ITT: game mechanics that stand out like really strange and/or counterintuitive to you.
>race as a class
Skill checks in situations that don't have a time limit to them.
>Your master thief rolled poorly, so even though it's an easy lock and you could conceivably just keep working at it you will never be able to open its door.
>>46942163
>if you want to play a non-human character, you must roll on this table to see if you get one.
>after 3 failed rolls, you HAVE to be a human.
Doubly weird since the strong consensus in our group is that Humans are easily the most powerful race.
In practice, we've just ignored it, but I often wonder why the designers thought it was a good idea in the first place.
>>46942252
What system is this?
>races separate to class
I like class-based systems, but when you add a second axis of abstraction instead of just having a straightforward list of, well, classes, I can really understand where the "classless is better" crowd is coming from.
>>46942199
I just have it so that it takes longer, makes noise, possibly damages or breaks the picks he's using. You have to fuck up REALLY bad on the roll to destroy the lock.
>Every check in the game is "roll high"
>Except one that's "roll low"
In pathfinder, making a ranged attack from stealth always gets you -20 on your stealth check to stay hidden. Doesn't matter if you threw a dart or fired a blunderbuss.
>>46942163
>Roll to hit
>Roll vs armor
>Roll to wound
Why would you give me three (or more!) different vectors of failure on a simple attack?
>>46942299
The older editions of Dungeons and Dragons (AD&D and before), I believe.
>inb4 plebs whining about D&D
>>46942363
All of those make more sense than just eternal failure. Kind of like when someone rolls to break down a door and fails, "You knock down the door but hurt your shoulder doing so, so you have disadvantage on attack rolls for a bit" is better than "Uh, guess that didn't work. Guess we're not going through there."
>>46942299
Dragonquest. You can find the rules here.
http://www.fantasist.net/dragonquest.shtml
>>46942383
At least it adds SOME balance back to unbalanced dice.
>>46942199
This. I've completely eliminated this concept from games I GM. If you have ranks in the skill and you're not under pressure you auto succeed.
Adding scrolls to a spellbook during downtime, using UMD to cast with a wand out of combat, disabling locks/traps when there's no time limit on your job, etc. Roleplay trumps rollplay at my table and I don't want to watch you roll a dozen times when there's literally nothing at stake.
"Take the easy win but eat some RP consequences for not rolling" happens if it's in a place with roaming enemies, though.
>>46942163
Being able to use diplomacy/intimidate/bluffing against anyone and always having a chance to succeed. Fuck diplomancers in RAW, they're retarded.
>>46942601
Except it doesn't, it's simply strange and nonsensical.
>Hey, all of our system is "big number=good"
>Except ONE roll, in which "roll low=good"
>Muh dice aren't balanced
Non-multidice systems will always have shit-luck crap.
>>46942529
Because it doesn't make sense that they can't try again? What if a failed roll is taken to mean that the door was sturdier than expected and you simply aren't strong enough to kick it down, no matter how many times you try?
Or do you just mean it's better if progress isn't halted completely, if it's completely dependent on the PCs being able to break down the door?
>>46942682
I don't know, it can be pretty intuitive.
>"I attack the goblin."
>"Make an attack roll, AC 11."
>"I jump across the chasm."
>"Okay, roll under Strength."
The bigger problem is when there are different dice. Even after D&D 3E established the d20 System, there are still d100 rolls where there don't need to be.
>>46942778
>I attack the goblin
>Roll high!
>I use the rope
>Roll high!
>I make a lamp!
>Roll high!
>I sneak
>Roll high!
>Oh nice I got a high number on my str check to hold up the por-
>Str check is roll under, you're dead
See how it's inconvenient?
Also
>Multiple non-related dices
This shit is the worst, SPECIALLY when it's totally random when they're needed, HP and damage I understand, but shit like "This class uses D6 in place of d12 because reason" is annoying as fuck.
