Old school image edition
Orks arent so bad sub edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>Novels (Working link as of 02/02/2016)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
First for "OP IMAGE SUCKS BECAUSE I HAVE BAD OPINIONS ABOUT STUFF"
>>46998379
second for where is chickin?
>>46998379
all of the things that you just said are true
>>46998353
ork flyer rules when? i am so hyped
Do we have an IRC/other chat medium?
>>46998397
>About the ork flyer:
>140 points 12/10/10 3HP
>(Cannot translate the ork weapons)
Twin-linked 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Gets hot
1x 36" S1D6+4, AP1, Heavy1
5++ vs one single hit each enemy shooting phase (May be exchanged for an ork energy shield 5++ to be bearer and all models at 6" for +25 points)
>>46998410
where do you think we are?
>>46998414
>The stormhawk costs 125 points and comes with: Twin linked assault cannon, twin linked heavy bolter, "super laser thing" (24", S9, AP2, Heavy 2), Ceraminte plating, and one use ítem that allow the stormhawk reroll when jinking.
>Has the supersonic special rule.
>May exchange the laser thing for an Icurus Cannon for 155 points. May exchange the heavy bolter for a Typhoon missile launcher for +20 points or for a Celestial hammer missile thrower for +5 points.
Whelp what do you know, the marine flyer is actually 5ed Vendetta v2.
>>46998414
>140 points 12/10/10 3HP
>TL KMK
>Underslung mek gun
>can upgrade to KFF
:-)
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xJbRLYD.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
So when are the new rules for the flyers coming out ? Do we know what they will be and how they will fit into the regular game ?
>Hi all,
>I already have my copy of the book, and after a quick go-through:
>(As usual, translations may not be 100% correct)
>- There is a new detachment:
>Air Superiority Detachment
>Is formed by 1-3 Flyer Wings*
>Restrictions: All models have to be chosen from the same faction
>Benefits:
>- Air commander; If the commander of the Wing is in reserves, re-roll interception, If you have superiority and your Chief is in Reservers you add +2 to your reserve rolls instead of 1.
>- Combined formation: You choose to make a single reserve roll for the whole formation if you want.
>- Transport that have the hover mode have the Objetive secured rule.
>Of course I need to read the book to know what it all means.
>All the existing flyers have the same point costs and rules as in their current codex.
>>46998468
>The book says that all the flyers described in this book replace their Data Sheets in all the current codex. Seems that this rules are coming to stay.
>FMC are not in this book.
>The datasheets are:
>- Valkyries
>- Stormhawk Interceptors
>- Stormtalon
>- Stormraven
>- Storm wing (Formation)
>- Strike Wing (Formation, 2 Stormhawks + 2 Stormtalons)
>- Blood Angel Stormraven
>- Grey Knights Stormraven
>- Dark Talon
>- Nephilim
>- Ravenwing abductor squadron (Formation, 2 Nephilim + 1 Dark Talon)
>- Stormwolf
>- Stormfang
>- Ice Storm assault pack (Formation, 2 Stormwolves + 2 Stormfangs)
>- Heldrake
>- Razorwing
>- Voidraven
>- Blackheart Talon (Formation, 2 Razorwings + 2 Voidravens)
>- Crimson Hunter
>- Hemlock
>- Shroud of Kurnous (Formation, 2-3 Crimson Hunters + 1 Hemlock)
>- Night Scythes
>- Doom Scythes
>- Oppressor Flight (Formation, 1 Night Scythe + 2-3 Doom Scythes)
>- Blitza-Bomber
>- Burna-Bomber
>- Dakkajet
>- Wazbom Blastajets
>- Ork Skwadron (Formation, 3 of any but Wazbom Blastajets)
>- Kustom Wazmob (1 Wazbom + 3 up to three of any other ork flyer including the Wazmob)
>- Razorshark
>- Sun Shark
>- Air caste Support cadre (Formation, 2 Razorsharks + 1 Sun Shark)
>>46998447
Anon explain to me how the dark angel fliers will be useful just because the mechanics for fliers as a whole change.
I'm picking up the dark angels codex up today and really want to know how our fliers are not still shit.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIdGMKqXXDY
Hey yall..
>>46998477
>I will try to sumarize the new stuff:
>All Flyers have now three new Atributes: Combat Role, Pursuit and Agility (the more the better)
>When shooting there are two types of targes: Ground and flying. Flying targets are FMC, other Flyers, Jetbikes and Grav vehicles. The rest are ground targets.
>New rule: Air superiority: If a player has Flyers in Reserve at the end of the Aerial Duel Phase can add +1/-1 to their reserve rolls. Opponent has -1 to reserve rolls.
>Any flyer can now make an additional pivot at any point of ther movement if they roll their Agility or less in a single D6.
>Only Flyers with the Attack Role can have AA when shooting, but they have -1 BS when shooting Ground Targets.
>Flyers do not benefit from cover (Terrain or other models)
>When moving Flat Out you can add your Pursuit to the distance
>The different combat roles give different bonusses depending on the type of the Attack Pattern.
>There are 6 different attack patterns. If I could post a picture of the patterns I would do it, but I think that it is forbidden ...
so are we flyhammer now? can I still play without getting tabled without super special flying hellturkeys and spiky boomerangs?
>>46998477
Thanks. Any particular changes to the stats ? I'm looking specifically at the Nephilim, I hope it's finally okayish.
>>46998491
>To sumarize a litte bit:
>Duel Phase happens at the beginning of each Player's turn. It is optional. It only involves Flyers in reserve or active reserves. If a player wants to skip the phase, roll a d6. Winner decides.
>4 Subphases:
>Interception
>Aproximation
>Maneuver
>Attack
>INTERCEPTION
>Each player roll a D6. Winner (after applying modificators) is attacking player, the other defending player.
>APROX, MANEUVER AND ATTACK
>During each phase each player chooses secretly a Tactic, then compare tactics in a table and apply results.
