>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/
>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.
>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. With the new edition, though, chances are more games will crop up.
Resources for Third Edition
>Final 3E Core Release
https://mega.nz/#!ctgxyJaC!ygkrLnFsrnBJzIUZY-dJsMfyFrhFQgDsQuuo52fcW0I
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q51qw8skdw1rg15/Exalted_3e_Core.pdf
>3E Backer Core (Old)
https://mega.nz/#!E1dRBBIa!ZbQG4IasYCJRli2bhgE2MOdWeFAeV3N1rqL9kAIGbNE
>Frequently updated Character Sheet with Formulas and Autofill https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pfjmZKzcUqAX9mB58IAEUIFkZr8rq4CvdRRM4kzwwgU/edit?usp=sharing
>General Homebrew dumping folder: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByD2BL6J89NiQzdCWWFaY0c5Mkk&usp=sharing
>Collection of old 3e Materials, including comics and fiction anthologies https://www.mediafire.com/folder/t2arqtqtyyt28/Exalted_3Leak
>Charm Trees:
>Solar Charms: https://imgur.com/a/q6Vbc
>Martial Arts: https://imgur.com/a/mnQDe
>Evocations: https://imgur.com/a/TYKE4
Resources for 2.5 Edition:
>All books with embedded errata notes, as well as some extras: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted
>Chargen software: http://anathema.github.io/
>Anathema homebrew charm files: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/pka3nz3vqbqda/Anathema_Files
>MA form weapon guide: http://www.brilliantdisaster.net/dif/ExaltedMA.html
>http://www.mediafire.com/view/ua7tanepy2jfkdp/Exalted_2nd_Ed_-_Return_of_the_Scarlet_Empress.pdf
Resources for 1e:
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9vp0e9id3by6m/Exalted_1e
Solar XP Edition.
>>46984042
That's a bit of a specific topic.
How much do people actually earn per session? On average; I know the book has its numbers but I want to hear what people are actually getting.
>>46984241
We were talking a lot about Martial Arts and Sorcery last thread, plus we rarely stay on edition topics anyway.
>>46984296
>Sorcery
how do you handle SMote generation
How do you fluff/do/write smote generation?
>>46984528
My Twilight learned sorcery from lessons encoded into his anima by a First Age incarnation.
His SMote generation is akin to a DBZ power up, since casting spells always flares his anima
>>46984241
>How much do people actually earn per session?
My lot are doing really really well on Solar XP. I don't think there's been a single session where every one of them didn't earn at least 2.
I've been pooling them and paying out an equal share to all players at a threshold, which has gone down pretty well too.
>>46984042
You know. Is there a reason for Craft being the way it is? Because the way I've seen things, there's a certain level of abstraction to stuff. There's really no need for this weird system, because:
i) Normal shit is trivial for an Exalted-tier craftsman to make.
ii) Artifact-tier stuff is always going to be subject to the plot anyway, and you're going to need a large amount of magical materials which you likely will not have.
iii) I don't understand the points system at all.
Also, it's weird that the Twilight Caste still has their 2E barrier with no mention of wizard-vision. What's with that strange teleportation power?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6--w8e8zIcM
Anything the Realm does in a shellnut.
>>46984241
5xp and 4 Solar xp. I hate experience discrepancies and with Exalted I've noticed parties tend to fragment more due to hyperspecialization. Having some of their XP contingent upon them doing something specific when that specific thing might just not come up rubs me the wrong way.
Occasionally I'll have double XP sessions if something particularly awesome went down or we played a really long time.
>>46984241
We play online, so we had a lot of sessions with nothing significant happening so after a while we dropped to 3xp normal and 2xp solar per session.
>>46984528
Wrote his shaping ritual as a contract passed with the old Shunfei, senile lesser fire elemental dragon imprisoned under the city of Pasaro in the blessed isles. Shunfei's fire is long dead, but his smoke is still here, and he is patient.
Every time I shape sorcery, my character is covered in odorous smoke.
>>46985347
>my character is covered in odorous smoke.
OH! AH! Ooooohhh...that's rather nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr4knvNNgtU
If character sheet anon's here, I finished up the list of differences between backer preview pdf and the final release.
Also updated the charmlist and ran it through a spell check to catch some more typos.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pki3s-pBNmtBSOOWjih6MYBpu7au8olK_l2h48PziFI/edit#gid=965052309
>>46984042
>>46984241
I am truly the worst. As >>46985105
stated, I hate discrepancies between XP and sometimes I can't fully give the players a chance to get both bonuses, at least not all of them. So I tend to just make a pot of solar XP. If one person does something it gets added to the pot. Pot can go up to 8SXP in a session. After session is done everyone gets the full total in the pot. I alsotend to give 10 regular xp a round because i'm a masochist and I like rapid power creep. Sometimes I still give double XP sessions too.
>>46984241
I award between 3 and 5 pretty much every session. But my group pools awards and then divides them evenly.
>>46985854
>Heaven-Drawing Discipline
>An Exalt with this Charm can reduce the time it takes to produce work from weeks to days, and from days to hours.
>An Exalt with this Charm can reduce the time it takes to produce work from years to weeks, and from months to hours.
Seems like Holden and Morke changed their mind about how long it takes to write a book.
>>46984042
>Essence 2 50 experience points
>Essence 3 125 experience points
>Essence 4 200 experience points
>Essence 5 300 experience points
>You gain 5 XP per session.
>It takes 10 sessions worth of XP before you can reach Essence 2.
>It takes two more, for a total of 12, before you can afford your first Essence 2 charm.
>It takes one more, for a total of 13, before you can actually use that charm in play.
>That's 25/27/28 sessions for Essence 3 content.
>That's 40/42/43 sessions for Essence 4 content.
>That's 60/62/63 sessions for Essence 5 content.
How many sessions did the devs think your typical game of Exalted lasts for? Wouldn't their time have been better spent on less Essence 4-5 content and more Essence 1-2 content?
>>46985000
Magical materials are in no way mandatory for artifact creation in 3e. They certainly help, but you can make iron daiklaves for murdering Fair Folk, a spear from the tusk of a defeated behemoth, or whatever else. The only thing affected will be what type of Evocations you get and the type of people that are limited in unlocking them.
>>46986135
Maybe way back when, in theory.
But all the artifact examples are MM and the book only lists evocation themes for the MMs
>>46986097
By the time you reach each essence level you can afford this many charms:
>Essence 1 15 charms
>Essence 2 21 charms
>Essence 3 35.6 charms
>Essence 4 45 charms
>Essence 5 57.5 charms
>>46986051
What's interesting is that it goes by 2-3 steps now.
>>46986163
you don't need to have evocations to be an artefact
>>46986182
All artifacts 3 dot+ are capable of evocations though
>>46986198
Except for the utility ones, that expressly don't.
>>46986179
They fantasized about having Speed the Wheels, Mind-Scribing Method, and Heaven-Drawing Discipline themselves.
>>46986163
Cite me anywhere that says artifacts actually require one of the magical materials.
The lack of a premade non-MM artifact isn't a citation.
>>46986198
just because they can doesn't mean they must
>>46986097
What do you mean? It's not like there is all that much Essence 4-5 content in the book.
>>46986198
So you're saying that an Artifact 2 Iron Daiklave would have the mathematical bonuses of a daiklave, the ability to fuck up Fair Folk, and I wouldn't even have to waste my time fucking around with annoying-ass Evocations?
I'm fucking sold.
>>46986265
Daiklaies must be 3 dot though
>>46986097
Guy with reduced xp gain here: We're 30xp away from Essence 4.
>>46986229
who doesn't fantasize about having Solar charms, really? Admit it anon, you've done it yourself too
>>46986097
My game is almost to Essence 5. We've been playing for about a year with weekly sessions, we did miss a few though.
>>46986273
>>46986342
I find that absolutely astounding. The longest game I've ever had in any system after over a decade of gaming is 25 sessions before changing schedules or interests caused a game to end.
>>46986409
Playing online because your friends are chads is torture. Every other game goes cold before the first session because half the players didn't even turn in their sheets.
>>46986265
>mathematical bonuses of a daiklave
It's going to be absurdly heavy because it won't have the magical properties of attuned orichalcum, plus it won't be nearly as sharp or indestructible.
>I wouldn't even have to waste my time fucking around with annoying-ass Evocations?
If you don't want them, don't bother with them.
Why don't you just get a greatsword for free, anon?
>>46986472
>tfw extremely long running, very exciting online game with top ST
>tfw not a single player has dropped out or just quit
What kind of unreliable shit-heads do you recruit for your games that don't even bother making a sheet?
>>46986801
>It's going to be absurdly heavy because it won't have the magical properties of attuned orichalcum, plus it won't be nearly as sharp or indestructible.
There have always been non-MM artifacts, and they all get the weight reduction and indestructibility of other artifacts. In 2e, they just didn't get the extra magical material bonus. In 3e, by that dude's logic, they just wouldn't get Evocations.
>If you don't want them, don't bother with them.
If I don't want even a single Evocation, I'd rather save a merit point by getting a weapon that doesn't have any.
>Why don't you just get a greatsword for free, anon?
For the mathematical bonuses of a daiklave.
>>46986805
>What kind of unreliable shit-heads do you recruit for your games that don't even bother making a sheet?
Not that guy, but literally anyone you can find? Most people don't know any significant number of people who are both reliable, and have free time, and are interested in tabletop games. You usually have to settle for 2/3, or even 1/3.
>>46986870
huh, that's pretty interesting numbers. Maybe it's because I don't find my games via a Mongolian Cartoon website. Where did you find your games?
>>46986341
That's an interesting question, which single charm would you guys pick to have in real life?
It doesn't include prerequisites and doesn't give you ability dots.
I'd like Excellent Emissary's Tongue to learn new languages, Swift Sage's Eye to read every shitty thread on /tg/, God-King's Shrike would be fun to troll with, Uncanny Shroud Defense to save my life, Ephemeral Induction Technique to create a spirit slave would be kickass, Celestial Bliss Trick to please them, Immunity to Everything Technique because getting sick sucks, Mastery of Small Manners to not spaghetti, or maybe Invisible Statue Spirit for classic yet stationary invisibility.
I'm not sure actually.
>>46986409
The game I'm in has lost a number of its players, and one can't attend every session since she had a kid. For a few sessions, it's been me and the psycho Dawn
>>46986913
>Where did you find your games?
My real life list of friends. Maybe I should start searching for people on Vietnamese Cave Painting websites instead.
>>46986926
Terrestrial Circle Sorcery.
Even assuming I don't gain the ability to learn additional spells, that still nets me Summon Elemental (I don't have enough hubris to assume that real life me can safely bind demons), a shaping ritual with attendant merits, and the ability to do Workings.
>>46986979
I'm hesitant to go sorcery because I don't think I even have 2 dots of Int and 2 dots of Occult, Elementals are the safe way to go through.
>>46987019
I'm confident I have at least 3 dots of Int and 1 of Occult, and having literal fucking sorcery would be a damn good reason to start diving into the deep, weird world of the occult.
>>46986913
People on /tg/ are usually pretty unreliable, but people on roll20 are literal freakshows.
>>46981082
>waifushit
Mine in my current game turned out to be Mara.
>Best Sorcery tutor.
>Best Martial Arts tutor.
>Most helpful social infiltrator.