>>46942757
It depends whether you take rolls to represent the character's ability or to represent how the world is. I watched a YouTube video about this a few weeks ago, the guy gave an example of rolling successfully to climb a wall, therefore it's a wall the character can climb (rather than he just happened to be at the top of his climbing game that day).
Failure makes a bit more sense in old school and OSR games because a failure (perhaps determined secretly by the GM) means yeah, the thief can't disable that trap, the elf doesn't find that secret door. There's no "try again" option. Or if the fighter tries to knock down a door but doesn't quite manage, then that's a Wandering Monsters check. There are consequences, not just constant d20 rolls until you hit 15 or above.
>>46942613
Literally what the rules for take 10 and take 20 exist for.
>>46942313
>Profession should be the same as your ethnicity
>>46942463
This is the kind of shit that made me not want to GM Shadowrun, and sadly I'm the only one in my friends' group who would have the will to.
>>46942836
Which system does that?
AD&D was roll low on almost everything.
>>46943036
Anima did it at the start for stat checks(later it got changed because it was stupid as fuck)
I could swear to god 3.5 did it too with some obscure checks that nearly nobody used.
AD&D does it on combat (High numbers=Good, except on AC where high=bad)
They keyword here is obscure, so I wouldn't count AD&D much (even if THAC0 is arguably inferior to normal AC in theory of ease).
>>46942900
True, but in the system I'm usually stuck running the rules for those are somewhat silly. The idea that someone with a tonne of skill can't disable a stupidly simple trap through careful study and deliberate action because taking 20 = failing 19 times before success, and thus springing the simple deadfall/tripwire/pressure plate trap. I prefer to let them RP that skill out if they're clever enough to spot the weaknesses of my trap diagram. If not, it's in the hands of the dice. There are plenty more examples of places where taking time/using RP could be of benefit where take 10/20 aren't normally allowed and failure means no retry.
>>46942640
To be fair, diplomancers are only as powerful as they are because people often misunderstand when they're allowed to use diplomacy.
>>46943240
>The idea that someone with a tonne of skill can't disable a stupidly simple trap through careful study and deliberate action because taking 20 = failing 19 times before success, and thus springing the simple deadfall/tripwire/pressure plate trap
If, like you say, it's stupidly simple trap and they have a ton of skill, take 10 should be more than sufficient.
Rolling to hit based on strength.
>>46943324
I can get that, what I don't get is
>defence based on armour regardless of what weapon you have
All they'd need to do is say holding a longsword gives you +1 to AC in melee or something. No need for the AD&D polearm attack matrix.
>using two weapons means getting more attacks
>>46942474
>>46942560
So which one is it?
>>46943293
Meant to add "to him" in there. The Idea is I'm not going to spring it in his face or deny the attempt if taking 10 would put him a point or two short of the DC. He's got all the time in the world and he's seen many traps in his life. I'd rather he have a chance to think and RP than tell him the specificity of the rules killed him.
>>46942836
>dices
dice is the plural already. 'dices' is like calling multiple books 'bookses'
So, um. Hi, Smeagol!
>>46943279
I've played it with a ruleslawyer before, he knew all about the major penalties and just ate them up.
>>46943583
Sheit I always fuck up dice/die.
>>46943613
I hope you dice in a fire.
>>46943580
I would think that something that he has less than 50% chance of successfully disarming isn't stupidly simple for him. But point taken.
>>46942163
>Race as class
>bad
enjoy your half fae catboy paladins and your half fiend kitsune barbarians
>>46943999
The deep dark secret is that I'm just trying to cram as much actual RP as I can into a system that was designed to avoid RP more often than not. I'm running a Pathfinder game I inherited when the previous GM quit before the players hit level 3. All they want to play is more Pathfinder but I can't tell them to piss off because they're my friends and family, and I'd be playing/running nothing at all otherwise. I'm giving major advantages to using RP as much as possible to show them how much fun it can be to make that the focus of table time rather than constantly calculating crunch. Terrible plan, I know, but it's actually working because they're not true crunchmeisters, they're just newish to TbT don't have any experience outside 3.pf. Coaxing them out of their shells is starting to pay off as I've now go them discussing alternate styles of game.