>At the end of the Attack phase, resolve a shooting phase between both flyers, applying the mods from the previous phases (if any)
Threadly whine about lack of plastic sisters. I see threads from 2010 saying it'll come soon.
>>46998496
What I posted is all that is known for now. But the stats for flyers didnt change at all (outside from role/agility/speed stats. Nephilim is already known to be Fighter with normal agility and greater than normal speed. Those will affect dogfighting)
>>46998410
There's a discord server but it's pretty dead.
https://discord.gg/0vhztUCQWDoXziLH
>>46998505
Life is pain. Death is the only release short of plastic sisters.
>>46998477
So none of the forge world ones
aka
all of the recognizable flyers?
>>46998505
Just be a little patient, i have heard from good source that they are just around the corner.
>>46998477
I'm a bit worried that Vendetta isnt on the list. Maybe its just a upgrade for Valkyerie (they pretty much are the same vehicle, just like Leman Russes are and Hellhounds)
>>46998531
I was literally just reading a thread from 2010 saying that.
>>46998519
No. FW have to update their flyers with new rules for combatrole/agility/pursuit.
Before that happens FW flyers are un-usable outside of friendly game where you just pick up the values for them with your opponent.
>>46998477
By Valkyries, I can assume it includes Vendetta right?
>>46998538
They were wrong, i am right, you can take my word for it.
>>46998538
Have faith, sister
>>46998546
You can assume that. But we dont know it yet.
>>46998509
Thanks. I will be happy if he finally excels at something or is a good generalist.
Nice, GW replaces the old, incredibly cheap flyer kits with these new ones by throwing in a token sprue and bumping up the price. to match the later released, far more expensive flyers.
Gotta find one more old, cheap dakkajet for a conversion project. After that I'm done. Wonder what upgrade kit they'll invent for the DE flyer to make it more expensive. At the moment it's a great deal for CWE to use as their own flyer. The design isn't even that off from CWE flyers. Just replace the guns, pilot and paint in in craftworld colours.
>>46998595
>own dakka jet from before
>decent 7/10 paint job
might just sell it for like £55 and buy the new kit
>>46998546
Or, you know they mean Valkyries.
>>46998495
yeah. most armies have ground based AA and there's AA fortifications everyone can take.
>>46998735
>most armies have ground based AA
25 PPM Flakk Missiles don't fucking count. They should be free, and thy still wouldn't be enough.
Going to expand my collection so I can start playing 750pts. How does this look for a well rounded league list? I'm not sure how much I need the velocity trackers at 750 points and I'd really like to keep the cadre fireblade since I like them. I know I'm going to see at least one flyrant already at this point level and maybe a voidraven. Lots of bikes too I bet from the DA player. Don't really want to take bigger suits.
HQ
Cadre Fireblade
Troops
Strike Team - Ten fire warriors for the fireblade to join.
Strike Team - Four warriors led by a shas'ui with markerlight and target lock.
Elites
Stealth Suits - Two suits led by a shas'vre with a fusion blaster, markerlight, and target lock.
Crisis Suits - Two suits with two missile pods and velocity trackers led by a shas'vre with a missile pod and Puretide Engram.
Fast Attack
Pathfinder team - Four pathfinders and a Shas'ui.
Heavy Support
A Hammerhead armed with a railgun and submunitions, twin linked smart missiles, blacksun filter, and a disruption pod.
>>46998749
>he dosent have a quadgun
>>46998749
then go the fortification route, there's several options there.
A firestorm redoubt with its pair of quad icarus cannons will fuck 1 or 2 flyers each turn if you really want to get rid of them.
>>46998489
What happened to based Duncan?
>>46998780
Looks solid.
I assume the idea is to "cascade" the markerlights from unit to unit. You might have issues with AV14, but you shouldn't see too much of that here.
Unless your local area is full of dicks, skip the velocity trackers, and just rely on your 12 S7 missile shots. Volume of fire helps a lot against most fliers.
>>46998489
>get rid if King Duncan
>replace him with a 5/10 chink
>has the same voice as my mum
i dont know how i feel about this
>>46998509
Are the new stats depended on their role/classification or do invidual flyers have different stats ?
>>46998749
Hydra, manticore, sabre gun platforms, razorback, traktor kannon, battlesuits, praetor assault launcher, pylons, war walkers, dunecrawlers, agesis defense line etc...
EDUCATE YOURSELF
>>46998427
Pretty sure it's just sky hammer not celestial get that AoS the fuck out of here
>>46998863
>razorback
>good AA
>>46998845
I want to fuck your mom then
>>46998815
Yeah, thats the idea. I was also thinking all the target lock markerlights could help set up for a round of BS4 markerlight fire from the pathfinders if I really need to just cover something with them too.
Thanks for the reassurance about the trackers. I'm going to guess I'll be seeing one flyer every other game, but at least the league rules I looked at mentioned only one flyer is allowed at 750.I'm just really gunshy of flyrants I guess even if theres only going to be one at the moment.
So post removing the trackers I can get a second missile pod on the crisis shas'ui and sensor spines on the hammerhead with twenty points to spare. I guess I could just get support turrets on the strike teams for even more missiles. As for AV14 I don't think I'll see any either no guard in the league and of the two marines players one is using Ravenwing so no landraiders. I'm not being that guy by being this neurotic about listbuilding am I?
>>46998902
Neither is a single solitary quadgun, yet retards post that as a rebuttal all the god damn time.
>>46998903
really? i mean shes a lovely woman, but shes like 56 and kinda on the chubby side. Are you just attracted to english women?
>>46998910
is mediocre AA, but ALL armies can have it, and its a damn sight better than a razor back you tard
>>46998499
Being the attacker or the defender has no difference except if both choose their second option (Tail/Hold Steady).
Since the defender will be scared of that solution it will avoid Hold Steady unless mind games (which he can't do often).
So, for the attacker, Roll Right is the better option because defenders will pick Hold Steady less time.
Of course if you pick always Roll Right, you will be predictable.
