Hey /tg/, what are some good ways to break away from the cliches in your typical totally-not-vikings culture? I'm trying to find ways to make my setting's typical 'northern barbarians'/norse into something a little more stand out. It's so easy to find things on 'vikings' but little for actual norse culture.
Can /tg/ recommend me some good resources or media on the norse?
>>46966009
They like cheese a lot and actually spend more time trading then raiding for one. The Norse were massively prolific traders and sailors and nearly all of their runic writing we have that's left behind is basically trading lists of what they bought or sold.
Raiders were a relative minority among them but since they tended to raid churches (who had lots of good stuff but few defenders) and were usually the only people around who can read and write they got to decide how they'd be remembered.
They also weren't a unified culture at all, consisting of many different tribes and groups all throughout the migration period.
By the time they were actually "Vikings" and raiding England and taking large parts of it over they had actually dropped their old deities for being Christian like pretty much the rest of Europe (outside of the Lithuania area) had.
>>46966188
>>46966188
>They like cheese a lot
Noted.
>>46966009
I just make them proper pre-christian norse.
They do have vikings, but they're merchants most of the time. The stories still exist but it's also obvious to anyone around that they come from a bunch of booty-bothered, less civilized offshoot of their culture.
>>46966009
There's really not a lot we know because their culture was annihilated and deliberately erased when Christendom came.
We do know that the Scandinavians were primarily fishermen and traders. We know that they discovered the Americas, and that they sailed as far as India in the far east.
They were usually disunited as hell. They mostly used spears and bows in combat. Their primary defensive implement was a large shield, armor was expensive. Their successors were employed by the Byzantines as the Varangian Guard.
>>46966009
They aren't from the north. They are southern merchants who armed themselves in defense against pirates and raiders, but turned to pillaging when they became feared. Why not? So now they raid the southern coast, giving thanks to their recently exalted war god who rewards cunning and victory above all else. Far from mindless brutes, these raiders are tactical and methodical. They trade what they dont need to allies and steal what they want from the rest.
You want my honest opinion?
Get MORE vague, not less
When you try to build particular counterpart cultures you'll keep forcing them into a certain framework
The Northmen of my setting lived simply, wore animal skins or cloth tunics/cloaks & trousers, and divided themselves into various tribes and clans
Sounds like it could be anywhere in Northern Europe. Some hunt, some are pirates, some live under tribal kings, others farm, etc
They're pretty glum people overall but have a sense of humor underneath
>>46966188
>By the time they were actually "Vikings" and raiding England and taking large parts of it over they had actually dropped their old deities for being Christian like pretty much the rest of Europe (outside of the Lithuania area) had.
This isn't really true. During the 'Viking Age' they were generally not Christian. They hardly even had exposure to Christianity in that time period.
>>46966009
Highlanders.
Alternately, Borderers.
>>46966611
They didn't use bows that much, they considered them cowardly, and they wouldn't have been very effective in the wars they fought because of the lower population and the prevalence of shields.
>>46967054
They used them for skirmishing and picking off the odd dude here and there. You're right that they weren't particularly useful and that they were culturally sneered at, but they DID make use of 'em.
>>46967074
They used them, but by no means was it something that they 'mostly' used. Most common would be spears, and seax. Everyone at the battlefield would have those two in addition to a shield.
Heres some ideas
>They only raid settlements of known evil doers
>they sometimes raid each other over stolen contracts and bad deals
>since they generally don't have a lot of room on their ships so even the traders are armed and trained
>communities and guilds form around what goods and services can be traded
>being a JUST guard or soldier is frowned upon and considered to belong in a low cast
>often dreams of owning land and a large farm to raise a family.
That's usually my go to Barbarian.
>>46966009
>what are some good ways to break away from the cliches in your typical totally-not-vikings culture?
Historically accurate Vikings, not even trolling.
>>46966009
All female
If you have the time I would suggest you go read some of the sagas we have preserved and translated. Burned njarl is pretty good. The saga of Egil, and the saga of Erik the red are all good, and give some interesting insight into everyday vikings.
It was highly dishonorable to steal from someone, but killing them in combat and then taking there stuff was fine. Also it's not murder if you challenge them in public first.
>>46966009
The "Realm of the Elderlings" books have a !notviking group of people known as the Outislander's which aside from raiding are also known for enjoying trade (like the Norse of old).
one thing that does make them strand apart is their many decentralized clans (actually still like the Norse) and their matriarchy stating that Woman are given the land and men are given the sea which makes the woman lords and farmers and optional raiders and defenders, but makes the men the standard warrior class.
>>46967787
Why were duels outlawed in the first place?
>honing your fighting skills just on par to your intellectual skills
The end of obesity right there
>>46966009
> Hey /tg/, what are some good ways to break away from the cliches in your typical totally-not-vikings culture?
>Can /tg/ recommend me some good resources or media on the norse?
UNREAL WORLD.
>>46967814
>honing your fighting skills just on par to your intellectual skills
>The end of obesity right there
But obese people have already honed their body and their mind.to the same standards.
>>46967917
>>46967787
Debatable. Grave robbing and taking from the dead were taboos in Norse culture. If you stole from the dead the superstition was that they would haunt you. Now whether or not that applies to freshly killed foes I'm not 100 certain, and I would be willing to bet pilfering corpses after a battle was pretty common, but I don't think it was a universal practice, and I would be willing to bet such conduct would be frowned upon.
>>46966009
Doing the real Norse.
No, seriously. We reached the point where the cliche is so far away from source, you can actually play real-world Norse straight and everyone will be amazed about this fresh spin about vikings of yours.
Or you can go for King of the Dragon Pass as source and have some fun with totally not vikings
Have them be trying to live up to another culture that has faded or is extinct, trying to act as their successors.
Imagine Vikings doing their utter best to act like Romans, but they're still obviously barbaroi. Leaders garbing themselves in Roman armor that was hundreds of years old before their people rose into prominence.
>>46968208
I guess someone was watching 13th warrior one time too many
Base it off of a 'northern' culture aside from the Norse. Slavs, Inuits, Mongols...
>>46968229
Nah, just a historical fiction book trying to do a more grounded take on King Arthur. At a meeting of some military leaders, one of them was wearing Roman armor, and I just wondered how he must look to all these Dark Age petty kings. Like Rome reborn or something like that.
>>46968208
>garbing yourself in shitty roman armor
>when your people literally picked up the method for mail from trading with its inventors
(And I don't mean Rome, fucking Romaboos, romans took soap, the plow and most of their military kit from barbaroi)
>>46968357
What's so bad of roman armor? Apart from lookingdumb
Their society is a matriarchy.
