>>46977734
Ghostwalk?
Role Aids: Undead also has a horrorish setting although I guess it's closer to a Mordor clone.

Ravenloft

>>46977734
I have to say, this game is fucking awesome. Am I the only one who noticed that one of the enemies are a Runequest reference?

>>46977734
Ravenloft is a D&D fantasy setting that is entirely based around the concept of Gothic Horror fantasy.
It's less Dark Souls (which is really just a VERY Dark Fantasy akin to Berserk with the fantasy monsters being realistically scary looking then cartoonish and over designed like 90% of most fantasy art is) and more Bloodborne, but the themes of horror, isolation, paranoia, madness, and the price of evil is a major theme of the setting itself.

>>46977808
Miyazaki tends to endlessly pepper his games with references, both subtle and obvious, so it doesn't at all surprise me.

>>46977833
Isn't the world in Dark Souls like full-on post-apocalypse? As in the entire world has been overrun by demons and the undead, or is that just the parts we see?

>>46977871
DaS1 is per-apocalyptic
DaS2 is non-apocalyptic
DaS3 is mid-apocalyptic

>>46977833
>isolation, paranoia, madness
These really aren't universal in Ravenloft, they're kind of concentrated in certain domains (like the Nightmare Lands)

>>46977871
The third one this is true, but the prior two you are placed at the locations of dying ancient kingdoms.
It's still Dark Fantasy, which is not bad thing. "Scary monsters" is not Horror, and neither is post-apocalyptic.
Ultimately you spend a lot of time fighting stylized but still recognizable fantasy monsters that are scary as fuck not just because they look more harmful but because for once in a fantasy game you are FULLY AWARE of how fragile you are and out physically outclassed you are, which is almost never the case in videogames period, let alone fantasy ones. Think of it as the absolute grimmest and most bleak D&D campaign setting ever and you aren't too far off.

Horror is a bit different and relies on themes that Dark Souls touches upon (Artorias of the Abyss does it a lot) but mostly doesn't do much with because by admission of the series creator he feels it clashes too strongly with what he's already focusing on, namely the theme of endlessly fighting a loosing battle against the dying of the world.
Much like Berserk (a ridiculously obvious influence on the series) the themes and setting are bleak as hell and terrible places to be (though I'd agree Souls is considerably bleaker), but they only touch upon horror themes.

>>46977946
>These really aren't universal in Ravenloft, they're kind of concentrated in certain domains (like the Nightmare Lands)

I personally try to avoid all the "IMPORTANT NPC MUST USE" in lots of Ravenloft edition stuff because it basically deliberately limits the kind of stories you can tell even within the already thematically difficult Gothic Horror genre, which is a pretty stupid idea in general when you're making a setting.
The paranoia angle comes from tried and true methods of detecting evil no longer working and how ANYONE could in theory be the domain's Dark Lord, though unfortunately fans all have who is in charge of what completely memorized.

>>46977990
>The paranoia angle comes from tried and true methods of detecting evil no longer working

Yeah but the PCs have no real way of knowing that.

>>46977808
Which one is that? I'm only halfway through the game, but I haven't run into any anthropomorphic ducks.

>>46978039
Unless they're idiots they figure it out pretty quick. But quite frankly gaming with idiots seems to be an active problem amongst folks on /tg/ so that might indeed be problematic.

>>46978074
No Ducks, but.
near Farron Keep you run into these creatures called the Ghru, who are a race of degenerate goat-people who attack with poisoned weapons. Now if you are familiar with Runequest, you may recall some creatures called the Broo who are a degenerate race of goat people who attack with poisoned weapons. They also reproduce by raping human women and having their offspring burst out like a chestburster but we don't talk about that part.

>>46977990
>ANYONE could in theory be the domain's Dark Lord, though unfortunately fans all have who is in charge of what completely memorized.
I find this annoying too, if I ever run Ravenloft I'm just gonna make up my own domain.

>>46978099
>Okay, so you as you arrive, you spot the cultist sacrifying a baby to the dark god
>"I cast detect evil"
>You don't have that spell, remember?
>"Then I call them out."
>They all take out their knives and start running toward you.
>"I'm not sure if they're hostile or not."
>They yell "Blood for the god of the Flesh!"
>"Mmm, they might not be friendly."

>>46978114
>I find this annoying too, if I ever run Ravenloft I'm just gonna make up my own domain.

I do that all the time, and frequently use monsters that have nothing to do with the local Darklord and his domain and instead treat the setting as a Horror Fantasy farm I can use with lots of horrible little bits I can choose and puck from.
Delightfully, my current 5e group is quite good at running with the Gothic themes and generally being into the scary shit and thus all wanted me to GM Ravenloft.

>>46978409
Watch the Jacob's Ladder and House on Haunted Hill for inspiration.

>>46978427
Seen both, don't need too.
I've actually GMed Ravenloft before, just not with this group and this edition and certainly not with a group this new to D&D, but I'll be damned if they aren't good at getting into the right mindset.

>>46978438
>don't need too
Bullshit, you always need to watch scary movies.

>>46978450
Well I don't have either.
Besides we're doing werewolf stuff right now...kinda.

>>46978463
Then you need to watch An American Werewolf in London.

And maybe play Skyrim. The game is overall average, but playing a werewolf in it is so awesome.

>>46978483
Seen it, played it. And like I said, it's not that kind of werewolf story. At the risk of spoiling it for my players who come in here sometimes I'll elaborate;
While there ARE werewolves and the party has faced at least one, they aren't actually the problem or main villain of this particular adventure. The villain is a helpful chirurgist who is actually actively taking the natural-born werewolves children from their den in the forest and draining them of blood after forcing them to transform and doing horrific experiments on them to help them understand the "scientific process of the change" that he might use their improved vitality to cure disease and illnesses. He's experimenting on homeless people, the mad, and volunteers coming in for "experimsntal new treatments" to see which of his diluted blood-chemical formulas will work and it's turning most of them into bestial half-werewolf freaks that aren't properly werewolves or people, sorta akin to the classic wolf-man. He views these as "acceptable failures in the name of science" and refuses to believe that the magical nature of the lycanthropy curse isn't going to be fixed by some blood-therapy. Meanwhile the natural-born werewolves are killing across town trying to find him and their stolen children and confusing the matter for the party. I got the idea reading about "cutting edge" 19th century medical treatments for the insane that by today's standards are awfully horrific and inhumane.