>>46998918
I'd say a pile of free Razorbacks is better than a 100 point dual-autocannon.
>>46998902
>>46998910
No one said anything about good aa. The faggot just implied that he doesn't have access to aa outside of some missles. Follow the conversatio m8
>>46998849
given that they're releasing new data sheets wity the neew stats added to the statline they likely vary by individual flyer. There's probably general trends based on role though. I'd bet fighters are usually high pursuit and bombers are usually low agility.
>>46998943
>there is no problem with AA
>everyone can just take le quadgun ;^)
So, there's a chance that Heldrake's are going to get something special to represent them tearing other fliers apart in glorious CQC, right? Right?!
>>46998849
All flyers have different stats
>>46998866
If you read it from the start, you would figure out that they are translated names. Spanish I believe.
What the fuck, I just walked in to a store today to find out they renamed fantasy boar boys "gore-grunters" for AoS.
>>46998970
if you want something better than the quadgun just take it. The quadgun is hardly the only AA fortification option.
>>46998989
they already do. They're the only vehicle flyer that gets vector strikes.
>>46999003
>gore-grunters
How does this surprise you? Games Workshop is awful at naming things. Just look at the Wolf Wolf codex.
>>46998989
With luck, Vector Strikes are going to be factored in. Without such luck Baledrakes are as useless as ever and are forced to eat enemy flyers shooting every dogfight phase.
>>46998970
>anon lists a bunch of other aa units
>continue to be a giant faggot about quad guns
>>46999017
Which currently doesn't do diddly for this new "Buy hundreds of dollars of fliers and play rock-paper-scissors to destroy them before they hit the table" phase. I just hope that the Heldrake isn't about to complete its journey into obsolescence.
>>46999037
That retard included multiple non-AA units, and half of his list is IG shit.
>>46998904
>flyrants
Well, honestly, you likely wont be killing it even with a couple of S7 skyfire shooting.
>I'm not being that guy by being this neurotic about listbuilding am I?
Nah, I can garantuee you that pretty much everyone does this. You wouldn't bring a lot of anti-marine shit if there weren't any marines, and you wouldn't bring heavy anti-armour, if no one brings anything higher than AV12 vehicles.
That's just common sense.
>>46999051
Are you retarded? Like actually retarded? Have you never even picked up a codex? Do you even play this game? Literally, I have not met someone this retarded on here since carnac.
>>46999082
>razorbacks
>skyfire
>war walkers
>skyfire
>>46999096
Get back to your tard wrangler, he/she is probably very worried about you.
>>46999096
Dont be retarded and actually play this game sometimes instead of being fucktard in mongolian basket-knitting forums.
>>46999040
the helldrake at least is an especially tough flyer. it's probably going too survive the reserve interceptor phase and make it too the TT.
>>46999096
units don't need skyfire to be AA options. Volume of fire and twin linked can be sufficient.
Sure its not an amazing AA choice, but we're not talking about only amazing AA choices.
>>46998491
>>Only Flyers with the Attack Role can have AA when shooting, but they have -1 BS when shooting Ground Targets.
My Dakka jet gets bf 1 when shooting at ground targets... can´t make this shit up.
>>46999182
>ork players in charge of reading their codex
>>46999069
>Well, honestly, you likely wont be killing it even with a couple of S7 skyfire shooting.
What do I do by the time he has three of them at 1500? Matches are supposed to be organized by players in a friendly manner since its a long running escalation league, so can I just say no to that? I don't really like the look or mobility of missile sides from what I've seen of them and I always hear tau flyers are pretty bad when velocity trackers exist.
>Nah, I can guarantee you that pretty much everyone does this.
That sounds fair I guess, thanks. At present the registered players are using: Necrons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Skitarii, Tyranids, 30k Death Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orcs, and of course my Tau.
I'm most worried about bikes, thunderwolves and long fangs, wraithguard, flyrants, and the choppy necrons whose names I haven't learned yet (lychguard? those cool spider worm things too). No idea what Death Guard even does yet other than be slow and tough. He did say something about wanting to bring a fire raptor at 750 though just to do it.
>>46999096
warwalkers can talke eldar missile launcher which get flak
>>46999215
Don't they get flak for free with their missile launchers though?
>>46999197
Whats your point?
Im pretty sure bf 2 minus 1 equals 1.
>>46999272
I think >>46999197 he means you might have strafing run or something, making it 2 after the +1 and -1. Which still sucks since the new rules are still an effective -1 to your best flyers BS. Guess thats one way to sell new flyers.
>>46999272
You even had a chance to look up the dakkajet datasheet again yet you didn't. Amazing.
>>46999272
The point is that you dont read your codex.
Dakkajets have Strafing Run.
>>46999272
Dakka Jets have Strafe, which adds +1 BS when shooting at not-flyers
>>46999272
ye but dakkajets are BS3 vs ground targets.
besides I'm not sure why you're complaining. everyone's fighters are getting the same nerf.
>>46998780
That crisis loadout is good for 750, you may want to give them different weapons at higher points values though. Magnetising would be a good idea.
>>46999226
that's what I said.
So war walkers are an AA option. Plus you get supplimental AA from dark reapers or swooping hawks.
Basically dumb anon is down to saying that SM don't have powerful ground to air options.
>>46999311
Some races can afford nerfs more than others
>>46999300
>>46999304
Wow thanks, i didnt know that. Didnt field it since 5th edition.
>>46999353
given that dakkajets have high volume of fire and twin linked they're one of the races that can afford it.
>>46999317
Magnets, got it. I'll start looking for some guides on that. At higher points I was thinking about deepstriking them with flamers and fusion blasters. Recommendations on loadouts other than that? I really don't know what to think of the plasma, good strength and ap but only a few shots from BS3 models.
>>46999365
pretty sure it had that rule even then.
>>46999369
>orks can afford nerfs
Do you even play the game, or are you just a competitive shitposter?
>>46999210
>I don't really like the look or mobility of missile sides from what I've seen of them and I always hear tau flyers are pretty bad when velocity trackers exist.