>A very amiable yet impish demon. Good at hiding her intentions behind a veil of flirtatious levity (to Exalts) or obliging generosity (to mortals) until it's time to commit some atrocities and ruin people for keks. All fun and games, right? But...
>Dat enforced intimacy of love for learning Black Claw Style.
>My nominally good-natured and sociable character, an Eclipse and wealthy Guild Factor with a taste for the occult and arcane, acts on these feelings with a manic undercurrent of possessiveness that reveals itself at disturbingly increasing intervals.
>Catches her off guard since she likes to disclose the mental influence behind the Martial Art so she can watch those afflicted try to struggle arduously against it. Someone just outright riding the current is unexpected, but she can dig it. Just another form of degeneration, right?
>Once I finally gain Celestial Circle Sorcery and manage to bind her, dress her up as a maid because I'm a fucking weeaboo.
>Delve into the lore of Sorcery's origins,
>courtesy of the Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears, who has an idea where this shit is heading. Very supportive woman, she is.
>Find out it's probable the only person Mara had true, unconditional love for that wasn't just shallow affection and appreciation for their dire fate/gradual corruption was Brigid, or at least the Solar that was in her equivalent historical position, when she was a Deva.
>This relationship was part of how the knowledge of Sorcery was stolen from the Primordials. Mara got burned pretty damn bad. When The Dragon's Shadow was twisted into the The Ebon Dragon, that's when her current pernicious mentality regarding love was cemented.
>But she still loyally stayed by the somewhat remorseful Brigid's side voluntarily during the First Age until the Twilight's death.
(cont)
>>46987019
Occult is basically science in Creation. Elementals are as real and commonplace as animals, Gods are everywhere and their magic is reproduceable, and stunting is more built into the world than gravity.
Sorcery is easy to justify
>>46986926
Anointment of Miraculous Health scores pretty high for being no-questions-asked instant healing, although "once per scene" and only 1 level (presumably I have essence 1 for this) is a bit unfortunate.
Harmonious Presence Meditation is +3 dice on all social, more or less forever.
One of Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit or its upgrade Element Resisting Prana, depending on how this works, would open up a lot of options.
Various Thrown and Archery charms are basically "gimme olympic medal kthx".
Judge's Ear Technique might be tempting if not for the ocean of legal problems that would probably get involved in actually trying to use it.
But at the end of the day? One of the Unsurpassed (Sense) Discipline charms would probably win out.
>>46987157
>So my Eclipse discovers a letter by the Magnus discussing an encounter with a phantasm of Brigid, a pattern burnt into the shadow of existence, he discovered near the Underworld projection of a Manse she'd created long ago. You might know the letter, one from Ink Monkeys.
>This gives my Eclipse an idea.
>Experiment with the assimilation of foreign spiritual manifestations and inchoate essence patterns by a physical body.
>Come to a sorcerous breakthrough. Dis gonbi gud.
>Compel Mara to guide me to the site of the old Manse mentioned in the letter.
>Arrive at the equivalent coordinates in the Underworld. Discover a massive, domed mausoleum of ivory-white, ashen-gray, and obsidian-black.
>ST is gonna make me work for this shit.
>Call up mercenary-leader/swordswoman extraordinaire Dawn and martial artist spy/bodyguard Night.
>They've long seen past my Eclipse's guise of virtue and benevolence to the conniving, ignoble douche within, but there's mutual respect built up throughout the years and the pay is obscenely good.
>We conquer the Manse. They get to keep most of the artifacts and loot we find. Eclipse has little interest. He's here for a purpose.
>One of the deepest rooms is spatially impossible with the rest of the structure, an expanse with properties comparable to the Labyrinth (it may very well just outright be in the Labyrinth). Within the building is an open-air garden of glistening, darkly-hued roses and violets beneath an eclipse-ruled sky which should rightfully be a ceiling.
>That's where I found what the Magnus had, gazing upwards listlessly, stagnating.
>Drag Mara across the Underworld to the Manse. Tell her we're going to be doing something very special. A gift for her. The preparations have already been made.
>Present her with the last known vestiges of Brigid in all of existence. This shabby, tattered, barely-coherent specter of her power that was branded into reality.
>I'd been waiting for this moment. Pic related, Eclipse's face when.
>>46987199
>Complete the Working I'd been occupied with. So many fucking dice.
>Devour whole the umbral remnants of the only person Mara ever truly loved right in front of her.
>Mind hit with a nightmarish wave of fragmented memories, jagged shards of cosmic awareness, and an onslaught of anguished Whispers.
>Instant Limit Break.
>Suddenly able to respire necrotic essence. Anime Banner is swirling with traces of its acrid impurity.
>Now have black sclera. Have to hide it with Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise from then on.
>Permanently tainted own essence, probably corrupted my exaltation for incarnations to come.
>So worth it.
>Bring full suite of social charms to bear.
>Longass social scene where I basically just proceeded to mindfuck the poor demon using everything I'd learned about her throughout the game, as well as the enigmatic memories I'd been bombarded with after consuming Brigid's shade.
>Turns out 2nd Circles have insecurities and sore spots too.
>By the end of it, she's psychologically broken, weeping and smiling at the same time, and calling my Eclipse by Brigid in tandem with her typical byname for him.
>And that's how you train your waifu to be the most loyal, devoted, and dutiful pet she can be.
>Eclipse eventually comes to his senses. He's not even fully conscious of what happened.
>Mara does too, but not completely.
>She's regressed to her mentality as a Deva to some extent, how she lovingly acted around Brigid.
>Her true nature as the Shadow Lover bubbles up intermittently when appropriate, though seemingly more deranged than ever.
>She still confuses the name of my character with Brigid from time to time.
>A lovely relationship.
>Meet up with the Lover some time after. Pretty much instantly notices my contaminated essence. Even she wonders what the fuck happened.
>Daily reminder from her that all factors of the human experience are transient and not ultimately satisfying.
>Sporadic voices in head think that sounds legit.
Exalted is fun.
>>46987198
I was considering Element Resisting Prana, but I'd need a higher Resistance for it to be of use, certainly not 4 dots for fireproofing.
Can someone tell me how easy it is to figure out someone is not mundane? I'm confused by the transparency thing.
Does this mean that out of character, we always know when someone is clearly not mortal, but in character it isn't obvious when someone use excellency or something unless it has the OBVIOUS tag?
>>46987236
>>Daily reminder from her that all factors of the human experience are transient and not ultimately satisfying.
>>Sporadic voices in head think that sounds legit.
Well, why not fix that then.
>>46986870
>>46986913
>>46986948
>>46986928
I've been playing RPGs for 20+ years.
I've been playing with the group I'm running Exalted for 4 years now. There's been some bumpiness along the way but the group has settled into its rut, which is heavy on the narrative and relatively light on combat.
There are personality clashes and sometimes we can't play something because someone isn't into the genre, but we're adults. We talk through it.
This group originally organized, for what it's worth, on the old White Wolf forums. Of the original group I believe I am the only person left. But of the second wave we've got three remaining players. We four have been the core of the group. Six players are currently active, one is on sabbatical for work reasons, and I think we might be able to convince a couple others to come play with us in a pinch.
I play in a group with another member of that group as the only common link playing a different game.
I'm also playing a third game with a group recruited partially IRL and partially via PAX. Pretty solid so far.
A 4th game would really tax me, especially if I had to GM it.
Some protips: somebody has to be proactive about reminding people when you're playing.
If you don't know the platform (roll20, hangouts, irc) get familiar with it before you have to use it to play.
Treat these people like you would your friends because that's the sort of relationship you're trying to build.
Get everyone's emails and email each other during the week to stay stoked about gametime.
Good people make good games. If you're consistently ending up in bad games, you may want to look in the mirror.
>>46987424
>Does this mean that out of character, we always know when someone is clearly not mortal, but in character it isn't obvious when someone use excellency or something unless it has the OBVIOUS tag?
Yes, precisely. Unless someone uses a charm with the Obvious tag, or their Anima flares, they just come across as 'REALLY GOOD' rather than 'HOLY SHIT MAGIC.'
>>46986926
Celestial Bliss Trick.Well, probably Unsurpassed Showman Style so I could also make tons of money off music
>>46987611
So if a player sees a guy use a non obvious charm to defend himself, his first reaction shouldn't be "That guy isn't mortal?" It should be... "Eh, he's good?"
If that is the case it seems like the wyld hunt shouldn't be that hard to avoid.
>>46987727
>So if a player sees a guy use a non obvious charm to defend himself, his first reaction shouldn't be "That guy isn't mortal?" It should be... "Eh, he's good?"
More 'Wow, he's incredible,' but yes.
>If that is the case it seems like the wyld hunt shouldn't be that hard to avoid.
If you take care to avoid Obvious charms and flaring your Anima Banner, and you don't go swinging artifacts around? It's not that hard to avoid. Especially when you take into account that it'll probably be months or years before word of an Anathema even reaches anyone who could do something about it. And by that point they might not care anymore.
>>46987727
>If that is the case it seems like the wyld hunt shouldn't be that hard to avoid.
sure...unless you get into a serious fight and have to flare your anima. Or you want to carry around an artifact weapon and don't have storage charms. Or you do something totally crazy no mortal could do.
How does the Guild work? Do they have like guild houses in towns and stuff?
>>46988103
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=east+india+company
>>46987727
The Wyld Hunt, as with all TPK-level threats in RPGs, is more a way to make players play in a particular way than an actual challenge that they'll encounter. Creating that divide between powerful and "WITNESS MY TRUE POWER" Peripheral essence use, and then forcing players to be subtle with their power, is another way Exalted tries to make Exalts feel powerful. (Apparently Dishonored was designed to do the same thing; they wanted non-lethal players to always be carrying six ways to kill everyone in the room, so they can have the fun of thinking "I won't... but damn straight I COULD".)
But I can still see a lot of ways for clever hunters to catch out Solars. The Robin Hood approach for instance; put the Exalt in a competitive situation where winning without essence becomes slowly but progressively more unlikely.
There's also the possibility of a DB deciding that they're jealous of an extremely talented "mortal" PC and accusing them of being Anathema with no actual evidence. I like the idea of a Solar needing to use Solar charms to convince people who think they're a Solar that they aren't, especially if they haven't used any charms up to that point.
>>46988103
Yes. If that's what you want.
>>46988103
The Guild is made up of semi-decentralized cells that slowly trickle money up towards the top in exchange for things like information, business loans, and sometimes even mercenaries if you're doing something profitable enough. Most Guild members are, at best, loosely affiliated, and pay more for the prestige/trustworthiness that affiliation brings, and occasionally the slight protection it offers.
It is not, strictly speaking, not actually a guild, despite being called The Guild.
>>46988291
If that's what you want.
>>46988103
Consider the expression "fuck you money" - when you don't have to put up with the boss's shit, or the landlord's shit, or anyone's shit, because you could say "fuck you", walk out of your job on the spot, and have enough money to live comfortably for a year or two while looking for a new job.
The Guild has "fuck you money" on a national scale. Hello, we're from the Guild, we would like an exclusive license to sell drugs and buy ivory from your country. BTW, should you refuse this deal, we'll just use some of our oodles of cash to buy up all the grain you planned on importing, and ask your successor after the starvation and peasant riot has thrown you out of office.