>>46968409
What a stupid idea
>>46968391
Segmentata is expensive as fuck to make because you can't really make it one standard size and be good.
Also it's not anywhere near as good as the romaboos insist it is, hamata is almost as good for most things, better against archers, which the mediterranean wasn't really known for outside of cretan mercs.
The norse peoples were active traders, adventurers and raiders.
You can differentiate your setting by having them be the most widespread people in the world. Everywhere you go to theres some norse trading post/tavern/mercenary/sellsword/even the odd established Norse Kingdom.
The local intermarriages have produced unique mini cultures of half norse wherever they go. Sometimes mistrusted in foreign lands, the communities of Norse offer near unlimited hospitality to fellow norse and barring a blood feud will always back a fellow norse up if asked. Norse who abuse this privilege are quickly killed off.
>>46966188
The only point I disagree on is about how during the Viking Age they were already mostly Christian. Some groups from Scandinavia were Christian by then, but during the time of the North Sea empire when Denmark owned most of Scandinavia and England, they were still quite Pagan. However this is right before the transition to Christianity, so it wasn't long after that when large parts of Scandinavia began to convert.
>>46968249
>Mongols
Finns?
>>46968437
Gotcha, thanks for the explanation family
>>46968409
A real matriarchial culture would use men for infantry, and field mostly female riders and archers. Female riders make sense, because they generally weigh less.
A talented warrior would be accepted in any branch of the military, regardless of gender.
>>46967054
Raiding parties tended not to use bows, but there is plenty of evidence of them at large battles.
I read a paper that theorized the lack of use of bows in raiding was because generally the fighters who got in to the town/church/city got to pick the best loot, so no one wanted to stay behind and shoot while getting stuck with the leftovers of the loot. But during large battles with armies, there was plenty of bow use going on.
>>46968563
>female
>archer
I want this meme to end
>>46966009
Make the main base to be slavs instead of scandinavians. You can still have some nice "northern barbarian" stuff since there was a lot of cultural interchange.
>>46968599
We all want many things.
>>46968604
I know....
>>46966820
WE WUZ VIKINGZ AND SHIYEEET
>>46968599
>muh popeye armed archers
Daily reminder that too few skeletons showed the deformation for it to have been standard with all archers and that the english warbow a shit.
>>46968039
I mean, if you killed them, you've bested them in combat. If your team kills them, your team has bested their team. There's a contest of combat and to the winner go the spoils.
If you're robbing a grave of some guy, funeral rites have probably already been observed and it's a big taboo not to go rooting around in there. Also, you probably didn't kill the guy, and if you did you've already laid claim to the guy's stuff or let it go and now it's too late. Taboos against digging up graves is also pretty universally cultural because of infectious stuff you can unearth, interpreted as a curse from the dead.
Hell, Siberians think scientists are stupid fuckers because they keep digging up frozen mammoths and shit, which they stay the fuck away from. They stay the fuck away from that stuff because it carries dormant diseases from thousands of years ago, chief among them any form of horrible prion brain-eating disease that makes you go crazy and feral. Might actually be a real-life origin of the wendigo myth.
>>46968702
Too few skeletons showed deformation for what to be standard?
>>46968498
So Norse gypsies?
>>46968409
This.
>>46968702
Longbows were pretty unusual in how much they asked of the people who used them anyway. Most people would do well enough with smaller bows or recurves or other stuff like that.
>>46967054
>considered them cowardly
>raiders who principally fought by ambush
Anon, I...
>>46968409
>the matriarchy is the patriarchy but everything's flipped
Now I'm no expert, but weren't most examples of matriarchies just having female elders in charge or having property and family lineage by decided by the mother's line, but men would still do all the fighting?
>>46968563
A real matriarchal culture would use men for the military and, at best, have some high tier woman managing everything.
Woman would still be making "dinner for the warriors" and similar jobs. What changes is that it's more praised and "dinner makers" make the political decisions instead of soldiers.
>>46968728
Deformation, you dingus
>>46966188
The period of Danish settlement of England by the Danes (mostly) who had previously been raiding and warring there preceded the actual Christening of Denmark by more than a hundred years.
They were sowing fields on English soil in the 9th century, while the first Archbishops of Sweden, Norway and Denmark were not appointed until early 12th century, and at that point there was still a hundred years or so to go in most places before the general population could really be called Christian.
The first chiefs and whatevers that "converted" did so back in the 9th century, but they had no central authority and it was very individual between different small groups, and generally accepted that the conversion was often done for other reasons than genuine faith. Fashion, practicality, as a prerequisite for trade with picky christians, that sort of thing.
So basically what >>46968506
said.
>>46968827
>>46968802
These. Aside for being built better for fighting men have always been and always will be more expendable. What would change is being a soldier would not be nearly as romanticized.
>>46967917
You seem to confuse "not knowing" with "not caring."
It's their hearts that are weak.
>>46968802
Yes, and even the "family lineage decided by the mother's line" thing is not even granted. That's called a matrilinear society, not a matriarchal one, and both things are independent. You can have matrilineal patriarchal societies.
>>46968702
Daily reminder that a hunting weight bow does jack shit against any form of dedicated protective armour at more than spitting distance.
You can pretend like warbows weren't heavy all you like, but it's a well documented and tested fact that even something like a 60lb bow, which is more than you really need to hunt any type of game (45 is fine even for hunting moose) does not actually reliably penetrate riveted mail armor even at a distance of only a few yards.
Weaboos get out.
>>46968409
What a wonderful way to kill off your own civilization. Dead in a few generations due to declining birth rates because there aren't enough women. Stupid gits who think gender doesn't matter and men and women's roles are completely arbitrary.
>>46968874
Exactly. Which is nothing weird, by the way, not all cultures of the past had the same degree of admiration towards the soldier. Apparently nobody liked the job in some periods of ancient egypt, probably the ones where the soldiers were mostly foreigner mercenaries.
>>46968039
Looting the enemy is pretty much universal, if you've defeated them you've earned their stuff.
This is different from looting a designated burial site where someone has been interred with religious observances and so on and so forth, which is why one is generally nothing anyone gets bothered by, and the other is taboo.
>>46967835
But that's a Finno-Korean hyperwar RPG.
>>46968911
I vaguely remember that in the 1700s British soldiers weren't well regarded by most people (at least, the average redbacks, not the officers).
>>46968911
I don't think anybody who's ever had to deal with soldiers and armies has been all that fond of them.
>>46966009
Have them trade in amber and make them genuinely interested in the cultures they visit, to the point where their own religion and culture has melted away to become a conglomeration of beliefs from all over the world.
>>46968409
I've always hated how fictional matriarchies tend to give women all of men's roles. Matriarchy is not the same as role-reversal, it just means women are more respected and empowered by culture and society.
