![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Mz8UlLH.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
Might /tg/ be interested in discussing the Lore in the Dark souls series?
Please feel free to post any LORE QUESTIONS, LORE THEORIES and any other LORE TIDBITS.
>>46952584
Why does reigniting the fire mean a cycle of oppression while snuffing it out means the end of reality and a rebirth into liberty? Wouldn't it be the other way around?
>>46953114
It's actually a rebirth into OH THE HUMANITY and endless suffering forever.
Hooray for DLC that makes things unambiguously grey/black instead of grey/grey!
>>46952584
Dark souls 3 is the Christmas Carol of existentialism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9x_koRZ2bA
Summary of first game's major lore points.
>>46953200
The gross dudes in the dlc that were once people were Mannis' fault, not the abyss. I'm pretty sure the abyss is to humanity what the grey eternity was to dragons, except where everyone goes hollow
>>46953245
Nope, the gross dudes in 2 and the final boss were also straight abyss. As are the guys in 3. There was an entire covenant made just to fight off the abyss. They'd torch entire countries for small infections because the abyss is literally and unambiguously trying to make things horrible for everyone and the only thing keeping it at bay is the Fire.
Yes, it's retarded that they made it this clear cut with the DLC (In 1 and 2, and presumably in 3 once it comes out), but that's the way it goes.
>>46953325
>As are the guys in 3
What guys?
>you will never hug Gwyndolin
Why even live?
>>46953424
Most of the guys at the Cathedral of the Deep are pretty abyss tainted. In fact, just about everything with "Deep" in the name can be considered at risk or already well over the edge. If you get yourself real hollowed through dark-sign fuckery, you are firmly marching into the Abyss and can meet some NPCs who are on that path as well.
Priscilla is the daughter of Nameless King and the Stormdrake. NK got dispossessed because he was a dragonfucker.
Velka pardoned NK, which earned her the enmity of the gods. It's also why neither NK nor Priscilla were killed.
Velka didn't approve of Priscilla getting imprisoned because she didn't commit any sins so Velka snuck some of her servants into Aramis to keep her company (raven demons, skelewheels, the knight, Jericho).
Velka raised Gwyndolin, that's why he so obsessed with sin.
Yorskha is the daughter of Gwyndolin and Seath (magic ain't gotta explain shit).
Lothric and Loren are Gwynevere and Oceiros' kids.
>>46954942
>>46953325
ABYSS DID NOTHING WRONG FIREKEKS FUCK OFF REEEEEEEEE
>>46952584
How does one become undead or recieve the mark exactly?
Fate? Just wake up with it one day? Catch it? Inflicted?
>>46955028
>Lothric and Loren are Gwynevere and Oceiros' kids.
THE QUEEN OF LOTHRIC IS NOT GWYNEVERE.
SHE IS A DAUGHTER OF GWYNEVERE, JUST LIKE THE DANCER.
>>46955103
The intro to dark souls 1 made it sound like it was just a thing some people had. So presumably you have it, then when you die you get back up and start going hollow.
Unless you're in DA FUTURE and end up as a worthless unkindled. Then you only get the mark if you accept some dark magic into your soul.
>>46955103
It shows up when you have enough Humanity in you, presumably, given that Humanity is fragments of the Dark Souls.
>>46955152
What's the bad side of this dark magic? Just never dying or something?
>>46955195
You start leaking souls and gradually go insane because of it.
>>46955195
You turn into beef jerky. On the upside, you get a harem.
>>46955190
So wait, let me get this straight.
You are born just a normal human, live a normal life, and if you are cursed, you die and become undead. If you are undead and don't have humanity, you go insane. If you have humanity, you receive the dark mark and can do Estus and bonfire stuff?
>>46955028
>People still don't remember that Gwynevere had a husband she left with and was probably fucking on the reg.
>>46952584
I dunno I guess the secret end was kind of a hot compromise for the end of the series
>>46955195
You eventually go insane. The more often you die, the faster you go insane. Consuming humanity (Or kindling your ember, if you're unkindled) can reverse it somewhat.
>>46955255
>People still don't remember that Gwynevere had a husband she left with and was probably fucking on the reg.
I've been saying that this entire thread, though.
She left Anor Londo to settle down with the Fire God Flann and had a LOT of children, since "several" typically means a whole lot of them.
Odds are Rosaria is a daughter of Gwynevere, and the Dancer was one of her children.
>>46955255
>fertility goddess
>isn't a huge slut
>>46955152
>worthless unkindled
I never really understood why these guys were worthless. It seems like being able to resurrect without going hollow is a pretty sweet deal and the Ashen One's power level appears to be beyond his predecessors' if the multiple Lord of Cinder kills are any indication.
>>46955331
She's a slut for her husband, anon.
>>46955343
They're worthless because they can't link the fire, anon.
>>46955343
Mostly because they literally can't be used to kindle the fire in their normal state and don't have that little bit of power from the old Pygmy. That's why unkindled need Intelligence and Faith to use pyromancy and nobody else does. They don't have any connection to the primordial Fire that keeps the world going. But pretty much everyone and everything else does, except for things that are super abyss tainted.
>>46955246
It's all a bit unclear.
Too much Humanity is bad, but too little Humanity is also bad. Humans are creatures of Dark who wish to live in the Fire.
Given that Estus is literally bottled fire, and it restores your life, some conclusion could be drawn there.
Also, Aldia, Vendrick and the Cursed One seem to have done something to the curse, which shows in 3; the Unkindled seem less awful than previous bearers of the Darksign.
>>46955432
I like how Aldia said the Age of Fire *and* the Age of Dark are fucking stupid.
Though it makes me want to see what "those who went beyond death" means.
>>46955432
What exactly happens when you have too much humanity?
>>46955502
Oolacile. New Londo. Any kind of Abyss bullshit.
Humanity is fragments of the Dark Soul. More humanity, bigger fragment.
>>46955502
Ever been to Oolacile?
>>46955548
I only played Darksouls 1 without DLC. I heard it's shit for PC, so I never bothered picking it up.
>>46955542
>>46955548
>>46955432
DELETE THIS
>>46955602
FUCK YOU KAATHE, GO BE AMBIGUOUSLY EVIL SOMEWHERE ELSE.
>>46955573
YOU TURN INTO THIS SHIT
OR WORSE
>>46955602
fuck off toothy serpent
you're worse than backstabber frampt
>>46955573
Remember the New Londo area with the Four Kings n shit?
That's what happened when Kaathe taught people how to gain assloads of Humanity, and the Darkwraiths started existing.
Reminder to protect waifuBy choosing the End of Fire
>>46955642
>>46955644
>>46955676
Excuse me, my fellow undead but I must point out that tragedies at New Londo and Oolacile are not indicative of the REAL nature of the Abyss and/or Darkness but were instead the products of Human greed gone awry. There is literally nothing wrong with either the Abyss or Darkness.
>>46955246
>If you have humanity, you receive the dark mark and can do Estus and bonfire stuff
Estus doesn't appear to be limited to the sane undead. Numerous hollow enemies throughout the games can and will stop for a sippy if injured.