>>46943701
That's not very dice.
>>46944290
You just described my CoC characters.
>>46944290
>playing with faggots who actually do that crap
You brought that upon yourself.
>>46944518
Call of Cthulhu or Corruption of Champions?
>>46944552
Both.
>>46944552
Corruption of Champions. I keep my magical realm to myself.
>>46942163
>gender is a different stat than sex
>>46942313
Races describe what you are.
Classes describe what you do.
I'm one of said "classless is better" faggots, but my main problem with classes only is that it's way too rigid in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with having classes as an option, but I like being able to pick and choose which powers and skills and abilities I get once I have the points or levels or whatever and having a strict class progression limits that. Not only that, but being able to put stuff together alacarte makes nonstandard character concepts a lot easier to do justice (assuming a robust character creation system).
For me, the concept I don't understand is Armor Class. It makes a lot more sense that my chainmail would reduce the amount of damage I take and that my dex would reduce the amount of times I get hit, but for some reason if someone hits you with a sword, it just doesn't do anything.
>>46944290
I mean I know you're just trying to make a strawman argument here but if you're apparentaly okay with half fae catboys and half fiend kitsunes as a whole, since you apparently havn't banned them as a race, I'm not sure how one being a paladin or barbarian (race+class) is any worse than one who's entire identiy is being one (race=class).
>>46944633
It actually is. And this isn't just some SJW bullshit, look at Ancient India if you want examples.
>>46944633
But claiming that your chosen gender is your biological sex is even MORE drama.
>>46944720
Whatever you say tumblr.
>>46944681
fae and kitsune have such strong identities and iconic abilities that they really should be their own racial class desu.
Pairing them with a radically different flavor of class is just jarring.
>>46943701
That's cold, anon. Cold as dice.
>>46944754
Not my fault you're ignorant in the history of the Indian caste system.
>>46942199
What is take ten?
>>46944764
Now I could see making them start with at least one level of a race class to get the default stuff any given member of said race is born with but they should be able to cross class into "normal" classes too.
See now what's jarring to me is the idea that if Pixie Pete for whatever weird pixie reason gets the thought in his head "know what? this magical trickery stuff is stupid, I wanna beat people with a stick" and spends decades of his neigh immortal fae life doing nothing but parcticing the fine are of beating things with sticks he still can't take that level of fighter.
Now on the other hand Adventurer Conqueror King strikes a nice middle ground by having elf and dwarf versions of the classes as seperate classes, so not every elf or dwarf is identical but are still somewhat different than their human peers
>>46942778
>The bigger problem is when there are different dice
>using only one die
>implicitly using only d20
>>46944906
Enlighten me then, with reliable sources if you can.
>>46944633
>having either or both of those as stats in the first place
>>46945056
>not exclusively using d6
get a load of this drek
>>46942163
>race as a class
It's for settings were non-humans are are enough that they warrant their own classification. It's part of a more streamlined way of viewing character abilities. Instead of having long lists of powers your character has you have a concise title that describes the neat stuff you can do.
It's actually pretty neat in practice but D&D, which is the only game I can think of that does it, tends not to use it to it's fullest potential.
>>46944290
Also fuck this guy.
The "snowflake police" are almost as bad as snowflakes themselves. Actual snowflake players are pretty rare in my experience, even when playing shit like PF or Shadowrun. Most players think of some concept they want to try or character they want to emulate and pick the stuff that fits that. A lot of the time this results in parties of mostly humans with maybe tiefling or dwarf in the mix. Even the non-standard classes end up playing as rounded adventuring types instead of some ungodly animu thing.
>most Magi/Duskblades I'v seen end up being poncy duellists, pirates or opportunist mercs instead of edgy narutos
And from time to time crazy worlds full of different races and professions can be a lot of fun. It's a totally different feel from OD&D but that's not inherently bad.
