>mage 2e announcement
http://theonyxpath.com/may-the-fourth-be-with-you-mage-the-awakening/
>Previous Thread: >>46979583
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/mByuG93b
>>47005117
So what are vampires afraid of now?
>>47005166
Nothing, and therefore everything.
>>47005166
Fire, sunlight, personal stuff.
>>47005166
One another.
>>47005193
thats stupid.
Why must everything I like be taken away from me?
>>47005204
>Fire
But the rules for them being deathly afraid of fire dont exist
>>47005204
>sunlight
Nigga that's a funny ass joke
>>47005166
Gold.
>>47005218
>>47005221
Fire and Sunlight are much harder to stop with Resilience.
>>47005218
>But the rules for them being deathly afraid of fire dont exist
They can still frenzy when they see fire. You just choose the frenzy. Like "get away from the fire" or "kill the source of the fire"
It doesn't have a separate special mechanic for fear frenzy
>>47005253
>It doesn't have a separate special mechanic for fear frenzy
But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Why was oWoD better?
>>47005285
>But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Vampires aren't animals
>>47005299
The Beast was supposed to represent their animalistic and predatory nature
And all living beings have a fight or flight response...well Vampires are not living but you get the point
>>47005253
You don't need mechanics to enforce "holy fuck that deals Aggravated damage to me."
>>47005324
Now it represents other things, and not all living beings have a fight or flight response
>>47005358
I guess I just liked oWoD Beast better. If push comes to shove I think I just like Masquerade better.
>>47005166
Sunlight/Fire, Like always.
AlsoChilderlike Always.
>>47005387
Good
it does not mean it is better
but part of having an intelligent opinion with thes e things is knowing they are not the same game or meant to be
>>47005427
Some stuff of Requiem is cool. I like the covenant system (even if I only like a couple of the covenants themselves) and some of the new bloodlines are cool (usually way cooler then the original clans imo) some neat lore I guess. But the stuff I dont like is either to me just too different,I like better in the old system or it makes me roll my eyes.
>>47005166
>>47005117
>>47005218
>>Rotschreck dont exist
>B-b-but I liked the Red Fear
Just because "Rotschreck" and "Wassail" don't exist doesn't mean that Vampires no longer experience fear or hunger.
>>47005285
>But it perfectly simulated the animals fight or flight response.
Which is... Frenzy. Nevermind that there were multiple reasons to Frenzy beyond Fear and Hunger to begin with.
>>47005387
>>47005358
>>47005324
>>47005299
Vampires are animals. The Beast is atavism incarnate. It's the desire to feed, fuck, and wreck shit. The Beast is lust and greed and hunger. The Man is rational thought and decency. The Beast is the lizard brain turned up, the predator stalking the tall grass. The Man wants comfort and security and connections. The Beast whispers into your ear “I'm hunger. I'm thirst. Where I bite, I hold till I die, and even after death they must cut out my mouthful from my enemy's body and bury it with me. I can fast a hundred years and not die. I can lie a hundred nights on the ice and not freeze. I can drink a river of blood and not burst. Show me your enemies.”
Whether you stalk the boardrooms or humiliate your victims in the club or you run through the woods chasing a coed with gobbets of her blood staining your naked body, The Beast is an animal. Metaphorically and literally. It is
>>47005412
>Also Childer
Why don't you love me, Vampire Dad?
>>47005528
You could always just play Masquerade using Requiem 1e's ruleset. Just have the Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarch/Other, Inferior Factions serve as the Covenants.
>>47005589
this is aspel
aspel doesn't know anything about vampire, just disregard him
>>47005602
I was planning too
>>47005592
>Anarchs
>Camarilla
>Sabbat
>Inferior
The only covenants I really liked in Requiem were the Invictus and I GUESS maybe the Ordo Dracul.
>>47005602
just because someone replies to more than X posts at a time, that does not automatically make them Aspel.
>>47005602
He's right though, so it probably isn't Aspel
>>47005634
The post layout and words they use are EXACTLY like the last time I argued with that autist about Vampire
>>47005602
>>47005634
>>47005653
No it's Aspel. Calling it.
>>47005758
Just who is this Aspel person anyway?
>>47005771
An autist. Dont worry
>>47005623
No, no, no, you misunderstand. I'm talking about inferior Independent Masquerade Clans, like "Snake men who are bad" and "Sad Middle Eastern Murderers". They can be covenants along with Superior, Good Factions like the three I mentioned.
>>47005771
General regular with very strong opinions with the amazing superpower to bait everyone into a major derail by browbeat ing them.
>>47005980
>I'm talking about inferior Independent Masquerade Clans, like "Snake men who are bad" and "Sad Middle Eastern Murderers"
yeah fair enough those guys are a little boring. Not saying Masquerade is perfect but I do like it more then Requiem.
I like beast. I think its a nice little toolbox to use in chronicles
>>47005589
>ywn be a constant disappointment to your sire.
>>47006338
At the heart of every Vampire story, there exists a "I must bond with my disappointed aging father played by Robert Redford on this fishing trip along the deadliest river" story.
>>47006338
For some reason your greentext made me think of Hank Hill.
It's a shame we can't have a Propane themed Vampire Bloodline because of the fact they wig out around fire.
>>47006582
>I sell Vitae and Vitae related accessories
>>47006582
well Rotscheck is no longer a thing so have fun
>>47006636
Vampires would still be pretty wary around fire, since it still does bags of aggressive damage.
>>47006749
just dont shoot yourself
>>47006780
Even being around a torch-sized fire provokes a Frenzy at -2 to resist.
>>47006780
That's a point, maybe the Bloodline should morph guns that work like an organic air rilfe, only instead of air its propane, and instead of shot it's pieces of crystallized Vitae.
>>47005602
>>47005634
>>47005758
>>47005653
I am Aspel. But I'm also right. How are you people so unfamiliar with the games that you argue about?
For fucks sake, half the shit I'm saying is paraphrased from the book.
>Every step she takes, every corner she turns, a Kindred’s Beast stands ready to face threats, to defend territory, and most importantly, to feed. To the Beast, everything is a challenge, a potential conquest, a meal, or a combination of the three. To other predators, the Beast is a palpable thing, something that identifies another monster.
>The Monstrous Beast: This represents the Beast-As-Destroyer. Its every instinct is to rip asunder. The monstrous aura inspires a witness to fight or flee. It evokes the most primitive survival instincts in its victims, and causes the Bestial Condition (p. 301). The
>Seductive Beast: This is the Beast-As-Tempter. It needs hot abandon, and a temporary escape from reality. It inspires the need for immediate, throwaway coupling. It evokes the primal need for instant gratification, and causes the Wanton Condition (p. 307).