>>46952584
I just got Dark Souls 3 and was wondering if playing the first two games are needed to understand this series. Where does Bloodborne fit into this also?
>>46956074
Bloodborne has nothing to do with the Souls series.
Dark Souls 1 should be played before 3. The two games are directly linked. 2 is not necessary to understand most of what you see in 3, there are only a few minor references in items. You will be missing out if you haven't played 1 before playing 3.
>>46956119
Sorry it's late and I should be going to bed soon. I'll try to get 1 and 2 soon.
>>46956074
Bloodborne and Demon's Souls aren't directly related to Dark Souls.
Relative to Dark Souls 3, Dark Souls 1 is ages ago (In the mythological sense of ages, with three or four entire pantheons of gods come and gone), Dark Souls 2 is slightly less ages ago (Still a pantheon or two), but also not as related. It's kind of off doing its own thing.
So why do you have to kill the Lords of Cinder in DaS3 again? Some kind of 'get the qualifications to open the kiln' type deal?
>>46956182
>So why do you have to kill the Lords of Cinder in DaS3 again?
You need the embers within their corpses to have enough kindling to reignite the First Flame.
>>46956205You still fail even with that, though.
>>46956182
No, more like they're a bunch of lazy/insane bastards and the thing you need to do doesn't actually need them to be conscious or alive, as long as their embers are still burning when you scrape them onto their chairs. Theoretically, they could just go there and sit themselves down like the one guy with no legs does, but then you wouldn't have as many bosses to fight.
>>46956178
Thanks, Anon. I don't want spoilers but thankfully I'll forget anything spoiler related with my tired self .
>>46956227
>Theoretically, they could just go there and sit themselves down like the one guy with no legs does, but then you wouldn't have as many bosses to fight.
Aldrich was fucking insane and lured to Anor Londo to feast on Gwyndolin's trap booty.
Yhorm already experienced what it's like to Link the Flame, and refused to have any of that.
The Abyss Watchers were too busy killing each other to really go to the Firelink Shrine.
Prince Lothric refused his duty and chose to sit in bed and wait for the world to die.
>>46956217
>you still fail
How so? Did I miss something in the cutscene?
>>46956297
>Yhorm already experienced what it's like to Link the Flame, and refused to have any of that.
He also would never have fit through the doors to Firelink Shrine in the first place.
>>46956303
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPXMR1DioZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_XhXDaCEpc
In one, flame everywhere, fire successfully restarted. In the other, you just sit there and smoulder a little.
>>46956297
Yes, but they could sit their asses down if they were motivated and it would work exactly the same as you sucking the ashes out with a straw and spitting them back up on the chairs.
>>46956371
explain the Usurpation ending to me
like does Man steal the Fire for themselves or something
>>46956371
I take the DS3 one as hammering in the fact that the world is living on borrowed time, and that linking the flame isn't going to make anything better.
I imagine that's why the Soul of Cinder is called that. All that's left of the First Flame is cinders.If it straight up failed, then the fire would fail to light at all.
But as with most things in a Souls game, it's a lot about your interpretation.
>>46956397
How are you going to motivate the big goopy goober to plop down on the chair without eating everyone in the Shrine.
>>46956478
someone checked the japanese and apparently 'cinder' is actually translated poorly and it's supposed to be more like kindling or fuel
>>46956517
You're not. But if you did somehow do it, then it would function exactly the same as if you beat the shit out of the giant cow plop and dumped its soul on the chair.
The guy who is already there is a good example. He's there, he's willing, his soul works for the ritual just fine without him dying first. The others could have done the same thing if they weren't a bunch of insane, unmotivated bastards.
>>46956517
Have the Abyss Watchers draw straws and feed the unlucky ones to him. Their throne doesn't appear to have nearly enough surface area for all of their asses anyway, so someone has to take a hit for the team.
>>46956533
http://pastebin.com/8SnskKPB
>Lords of Cinder 薪の王 Kindling lords 燃え殻の王
>The wording can mean that the lords, themselves, are kindling; That they're perishable items to be used to prolong the life of the flame.
>>46956478
>>46956297
Then we get to Ludleth of Courland. He's a special case.
>>46956297
>Aldrich was fucking insane and lured to Anor Londo to feast on Gwyndolin's trap booty
Aldrich knows what's good in life then. Damn. Now I don't wanna kill him.
>>46956178
Wait, Demon's Souls isn't related? I was under the impression Bloodborne was an entirely different game, but Demon's Souls seems pretty tied into Dark Souls as a precursor to DS1.
![darksouls2-drangleic[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7foQyGc.jpg "darksouls2-drangleic[1].jpg")
Bump with my most drastic and "out there" theory that I currently possess, but very deeply wish to share:
>The Kingdom of Lothric was heavily influenced by the survivors of Drangleic and their lord and chosen undead who may have very well been the original descendent of the "lothric line".
>The Bearer of the Curse from Dark souls 2's canon ending was the abandonment of fire and darkness; instead opting out to wander the land in search of a permanent cure to the undead and an end to the cycle due to the constant prompts from aldia.
>In his adventures he amassed and salvaged what he could out of Drangliec and brought with him many followers including taking the emerald herald as his wife/mate/queen.
>The Bearer of the Curse eventually found his way to Anor Londo bringing his own ideologies and a few relics of his abandoned homeland and neighboring kingdom.
>They introduced the kingdom to the techniques and methods of dragon breeding, taming and riding- forming their own dragonknights as reminiscent of Drangleic. Something that would be foreign to a land devoted to HUNTING Dragons.
>They also carried on the custom of using "chimes" as opposed to talismans.
>The Caitha Chime and "Red tearstone ring" may be found in Lothric castles: heirlooms to the Drangleic known god of Caitha; goddess of tears.
>The personal scholar to prince lothric may have also have been a sorceror from Drangleic; a peculiar man who possessed foreign powerful sorceries while espousing his own lack of faith in the cycle of fire.
>Most importantly though The Bearer of The Curse brought with him the green emerald's DRAGON BLOOD: Ocerius the consumed king is a direct descendant of the two' coupling and at some point found out of the green emerald's inception via dragons- becoming obsessed with his draconic destiny.
>What's more, there still remains the Lion Knight Albert in the Archives who bears a shield from Drangleic and the Faraam knight's armor and is loyal to the lothric family.
>>46956725
No, separate settings.
>>46955103
Unclear. It just kind of shows up on some people, though Solaire also indicates that the Dark Sign can be contracted willingly ("I became undead to pursue this.")
>>46956730
This is actually pretty good. Drangleic is clearly in a different location than Lordran, and there are plenty of links.
Perhaps the hijacking of the fire-linking by Aldia and the Bearer of the Curse's rejection is why the Unkindled and Lords of Cinder were put into place, to make sure no one could interfere?
>>46956182
They're beings who linked the flame in previous cycles, and now they aren't returning to their thrones to do it again for one reason or another.
>>46956709
Is it the partwith him making a pocket dimension to unfuck everything?
>>46956938
We better get to see Aldia's end-goal in DLC and meet that glorious bastard again.
SOTFS was probably the best Souls game in the series in terms of lore and plot, and much of that is because of him.