A matriarchal society would not have female soldiers or probably even generals because war is a masculine power, and in a matriarchal society feminine power would be more respected than masculine power.
Its not even like the reason women were never in the military was because of patriarchy. Its that no one wanted it.
Really, who wants women to participate in war? As a man, there are few desires stronger than protecting women (that you care about), you've been born with aggressive instincts that help you get hyped for killing (if you need to), and you have enough physical strength to make up for two women anyway. Your instincts help you cope with fighting because someone HAS to protect the "clan", but what is even the point if your women, the lifeblood and heart of your clan, are dying alongside you. Men don't even like fighting women (unless they're in the mood and situation for rape I guess).
Women don't want to fight. Fighting sucks, why would they? Sure they may care more for their "clan" than their own life and be willing to fight, but its hard to really get into it when half the population has been all "No, please sit back, I GOT THIS." your whole life. They don't want you to fight, They want to fight for you, you kinda don't want to fight, they are like twice as good as it anyway, there is shit to do around home so we don't all starve and are kids don't die while the war goes on. Fuck it.
If ANYONE wanted women to fight, it would have happened somewhere by now. We would have martial arts somewhere developed by women to help compensate for lesser strength, more historical examples of female units or leaders, etc, effectiveness aside.
The only people who want to see women fight are those with no real concept of what real violence is like.
>>46966188
>Raiders were a relative minority among them
Their traders and raiders were the same people. Whether they traded or raided depended on how fortified a given town was compared to their own numbers.
>>46966009
Read the study from the arab on the Rus. You'll learn a lot of neat stuff from it, although keep in mind the arab was pretty biased.
>>46969367
I'd really like to screencap this, but I don't know how.
So I guess I'll just sit here in awe and hope that someone more capable stumbles upon this
>>46969367
>>46969579
Here is a head up. Women did fight in battle and stuff. It was a bit rare but it did happen.
>>46969596
....It doesn't say anywhere in that post that they didn't. The post just explains a frustration with a common portrayal of matriarchy that is, frankly speaking, impractical, counter intuitive, and wasteful. Isolated examples don't change the fact that the system breaks down when employed beyond the immediate individual. A clan with no birthing age females is a dead clan... or a very rape happy clan. Neither seem particularly healthy for the growth of a stable form of society.
>>46969671
While men can admittedly start having children fairly young and be able to have kids even into their 50s, it's not as if mid-teens through the 40s is particularly small amount of time either.
Childbirth would understandably cause a lot of problems for the body, especially before modern medicine, but a woman could conceivably have three kids before she's thirty and have done her duty as far as childbirthing and left the rearing up to older women. And even forty is still young enough to be fit.
>>46969579
Here friendo.
Windows has a built in tool called "Snipping Tool" that you can use for such things. From win 7 upwards I think.
>>46969367
>We would have martial arts somewhere developed by women to help compensate for lesser strength, more historical examples of female units or leaders, etc, effectiveness aside.
You do see those things in the East though, now if people want to accept it or write it off as Far Eastern mysticism is another thing.
>>46968891
Most war bows didn't require great musculature to use however.
>>46969367
>We would have martial arts somewhere developed by women to help compensate for lesser strength
Wing Chun?
>>46968702
Given how devastating it was during the Hundred Years War history would disagree with that statement.
>>46970106
Not really.
>>46970168
>how devastating it was during the Hundred Years War
>>46970106
No, Deeko Keeko
>>46968409
>>46968563
Modern anthropology has in minds of some, "never found an actually matriarchal culture/society." Though my anthropology professor believes that this has more to do with matriarchal societies not being exact reversal of gender roles. There is one Chinese culture called the Mosuo which is probably the best example of what matriarchy really is in his mind.
Consequently, that could be a really good northern civilization.
>>46969596
They rarely excelled though. From memory, I think the only military disciplines where women had a real impact were marksmanship and piloting.
>>46969898
The only one I can think of is Naginatajutsu and that has more to do with Japanese traditions than with any particular female aptitude for skewering people with glaives.
>>46968599
>Every bow is a yeoman longbow
I want these meme to end
>>46970312
>these instead of this
I want this meme to end
>>46970260
Wing Chun, but for some arbitrary reason its not considered a martial art?
>>46970343
>I want this meme to end
I want this meme to end
>>46970365
>>I want this meme to end
>I want this meme to end
I want this meme to end
>>46970382
>wanting wanting wanting this meme to end to end to end
I don't want this meme to end
>>46970346
I only read the wikipedia article, so maybe you know something I don't, but it looks like the only thing wing chun has to do with women is that there is a legend of its founding which includes the first two practitioners being women, but which the article clarifies is probably only a legend, and which sounds exactly like a legend to me.
I want everything to end
>>46970543
I want your want for everything to end to end
>>46970346
It's poorly organized and worse at regulating practitioners. It doesn't promote any kind of physical training during class time and because it's a martial arts "for the streets" it doesn't have an emphasis on sparring or physical contact. So you get a bunch of higher level practitioners who are shit fighters because it turns out fighting is tiring and getting hit hurts, a lot more if you're stronger.
It's the Cross fit of Kung fu, where it can be effective if you have really, really good basics but if you don't develop those first it's pretty much useless.
Also, no idea why people say it would be good for women. A male Wing Chun practitioner would still wreck the shit out of a female one given the same level of skill. And once again, you would need a strong physical foundation for it to be really effective in the first place, so probably a less skilled practitioner would wreck a more skilled woman in a real fight.
>>46970500
That's the problem with citing anything Eastern, its easily brushed off as a legend. Supposedly it was invented by a woman who made Wing Chun so she could fight off a larger, male suitor. The idea being punching on the center line with straight jabs while inside the reach of her larger opponent.
>>46970222
The French had to chop off archers fingers to cripple the military power of England.
>>46966009
The Norse were pretty cool guys.
Okay but seriously that's true.
They believed that men made better priests (godi) but women were also occasionally priestesses (gydja), it's not entirely clear how this work or what delineated them, but priests generally did not align with a specific god, but served as conduits for their wisdom or geas.
Norse practiced seidr, a ritualistic magic, and until the late Iron Age they were exclusively women. They were typically referred to as volva, and considered to have the seer's gift.
The lesser form was called galdr and it was always practiced by both men and women.
Norse religion and magic are ridiculously cool.
I always liked Eskimos/Inuit as an alternative.
>>46970627
In that line, I wonder what a martial art developed entirely for the optimal use of the female body would look like. They don't have much to work with, but they are somewhat more flexible and have better balance.