The Guild also has the money, manpower, contacts, maps, and general scope-of-organization that they can organize a fifty-wagon caravan with a bunch of whatever is cheap here, travel three thousand miles east, sell goods, buy whatever's cheap there, and come back three thousand miles with rare exotic goods from far away. It's trading on a scale that has a massive barrier to entry, so the Guild has a self-sustaining semi-monopoly simply because nobody else has enough spare cash lying around to risk it on sending tons of goods three thousand miles away.
The Guild lives by the rep that you do not fuck with a Guild factor. Any bodyguards he might have are mostly to ward off random violent drunkards, not a serious assault. If you make a serious assault on a Guild factor, you will win easily and can loot his office, and three months later when you started thinking maybe you'd gotten away with it they'd forgotten all about it, in walks a Guild investigator with two hundred Brides of Ahlat in tow (I didn't even know they hired out as mercenaries!) prepared to grab the town by its metaphorical ankles and shake it upside down until every perpetrator falls out and can be made to repay and/or suffer as appropriate.
>>46988142
I did a nonlethal ghost playthrough of Dishonored first, I love my stealth games, then I did a chaotic open fighting run, with a little bit of sneaking.
I found it the most fun when I played the Daud dlc as lethal and sneaky, getting up behind guys and backstabbing them, having their bodies turn to dust instead of needing to drag them away. It allowed me to chain a few kills before they turned around to see a body.
I do like Exalted for having those 2 tiers; non-flaring pushing the limits, superman world of cardboard straining to stay in control, and then bonfire anima drown them in motes until they choke on it and everyone for miles flees or marches upon us.
It's great for feeling the stakes of the story at the moment the gloves are off.
Well let's try this again. I've been looking for an image that finds it's way into these threads on occassion- a dude with a katana pointing towards the viewer, with armour, blond hair and old japanese flag (one with rays) in the background. Does anybody know which one I'm talking about?
>>46987236
Is that pic supposed to be Mara or just a Lunar?
>>46988103
The Guild works by having read their metaphorical Adam Smith and realizing that trade, merchants, and entrepreneurialism are actually good things.
This is far from obvious. Adam Smith only began the writing about economics of polities around 1750 in our history. Before that, trade was poorly understood, mercantilism was the order of the day (basically you should never import goods you can produce yourself), and being a broker was seen as vaguely dishonorable. Crafting, good. Going to faraway countries and bringing back exotics, good. Buying stuff today and selling it tomorrow and somehow earning money, that's impossible, you must be cheating somehow (or cheating someone).
>>46987508
Working on it.
The voices are hardly impossible to suppress, but removing them entirely seems like it'll be a different story. It's not like I received a 2e Whispers background or anything (a lot of it is mostly an expansion to his Necromancy shaping ritual archetype), so I don't know how close to that the ST is playing things. Similarly, I'm not entirely sure yet to what extent they're an aspect of the thing my Eclipse absorbed into himself and whether they're related to the various ominous benefits doing so has bestowed. They could also be related to Spectres/the Neverborn, assuming there's some sort of link there, or even just the result of my character's fevered mind straining against the eldritch knowledge presently floating about his head.
But the ST has kept us busy, so I haven't had as much of a chance as I'd like to look into it.
>>46988478
Just a pic that I thought would sorta resemble Mara.
>>46988291
>It is not, strictly speaking, not actually a guild, despite being called The Guild.
I prefer to call it the Guild of Guilds.
>>46988588
>Just a pic that I thought would sorta resemble Mara.
Here's the only official art I could find, even if it's for ants.
>>46988142
>There's also the possibility of a DB deciding that they're jealous of an extremely talented "mortal" PC and accusing them of being Anathema with no actual evidence. I like the idea of a Solar needing to use Solar charms to convince people who think they're a Solar that they aren't, especially if they haven't used any charms up to that point.
I don't think most would call them anathema if it was just jealousy. They'd probably just kill them or try to then find out they actually are anathema. Since, any mortal standing up to a dragon-blood is...not possible but other stuff like demons and giant animals are possible? And I mean just one vs one.
>>46989030
Yeah, that's the one they used in Compass of Celestial Directions: Malfeas. It's kinda ugly though, to be frank, so I prefer the image I found in >>46987157, which seems spot on to her general description, or at least typical traits seen throughout her multiple forms across every edition such as blue eyes and doe-legs.
>>46989169
>It's kinda ugly though, to be frank
EY YO DAS RAYCISS YOU NAZI-ASS CRACKAH
>>46989189
>>46989076
Kill them and then find out they are actually anathema I mean.
>>46989030
Also Mara does not look like much of a seducer in that picture.
Is Mara supposed to be a big deal among 2CD? She seems to get a ton of exposure, but there never seemed to be any good reason for it.
>>46989950
She's engaged in a lot of setting-important fuckery.
>>46988142
>so they can have the fun of thinking
Except it wasn't fun. Your nonlethal options were so limited that you had to abuse the cheaty and trivialising blink and time stop spells just to get through. And to do what exactly? Avoid actually having fun with the million and one harder, faster, cleaner tools they keep handing you to kill your enemies?
The "lets give them lots of exciting tools but tell them not to use them" thinking that went into Dishonored shouldn't be emulated in anything. It should only be held up as the curious example of a stealth game that actually wasn't much fun to play pure "ghost's shadow" stealth in.
>>46990067
y tho
>>46990407
I think she was somehow involved with Exalted learning the secrets of Sorcery. This might have changed though.
>>46989950
Yeah, she is. There's quite a few reasons for it too, although after some pretty hefty significance in 1e, Mara didn't have all that much exposure at all during 2e until nearer to its end. And frankly, 2CDs always feel a bit too weak in every edition and generally end up getting perks added to them by the ST so that they match up with the setting's lofty exposition upon them, accounting for why Mara herself might not seem that impressive. Probably why 2CDs tend to be a bit vaguer in 3e, so the ST can just provide them with whatever powers think are appropriate.
For Mara, in a meta sense she was one of the very first, if not THE very first 2nd Circle Demons to be introduced, as she was originally written up in 1e's Storyteller's Handbook. Incidentally, this is where the name for Black Claw Style comes from, as it's noted that she has a Specialty in it, but... Black Claw Style is never exposited upon in all of 1e and would in fact not be drafted until the latter days of 2e when Ink Monkeys was being published. By that point, CoCD: Malfeas had already adapted Mara to 2e and removed her specialty in a style that didn't actually exist at the time, even though BCS in Ink Monkeys was explicitly invented by her. Ah, White Wolf development! Also, she's basically Exalted's version of a succubus, so you know that's gonna be popular.
Anyways, in-setting, to start with she's the Defining Soul of Erembour, one of the Ebon Dragon's most prominent Third Circle Souls, but what really gives her eminence is that she's one of the 2CDs with by far the most influence outside of Malfeas and likewise one of those that escapes Hell most often due to her significant cults spread throughout, IIRC, the East and South. As mentioned before, she invented Black Claw Style which in its 2e lore caused a notable incident during the First Age (this was removed in 3e, probably to keep the First Age more mysterious).
(cont)
>>46990442
But probably the most significant thing is her implied role in the introduction of Sorcery:
http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zaranephilpal/OriginsOfSorcery
Note that this was two years before 2e even existed and what Infernals actually were was still quite mysterious. The Scarlet Empress being abducted and mindfucked by the Ebon Dragon had already been hinted at in the books remarkably early on and the fanbase had pretty much ascertained it, though.
So food for thought. May or may not apply to 3e, but in the 3e game I've described here, it became a very relevant plot point.
>>46990442
>>46990539
Sounds like she's Exalted's Kim Kardashian. She keeps getting attention because she's always been getting attention.
Why is Gem the best part of the setting?
>>46990805
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fufuluffQDY
What would be the function of a manse in a city ruled mostly by mortals? Would it be some sort of public office?
>>46990961
Depends on its magical powers, man. I'm too lazy to look up if mortals can attune to manses in 3e or not, but a lot of them are automatic/manual anyway.
If it's an impregnable fortress with a fuck laser on top of it, it's probably a military hold. If it's a place where the shadows whisper all sorts of interesting gossip, it's probably a political setpiece.
>>46990961
Many Hearthstones don't require being placed in an artefact, some do things such as purify water or create summer temperatures. We don't quite know what Manses do if you can't attune to them in this edition, but we know that Demesnes are magical landscapes that may grow interesting and unusual plants or some good that has a tangible benefit.
>>46990659
You could honestly say the same thing about Octavian. He was initially introduced in Games of Divinity, the first book we got a glimpse of Malfeas in, had a prominent lore role in 1e's Creatures of the Wyld, was the first 2CD introduced in 2e, and kept getting references throughout 2e's run (especially in every single book that featured Hell prominently), not to mention cameos in a multitude of comics. I'd go as far as to say that he has the most comic appearances of any demon in Exalted, in fact. Now he's already back in 3e right in the corebook.
He's well-known, a standby, and people think he's plenty badass. He's kind of the iconic Second Circle and definitely had a greater presence than Mara in general until probably the advent of Black Claw Style late into 2e.
This isn't even touching upon Third Circle Demons. Ligier, Orabilis, and Erembour get plentiful references. It's arguable whether this is to Ligier's benefit or detriment as a character, as he doesn't feel very kept in reserve at all. On the other hand, he is the motherfucking Green Sun. Hard to fucking miss him.
So yeah. I wouldn't call Mara's appearances overwrought at all. As far as the Second Circles go, I'd say she's well-realized. Other 2CDs deserve the sort of fleshing out that she's gotten, and each certainly has hints of how they could be expounded upon. Zsofika, Stanewald, Gervesin, Florivet, Gebre, Sigereth and Sondok all cry out for this.
Alternatively, you could take the effort of using them in your games and attributing all manner of cool shit to them that you'd like.
1st for Morke and Holden are liars
Help a brother out.
I want to play this chucklefuck as a Solar.
Put everything into dodge, athletics, melee, thrown, etc. and do everything I can to become the most untouchable dodge tank possible.
Most of the charms I'm running are from the Dodge and Athletics pools.
Question is, are there any decent (debuffs are optional but awesome) throwing weapons?
>>46991422
>are there any decent throwing weapons
Look at this motherfucker.
Buddy, are you sure you need help?
Do honestly even need Melee?
>>46991489
Gotta do something for his pistol.
Also I don't want to be total dead weight. Thought I might as well grab something ranged to actually not be useless.
Otherwise, it's BAT SMASH FOR DAYS MOTHERFUCKER.
>>46991541
>Also I don't want to be total dead weight. Thought I might as well grab something ranged to actually not be useless.
Put points into Athletics and buy up the Gotta Go Fast tree, this will keep people from sniping you from where ever.
>>46991541
No, I mean, you look like you're going to do perfectly fine.
Get Awareness. Get some Initiative Charms. Go first every combat. Thrown likes going first.
Otherwise your build is perfectly serviceable just from looking at the abilities you're favoring. It's all simple and gets the job done, although Melee is an xp eater. You're certainly not split up in too many directions, otherwise. You'll do fine.
>>46991679
>>46991644
Thanks guys!
First time playing Exalted. I was nervous that it wouldn't work out!
What do you roll for sex in Exalted?
>>46990431
Nope. Still is.
>>46991741
It's still Stamina + Performance.
>>46991741
Stamina + Performance for how good it is, Stamina + Resistence to fight off STIs.
>>46991789
>>46991798
I'm wondering because I saw a thread some days ago about Sex in TTRPGs and one of the first answers was suggesting a couple of things to roll. They were not only Stamina + Performance, but things like Dextery + Lore (Biology) and Dextery + Riding. Is that guy here? And if so, could you please repeat it?