>>46957472
Firelink Shrine is not a pocket dimension, it's a separate world or set in the past.
>>46957789
How is it a separate world or set in the past? You can literally look up and see Lothric right there next to the Cemetery of Ash.
>>46957789
What's the deal with Firelink between DS1 and DS3? They're nothing alike, geographically or structurally.
How do I stick my Pickle Pee in your Pump a Rum?
>>46953229
My Fucking Nigger
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZOUE04X.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>46956730
Bumping with another one that's a lot more obvious, but still some people haven't observed:
>Champion Gundyr was an unkindle/chosen undead much like the PC was but during his time he was too late: The fire had faded early and the fire keeper was dead -possibly because she had eyes and meant to betray the flame the whole time-
>Champion Gundyr however contemplates what he will do in one of the last bonfires available; the old fire maiden telling him that even though the fire faded and souls fade in the darkness tiny little embers still exist in the darkness.
>One such tiny ember confronts him: The Player character.
>Champion Gundyr recognizes their power and soul and reasons killing them might be an opportunity to end the darkness, but they end up being slain themselves and their own soul(s) stolen.
>ALTERNATIVELY:It might have also been the "Sword Master" who kills Champion Gundyr as he is another "tiny ember" in the darkness seeking worthy foes persistently. He owned the legendary "chaos blade" during the time of darkness, but in the "future/present" he seems to have lost it- perhaps due in part to the PC looting the blade at the tower.. and also quite possibly why he remains there in the future.
>With his defeat champion Gundyr chains himself up and impales himself upon the faded coiled bonfire sword: he reasons that one day a champion will arise in a time to link the fires and his hollowed body will test their might as he accepts his fate and lets the abyss take him.
>>46954355
He's a man anyway.
Unless you're into that sort of thing.
>>46958322
With firebombs, black firebombs and the pretty coloured rocks you drop down holes.
>>46955644
Gotta love how they basically just upscaled this fella and added some more limbs for the Amygdala.
>>46952584
Can someone like, tell me what the fuck is going on with the sun in Souls 3
>>46958995
Long story short, the world is fucked and is about to end.
![Dark%20Souls%20-%20Gwyndolin%201[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/MTX2ggF.png "Dark%20Souls%20-%20Gwyndolin%201[1].png")
>>46958898
>>46956730
Also here's what I think -generally- happened with Gwyndolin:
>Gwyndolin was left alive and untouched after the events of Dark Souls 1.
>Gwyndolin survived as the only remaining god left alive in Anor Londo and not knowing what to do attempted to rebuild Anor Londo as best he could: guiding the humans, reclaiming many miracles, establishing the kingdom once more and so on and so forth.
>Gwyndolin however was not his father and neither was he Gwynevere; he could not replicate the warmth and INCANDESCENCE of his siblings and instead produce the snowy hinterland of the arboreal valley- the whole land of anor londo plunged into constant twilight by his crescent moon influence.
>The Lord of Cinder title was also established by Gwyndolin: Reasoning that the fire would obviously die down once more, he built up the infrastructure and the title/ceremony of the lord of cinder to produce rightful heirs of fire and so forth so the fire could be linked again and again.
>Gwyndolin eventually even managed to bring back some of his siblings: quite possibly even marrying off his sister Gwynevere(or an unknown neice) to the rival king Ocerius in Lothric who at the time had been an enemy to anor londo due to their distrust for the gods.
>However this all ended when the "Church of The Deep" proclaimed themselves lords over the Ithrily valley and cast-aside Gwyndolin as the "old royalty". Abusing their position to ostracize any one descendant of the Gods.
>Their big power play finally came when Aldritch climbed out of his coffin during Dark Souls 3 and with the help of Oontiff Sulyvahn ATE Gwyndolin.
>>46959046
You know....more then usual.
Really, the world is about to end a LOT in Dark Souls. I think that's why From Software is ending the series officially (though I imagine they'll just make a new series of similar stylings), because they can't just have EVERY game be about the slow ending of the world ALL the time.
>TFW you recognized the resemblance after seeing the scene at the Kiln
>>46958995
>>46959046
>>46959294
The Sunis a massive DARKSIGN
>>46959294
Is that really at all surprising?
Miyazaki is really up-front about his visual references and cues, he just knows how to make good use of them.
>>46956477
you decide everyone being hollows is the shit and usher in the age of beef jerky men with Anri and Yuria as your waifus.
You are also probably are Kaath's bitch
>>46955028
Yorshka specifically calls Gwynevere her sister and Gwyn her father.
What system would you use to run a heavily Dark Souls inspired game? (i.e. heavy and deadly combat with exploration in a nigh on post-apocalyptic setting and a side of soul redemption)
>>46959492
No idea. Something homebrewed? Riddle of Steel, maybe?
I could work with the themes and visuals just by doing D&D 5e without much effort on my part, but replicating the mechanics faithfully enough to make it feel the same gameplay-wise (and gameplay is 90% of the Souls series) I honestly don't have an actual answer for off the top of my head.
>>46952584
so how come bloodborne has so much better lore?
>>46959568
>homebrew
I was thinking of making a homebrew based upon the board game coming out. The mechanic of stamina being tied to health and so forth feels like a good start.
>>46959575
Less continuity to be stuck with.
Less 'time is mysterious' bullshit.
Generally more descriptive locations.
Wayyyyy more atmosphere.
>>46955309
Is there any reason why Rosaria might not just be a corrupted Gwynevere? I don't remember any evidence that she even died
>>46959294
Well I certainly wasn't thinking about Nasu's bleeding anus at the time
>>46959575
Weather you LIKE the lore of Bloodborne or not is subjective, which you already know because you are not an idiot.
But if you mean the depth and heavy visual aids absolutely everywhere in Bloodborne used to sprinkle the area with the lore?
That actually has more to due with Yharnam having a unified visual aesthetic and thus rather then spending lots of time designing new areas (mountains, castles, prisons, ruins, fortresses, cities, lava caves, icy peaks, etc) they can design just a few and then FILL them with lots of visual aids to explain the story and work them into the lore of the setting because they pretty much already knew what they were going to be doing with the level's appearance well before they even got around to texturing it.
Basically, it's a lot less work providing the necessary detail when you have only three or so environments to work with (Gothic Victorian Cityscape, Haunted-as-Fuck Forest, Epic Gothic Cathedrals, and crumbling Victorian schools) and you can focus on adding the little touches here and there, like for example....an item found in exactly the right spot on a grave on a hill where an NPC prays sometimes.That blew my fucking mind when I put that one together.
>>46959649
>an item found in exactly the right spot on a grave on a hill where an NPC prays sometimes.
>That blew my fucking mind when I put that one together.
I'm not sure who you're talking about here. Who are you talking about?
>>46959444
"Father Gwyn" and "Sister Gwynevere" hardly sound familial. They're titles.
>>46959679
The Plain Doll in the Hunter's Dream prays at a specific grave every once in awhile when you return to the Dream. It's never explained who's grave this is.