Skyrays are really good, and can reliably take care of most fliers by themselves, and have built in velocity trackers. Remember that markerlights make snap fires better, so a couple of markerlight shots on a flier will make your non-skyfire units very good at dealing with it.
>>46999096
>needs skyfire in order to fire at aircraft
>>46999435
>Skyrays
Oh yeah, kinda just forgot about those. I really like the hammerhead so I guess I was just focused on it instead. I'll have to work at least one in at the next points escalation. Thanks for the tip.
>>46999401
i just mean the dakkajetis relatively unaffected by the global nerf.
>>46999514
>just forgot about those
So did GW, when they made a decurion that straight up didn't allow you to include it. From memory, it is the absolute ONLY unit we cannot take in the decurion.
And the 1 we can from Mont'ka, requires 3 hammerheads to get 1 skyray.
>>46999555Nice trips
Really? Should I just ignore the decurion until like 1750 or 1500 points? Three hammerheads and a skyray sounds hard on points even if the hammerhead is one of my favorite units so far. The only books I have are my core rulebook and codex, I'll start downloading Mont'ka from the OP database now to check it out. Its not super cheesy is it? I like my friends, even flyrant guy.
Just how long can a Custode's name get?
>>46999648
As long as your mum's fanny is wide.I may have started drinking already.
>>46999680
I'm confused. Is this a British fanny or an American fanny?This will also help give context to your drinking.
>>46999640
The Mont'Ka Decurion bonus is pretty meh compared to most decurion bonuses. And honestly, if your friend is bringing a Flyrant at 750 points, then he kinda forfeits any right to complain about mediocre shit. You not bringing Riptides is already bringing a friendly list, and decurions are not "That Guy" by default.
>>46999698
>"mum's"
A British fanny, obvs'.
>>46999648
Potentially really really long, but actually not that much since after the Heresy they didn't really do much.Also I would expect a good number of them to have names like "Destroyer of Prospero", "Bane of the Thousand Son" or "Magnus-fucker"
>>46999698
What an american fanny, beyond fat and stinking of cheap black meat?
>>46999648
I can't wait for FW to give them rules
>>46999756
An arse.
>>46999756
wut
why the fuck dont space marines use chimeras?
rhinos suck nigger dick
>>46999704
Alright cool, I'll see about starting to build towards it then as points increase. It gives me a nice excuse to get more hammerheads too and pretend to be an armored cadre. Basically rules are every three weeks we add 250 points to our existing lists and may drop one unit selection to free up some points or if we just didn't like the unit after using it. Units may be moved around in the force org if you can and want to when making an updated list.
>>46999759
And I hope they aren't just an army of GK Paladins
>>46999802
Aren't Rhinos better in the fluff?
>>46999790
I mean, i think it was pretty self explanatory: i was asking exactly what part of the human body an 'american' Fanny referred to. Then i implied all American women are fat and stick of black cock
Try to keep up
>>46999802
Better side armor for the mobile warfare? Standardized hulls and STCs? Interchangeable parts between different SM vehicles?Dirt cheap points cost?
>>46999811
>Aren't Rhinos better in the fluff?
nope. the only reason why space marines even use them in the fluff is because they are able to sctrachbuild them themselves out of random shit they find.
>>46999714
Tzeentch confirms potential names.
>>46999802
Because the rhino fits in aircraft allowing fast deployment from orbit, while the chimera needs mass landers so is slower to get onto the surface all set up and ready to go. Or something like that.
>>46999858
>Rhino's have to have shit armor and no guns so that they can fit in Thunderhawks
>the same transport that they use for Land Raiders
Rhinos being such cheap shit will never not be retarded. They should be more durable, fast, or an assault transport.
>>46999958
Rhinos fit in the main bay of regular Thunderhawks, dawg.
>but FW
FW's thunderhawk is actually off-scale. The Rhino took up 10 slots, just like the dreadnought.
>>46999958
Are you an idiot? Thunderhawks can't transport Land Raider. Thunderhawks transportes (pic related) can, but they can also take double the amount of Rhino chassis vehicles.
Protip: a chimera isn't so valuable you need a dedicated thunderhawk transporter.
>>47000054
>Protip: a chimera isn't so valuable you need a dedicated thunderhawk transporter.
and yet the rhino is? kek
>>47000033
the rhino itself is off scale, you cant even fit like 5 space marines in the actual model
>>46999958
It can carry two Rhinos or one Land Raider.
Honestly, it's not really about 'good'. The Rhino is an ancient and venerated design, so the Marines get holy APC's. There may also be a practicality issue, that you'd be hard pressed to fit TEN Marines in a Chimera.
>>47000073
>and yet the rhino is? kek
A rhino can be put everywhere, including a regolar Thunderhawk that is also doing other things, or a Transporter that can carry multiple of them.
A chimera would need a dedicated Thunderhawk just to transport it. also the fact that isn't standardized with other marine vehicles means that you must use a modified transporter, that can't be used to also transport land raider or predators.
Also the chimera is a shit vehicle.
>>46999958
>Rhinos being such cheap shit will never not be retarded. They should be more durable, fast, or an assault transport.
Oh, I'm sorry your codex item isnt instantly better then something out of the "lowly" guardsmen book
>>47000073
>the rhino itself is off scale, you cant even fit like 5 space marines in the actual model
Right, but separate from the infantry the vehicles usually have some kind of consistent scale with one another.
THawks used to be able to carry an APC in them. Then FW realized making a model large enough to physically fit a rhino in the main bay would have been ridiculously expensive.
>>47000105
>Also the chimera is a shit vehicle.
and yet the rhino is worse.
>>47000074
youd be hard pressed to fit 5 space marines in the rhino
literally the only fluff reason they even use rhinos is because they are cheap shit they can build themselves out of scrap
>>47000127
Maybe the difference between the two is that the rhino transports tough models to their destination while chimeras protect weak models to their destination.