>>46970791
and lower center of gravity
>>46968602
Of course it would. The Norse fucked the Slavs into Christianity. Sometimes literally.
>>46970791
I have to second >>46970833, short girls can suplex like it's nobody's business.
>>46970791
We call it "seduction".
>>46967054
This is so incredibly untrue.
>>46970640
(you)
>>46970106
>believing kung fu isn't shit
>2016
git gud
>>46970791
It's still jiujitsu.
>>46970898
>Believing that weapons martial arts isn't shit
>2016
Step up nigga
>>46970893
???
>>46968891
That's why people developed recurve and composite bows, you know?
seriously, the English longbow will always strike me as one of those profoundly rudimentary and inefficient things.
>>46971016
More land was conquered, and more men fell to the Mongolian composite bow than the English bow.
>>46971016
>That's why people developed recurve and composite bows, you know?
The cultures that heavily use the recurve bows had shit armor. They became pretty obsolete after plate armor started becoming a thing. The only real reason that people used them in europe during the middle ages was for hunting.
>>46971078
Now that's completely irrelevant and you know it. If I make a raygun, the fact that AK-47's have killed loads more people doesn't magically make my raygun inferior.
>>46971126
That's blatantly untrue. Parthians and Sassanians had the best armor anywhere (using Indian crucible steel, no less) in the world during the centuries of Late Antiquity, and they made extensive use of the composite bow. The bow has always been an injuring and maiming weapon.
>>46971126
Good thing everybody walked around with heavy armor throughout history and fantasy world history.
>>46971149
How is it irrelevant to compare two bows of the same relative era, get off it the yeoman bow isn't the end all be all of bows.
>>46971126
The Mongols with their composite bows defeated Hungarian and Polish knights who wore plate (or transitional plate) armor, and Teutonic Knights
>>46968435
>>46968563
>>46968802
>>46968910
>>46969367
>>46970242
I know the kneejerk reaction is to post some historical facts in counter to this idea, but, do remember, OP is likely designing this society for a fantasy setting.
As in, a setting with magic and magical things. Hell, they might not even be human. There's nothing really saying male elves have to more physically adept than female elves. Or that there can't be a breed of Norsemen with an inclination toward having very strong, physically powerful women. Maybe they've got giant blood in them or something, I dunno. It's not like any system OP will be using will force him timpose -4 STR. Unless he's playing FATAL.
>>46971169
>Chainmail and riveted platelets.
>Best armor.
Not sure where you're getting that from but okay.
By the time the English longbow was ubiquitous, around the 15th century, plate armor was interlocking and a hell of a lot better than that.
>>46971226
I never intended to suggest that the yoeman bow is the best bow around. Hell, I went into this not particularly liking it. It's just that killing a lot of people does not, in and of itself, mean that a weapon must be better than its counterparts. I mean, a profoundly shitty weapon won't see much use, but still.
>>46971223
I'm not saying that all cultures had the same armor it's just that plate armor is clearly superior in this case.
>>46971226
I don't know where you learned history but there is a very big difference between 13th century armor.
>>46970791
The problem us that strength, weight, and reach are such huge fucking trump cards that a martial art designed for women still wouldn't let them win against men.
Especially if they're career fighters. Womens bodies don't handle that kind of trauma as well as guys.
It's like you're asking what kind of compact car you should use to haul stuff as opposed to using a truck
WHY DO PEOPLE NEVER USE POST-VIKING SCANDINAVIA?
WHERE ARE THE GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUSES.
>>46971334
...and 15th century plate armor.
>>46971337
A biology teacher once mentioned than the reason men have testicles outside their body is so they can take a hit there and not die of internal bleeding. But if you knee a woman in the groin, there is a high likelyhood her ovaries will rupture and she will die.
Which goes totally against the sterotype than men's weakness is to kick em between the legs.
>>46971255
You're posting armor from the 1st century BC, when bronze was still in limited use. That's a blatantly unfair comparison.
Gallic lances couldn't even pierce Parthian armor at the Battle of Carrhae. Seriously, I get you have a longbow fetish, but the longbow had been usurped by the arqebus for years by the time of the 15th century. It was only gunpowder that stressed the European development of plate armor, anyways.
>>46971341
You could post some and improve our Post-Viking Scandinavian literacy by taking up the mantle of instructor.
Though the thread is stated to be about Viking-like "Norse" cultures rather than post-Viking cultures. If they're similar enough they should fit with the theme, though.
Guys, the reason they don't show a "realistic" matriarchy in media is it would be way too much like real-life.
>>46966009
Oddly enough Gygax had a good answer to thhis in the form of the Suel
The Suel were a sort of Romanesque empire that was split up and migrated; settling into a sort of feudal norse-like society
>>46971438
Forgive me for questioning the anecdotal evidence of someone's biology teacher on a Chinese cartoon forum but ovaries aren't in the "groin"?
>>46971341
palette-swap generic europeans
>>46971510
>The Suel were a sort of Romanesque empire that was split up and migrated; settling into a sort of feudal norse-like society
All I know about the Suel is I have a Monstrous Compendium Annual with a "Suel Lich" entry.
>>46971455
I don't really have a longbow fetish, I love Warhammer fo the fact that they use guns, however the arqebus was more prevalent in the 16th century.
I'm just saying that if you're really going to make a big deal about composite bows in warfare you're going to have to bear in mind that the time in which they were prevalent armor wasn't that great.
>>46971438
You went to a real shitty school anon. What the fuck.
I will point out that the shorter distance of their urethra does result in women sometimes piss in themselves when jumping on trampolines.
>>46970168
The english won three battles, the french won a fucking war. Yes, clearly they were amazingly devastated.
>>46971690
So the fact that the English became famous across Europe for their archers means absolutely nothing?
In the setting my friends and I are working on, I was in charge of writing up the people that populate the northern segment which is mostly comprised of dense forest, tundra, and inhospitable wasteland populated by dire beasts.
Basically, it's divided into three major ethnic groups, a group of highly charismatic merchant-ey, science-ey people, a group of Eskimo-like individuals that spend a lot of time meditating and working with druidic magic, and a group of more traditional, martially skilled clans. However, due to the fact that the northern wastelands are constantly under siege by a race of fucked up fae (Think Queen Mab, Unseelie shit. Break your bones to see how the sound accompanies a nearby brook style) they are fiercely co-dependent. Culturally, all three have a different way to resist the charms of the fae, be it through unity, inner peace, or strength.