>The Competitive Beast: This is the Beast-As-Alpha. It needs to come out on top, to command, to control. It inspires power plays and dominance games. It evokes the need for a rigid hierarchy, a food chain, and causes the Competitive Condition (p. 302).
>>47006636
Doesn't mean you aren't at risk of Frenzy.
>Sometimes, the Beast grows impatient. When the vampire faces danger, hunger, or threat, the Beast goads her to immediate and extreme response, usually meaning a blood-soaked frenzy. Frenzy comes from many sources, but always shares the same response: End the problem by any means necessary.
>When faced with a strong enough stimulus, the vampire risks losing control of her Beast. She can temporarily hold the monster inside, but eventually she must face her monstrosity. Either she’ll force it down, or the Beast overwhelms her to fight, feed, or flee.
But what do I know, I don't read the books.
>>47006963
reminds me of the terrible sequel to Bloodrayne where your guns shot out blood pellets and you reloaded by letting your guns "drink" humies blood.
>>47007068
fine your right. I just like oWoD beast better. Happy?
>>47007068
>How are you people so unfamiliar with the games that you argue about?
aspelputstheirownheadintheguillotine.jpg
>>47007147
Another thing I was thinking with this bloodline is they use Celerity to give themselves Red Dead Redemption style bullet time and speed up their reloads.
>>47007282
What even are you not getting? I've shown you quotes from the book that prove my point. I clearly know what I'm talking about. That's not a brag; I don't have some hidden insight. That's... "I read the book". I'm as familiar as anyone else who's read the book.
>>47007147
Why do you like the oWoD Beast better? I'm pretty sure it was more or less the same, not the animal that lashes out at danger and little more that you characterized it as last time (and since you are clearly the same person from the other thread, I have to wonder why we're going through this again).
>Beast, The: 1. The primal drives of a vampire that threaten to turn him into an uncontrollably ravenous and/or zombie like. 2. The drives and urges which prompt a vampire to become entirely a monster, forsaking all humanity.[1][2]
>The Beast is an innate demonic predator that awakens within each and every vampire upon their Embrace. It stands in direct opposition to a vampire’s Humanity (and in some cases the Paths of Enlightenment) and is responsible for many of the debased urges Cainites feel on a nightly basis. In times of extreme distress the Beast can overwhelm a vampire forcing them into a state of pure animalistic fight or flight, which is referred to as Frenzy or Rötschreck.
Frenzy is only one part of what the Beast is. It's with every Vampire all the time, even when they're not freaking out over cigarettes.
>>47007567
I love that you bitch about elitism and shit, then act all elitist.
>>47007595
>Knowing basic aspects of the game you're talking about is elitism
>>47007620
He claims that's elitism when it comes to video games. If you act knowledgeable it's elitism by his standards.
>>47007567
>What even are you not getting?
I'm not even the person you're arguing with, you just had an opening for a joke and I took it.
>>47007567
I guess I always interpreted The Beast in oWoD as just survival instinct ramped up to 11.
Just one more day thats what you work for. Lie cheat kill and steal and fuck over everyone before they fuck you over. Every day just keep hustling. And when its trapped,scared,hungry and afraid it lashes out and its some wild animal thats wearing your skin and you have no control over anything. The less Human you are the more animal you become.
New Wraith20 preview, a chapter on The Risen. It's so hot off the word-processor that it's in...White Wolf formatting tags!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B57iDF62OjtPNlJVVlplNVRFd3lMTDJFN1NCX2pUcTVyMUFV/view
I just had the strangest idea for a Changeling; He's a Nightsinger, Minstrel, Thusser AND Flamesiren, all rolled into one...His Keeper turned him into a barbershop quartet.
>>47007992
why wouldn't the keeper just divide him into four beings?
>>47008365
Why do the logical thing where you're a True Fae and don't have to give a fuck?
>>47007992
I think at that point you'd just be a Chimera.
David Lynch fucking sucks
>>47008879
>hating on twin peaks
>>47008879
That's a random unprovoked thought...
>>47008879
No, he's actually pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nztUH5lbRMw
>>47009053
>>47009069
>>47009072
His movies blow
>>47009137
His comic's pretty good.
>>47009137
I just realized
Wolf was a Pangaean, and there are wolf spirits
Harvest was a Pangaean, and there are harvest spirits
Was there a Moon Pangaean, before Luna?
>>47009348
Is it possible that Luna's a Pangaean that became a spirit after the world became Sundered?
>>47009137
What does this have to do with anything, though? It's unrelated to anything in the thread.
>>47009348
Wolf didn't turn into wolf spirits.
Father Wolf and wolf spirits existed simultaneously.
Some Pangaeans turned into spirits because there was no place for them.
But whether there was a Pangaean or not doesn't affect whether there was a spirit or not.
It is possible Luna was a Pangaean but she seems to be more of a spirit.
>>47009404
No, because then Werewolves wouldn't have the special place they are, being a merger of flesh and spirit. Though if I recall, some of the stuff in the corebook calls Urfarah a Spirit as well.
>>47009434
I didn't mean to imply that they became the spirits; they're certainly the forebears of the spirits, though, if the example stats we got for Fox and Harvest are anything to go by(both had powers that made spirits)
What I meant, mostly, is that the Pangaeans all preceded whatever they embody, while spirits are formed from the perception of whatever they embody, and thus came after.
Logically, this means there must have been a Moon pangaean, right?
>>47009464
They still would, because a Pangaean is a mix of flesh and spirit.
But Neolithic section calls her a spirit and there's no reason to think she is a Pangaean.
>>47009464
Ah, that's a great point. In that case, I could see a Pangaean for Moon and Luna existing simultaneously without actually being inter-related.
>>47009501
>Logically, this means there must have been a Moon pangaean, right?
Not necessarily, there doesn't have to have been a Pangaean for everything.
>>47009534
I got the impression from the Neolithic chapter that things that get to be Pangaeans are most likely the major aspects of day-to-day life in the age: dangerous predators, common prey important tasks for survival, that kind of stuff.
>>47009646
that's spirits
>>47009646
Though similar to spirits, Pangaeans are — along with
werewolves — the true natives of the Border Marches. They
are powerful symbols of natural cycles and forces, the gods
of weather, the seasons, and the animals. Unlike spirits, they
are not reflections of the world but pillars of it — primeval
divinities born in this rift between worlds. Each Pangaean pos-
sesses colossal power, and the Wise believe such an entity may
even be a fallen inhabitant of the Supernal World, trapped
between Flesh and Shadow by the end of the Time Before.