>>47000108
Non marine player here, and the Rhino has always seemed out of place to me. It's cheap and functional, but that's... Not how marines do things anywhere else.
That said, one of the main reasons I'm uninterested in playing Marines is that fielding entire armies of them on a regular basis... Doesn't fit the fluff at all.
>>47000127
>and yet the rhino is worse.
The rhino is cheaper, which means is better. It's role its just to transport marines. The chimera pay out of its ass for a useless turret, a shitty heavy bolter, a lower armour value and less access points.
>>47000161
Rhinos are cheap, disposable, run on anything burnable, easily repaired and the lack of armour is irrelevant because the guys inside have more armour than it does.
>>47000148
then why have the land raider, if they dont give a shit? its retarded. rhinos are fucking stupid, space marines shouldnt be rolling around in some piece of shit they scratchbuild themselves like orks just because they can.
generic guardsmen number 12423897389489billion has a better mechanized infantry vehicle than the fucking space marines, that shit is dumb.
>>47000161
space marine armor has always been on the cheap and functional side - space marine vehicles will typically carry 'just enough' guns to get the job done for their price point.
two good comparisons are the vindicator versus the leman russ demolisher - a demolisher is slow, and can carry up to five guns (showing that the Guard cares mostly about protection and firepower), whereas the vindicator is low-profile, carries a single cannon in a fixed forward mount, and generally lacks the frills of the Imperial Guard vehicle (showing the space marines want something low-drag and simplistic to support their troops).
both do the same thing, but the two design philosophies of each faction are emphasised in both tanks very well.
nevermind the imperial guard gets a better vindicator in the thunderer siege tank, just forget that
>>47000242
>nevermind the imperial guard gets a better vindicator in the thunderer siege tank, just forget that
That's just FW being silly.
>>47000200
And they also don't have any webbing and wear armour so bulky they probably can't take their own helmet off.
Lots of shit doesn't make sense; it's 40k.
>>47000105
Why are you surprised that a space marine flyer can transport space marine transports? While it isn't built to transport chimeras?
>>47000196
This
It makes sense that there wouldn't be some kind of "fancy" or "relic" vehicle. APCs just need to carry marines, move marines, and be easily built/repaired.
Otherwise you get the Bradley
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
>>47000307
What's interesting to note is the rhino has four separate engines, and can technically still run without any of them functional.
It's pretty amazing at just carting people from point A to point B, despite its weaknesses on the tabletop.
>>47000287
>And they also don't have any webbing
dont need it because they use maglocks
>and wear armour so bulky they probably can't take their own helmet off.
dont need to take their helmets off
neither one is a deliberate strategic choice to use ork logic when it comes to vehicle usage.
>>47000268
true, but god damn the thunderer is a good ass vehicle
one hard, pipe hittin nigga of a tank
>>47000307
Good god that thing is exactly a las-plas razorback.
>>46999813
>stick of black cock
>stick
Can't even into racism.
>>47000449
>get butt flustered over an obvious typeo, from a little giggle i was havin'
Cant handle the bantz m8, i get it.
>>47000307
Sweet Jesus, what kind of nightmare world are we living in where the Imperium of man are building more efficient troop transports than the US goverment
>>47000500
>6 man troop transport with a high profile, two heavy guns on the top and shit armour
It's a Razorback, anon.
>>47000500
The Bradley is decent, its just an aged cold war era design and that shows, but its still good enough for its role. Besides, Strikers are a thing now.
>>47000500
well troop transports arent that important when you are xenociding abhuman savages with dronestrikes.
>>47000307
>Original specs dictate a 20mm cannon
>guy points to a .50 cal on the blueprint
Must...not...
>but where did the turret come from
>I mean its totally reasonable to fit a 20mm chaingun on a PINTLE MOUNT rite
...urge...to /k/...rising...
>THE TURRETS FOR HEIGHT ELEVATION SO WE CAN SEE FAR, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GODDAMN 250 LB BUSHMASTER CANNON WE PUT IN THERE
>ALSO THE TOW RACK IS AN ADDON AND TOTALLY NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL DESIGN SO THIS VEHICLE THAT'S HALF THE WEIGHT OF A TANK CAN FIGHT AGAINST THEM WITHOUT WEIGHING DOWN ITS PASSENGERS WITH MAN PORTABLE AT WEAPONS
NOPE. NOPE, TOO MUCH. What is this idiocy.
>>47000532
>>46999958
Sort of makes sense that Space Marines would get the shittiest transport. I mean the guys inside are wearing tank armor.
All you really need the transport for is a little extra speed, it could be made out of cardboard.
>>47000332
That's neat, I didn't actually know that but it makes sense given the design function of APCs.
My limited knowledge of SM ground vehicles (Skitarii/Mech player)
>Rhino: APC
>Razorback: APC but throw out a couple dudes for a gun
>Vindicator: APC w/direct fire artillery but no dudes
>Predator: APC but tank instead with no dudes
>the other "Rhino" variants: APC artillery/AA/whatever but no dudes
>>47000443
>>47000500
>>47000532
It's funny how early Ad-Mech just happened to "discover" new STCs featuring the Rhino chassis
"You sure they won't realize we just slapped a gun on a Rhino?"
"We're dealing with genetically modified hastily indoctrinated heathen barbarians, criminals, and kidnapped children..."
"Good point Magos."
>>47000661
its really just because GW was too lazy to make new vehicle kits so they just decided to add an extra sprue and repackage it.
like what they are doing right now with flyers.
>>47000661
What else can be said, the chassis is flexible as fuck
If it ain't broke and all that
>>47000483
>bantz
You couldn't bantz your way out of a wet paper bag m8.
I was contemplating my next model purchase as either a dakkajet kit (I like the model, like Deff Skwadron, etc), or the new mek gun kit (I like the model, like the rules, fits with the mek theme of my Death Skulls army). And then GW comes out and glues those two models together for me right as I got a little bit of pocket money. I want that model. I just hope the Tellyport Mega-Blasta has a longer range than the regular one. I think it would make a decent MC/ GC hunter.