All three have varying cultures with some similarities. They're all obsessed with fire and light, but where the Not!Vikings differ is that they tend to be more individualistic than the others. Furthermore, as opposed to raiding and pillaging they're more frequently found guarding caravans and towns. They also serve as a sort of pseudo-export, as they're widely regarded as some of the best warriors on the continent, many of them choose to pursue careers in mercenary work outside their homelands.
tl;dr: Warlike fucks that value individualism, but work in tandem with the more peaceful peoples to fight dick ass snow elves. They drink, eat, and fuck sure, but are loyal and generally pretty bro tier.
>>46971631
Except you're wrong, because plenty of societies with advanced armor and metallurgy used composite bows to great effect. Longbows were of limited use against any advanced armor; bows were not killing weapons and could not pierce plate at any time, not even the longbow. The longbow has a minor, minor footnote in history, and, furthermore, was used to "devastating" (as in, at Agincourt and Crecy where they were even used well) effect against the 14th-century armor, which was- except amongst the very highest nobles- largely chainmail, partial plate brigandine and- amongst the bulk of the French man-at-arms and infantry- probably no more than linen armor or treated leather.
Second, bows didn't kill people outright, they crippled them.
Seriously, the traditional view of the longbow's greatness is nationalist English sentiment, and has very little *actual* history behind it, strategic victories at Crecy and Agincourt beside.
Seriously, whatever vague argument you have going on here isn't founded in fact. The longbow is clearly not as useful of an implement when it was only used by the medieval English and Welsh and the composite bow was universal to all of East Europe and Asia.
>>46971341
I use post-viking Scandinavia, they're allied with Charles VII's not!France against the Maximilian II's not!HRE
>>46970978
>???
>believing any mystical mumbo-jumbo
>2016
>>46971743
>So the fact that the English became famous across Europe for their archers means absolutely nothing?
Since that never happened, yeah, it pretty much means absolutely nothing.
>>46971438
You're from Texas?
Condolences.
>>46971743
>>46971918
Basically Medieval 2 Total War level of historical education going on here, folks
>>46971930
This guy couldn't debate his way out of Betancourt.
>>46971871
>Giving a shit about East Europe and Asia.
>>46971341
Because then they're boring Christians and aren't as unique and fun. Now they're exactly like every other European country, obviously, because that must be how conversion worked.
>>46968039
>stealing from bodies on the ground
Is not
>grave robbing
Any people who have developed the sensibilities to bury their dead necessarily honor the sites where they have chosen to bury them. Robbing a grave is robbing a sacred place. There is nothing sacred about a corpse on the open ground.
>>46971743
The English always had a strong core of trained yeomen to make up their armies due to how all their people learned how to use a bow. That doesn't make them the Swiss and their well-regarded mercenaries.
>>46970839
>the norse
Franks and greeks were doing that before it was cool.
>>46968891
Daily reminder that your cognitive bias towards modern people being weak wouldn't reflect on the more rigorous life-style of the past.
Even 120lb draw on a bow is easily accomplished by someone who is in shape, even a woman. Archers were not and have never been that dude you just gave a bow to.
>>46972116
>being this wrong
I realize that history is not a strong suit for some of you...but you could at least put the slightest effort in.
>>46971871
Yeah but the longbow was sometimes unstrung, and then have a spearhead affixed to the end. By using it this way the English were able to fight off French cavalry charges by simply putting their new spears in front of them.
>>46972153
Come on, everybody knows that the Byzantines sent missionaries up north to convert the Russians for some reason. Why else would they be Orthodox?
>>46966009
>ctrl+f=Sea Peoples.
>no results...
Sea Peoples were the original vikings and fearsome destroyers of nations from the sea wasnt just a meme, they fucked over a LOT of states including egypt.
SEA PEOPLES NIGGA!
>>46972395
Sea People dump time.
>The term "Sea Peoples" is a moder name given to various seaborne and land invaders, raiders and a loose confederation of clans who troubled the lands of the Near East and Egypt during the final period of the Bronze Age. Who these people were and were they come from, no one knows for certain. Though the Egyptians probably knew of the homeland of the Sea Peoples, the information has since been lost. Many attempts have been made to determine the origins of the various groups of Sea Peoples using textual and iconographic evidence, as well as the material culture of the Sea Peoples identified in Cyprus and the Levant. This materail culture is characterized foremost by locally made Achaean-style pottery; as such, a considerable Aegean presence has been argued in the multi-ethnic Sea Peoples coalition.
>>46972428
>Identification of the Sea Peoples is still a source of much speculation. Apart from the traditional view that equates them with several Aegean tribes, Eberhard Zangger noted that some of the differing views among scholars included invaders from central Europe, scattered soldiers who turned to piracy or who had become refugees, and links with natural disasters such as earthquakes or climatic shifts. He stated that "very few—if any—archeologists would consider the Sea People to have been identified."
Basically you can build of the same base and make them absolutely unique at the same time.
>>46972153
I wouldn't be so cocky if I didn't know that carolingians and byzantines sent missionaries to Great Moravia in a time where scandinavians were not even converted.
But you probably believe that all slavs live in Russia and probably can't put Moravia in the map without googling it.
>>46972428
> According to these texts, King Meryey of the Libyans formed a coalition with several groups that are now classified as Sea Peoples, and, with wives, children and belongings, pushed forward into the Delta. As soon as Merneptah discovered what was happening, he led an expedition against the invaders and defeated them after six hours of fighting .
>>46972461
They seem cool enough, but if they're so vague, how can you really base anything on them?
>>46972573
>"the unruly Sherden whom no one had ever known how to combat, they came boldly sailing in their warships from the midst of the sea, none being able to withstand them."
>>46971960
confirmed for a literal ahistorical idiot, thanks, i don't need to pay attention to your opinion anymore
>>46972602
>Ammurapi describes the desperate plight facing Ugarit:
>My father, behold, the enemy's ships came (here); my cities(?) were burned, and they did evil things in my country. Does not my father know that all my troops and chariots(?) are in the Land of Hatti, and all my ships are in the Land of Lukka?...Thus, the country is abandoned to itself. May my father know it: the seven ships of the enemy that came here inflicted much damage upon us.[48]
>Ammurapi, in turn, appealed for aid from the viceroy of Carchemish—a state which actually survived the Sea People's onslaught—but its viceroy could only offer some words of advice for Ammurapi:
>As for what you [Ammurapi] have written to me: 'Ships of the enemy have been seen at sea!' Well, you must remain firm. Indeed for your part, where are your troops, your chariots stationed? Are they not stationed near you? No? Behind the enemy, who press upon you? Surround your towns with ramparts. Have your troops and chariots enter there, and await the enemy with great resolution!"
>>46972330
actually the kiev willingly opted to be christians, even over the choice of the superior religion (islam) and it's great predecessor, judaism
>>46972722
Not to mention that the country that the byzantines really wanted to convert was Bulgaria.