>>47009709
And this is why I should have the chapter again to make sure before posting. Thanks anon.
>tfw I have character concepts for vampire but they are fucked and kind of unusable in Requiem
I had an idea for a toreador but now I cant use it because the Deava are not Toreador and the bloodline of Toreador are not what I want for my character
>>47009894
What's your concept? Some of it might fit more with a Covenant than any particular Clan.
>>47009894
you can just play masquerade
but why couldn't you use it? what's this idea?
>>47009894
Masquerade is a piece of shit just like everything in oWoD so I think you're lying
>>47010009
This Anon brings up a good point.
>>47005589
nice CS Lewis reference
>>47009894
Daeva are not Toreador, but that doesn't mean they can't be.
Roll 10-Humanity or become entranced by a subject of art.
>>47010273
Such a badass boast.
I don't particularly like the reading here (I always imagined The Werewolf to basically be the wolf from Neverending Story, and with a quicker cadence) but still:
https://youtu.be/TKIbuXsN2F4
>>47009979
>>47009986
Well I did a bit more research on the Daeva and it may be doable after all but I will explain what I wanted to do.
The idea was that of a young standout wrestler in highschool and college decided to try his hand at MMA as a hobby. After a promising Amateur career he turned pro won a couple fights eventually ending up at his (future) sires club as a venue for a small time promotion he was fighting with. The owner of the club was a bit old school,considered it an uncultured bloodsport but let the event take place because it would bring in customers and money. It was a short but very impressive performance and the sire saw something that the others lacked. A grace, a certain artistry to the ultimately ugly conclusion. Captivated in the moment they embraced them but quickly this flight of fancy passed and was embarrassed and ashamed. Basically abandoned and realized that he could not realize his dreams of wrestling in the Olympics or winning a world title he grew to hate his sire though of course the abandonment did not help. Of course you cant just assassinate an older much more powerful vampire without consequence so he must gain a powerbase himself. He didnt have the political subtlety and nuance to court the more high profile power players but maybe he could connect with the untaped potential of the masses. What do the Gangrel and Brujah like more then a good scrap? Why not create a vampire fight club? It could be his Elysium,domain and a way to generate income through betting.
Is this a shit idea or no?
>>47010009
You are wrong sir.
So, Demon possession only seems to become a big thing in the Final Nights of cWoD, due to the cracks in the abyss forming.
Are there any appearances prior to the Final Nights? What were the odds of someone dying, and a Demon slipping in? I mean, was Lucifer just pulling the strings of other supernaturals, or has there been a background of Demon activity (just lesser) prior to the Final Nights?
I'm just trying to put together how I might be able to work them into OWoD without having to wait a decade for a splabook that might not even release. I suppose the systems won't be so incompatible that the Fallen material won't be usable. I just need to get a solid grasp of how they fit the oWoD before the Final Nights.
>>47010533
>"My Toreador's art is martial"
That cliche subversion works *better* with Daeva.
>>47010789
despite there actually being a premade character in one of the Toreador books for a Kung Fu master?
So, Mage 2e comes out soon.
I have like 10 cabals to at least give a bit of identity. Fuck me.
>>47010882
Yes
>>47010882
Why wouldn't a Daeva be a fighter? They have the disciplines for it. They have the passion for it.
Hell, if one wants to make a combat monster in Requiem, Daeva is the go-to clan.
>>47011214
Daeva always seemed to be the edgy kind of "sex drugs and rock and roll" clan that I always found boring and cheap. Toreador were always way more interesting to me. But I guess I could be a Daeva. Still not as cool tho.
>>47011293
Sure. And fighting, and rebelling, and warring, and preaching.
They are Toreador + Brujah.
Sure, there is sex, drugs, and rock&roll in there, but it's far, far from all of it.
They are the strongest, fastest, and most amazing vampires there are.
>>47011394
>Toreador + Brujah.
Exactly thats why I hate it. I miss when Toreador were just that.
The only good clan in requiem is Ventrue.
>>47011478
You got some really shit taste m8, Masquerade is indeed perfect for you
>>47011478
Because they are the only ones who haven't changed, you mean?
>>47011491
Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.
>>47011527
No the Gangrel have not changed much either. But I always found them a bit boring...except for Becket hes awesome. The Nosferau changes are ok. Though I am not a fan of Mekhet and Daeva. Most of the Daeva bloodlines are lame too. Though most of the bloodlines for the either clans are way cooler then the original.
>>47011555
You should go back to /v/ where you belong, with the old worlders
>>47011527
Ventrue are definitely tonally distinct in Requiem. The shift from eldest clan to youngest, the loss of Majesty/Presence, and their aggressive expansionism does a lot to shift perception of them from socialite kings to bloody conquerors.
But compared to every other clan's changes, they are pretty minor.
>>47011555
>Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.
Masquerade is very dated. It's firmly rooted in 90s attitudes and aesthetics, not to mention it was produced when White Wolf was at its highest in terms of "rules are an illusion, which we suck at".
It's a classic, and I like it, but I wouldn't want to play it again. There's too much about it I'm tired of.
>>47011555
>No the Gangrel have not changed much either. But I always found them a bit boring...except for Becket hes awesome. The Nosferau changes are ok. Though I am not a fan of Mekhet and Daeva. Most of the Daeva bloodlines are lame too. Though most of the bloodlines for the either clans are way cooler then the original.
The Gangrel are less animalistic. Less weird. More bestial.
Why don't you like the Mekhet and Daeva?
>>47011555
>Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.
My big problem is the lack of player options. The clans are too damn narrow.
Tremere = Wizard
Ventrue = Ruler
Tzimisce = Body-horror madman
Malkavian = Regular madman
And so on.
And no political choice except joining the sworn enemy of your people.
>>47010882
Just because the book made a sample character of a stereotype subversion so common that it's a stereotype of it's own doesn't mean anything.
Also, there's no reason a Daeva couldn't enjoy fighting. There's even an Invictus Bloodline in 1e (and now an Invictus Fighting Style in 2e) that's all about beautiful combat and using grace, poise, and wit to cut your foes down just as much as with well placed blows.
>>47011214
Iunno. Especially in 1e the Agg claws was worth Gangrel.
>>47011293
>>47011478
>>47011555
Masquerade vampires are about Stereotypes.