In the Abandoned Workshop (the area that is the real-world version of what the Hunter's Dream represents) in that same grave the Old Hunter's Bone is placed, which gives you access to the Quickening ability that lets you do short teleport-jumps instead of rolling. Though the English text uses the word "he" to describe the Old Hunter who was an apprentice to Gerhman the bone belongs to, in Japanese it uses a nonspecific pronoun meaning "this person" rather then he or she.
In the Old Hunter's DLC you find Lady Maria in the Hunter's Nightmare, who is obviously the physical basis for the Living Doll. She uses the Quickening art like several other older hunter characters who rely on mobility, but unlike every single other character you fight with it she does NOT do the "use item" physical movement when she activates it....she just does it. In addition, the grave you use to teleport in and out of the DLC after you reach it is the grave the Doll prays at.
The suggestion is that the grave belonged to Lady Maria and the Plain Doll is effectively praying at the grave of the person her physical appearance was based on, weather she knows it or not (I'm guessing not).
And all of this without a single line of dialogue spoken about the subject.
>>46960028
What's most impressive is that they set up much of the revelations surrounding Lady Maria WELL ahead of the release of the DLC itself though items related to the Doll and such.
>>46960028
It's because of this and the connection the doll is hinted at having with Maria in the nightmare that I like to believe it was Gehrman that went to the old hamlet and killed the Kos Orphan in the real world.
>>46960028
#betterthanDarksouls
I kid, of course, but what are Dark Soul equivalent moments to this?
I still need to sit down and do a Demon's Souls campaign, since I think it's more conductive to working especially to a party style concept.
Not sure what RPG system to use though.
>>46960063
I also need to figure out a real punishment for dying, something that makes my players want to avoid it.
They'd be the Demon's Souls style immortal, but just with something to make them actually fear death.
>>46960048
I think this is extremely likely, given Gehrman was around at the time (and presumably was a much younger man back then) and he was the First Hunter and the events of around the hamlet and the body of Kos was discovered.
>>46960055
I honestly can't think of many, because like I said setting up this kind of nonverbal almost entirely visual storytelling takes a LOT of time and the more time you have to spend designing new areas on top of everything else you do when making the game the less time you have to set up the little bits like that.
I think the Artorias of the Abyss DLC for Dark Souls has bits like that when you finally figure out exactly what happened to Londo and who the hell this "Artorias" guy was. Plus also that the Age of Dark is probably a REALLY bad thing in the long run for the human race.
Other then that? The final boss of DS3.
The VERY SPECIFIC moves he uses tell an entire story about him/it that if you're familiar with the series you can put together without much effort, all without saying a word of dialogue.
>>46960089
I'm still a little peeved that the weapon transposed from that fight's weapon art wasn't it switching between all of the forms the boss used.
>>46960048
Oh another reason to suspect this; the Orphan of Kos's humanoid appearance (I suspect that in the real world the Orphan never grew up and was killed at birth given that the Japanese name for it is "The Child, Grown Old") is different from the other Great Ones, and it's weird....placenta-blade thing is basically an organic Trick Weapon more or less, suggesting in the nightmare it's "mimicking" the thing that killed it, namely a hunter.
The Orphan uses it's blade both like a short weapon and as a long-ranged cutting weapon in whip-like arcs, very much like how Gerhman's Burial Blade is both a shorter scimitar and a scythe.
>>46960117
I personally don't think that's too necessary, but I can get how that might annoy you a bit.
>>46960135
I just think that would have been a lot cooler is all.
I really like weapons with non-standard movesets.
>>46960126
does that mean that Gerhman maybe used to have some wing-like mechanisms like the Orphan 'emulated'?
>>46960159
I don't think so.
The thing is MIMICKING Hunters, it doesn't mean it's copying it down to a T. Gerhman wasn't nine feet tall when he was younger as far as we know.
>>46959692
>calls someone father
>not familial
She would have to say 'Our Father' for it to be a title, like you say 'Our Holy Father'.
That's also an absolutely terrible deflection. You know your theory is weak when you need to come up with reasons why straightforward sentences aren't.
Pontiff did nothing wrong.
I love Dark Souls 3 lore threads but what the fuck does this have to do with /tg/, you dumbass?
>>46960167
Possibly raised by Gwyndolin as an adopted sister.
This isn't /tg/ related.
>>46956709
>I may be small but I will die a colossus
Manlets, when will they learn?
>>46957817
>How is it a separate world or set in the past?
Dark Firelink Shrine is set in an alternate dimension where the bell never tolled to rise the Lords of Cinder and the Unkindled.
>>46960192
Then hide the thread, child-molester.
>>46960202
I think he was more lieutenant Dan than Danny Devito
>>46958291
Time and Space is converging in Lothric. There are like 3 different Firelink Shrines.
>>46960224
Except it's physically connected to the rest of the world and Ludleth comments on having been there once.
If it were an alternate dimension you would have travelled there in phantom form, not human form.
>>46959692
"Dear brother, forgive me..." Is her death cry.
Gwyndolin is not her father.
>>46960190
Possible, but is there actually any reason to believe she isn't a true (presumably half) sibling?
>>46960202
>tfw you'll never become gym-buddies with Yhorm
>>46960248
>Possible, but is there actually any reason to believe she isn't a true (presumably half) sibling?
Gwyndolin is explicitly stated as being Gwyn's last born.
Yorshka is very clearly Gwyndolin's junior.
Also the only person Gwyn could fuck to create a dragon hybrid is Seath, and that's not how biology works.
>>46960166
well his sword wasn't a placenta either, and also not as big that a nine feet tall being can use it comfortably. Where do the wings come from then? they seem very unusual, considering it's mother.
>>46960261
>that's not how biology works.
Crystal Magic, mang.
Not even once.
>>46960261
>Gwyn could fuck to create a dragon hybrid is Seath
Or Priscilla. Far more likely Priscilla is the mother with Gwyn being the implied father.
>>46960084
I'm preparing a heavily ds inspired d&d campaign. Death means permanent CON burn, only way of restoring it is by leveling up. Burn all your CON and you become a mindless hollow.
>>46960192
wow, pedophile much?
Did DS3 make Andre of Astoria anything more than an awesome blacksmith?
>>46960278
Sounds neat. I may lift that for a campaign someday
>>46960278
That's significantly more harsh than the penalty in dark souls, and kind of awful if you plan to make it really easy to die
>>46960319
Normally you'd pay a lot and lose a level to revive, so it's still a good deal.
>>46960310
Nope. He's just a smith that likes what he does. He doesn't really have much to say one way or another
>>46960346
>Normally you'd pay a lot and lose a level to revive, so it's still a good deal.
Only if you're playing a shitty edition like 3.X. In 5e, you just get a penalty to your dice rolls that goes away over the next few days.
>Dark Souls
>lore
You mean whatever VaatiVidya and the other fanfiction writers come up with?
What is the deal with Londor? If they have ties to Kaathe and the Dark, how are they still Hollow if they should be swimming in Humanity?
>>46956178
The continent of Drangleic is also literally on the opposite side of the world from Lordran/Lothric apparently, so I wouldn't expect much crossover.
>>46960780
Really? One wonders how the hell Lucatiel's armor and mask ended up in Lothric, then.
