Has there ever been a setting in which Gnomes aren't hot garbage?
Arcanum.
My setting.
>>46977817
Athas in Dark Sun.
>>46977817
The Witcher.
Gnomish smiths of Mount Carbon make the finest sword on all the Continent; the Gwyhyr.
Or at least they used to, but the knowledge needed to make them has been lost thanks to Humans being dicks.
>>46977974
literally any other race could do the same if trained by the same way..
Smiothing isn't easier for them than other race (if anything it's much harder given their overall muscle mass)
>>46978088
It's just that Witcher gnomes are basically dwarves without the hidebound conservatism. You could pretty much make Mount Carbon a different dwarven nation.
It's the thing desu I have with 5e's gnomes; it's pretty much just there so you don't have to have a Dwarf and a Halfling subrace that breaks their +Con or +Dex theme (and you could just make them as +Int Dwarf/Halfling anyway)
4e making them the short version of elves wasn't so bad. But on the whole there's a glut of short races in modern d&d inspired shit.
>>46977817
In that Kingdoms of Amalur game they appeared to more or less take the place of dwarves; they were brilliant creators and engineers and traders, but actually still doughty warriors (they had this feared group of fighters called the Praetorians who directly served their government).
>>46978088
Well Gnomish smith in the Witcher relied on pneumatic hammers rather than muscle, but the real trick was the use of alchemical equipment to create unique metal alloys.
Those techniques have been lost.
>>46978182
Yeah, gnomes in the Witcher basically made the best swords on Earth for the reasons we make can make functional swords in modern day on average better then any ancient civilization on Earth could; they actually understood chemistry and metallurgy as sciences rather then the trial and error process the vaguely late medieval culture of the Northern Kingdoms has going on with it's smithing.
>>46977817
Eberron.
Seriously, you don't fuck with the Trust.
>>46977915
That's not fair, everything and everyone in that game was oozing with pure writing prowess.
I like the ones from Dwarf Fortress. They're basically alcoholic gremlins that constantly try to sneak into your booze supply. The dark ones are so obsessed with alcohol that they'll try to steal your flasks and drink whole kegs even as you're slicing their limbs off.
>>46977974
So they made them less shit by making them dwarves?
Listen here you gigantic shit.
>>46977915
Gnomes in Arcanum are pure evil though.
>>46977915
In arcanum they are Soros-tier conspiracy jews
>>46977817
/TG civ quests.
>>46977817
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. Well, here they are big-nosed beardless dorfs...
>>46979568
Does Soros organize industrial gradeeugenicsandrape factories?
>>46977932
Tell me about your gnomes?
>>46979586
If it will bring him more profit and control he surely will... or already did, who knows
>>46977817
Making Gnomes not shit is tricky because they're usually just used by closet pedophiles who only rarely make them meaningfully different from dwarves.
Their only contribution is usually just being small, childish looking adults that generally do things that could just as well be handled by dwarves or goblins.
>>46977817
Original EverQuest did Gnomes right.
>>46978161
>Kingdoms of Amalur
damn that game had a lot of potential for spin offs and world building. Fucking EA
>>46979656
True, my brother. KoAR is cool and could be much cooler. But EA is EA.
>>46977817
>not playing your gnomes as xenophobic pint-sized cave-borne cannibals that invade lawns and then houses
>not having them erect bloody effigies out of enemy severed body parts, derisively called "lawn gnomes", in front of their moats
>not having them all wear pointy hats, the colors and patterns of which indicate the gnome's clan
>not having sacrifices by fire
>not having the little buggers sneak into people's homes at night, tie them down Gulliver style and devour them alive with their filed teeth
>>46979716
>my ebin trope subversion is so original everyone should do it
>>46978088
Gnomes get bonuses to craft or profession in many games
I personally would describe them as they are in Scandinavian folklore (Tomte/tonttu). Small folk who live hidden in your home ( for example, in sauna ) and get pissy if not treated properly. Immensely strong despitr their short stature. They do take care of the house, but don't get on theor bad side.