Requiem vampires are about Archetypes. This is even more true in 2e.
In Masquerade, Beckett is highly unusual because Gangrel are savages who are dumb brutes. In Requiem, hunting for knowledge and being a social predator are valid and common expressions of the Bloodline, and the Gangrel are capable of being leaders and priests (albeit often of the Circle).
Daeva are everything you want from the Toreador. Or the Brujah. Or anything else, because the Daeva are passion and life wrapped in a cold, dead package. They're one, both, or neither. Because Daeva aren't a hard and fast stereotype.
>Why does everyone hate Masquerade again? I am still confused about it.
Because it's a mechanical and thematic clusterfuck with little to no consistency. The mechanics are counterintuitive from even a mechanical standpoint. Most of the clans are super stereotypes where you either play a cookie cutter parody or you're intentionally going against what 90% of the clan is all about. On top of that, the themes and tone are very particular to the 90s, especially the humour.
>>47011706
>Iunno. Especially in 1e the Agg claws was worth Gangrel.
Yeah. In 2e the lack of Celerity and Vigor is just too damn much.
>>47011706
>Masquerade vampires are about Stereotypes.
>Requiem vampires are about Archetypes. This is even more true in 2e.
This is exactly what I meant with this >>47011669, only worded better.
>>47011604
>It's firmly rooted in 90s attitudes and aesthetics
Which is awesome. Also all of the backstory was great too. For vampires anyway.
>>47011620
Ancient Egyptian Secrets I always found a bit boring and Daeva to me are kind of generic.
>>47011669
>The clans are too damn narrow.
Not with that attitude. I always liked thinking outside of the box.
>>47011706
>Requiem vampires are about Archetypes
You just nailed my problem actually. I never felt trapped when thinking of character ideas in Masquerade and in comparison Requiem feels aimless.
>Beckett is highly unusual because Gangrel are savages who are dumb brutes.
It did not matter what clan Beckett was he was just awesome. He could have literally been anyone.
>Gangrel
>Dumb Brutes
>Not being an old timey British big game hunter
Not trying hard enough.
>>47011838
>It did not matter what clan Beckett was he was just awesome. He could have literally been anyone.
Then why did you use him for an example of Gangrel being awesome?
>Ancient Egyptian Secrets I always found a bit boring and Daeva to me are kind of generic.
Ancient Egyptian Secrets. They are literally the most diverse clan of Requiem, and you focus on a past so distant that it literally doesn't matter any more.
>Not with that attitude. I always liked thinking outside of the box.
Yes. But when the options are "way outside the box" and "just like everyone else", there might be cause for concern.
>>47011920
>there might be cause for concern.
I never found it restricting what can I say?
>>47011942
How to put my problem in better words...?
Masquerade was about clans.
Requiem is about covenants.
In Masquerade, your clan is one of the biggest defining things about you.
In Requiem, the people you choose to work alongside is the biggest defining thing.
>>47011971
And the covenants are not as interesting as the different sects and each of the different clans can decide to join any of the sects they want.
>>47011998
The Sects are literally:
Illuminati
Crazy Anarcho-communists
Genocidal maniacs
How the FUCK are they more interesting than the Covenants?
>>47012046
The history and the three way dance that has been going on since ancient Rome? idk what to say except I always found it super cool.
>>47012046
I'm not them, and more of a Requiem fan, but it's broader scale, deeper history, more antagonistic interplay. Masquerade has a different approach to its Vampire Politics than Requiem does that some people like more. That's about it.
>>47012112
Pretty much this.
>>47012083
The ONLY interaction the Sects have with each other is to try to kill each other.
It is impossible to have a coterie with three Sabbat members, two Camarilla and two Anarchs.
Also. You are off by about 1000 years.
>>47011838
The 90s attitudes and aesthetics are pretty dumb. The whole Caine thing is also really really dumb, and especially with the modern nights situation, by default every player has to play someone who's completely ignorant about something that would be stupidly obvious to any player even without supplements like Book of Nod. The game book spends tons of time telling you about Caine and Antideluvians and all of that shit, yet the default player character faction has a party line of "that's all make believe". The way that Caine and Cainite and all of those other terms are used, every Camarilla character is like if Ted Cruz didn't believe in God even as he bases his everything on religion.
Meanwhile, "Ancient Egyptian secrets" is one fraction of a sliver of what the Mekhet are, and Daeva are not boring, they're one of the more obvious archetypes. They're the same tropes as the clans you seem to like. While you might like thinking outside of the box, there was still a box in oWoD, and there isn't in nWoD. The clans are anything you want them to be.
If you find that aimless, that's on you. Meanwhile, your oWoD character ideas seem to only consist of subverting the stereotypes. Because it's pretty fucking impossible to just make a character that's also a vampire in oWoD. They have to be a stereotype. They don't get to just be incidentally part of their clan. Everything they do is wrapped up in their stereotype, even if they go against it.
>>47012131
At this point, especially now that Requiem 2e is a thing, I think it's pointless to compare Masquerade to Requiem. They're two takes on what it means to be a Vampire that have broad similar themes and occasionally terminology, but vastly different expressions of those themes. It's still close enough in the greater picture to make stuff like the Translation Guide viable, but the small details of difference matter.
>>47012154
>The 90s attitudes and aesthetics are pretty dumb. The whole Caine thing is also really really dumb,
>>47011971
>>47011998
The Clans in Requiem being literally everything about your character is the worst part. Again, you HAVE to be a stereotype or a subversion. You can't just be a character. The sects in Masquerade are also both childishly stupid (as >>47012046 puts it), and pointless. The Camarilla and Anarchs are barely all that different, and the Sabbat is so monumentally incompetent that it strains suspension of disbelief. Not to mention that anywhere with a high crime rate or "urban" population is canonically Sabbat territory.
On top of that, the Sects are all tied to your stereotype, because, again, that's what Masquerade is all about. There's no freedom. You either work against the stereotype or you're a subversion, to the point that as far as the game is concerned, the subversions are LITERALLY different bloodlines. You want to be a City Gangrel in the Camarilla? Too bad, they're Antitribu, that means they're Sabbat. Oh, you want to be a Gangrel in the Camarilla? No, no, they all unanimously agreed to leave the Camarilla after Zarathustra started thus spraking all over India.
Sure, you can be one anyway, but then you're just a subversion of the stereotype.
>>47012112
But the deeper history is bullshit. Plus, most people seem to ignore the parts where Requiem DOES have historical "Canon" things.