>>46972589
I dunno
>>46968910
I'm just going to point out that absolute war is a modern invention and that you didn't typically see the same sort of attrition in wars of the past, many of which mere more about achieving a moral victory. And even the Greeks and Romans, upon which many people base their conception of ancient warfare, were uncommonly bloody. I'm not saying that more women wouldn't die in a society where they were warriors, or that this wouldn't have an effect on birthrates, but I'm saying it wouldn't necessarily have anything like the effect you're probably thinking it would, and could maybe be compensated for in many ways.
Let's think about an essentially medieval society. It's not like peasants were typically going out and waging war. It was really a small segment of the population that was going out and fighting, and even they were usually only fighting seasonally. So even if your armies were composed entirely of women, you could still sustain your numbers. I mean, it's not like the male population was so depleted that each guy was desperately knocking up three or four different women just to keep things going.
So if we assume that only a small percentage of the population is actually warriors, that pretty much solves the problem. And maybe their culture expects women to give birth before becoming more than auxiliary warriors. And any women who suffer significant injuries are honored with becoming what are essentially baby factories. Hell, it could even be a part of a soldiers rotation. On duty for 6 years, off 2, or something like that.
So it's hardly an insurmountable thing, even in our world, and once you start adding in magic and so forth, all bets are off the table.
What comes to mind would be:
-Make them the Phoenicians/carthaginians of the north. Traders first and foremost, not warriors at all. Think Hanseatic league with even less martialism, in fact a people known for preferring to hire others to fight for them.
-Make em Saami vikings.
-Look to Beowulf. Instead of rapacious pillagers they are a kind of pedestrian warrior aristocratic culture. Dueling, tourney like events with wrestling, archery contests, poetry face-offs, drinking parties,
>>46972722
The famous myth went they were entertaining the options for religion: http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/classes/baptismofrus.html
To the islam lobbyist: "k so I get pussy and shit when I die that's coo, but I dont wanna chop my dick off and I like eating pork and drinking beer." ["Drinking," said he, "is the joy of the Russes. We cannot exist without that pleasure."]
To the Catholic lobbyist: "Fasting? gtfo"
To the jewish Khazar lobbyists: "If your god is strong then how come peecha chakka no wookie boonowa tweepi solo? Ho ho hooooo"But specifically if God loved them thn the Jews would not be scattered to foreign lands.
Then finally they go visit the East Romans and are struck by the A E S T H E T I C beauty of it all and convert.
>>46968886
This is an important point, when trying to design a fantasy society.
History has a few examples of matrilocal societies (societies in which, in the case of exogamous marriages, men move to their spouse's village), and matrilinear societies (societies in which titles and properties are passed down a woman's family, or occasionally through the woman's brother(s)).
But there are no historical examples of what would actually qualify as "matriarchal" societies. Any allegedly matriarchal society you hear about is generally just amateur anthropologists using the term incorrectly.
That's not to say you can't make a matriarchal society for your setting, just that you won't find examples in human history.
>>46971690
>looking at THYW as a single conflict
I seriously hope etc etc.
The English were monumentally successful on the field of battle prior to the first peace. They were driven to a stalemate by a hailstorm, not by the opposing force. Nature won that conflict, not the French.
>>46972955
Demographically the upper classes had birth rates that more or less mirrored those of nomadic hunter gatherers through a lot of the middle ages, at least in some areas.
Two kids, maybe three, and by 20-25 a woman wasn't having kids anymore, ever. Some women of the aristocracy needed to be told to stop going on hunts all the time so they could actually not have stillbirths once in a while.
>>46973310
>driven to a stalemate
The conquest of Normandy wasn't a hailstorm, but at least it's a more original excuse than pinning the ultimate defeat on a civil war that started 20 years later.
>>46968724
Ciation wanted
>>46973357
I'm talking about the events leading up to the Treaty of Bretigny, here not the final end to the whole series of conflicts.
You may not like it, but most historians are of the view that English victory had been decisive at this point, and they had been forced to sign the treaty by freak occurrence more than anything else.
>>46973357
>implying The War of the Roses was merely twenty years after the First Peace
>implying the conquest Normandy happened at that point, not almost a hundred years later
>implying the French won any significant victories at that stage
I think you may have your timeline muddled.
>>46973646
No pre-modern economy could sustain much more than 1% of its population as warriors, usually 0.1%.
You're not going to double numbers just because instead of 3000 men your legion is 3000 women.
>>46973881
>thinking you will double your populace with only 1-6% more women
>>46973881
Mass militarization was rare, population actually hardly ever doubled.
In fact until the 19th century population growth was a fucking crawl barring exceptional circumstances; european populations barely tripled between the fall of Rome and the french revolution.
Trying to weasel in nonsense about mass warfare in periods where it wasn't a thing just to aggressively defend muh -4 str is stupid because it would actually require this shit to matter.
Women usually had their kids between 15 and 30 and only in the colonies were large families actually a thing.
>>46966009
Swap the poles. Antarctic vikings.
>>46973941
The point is wrong because the upper class was demographically irrelevant. The fact is that the english upper class drained its gene pool to literal nothingness during the war of the roses with just men fighting.
It only matters in places where cultural polygamy is a thing.
>>46966009
they were actually complete shit at organised war. the got BTFO in huge battles against the Scots, the Irish, and the English.
if you want a generic "northern barbarian" feel then just look up cultures that existed during Roman times.
I've been wondering something similar, except about Japan. I want a larger focus on yokai and mystical aspects but don't really "get it" the same way I get other mythologies. I've read a lot of Norse sagas, is there anything comparable for Japanese mythology? Something like the Eddas?
>>46974238
They took over half of England and most of its richest cities.
The only real weak point was that the petty norse kingdoms and their welsh allies weren't as organized as Wessex could be as a single entity.
>>46968409
actual matriarchies just means that women hold high positions of political power, men still do all the fighting.
>>46968599
as much as I hate to say it, women were pretty good archers in a few ancient cultures. mostly eastern women. their men were still better of course.
>>46969367
your post is 100% correct, but women still fought a few times throughout history. Not in any large empires mind you, mostly the desperate ones being conquered.
>>46968784
>Shooting some poor fuck from a hundred yards away.
>Charging from the bushes, bellowing warcries, burying your spear in-between his terrified eyes
>not seeing the difference
>>46970791
this >>46970865
theres no martial art that women are superior to men in, simply because there are smaller men that can do everything they can with just as much flexibility etc. Women are however, capable of being superior assassins, simply because they can get naked and close to someone who wouldn't let anyone that wasn't naked and female close to him.
>>46968512
Go back to /pol/. Finns are whiter than Aryans, have bluer eyes, and blonder hair.