>>46978597
>I got the idea reading about "cutting edge" 19th century medical treatments
Hahaha you poor fucker.
>treatment by temperature
>basically giving a feverish patient a ice bath
Enjoy your fucking nightmares you poor fucker. And that's the mild one.

>>46977946
The fuck do those prefixes mean in this context?

>>46978644
Yeah, I got the idea of the plot when some fucking quack basically thought that by replacing the "diseased" blood of a mentally ill patient who recently became symptomatic of his mental illness would remove the "inflammation of the brain" because obviously something bar got into their system to make them change, right?

Basically just 19th century leeching but if you attach big words to it suddenly it's all better!

>>46978685
Wasn't there a cutting-edge Sherlock Holmes story where a scientist devolved into a monkey man because he gave himself a transfusion from one?
Fucking A, that's also Bloodborne.

>>46978685
>replacing the "diseased" blood of a mentally ill patient who recently became symptomatic of his mental illness would remove the "inflammation of the brain" because obviously something bar got into their system to make them change
Well, to be optimistic, at least they improve since the Middle Ages.
Back then they used to take your blood off, but they didn't replaced it.

>>46978701
Give or take a helpful but misguided Elder God Thing that just wants to help humans but keeps accidentally driving them crazy with knowledge they can't handle, sure.

>>46978709
Technically speaking it was an important step in learning blood transfusion and compatible blood types and shit like that, but basically it was us assuming that they could fix psychological problems through judicious application needles and tubes and misguided optimism.

>>46978715
>people worshipping Kos have eyes everywhere
>DLC reveals that Kos, or some say Kosm, doesn't have eyes at all and thus has no idea where they should be
I like the idea of a friendly elder god who tries to help but is completely misunderstood.

>>46978724
Yeah, that was "throw things at the wall and see what sticks" kind of science.

>>46978731
>Yeah, that was "throw things at the wall and see what sticks" kind of science.
The only real kind of science. The "scientific method" that they teach you in HS is even just a formalized version of that.

>>46977734
So, having played the game twice.. I still have no idea what is with those tree people and I guess those flying tree root insects they become towards the end of the game? What the heck is that about?

>>46978754
People with the dark sigil turning into new archtrees imo.

>>46978751
At least the scientific method doesn't rely on painful and horrible experiments.
I could babble about how lobotomies were handled during the Cold War for a while before people figured out it was a terrible idea.

>>46978597
Play Bloodborne.

>>46978731
Well Kos (or some say Kosm) has also been dead for decades and her child was taken and likely dissected by the Byrgenworth scholars to gain eldritch knowledge, so she likely isn't granting anyone shit.
And even if she IS responsible granting Vacuous Rom eyes and turning him into...that thing, he was awfully helpful about being a freaky elder god and tried to keep the Nightmare and the Hunter's Moon from making everything worse.

>>46978795
I though it was the Moon Presence who decided everything Hunter-related?

>>46978780
Oh, it has werewolves?
All I hear about is elder god shit.

>>46978811
The normal humans affected by the blood either turn into wendigos or into werewolves.

>>46978805
A Hunter's Moon is just want you call a big orange enlarged moon like that, also called (appropriately) a Blood Moon.
And it seems that aside from Gerhman there's only ever one Hunter in the Dream at any given time given how many ex-Hunter's we meet talk about how "they used to dream too" in reference to Hunting.
If you mean about Rom protecting Yharnam from the affects of the Blood Moon and the Nightmare of Mensis, I don't believe she is working with Hunters or the Moon Presence/Flora to prevent that shit from happening, I think she does it on her own because the Great Ones are generally helpful in a fumbling way that doesn't account for or doesn't understand our human frailties.

Not sure what the Moon Presence's game is, but I think of think it might have to do with killing every single one of the remaining Great Ones considering that is basically what you spend the rest of the game doing anyway.

>>46978864
Huh.
I just saw crazy psychos with axes who kinda reminded me of the RE4 Ganados, lots of mumbling to themselves and screaming in tongues as they zombie-walked at you before going all axe-city.

>>46978890
These are amateurs hunters, they don't care about the blood, they just want to clean the city. And they think you're a monster too.
There are several kind of enemies, you see :
>the mob, who wants to clean the city, they's basically humans and outclassed by all the abominations
>the infected, basically turned monsters, the Cleric Beast is one, the Vicar is another,
>the hunters, they act like you. Gascoigne is one, Gehrman is another
>the varied cultists and scholars factions who have their own goal and will try to stop you. Micolash is one of these, and your original plan is to stop them,

>>46978914
I've never actually played the game much, I'm not >>46978873 guy and don't know what all you're even talking about.
I don't really have the money for a $40-odd dollar videogame these days.

>>46978930
That's why I tried to explain. There are many kind of enemies.

>>46978939
And I'm saying you're using all these names and shit I have zero context for.
Gascione, Micolash, Gerhman, Vicar, I don't know what any of that means.
I don't even know what the relevance of blood is in the game itself aside from (presumably) falling out of guys when you kill them.

>>46978952
This is the whole game, senpai. Thank me later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWHsP9XWXHE

>>46978963
Jesus that's a disturbing sound.
Is it angry or is it in pain, I genuinely can't tell.

>>46978952
>Gascione
It's Gascoigne.
>Vicar
It's a title, not a name.

>don't even know what the relevance of blood is in the game itself
Everything in this game is about blood.
If I got the plot right, humans use the elder god's blood to transform themselves into ascended being.
They also water it down a LOT and use it to cure and enhance themselves. That's why the Player Character can't die, he has the blood of the Moon Presence (a very huge thing) and is in some sort of covenant with it.
Everything boils down to blood in Bloodborne. It's the money, the estus, the titanite, and the incensitive to keep going.

>>46978997
This all sounds very complicated, and I'm guessing I should just save up the game instead of trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about piece by piece. No offense but without context it's all kinda gibberish.
Also
>humans use the elder god's blood
That sounds like a tremendously bad idea and I cannot imagine any scenario where that shit was ever gonna work out.

File: 2977218-1280x720-zpe[1].jpg (155 KB, 1280x720) Image search: [Google]

155 KB, 1280x720

>>46979030
>That sounds like a tremendously bad idea and I cannot imagine any scenario where that shit was ever gonna work out.
Turns out it doesn't, pic related.
>>46978989
They ripped audio from the game and matched it to the dog's mouth, I think.