>>47000686
Space marines sticking to the rhino chassis makes some sense, though. Lets the battle tanks and field artillery keep pace with the APCs.
>>47000721
you mean it lets the battle tanks be lightly armored trash
>>47000686
>>47000661
>>47000687
Well this all has real world precedent. The M113 has had just about everything strapped onto it, so have most APC/IFV chassis.
I certainly don't think it has much to do with "GW being lazy".
>>47000687
I love how the Blood Angels refused to give the Mechanicus the STC for the Baal variant Predator, so the tech priests -made a better version from scratch out of spite-.
>>47000743
>I certainly don't think it has much to do with "GW being lazy".
>the only battle tank the astartes have, from GW, is based on the shitty rhino chassis with an extra sprue
>this isnt gw being lazy
yeah... nah
>>47000735
predators are legit, and also sexy as fuck
![540px-IG5EChimeraArmouredTransport[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hVrtCQS.jpg "540px-IG5EChimeraArmouredTransport[1].jpg")
>>47000661
You're close. The rhino's an APC, the Razorback's an AFV (armored fighting vehicle, referring to an APC that can also deliver fire support once its troops are deployed), the vindicator's an assault gun (direct-fire self-propelled gun used for breakthrough actions) and the other variants are also based on real-world designs. The same chassis being used for all of these is also a thing in many armies. The Imperium does the same thing with the Chimera.
The following vehicles are ALL built on the Chimera chassis:
>manticore
>deathstrike
>wyvern
>hydra
>basilisk
>medusa
>salamander
>trojan
>hellhound and its variants
>Samaritan (unarmed, medivac-style chimera; doesn't have any rules but appears in fluff)
In short, it's not so much because AdMech is lazy, but more because they're using thirty-nine-thousand-year-old precendent...and not bothering to...okay yeah, they're lazy. But not in THAT way.
Real life military forces use the same hull all the time. Look at all the variants of the LAV/Stryker. It simplifies logistics and means everything goes the same speed.
Also the Guard have better tanks because that is what they are for. Compare the M8 light tank to the M1 Abrams, one is much lighter because it has to support airborne troops.
>Every Saturday go down to my local store
>Everyone is too busy buying and putting together whatever just came out
>Every week everyone buys a new army, hastily puts it together then fields it unpainted
As the new rogue knight box came out literally everyone but me and one other person has bought knight armies down or is buying up the new AoS Ouurks. I'm internally debating if this is worse than the week wulfen came out and everyone just fielded unbound armies of nothing but wulfen.
How is your day going /tg/?
>>47000772
That breakdown makes me wonder what kind of METAL BAWKS the rumored Skit-Mech codex is going to get?
>>47000746
>a better version
Which?
>>47000797
How do they all have the time and money to do this every weekend?
>>47000765
That's kinda how real tanks get made. The rhino chassis is really fucking good, so they just keep using it.
>>47000768
>predators are legit
kek predators are unfieldable, 13/11/10 for a tank with shitty firepower, and with lascannons end up costing like 140 points, for whats essentially 3 lascannon shots on a weakly armor vehicle.
the only marine vehicle that isnt shit is the drop pod
>>47000765
But why do Space Marines, "marines" being the operative word, need a big Leman Russ style MBT? Their whole job is jumping in, getting shit done, and getting out again.
They're a scalpel, not a mallet. In theory at least.
>>47000831
All my possible appendexes are crossed that they would get some wonky looking walking transport.
But in few months theyll get armored trains. CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE TECH TRAIN!
>>47000837
The Infernus
>>47000765
So by your logic modern real world militaries are lazy because they use the same hull for different jobs?
>>47000867
>But why do Space Marines, "marines" being the operative word, need a big Leman Russ style MBT?
well considering their fellblade chassis is better than the baneblade chassis, it wouldnt be out of character.
>Their whole job is jumping in, getting shit done, and getting out again.
and sometimes that invovles blitzkrieging faggots with fellblades. its pretty retarded that the space marines dont have a MBT considering all they have now is a horribly lightly armored and equipped 'tank' and a massive superheavy
>>47000772
>Medusa
The medusa used to be built on the russ chasis in the older editions
>>47000886
>So by your logic modern real world militaries are lazy because they use the same hull for different jobs?
most of the time yes, because it is done to save cost so you end up with shit like the bradley.
>>47000850
Sometimes it takes them a week to build everything so it doesn't 'hit' until next week. sometimes they spend all morning buildings things and all afternoon playing.
I dont know where they get so much money but all of the new £24 AoS Oruuk WyrdNob models have sold out already.
>>47000866
I'm happy I'm not you. Have fun keeping up with your meta. I'll just be here painting my cool models.
So guys.
I was thinking of figuring out a way to make custom characters. Like, set a baseline model, and then add points for each "upgrade", from stats, weapon and special rules.
The idea is to use it for a Last Stand-ish game, where a group of people use a single character to defeat waves of enemies, but it would honestly just be nice to have a way to create custom characters to begin with.
How would you go about doing this? Start from scratch, build it up, compare it to existing characters and special characters, and then tweak from there, or would you compare existing characters, and figure out how they were priced originally?
[spoilers]I know GW doesn't actually "calculate" point costs, but that just makes me want to figure out a way to do it even more.[/spoilers]
Also, the goal was to make them cost approximately 10-20% more than the originals, just so it would be "reasonable" to include them in a normal game.
>>47000905
Yeah, SOMETIMES they need a Fellblade. Sometimes they need a bloke in a giant silver robot suit to knock seven shades of shit out of a Daemon Prince. Doesn't mean they need to carry that stuff as standard.
>>47000905
The predator's more like a tank destroyer than a real tank anyway
honestly the closest they have to a proper Main battle tank is the God-hammer Pattern Land Raider, which is an all-round shit vehicle to pick for the TT
>>47000938
It's spoiler not spoilers
>>47000905
>well considering their fellblade chassis
fellblades are great crusade shit, made when marines operated under very different standards
>>47000952
>when shit gets real they use fuck massive tanks
>just because they dont do this literally 24/7 means they dont deserve a MBT
why does guard get a MBT when they only need them sometimes?