>>46956643
>aldrich is literally named eldritch
Honestly, I'm glad they changed it. Eldritch sounds silly as a name and it's obviously no more than a reference to his Lovecraftian nature.
>>46960822
The Souls series as a whole are a bundle of references to other things.
>>46956643
>profaned capital was city of sin
I thought Japanese doesn't have the concept of sin, only of impurity.
>>46960855
Apparently they do, because Velka exists.
![reversal_ring[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I1AqcQF.jpg "reversal_ring[1].jpg")
>>46958899
>>46960310
He explicitly mentions knowing the giant blacksmith from DS1. That's about it.
>>46960855
It's been 471 years since Francis Xavier first landed on Japan.
That's plenty of time to have figured out how to say "sin" in Japanese given that as a rule evangelicals and people trying to spread the faith tend to talk about the concept a whole lot.
>>46952584
fuck off Vaati, go find somewhere else to steal your ideas from
>>46960791
That's not specifically Lucatiel's stuff. What I want o know is why Great Tree with Cursed Stomach's soul makes a Mirrah Greatsword.
>>46960867
You know, I was SURE Velka would show up in DS3 given how often she's been brought up before how often the other deities have played important roles in the storyline.
>>46960916
Alright, I getcha.
I was listening to a Japanophile and an Evangelist having an argument recently, I guess I misinterpreted "sin isn't a concept native to Japanese culture."
>>46960926
There's a statue in the Settlement sewers, which serves the same function as the pardoner.
>>46960923
Sorry for slowpoke, but who the fuck is Vaati?
Sounds like an Indian name or something.
>>46960926
She does.
>>46960924Lucatiel's specific mask can be gained from Pickle Pee if you trade a Vertebra Shackle
>>46960939
Guy who stole a bunch of lore, speculation, and Easter egg finds from /dsg/ and the Fextralife and made mas (modest) YouTube shekels off it.
>>46960932
It isn't (at least not in the Christian sense), but that doesn't mean they don't know how to SAY it at least.
Sushi isn't a food native to American culture and there's a sushi shop a block away from where I live.
>>46960954
The crows never mean anything, after all, what are the implications of Smooth & Silky giving you a Demon Great Hammer.
>>46960956
Ah, okay.
I don't really know shit about YouTube videogame celebrities or whatever you want to call them, that always seemed kinda like a waste of time to me.
>>46960961
No, I know, I'm just explaining why I was confused for a sec.
>>46960974
He and EpicNameBro are good places to find shit like that when you don't feel like digging through six years of forum posts.
>>46954942
Its interesting to note that "the Deep" is a Dark that is different from the Abyss and Humanity. So it's a Dark unrelated to the Dark Soul.
>>46960987
You could also just....put shit together yourself I guess? I mean, that's what I did.
I'm not a genius or anything but if I went looking for someone ELSE to tell me "teh deepest lore" then that kind of defeats the point of me being interested in it at all, the joy of discovering it for myself and figuring out based on clues given in the games.
Why bother reading the book if you're just planning on skipping to the final chapter so to speak?
>>46961014
nah, it's just another translation error. German translation team worked directly off of the Japanese version like the English one, but they're less shit at internal consistency so muh Deep is actually translated as "der Abgrund", just like the Abyss is/was. Because it's the fucking Abyss.
>>46961041
I thought the church of the deep was related to the age of deep waters that is supposed to come after the age of fire
>>46961041
>Being this stupid
So every mention of the Deep, is actually meant to say Abyss as well?.
>>46961091
>Age of Deep Waters
>Miyazaki is a Berserk fanboy
Prep those sails lads, we're getting on the boat.
>>46959331the universe is undead
holey fuck, man
>>46953114
Humans possess fragments of the Dark Soul, representing darkness. Constantly reigniting the flame is just keeping the dark from having its own age... the Age of Dark is literally the Age of Humanity, where humans rule instead of the gods. By reigniting the flame and continuing the Age of Fire, you're keeping the gods in power and keeping humanity from having its chance to rule, all the while prolonging the suffering of everything and everyone in the world, since you're basically forcing a dying world to stay alive far longer than it was meant to.
Of course, we've seen first hand what happens when darkness and humanity rule unchecked (Oolacile, New Londo, etc...), so that's not necessarily the best outcome. But you're still definitely choosing oppression over freedom, it's just that there's no real way to be certain which of the two is actually the best option, if either of them even are at all.
>>46955259
It's not dying that drives you hollow, it's losing purpose. People go hollow when they no longer have a reason to live, when they lose that drive that keeps them pushing forward despite hardship. Pretty much everyone that hollows in the games does so after they lose the will to go on... Solaire when he repeatedly fails to find his sun, Siegmeyer when he realizes how hopeless he is as an adventurer, Crestfallen spends the entire game slowly sinking further into depression.
Now, dying over and over again is likely to cause you to lose your will to go on pretty quickly, so it's not like the two have no link at all... but theoretically, anyone with a strong enough will or a good enough reason to keep going (like the chosen undead, assuming you don't "go hollow" by giving up on the game entirely) can die as many times as they want and still not go hollow.
>>46961041
The terms are completely distinct in Japanese
深淵 is the abyss
深み is the deep
>>46955152
But that's wrong.
All unkindled have the dark sign, you start with it in your inventory and the description makes it clear you have it. It's just that for some reason Unkindled don't HOLLOW like other bearers of the brand.
>>46955103
The darksign is a manifestation of the state of the world, everything in dark souls is tied, metaphorically and literally to the fire. In a real sense the First Flame is the anchor to the world, or at least humanoid civilisation. As the flame stutters and dies, the people that are around at the time begin to revert back to the primordial state they were before the fire, i.e. hollows.
To an in universe observer this probably looks like a spreading disease because they have no other way of rationalising the spread of it, hence why it's called the undead plague, etc.
Also, there are some hints you can purposely create undead, Leeroy is described as the "first undead produced by the way of white" but it's unclear if this just means he was the first person they know of to turn undead or if they experimented on him in some way and therefore turned him undead themselves.
>>46959492
I think GURPS would do a decent job: the combat has enough tactical depth to get a similar feel, in that caution, positioning, and timing are important. It can be as brutally deadly as you want it, too. It has a built-in system for building your own attacks that would do well to model Souls spellcasting. And a recent article was put out that even has a "Not Technically Dark Souls" setting, including ideas on how to model characters reviving after death.
>>46959575
Because you like gothic and/or cosmic horror more than you like dark fantasy.
>>46961324
>People still don't realize there's a difference between the Dark Sign that you start with and the Dark Sigils that Yoel can bestow upon you
>>46960167
So I guess all the priests at my local Catholic church are literally my fathers? And don't even get me started on counting all the monks and nuns in the world... well, I've always wanted to have a big family, I guess now I get to have one!
Or, another thought occurs... you could just be a fucking dumbass who doesn't know what you're talking about.
>>46961382
She calls Gwyndolin her older brother when you talk to her after ranking up in darkmoon. "My older brother", not 'Brother Gwyndolin"
And, you have to use a capitalisation for your local catholic priest. It is Father Bob, not father Bob.