>>46978963
That's the Vicar Amelia.

>>46979030
>This all sounds very complicated
Like all Dark Souls games, nothing is said straight.
>That sounds like a tremendously bad idea
Well, it works fine for the Player Character, that makes him stronger, faster, and unable to die.
NPCs suggest that you can't stay a hunter for long, it drains your sanity or changes you.

But basically, what happens is that when you become a Hunter, you receive special blood, which allows you to access a pocket dimension called the Hunter's Dream (like the Nexus in Demon's Souls).
As long as you can access the Hunter's Dream, you can't really die. Once you stop "dreaming" (accessing the Hunter Dream's) you're vulnerable to death.
It's suggested in the game that only one hunter at once can access it, therefore all the other characters you meet can die for real.

And the game setting (the town of Yharnam) is directed (more or less) by the Healing Church, who uses the blood to heal people of all sicknesses.
Problem is that it doesn't always work and some people turn into monsters (namely werewolves).
Depending from one's exposition to the blood, the transformation changes, which is why the Cleric Beast are stronger than the werewolf and why the Vicar Amelia is a one of a kind wendigo.
Supposely, the higher you are in the Healing Church, the stronger is the blood you receive, so the more powerful you become once you transform.

>>46978762
why the dark sigil? Isn't that a niche Londor thing? Why is the general populace of Lothric doing this? Why do you become a flying tree root insect not rooted to the ground, rather than progress like a tree?

>>46978997
>If I got the plot right, humans use the elder god's blood to transform themselves into ascended being.

You basically got it right.
It's a bit more complex then that; everyone turning into Beasts was clearly not a desirable side effect and it's not clear how much Yharnam ACTUALLY knew about and was in on what the Choir was actually up to, which seemed by necessity to exclude pretty much the whole city from their Ascension and leave the rest to become Beasts.
Laurence probably wanted just to help people using the healing properties of the Old Blood, but according to Miyazaki he was dead when the Healing Church really got underway and as a rule saints and religious figures don't get to decide how other people interpret the meanings of what they say.

>>46979105
Laurence is a real saint. Just like Ludwig, he only wanted to help.

>>46979094
>Supposely, the higher you are in the Healing Church, the stronger is the blood you receive, so the more powerful you become once you transform.

There might also be a psychological element to it we're not really putting together; it IS weird physics-defying hell-ichor shit after all.
But yeah, the more blood you use the quicker you change most probably and since while on the Hunt you are likely to use LOTS of healing blood so Hunter's probably change a lot faster and a lot more dramatically when they aren't being sustained by the Dream like a rare few lucky (or unlucky) Hunters are, though according to one item proper professional Hunters have great willpower and physical endurance and thus resist changing, though in the end it might just be prolonging the process.
There's also a lot of implication in the Old Hunters that the inherent violence humanity is capable of is responsible for how quickly you do or do not change and if you don't give in your urge to just be a savage beast you don't change as fast.

Which is honestly a pretty Gothic theme for a game with so many Lovecraftian elements.

>>46978671
DaS1 happens just before a predicted apocalypse
DaS2 happens when there's no apocalypse due for a long time
DaS3 happens during an apocalypse

>>46979198
Thanks senpai.

>>46979188
The badge that gives you access to Ludwig's Holy Blade, I think, outright states that the more you resist becoming blood-drunk the more monstrous you become when you transform. I think it has nothing to do with the source or quantity of blood, throughout the game you can see that the more people can resist the violent urges, the more fucked up they turn. Regular people become wolves, a holy saint turns into fucking rapehorse.

>>46979188
>>46979229
That explains why the Hunter becomes...

File: HzenLm7.png (374 KB, 548x493) Image search: [Google]

374 KB, 548x493

>>46979229
The Radiant Sword Badge doesn't really say that or talk about the blood in any sense at all.
Also, it never occurred to me that Ludwig basically just became a really ugly-ass version of Rapehorse but he kinda does, doesn't he?

File: annodomini.jpg (439 KB, 1156x1570) Image search: [Google]

439 KB, 1156x1570

>>46977871

There was a game about the Hell coming to Earth in the 1000 AC.
Only read some mentions about it online though.

>>46979247
http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+Hunter+Badge
I knew it was the one dropped by Cleric Beast, I just didn't know what it was,

>>46979283
Use wikidot. It's +20% cooler.

>>46979229
That's interesting, because Micolash seems to think that only surpassing the "beastly idiocy" will allow him to become an god.

>>46977734
IMO. not sure if other people think the same way.

Dark Souls as a whole would profit from a little more consistency and an overall more thightly connected plot

during every game I more or less reach the conclusion that there's no point or urgency in really doing anything, Bloodborne was a nice wind with the whole town dying around you, but in the end it becomes an abstract dreamworld clusterfuck.

Much like Dark Souls, where you don't really do anything useful, or achieve anything useful, none of the enemies have any motivation to stop you from actually linking the fire, and you end up punching big dudes for the sake of it

>no point or urgency in really doing anything
Yes. You can just sit down and wait until you become just like all other Hollows or die.
But you keep going despite all senselessness and despair.

>>46979493
Because the world is already over in Dark Souls. You walk through cities, but everyone is just standing around. No bakers, no kids running down the streets, not a single sign of life.
Bloodborn had people staying at home and being visibly scared.

>>46978754

They're called Pilgrim Butterflies, according to the Dragonslayer Armour's soul. My guess was they hatch from the corpses of the Londor pilgrims, that's why those were mass-suiciding into Lothric.

>>46979539
maybe urgency was the wrong word.

There is no rush to do anything. I see the Pilgrim Flies crowding the castle, and the Dragonslayer Armor waiting for me, but I just sit down and go cooking because there's literally no hurry, everythings fucked, and when I'm done unfucking it, it will eventually be fucked again, so the faster I solve it, the sooner I have to fix it again.

Gwyn was a moron, he should have just let the dragons be dragons.

>>46979549
That's just Lordran, to be fair. There are plenty of signs that things elsewhere are in some kind of state of functioning.

>>46979565
Kill yourself.

>>46979565

>ignore Nameless King posts

>>46979565
>Gwyn was a moron
Don't make me take off my belt, Gwyndolin.

>>46979677
He's just Aldritch's sock puppet now.