In actual cases of bullshit players, it's really not hard at all to talk to them. Tell them what they made doesn't fit the style of game, help them to simplify or tell them to get out. Hell, 90% of the game is communication, might as well start soon.
It's kind of fucked up that fear of easily treated fringe cases would turn people off entire systems and mechanics.
>>46944633
Gender is about how your words end. Sex is what I did with your mother on Saturday. That seems disparate enough to use different numbers.
>>46945087
You need at least sex because if you choose woman you have -4str.
>>46944720
I'm glad we're letting Ancient India decide everything about the world now. Fun fact: if you grab a MW dictionary that was printed before 2000, you'll see the the first definition of gender is just "1. SEX."
They changed the definition of a word, and are surprised when people still use the old definition.
>>46944720
You mean "third" genders that under transfag definition would just be female (or male in the case of reverse traps)?
>>46945105
>needing sex
uh it's 2016???
>>46945105
Well I guess that this thread was nice while it lasted
>>46945062
Not the other guy but just google "Hijras".
>>46945105
-4 strength seems a little harsh, even ifits just a meme
maybe you should just give females disadvantage on strength checks against males
>>46943456
What's wrong with this?
>>46945208
that's even worse, because then it lets them act on the environment in the same way (say, throwing weights around) as an equal-strength-male, but then suddenly they're weak against males, even though they were both just doing the same thing.
>>46945173
>I have an opinion
>you're wrong
>This is coutner to my prior knowledge, but feel free to make your case
>not my job to educate you
Yeah, this is definitely tumblr.
>>46945251
It bears absolutely no resemblance to actual fighting and doesn't make any logical sense.
>>46945251
There's a good reason why you don't throw a punch with your left every two seconds when using a one-handed weapon in your right.
>>46943036
Warhams does it.
>stat checks are roll under
>leadership is roll under and are also 2d6 instead of 1d6 for reasons
>attack rolls/damage rolls/armor rolls are roll over
>>46942383
>weapon-users roll to hit
>magic-users make the target roll to live
The one taking the action should be the one rolling. If the action succeeds, then the target can roll to unfuck itself on its next turn.
>>46945173
The existence of some castrated faggots and ladyboys doesn't mean that ancient India thought sex and gender are separate concepts.
>>46944720
India sucked until colonization, so how they felt about anything is pretty irrelevant.
>>46945288
I have 2 strong attacks with right and 1 weaker with left. Why not?
>>46945264
>/pol/ The Roleplaying Game
Centuries ago Evil Feminist Witches and their SJW Minions inacted a great and terrible curse forcing the world's laws of physics to bow to the strength of womynkind out of fear of being seen as not politicaly correct, but when directly confronted by the REAL stength of manly MEN the hex is ever so briefly shattered and the truth of the inferior upper body stength of the female body shows itself.
>>46945265
Hey retard not that guy you are arguing with just letting you know India has a long tradition of a "third gender". I dont give a shit about your politics.
>>46945171
See you on the other side of the shitstorm, anon.
>>46944906
Poo in the loo Pajeet.
>>46942163
>race as a class.
The thing I learned is that the race has an established class to them.
>dwarves are fighters
>elves are battle mages
>halfings are theives.
The difference is you have people who could do it better in the human characters.which is what Gary wanted.
>proficiencies in AD&D 2nd ed and 3.PF
I guess weapon proficiency bug me is you need to pick a specific weapon. But then again, when I dm in 2nd I usually do it in groups. And 3.pf has a 3rd party companion that allows martial weapon proficiency to apply to all (its called trail blazer I believe).Pic unrelated.
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE
THERE IS 2 GENDERS=SEXES: XX (FEMALE) AND XY (MALE)
THERE IS A FUCKLOAD OF SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS AND SEXUAL SELF-IDENTITES (DRESSING UP AND WANTING TO FUCK SOMETHING ELSE DOESN'T CHANGE YOUR GENES)
GIMME COLD WATER FOR MY SORE ASS
>>46942163
>race as a class
Well, if it's a race that has a variety of special powers, but they need to practice to use them, it makes sense. Like, Tolkien elves become more intrinsically magical and angelic over time if they develop it, and the only way you can really describe it is that they start as elves and become elfier.
