, and the necrons eventually going to sleep because aside from the synthetic races built to fight them, they had nothing left to harvest.
Also, there is zero indication of any kind of progress or upward trend in anything the Eldar do or have done, AFAIK. All of it is downhill. Event he Deldar don't seem to progress or go anywhere.
At least the Tau get descriptions of research and new technologies and expanding capabilities.
>>47007359
>Also the Harlequins are experts at combating Necrons (picture related).
Aren't the Harlequins expert at everything and anything they need to be good at?
>>47007299
Pretty much this. The most likely scenario is that the Eldar will take back over once Slaanesh is destroyed. The Eldar were nearly exterminated by another warp entity, the Enslavers, just like what Slaanesh is doing now. The Eldar had much much more dangerous enemies in the materium while this was going on. Yet they survived and thrived afterward. On a side note, why is humanity going backwards? Talk about being inept.
>>47007368
>and the necrons eventually going to sleep because aside from the synthetic races built to fight them, they had nothing left to harvest.
Update your fluff. The Newcron codex has been released since like 4 years ago?
After defeating the Old Ones and the C'tan, the weakened Necrons fled to their tombs to escape the vengeful Eldar.
>>47007455
>The Eldar were nearly exterminated by another warp entity, the Enslavers, just like what Slaanesh is doing now.
M I L L I O N S
O F
Y E A R S
to recover from that.
Likewise, fifteen thousand years to recover from Slaanesh.
Finally, unless I'm gratuitously misinformed, the eldar in >>47007299 wasn't around for the Eldar's golden age anymore than the Inquisitor could have been. They're both talking about things they've only heard tales of.
>>47007507
Alright, my apologies. So after slaughtering the eldar's creators, and their own dark gods, the Necrons fucked off to parts unknown on their own because the Eldar were beneath their notice.
I'm reinterpreting what you said there a little, but it doesn't seem strictly out of line with what you said.
>>47006842
Disregard newer fluff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMHVBOgD0M
>>47007384
Wait, are they a legion of Batmans or a legion of Supermans?
>>47007627
>legion of Batmans
Night Lords
>legion of Supermans
Ultramarines.
>>47007455
>The Eldar had much much more dangerous enemies in the materium while this was going on.
More dangerous than the Necrons? Sauce?
>Yet they survived and thrived afterward.
Judgement reserved until the above is answered.
>On a side note, why is humanity going backwards? Talk about being inept.
Because literally the entire galaxy is trying to kill them.
I don't want to turn this into a pissing match because we have plenty of those, but I'm trying to understand. As far as I can tell the eldar are in the same sort of deathspiral as the grimmest assessments of humanity, and they don't actually have anything to pull them out of it. I am loose with the Eldar lore, I admit, but AFAIK, their big salvation scheme is to have enough of them die to create a new god, who will hopefully godfight Slaanesh out of existence or something?
What about normal teching up, that even the Imperium is (oh so slowly) engaging in?
>>47007299
>Even your own ancestors and their unliving legions at the so-called height of their mastery. We defeated them all.
Kek, keep dreaming space pretty boys. Humanity at its peak without any semblance of central power spread around the whole galaxy fucking orks and eldars alike like they barely were some some space pest not even worthy of total eradication.
>>47007819
The human empire during the Dark Age of Technology was still centered on Terra and failed to contend with Eldar defense systems in the arm of the Galaxy they had settled into.
>>47007997
The "great" eldar empire was on the defensive all along in one arm while the humans were spreading everywhere.
>>47008221
That doesn't mean anything. It could mean that they weren't important enough or big enough to occupy humanity's full attention, or it could mean that they didn't care for the rest of the galaxy and were content to stop humans from trampling all over their garden and that's it.
Nothing meaningful can be inferred.
>>47008221
It's not exactly that demeaning to be on the "defensive" when the conflict is akin to a moth getting killed by the bug-zapper I put outside on my porch while I sit inside drinking a beer watching TV without knowing that it even happened.
>>47006842
It's not that the eldar are inept more than the necrons were badly inserted into the setting.
>>47006842
Eldar can't tech up because their technology is limited to magic and psychic wraithbone. They inherited all their technology from the Old Ones. They are even more technologically inept than M41 Imperials.
>necron monoliths ignore Lance weaponry's 'reduce target AV to 12'. (I haven't played for a few years, iirc that's how it worked in 5e?))
5e was when it was removed, actually; their then-new codex changed Living Metal to a chance to ignore Crew Shaken on a 2+, and Crew Stunned on 4+.
The current version cancels out Crew Shaken completely - nothing for stunned though - and restores a lost hull point on a 6 at the end of each of the Necron player's turns (hull points having been added to all vehicles in 6th edition).
>>47007368
>>47007553
5e:
>Yet even with the defeat of the Old Ones and the C’tan alike, the Silent King saw that the time of the Necrons was over – for the moment, at least. The mantle of galactic dominion would soon pass to the Eldar, a race who had fought alongside the Old Ones throughout the War in Heaven and had thus come to hate the Necrons and all their works. The Eldar had survived where the Old Ones had not and the Necrons, weakened during the overthrow of the C’tan, could not stand against them. Yet the Silent King knew that the time of the Eldar would pass, as did the time of all flesh.
7e:
>And yet, nothing endures forever. In time, even the greatest empires fracture and crumble. To stay the hand of entropy and escape the wrath of their gathering foes, the Necrons chose to enter an aeons-long slumber, reasoning that when they awoke the galaxy would once more be ripe for conquest. That time is now.