So, I have a question and an idea to run by you guys to see how good it is. It has to do with the Usurpation ending (the only one I've gotten yet), so I'll spoiler it in case anyone doesn't wanna see it.
So, what exactly is the result of the ending?
My idea on it is that the people of Londor are seeking a way to stop the maddening effects of hollowing, and they use the fire to attain this. This is mostly based on two things: the weaker one being Yuria's response when you attack her. She states that "a hollow need not be mad", pointing to the idea that the maddening aspect of hollowing are not something smiled upon in Londor.
The second of which is what that voice - I assume it's a pilgrim - says during the ending: "Make us whole". I believe that this refers to the fire, as you wrested it from the First Fire and let it sputter before your subjects approached. You would use what remains of the fire to cure the madness of the Hollows, allowing them to rule in the wake of the gods and fulfilling the prophecy of the Sable Church. By the actions of the Sable Church and Londor, we also get a peek at Kaathe's true intention: malicious, but caring of the hollows.

Also, for any of you that were confused about Anri's Marriage, you were marrying your DARK SIGILS, not yourselves. Anri was just a vessel that the assassin (another pilgrim like Yoel) was cultivating in her through drawing out Anri's true strength; this explains why Yuria said the pilgrim was accompanying Anri. Finally, Horace only needed to be disposed of so the assassin could prepare the transition of the sigils from Anri's perceived worthless vessel to your own, so you could usurp the fire.

>can't kill the tree
JUST

>>46977734
If Symbaroum hasn't been mentioned there's always Symbaroum which is pretty similar to the Souls style settings. Plus the art is fucking fantastic.

>>46979983
Do you need advice or help? Because you can only hurt him wherever you can see his big old cysts. In second phase you can also hurt its third arm.

>>46979983
Friendly reminder that despite being a massive retard, DSP killed the tree in one try. You are literally worse than DSP.

>>46979070
>>46978989
it's a real dog howl. my dogs sound just like that at times. in bloodborne they just distorted it I guess.

>>46980061
It must be fun when you're having guests home and the dog screams like that in the middle of the night.

Invite some /x/philes, just for the fun.

>>46979983
If you're talking about the thing in DS3 in the undead settlement I can't think of any advice here that isn't insulting. I know that's pretty normal for Dark Souls, but that's normally by choice. Just summon someone and they'll probably do most of the work for you

Though it does mean you should join the mound maker covenant if you haven't yet. A lot of people miss that the first time and you can't after that boss

>>46980096
nah, they only howl in a bloodcurling manner when I leave for an extended amount of time (I guess they sense it) or in the occasions where they hear a howl from the tv or something. then it might turn into a 15-minute chorus though.

>>46980117
>it might turn into a 15-minute chorus though
Like the barbershop quartet?

>>46980141
is that a bloodborne reference? I haven't played it.

>>46979102
The cycle begins anew, back to the grayness and everlasting dragons.

>>46980061
It's funny how when you raise your insight you hear children cry and all reality distorts.

>>46980155
That's a Bioshock Infinite one.

>>46980111
Yeah you can, Sirris' questline gets you the opportunity to join it again.

>>46980186
I accidentally joined the fingers and had to wait for NG+, I was so pissed

>>46980160
the greyness wasn't part of a cycle. It was an unchanging stagnant state, which out of pure coincidence sparked a flame, which started the cycle of light and dark. A return to greyness would be the end of the cycle.

>>46980229
What if the cycle was just the stone archtrees' method of reproduction?

>>46980233
A E S T H E T I C

>>46980026
>>46980111
Just did it
I was hitting the leg sac wrong

>>46980233
That is fucking beautiful. It's like those trees over in the Americas that need fire for their seeds to germinate.

>>46979455
Micolash didn't partake in the blood at all. Just like Father Willem. Ludwig went crazy with that shit.

>>46980512
Micolash didn't?
But yet he managed to create a dream on his own and even went toe-to-toe with a hunter.

Then again
>Micolash succeeded
>the 53 other people next to him failed

File: maxresdefault.jpg (60 KB, 1280x720) Image search: [Google]

60 KB, 1280x720

Darkest Dungeon is very much like Mordheim to me.

>>46979983
Summon help. If not for DPS, then for someone else for the tree to wail on. The tree's so fucking slow that you can cast Heal in between strikes if you're a cleric. Just dodge the arm and hit, then get out of range. Rinse and repeat until dead.

Took me about 5 tries desu.

>>46980171
You aren't hearing CHILDREN crying.
You're hearing Mergo cry in the nightmare, even through the filter Rom is putting on the world.

>>46980571
I always thought The One Reborn was the result of the rest of Micolash's crew trying to drag them back and make them share cosmic truth.

>>46977734
The way I felt about the setting of Dark Souls was very similar to the way I felt about the setting of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. The whole world feels.. like a giant, living, puzzle, to be explored and discovered. It feels alive. The world has changed since the ancient past, due to some vague tragedy, but no one living in the world is quite sure exactly how things got the way they are; the setting focuses more on how people living in it now react to what it has become. The world feels vast and and timeworn, with ancient, mysterious powers and entities at play. The world is filled with marvels of human suffering and courage. It gives me a feeling I haven't quite been able to achieve with any tabletop fantasy setting, to this day. Even published fantasy settings, like those by J.R.R. Tolkien and George R.R. Martin don't give me anything close to what I get from a Souls game. Perhaps I'm still waiting for the right storyteller.

>>46983801
Shadow of the Colossus is another example of a setting that does this for me.

>>46978795
A fun theory was that Rom was actually a new born child, hence being "vacuous". He was a blank slate.

Which is why he did little more then flail around and lash out with cosmic energy when threatened.

>>46983704
They didn't creat the One Reborn, they brought the Pthumerian Bellwomen into Yahar'gul from the Nightmare. They were the ones who made the One Reborn. How or why I don't know.

I've just started playing Dark Souls 1 on /tg/s recommendation.

I have a lore question. How long does one complete cycle last for? How long is fire and how long is the darkness in years?

>>46986078
It doesn't say anywhere how much time passes but I remember hearing somewhere that people believed it was ten thousand years.

>>46986078

Like most things in Dark Souls it's never confirmed or even explained, though I remember 'thousands' being thrown around somewhere.

>>46983801
The difference is the medium the story is told through. I've been watching my brother play through Shadows of Mordor (yeah yeah) and it has a lot of little lore nuggets and dialogue here and there that really sparks the imagination.