>>46991867
what
>>46991541
>Gotta do something for his pistol.
Firewands are in the link. There's a freaking MA just for them.
>>46991075
Well, you gotta have a 'kill your face' demon. No better way to show the precise level of power that a race has than by having one try to nail the dawn into the ground like a railroad spike. It's reason why the Blood Apes always got so much attention.
>>46992199
I'm not saying his prominence is necessarily undeserved. I like Octavian. It's just that, if one is looking at over-represented 2CDs, they might as well look at the most depicted unique Demon of all.
>>46992665
Well, it's easy to see why Octavian is over-represented; he fills an extremely vital niche. I just don't understand why he's second fiddle to the goffik u want som fuk demon.
>>46990961
>What would be the function of a manse in a city ruled mostly by mortals?
Probably the city itself. You can extend a manse outwards as municipal infrastructure rather than as a singular, tightly-contained fortress/mansion. So, since mortals gain ZERO benefit from things like mote respiration, it's more likely that it's allocated to things like lighting their city streets, powering their public transit system, or even granting good health to all of the city's residents.
Municipal manses are something I'm super on board for.
>>46991867
That's stupid, and you should feel stupid.
>>46992739
In what remote fashion is Octavian second fiddle to Mara? Their roles and interests are very different. Octavian is an abominable warrior and grand general of unreasonable strength, Mara is a poisonous manipulator and masterful sorceress of dark grace. Octavian has more territory than her in Hell because he's set out to conquer and dominate, but Mara has a greater presence in Creation because she's spent time insinuating herself outside of hell. They've cultivated different areas of influence. And both are in Exalted 3e's corebook. Second fiddle? What are you even on about?
Furthermore, who gets to say Mara's niche isn't also vital? The demons of myth are as often subversive, shape-shifting seducers and deceivers as they are unstoppable murder machines.
>>46993252
Second fiddle in a Doylest sense. He gets the art, sure, but she gets the setting events and book mentions popping up almost at random. And the succubus 'niche' is overflowing in Exalted; the series has never been shy about sex. Just about every other demon of note is somewhat skilled at tempting mortals and Exalts and taking other forms, never mind the neomah and other literal semen demons. That's why akuma are such a big problem, or were before 3e.
>>46993775
>He gets the art, sure,
Of which she only has >>46989030, I might add, whereas Octavian has gotten art in every edition the moment he's introduced and then some from various comics.
>but she gets the setting events
She gets involved with Sorcery and Black Claw Style, in both cases things not going according to plan (arguable but probable with regards to Sorcery unless you subscribe to a THE EBON DRAGON'S KEIKAKU KNOWS NO BOUNDS lines of thinking).
>and book mentions popping up almost at random
And Octavian doesn't?
>And the succubus 'niche' is overflowing in Exalted
Come ooon. Disregarding the Neomah entirely because they kinda suck and you could just immediately apply the same argument to Blood Apes and Octavian, you basically got the Lover and Erembour, Mara's demon mom, as the most dedicated succubus archetype equivalents, and both of them bring many other things to the table. The Lover, being aligned with Oblivion, takes the idea in a significantly different direction, while Erembour has it as a footnote to her more dedicated role as a herald of night and darkness.
>the series has never been shy about sex. Just about every other demon of note is somewhat skilled at tempting mortals and Exalts and taking other forms, never mind the neomah and other literal semen demons.
The series has never been shy about violence. Just about every other demon of note is somewhat skilled at murdering mortals and Exalts and fightan gud, never mind the Blood Apes and other literal murder machines.
>That's why akuma are such a big problem, or were before 3e.
This is neither here nor there, but incidentally, Akuma would be a big problem even if demons weren't good at convincing people to be their agents for power because they make such astoundingly great infiltrators. One moment of weakness and that Exalt is now a ticking time bomb. Gorol was a big deal just on his own, after all.
>>46988103
By having no values other than profits.
Then letting talented potential agents in on the idea that enlightened self interest leads to even more money.
So, they are basically an amalgam of every evil merchant Lord conspiracy ever.
>>46991867
Personally, I would accept arguments for several other combinations.
Perception, Wits, Athletics, Integrity, Brawl... None of these are particularly difficult to associate.
Point of issue is that Performance seems odd unless one is making a porn or engaging in ritualized romping.
>>46994344
Performance has the sex charms, plus it covers the physical dexterity and creative flourishes needed to entertain your partner. Play them like an instrument.
Stamina could be switched out for different styles though.
>>46988524
Being a broker is often scummy.
Pay less than a good is worth to the person who produced it, charge as much as possible from the person purchasing.
If it were a service rather than an emporium system, it might have less of the reek of price gouging about it, but in general, the rule of buy low,sell high, and corner ever market possible to erase competition has been the driving force behind our current market system. Given enough time, the brokers gain more and more control over the market, often with selective investment in governing authorities, until the producers must go through the brokers to sell their wares. Thus the artisans must eventually serve the brokers directly rather than selling their wares to those interested in buying. The middle man becomes the dominant power in the economy and life becomes more work for the crafts person and for less reward while the consumer must now not only pay for the good, but also whatever graft the broker decides to add. For even more command profit, brokers take control of what had once been public resources and cost of living lurchs farther up, with a captive consumer base, especially once state sanctioned (often subsidized) monopolies control access to necessities.
Adam Smith's ideals were very nice, but ultimately naive. He missed that the brokers would be far more focused on becoming the new aristocracy than sustained market functionality. In a brokerage and usury based society, there is a threshold of wealth one can reach where one can effectively opt out of the market by becoming a petty despot.
And that's how The Guild works. It is a consortium of greed worshipping neo-aristocrats who, collectively, are more powerful than any of the nations other than the Scarlet Empire, which they are basically tied for first with world power.
>>46994180
>And Octavian doesn't?
That really has been my impression. He mostly gets one paragraph in books actually about Malfeas. Mara gets an entire MA, multiple appearances in Sorcery, and whatever the fuck was supposed to happen at the end of Under the Rose.
>The series has never been shy about violence. Just about every other demon of note is somewhat skilled at murdering mortals and Exalts and fightan gud, never mind the Blood Apes and other literal murder machines.
That's not even remotely similar. Personal combat is one of the big pillars the game is built on. Fucking people is not central to the principles of Exalted, at least not the way I play it.
And I'm going to stop typing for a while, because it's late and I don't recall writing half of this post.
>>46994398
>herp derp the charms are under this skill so it governs everything related to that family of acts.
Sorry kid, mind control and creating intimacies are found elsewhere. Which, if your sex isn't good enough to inflict intimacies... It isn't good.
Not to mention the entire sado sexual Martial art.
But keep fapping to swallowed darkness.
>>46994659
Not that guy, but how many times did your mother drop you on your head as a child?
>>46994659
>mind control and creating intimacies are found elsewhere
But that's literally what Performance does? It's a social skill like any other.
>>46994636
>That really has been my impression. He mostly gets one paragraph in books actually about Malfeas.
Let's take ctrl+f to the .pdfs and see how wrong you are, my drowsy friend.
Mara is mentioned a grand total of once in Roll of Glorious Divinity II, implying her roll in Exalts receiving Sorcery. She didn't even have stats yet. I don't even think she'd been mentioned before then in 2e, so if you only owned 2e books back then, well... she looks like one of those random Second Circles that gets brought up occasionally in the text but have no actual context, huh?
By comparison. Octavian is mentioned seven times. And gets a comic.
In CoCD: Malfeas, Mara's name is mentioned a total of 22 times, though mostly in her very own character profile (which is finally introduced) a total of 14 times. Otherwise, she's noted to have created the Bisclavarets, and is once actually mentioned in tandem with Octavian (the mutation errata).
Now, turn to page 11 of CoCD: Malfeas. "THE TRIUMPHS AND TRAGEDY OF THE QUARTER PRINCE." Literally paragraphs on end about him. "One paragraph in books actually about Malfeas" my ass. His name is mentioned a total of 39 times throughout the book. He is also noted to have created the Gethin.
Now take into account that Mara is not explicitly said to be the spirit in the legends regarding Brigid's attainment of Sorcery. This is simply heavily implied and confirmed by a lead writer to have been the intention, but it's still left ambiguous so the ST has the final say. Since Mara had presence nearing zero in 2e before CoCD:M, you would not even know Mara had any involvement unless you were familiar with 1e or looked into the matter.
So really, you're complaining about nothing. It depends on what you assign value to, but the two simply have differing functions, authority, and goals
(cont)
>>46994636
>Fucking people is not central to the principles of Exalted, at least not the way I play it.
Your games must suck, Anon-kun.
>>46994636
>>46995133
But wait, there's more!
>Personal combat is one of the big pillars the game is built on.
It may not seem this way to you if you're treating Exalted like a shounen anime 24/7, and I honestly wouldn't blame you if you were, but you should be aware that it is perfectly possible to play Exalted 3e with a bare minimum of combat or even none at all if every character is aspected to social influence instead. Just as it is perfectly possible to play Exalted without using the social influence system if everyone is a Killfuck Soulshitter.
>Fucking people is not central to the principles of Exalted, at least not the way I play it.
Now this is where you make a profoundly fundamental error. Mara's function is not just a random fuckdoll demon. Treating Mara like a random fuckdoll demon is inane and equivalent to treating Octavian like the Hulk, incoherent speech and all. I blame this on your sleepiness.
Mara does more than fucking people. Mara is a shapeshifter, a manipulator, a sorceress, a martial artist, and a deity to cults throughout Creation. You don't even need for Mara to fuck anyone for her to be relevant to a story, just like you don't need the Lover to fuck anyone for her to be relevant to the story. These are characters with nuance to them who have natures and ideals and a multitude of different things to offer to a plot. You shouldn't just reduce them to "vapid fuckdoll" just because they're sexy. There are sexy characters across all narratives who never have sex within the story itself. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. Well, again, sleep clouds judgment, I guess.
In most games, frankly, sex is generally going to be a cut-to-black side thing, anyway. You're not one of those people who spergs out just because sex even has the possibility of being introduced into a story, are you? Why else would you care about Mara's relevance in comparison to Octavian?
Or you could just be sleepy, lel.
Why would you rely on Dodge as a primary defence, when possibly the most common combat sorcery - one even available to mortals - completely bypasses it?
>>46995926
Because it's xp cost effective given that Dex applies to so many rolls otherwise and parrying is not always an option.
What would you suggest otherwise, Anon?
>>46995926
Reflex Sidestep Technique.
If it works against ambushes (which ignore Defense), it can certainly work against an undodgeable (which, likewise, ignores Evasion).
With 2 to start and gaining roughly +1 per 5 dice in the pool, a typical Solar (Evasion 3-4) will be able to apply their full Dodge repertoire against a mortal sorcerer who stands a chance of hitting anyway (6+ dice), while a specialist (Evasion 5-6) is hoping their opposition also uses an Excellency.
>>46991075
If anything, it is Alveua that is slightly disappointing.
She's with sorcerer-queen soul-sucking martial-artist Mara and "I'm a fucking badass and I know it" Octavian. She's plenty fun as she is, but she lacks this little something that would make her a great second circle demon.
Probably because her thematic is that she is a craft demon, and craft is in this sorry state. Her only craft charm is basically 'ignore the craft system please'.