>>47012204
Sell me on Caine.
>>47012219
>Not to mention that anywhere with a high crime rate or "urban" population is canonically Sabbat territory.
And all highly religious areas.
>>47012183
im not comparing them. I just really like Masquerade.
>>47012235
The first ever murderer in human history was cursed by god to continuously walk the earth and feed on the blood of gods children. Thats fucking radical.
>>47012219
>>47012258
>Expecting realism in WoD
Now you fucked up.
>>47012132
That's not what people want in a Masquerade game. The politics of Masquerade are not the politics of Requiem and vice versa. You can have a preference, I know I do (It's Requiem by miles), but don't expect one to work like the other and then get mad when it doesn't do that. That's not the intention.
>>47012154
>every Camarilla character is like if Ted Cruz
Stop it. For goodness sake, Aspel, stop it. Every attempt to make an analogy to real world current events with WoD/CofD concepts you do just gets more and more embarrassing. The fact that you do this while disparaging how dated the Masquerade setting is an irony that gives Alanis Morissette more cosmic power.
>>47012277
>is an irony that gives Alanis Morissette more cosmic power.
Can't you guys just agree to disagree? Honestly it's the VtR guys who are being fags, let the Masquerade guys enjoy their game, you enjoy yours.
If the Kung Fu Toreador guy is still around, either use V20 or modify the Requiem rules for oWoD vampires. It's a good enough concept for a character, and make him a very fancy fighter, flashy, about the art and finesse of it. Perhaps have him be entranced by opponents, provided they have sufficient skill. Complimenting a hunter who is trying to kill you on their sword technique could be both eerie and hilarious.
>>47012219
It doesn't matter if you think the deeper history is bullshit, what matters is that it's there in more emphasis than the history of the Covenants, and more world spanning. Some people like that more.
>>47012370
Welcome to the magic of WoD edition wars. It used to be much, much worse than this,
>>47012269
The Caine origin story isn't the dumb part. Everything else is.
Also, I don't want realism, I want verisimilitude. Or at least internal consistency and basic logic.
And also not "all the areas with lots of black people are Sabbat".
>>47012277
Everything in this thread will be dated in like two days. This thread isn't a roleplaying game system. I don't need to say "It's like if this hyper religious politician didn't believe in Jaysus" to make sure my comment makes as much sense in 20 years.
>>47012370
No one is saying he can't like it. We're just equal amounts butthurt and gobsmacked that he said our game is worse, and the reasons he gave were unsatisfying. I mean, he said he feels like there's no focus, but it's not like there aren't sample concepts.
>>47012370
Actually for that character instead of having the "roll to defend against being stunned by the arts beauty" I was going to roll to avoid starting fights with people who had high physical stats/brawl.
The fencer idea I had though was for a French Dark Ages Toreador though less about the fencing and more about protecting his ghoulified daughter.
>>47012502
>And also not "all the areas with lots of black people are Sabbat".
Are you forgetting Montreal being HUGE for the Sabbat?
>>47012535
>Are you forgetting Montreal being HUGE for the Sabbat?
It's not that all Sabbat areas are black, but that all black areas are Sabbat.
>>47012502
>he said our game is worse
Worse for ME. I like both games I just like Masquerade way better. On the whole I like nWoD more so calm yo tits.
>>47012535
Not Toronto?
>>47012557
Also Hispanics.
>>47012569
>Also Hispanics.
Which doubles as religious areas. Which are also Sabbat.
Crime and Faith, wherever one is strong, you'll find Sabbat.
>>47012557
>but that all black areas are Sabbat.
What about Spain? Thats huge for the Sabbat.
Also the Brujah are super black in modern times as well but you conveniently leave that out because you want to cry racism. If you want to attack WoD for being racist bring up the Gypsy book.
>>47012569
I thought it was Montreal? In either case it was Canada
>>47012618
And most of Italy as well.
See >>47012618
>Crime and Faith, wherever one is strong, you'll find Sabbat.
>>47012618
>Also the Brujah are super black in modern times as well but you conveniently leave that out because you want to cry racism. If you want to attack WoD for being racist bring up the Gypsy book.
It's not the racism that bothers me. It's the classism.
>>47012672
>It's the classism.
What?
>>47012618
>>47012651
>Implying spics and greasers are white
lmao
>>47012887
Well they arent. But they also are not niggers which is the original point.
werewolf: the forsaken people: sell me on the Hunters in Darkness because aside from how much I like Black Wolf I'm having trouble figuring out what their whole...deal is.
>>47013272
You aren't the only one who don't get them.
They, and the Elodoth Auspice are mysteries to me.
And I'm a huge fan of Forsaken. Just... not those two points.
>>47013272
What don't you get about them?
>>47013314
They're mostly about pursuing targets across territorial boundaries, as well as specifically targeting the Hosts. They're also big on stealth.
All the other Tribes tend to avoid crossing into foreign territory, but the Menina specifically make a point of chasing anything they were hunting that leaves their territory.
>>47013314
Whereas Cahalith are the fairer face, Elodoth are the sinister one. You send a Cahalith to tell stories of the past and charm, but you send an Elodoth to deliver warnings and threats.
Elodoth is the Auspice you pick if you want to focus on planning things out, and acting as an arbiter.
Whereas a lot of people think of Werewolves as Spirit Police, the Elodoth are Spirit Lawyers.
>>47013850
>Whereas Cahalith are the fairer face, Elodoth are the sinister one. You send a Cahalith to tell stories of the past and charm, but you send an Elodoth to deliver warnings and threats.
Hmm. I'm not sure I'd agree it's that clear cut. The Cahalith are the Monstrous Aspect for a reason, and their Auspice gifts revolve around terror and nightmares for a reason.
While Elodoth are definitely the lawyers, lawyers aren't exactly a sinister face; their farcical reputation aside, their job is to persuade and cajole people.
>>47013917
Myeah. And this I don't get. What does a bloodthirsty hunter need a lawyer for?
The other four auspices I get, but why lawyers?
>>47013960
>The other four auspices I get, but why lawyers?
Well, "lawyer" is a bit of a joke. They're diplomats and arbiters by virtue of occupying a halfway position in werewolf society, much like how werewolves are themselves dual creatures. They embody the fringe outsider nature of werewolves, like how Ithaeur embody the spiritual shamanism and Rahu embody the terrible physicality. They don't quite fit anywhere, and can thus squeeze in everywhere.
>>47013917
You have a point. I got them a bit mixed up; the Cahalith is the beast that scares you into submission, the Elodoth is the one that gives you a hard choice.