>>46978989
Huskies just make weird ass vocalizations all the time. Trust me, I owned one. They're weird dogs.

>>46979297
I understood that reference.

>>46977734
>Are there any good Horror Fantasy settings out there other than Warhammer Fantasy?
Kult or Ravenloft would be my picks... Mostly Kult...

>>46986078
There is no answer. It could be dozens of thousands, could be two thousand, and because time is fucked up in these games it could be both

Sometimes the world doesn't go dark cause the fire keeps going. There's no way to know

>>46980571
That's because Blood and Insight are two different things. Micolash and Willem thought that the path to ascension came through eldritch knowledge (insight), that's what those runes that give you bonuses are, it's the Old God alphabet.

Lawrence left Byrgenwerth because he thought the way to ascension was through the old blood. Willem knew it was corrupting which is why he expelled him from Byrgenwerth and is why Lawrence started the healing church.

File: [meatrubbing intesifies].png (721 KB, 1001x1001) Image search: [Google]

721 KB, 1001x1001

>miyazaki redirecting from's efforts to armored core
ARMORED SOULS INC HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTTS

KAATHE DID NOTHING WRONG DARKWRAITHS STRONG

I can't wait to download the ruleset and make a homemade edition of this game

File: dark_souls_the_board_game_1-620x349.jpg (39 KB, 620x349) Image search: [Google]

39 KB, 620x349

>>46991676
forgot pic

>>46986715
That's funny to me because Shadow Over Mordor was such a rushed half-assed cash-grab "we still own this franchise" of a game mechanically and story and writing-wise, but I DO remember it's excellent and accurate usage of Tolkien languages and lore of Middle-Earth in the little artifacts and shit you can come across.

Such a fucking waste.

>>46989380
Apparently Lawrence did NOT start the Healing Church.
Miyazaki confirmed that the skill Vicar Amelia was praying to was his, and that the Church got it's start based around this and Lawrence's death.
I'm thinking he just genuinely wanted to help people, got turned into the Burning Cleric Beast as in the Hunter's Nightmare (or maybe he was burned alive when Old Yharnam fell apart) and then the Choir really massively expanded the power of the Church by using him as a messianic figure who discovered the healing blood.

So where do the aliens, like the Emissary, fit into the blood and old gods thing?

>>46992083
The Emissary was an artificial being created by humans to serve as an intermediary for communicating with the great ones.
Iirc, at least.

>>46989762
Kaathe a shit, Aldia best alternate option.

>>46992083
What >>46992295 says.
The Emissaries and the Kin like them are actually human beings, just like nearly every monster that isn't Kin is.
If you send survivor's to Iosefka's Clinic when you sneak in the back way you end up meeting an exact number of Emissaries equal to the number of survivors you send to her in the first place and Imposter Iosefka attacks you.

They're part of the Choir's experiments in transforming humans to a "higher" state through Old Blood infusions and experiments of different types, just like the Celestial Children are.
It's most likely Ebriata's blood they're using to do this given the connections between the Children and the Emissaries in the Upper Cathedral Ward, but we're not sure.

>>46985585
At least it's better than the literal translation "Rom the Retarded Spider."

>>46991827
Where does it say that? I think Lawrence did set up the healing church, but when he set it up it was genuinely meant to help people.

I'm almost certain that Ludwig was on the scene when Lawrence was making moves, and he only gets involved after the start of the scourge of beasts.

>>46993157
Lawrence started blood ministration but at no point is he involved in the church.

>>46989421
Don't fucking tease my dick with this shit, anon

>>46991730

What bugs me is that the story had the potential to be good - all they had to do was be brave enough to actually admit they were making a tragedy, instead of having it come across as a generic "hard man making hard choices" revenge fantasy outside of a few hints.

>>46977734
Shadow of the Demonlord!

>>46993698
lawrence was the first vicar

>>46991676
>>46991688
YES!

I'm already gonna steal some of it's Boss Fight mechanics for my DND 5e game!

>>46997205
>Shadow of the Testicle Explosion!

>>46997476
Disregarding some of it's weirder bull shit it's a pretty great game imo.

And the Dark fantasy, world is ending due to horrors thing is in line with what OP wanted.

>>46991827
>(or maybe he was burned alive when Old Yharnam fell apart
Fuck, this makes too much sense.
>laurence uses old blood to try to help everyone
>everyone gets ashen blood
>burnitall.jpg
>hence laurence's nightmare form is lavatacular

>>46977734
Warhammer F-

Uh.

Darkest Dungeons?

>>46997215
I'm starting to think "vicar" may be a mistranslation, it means "representative of a higher power," and whether laurence started the church or it started around him that def. doesn't really fit.

>>46978112
>They also reproduce by raping human women and having their offspring burst out like a chestburster but we don't talk about that part.

When you're edgier than Warhammer "literally smear everything with our own feces and eat babies" beastmen, you know you've gone too far.

>>46979102


They become Angels

Bug laser shooting angels

>>46979689
I'm sure Gwyndolin is used to being people's sockpuppet, if you know what I'm saying

>>46993698
>>46998117

Laurence is the founder of the Healing Church, as described in several item descriptions. He split off from Byrgenwerth upon discovering the Old Blood and created the Church in order to distribute his new miracle concoction. "Vicar" may not be entirely precise, but it still fits him as the "representative" of the healing power of the blood, and especially the Great Ones it was derived from.

>>46993157
Miyazaki confirmed it in an interview.
Ludwig was around at the time too, but I strongly suspect that all of the first generation Hunters aside from Eileen and Gerhman are long since dead.
And a case could be made for Gerhman not really counting as "alive" at all.
>>46997215
No, the church SAYS he was.
Just like every religion ever says it's legendary founder counts as the first leader even though in almost all cases the organization itself wouldn't be formed until he was long dead.
>>46998106
Not quite.
The Ashen Blood thing happened then the Healing Church (or what would become the Healing Church) swooped in and healed it using blood ministration.
But the corpses you see on fire and in piles all over Old Yharnam aren't human, but beast corpses.
I think basically they had a small-scale version of what happens to Yharnam on the Night of the Hunt you arrive (complete with the elder Hunters and church officials, such as Ludwig and Lawrence going mad and beastial) and it got burned down by the burgeoning Healing Church under a Hunter's Moon as suggested by the note you find in Central Yharnam and then Yharnam basically decided it wanted to forget about it and built around and above the old city rather then probe too deeply into the causes of the Scourge of the Beast.
I'm guessing the Church Hunter's got their start here as well and it was just one more way to make the Healing Church look like saviors.
>Big disease outbreak
>Miracle cure for the disease
>Everyone is turning into monsters
>Form an organization to fight them.
It works out pretty well.
>>46998117
Just because people SAY he called himself the first Vicar doesn't mean he did. The benefit of making grandiose claims about dead men is that dead men can't correct you.
Also, technically the Vicar IS a representative of a higher power because the Choir is the group that is ACTUALLY in charge of Church and Yharnam.