>>47000916
The Bradley was made from scratch, they didn't just put a turret on an M113.
And 'saving cost' in the logistical sense with shared hulls is not only acceptable, its vital. Logistics in wartime and fitting inside the defence budget in peacetime is important.
It does not matter what hull an ATGM carrier, a support gun or a command vehicle is on as long as it does the job. So using the same one for as many roles as possible is a good idea.
>>47000966
RIP autocorrect.
Didn't even notice. Fuck me.
>>47000989
>So using the same one for as many roles as possible is a good idea.
not when your MBT has the same chassis as piece of shit apc.
>>47000866
>3 lascannon shots for 140pts
that's pretty standard for vehicles. So this feels more like general vehicle complaining than SM being particularly bad.
>>46998549
Pls jesus don't play with my fragile heart and allow anon to be telling the truth
>>47001013
>that's pretty standard for vehicles
13/11/10 isnt
>>47001001
Space Muffins don't really have a MBT.
The Russ is pretty much the only MBT that the Imperium has.
>>47001039
>letting people shoot your flank
get good
The tech-heresy evident in this thread is incredulous.
Thread cannot be salvaged.
Prepare for exterminatus in 9-12 working years
>>47001001
You don't understand what marines are for or how they operate do you?
And the APC does its job, only idiots expect every vehicle to have the armour of a heavy tank. The Predator is easy to transport to the surface, is fast and shares many parts with the Rhino, this is more important for Marine warfare than having a big, tough but slow tank.
>>47001001
>Predator
>MBT
Anon, an autocannon doesn't make you an MBT. At best it's a Light Tank. At worst it's an AFV that forgot it's supposed to also carry troops.
>>47001059
>git gud its not my fault my riptide has a jumppack and statistically takes like 200 lascannon shots to kill
k
like i said before, the only good vehicle the astartes even have is the drop pod
>>47000984
But they need them far more, plus they don't spend their time hurriedly redeploying from theatre to theatre.
Fluff wise, they don't need them, tabletop wise, they don't need them. I'm struggling to see what your problem is?
>>47001001
ITS NOT A MBT THICKO.
>>47001077
>autocannon doesn't make you an MBT
tell that to the sicaran
>>47001077
thats my point
>>47001070
then why do they use fellblades
>>47001094
no shit dumbass thats my point
>>47001091
>it's not my fault that I'm bad and also mad
Predator is 2legit2quit, and you're a scrub.
>>47001112
predator is a shit and you are retarded
>>47000867
Because that's a Space Wolves thing
>>47000910
But thats no Medusa, thats Bombard.
>>47001107
And air deployed forces don't usually use MBT's, why do you not get this? The land raider is the closest thing and that is also a heavy transport.
Many chapters don't even have a Fellblade, they are relic vehicles from an older style of warfare that are kept in case of emergencies. Even IF they used one it would not be in the context of how most chapters operate most of the time.
>>47001039
well the other examples I'm thinking of are 12/12/10, 11/11/10, and 11/11/10 with quantum shielding.
So, yes it kinda is.
>>47001091
>Everyone has riptides
G
I
T
G
U
D
>>47001091
so, this is a vehicle vs OP MC complaint. Got it.
>>47001128
Predators are dark-age technology, and therefore immediately not shit.
Get good or die crying.
>>47001168
>astra miltarium fags are so butthurt at space marines that they pretend that the predator is even fieldable
kek
>>47001107
>no shit dumbass thats my point
Then what is your point? They don't need an MBT, they don't have an MBT. Case closed. Shows over.
>>47001200
>They don't need an MBT
but they do, clearly. since even iron hands are forced to run bikers as the bulk of their force nowadays.
>>47001194
>being mentally challenged
>>47001216
and this has nothing to do with relentless grav platforms at all, and they'd totally take a Russ if they could.
>>47001200
This is probably that moron on /k/ who thinks the USA needs to bring back gliders so they can deploy M1 Abrams alongside airborne infantry.
And says any vehicle with less armour than an MBT is pointless.
>>47001182
I don't even understand why anyone would bother with predators when all the best stuff is on infantry.
Grav guns, librarians, melee, chapter tactics and drop pods are things you are missing out on with predators, at least dreadnoughts you get chapter tactics and drop pods.
>>47001216
Maybe
MAYBE
You could run it like it is in the fluff where you ally in guard with Space Marines. It's almost like SpaceMarines are suposed to be an elite strike force and doesn't require them to fill every roll? Even chapters like Iron Warriors who do require heavy vehicles use Guardsmen vehicles rather then bitch about how there is no equivalent.
>Buy second Dakka Jet because it is our only reliable anti-infantry fire at TL BS3
>Gets nerfed back to BS2
Fuck. You.
>>47001242
Well, I don't know about that specific moron, but I'm done being perplexed by this idiot's tedious nonsense.
>>46999813
/pol/ go & stay go
>>47001278
>Orks think they're a shooting race!
>BS2
>>47001236
well the space marine MBT would have grav, obviously.
>>47001277
>IH
>allying with guard plebs whom they summarily exterminate whenever they are around them for longer than 2 seconds
yeah... about the fluff..
>iron warriors
>chapter
kek
>>47001257
holy shit imagine if predators got good grav options and the chaos one didn't. The butthurt would be palpable.
>>47001277
>Even chapters like Iron Warriors who do require heavy vehicles use Guardsmen vehicles rather then bitch about how there is no equivalent.
Yeah but if you ally them in then they're piloted by guardsmen, not space marines.
>>46998414
>Small blast gets hot cause ORKS :^)
Crap.
>1 shot AP 1
Crap.
>Single save
Crap.
Into the trash it goes along with Codex 5+
>>47001310
not sure if joking, trolling, or stupid.