You should probably fact check before you sperg out, kiddo.
>>46961015
Yeah but most people don't want to think and can't wrap their heads around the games, especially DeS and DkS, not having absolute truths for everything.
So you end up with twats that believe open lore has an absolute answer and give everyone who doesn't agree with [INSERT LORE GUY HERE] massive shit. EVEN when one of those lore guys says not to do it.
I have a lore question: How do we reconcile Dark Souls 2 with Dark Souls 3?
Dark Souls 3 have a ton of callbacks to Dark souls 1, specifically places, characters, countries (Catarina, Vinheim, Carim, Astora etc) who were all but forgotten/unknown in Dark Souls 2. Dark Souls 3 should clearly be after Dark souls 2 though, because it also features things from that game (items mainly) So... things that were prominent in Dark souls 1 are forgotten in dark souls 2, then suddenly fade back into prominence in dark souls 3?
This cannot really work out unless either: Drangleic is not the vicinity of Lordran (different continent? The giants "from across the sea" in DS2 are actually from Lordran?), DS2 is actually in the far future of both DS1 and DS3, when no semblance of memory of DS1's locations etc is retained, OR DS2 is now retconned out.
And yes I know, DS2 wasn't directed by Miyazaki himself and that was always gonna make the game less important than the other two
>>46961550
Drangleic is literally on the opposite side of the world from Lordran, and Lothric is a convergence of time and space.
>>46961550
What I wonder, how do unique items wind up across the world all in a single place?
>>46961643
Ok, how can you link the fire from the throne of want, halfway across the world from the kiln of the first flame?
>>46961659
because people with items make journey's?
>>46961679
>how can you link the fire from the throne of want
You don't?
>>46961685
So, someone killed the Chosen Undead and looted his corpse and box?
>>46961679
The Kiln is a pocket dimension.
>>46953424
Farron's Undead Legion
>>46961550
A theory I heard is that Lordran is like a giant cosmic hot air balloon, and so long as there is flame, the universe stays puffed out and time and space work as we'd expect them to in our world.
But when the flame starts to fade, time and space start contracting, and you start getting wierd shit where ancient lore and heroes start appearing in the present, distant locales end up next to each other, and everything starts to go wrong.
In DS3, the world is in its worst state ever, so spacetime is fucked harder than ever before.
>>46961695
You're suggesting it isn't possible to link the fire in ds2?
>>46961550
Dark Souls 2 is not canon
>>46961718
They WATCH the Abyss, they're not tainted by it themselves. Or do you think Firefighters are also made of fire?
>>46961752
All the references in DS3 beg to differ.
Hell, they even took the entire throne bit.
>>46959085
They're already working on a new IP, hopefully they keep the core gameplay the same. but i'm looking forward to seeing new settings and plots
>>46961769
I think he means they were driven mad by it like Artorias was.Definitely explains why they wouldn't take the throne.I was genuinely hoping that after you killed the Lords of Cinder they would physically sit on the thrones and become new NPC's.
>>46961778
Don't worry, anything Miyazaki works on is guaranteed to take massive cues from Berserk.
>>46961550
DS 3 is just a lazy mish-mash of old assets made playable. "Lore" is the bullshit that came after. The only game worthy of boasting actual subtle lore is Dark Souls 1.
>>46961772
Lord of Cinder thrones =/= Throne of Want
>>46961787
I thought they just didn't want to leave because High Lord Wolnir was still at large down in Carthus? Because I'm pretty sure Wolnir is Abyss-tainted as hell and his dungeon entrance is directly behind the Abyss Watcher boss room.
>>46961550
>I have a lore question: How do we reconcile Dark Souls 2 with Dark Souls 3?
I actually already posted my personal theory about just this topic right here: >>46956730 Which you can read if you're interested.
>This cannot really work out unless either: Drangleic is not the vicinity of Lordran (different continent? The giants "from across the sea" in DS2 are actually from Lordran?), DS2 is actually in the far future of both DS1 and DS3, when no semblance of memory of DS1's locations etc is retained, OR DS2 is now retconned out.
Drangleic is across the Ocean.
The Land of Giants is Lordran.
The Treasure stolen from the Giants there is their lord souls, their secret of golems and quite possible their lordvessel among many other possible treasures specific to their land.
>>46961679
>Ok, how can you link the fire from the throne of want, halfway across the world from the kiln of the first flame?
Maybe the linking of the flame is localized?
Maybe each continent or nation has it's own "flame"?
The construction of the throne of want made it look as though it was some sort of kiln that had been used for generations what with all the built up ash on the inside, so who the fuck really know.
>>46961807
>I thought they just didn't want to leave because High Lord Wolnir was still at large down in Carthus?
Why they fightin' each other?
>>46960924
It's tied thematically but that's about the best justification you can make, Lucatiel is emblematic of "the curse" as described in Dark Souls 2 and specifically her sword (or her brothers sword rather) is pretty heavily drenched in it because it's so central to her mental state. There are theories that say that the "aslatiel of mirrah" that invades in Aldia's keep is a hollowed Lucatiel who can't remember her name and names herself after the name on her sword, not remembering that this is the name of her brother.
So the whole thing is kind of metaphorically important.
Bigger questions arise from things like the fact you make Havel's Ring from the soul of the Stray Demon, again you can basically only connect it thematically, since the Stray Demon in this game seems to be connected to rock or stone.
>>46961827
Sparring?
>>46952584
What if the age of dark is how everything played out in our real life past? Monsters stop existing the gods die and its only humanity left.
>>46961855
but anon we are the monsters
>>46961827
they're definitely mad from being too close to the Abyss but they don't wanna abandon their duty. conflict of interests
>>46961855
There would be no sun in the sky if this were the case.
Also I don't know many mile high trees, do you?
>>46961888
I live near Sequoia, but point taken.
>>46961888
Smoldering Lake was such bullshit.
What are the untended graves? When are they? Are they in the past? Are they in the future?
Champion Gundyr seems to be a past version of Judge Gundyr. But within the graves' version of the untended graves we find the remains of a firekeepr... one that has eyes. Now this wouldn't be interesting unless you consider where exactly you find them, namely in the exact location where Irina of Carim is in the 'present'. Irina of Carim, for her part, seems like a questionable nun... knowing very few tales of miracles on her own... and frankly, only posing to be blind.
>>46961955
I always just assumed that Gundyr was his race or something.
>>46961955
>knowing very few tales of miracles on her own
She's a failure.
>only posing to be blind
What?
>Aldrich is gwynevere's husband (i remember he was some god of fire or whatever)
>As they escape anor londo, they settle in the cathedral of the deep, being of course worshipped as gods/saints
>Aldrich starts eating people because why not
>Gwynevere becomes rosaria under the influence of her husband deep sea thing
>After Aldrich wakes up, he remembers that there is a god in anor londo that could be quite tasty
>>46959492
I've been tempted just to rip a lot of stuff straight out of the games. Theres numbers, stats, enemies, weapons, armour, everything you'd need. Tweak slightly for dice input, maybe add a few additional stats to cover out of combat interactions, and then go wild.