>>47000629
>>46998117
Vicar is also another Victorian thing, reinforcing the while Gothic theme.
The guy in charge of a local church in England is called a vicar (it's an Angelican/Lutheran thing), and they're one of the few modern-day clerics that still regularly use the title in everyday language to mean a local priest.

>>46998117
教区長エミーリア (Vicar Amelia)
初代教区長ローレンス (Lawrence, the First Vicar)
初代 = first
教区長 = head of a parish/diocese
>>47000753 is correct.

>>46979914
To my understanding...
By taking the First Flame for yourself you are taking the fire that started it all, so the embers of it remain active and alive.
Harnessing that with the Dark Sign basically means that you will never fully hollow, ever.
The significance comes in when you realise that the abyss can't exist without the First Flame ending and the First Flame going out is what causes the Undead to arise.
So while it's Embers are alive the Abyss will not be able to bring about the Dark Age, meaning that Humanity can now inherit the world proerly.
The 'marriage' is simply a case of genetic since your spouse is the only other Ashen One and has the same power you do.
Taking them as a queen/king means that your children will probably have the same ability should the cycle attempt to begin again.

TL;DR the ending is one massive cosmic middle finger.
But I've been wrong before.

>>46977734

I don't know about DS3 but I've certainly thought of how to put a Ludwig holy blade type encounter in my game

File: Ludwig+in+a+nutshell_837788_5784505.jpg (550 KB, 708x2163) Image search: [Google]

550 KB, 708x2163

>>46979247

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kvgxgBexU

;_;

>>47004041
Wow, that's surprisingly well-done.
I couldn't decide when he started talking if the Moonlight Sword made him MORE crazy and he just went the full 180 into being sane again or LESS crazy and thus more human.
Mind you what he talks about when he speaks of his sword kinda reminds me of the Hunter's Dream and so far the moon has some very specific connotations in this.

>>47004935
"The Great Ones that inhabit the nightmare are sympathetic in spirit, and often answer when called upon." Moon rune.

I don't doubt that his 'guiding moonlight' was the Moon Presence aiding him and furthering its own goals.

>>47001255
How so? As in a multiple phase boss battle?

>>47005124
I am admittedly unsure what the Moon Presence/Flora's "goals" even are, but given it's recurring role as the one who creates the Hunter's Dream (which we know of at least two other Hunter's who were a part of it, likely more) and that it seems to more or less point you in the direction of the other Great Ones I kinda get the feeling that it basically wants you to kill it's brethren for it, assuming it has any actual goals at all and isn't just helping you kill Great Ones because that ARE technically one of the main source of Yharnam's problems with Beasts and thus helping folks hunt them is sorta granting their wish, albiet in a way the Hunters involved weren't even aware was true.

>>46998122
ERmmmm....

You do realize that Warhammer's Beastmen are expies of the Broo, right? In older fluff and the Black Industries RPG it's even implied that they do the same thing with human women. The Broo also usually smear everything with their own shit, especially their weapons because of all the nasty diseases it carries.

>>47007787
Speaking of the Hunter's Dream, I think I actually have an inkling what's up with that after playing the DLC and the main game.
So far all the other dreamworlds and nightmares have two things in common; a Great One who rules it (or maybe they just live there) who also sustains it (hence NIGHTMARE SLAIN when you kill the Sweet Child and Mergo) and a dreamer who is actively asleep and is sort of an "anchor" for the dream.

Micolash is clearly the anchor for the Nightmare of Mensis (apparently being dead doesn't impede this process), and I suspect that Gerhman is the anchor for the Hunter's Nightmare given how often he sleeps and how the Doll says after you slay the Sweet Child that his sleep is somehow more restful as if a weight has been lifted off his shoulders.
But I think that the anchor for the Hunter's Dream is actually the Plain Doll herself, lying apparently lifeless in the Abandoned Hunter's Workshop. I noticed the seemingly inanimate Doll's finger twitching in the real world, kinda like some people do when they're asleep.

>>47007787
I like to think it helps Hunters kill Great Ones because that's what Gehrman asked of it. He pleaded for a way to stop the scourge, and the Moon Presence gave him a way that is unfortunately but necessary.

>>47007950
Quite possible considering the Doll is linked to Maria. They exist in a kind of mobius strip of dreams, maria in Gehrmans' dream and he in hers.

File: show-pic.jpg (130 KB, 600x767) Image search: [Google]

130 KB, 600x767

>>46977734
Enough /v/ discussion. If I wanted to run a tabletop campaign with a similar feel to Dark Souls, would this game work?

I'm curious about it but I have some reservations. For one, it's still based on d20. I understand it's a heavily modified version of the system, but still I have misgivings. Does it suffer from the same hit point bloat that afflicts all DnD based systems?

>>47007986
At the same time, though, the Moon Presence's, uh, presence seems responsible for the scourge, the blood moon. Unless that's actually Mergo and Oedon and the hunter's moon is just a sign that there's hunters about.

Also Laurence had something to do with Moon Presence, as the note in the Lecture Building notes that the moon presence was "beckoned by Laurence and his associates", likely using the Umbilical Cord found in the Abandoned Workshop

>>47007986
I think it's possibly likely that if the Moon Presence is helping Gerhman kill the Great Ones because he wanted help ending the Scourge that it's doing it not out of any real plan to kill the others or even because it's necessary, but because the Great Ones seem to constantly be about granting wishes that have unintended consequences simply because they don't really understand humans that well.

The Moon Presence/Flora is could just be granting Gerhman's wish in the best way it knew how; killing the other Great Ones (because it's the only way to stop the Scourge) by using the Hunter's Dream to more capably sustain Hunters in their battles.
The fact that it traps Gerhman there when he clearly very much wishes to NOT be there anymore might just be accidental because the Moon Presence/Flora didn't understand how that would hurt him, just like Mergo didn't understand how granting the School of Mensis knowledge would kill all of them.