>>46996118
Yeah, that's true. Like, I'll be straight with you, man, Alveua even came straight to mind when I was naming off that list of 2CDs, but I cast her aside because I immediately thought "eh, she's a bit boring, ain't she?"
And she is. She's got a bizarre and thus rather cool base concept and a cute design, but the core of that base concept is just not taken far enough. It's too reserved in its application and thus doesn't feel particularly special. If she gave more bang for her buck (that is, human sacrifices), she might be more compelling. Even then, as a designated crafter, it's hard for her to get involved with a story. I do recall her being mentioned offhand as a plot device for Infernals and TED to shit out Artifacts with relative ease, but that's about all she gets.
>>46996046
>This Charm may be activated in response to an ambush attack, a trap, or other damaging effect the Solar is completely unaware of
If you're aware of the un-dodgeable attack, there's no argument for being able to Reflexive Sidestep Technique it. Potentially being able to dodge an un-dodgeable attack that you aren't aware of probably won't fly with most STs, either.
>>46996046
As I could not find a quote from ASB that aptly conveys what I think this means, have the theme of the guy who says it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHXKRNAFE48
>>46996326
>If you're aware of the un-dodgeable attack
So turn around. You can't possibly be aware of it then.
>Potentially being able to dodge an un-dodgeable attack that you aren't aware of probably won't fly with most STs, either.
Ambushes and undodgeability are the exact same thing, Defense-wise: they bypass the relevant defense.
And frankly there's two reasons an ST throws DoOB at a Dodge primary: because fuck that guy, in which case no he probably won't allow it, but why are you playing with him; or to see what the player does when confronted with a really dangerous threat that they can't leverage their best strength against, and at that point it's all about selling it.
>>46996709
>So turn around. You can't possibly be aware of it then.
I'm not even going to say anything.
I'm just going to let this stand on its own.
>>46996709
Not the Anon you were talking to. Un-dodgeable and ambushes are not the same thing. They might both declare your evasion value as 0, but they are most certainly not the same thing.
>>46996709
As much as I hate to say this because I would in fact like it if Reflex-Sidestep Technique actually did obviate this issue as I feel removing a character's primary defense so easily is a shitty design direction, Ambushes and Undodgeable attacks are outright different concepts and have been in every single edition of Exalted; in 2e, Ambushes were referred to as attacking from surprise, for instance, and was definitely distinct from a perfect attack.
Even though they are mechanically similar, they are technically different aspects of the system and a Charm that counters one does not necessarily counter the other. The Charm must explicitly state that it does, in fact, negate the Ambush or Undodgeable factor of an attack, or otherwise, like Seven Shadow Evasion, it bypasses the effect of Undodgeable entirely by not actually interacting with your Evasion at all.
>>46996872
At least Ex3, so far anyway, isn't as festooned with ways to get unfooable attacks as 2e ended up.
>>46996985
Not festooned exactly, there's plenty enough to be getting along with, and there seems to be more undodgeables (or at least, more exploitable undodgeables) than there are unblockables.
I think Flashing Vengeance Draw is the only undodgeable that isn't also unblockable, and it can only happen once a combat.
While DoOB and Cascade of Cutting Terror are both undodgeable, and can pretty much be used on demand.
>>46988588
>Working on it.
>blahblah voices
I meant more about fixing the other problem.
>all factors of the human experience are transient and not ultimately satisfying
>>46996118
>>46996265
don't care she still muh waifu
>>46997197
Oh.
Well, I'm not quite trying to drop all of Creation into the Void quite yet.
Otherwise, you tell me. It is the human condition to be without absolute satisfaction. This Too Shall Pass and all.
Okay, so I've got some stats for some Yozichton's souls. But I'm a moron in editing. Is there any easy to use template I can use for that?
>>46995576
>Now this is where you make a profoundly fundamental error. Mara's function is not just a random fuckdoll demon. Treating Mara like a random fuckdoll demon is inane and equivalent to treating Octavian like the Hulk, incoherent speech and all. I blame this on your sleepiness.
>Mara does more than fucking people. Mara is a shapeshifter, a manipulator, a sorceress, a martial artist, and a deity to cults throughout Creation. You don't even need for Mara to fuck anyone for her to be relevant to a story, just like you don't need the Lover to fuck anyone for her to be relevant to the story. These are characters with nuance to them who have natures and ideals and a multitude of different things to offer to a plot. You shouldn't just reduce them to "vapid fuckdoll" just because they're sexy. There are sexy characters across all narratives who never have sex within the story itself. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. Well, again, sleep clouds judgment, I guess.
Hell, I don't think Mara even has any powers dependent on having sex. She's a seductress, sure, but while she no doubt has her share of sex, what she's about is not really fucking as much as tempting people to do dark deeds. Also stealing souls and feeding them to people. Actual sex isn't really central to her character.
>>46996118
Alveua does sound interesting, and I like that there's a non-Oblivion aligned character that works with Soulsteel. Does anyone have a picture of her? Because that woman...
The hum of insects accompanies Alveua wherever she
goes, for she hammered out many of Hell’s arthropods on
her forge, and her creations love her still. Indeed, there
seems something insectile about her slender limbs, her
glittering eyes, her dark glossy skin. But her delicate frame
belies her strength.
... isn't even holding the hammer right.
Indeed, the massive red-hot hammer
she carries seems as light as a feather in her hands.
Maybe that's one of her assistants or something.
>>46998134
It is massive, it is red-hot, and she seems to carry it like it weighted as much as nothing.
The fuck are you bitching about homosexual?
>>46998169
I just pinged, did they ditch the 'demon x can enter into creation if xxxxxx' part of 2CD in 3E? That is incredibly sad. It won't stand in my games.
>>46998134
>Alveua does sound interesting, and I like that there's a non-Oblivion aligned character that works with Soulsteel.
I don't think she works with Soulsteel. She forges people into artifacts, sure, but not Soulsteel artifacts.
Do the recently-clarified merit XP rules seem pants-on-head retarded to anyone else? So apparently, to purchase a merit, you have to purchase each of its possible values before moving onto the next one.
So, to buy a three-dot merit like Fast Reflexes, it costs 9xp (3xp per dot). But to buy Mighty Thew to a 3-dot rating, it costs double that - 18xp, because you first need to buy it at the 1-dot and 2-dot levels. Why do these two merits - which are apparently at the same approximate level, given their dot ratings - have such vastly different costs?
And that's even leaving aside the fact that they have the same costs during chargen - BP/XP is a known cancer, after all.
>>46998169
Just that she seems to be bracing it with her elbow there. If she holds her hammer anything like a chef holds a knife, then she'd be casually gesturing with it in one hand, not lifting it from three points. It's a petty complaint, sure, but that pose seems to have more to do with "we need a tall picture to go between two columns of text" than "we chose this pose because it conveys the character's unnatural strength".
>>46998209
The text in the 3e write-up doesn't specifically say "Soulsteel", but she's forging people's souls into black metal. If you want a Soulsteel Daiklave for your character and want to dodge the ethics of the "constantly wailing unwilling souls trapped in your +1/+3 sword" (while falling head-long into the ethics of "zealous worshipful willing souls trapped in your +1/+3 sword"), she's the one to call.
You don't even need to be a Celestial Sorcerer, since she doesn't need to be summoned to take sacrifices. I remember someone suggesting that the number of sacrifices needed for a Soulsteel artifact should probably be equivalent to the number of followers you get from other 3-5 dot backgrounds. A decent rule of thumb to me, and one that requires about 100 volunteered souls to get a 3 dot Daiklave. I won't type out the backstory I'm imagining, but I bet the one you're imagining is also good.
>>46998280
>The text in the 3e write-up doesn't specifically say "Soulsteel", but she's forging people's souls into black metal.
However, her Charm Hell-Forging Clangor states that "This Charm cannot be used in
sunlight or moonlight, nor while forging orichalcum, moonsilver, starmetal, jade, or soulsteel—the magical materials of Creation and the Underworld are inimical to her nature."
>>46998280
>then she'd be casually gesturing with it in one hand, not lifting it from three points. It
Look at her grip on the hammer. She's barely applying any strength. It is not the pose of someone who has incredible trouble at lifting her hammer, it is the pose of someone who is playing with a 3 meters tall, 2 metric ton hammers weighting next to nothing.
She's almost dancing with that thing.
Guy, I've been wondering- doesn't it make a whole lot of sense to have 1 ability at 3 at chargen as unfavoured and not casted, just so you can buy maybe 1 or 2 Charms for it for 10 xp, so that you can reach the Essence threashold faster and also get a free Excellency for the price of 1 Charm?
>>46998345
It depends on whether reaching an essence threshold slightly faster is of more value to you than getting new charms minutely faster, and if your character needs 11 excellencies instead of 10.
>>46998196
They didn't ditch it as much as they didn't mention it in the 3e Core. They're specifically mentioned as being able to enter creation through the spell or through a sorcerous working (although that calls a specific one, and it arrives unbound). Saying something is a T1 working is similar to saying it's a weird thing that could happen without anyone making it happen, but there's no specific line saying that Neomah can enter creation through portals formed when the blood of a stillborn baby mixes with the tears of its mother, for instance.
>>46998311
Yeah, that seems pretty odd to me. It's her craft charm, and it doesn't allow soulsteel or other magical materials, but she can forge artifacts from souls, and the book refers to artifacts always being made from soulsteel or other magical materials. Is she's making some other magical material that just happens to be a black metal made of souls?
Personally, I'd say she can only work with magical materials found in Hell, which includes her version of what is clearly Soulsteel. She takes souls back to Hell to forge them. If you summoned her and provided the "materials" for her to craft something, that might be an impossible command as long as you bind her to creation. Infernal Soulsteel is fine, Abyssal Soulsteel is not.
>>46998327
Fair point. I withdraw my criticism. She could still look more bug-like though. Or maybe moth-like, if they want to keep the insect theme but also be nicer on the printers. (Ink is more expensive than notInk.)
>>46998345
I don't see where the Essence threshold bit comes in, but I agree about the Excellency thing, if not about the implementation.
If you have an ability you want to be good at but don't want to spend a lot of charms on or to use it as a favoured/caste pick, buy one charm in it at character creation and get the excellency for free. I like Perfect Shadow Stillness for this, because "if" you have a good Dex then you can roll a decent number of dice, you have the excellency, and you can reroll a high-stakes stealth roll. And it only requires two ability points.
If you do this, the Night caste doesn't get to be the only Stealth user, but they do still get to be the best Stealth user, and they get to engage in Stealth without basically saying "I'm going to do my thing now. No one else is allowed to do anything until I finish."
Harmonious Presence Meditation is a good "only ever get one charm from this ability" choice from Presence. Also costs two ability points.
>>46998483
>Harmonious Presence Meditation is a good "only ever get one charm from this ability" choice from Presence. Also costs two ability points.
That's exactly what I was thinking about. Well, that and Dread Tiger's Symmetry because it has great synergy with Dawn Anima.
The Essence Threashold bit comes in in that you get 5xp per session and Charms cost 8. So a bit of quick math will tell you that in 8 sessions you'll have spent 40xp and got yourself 5 new Charms. Now two sessions later you're at 50xp. This is the point where you can either spend another 8xp on a favoured/Caste Charm, but then you'd have 48xp spent and you'd have to wait 2 more sessions before hitting Essence 2, after spending 56xp. So you'd be at Essence 2 after 12 sessions. Or, you could buy an un-faboured Charm and get to Essence 2 right then and there, after 10 sessions.