>>46962025
Definitely not true. Aldrich was just some dude who started eating other dudes one day, before eventually moving onto gods. Gwynevere also fucked off somewhere to lead a happy life, apparently.
>>46962025
It's confirmed multiple times that Aldritch was a normal man before he began eating people.
He began eating more and more men and was named a lord of cinder due to his power and was banished into the cathedral of the deep because everyone else found him disgusting and repulsive as he had bloated up into this monstrosity.
Aldritch eventually though -as he dreamed in his tomb- envisioned a third age one devoid of darkness and fire and one of the deep, deep, ocean- a darkness and depth greater than that produced alone by humanity.
Aldritch assumed that in order to survive this transition that he would need to become something more and journeyed to Anor Londo to consume the last god: Gwyndolin (and maybe Nito? I'm not 100% sure.)
I'm unsure of Rosaria's connection into all of this, but you'll notice that Rosaria is LOCKED behind bars in a cage in the Deep Cathedral.
Was she locked there to keep her safe until Aldritch could eat her? Or perhaps she was locked up because she's the goddess of rebirth and could be the only god capable of changing Aldritch into what he needed to become? Or maybe he saw Rosaria as a THREAT?? Who knows.
Also Aldritch was never married and it's heavily implied Gwynevere or someone like her was with Ocerius.
My question is why are all of the Abyss Watchers lords and not just say their leader?
>>46961955
Ludleth of Courland, hanging out at Firelink Shrine, has a vision of the future
>Gundyr awakes
>marches off to Firelink Shrine
>gets sidetracked and doesn't make it in time
>flame goes out, Firekeeper dies, Ludleth dies
>world's fucked
>years(?) later, Gundyr is finally put out of his misery by apossibly time travellingunknown warrior, visiting this version of Firelink Shrine (aka "Untended Graves")
Of course, Ludleth doesn't want to let this happen, since he knows it's only gonna be a matter of time until an Unkindled arrives to fix everything
>Ludleth links the Fire himself
>becomes a Lord of Cinder
>buys more time for the Unkindled One to arrive
>Gundyr STILL gets sidetracked because he's an idiot or something
>because of Ludleth changing the circumstances, something happens that makes Gundyr succumb to the Abyss
>the Unkindled One awakes and puts Gundyr out of his misery
Ludleth's sacrifice either created a pocket dimension in which the Unkindled still had time to rise OR he actually changed the real world and Untended Graves is the parallel dimension that was somehow pulled into Lothric. I personally subscribe to the first one since Firelink Shrine isn't physically connected to any other area.
Gundyr was supposed to meet the Unkindled One at Firelink Shrine and help them go after the Lords of Cinder, hence his titles of Champion (his equipment even refers to him as "the Belated Champion") and Iudex (meaning "judge" in Latin, possibly a hint at what he was supposed to do with the Lords once you got to them OR hinting at the Abyss warping his thoughts, so he believed he was meant to judge whether you were worthy of entering Firelink). However, Gundyr not making it in time and getting corrupted seems to be a universal constant. Basically, the whole world almost got fucked over hard because everyone was depending on an unreliable asshole.
Discuss.
>>46962025
Aldrich may have become a flan, but he's not Flann the Flame God. There's a difference
>>46959492
Song of Swords, that one Riddle of Steel influenced RPG that some guys on this very board are writing?
>>46962078
four kings
but also its specifically stated that the leaders shared a single soul, through the partaking of wolf's blood.
which would be the soul of the wolf blood's master, Artorias.
>>46962100
oh cool thanks, no complains here it made for a fun fight. Any idea where its said that they have a shared soul?
>>46962114
their boss soul
>>46962137
well shit I should learn to read
>>46962067
Japanese text from the Divine Blessing item description heavily implies that Queen Lothric was not in any way divine and that the people of Lothric only *thought* she was because she gave them healing potions that had her own tears mixed into them. That's pretty clear in the Japanese version. These Divine Blessings probably also had a bunch of other shit in them that produced the healing effect, Lothric peasants were just too ignorant to know or care. "Tears of the Queen" could've possibly been just a marketing stunt to convince people to drink Divine Blessings - similar things happened in real life with actual medicine being sold to people of low education as a gift of God to make them accept it, since they didn't trust science or doctors. If Queen Lothric was not divine herself, she couldn't have been Gwynevere, since Gwynevere is a confirmed Goddess.
>>46962149
specifically it says
"The blood was spread amongst the Abyss Watchers, and their souls are one with the soul of the wolf blood master."
>>46960278
Why CON? Hollowing doesn't make you weaker or less intelligent. It just changes your perspective on things so far you go mad.
A more suitable penalty would be a hollow ticker that gives a charisma malus for interaction with certain factions (way of the white, etc) and a bonus for others (e.g. kingdom of londor). Should the ticker reach zero, you hollow and go completely insane, hand over your sheet to the DM.
The hollowing ticker can be restored by 'making progress' and lost by 'losing progress'.
In dark souls it's never as simple as just death making you hollow so reducing it that far seems silly to me. Of course, death can be considered losing progress too.
In addition to making more sense lorewise now you won't knob over fighters while having your casters stay completely sane all the time.
>>46962153
can you provide a link to this description? (in japanese)
>>46962165
Have it from yesterday's dark souls general on /vg/, but I'm trying to find it rn. Gimme a few minutes.
>>46962153
DS1: "Holy Water from the Goddess Gwynevere. Fully restore HP and undo irregularities.
The Goddess of Sunlight, Gwynevere, daughter of the great Lord of Sunlight Gwyn, is cherished by all as a symbol of bounty and fertility."
DS3: "Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric.
Fully restores HP and cures ailments.
The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared."
They go out of their way to make a link between the two. Also, in the mansion in Iritthyll where you first encounter silver knights, one who is gazing at a portrait of Gwynevere, drops a divine blessing (complete with its ds3 description..)
>>46962165
Quoted directly from /vg/, possibly from the dark souls reddit:
>English name: Divine Blessing
>Japanese name: Goddess' Blessing
>English version's text: "Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric. The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared."
>Japanese version's text: ロスリックの王妃が祝福したとされる聖水。彼女は先王オスロエスの妻であり豊穣と恵みの女神にすら例えられたが末子オセロットを産んだ後、姿を消したという。
>Translation: "Holy water said to have been blessed by the queen of Lothric. She was the wife to the previous king Osroeth, and compared to a goddess of fertility and bounty, but she is said to have disappeared after giving birth to their youngest child, Ocelotte."
>-Osroeth = Oceiros (see boss names in link)
NOTE: I don't know what link anon is referring to
>-Osroeth is specifically stated to be the previous king (先王), not A previous king, but THE previous king.
>-She is COMPARED (例えられた) to a goddess of fertility and bounty, and this wording means that she is most definitely not said goddess. ("Revered as" probably tried to convey this but apparently it wasn't enough as I've seen people argue that this is proof that the queen is the goddess)
>-The wording for "disappeared" (姿を消した) implies that she did so of her own accord.
>>46962209
Take a look at >>46962218
It's not conclusive. Yes it says she was likened to a goddess of fertility of bounty, but this is not explicit evidence of what or who she was.