File: 1524572-dswall.jpg (499 KB, 1280x720) Image search: [Google]

499 KB, 1280x720

Can't we all agree that demon souls is far better than dark souls ? Dark souls 1 is so fucking lame in comparison I couldn't even bother to finish it.

>>47008245
I've heard that that game is perfect for running low-level dark fantasy if that's any help.

>>47007950
Hmmmm.

I agree with the anchor theory (though host is more appropiate term, since it was Micolash title). But the nightmare is functionally another dimension akin to Lovecraft dreamlands, with its own ecosystem (Amigdalas, etc), so I don't think you need anything like an anchor to sustain it, atleast in its raw form. Just the different layers that seem to be shaped by Old Ones helping out individuals like Gehrman or certain groups like Mensis or the fish-people of Kos.

>>47008298
*Shrug*

No. I like both.

>>47008253
The Scourge and the Blood Moon are unrelated I think because the Scourge was around even when the Blood Moon wasn't. The Blood Moon is happening because the School of Mensis is fucking around with the Nightmare so they can gain eldritch knowledge from Mergo, hence the letters you can find on the subject in the Hypogean Gaol.
However the Blood Moon DOES seem to make the effects of the Scourge WORSE, which is why there was one when Old Yharnam was finally burned down.

I think the Great Ones just kinda think in really straight lines without understanding the consequences for human beings.
To get to the end goal of ending the Scourge (as per Gerhman's likely request) you need to eliminate ALL the sources that cause it and make it worse; Ebrieatas and her Old Blood and Mergo's cries making it worse by calling down the Blood Moon. Killing Rom is just a side effect because to reach Mergo you need to kill Rom.

Great Ones granting wishes seems a lot like what happens with US when we try to meddle in nature to improve it or help animals; we tend to cause radical side effects and consequences even though what we are TRYING to do is help because we don't really understand the system we are meddling in as much as we'd like to.

>>47008253
I'd say it means that the pact with the moon presence goes all the way back to the Byrgenwerth hunters, so Laurence and his associates probably mean Gerham, Maria and other old hunters at the time. If that's true then the whole hunting business really went back far in time, which could also imply that beasthood (or atleast other uglies) were around before blood ministration was even a thing. Or perhaps hunters made their pact only after it prooved that blood ministration made things worse, as a way of getting juiced up for the trials ahead. I dunno, the timeline gets blurry the further back you go.

>>47008359
I meant anchor the way a LITERAL anchor works.
When you cut an anchor free of the ship, the ship doesn't cease to exist, it just becomes hard to tether down into one place and kind of "drifts".
The anchors of the different Dreamworlds seem to literally sort of "tether" them to a certain person and shape them to some degree, whereas normally we get the shapeless mess of the Nightmare Frontier, but places tied to an anchor seem to have form related to the dreamer; the Nightmare of Mensis seems to include the Lecture Hall and the towers that resemble those in Yahar'gul, and the Hunter's Dream strongly resembles the Old Workshop.

The Hunter's Nightmare (since I believe it's technically formed from numerous dreamers all chained to it by the curse cast by the Sweet Child) looks like a distorted version of Yharnam with lots of pieces and blank spots that look like they were lifted from the Nightmare Frontier, kind of like it was "filling in" gaps of memory and distorting it based on the imperfect memories of everyone involved, whilst the Hunter's Dream and Nightmare of Mensis replicate smaller areas that most of those anchoring/involved in the dream that they knew very well.

>>47008466
As noted in the Constables' set there are beasts elsewhere in the world. Whether this is because the scourge got out of Yaharnam and spread or because of other Great Ones doing stuff in other parts of the world is unknown.

Or the set could be referring to a criminal as the beast, who then transforms in Yaharnam.

>>47008466
The Scourge is DEFINITELY real old, and I think it goes back centuries and always for the same goddamn reasons; people keep fucking with the Old Blood due to it's benefits and then a Scourge breaks out and Hunters have to kill them leading to the decline of the civilization.
Some items says that the Pthumerian ruins are filled with crude medical equipment, suggesting that they too used blood ministration (and I'm guessing that's where Lawrence and the Scholars of Byrgenworth even got the idea in the first place) and paid for it like the Yharnamites are now doing in the same way.
Then the Ailing Loran Chalice says that a tragedy struck the land of Loran "that has it's roots in the Scourge of the Beast" and then says "some suggest that Yharnam may be next".

Yharnam is just another civilization in a seemingly endless cycle where someone discovers the Old Blood, uses it, then suffers from the Scourge and destroys itself.
Which is pretty fitting in with Miyazaki's fond usage of eternal recurrences in history as the entire plot of Dark Souls is based on.

>>47008597
How could one explain the whole Ailing Lorian chalice? Is it underground, just very far away? It seems to have been around the medieval period when the whole beast thing happened. How did healing church prospectors even get there? Assuming they didn't have our convenient dream-powered warping methods then it must have been one heck of a trip.

>>47008245
It's a bit more Warhammer Fantasy then Dark Souls, but sure.
It's a d20-based game, but it is NOT the d20 System by any means and combat and character creation works very differently.
There isn't such a thing as initiative for instance and you don't have classes at all but instead have much vaguer "careers".

That said, you die a lot less easily in Shadow of the Demon Lord then in Dark Souls.

>>47008712
It says somewhere 9I forget where) that there is a way into the labyrinths(the chalice dungeons) under Byrgenwerth. That's where the found Ebriatas.

>>47008712
Taking trips to get to places to get something valuable from them has never particularly dissuaded the more highly motivated members of the human race, regardless of time period.

>>47008718
Oh, one thing different from Dark Souls but sure as shit is different from D&D is that healing takes a long-ass time in SotDL and even healing potions just mildly speed up the process.

>>47008245
So I bought this off Drivethru RPG and started reading it. I'm not going to be running this. While it has been pointed out that the system uses a d20 this is in no way a D20 game. In terms of system design it resembles the Dragon Age tabletop RPG far more than than D&D. I have few complaints about the system itself, though I would have prefer erred Hit Points be a fixed value that does not change ala Basic Roleplaying.