>>47013960
The Forsaken aren't bloodthirsty hunters; not every Hunt needs to end in death. The Elodoth is there to help facilitate the Hunt that ends in a deal, and keep people(and Spirits) to their word. And when they can't do that, they're the one who has a Plan B that will bring things to a quick end.
>>47013816
I guess I'm having trouble figuring out what a Hunter in Darkness does besides...be a werewolf who hunts real good. I get their idea of the sacred, and the whole "viciously defends one territory" but "hunting" and "territory" are things that almost every werewolf cares about. What makes the Hunters in Darkness special?
>>47014157
Every werewolf fights. What makes a Rahu special?
Every Auspice performs universal werewolf activities, the distinction tends to be the intensity of it and to what degree they hold that activity as sacred above other werewolf activities.
As for what they do besides hunting, they tend to be the ones who negotiate between packs, they are often but not always the social leaders of their packs, they're good at operating in human society. Elodoth are glue and scalpel, better at fine activity than Cahaliths. Just compare their Auspice Gifts.
Are you familiar with Exalted? Elodoth are Eclipses.
>>47014157
HiD is the Tribe that stalks their prey across the land, beyond borders, and makes sure the job is done. Any other Tribe will probably stop giving a shit once the trouble leaves their territory, but the HiD will keep chasing.
To paraphrase the book, Hunters in Darkness are the Werewolf as they work in a horror movie. You step into their sacred place, they'll chase you to the ends of the Earth, and pick off your friends one by one, until they know they can kill you.
>>47014397
Really? As I got them they were the ones who are loyal to their territory beyond all else, and refusing to leave it.
>>47013960
>Myeah. And this I don't get. What does a bloodthirsty hunter need a lawyer for?
They deal with people/spirits/other monsters.
An elodoth will talk to the vampires and make sure they know what's going on and why someone was just ripped to shreds in their territory.
They'll broker a peace with insane shadow gods.
They'll have the cops stay out of that one neighborhood you're going after your prey in.
They're also the judges (more accurately), in that they can be called upon by other werewolves to broker alliances (they have auspice gifts that help this happen).
>>47014443
yes, they are more focused on their territory, idunno where he got the idea he said
they tend to protect special places
but sometimes their territory may become more abstract like "the highways of america" or "the rivers of egypt" or "anywhere a mother rests her head"
>>47014443
if someone violates a sacred place, you've got to seek retribution. to the ends of the earth for punishment and all that.
>>47014562
And thus allow any chucklefuck walking into your sacred places to violate them?
That sounds like a really bad way to protect sacred places.
>>47014581
the pack has humans, wolf-blooded and a totem for a reason.
>>47014598
To get killed when the fighters are away?
>>47014443
Shit, you're right, I misread a couple of lines.
Still, they're the quintessential horror movie Werewolf; piss them off, and they'll stalk and terrorize you until you're right where they want you, and only then will they kill you.
The other tribes hunt differently.
Blood Talons? Precise, planned strikes, aimed to cripple the target as much as possible before they move in for the kill.
Bone Shadows? Investigation and research, and then a swift attack using everything they know, to kill it as quickly as possible.
Iron Masters? Cut off their resources, leave them with no escape, and then move in; may not even end in a kill.
Storm Lords? Find their weakness, then find a way to bring it to bear in the fight, so you have the advantage.
>>47014625
no
>>47014757
>>47014757
So. What are the R&D guys and the midwives going to do when the enemies of the pack roll in while the werewolves are in Slovakia hunting the last guy who pissed in their Locus (metaphorically speaking).
>>47014819
a). don't let the enemies know that the Uratha are out.
b). if a). fails resort to c).
c). Fight real clever.
wolf-blooded have an edge over mortal hunters and even those guys can manage to pull off a few wins before they die horribly.
They can find a way.
>>47014819
spirits + totem + mortal connections + silver bullets + cell phone to call pack
>>47014819
If you have traveling werewolves you have a traveling pack.
>>47015066
anon you're putting way too much strength on npcs
if a bunch of pure enemies come your wolf-blooded are dead
>>47015433
STs who turn all allied NPCs into helpless idiot children the moment the PCs stop babysitting them are cancer.
>>47014819
its called a story. Really common in the storyteller system.
>>47015433
>wolf-blooded and human packmembers
>npcs
You make them, they're your PCs, you even play them when your werewolf isn't around.
>>47015066
>>47015149
>>47015460
I just don't get why a tribe focused on defending their sacred places should have to be nomadic.
Kind of fucks with their Oath.
>>47015501
>>47015501
They aren't, the guy even said he read it wrong.
>>47014638
Hunters in Darkness are about their territory, like this says.
>>47014547
>>47015523
>They aren't, the guy even said he read it wrong.
So why are people defending the idea, then?
>>47015555
Because packs can BE nomadic, it's just not a given.
>>47014547
>but sometimes their territory may become more abstract like "the highways of america" or "the rivers of egypt" or "anywhere a mother rests her head"
But mostly they were defending your argument that having wolf-blooded and humans at home meant that they were all going to get murdered if you step outside your territory, which is the kind of thing that shouldn't happen unless you've decided to have a 13 year old who hasn't read the book be your ST.
All werewolves claim territory. The smart ones treat that
territory with respect, but the Meninna take it to another level.
Their territory is theirs, and by virtue of being theirs it is sacred.
The First Tongue term the Hunters use for their territory is
mus-rah, or “holy killing ground,” and that should tell you all
you need to know about their views on territory.
>>47011838
>>Not being an old timey British big game hunter
>Clayton as a Gangrel
Now that is what I wanna see.
>>47016088
There was one character like that in the revised clanbook
>>47016088
>Clayton
who?
>>47016108
duh
Clayton, the hunter
its like you don't even watch anime
>>47016125
From fucking Tarzan? Thats a Pull. Tho I was thinking more of the one from Jumanji
>>47016108
The antagonist of the Disney Tarzan movie. McLeach from the Rescuers Down Under could work just as well though.
>>47016145
>Tho I was thinking more of the one from Jumanji
That could work.
>>47016179
Pith helmet and all
So, what was this guy do you think? Clearly not Kindred. Do Ghouls show up as supernatural under Auspex? I get that this is game mechanics and not necessarily true of what would be in the tabletop, but working with what I have.
Fallen, perhaps?
>>47016145
>the one from Jumanji
You barely need to change a thing, he pretty much comes out of torpor and buys a modern gun with doubloons.