I'm saying this does not disprove that could have been gwynevere, a descendant of her, that she perhaps was hiding, or anything. It simply does not state either.
It's not proof or disproof of anything.
All we have is that her holy water, is a identical to Gwynevere's holy water.
>>46962164
You're jerkifying and turning into more of a lifeless zombie, and conveniently undead in d&d have no CON score. Aside from that: gameplay purposes. Every player I know would hate to lose his max hitpoints, but having some faction members frown when they pass by isn't that much of a nuisance, which would lead to "No probs, I'll just do a suicide attack because I've still got over 4 deaths before going hollow."
>>46962259
counter to what that translator says, 例えられた is not proof of anything. It's not proof that she most definately is not X. It could be a Gwynevere in hiding. There's no reason to think that she is. But this is not DISPROOF.
>>46962259
It's not even certain *if* she actually blessed it, it is "said to have been blessed" by her, implying that nobody ever saw her do it. She could've been a regular human hoarding gwynevere's old bottles for all we know.
>>46962290
Agreed. I'm just taking issue with the above being labeled proof for theory X. It is not proof. Just that there is precious little proof for Queen lothric = Gwynevere.
My main point is, this is not proof. It does not explicitly prove anything. All manner of theories, crackpot or not, can work with what we have.
>>46962287
But Oceiros is A.) not a god of fire and B.) not named Flann, which Gwynevere's husband is. Oceiros is a dude like Vendrick who went off the deep end.There's also lore in DS2 that implies Gwynevere and Flann moved to Heide's, a place that looks like Anor Londo and has a replica of Ornstein in it guarding DS2's version of Darkmoon Tomb (the Blue Sentinel cathedral).
>>46962309
I don't believe she's supposed to be Gwynevere either, it's just that everyone seems to automatically associate "Queen of X" with her in every Souls game, until you actually get to see that queen. Judging by how the princes look, Queen Lothric probably looks more like Nashandra of Drangleic anyway.
Some theory:
The Furtive Pygmy fragmented the Dark Soul, giving tiny pieces to other hollows and turning them human.
When the humans procreate and grow, the dark soul/humanity within them grows, and on death, the lost humanity returns to FP and the FP grows in might, eventually becoming Manus.
FP/Manus, having control of the Dark Soul, inflicts the dark sign on humanity as a killswitch, causing all humans to die faster/revert to hollows and have the humanity return to him in a sort of "big harvest."
Manus is defeated in DaS1, probably not completely dead (ala Sauron) because humans are still humans and not hollows, but his shattered form is too weak to rescind the dark sign and let humanity grow at its full potential, which is why it is still there in 2 and 3.
>>46962266
Yeah, it causes problems when you've got a party of players because now you have to try and balance four separate worlds as one. What would actually happen (solo wise) is they would do a suicide attack, die, and they're back as they were as if nothing happened and now he's more hollowed because he hasn't made any positive progress.
Here's an idea: to mitigate this you could play it as all party members have intertwined souls, like Lorian and Lothric? Resting at bonfires resets everything, including fellow party members who are now rudely dragged to the bonfire?
Instead of having failure hollow, we play more lore friendly and simply not making enough progress causes hollowing, death just causes a lot of hollowing?
If killing an enemy and then dying made them disappear permanently far fewer people would go hollow (not to mention that's inconsistent with any of the games' mechanics or lore)
Also, it's less about being frowned at and more if you don't hide your identity you'll be captured and locked in a cell for all eternity until a kindly knight drops you the key.
Let's not also forget hollowing induces dementia too: you might forget who you really are or where you came from. It's a gradual and continuous scale- perhaps the GM could represent this by asking players to roll a non-scaling dice versus their hollowing whenever they try to remember something about themselves?
Something like 0 hollowing = 0 threshold, roll a d20, always remember what you want.
Beef jerky man has 18 hollowing and has nearly completely lost his mind and must roll 18 or higher to remember that NPC he met last week.
Personally I would let the players enjoy the roleplaying challenge of being a hollowed and draw up some guidelines for them to follow regarding their hollow ticker.
Sorry for the ramble, I just really love dark souls.
>>46962355
>eventually becoming Manus.
I'm not trying to be sassy, but Manus the monster we know him as was created via being tortured by the people of Oolacile in order for him to produce more humanity.
Manus was able to withstand the torture and produce humanity just fine, but they took away his primitive little locket and it was essentially the final straw that broke the pygmies back: he rampaged across oolacile, began producing "poisoned humanity" and completely fucked the country over.
>>46962324
Jesus fucking christ
Flann could have died. Killed by X different things. They could have gotten a divorce. They could have grown apart, and Gwynevere ran away. X MILLION fucking things could have happen so that Gwynevere remarried. Hell, Flann could have been cursed to lose his flame god status, changed his name to Oceiros. WE DON'T KNOW. We have no reason to believe any of the above stupid things happened, but a description of Gwynevere being married to a fire god named Flann in DS1, does not physically prevent the possibility of the Queen of Lothric in the much later DS3, being Gwynevere. It's fucking unlikely, but that doesn't constitute an argument beyond that.
I'm more inclined to believe something along the lines of >>46962290, that they simply used some of Gwynevere's old bottles, and claimed "The Queen dun did it, praise the royal house" to keep their populace happy.
But what you're presenting is counter argument to anything.
>>46962401
>does not physically prevent the possibility
>implying the world of Dark Souls isn't physically real
>implying I can't go out and touch a Hollow
>>46962427
You can touch my Hollow, anon-kun.
QUICK, from software is making a spiritual sequel set in neo-80s medieval faux-miami, what enemies would you want to see in a game like this?
>>46962400
>torture a human to make him more human
smart, those guys
>>46962079
>Gundyr
I wonder what kept him from making it in time during the original timeline. The Champion version we see is fast, smart, and extremely dangerous. And as a near-endgame boss, he probably could easily steamroll most of the other threats in and around Lothric. Did the Ashen One just have a much more convenient starting point? Did he have to take on other horrific threats that the player doesn't know about? Is it because Gundyr can't fit through doors or go up all those rickety wooden staircases?
And how does Abyss corruption work? Where did he get that corruption? The Iudex version of the cemetery is populated by mere hollow mooks and one very angry lizard. Is Champion Gundyr's Abyss corruption merely dormant or at an earlier stage than Iudex's?
>>46962460
>I wonder what kept him from making it in time during the original timeline
Probably the same thing that kept Vendrick from linking the flame: being a procrastinating shit
>Is Champion Gundyr's Abyss corruption merely dormant or at an earlier stage than Iudex's?
That's what I think.
>>46962506
>Probably the same thing that kept Vendrick from linking the flame: being a procrastinating shit
He didn't have the Kinship of Giants, nor the three crowns.
>>46962519
You don't need the crowns to link the flame though
>>46962536
nor did Vendrick possess 'em
>>46962447
Ruskies in white suits.
>>46962536
Yeah it's been a little while, but I clearly remember going back in time and taking the thing the throne needs so Vendrick (hence Nashandra) wouldn't get it.
>>46962447
knights with baseballs