>The Necron legions had been decimated by the fury and carnage of the War in Heaven, while their treacherous war against the C’tan had seen billions of soldiers and war machines obliterated by the star gods’ wrath. To preserve what remained of his empire, Szarekh decreed that his people would enter into hibernation. So it was that, as their remaining enemies gathered, the Necrons sealed themselves away within colossal stasis-crypts. Szarekh swore that, when they awoke, the Necron Empire would rise once more.
>>47007299
This sounds an awful lot like Imperial propaganda talking about the great accomplishments of the Great Crusade.
The Eldar are done. They only know that they were once great, but their arrogance is the reason why they'll never actually recover any more than the Emperor will.
>>47010253
Thanks, that helps a lot.
Alright, it seems like the first part of my OP is addressed; why then have they been so ineffectual in recovering from their Fall/Slaanesh/etc?
Why have they spent ten thousand years comparatively doing nothing, no better off than they were in the hours after the Fall?
At least the Imperium has had some progress to go with its loss.
>>47011915
What about Dark Eldar?
>>47012005
Craftworlders live a life of self denial and constant warfare againts Chaos and marauding primitive races to preserve themselves and Exodites from Slaanesh. They reproduce slowly due to their evolutionary rubix cube of a reproductive system and a need for soulstones. All they need to do is preserve themselves until they find a way to kill Slaanesh.
Dark Eldar already have everything they want.
>>47012110
>Dark Eldar already have everything they want.
Surely Deldar have the same old "you know, if I had a technological edge I could stomp my rival's kabal..." kind of motivations that have been with humans throughout history.
>>47012124
To use new technology someone has to invent it. The person who invents it will be able to control those who use it. That's how one Archon gained power, I believe. They were a slave who crafted new weapons but built in a kill switch. They gained a following staged a coup, and when the old Archon tried to stop them they just turned the weapons of their enemies. Though I may remembering that story a bit strangely.
>>47012218
So with Dark Eldar, it happens, but isn't really dwelled upon.
Cool, things aren't as bad as I thought. I mean, they still had a few million years to get on the Necron's level, but at least they're doing something. Better than nothing.
>>47012268
Well it's not really a fair comparison Necrontyr were shriveled pessimists from an irradiated death world doomed to fade into the warp when they died. They bent over backwards to prevent it and were assisted by beings who understood how to bend realspace on an instinctual level
The Eldar had reincarnation and robust souls giving them innate Psyker powers and allowing them to create environments perfect for them that also defended their Psyker activity from warp predators while automated constructs fought their wars for them.
One race has every reason to advance while one doesn't dare give Chaos a possible opening to Doom them all.
>>47012597
I could see slower advancement, but none at all seems a bit much.
I mean, sure, we're arguing about contradictory wh40k fluff, but it seems like the fluff is painting them as... kind of inept, at best, and more likely just sort of cruising on their natural talents/initial gifts of the old ones without any skill or drive being involved.
>>47012268
Keep in mine that the Eldar had to rebuild their entire techbase due to their tech being warp powered and Slaanesh fucking with the warp.
>>47012715
They are a species that lives for thousands of years and lost 99% of the population to a catastrophic event that birthed a god that had a personal vendetta againts all of then. There are Eldar alive who remember it happening.
That'd be like if nuclear apocalypse hapenned around now and you walked up to whatever survivors there were a hundred years later and asked them why they don't have a moon colony yet.
>>47006842
So how much shit did the Eldar develop themselves vs inherit from Old Ones?
>>47012895
It's kind of independent of their lifespan. Regardless of what it is relative to that, they have had fifteen thousand years (give or take) to do... literally anything. And their big plan involves "enough of us die to make a god who can god-fight slaanesh".
Kinda... underwhelming, you know?
>>47012974
They've had 10,000 years of being plagued by a degenerate God while a horde of Monkeigh murdered the few survivors of their apocalypse with very limited ability to reproduce. This after MILLIONS of years of relative peace.
What did you expect.
>>47013132
literally anything other than "maybe if enough MORE of us die, our problems will go away".
>>47013210
What technology could help them killl Slaanesh? That outcome is the only one that matters and technology plays no part in it.
>>47013445
Why is slaanesh as a chaos god so much more dangerous to them than the rest? Why didn't slaanesh endanger them (or warn them) before they squicked it into existence? (Given that Slaanesh's fluff says that as a chaos god, s/he/it is eternal and without any chronological beginning or end)
>>47013634
Slaanesh is their God. They are directly responsible for her birth. The death of their old gods fed its rise into a predominate power among Chaos. It knows them and understands them at their most horrible depths of depravity. It has a personal desire to consume every single one of them and does so the moment any Eldar dies when lacking a spirit stone. It actively tries to find any entrance it can take to eat Craftworlds, Exodite settlements, or the Dark City itself.
Chaos gods have no chronological beginning or end in the Immaterium. They have always existed in some muted form as some primal desire or drive. Besides, Slaanesh did pray on them before she was truly born into the Matterium. She absorbed and encouraged the debauchery and excess the Eldar had fallen into, inspired them to turn away from their gods that provided order and restraint to their lives and instead worship a horrible pleasure Goddess that allowed them to go batshit crazy. Her birth gave her a claim over all Eldar souls.
>>47014214
One thing here, Eldar aren't immediately swallowed by Slaanesh. It actually takes a while, which is why the Dark Eldar drag their dead back to Commorragh. They can regenerate them. Even Eldar thousands of years long dead can be regenerated if enough suffering is exuded to fuel the process, although it gets more complicated as time goes on and there can be complications.