Which isn't a huge deal. If anything it would only ever matter to people who want to get Martial Arts Charms and don't have MA as their Supernal ability. But it is worth pointing out.
>>46998613
Why would anyone buy MA charms with non-Solar XP? And Solar XP doesn't count towards essence thresholds.
>>46998642
You wouldn't. In fact, you'd probably bank some solar XP for the session where you buy the 10 XP Solar Charm and hit essence 2 early, so you can gobble up multiple ess2 MA charms then too.
>>46998654
Precisely. You spend Solar XP on Martial Arts Charms, but a lot of Form Charms have exactly Essence 2 as a requirment. For example Single Point. You want to get the Form, but can't ntil you hit Essence 2 so naturally you want to get there as fast as possible. After 10 sessions you should have ~40 Solar xp so you should be able to buy almost if not all the Charms that require Essence 2 in your chosen Style.
On the topic of XP, does anyone have a link to a BP -> XP conversion? XP to BP's pretty straightforward, but the other way's trickier.
>>46984042
Was there ever anything written about Ysyr before the 3e book? Seems like there are only three paragraphs for it, but it does capture the imagination, doesn't it?
I can't help but imagine them as the Ardent Mages from Endless Legend. A sorcerous empire should have a unifying, tyrannical, and reliable Shaping Method that they all share, and the Ardent Mages work perfectly for it. Watch the trailer, mentally swap "Auriga" for "Creation" or "Gaea" (particularly the part about the world writhing in anguish), and see if you can disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3J7WznDqSQ
Seriously, these guys are perfect for Exalted. If you doubt this, see this official art of them fighting dinosaur men with spears.
>>47000012
The entire Dreaming Sea region was invented for Ex3. We'll hopefully see more stuff on it later, but for now the core book is everything.
>>46984042
I can't help but wonder what the Primoridal War was like.
For instance, how do you actually KILL the Primoridals? We know that fetisch death doesn't wipe them out, it basically forces them to re-evaluate their identity. Also, 300 Solars who were around Essence 4 fought and won the war against countless god-things with the help of all the other factions united. (Let's assume the rumors about whole other types of Exalted and pantheons who were wiped out of memory are just rumors.)
But by the time of RotSE, it's going to come down to the Solar army (Likely lead by a PC or the Bull of the North or Dace) battling just ONE Yozi.
My question is how did anyone survive the first time? The Primoridal War must've been infinitely more destructive.
>>47000415
>My question is how did anyone survive the first time?
Wasn't it implied in 2e that the Primordial War lasted around 150 years, with there being constant casualties on both sides?
>>47000457
I thought they said "Time is fucked, yo." because of the weapons that were employed.
It makes me wonder how someone like Merela could ever die. Assuming she's Essence 10 in Dreams of the First Age, she's roughly three times as unkillable as she previously was!
>>47000415
>We know that fetisch death doesn't wipe them out, it basically forces them to re-evaluate their identity.
>We
I swear there must be books that people just keep secret, because I thought I'd read them all and I still don't know how Yozi work.
But I think you've hit the solution, there. The Exalted can't be destroyed without destroying all mortal-kind, and neither can the Yozi. But the Yozi can be changed and re-configured by losing particular souls, whereas if you kill a Solar then a similar heroic mortal will exalt and just keep fighting you. The Yozi ultimately surrendered, which makes a Creation-spanning war that changed or destroyed everything ever to exist essentially a long enthusiastic conversation convincing them to stop fighting.
If that sounds plausible, then consider the following: The Primordials are split between the Yozi, who adapted and changed, and the Neverborn, who are defined by being unable to let go of Creation. Perhaps it is impossible to kill a Yozi because of their adaptability, but the Primordials that became the Neverborn refused to let go of their Fetich souls, as they refuse to give up Creation, and that is why it was possible to kill them.
Exalted. The good guys are part of the cycle of growth, decay and renewal (like the returning Solars). The bad guys want to change this cycle, either to stop it or destroy it entirely (like the Solars at the end of the First Age).
>>47000012
The Dreaming Sea is Sword and Sorcery, which was really lacking to Exalted before now.
Ysir is the typical villain empire of abominable sorcerers, the Yennin are not!conan, and the DBs presence in the region is the eastern Japanese inspired empire that always shows up in those kind of story.
If you don't have dinosaur-riding-Yennin assaulting the flying ruby citadel of an Ysir lord with the help of a scantily clad Prasad DB, you're doing it wrong.
>>46998211
I heard that clarification before the final release, it was still retarded then, 3xp per dot flat rate is far better, flat rate should be for other ratings too, and xp-only, no bp at chargen.
It's an annoying fuck up, but it's easy to fix for my game by myself.
>>47000644
I will finally be able to play my Vallejo inspired game I wanted since forever.
>>47000644
As for the Yennin, they most probably have absurdly high attributes and abilities, 5/5 at the least, maybe 6/6 for the bests. This goes well with the Conan style of heroes who are absurdly good at everything they do without showing any supernatural ability, and explain why the best Yennin are able to go toe to toe with DBs (6/6 is 12 dices, which is equivalent to a full excellency for a reasonably competent DB). Give them willpower regeneration too.
Don't give them charms please, only bulging muscles and incredibly sharp wits. Also if they could be all almost naked and riding dinosaurs, that'd be cool.
>>47000415
>My question is how did anyone survive the first time? The Primoridal War must've been infinitely more destructive.
My understanding is they generally didn't. Every time a Solar died, a new mortal Exalted and joined the fray. And with Supernal being a thing, they could get really powerful, really fast. It was basically an extended zerg rush by a constantly respawning foe, who could rapidly climb to stupid levels of power if not immediately killed.
>For instance, how do you actually KILL the Primoridals?
My headcannon is that you generally can't. Primordials are quintessentially conceptual; you can only defeat them by invalidating, inverting or twisting their conceptual frameworks. So you might be able to kill the Primordial that embodied the concept of violence by violencing it to death, but destroying Theion, King of All Kings might, say, require forcing him to abdicate his authority.
>>47000924
But aren't the Neverborn dead Primoridals?
>>47000924
>Primordials are quintessentially conceptual; you can only defeat them by invalidating, inverting or twisting their conceptual frameworks.
I think it was stated that killing Primordials is impossible, but Solars were explicitly created to able to kill them anyway. Could be a headcanon though.
Fetich death frequently change the concept a Primordial embodies, so I don't know if they are really tied this way to their concept. It rubs me wrong somehow.
>>47000970
Sorry, should have been more specific. I mean, you can't kill them through Extreme Violence. You need unmake their nature rather than hit them till they stop moving.
>>46998345
I recently swapped out a favoured skill at 3 I only wanted 1 charm, for favouring socialise with 1 dot to get the excellency, though I won't be needing charms for it, seemed like a smart move for my character.
>>46999025
Can't find a link, but here's a solid one:
27 Attributes 10xp each
28 Abilities (Favored) 4xp each, (Non-Favored) 5xp each
4 Specialties 3xp each
10 Merits 3xp each
15 Charms, Spells, Evocations (Favored) 8xp each, (Non-Favored) 10xp each
5 Willpower 8xp each
Start with 75sxp for Character Generation, all costs are the same in play.
>>46998437
>Is she's making some other magical material that just happens to be a black metal made of souls?
She's making non-Magical-Material artifacts, which has always been an admittedly-niche thing.
>>46984042
/tg/, I'm a first-time GM for Exalted. Over the past few months, I've been planning out a campaign for four Solars, with the caveat that each player would play a one-on-one session with me as the tutorial.
The last sessions would have the whole group meeting at last and teaming up as a Circle. It's also to help the players understand the game, because there's a lot of stuff that's unique about Creation. Some of my players are still having trouble with understanding the Charms.
I can fill in the details a bit, but please let me know if I'm doing something seriously wrong setting-wise.
I started with the Zenith caste. He grew up in a shadowland, part of a Deathlord's domain. It's sort of like what you'd expect an Eastern-aesthetic Ravenloft to be like. The Deathlord has caravans making a year-long circuit to take 'the Tithe', a certain number of people who will be sent off to be killed/reanimated/have their souls smelted into soulsteel and so on.
The Zenith Caste was a priest whose parents had been taken away when he was a child. He was adopted by the local priest, and he grew up to replace the old man. This year, the tithe had been raised: but when they came to collect, he stood up against the nemissaries and told them that they would harm his people over his dead body.
He Exalted, destroyed both of their corpse-bodies, and rallied the people against the zombies in the caravan. After driving them out, the PC decided to fortify the town, but ultimately had to flee when they sent two Deathknights to level the place.
Ultimately, the PC managed to severely injure one, but spared her (His cardinal virtue is Compassion) and just took her equipment instead. He then led his people out of the Shadowland to safety, and parted from them so that the Deathlord's minions would pursue him instead.
(More)
>>47000415
>For instance, how do you actually KILL the Primoridals? We know that fetisch death doesn't wipe them out, it basically forces them to re-evaluate their identity.
This is touched upon in the books. Destroying their forms, the jouten, seemed to work, though it might depend on the jouten. Killing off all of their 3CD would probably do the trick also.
>>47000988
Primordials always come back from Fetich death as something conceptually similar to what they used to be. Theion To, the Primordial of authority, became Malfeas, the Yozi of Tyranny; The Lidless Eye That Sees became the Dread Prophet; the River of All Torments became the Silent Wind, et cetera.
>>47000996
It has been suggested that kill all the the Yozi's component Souls in quick succession (~2 hours) might do the trick.
>>47000924
My question is why the Primordials didn't just wipe out humanity and eventually recreate it after the war?
>>47001191
Ah, yeah, that's changing it from linear/exponential to linear/linear. I was looking for something that went to exponential/exponential, but the attribute balance is a bitch.
>>47001198
>(His cardinal virtue is Compassion)
Oh-oh, I think I see one thing you're doing wrong.
Third Edition has just come out, and it is leaps and bounds better than Second Edition. Really big leaps. Like Mountain Crossing Leap Technique leaps.
>>47001272
Yeah, I'm noticing a lot of problems. But the 3E book is lacking a lot of the setting details, and it seems simpler to use a product that is 'complete', so to speak.
One big problem was that the Zenith COULD NOT BE HIT. What I mean is, he just carved through the zombies and nemissaries like it was nothing without even slowing down. But when he was fighting the Deathknight, neither of them could hit each other. They just kept parrying attacks and swinging, and it got exhausting to stunt what was basically an moebius loop of a kung fu duel.
>>47001198
Night Caste was next. As a matter of fact, does anyone else find the whole concept of the Night Caste to be weirdly sinister? Because you have a god that is ostensibly good, and you have one caste of heroes that is all about assassination, theft and underhanded tactics.
At any rate, the Night Caste was an alley rat who grew up amongst a group of orphaned street children. He ultimately became an assassin to support them, but they died anyway when plague swept the city. So at the start of things, he's a remorseless assassin because he has nothing left to live for.
He was supposed to assassinate a prominent merchant, but when he found out that the merchant was a good man with a family, he decided to protect them instead. It turned out that his employers were Yozi cultists, and when he snuck in to kill them all, he Exalted when fighting the Blood-Apes they had summoned.
He ultimately shivved them to death and singlehandedly wiped out the entire cult.
(more)
>>47001198
Hm sounds good, you need to work out if each of the players want to fill gaps in their own backstory, or act out existing stuff or something in between.
>>47001239
You want BP/BP or XP/XP?