>>47016411
can you check Murcurios Aura?
>>47016411
Fallen, Mage, maybe a Changeling or even a Risen.
>>47016458
>buys a modern gun with doubloons.
Didn't he get into an argument with the owner of the shop about the validity of the money? I haven't watched Jumanji in a while.
>>47017354
I remember he had some problem but he solved it by applying more gold coins, so I'm thinking it was registration.
So, uh, the pastebin doesn't have any of the WtA breedbooks. Any dice on them?
So /WoDG/ my werewolf pack is feuding with another of the mean streets of Cincinnati, this fucking twat by the name Jim Speers keeps trying to fuck us up. Please give Advice on how to deal with him.
>>47017424
>applying more gold coins
Truly the best solution to your problems if you've just woken up from Topor.
But seriously Van Pelt would be an awesome Gangrel. can oWoD vamps taken out of clan Disciplines? because I can see him having a discipline similar to Nightmare if we go by his quote.
>A hunter from the darkest wild, who'll make you feel just like a child.
>>47017544
Have you tried killing him?
Or physically proving your dominance?
That usually works.
>>47017570
He's a elder werewolf with a established back and us lot are a bunch FNGs although we did rescue his son from the Pure. Plus our little fetish maker is going out with his daughter.
>>47017614
So he's probably doing that because he thinks you're chumps.
Do something suitably badass to get his respect.
>>47017566
Absolutely, they just cost more and you might need a tutor. But Animalism is native and has powers for turning people into prey.
>>47017634
I guess its time to cross the river and bring back the heads of the pure.
You know I was thinking just now "Hmm, how do I make a unique Nossie Bloodline that has Dominate and has replaced its Obfuscate Discipline with Animalism?...Oh! I know, I'll use parasitic Nematode worms that they have control over with Animalism and are using to infest every part of their bodies except for their blood, skeleton, skin and eyeballs! That's a great idea! And the amount of worms in place of their body systems should increase as their BP increases until they are naught but a seething pool of blood and parasites!"
I am a very strange individual.
>>47019451
Why? What do they need Dominate for? I think you should avoid just shuffling around the Disciplines completely. But beyond that, why does this group need Dominate?
Unless you plan to go for a more Nosferatu style gross out version of the Melissidae.
>>47019775
>Unless you plan to go for a more Nosferatu style gross out version of the Melissidae.
That was entirely my plan. But what you have to say about Dominate is right, maybe they just infect people with their worms and use Animalism to control them that way.
>>47010469
what movie is this?
>>47020142
The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian.
>>47019815
Or, since they're a Bloodline, they have a unique Discipline or Devotion for doing things with their worms.
So, what would be the best way to stat up Jesse from Preacher?
I'm thinking either oMage, oHunter, cofd Proximi, or just an ordinary mortal with a permanent spell effect on him.Bump
>>47021632
Wouldn't the Word of God be more like an endgame level Benediction?
>>47019451
Watch the Strain.
Is it okay to play with the corebooks (chronicles, werewolves etc...) or do I absolutely need splats to play?
>>47021893
werewolf is a splat
but you can play just mortal
>>47021893
You don't need anything more than the core books.
>>47022055
>>47022101
That´s good to hear, thanks.
I'm a huge fan of Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines and I want to try to convince my group to try out World of Darkness. What's the difference between Old World of Darkness, New World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness? Which is the best for a modern campaign?
>>47011478
>Having shit taste
>>47012219
>after Zarathustra started thus spraking all over India
mysides.jpg
>>47022213
New World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness are basically the same game, there was just a name change a few months ago.
Old World of Darkness is what VTM:B was based on, and was made mostly in the 90s, and so has a lot of very 90s ideas attached to it.
For a modern game, I'd recommend Vampire The Requiem 2e, or Vampire The Masquerade: 20th Anniversary Edition
VtR2e is the nWoD/CofD Vampire game, and cuts down the Clan count to 5(Ventrue, Nosferatu, Gangrel, Daeva, and Mekhet. First 3 are more-or-less the same as their VtM version, Daeva is a more general version of Toreador, and Mekhet are a combination of Lasombra, Ravnos, and Tremere, basically), does away with the Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarchs/Indies, instead having 5 Covenants.
V20 is a rules update/reprint of VtM, that lets you play it as entirely metaplot agnostic.
Personally, I'd go with Requiem 2e for a Modern game, but it's up to you.
>>47014279
>they're good at operating in human society
I thought that was the schtick of the Iron Masters.
>>47022523
>metaplot agnostic
I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean I can ignore Gehenna or something else?
>>47022589
Iron Masters are good at using human society and technology in the hunt.
Elodoths are good at dealing with people.
>>47022713
You can ignore Gehenna, the Week of Nightmares, and everything else, if you want. Including the Gangrel leaving the Camarilla, and anything else that the Metaplot changed mechanically.
>>47022746
I goofed: You replied to someone asking about Hunters in Darkness, so I thought that's what you were talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIiXuYULbY4
This Makes me think of Changeling
>>47022819
Nah, the guy who made that post goofed and replied to someone talking about HiD.
>>47021681
Or a human accidentally given a Mummy Utterance.
So you need Life to affect lifeforms and you need Matter to affect objects how do you do anything without having dots in these Arcana? I always thought 4 dots let you affect others but apparently I'm wrong. What's dot 4's significance?
>>47023657
4 dots is "Create" in spirit influences, which are roughly parallel to 1e Mage arcana.
So you need 4 dots in order to "create" a connection, allowing you to combine the arcana
>>47023657
>So you need Life to affect lifeforms and you need Matter to affect objects how do you do anything without having dots in these Arcana?
Not quite.
You need Life and Matter to affect living and nonliving patterns DIRECTLY. Forces can manipulate forces affecting something without specifically affecting the thing, and likewise Death can target the aspects of Death lingering on a living thing (cold, darkness, their injuries) without directly dealing with the living thing.
If you want to turn a human into a ball of fire, you need Life and Forces, but if you just want to throw fire (which falls under Forces) at a human, you only need Forces.
>I always thought 4 dots let you affect others but apparently I'm wrong. What's dot 4's significance?
Dot 4 in the Mage arcana unlocks Patterning (completely transform one thing into another thing within the Arcana's purview; turn a human into a dog, turn fire into electricity, etc.) and Unraveling (severely and significantly harm a manifestation of that arcana; completely destroying a human's arm with Life, dramatically reduce entropy in an area with Death, etc.)
>>47023750
He's talkin about mage, not Influences, and no, they absolutely are not roughly parallel.