>>46977817
I kind of want to have sex with a female gnome now.
>>46979979
Aren't those brownies? Or are my myths getting mixed up again? Quite likely, either way.
>>46977817
No. They're shit in most systems and if by some miracle they're designed properly, players will inevitably describe their gnome snowflake as "like a dwarf but..." or "kinda sorta halfling inspired, except..."
I got so tired of PC Gnome retardation that in my latest setting gnomes are a myth perpetuated by the dwarves in order to sell their shit at a higher markup to people no longer impressed by "dwarven craftsmanship".
>>46979553
Only some of them. Others are just white collar workers who did nothing wrong.
>>46977817
No,
>LESMALLBUTSMART
race is never good.
>>46980852
They're never good because the Hero™ always has to triumph through martial skill, so gnomes never get to play to their strengths. The balance of power in Warcraft would be very different if gnomes ever got to actually use their planes and mechs and superweapons, instead of just handing them off to Heroic™ human officers who don't know how to drive.
>>46977817
They're basically tiny humans with proportionate strength and reach, they simply shouldn't be good at anything comparatively.
>>46977817
Absolutely.
There's a few settings where they live in the colder regions.
>>46981264
in warcraft's case gnomes could be made interesting if they gave up on biological reproduction and instead focused entirely on regressing their species to its mechanical form and just constructing new members
>>46981264
>They're never good because the Hero
No they're never good because they have the rank smell of overcompensation and enforced equality.
>>46981325
Warcraft gnomes could be made interesting if not for the fact that the writers don't give a single solitary crap about them. They'll throw in the odd nameless gnome mechanic as a background NPC, but whenever the Alliance actually has a cool vehicle (like the Skybreaker or the Vashj'ir submarine) it'll be piloted by another race.
That, or they'll be used as comedy cannon fodder like the Katamari Damacy quest in Uldum, because le ebin gnome punting.
>>46981332
>enforced equality
As opposed to what? They're not real, any equality between fictional species is enforced by definition.
>>46981332
I don't hear anyone complaining about goblins.
Or kobolds, for that matter.
>>46977817
no and i hope there never is because the only reason i play gnomes is for the hot garbage
Why do people hate gnomes so much? The only valid complaint I see is that they're too much like dwarves and halflings, but let's face it: dwarves and halflings are boring as fuck. Drop them from the setting and nothing of value will be lost.
>>46981395
At least Warcraft has the best goblins. It's just a shame they're fighting with gnomes over largely the same niche in the same setting and goblins just kind of crush it. It wouldn't be such a big deal if most goblins weren't neutral so each side had a tinker race to call its own.
Overlord gnomes are best.
>>46977817
Goosebumps.
>>46981395
to be fair that's just because the warcraft writers are physically incapable of writing anything thats not an orc, human or undead
>>46981417
>As opposed to what?
As opposed to them being just another race of beings.
>>46981424
>I don't hear anyone complaining about goblins.
Goblins at least have other stuff going for them.
>Or kobolds, for that matter.
Kobolds are fine, they're not a race of geniuses just to balance out that they're small.
>>46981439
That doesn't really make an argument for gnomes.
>>46977817
Pic related.
>>46977817
Return to Oz had proper gnomes.
Berserk has proper gnomes.
Nothing else does though.
>>46977951
>setting where Gnomes are extinct.
>>46978215
>implying most modern swords aren't unwieldly shit.
You are absolutely correct that advanced knowledge of metallurgy and modern production facilities would allow for amazing weapons.
Unfortunately, we lack battlefield feedback and the entire concept of balancing and appropriate weight has been rebuild from the ground up. Often by idjits who have no idea what a sword made for combat should feel like in hand.
Having modern knowledge and facilities with battlefield feedback and the knowledge of how swords are actually supposed to be balanced would lead to magnificent arms. Sadly, we seem to only get one or the other.