Now for the real dealbreaker, the setting. This game's setting is such an illogical, patchwork mess. Why are all medieval fantasy settings seemingly required by law to include elves and dwarves? Honestly the feel the authors were trying to go for here would have been much better served by making humans the only player race. Also why are there fucking DROIDS in this? This isn't Ebberon, and the inclusion of magitech robots really just clashes with the feel they're going for here.

I'm not going to be playing this, but I am curious to hear what others think about it.

>>47008949
I'm with you; it feels like it kind of wanted to be an alternative to Warhammer Fantasy (which has elves and dwarves and shit) but then also put other random fantasy junk in there to generate more appeal from more people, but it doesn't really gel very well at all.

>>47008949
Don't know much about the game or setting, hardly even heard anything about the game at all. But if you don't mind going into more detail on the whole thing, I'd like to hear more about its premise or lore or whatever. Also what is this bit about magitech robots?

>>47008298
They're different games, with different concepts and ideas.

I personally really enjoyed many parts of Demon's Souls, especially in regards to the Valley of Defilement and the Tower of Latria, however, I think it's story is far less powerful, overall, and the game itself lacked the majesty that Dark Souls can inspire.

Like, Demon's Souls individual levels are incredible, but the overall world it builds isn't nearly as interesting, and it really lacks a real theme.

>>47009221
Well demon's souls story was rather simple. Old ancient people master soul magic thanks to Tree of Life analogue and source of all souls. They grow too powerful and corrupt, they fuck it up. Source of souls becomes all consuming old one that creates demons, world goes to shit. From the ashes new civilization rises, find about old ancient soul magic, release ancient evil monster from its slumber, only a hero can stop this.

So it really is the typical fantasy plot. But the atmosphere and presentation really shined, like, you could really feel like one more of the would-be heroes that all tried and failed to free boletaria and shit. Great stuff.

>>47009298
Sure, but that means that the story ultimately boils down to your very standard fantasy fare. Kill the bad guys, defeat the monsters, save the day. There's very little too it, and nothing really defines the world as anything but a backdrop, barely touched upon.

That's where the atmosphere fails, really. The overall feeling of the world just doesn't carry through, even if the individual elements work so well.

>>47000707
>Just like every religion ever says it's legendary founder counts as the first leader even though in almost all cases the organization itself wouldn't be formed until he was long dead.
You know they're beginning to find evidence that this is true of Islam?

>>47012206
It's mostly the exception that proves the rule since it's the ONLY exception as far as I can tell.
You'd think at least ONE other religious founder might figure out that being a military badass and having an army would be pretty helpful in making your religion popular and successful but somehow that never seems to be the case.

Maybe Judaism is an exception but that one goes so far back it's hard to tell if King Solomon invented it or what thanks to shitty record keeping.

File: ldnXg47.jpg (6 KB, 225x225) Image search: [Google]

6 KB, 225x225

>>47012395

Well, there is the theory that Moses was actually as much of a military leader for the Israelites as he was a spiritual one, one apparently very adept at maneuver. Some of the more fantastical parts of Exodus have been re-imagined in a mundane sense, with the "column of fire" being a literal signal fire carried before the Israelites' marching column, and the crossing of the Red Sea as an exploitation of certain tidal forces in the Sinai.

Going further, the Israelites spent a couple generations wandering the desert before moving into Canaan, using that time to prepare militarily for their conquest. You'd need a good chunk of time to set up your supply base, train your force, and reconnoiter your enemy, after all.

>>47012759
there isn't really even any evidence that the captivity in Egypt actually happened, though.

>>47013115
Yeah, the whole "Israelites built the pyramids" thing is pure bullshit by history standards; they were long since built and falling into decline even if they were enslaved at the time, and there's some difficulty in reconciling weather or not somehow the Egyptians managed to enslave literally an ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP with reality since they didn't really have the manpower or even need to do that at that period in time.

File: chrome_2016-05-01_15-34-32.png (307 KB, 646x432) Image search: [Google]

307 KB, 646x432

Thought I might as well post it here.
Looks like we've got from top-right to bottom left; Kirk, Maneater Mildred, King Jeremiah, Paladin Leeroy, Marvelous Chester, ???, Maldron the Assassin, ???, Oliver the Collector, and Fencer Sharron.
Don't care too much for the Dark Souls 2 invaders, but the Dark Souls 1 invaders are just so iconic. I'm hyped.

>>47015285
...bottom left is Armorer Dennis, the fucking prick!

Middle right appears to be the new maneater that invades in the gutter?

>>47015285
>bottom left
FUUUUUCK THAT PRICK

>>47012395
I mean, they're beginning to find evidence that Muhammad may have started a Jewish sect which got co-opted by later religious leaders.

>>47008949
>So I bought this off Drivethru
If you'd asked I could have uploaded it. No need to pay for something you don't end up using.

>>47008265
I like your take on old ones wishgranting, but my personal impression about Moon presence (what do you mean with 'Flora'?) keeping gehrman is that "every great one loses its child, and yearns for a surrogate'. I imagine that presence acts like a manic mother, wanting to pamper its child, but unwillig to let it go (or not understanding that it would want to).

>>47015285
>but the Dark Souls 1 invaders are just so iconic
Armourer Dennis is well-known for being way more powerful than someone barely in the middle of the first real area of DS2 should be able to face, and Navlaan is pretty good too. His absence disappoints me. Also, I wonder how good the quality can be on the Kirk mini.

>>46998122
Broo predates Warhammer, and Warhammer obviously cribbed a number of things from Glorantha.

>>46991730
Shadow of Mordor is fucking weird

It is by all rights a cashgrab AssCreed/Arkham clone, but the polish, the Nemesis system and the cool lore tidbits elevate it out of the mediocrity it should belong to.

Seriously, if we don't see the Nemesis system or its expies in other games, I'm gonna be seriously miffed.

>>47018095
>what do you mean with 'Flora'?
In the later stages of the game when found praying at Maria's grave, she can be very rarely heard praying to/for many people to "'O Flora, of the moon".
I thought it was a small F at first but with subtitles on it capitalizes it like a given name.

Not sure if "Flora" is the correct name of the Moon Presence or not, but there's no other Floras in-game and only one thing I would say is "of the moon".

>>46977734

Age of Sigmar looks to be pretty fucking good setting so far, probably the best in the last twenty or so years, arguably top5 all time. Marvel Universe done right imo.

File: bait.webm (1 MB, 1280x720) Image search: [Google]

1 MB, 1280x720

>>47020374