The former is harder to make exponential because they're worth too much for the nuanced price differences, the latter is just copying progression exponential XP into character generation XP.
>>46999025
>>47001239
What problem are you trying to solve or otherwise what are you wanting to accomplish with the different system?
>>47001355
No no no no, even if 3e doesn't have the full setting fluff of previous editions out yet, or fully other statted exalt types, it's still FAR better to use than 2e's broken mess.
Convert now and save your group a lot of hassle. A core book that works and old books for setting references is better than 1 book that doesn't work.
>>47001355
>One big problem was that the Zenith COULD NOT BE HIT. What I mean is, he just carved through the zombies and nemissaries like it was nothing without even slowing down. But when he was fighting the Deathknight, neither of them could hit each other. They just kept parrying attacks and swinging, and it got exhausting to stunt what was basically an moebius loop of a kung fu duel.
I see that you've run into the standard operating procedure for combat in 2e. This is what's going to happen in literally every single fight that breaks out, everyone is going to perfectly defend against every possible attack until they run out of motes, at which point they'll be killed in a single attack. All fights can boil down to "The guy with the bigger mote pool will win." And that's just a single rancid turd in the shitpile that is 2e mechanics.
Ask yourself, do you want to play a game that is complete, or do want to play a game that actually works? Go to the OP and download Ex3.
>>47001355
>the 3E book is lacking a lot of the setting details
Use the 3e rules with the 2e setting. This isn't like nWoD; the setting has hardly changed with the new mechanics.
One place where it has changed is with Thaumaturgy and Sorcery. Rules-wise, Thaumaturgy used to be learnable rituals that mortals could access and Sorcery used to be only for Exalts. Now Sorcery is mortal-accessible and has the rituals, where Thaumaturgy is a series of eclectic talents that can't be learnt without the right talent. Basically, if a 2e book says "mortal thaumaturge", pretend it says "mortal sorcerer".
Other than that, the borders of the map have been moved outwards a bit, introducing places you might not visit. There are some new Exalt types, people you might not meet. Everything from 2e is still there, but now there's more stuff. Aside from the thamaturgy thing, nothing from 3e contradicts 2e. Use 2e setting details as much as you like.
>>47001355
>Because you have a god that is ostensibly good
No you don't. What you have is a god who is glowy and in charge.
>>47001355
Those combat problems are a result of using 2nd edition, 3rd edition vastly improves upon the combat system.
The Night Castes are the sun's shadows, they can assassinate, steal and deceive for a righteous purpose, they work well as inquisitors hunting down evil in their own areas because they share that skillset.
Plus Solars and The Unconquered Sun aren't inherently good, they're righteous and arrogant, given a divine mandate to rule and do as they please. Being human, and having the great curse, this often leads to them being tyrants, selfish and corrupt.
>>47001355
>But the 3E book is lacking a lot of the setting details
There's a useful thread explaining the reason why here ( http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/875408-huh-less-was-more ) - and there's nothing to stop you importing bits of the 2E setting with 3E rules.
In other news, are peeps looking forward to the Backer Charm pdf? I requested a Bureacracy charm so have a discreet level of hype.
>>47001501
I'm looking forward to backers having interesting unique ideas more than dice tricks, and I'm hoping it'll fill out some holes in the charm space and round out some neglected trees. It seems to also offer more high-level stuff that we can ignore if we want.
>>47001386
>>47001397
I'm trying to find (or formulate, if I can't find one) a good way of having exponential character creation/exponential character growth. The problem I'm trying to solve is the BP/XP split, while avoiding strictly linear costs (which is far simpler)
The problem I had porting across exponential XP costs, was coming up with chargen pools that divided neatly. For instance, basing it on the most efficient case, for Attributes, the cost of going from 1 to 5 is 40 XP, so I should have a pool of 80 XP for the primary attribute (enough to buy double 5s, same as with BP chargen)
But that means that you could buy all three attributes up to 4, instead of two up to 5, which seems far more beneficial than it should be. It also makes 5/5/1 and 4/4/4 the only valid choices. It also means that you have 8xp "left over", which is also wonky.
>>47001532
It does sound like they're going for the more ostentatious displays of Solar Power.
>>47001501
Looking forward to high level Dawn caste charms. Every single one we get pushes them further into being the absolute best at combat and further away from 2e's Dawn Problem.
Any idea when it'll be out?
>>47001377
These are all the results of the one-on-one sessions, actually. I ran each one as a tutorial for players to get used to things.
>>47001355
The Dawn Caste's is one that I'm not really happy with, to be honest. He wanted to be a disgraced noble turned wandering family. So this is what we ultimately played out.
The Dawn was one of a pair of twins (brothers) born to a cadet branch of the Cathek family. Both of them were highly promising young men, but there was a distinct rivalry between them. Ultimately, the point of contention between the two was one girl that they'd both fallen for.
The PC's brother Exalted as a Fire Aspect Dragonblooded, and claimed the girl as his own by right. The girl wasn't happy about that, so the PC challenged his brother to a duel, fully knowing that he would have his shit pushed in. He couldn't bear not at least trying.
The part I'm not really happy with is how the big situation was resolved. The PC Exalted as a Dawn Caste, and proceeded to kill his own brother really, really hard. To be fair, his brother was slapping him around like a red-headed stepchild, but he wanted to humiliate him into stopping, not kill him outright. The PC, however, went right for the throat and cut him in half when he tried to duck behind a pillar.
He also cut the pillar in half, too.
Realizing that he was an Anathema, he promptly carved his way out of his family estate (Killing about a dozen people in the process, crippling his old trainer and narrowly avoiding a fight with his Air-Aspect mother) stole a horse and fled into the night, convinced that he was damned.
I don't know, man. This was such a weird story arc. The other two sessions had the PCs sort of 'settling into' their new role. This one was just a hack-and-slash murderfest.
(more)
>>47001569
Nah, it's in art/layout though, and obviously much smaller than the core so hopefully not to much longer - month max?. Highly doubt we'll get the pirated art debacle as well.
>>47001556
The system I use is just go through the character generation process as normal. Total everyone's experience values then give the lower XP people enough to match the higher XP people. Or just have a set XP total you want everyone to be at so everyone gets at least a little bit.
The XP you gain from the disparity can't be used to be more Charms as a general rule since rarely does the XP discrepancy come from Charm selection since everyone usually picks 15 Favored Charms or maybe 1 or 2 non-Favored which would only cause a 2-4xp disparity.
>>47001573
>Dawn Caste
>hack-and-slash murderfest.
A-yup
>>47001463
>Basically, if a 2e book says "mortal thaumaturge", pretend it says "mortal sorcerer".
I appreciate the thought: it is true that sorcery has taken thaumaturgy place in theme, and vice-versa, but this particular rule is a tidbit more complicated, because:
1: Sorcery is far rare.
2: There is certain places in Creation that specifically collect thaumaturge and thaumaturgy rituals. It is not simple, every single of those thaumaturge needs to have the Spark, whatever it is, but it is basically how Sijan handle exorcism and how some guilds do magic working.
>>47001601
That's probably simpler than all the mathing I'm doing trying to fit a number sequence that fits all the necessary criteria.
>>47001602
After many sessions I've finally achieved true Dawn enlightenment.
I'm such a combat monkey the ST doesn't even make me roll Join Battle for almost everything. They just assume I win.
>>47001573
It was almost ludicrous how powerful the PC was. When he took his brother's daiklaive and his armor, all attacks just bounced off his parry and his soak, and he killed everyone he ran into.
The player's escape was just really violent, because he behaved like a cornered rat in a trap. According to the PC, he realized that there was no turning back and he had to get out no matter what. Never mind that he was actually fighting people he had literally grown up with. I'm actually understanding how much damage he did BY HIMSELF as a guy with a good weapon and armor. Nothing stopped him.
It's just this strange, bloody, loose-end that ends with him running away and riding off as if hell was on his heels.
It just seems like it sort of goes against the game's themes. He really killed a LOT of people in an unstoppable rampage, and was basically at full bonfire for everything after the duel. There wasn't much room for characterization, he just made increasingly desperate and increasingly bloody attempts to escape, before the PC went "Fuck it, I can actually just kill anyone in my way."
>>47001601
With the bp/xp game I let people make their characters, and go "but if you do it THIS way, you get the same stuff but with two spare bp/ability points to play with, what do you want?".
Giving them some extra XP at chargen is also an option
>>47001608
Please, please, please, not another "how common are sorcerers?" shitfest.
>>47001620
And I may push my own creation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pfjmZKzcUqAX9mB58IAEUIFkZr8rq4CvdRRM4kzwwgU/edit?usp=sharing
Takes care of all the calculation for you.
>>47001573
If the player wanted to restrain themselves more but the mechanics forced a lethal attack to the death, then I think 3e changes that too.
When taking out all of someone's health levels with Lethal damage, they aren't automatically dead, it's up to the attacker and ST to determine if they were captured alive, humiliated, wounded, or killed.
This allows players to go all out with their abilities, without accidentally killing people they didn't mean to.
Also Dawns got really shafted in 2e because of their caste ability selection, 3e fixed that with a wider selection and the supernal skill making them the best fighters.
>>47001641
It's /tgexalted/ 's http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetBackdraft
>>47001641
They are rarer than thaumaturgists. Otherwise there would be no points in underpowered rituals than can only be taught to people with the Spark when people with the Spark are outnumbered 10 to 1 by people that can throws lightning and banish ghosts with but a thought.
If Sijan uses thaumaturgists and not sorcerers to handle exorcism, even thought thaumaturgy is not a sure way to exorcise something, it's because thaumaturgists are still far more than sorcerers. It's basic math and logic.
>>47001632
Dawns are pretty much always going to be capable of that, unless they're against equivalent opposition. The difference is, in Third Edition, that guy would have had a whole stack of intimacies towards the people he's attacking, which would have given them a mechanical lever to use in talking him down, or at least would have resulted in him stacking up limit for violating them, which you, as the Storyteller, could use to drive him into a cathartic expression of his grief and self-loathing at a narratively-appropriate time.
>>47001637
Yeah, that's what I do now, but that results in all characters being 5/5/1 5/3/1 5/1/1, every ability being either 1, 3 or 5, etc. Seems really artificial and boring - you're being mechanically disincentivized to create a rounded, balanced character - which is something most systems go out of their way to encourage, so you *don't* end up just playing a stereotype.
>>47001642
Hey character sheet anon, did you get my updates? >>46985854
>>47001663
Yeah, the PC doesn't need all of those skills, right? It seems pointless to do anything except focus on a single ability (PC has Melee 5 - Swords) because all the Charm trees are separate.
It's ridiculous how much better he is at fighting than the others. The Zenith was mostly fighting zombies, but when it came to the Deathknights, he had a slapfight with them that came down to both parties jabbing at each other until one landed a lucky hit. The Night Caste was actually quite badly hurt after he had the fight with the cultists and the demons.
This guy was just mowing through people. Surprise attacks, combination attacks, whatever. He swung, they exploded.
>>47001463
>>47001454
I'll consider it, but I've just barely managed to teach my players how 2E works. I'll talk to them about the swap, and if the swap comes up I'll see what I can do for the fourth player.
>>47001720
Again 3E means that combat isn't a binary choice between boring curbstomps and boring no-hit flailing at each other. BP/XP still exists but doesn't matter as much.