>>46981446
They can't even do goblins right anymore. They've been nothing but a shitty excuse to make pop culture refrences since cata announced the IP's downfall.
>>46977817
I actually like Warcraft gnomes. They really went all out on the engineering/tinkering aspect, and the only reason they weren't the most powerful race in the setting is because their own hubris in scientific advancement has fucked over most of their civilization with good old fashioned toxic waste.
DESU I like them in default D&D as well. For a subterranean race, they're the most magically oriented choice, and are a great race if you're an Underdark fan like me.
>>46979598
Since I mostly play PF but always use custom settings and I have a lot of funky racial variants.
Such as Dwarf/Azer hybrid called Ignians who worship migratory giant fire elementals alongside more traditional style of mountain dwellers.
Where dwarves are the blacksmiths and halflings are semi-nomadic storytellers and musicians, Gnomes are the master craftsmen. But unlike most variations of D&D that have gnomes as another small race my gnomes are one of the only tiny-sized race available for characters to pick. Multiple Gnomes often work together to craft a single object, of which will be extremely fine quality with an exceptional level of detail. Dwarves might be excellent shapers of metal and stone, but their work looks downright crude compared to Gnome work.
They sort of work like The Borrowers or the story of The Elves and the Shoemaker, but the tiny cobblers and craftsfolk are an important part of civilization, except for Wild Gnomes.
Dwarves get bonus Wisdom, Halflings Charisma and Gnomes have increased Intelligence.
There is a schism among the Gnomes, though many work and own property (Usually built on the roofs of businesses they work for.) there are also wild Gnomes who use their cunning minds to avoid detection from the big folk.
These Gnomes always for relationships with animal companions which serve as their mounts. Gnomes often wear camouflage and try to avoid being seen by big folk. If you are ever seen by a big folk, you are forever banished from your tribe. Although this seems like such a huge punishment that no Gnome would ever risk being seen, even Wild Gnomes are curious and young Gnomes sometimes make games out of messing with big folk without being seen.
Hot gnomes?
>>46983142
So stop trying to reproduce sissy Italian shit and get back to quality weapons like thefalx.
>>46977817
Anything where they're not just short elves, slender dwarves, or lolwacky.
>>46979618
You can say this about pretty much every non-dorf short race (and dorfs, if you go with dwarven women being shortstacks instead of indistinct from the men). They come from similar mythologies and have a lot of fantasy overlap.
Gnomes get it the hardest because they tend to either be tinker Jews or loli Rom: Dwarves are already smithy Scottish Jews and Halflings have moved from British peasants (Hobbits) to loli Rom (D&D post 3e). Add that to the fact that most fantasy is afraid to move past the low Middle Ages, much less get to the Renaissance or beyond, and they don't get to have their tinker gimmick. If you make them more racial stereotype, you risk either triggering tumblrites and/or going full /pol/.
Pathfinder did something vaguely cool by making them hew the closest to the fae mythic reference stew, turning them into something akin to yokai.
>>46987732
Aren't they fairies in D&D these days? I remember them being denizens of the ~feywild~ who could turn invisible when they cropped up in 4th.
I mean if gnomes are to elves as dwarves are to humans, that's a playable niche right there.
>>46977974
You forgot to say that in Witcher,gnomes are ridiculously good and fast at throwing stuff
>>46987481
>Girl cosplaying Teemo
>Not even a gnome
Nice try
>>46980356
there's a ton of myths involving tiny people that lived in your house and helped with housework and got pissy if you mistreated them
>>46981439
Pretty much any niche a gnome is in is already filled by dwarves and halflings. They're not visually unique enough either to constitute a 3rd short race.
>>46977915
Half Ogre island was one of the most memorable quests I've ever done. I loved the gnomes in Arcanum, there was nothing physical that made them special. They were just canny, pragmatic peoples that succeeded in life by being like little jews.