>>46974350
Or because they were widows with no one to stand for them in feudal levies.
Or because they were too powerful in their own right for people to say no.
Or because daddy said she could.
Or because the king is a premodern Ghaddafi.
Or because most of the aristocratic men are on a war footing and you still need nobles in charge of the defence.
There's a lot of situations where it happened that are only justified on a cultural level.
>>46974266
and yet england today is still england. the vikings got btfo in military vs military battles.
>>46973881
women are actually better as snipers, tank drivers and submariners, as the russians proved
>>46974442
North germanic languages influenced english at a way, way deeper level than french.
English got pronouns out of the exchange, which is almost unheard of; most words that starts in th come from the norse. You also get a lot of doublets like skirt and shirt. Again the word with k is norse in origin.
Comparatively, romance terms are only skin deep in english. Erudite vocabulary at best.
>>46974439
it happened definitely, and it still happens today. but all those reasons you listed aren't women being in the regular army en masse. sure theres been female commanders, maybe 1 female soldier for every thousand male soldiers. what I was saying is that several times throughout history there have been huge armies that had thousands of women in them fighting. this is very rare and happens out of desperation.
in a world without modern science, intermixing of races or even that idea that artificial contraception is possible, a womans life is very precious. At the risk of sounding misogynist, you need to keep women safe and alive so they can give birth to children and replace all your dead soldiers.
>>46974535
The thing is, regular army en mass is something that only gradually became a thing. Organized militaries in Europe outside the turks are a 15th century thing and even then it's a small core and a ton of militias.
Also at the height of the HYW the estimate is 1/20 for knights, and the aristocrat to commoner ratio was still roughly 50/50 in France.
>>46974516
interesting notion. what I'm trying to say is that theres no towns or cities in england currently called jannkgerferssundotermittenjorgen
>>46966934
That sounds bland as fuck
>>46969579
You can download a program called Gyazo.
>>46974535
Also, side note, artificial contraception was known in medieval France, at the very least.
(and the whole "protector of the widow and the orphan" schtick was actually pretty much a very interested thing for knights since being a widows' guardian could be a quick step up to the higher ranks of the nobility)
>>46974559
thats not true at all. Romans made organized military a thing back in the 200's. I forget the dudes name but he turned the military into a full paying job. to this day military's still use Roman organization and theories. You could say they perfected the art of war.
>>46974564
York is norse derived, if the original anglosaxon name was used it would be something like Forwich. A bunch of names like that in eastern england.
>>46974535
>happens out of desperation
Wrong, really. The Sarmatians and Alans had female warriors, and the Russians used female soldiers to pretty incredible effect in WW2. It's not necessarily desperation, more the culture.
>>46974609
>You could say they perfected the art of war.
no
>>46974609
The Marian reforms. Except by the end of the empire the professional roman military was increasingly not a thing as hiring barbarian mercs was more convenient when your recruit base prefers the priesthood to the army.
>>46974609
>still use Roman organization and theories
The corps and the division are Napoleonic.
The regiment and the battalion are early modern.
The company is an early modern improvement on the earliest late medieval professional armies.
No military rank in use today is derived from anything related to Rome. In fact that only countries that tried to do it are Revolutionary France (which canned it in 2 years in favor of a promotion system that just required would be officers to serve as privates), Fascist Italy (the less said the better) and Early post-independence Romania, which is about as irrelevant as a country can be on the european stage.
>>46974328
Its no coincidence that a lot of different cultures feature a hunting goddess, now if you want to argue that bow hunters aren't archers its just semantics.
Sure its a meme, but its practically an ancient meme that has truth in reality.
>>46974737
The greeks were admittedly salty about just about any form of warfare that wasn't hoplites and peltasts
Archers?
>Women with cut off boobs!
Cavalry?
>That saddle will turn your dick into a cunt, faggot!
The fact that it took Xenophon to figure out that pissing and moaning that the persians fought unfairly wasn't the solution is amazing.
>>46974695
>>46974650
If anyone perfected the "art of war", it was the Mongols, for a successful winter invasion of Russia, the subjugation of the Chinese dynasties, the unification of the Turco-Mongols of the steppe and the biggest contiguous land empire ever. Say what u will, but no one did it better than the Hordes (at least before gunpowder was a thing)
>>46974781
Greeks *did* use archers, I think in Plato's Dialogues one of the first three men- an Athenian I think? talks about how the rocky, hilly nature of the country makes it so the bow and the spear are preferred weapons
I think you might be thinking about the Spartans in particular- they absolutely refused to fight as anything other than heavy infantry; only their lame and crippled men rode as cavalry. They also considered the use of bows cowardice- an interesting parallel to later European knightly nobility, who also despised archery and crossbows.
>>46974839
I'm pretty sure Herodotus thought the women in persian armies were due to saddles sanding off their dick or some shit.
Also knights used crossbows, fwiw, but the church definitely did despise it.
>>46974650
>prefers the priesthood to the army
well, there's also the 16-year service, the liberal use of corporal punishment, and the fact that veterans were given no privileges, leading to several revolts of the Legions during the time of Augustus.
>>46974793
>at least before gunpowder was a thing
Russia aside (which had a hefty dose of tatar influence anyway, it's no coincidence the tsar's crown looks like a tatar prince's hat), even most of the gunpowder empires were turkic; the Ottomans were obviously turks, the Safavids were an Azeri dynasty, the Mughals were Uzbeks pretending to be pure Genghisid Mongols.
>>46974695
>The corps and the division are Napoleonic.
>The regiment and the battalion are early modern.
>The company is an early modern improvement on the earliest late medieval professional armies.
>No military rank in use today is derived from anything related to Rome.
all of them learned that from the Romans. everything in western military today goes back to Rome.
>>46974649
>no
yes. they perfected the hammer and anvil, to this day still one of the most effective and battle tested strategies.
>>46974781
saddles were adopted because it allowed cavalry to stand up while mounted, giving more power to their swings.
>>46974737
I will agree that ancient women were infinitely more badass than modern women, but I'm also inclined to believe that a lot of gods are female because it inspires soldiers.
>>46975129
>yes. they perfected the hammer and anvil
The hammer and anvil was Alexander the Great's military strategy of choice and the Romans made no particular use of it.
>saddles were adopted because it allowed cavalry to stand up while mounted, giving more power to their swings.
You mean the stirrup?
Anon, you literally have no idea what you're talking about, please, be quiet and go like... read a fucking book or something.You're trolling, aren't you
>>46972955
And yet despite your claims there are several ancient cultures which have legal codes predicated on the assumption that enough men would die in war that measures would need to be taken to provide for their widows and ensure the population.