>>47001721
Oh thanks, I didn't see that earlier. Looks like a few Keywords and Type changes.
>>47001755
We understand the difficulty in getting groups to change, but we've all experienced how much a difference 3rd edition made to have Exalted be fun to actually play without taking 4 hours on a boring fight.
>>47001720
Yeah, I made sure he built up Limit for, well, murdering people he was friends with. There wasn't any social combat or so on, because the player didn't really have any options. He has high Appearance but only average social skills for the others.
Also, it's not like there was anything he could be talked back to do. He was completely convinced it was "Escape or die." (To be honest, it went off the rails right after he killed his brother. I thought that he'd just knock the guy unconscious, but he killed him to loot his daiklaive and armor.)
Another thing I've noticed is that you only really need an Artifact Weapon and maybe Artifact armor. Then you're set for life. They were just insanely better than the chopping sword and armor he was wearing before.
>>47001663
It's actually just up to the ST, and even if the character who was struck down isn't outright dead, he *is* still dying, implying that he *will* die if he doesn't get professional medical aid very soon.
Do Whitewall's walls block demons too, or just fae and undead?
>>47001755
If you want to see ex3 run well before you decide if it's worth swapping to, you could watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiS0McnLDI6Q0PmHK9Z7W61UCjzx9HN2r
It's really engaging and entertaining to watch, they play so well, the rules just flow smoothly after the players get a hang of it.
Also no one mentioned that ex3 massively improved on the social system too, making it feel like a realistic argument persuading someone based on things they care about, instead of a word fight. That combined with how important Intimacies are, leads to really great roleplaying.
>>47001716
>They are rarer than thaumaturgists. Otherwise there would be no points in underpowered rituals than can only be taught to people with the Spark when people with the Spark are outnumbered 10 to 1 by people that can throws lightning and banish ghosts with but a thought.
Unless they're just non-overlapping. You can have Thaumaturges who don't have the Intelligence or Occult necessary to make a proper sorcerer, and you can have Sorcerers who don't have the spark for Thaumaturgy. The idea that someone can always just choose one or the other is absurd.
But honestly, we're given literally no guidelines on how rare or common Sorcerers and Thaumaturges are. It's up to the GM in each and every case.
I'm not saying Sorcery is more common than Thaumaturgy - it's almost definitely not. But that reason is probably more a lack of education and access to Shaping Rituals than any hard limitation on how many people actually have the potential to someday gain access to the mystical arts.
>>47001806
Careful, limit is not designed as a stick to beat the *player* with, it's for epic hero tantrums like achilles in his tent (which I think sucks for a multiplayer RPG, but I digress).
If your player is being a dick to other players, talk to them as adults about it outside the game one on one in the context of the social contract - much easier for misunderstandings.
>>47001716
And albeit I will concede that the wording used in 3E is incredibly vague, and seem to imply that sorcerers are more numerous than thaumaturgists when read a certain way, I would simply throw that with the Craft section in the trashbin. Terminal stupidity does not a good setting make.
If sorcerers were more numerous than thaumaturge (or indeed, equal in number), then thaumaturgy just cease to exist as anything even remotely relevant to the setting. Sijan would use sorcerers, mortal guilds of craftmen would use sorcerers, everybody would use sorcerers instead of guys who can double a piece of bread once per day.
>>47001846
Fair point, but I don't see how that related to that person's game, they were talking about a pc killing their npc friends and family.
>>47001855
>guys who can double a piece of bread once per day
Until they run out of Willpower, actually, which tends to be the limit on Sorcery too.
>>46984042
Does anyone think that Exalted would be better if it used the nWoD attributes instead of the oWoD attributes?
Wouldn't be hard to convert it over. Use Merits to represent being pretty or having sharp eyes, base Guile on Composure and Resolve on, well, Resolve. Change either of the names if that doesn't suit. On the same topic, probably keep the name Charisma rather than Presence, so you don't end up rolling Presence + Presence. That might get away from the old issue of only ever needing one social attribute, although it does nothing to dethrone Dexterity as the God-King of all physical endeavour.
>>47001846
>>47001880
Whoops misread, my bad
>>47001916
>Does anyone think that Exalted would be better if it used the nWoD attributes instead of the oWoD attributes?
Not really, no. In all the time I've played nWoD, I've never seen Resolve or Composure used for anything other than calculating Willpower or resisting supernatural powers. I like the IDEA of Power/Finesse/Resistance stats in Mental/Physical/Social columns, but the end result is skewed dramatically towards the active Attributes of Power/Finesse rather than the passive Resistance.
It's the same reason why Dexterity and Strength tend to be way higher priority to people in Exalted than Stamina.
>>47001806
>I thought that he'd just knock the guy unconscious, but he killed him to loot his daiklaive and armor.)
Did that do him much good? I vaguely remember there being nasty penalties for attuning to artifacts of the wrong material - that's why Fivefold Harmonic Adapters were a thing.
Also, yeah, the gear treadmill isn't much of a thing in Exalted. Your supposed to have an emotional-spiritual bond with your weapon, not just chuck it when you stumble across something with a bigger plus. Growth in Exalted is more in terms of scale - you don't find new weapons, you conquer larger regions, recruit more powerful allies, overthrow larger governments, and suchlike.
>>47001911
Once per day reliably. One willpower per night sleep.
>>47001965
...and another Willpower per two-point stunt they perform, if they're a heroic enough mortal to access stunts.
By the same token, every Sorcerous Spell costs at least one Willpower. Usually 2+. If you assume the only Willpower they're getting is from their nightly sleep, Sorcerers have even less access to their spells than Breadman does to his bread trick.
>>47001960
In 3E you do get evocations now, so there is still scope for growth in power.
Also anons, do you think a Crafter should be able to reforge a party members weapon up to a 5 dot while still keeping its existing evocations?
>>47002002
>Sorcerers have even less access to their spells than Breadman does to his bread trick.
Yes, and? What is your point?
Mister breadman can bread twice more often than mister sorcerer can fly in the air, decimate armies, control your body, or summon a demon. I am impressed.
>>47002005
>Also anons, do you think a Crafter should be able to reforge a party members weapon up to a 5 dot while still keeping its existing evocations?
Absolutely not. Doing that is making a brand new weapon using the old one as raw materials.
>>47002005
That's less about a loot treadmill and more about their character growth being tied to their bond and mastery of a weapon, than their training in a particular skill like other characters.
It works for character concepts based on their iconic weaponry.
>>47002033
If you're crafting a weapon or armour, how do you decide what dot rating it should be? how do you deice what kind of Evocations warrant a certain amount of dots?
>>47002005
Yeah, but that's practically the same as learning new charms, its not like D&Ds loot treadmill, where weapons are disposable, because you'll be needing a +4 one next level.
>>47002005
They could modify and improve the weapon, but not a full reforging.
>>47001960
Shit, I forgot about that entirely. He just minimum-attuned it, but I left the bonus stats for Jade in the weapon statistics. I'll have to remember that for next time.
>>47002080
>If you're crafting a weapon or armour, how do you decide what dot rating it should be? how do you deice what kind of Evocations warrant a certain amount of dots?
100% asspull. There are ZERO guidelines in the book other than 'higher dots are more power.'
>>47002098
3e drops the bonuses and penalties for wrong materials.
>>47002101
That's what I was afraid of. IIRC, a charge Craftsnerd ca crank out 3 dot artefacts quickly and easily. Lets of Arms of the Chosen has something good in store for us.
>>47002033
Ok, should a dot rating limit the overall weapons evocation? Like you can't add another evocation or one of that strength due to the dot rating?
Kind of like the idea of a Solar can overcome a weapon's limitations - like this in the Wind Waker https://youtu.be/6Tpb3cUPnCs?t=4m10s
>>47002138
>Ok, should a dot rating limit the overall weapons evocation?
They changed how Evocations work in 3e from the leak. Every weapon has more or less the exact same number of evocations - about 4-7 of them - with Artifact rating instead affecting their power.
Go look at the sample weapons in the 3e core book. You run out of Evocations at any given Essence score real quick, and most of them top out at Essence 3-4.
>>47002005
I'm thinking No. The evocations will be different. Maybe similar in theme in some ways, but they should function differently.
That said, I like the principle of XP never being a bad investment. If a player loses access to something they spent XP on (a working, an evocation), they should get the XP back. Retraining to use the artifact's reforged nature should take time but not waste XP.
>>47002002
>two-point stunt
Pet peeve, but these really should not be reliable.
>>47002002
>If you assume the only Willpower they're getting is from their nightly sleep
Every time a sorcerer correctly casts a spell, they get a free point of Willpower. p468
Willpower: Most spells cost at least one point of
Willpower, as it takes a significant investment of the
sorcerer’s will to grasp and wield the Essence of the
cosmos. This cost must be paid up front, when the
sorcerer first begins shaping the spell.
If the spell is cast
successfully, the realization of the sorcerer’s design
fulfills her, restoring one point of Willpower spent
to fuel the spell.
If the spell is lost, aborted, or countered,
then all spent Willpower is simply lost.
You can sit at the back of a battlefield and throw FotBRs all day until the enemy run away or geek the mage first. God damn but Sorcerers need to be rare.
>>47002098
Hey, bonus, "if" you need to convince DawnPlayer to convert over to 3e, you can point out that those penalties aren't a thing any more.
>>47002164
Yes, but is that a hard limit on custom artifacts, or just a reflection of needing to cut space in the core? I guess Arms of the Chosen will include evocation guidelines.
>>47002184
>If the spell is cast
>successfully, the realization of the sorcerer’s design
>fulfills her, restoring one point of Willpower spent
>to fuel the spell.
Most spells cost 2+ Willpower to cast. That's only a partial refund.
I want to make a character who is really good at sorcery. Any advice, exg?
>>47002187
A hard limit. Artifacts don't have tomes worth of evocations anymore. They're more like a small Martial Art in terms of total shit you can learn.
Artifact rating just affects Evocation power now.
>>47002123
The session was kind of a shitfest, to be honest. The Eclipse caste is next, but the player hates the Eclipse caste skill list. He was like "Ride? Sail? Bureacracy? Linguistics? The fuck is this shit?"
>>47002213
Intelligence 5, Occult 5, Specialty (Sorcery), the Sorcery charms, and as many tools and Means as you can buy. Ancient Tongue Understanding, if you want a scene-long +1 Success dice adder. Supernal Control Method for a once-per-scene free Occult Excellency.
And there's nothing else that affects Sorcery.
>>47002184
>>47001855
A good rule of thumb is:
In a given tribe of good size, there is at least two thaumaturges: the current shaman, and his apprentice. A shaman is a thaumaturge with exorcism and one or two other thaumaturgy of small potency.
In a big city, there is one sorcerer for dozens of thaumaturges. Large city tends to have no sorcerers, or one: very large can have two or three sorcerers, but that's the limit.
>>47001234
Presumably because the prayer of human beings, even the rebelling ones, was necessary for the functioning of Yu Shan and therefore Creation. Annihilating humanity, those prayer batteries with the over-developed consciousnesses that were worthless individually, would probably cripple Creation as a whole and cause a massive fucking mess as all sorts of shit goes extinct (including favored races like the Lintha) while they created a replacement race. If they tried to create a replacement race while the war was ongoing, then the Exalts probably swooped in and managed to destroy their attempt before its completion. So the only choice was to win the war.
This is just what I'm inferring from what we know about the workings of Creation as well as the details of the Primordial War, however.