Okay so here's a question:
How many marines do the Ultramarines actually have at full strength, just to take a well-documented example?
It sure as fuck isn't 1000, the ten companies without command or support staff fully account for those 1000 men.
>>47001321
>predator anal destroyer
>TL grav-cannon
>sponson grav-cannons
>Fast
>>47001321
>preditor with 2 grav-cannons and a TL grav-cannon on top
It would still be worse than infantry options due to only being able to fire one without snap-shots if it moved but the idea of loyalists getting another 'inferior' bit of kit while the CSM codex rots in gutter would make great drama.
>>47001354
>Small blast gets hot cause ORKS :^)
>Crap
Hey man, S8 plasma cannons are one of the few gun weapons in the codex.
>>47001381
read the fluff you fucktard
>>47001385
They've never actually documented how many marines will be in the command staff, honor guard, librarium, reclusiam, apothecarion and armory.
But it would be a lot. Ignoring the vehicle crew the display at warhammer world has like twelve or thirteen hundred smurfs on it, and with the amount of vehicles present it could easily jump to fourteen or fifteen hundred once you account for the crew.
Are scions viable?
And why/why not?
Cause s3ap3 sounds pretty good but t3 and a 4+ makes them sound like glass cannons
>>47001354
Well it only overheats every 36 shots so it almost doesnt matter.
>>47001321
>>47001388
I would still play it with all lascannonBecause not even all the loyalists have access to grav
>>46998904
Not to be a dick, or that guy but I'd love to join the league you're in if I could with my IG slow grow list just to see how you would deal.
>>47001429
I have, the IH don't go out of their way to kill IG, they just don't allow for how frail they are and push them till they die
Which doesn't perclude allies.
'obviously' the tank would have grav?
>>47001419
>gun weapons
*GOOD weapons, along with assault 1 rocket launchers and tracktor kannons.
>>47001419
Kustom Mek Weapons should be melta
>>47001477
>'obviously' the tank would have grav?
obviously. everything is grav now.
>I have, the IH don't go out of their way to kill IG
i guess you dont count turning them into servoskulls for sport as killing..
>Bought mine today. When are they supposed to release it anyway?
>On Attack patterns:
>2 planes: one gets +1bs (against appropriate target) and +1 to jink save.
>3 planes:
>* Flat out and Shoot/bomb (appropriate target) at full bs
>* Tank hunter vs appropriate target / Reroll to pen rolls with bombs
>* Shooting/Bombs Ignore cover vs appropriate target
>4 planes:
>* one gets +1bs (against appropriate target) and +1 to jink save. + all get Tank hunter vs appropriate target / Reroll to pen rolls with bombs and Shooting/Bombs Ignore cover vs appropriate target
>* 4++, IWND, Interceptor (on all)
>* Forgot what this one does.
>All planes in the attack pattern must be from same formation or attack wing.
>Attack wing: 2-4 planes (all same). Flyers can now be bought in units of 1-4 per slot, but they only count as attack wing if they are 2+. Attack wings may use Attack patterns. One flyer gets "Wing leader", wich is a free "Fighter ace" equivalent. Fighter ace, as we know it, is not in the book, instead, it's a campaign bonus. (There are 3 bonuses to randomize from on the wing leader table. The campaign fighter ace has 6, and you can earn all 6 by becoming a Top Gun (Kill 30 flyers during a campaign without dying)).
>NOTE: Flyers from same attack wing do not follow rules for squadrons, or count as a single unit, nor do they need to be in coherency. (unless they want to benefit from attack patterns.)
>The flyer detachment consists 1-3 attack wings. All from same codex/faction. (Formations count as attack wings).
>So now, you can have a pair of any flyer as a separate detachment!
>>47001491
>24" S8 ap2 assault 1, gets hot, melta for 15 points
That actually may be good enough to bother putting on a BS2 Ork.
>>47001473
Slow grow? I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that, is it like a bunch of guardsmen advancing behind vehicles?
>>47001528
Exactly, the Kustom Slugga and Kustom gun is actually worth considering
>>47001557
Give nobs the ability to buy it as a 1/3 chance to crack open a transport for the boys and it's solid.
>>47001525
>>So now, you can have a pair of any flyer as a separate detachment!
Well, at least one good thing came of this then: Mechanicus can add two of any imperial flyer as a detachment.
>>47001614
Yeah. Now everyone can add 2x stormhawks for 260pts and call it a day. Stormhawks are retardly cheap for the firepower they dish out god damn.
>>47001614
Would two Stormtalons full of Electropriests make Electropriests good?
>>47001665
>Agility 3
>Pursuit 3.
Razorwings have 5 in both.
>3fast5you!
>>47001668
Would any flying assault transport make repentia great again?
>>47001525
They really need to release an Errata saying "all vehicles may be taken in groups of 1-3". It's clear everyone's going to get that, but a load of armies have to wait for their codex updates to roll around before they can take multiple vehicles per slot.
>>47001702
It's pretty easy to ally in land raiders or stormravens.
What Repenetrators need is a -cheap- assault vehicle.
>>47001685
What are the updated Ork plane stats, are they at least decent to make up for their 10/10/10 anti infantry only loadouts
>>47001702
A unit of repentia coming out from a StormwolfThey're penitent because of the extreme dicking they received from the SW
>>47001711
Yeah, but there's also the bonus for taking three to take into account. Every 1-3 marine vehicle gets something nifty for it.
>Mfw 9 Vindicator list spamming apoc blasts
>>47001750
>mfw that list would still be gutted by tau
>>47001711
>can finally take 9 Deff Dreads in a game
>can finally fit 3 BWs in one slot
>can finally take 9 Looted Wagon "armored krumpany"
So I'm an absolute masochist I want to do do a Sisters of Battle army.
What are my options, apart from second hand ebay models and Mongolian man, regarding Immolators?
Is there any decent third party kit I can add to a Rhino? (Of which I already have two, and they're much cheaper second hand than Immolators seem to be from what I can see)