>>46975160
I doubt that's the case for hunter goddesses, especially the virginal, maiden ones like Artemis/Dianna who had cults of young women devoted to them.
>>46966009
>Hey /tg/, what are some good ways to break away from the cliches in your typical totally-not-vikings culture?
Make not-janissaries instead.
>>46966188
Mostly correct until:
>By the time they were actually "Vikings" and raiding England and taking large parts of it over they had actually dropped their old deities for being Christian like pretty much the rest of Europe (outside of the Lithuania area) had.
The Danske, Norse and Swedes didn't start converting till St. Aidan's missions, and even then that was in the minority.
>>46966233
>Red dragon and a white
YOU CAN'T FOOL ME, ARTYR UTHERSSON!
>>46968039
Looting a corpse is okay. Raiding the burial hill is a good way to get outlawed or burnt alive.
>>46968165
Laddie, that's a Briton, or at the least a Pict.
>>46972955
But the first method of pillaging is taking the women.
Theirs a reason it's called child-wealth.
>>46971510
>The Suel were a sort of Romanesque empire that was split up and migrated; settling into a sort of feudal norse-like society
I KNEW Skyrim wasn't the first to do that.
Was wondering why it all felt so fucking familiar.
>>46975529
*There is
Fucking Macs.
>>46974397
>Women are however, capable of being superior assassins, simply because they can get naked and close to someone who wouldn't let anyone that wasn't naked and female close to him.
What if they're trying to kill a woman?
>>46975690
Then I can fantasize about assassinations.
>>46970738
>Norse practiced seidr, a ritualistic magic, and until the late Iron Age they were exclusively women. They were typically referred to as volva, and considered to have the seer's gift.
Male seidh practice was also considered as unmanly as enjoying getting assfucked.
So, of course, the male outlet for those energies was madness. Berserk, to be precise.
Or at least it would, if the myth lore was correct.
>>46974439
Bodyguards for women too, when eunuchs are not an option due to culture.
>>46975284
you understood what I meant so that either makes us both retarded or both normal, I'll let you decide.
Alexander also only won 12 battles and did not employ the hammer and anvil for his biggest ones. he mastered the art of shock, as well as sleight of hand.
>>46975357
If you want an example read the law of Moses in the old testament.
>>46968409
The world is a matriarchy.
They get to grow fat and die old while men die for their comfort. The most heinous crime is rape. Law is on their side on any matter of reproduction and heirship, because the estate you build is HERS, family is for the mothers, and they get to chose what genes subsist.
The smart women just keep men "in charge" to make the stupid women fight strawmen instead of try and usurp their power.
>>46966820
>Poc
>killing an old white dude
not very subtle is this?
>>46978491
Can /r9k/ keep its beta bullshit in check just five minutes?
>>46978869
Sure, you're more powerful than the sexual selector because scam artists calling themselves activists say you make 30 cents/hour more.
Good fucking goy.
>>46979139
I'm more powerful because more people take me more seriously.
I'm more likely to get a job. I'm vastly more likely to be successful in politics. People are more willing to believe me in most cases than a woman. If a story were to be made about me and my girlfriend, 99% of writers, filmmakers, executives, and producers would default to me as the main character. If I were to live anywhere but the western world, I'd have even more personal power.
Women are only the sexual selector to a certain degree. If you're good looking and not an idiot, most women are going to choose you, and you get to pick and choose.
You, frankly, are looking at this from the position of a beta.
Milk drinking isn't weird or girly like Skyrim would have you believe, it's actually fucking great if you wanna survive winter.
>>46972075
>tfw the Swiss pike square has faded into literally who territory
Hessians get all the nods these days.
>>46966009
> what are some good ways to break away from the cliches in your typical totally-not-vikings culture?
Actually using all of the source material and not just turning them into reaving metal album cover vikings.
No matter how cliché vikings are, the truth is that 90% of people have very little clue beyond "boats and I think some guy said they actually didn't have horns on their helmets maybe"
Every people can be interesting, if you just give them room to be more than the stereotypes. You don't need to reinvent vikings (what's the point in using the cliché as a jumping off point if you're going to throw it in the bin?) you just need to let players interact with them in different ways than usual.
Just do something other than token longship crew with axes and swords who are itching for a scrap.
>>46966009
If the 'Norse Aryan' theory of pan-Eurasian conquest is correct, what tied the proto-norse together was cowherding, and possibly taking hallucinogenic mushrooms that grew in their cow's shit.
Picture mongols but with cows or plains indians but the buffalo herds follow them. And the 'battle rage' feature of the barbarian warrior class has a little pharmaceutical help on a lad's first blooding.
>>46979303
Well said.
Unlike the Vikings of reality, your Not-Norse should actually have a strong scholarly tradition involving written text as opposed to an oral tradition. Records of raids and trading are checked and rechecked for accuracy and recorded for posterity. There is a firmly established record of lineage and kingship instead of every Thorvald, Ivar, and Bjorn claiming to be descended from legendary figures like Ragnar Lothbrok or Sigurd Fafnisbani.
>>46979686
>Which Erik was Leif's father again? The blue?
>>46974397
Sounds dubious to me, if you're an assassin I doubt you want your target constantly watching you. That and men with any sort of station of real power and authority are probably suspicious of women who they let their guard down around, sure you can be a good assassin but if your cover is already blown then you're not assassinating anyone.
>>46980825
Not if you count assassinating yourself
>>46966849
Barbary Corsairs. You just traded one stereotype for another, congratulations.
>>46978869
>>46979303
The western world is literally a matriarchy. The custody of the children defers to the head of the family. During the 1800s in England, it was decided that the mother should keep the children should there be a break-up. So this makes the woman the matriarch and the man fuck-all.
>>46969579
>>46969882
>>46974594
Or you can just press PrintScreen (PrtScr) just above the Insert key, paste it into an empty Paint file, crop it and save the image like an ordinary, not-retarded human being.
>>46981209
Snipping's way more easy
>>46969579
>doesn't know how to screenshot
PrintScreen and Ctrl+V. How does anyone not know this.
Instead of always just making them the big brutes that rape and pillage all day every day, do something different.
Make them elves or some shit.
>>46966849
>Far from mindless brutes, these raiders are tactical and methodical.
That's pretty much the Viking memo anyway.
>>46966009
There's other northern tribes. Look at Inuit culture and take some stuff from there, possibly Mongolian influences. They make loose, alcoholic yogurt from horse milk. Tell me you don't want your party getting drunk off semi-rotten horse juice.
>>46981203
Regardless of whether you exhumed an outdated definition of the word not widely used since late trias, or just made one up, language doesn't work like that, as anyone with the merest sliver of people skills will know.