>>47023750
That doesn't really answer his question at all
>>47023657
The third dot is the practices of Weaving, Fraying, and Perfecting. Weaving lets you make minor alterations, but nothing that would turn the target into something altogether different than it already was.
The fourth dot is Patterning and Unraveling. Patterning lets you alter the fundamental parts of a pattern, which would let you turn a life form into an entirely different life form. This is also the dot level that lets you turn skin into stone, or anything else non-organic, because it's a fundamental change of the target, but you still need, iirc, 3 dots of Matter/other Arcanum to do so.
>>47023834
>>47023853
It might be because its from a 1e rote, but couldn't you turn Plants into Insects with 2 dots in life? That seems an awful lot like patterning.
>>47023996
You could, and yes, 1e core didn't actually use the Practices as-written, because it used all of oMage's spells for examples, and oMage spells didn't use the Practices.
Hi, I am completely ignorant about World of Darkness setting and gameplay, but I read this fanexpansion called Genius: the Transgression and it sparked my curiosity since I love Mad Science.
Do people ever discuss it in these threads?
>>47025002
>>47025002
Nope. Which is rather surprising, honestly. It's mostly made to shit on Awakening, which is a lot of what happens in these threads.
>>47025002
Why do people dislike Genius?
>>47025192
It has some really toxic defenders.
>not playing Beast exclusively
>>47025113
I guess I am stupid. Please explain why?
>>47025192
It's just lackluster.
It fills a very, very specific niche, one that doesn't really have much 'horror' associated with it.
>>47025278
>>47025279
WoD players hate homebrew. It is to us as pork is to Jews.
>>47025192
bad mechanics & out-of-tone with the official games. Which is fine for a fan game but I think it rubs people the wrong way.
>>47025192
Lots of reasons. I personally dislike it because it is just Ascension: But Science This Time, and it attracts the worst parts of the oMage fanbase because of it. The horror aspects are also minimal to nonexistant, so it doesn't mesh well with the actual setting. If I was going to allow fansplats, I'd at least want one that fits the tone of WoD a bit better, even if the mechanics were Changing Breeds bad (aka Leviathan, Dragon, or even Princess).
>>47025278
I want to try Beast just to see how quickly my group gets fed up with it.
>>47022213
Be aware that the tabletop game will NOT play like the Bloodlines game, particularly since a LOT of powers were redone or made up whole cloth to fit it into a FPS framework. You can't Dominate a dude to die, for example, or fire blood bolts with Thaumaturgy.
For a 'modern' chronicle it depends on what you want. Both have a decent level of mechanics and OWoD has a slightly more robust, but more involved, combat resolution method (typically involving 4 rolls) as well as a lack of any semblance of balancing. There's lots of metaplot and this metaplot is what Bloodlines is built around, so if you want to use that metaplot, this is what you'll at LEAST need to study for storyline.
NWoD is different enough mechanically that, despite it actually BEING the 1e for CofD, I consider it a separate thing. It's got a tighter mechanical focus, though requires more books (to play vampires, for example, you need the WoD core and the Requiem core, since you build a mortal and then make them a vampire; it works out nicely though, the WoD core is great for mortal-based supernatural and horror games.) Mechanics are less wonky and require less rolls for things, though there are a LOT of mechanics spread amongst the books. There are no real 1-to-1 comparisons for OWoD, and it has a looser lore due to being a toolbox setu and is more 'here are options' than advancing storyline. Some mechanics are a little bland, as they didn't go far ENOUGH away from Masquerade.
CofD is the 2e, and everything is (mostly) included in the main core, so you'd only need VtR2e to play vampires. It's mechanics I can't comment on though, I haven't really played any of it, but it uses roughly the same baselines as NWoD. It's also a toolbox thing, with no set default 'lore with more open options.
So really, it's based on what you want.
>>47025298
>It is to us as pork is to Jews.
...I thought pork hate was a Muslim thing?
>>47025370
>le Beast is bad meme
What is wrong with crossover exactly?
Everyone likes Scooby Doo, except WOD players apparently
>>47025406
Tomato, tomato
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1462136976680.webm
>>47025192
CHARTS AND CHARTS AND CHARTS AND CHARTS
>>47025406
both
>>47025407
If you think crossover is the #1 reason people dislike Beast, you may not have been paying attention.
Has anyone thought of or work and advanced and epic Endowments?
>>47025463
>waah waah muh tumblr
I choose to ignore gibberish screeched out by outraged retards
>>47025475
How do you mean exactly?
>>47025477
>assuming this hard
>>47025407
>What is wrong with crossover exactly?
Nothing.
But you know what? Beast fails the literal #1 rule of crossover: you NEVER take the other guy's heat.
If you crossover Iron Man and Hulk, fans Iron Man should walk away with a new appreciation for Iron Man AND Hulk, not walk away thinking Iron Man is awesome and Hulk is stupid. Same for fans of Hulk.
Beast wants fans of Beast to walk away thinking Beasts are awesome and everyone else is stupid.
So even in this imaginary world where the only objection to Beast is crossover, Beast fucking fails at that.
>>47025406
Both. Deserts are seriously bad places to raise pigs (they need lots of water), so a religious commandment to tell them not to was just what was needed.
>>47025407
WoD does not, and has never, handled hodgepodge multi-splat drifting crossover well. If you honestly believe Beast does it well, you are wrong. If you honestly believe crossover is the biggest problem with Beast, you're retarded. But you're just trying to bait a Beast fight that's been done to death. /tg/'s talked about Beast more than Beast will ever get played.
>>47025407
The Crossover part is good. The Lair part is good.
But the game is a mechanical mess, and completely lacks direction.
Beast backers just got Mage, FYI
>>47025535
>But you're just trying to bait a Beast fight that's been done to death. /tg/'s talked about Beast more than Beast will ever get played.
Yeah. But at least it's something to complain about 'til Mage gets released.
Then the Mage supremacy fights will start again.
>>47025583
>2000 years later
>Egyptians still full of shit
>>47022963
Oingo Boingo has a lot of songs that work for Cofd. Like Dead Man's Party and No One Lives Forever for Geist; Weird Science for Ordo.
>>47025477
>a game that can get uncomfortably close to Abuse: The Justification with little to no real acknowledgement of it
>being weirded out by this must mean you must be one of those "anti-tumblr" weirdos
>>47025593
How would fucking little girls work for changeling?
>>47025583
Prove it or stfu
>>47025583
Fffffffuck.