So in some cases it makes sense.
>>46945523
>halfings are theives
Depends on the set- ahem, system. They can be cool sling-rangers, or quick barbarians, or something.
Same with other races.
>>46945281
>>46945288
If you have an axe, mace or knife in each hand you can certainly do a downward swing/stab with both, especially if you're a tall musclebound barbarian type.
Of course it's a fairly limited attack pattern and you should have less power than when you're attacking with a single one, but systems generally suck at modeling attacks.
>>46945541
You want to know what's hilarious? That subreddit for women was intentionally called two x chromosomes to keep the trannies out.
>>46945541
Words are made up and generally agreed upon collectively, anon.
This means they have no inherent objective meaning, and can unfortunately change, even if you do yell about it.
Defining as chromosomes is flawed because people exist that don't easily fit into such a definition. XX males (they have a penis and testicles), XXY males, and a ton of other non-standard shit.
>>46943456
I think this made some sense in Anima, where either making two attacks with the same weapon or using an off-hand means taking a penalty to your Attack stat that's added to the roll, so there isn't exactly much difference between using either method unless your offhand weapon has qualities that made attacking with it a better idea than just using your main arm twice.
Admittedly, you could get the Ambidextrous advantage, which greatly lessens the penalty for using offhand weapons, thus making dual-wielding actually more efficient than just striking twice, but you have to pay a Creation Point for it, so I'd say it has a pretty big price tag attached.
>>46945633
The amount of people who don't fit into it is so tiny that they can be safely considered irrelevant.
>>46945633
>XX males (they have a penis and testicles)
mutant female
>XXY
uhh-uh... Hermaphrdites?
>>46945104
>sex: yes
>gender: doesn't matter
>>46945541
Wow, how chromosome-normative of you. You homodiploid people really need to check your privilege.
>>46942163
You have no problem with "monster classes" why are racial classes such a stumbling block?
Anyway, Warhammer RPGs and DCC:
>incredibly high lethality levels so that ANYONE CAN DIE
>fate points so that you can get out of death free
People against race as class are invariably either:
Min maxer
Special snowflake
There is literally no reason not to pick the race with the highest bonus in the stats for you class, other than to be a special snowflake that -isn't- being as efficient as possible for the sake of muh special snowflakeness
>>46945896
You don't get it. In some games, races ARE classes.
Bob is a lvl 16 Fighter, Alice is a lvl 16 Elf.
>>46945896
Look, it's a principle thing. Are you saying a dwarf bard simply can't exist? An entire species in the entire world just simply can't do it? It's retarded.
Anyway, you're putting the cart before the horse. People tend to pick weird fucking races or just a non-human for mechanical benefits a lot of the time. Maybe race should not have mechanical (dis)advantages which will leave behind the people who are genuinely interested in being an orc or an elf. It could imply be 100% fluff.
>>46945925
Also this
>>46946021
>Are you saying a dwarf bard simply can't exist?
They aren't human. Dwarves might not even derive pleasure from music at all. This leads to my next point.
See, this is exactly why race separate from class is retarded. You're playing them as a different flavor of human instead of something entirely non human. In fact, when you have all these difference flavors of human, there's no reason for "true" humans to exist. Hell, usually humans are the weakest race mechanically precisely because of this bullshit.
> People tend to pick weird fucking races or just a non-human for mechanical benefits a lot of the time
That's minmaxing.
>Maybe race should not have mechanical (dis)advantages which will leave behind the people who are genuinely interested in being an orc or an elf. It could imply be 100% fluff.
If races don't have any mechanical bearing then there shouldn't be races written down in rule books at all.
>Also this
"Race as class" obviously refers to the old model of "humans can be various classses, but an Elf is an Elf class, Dwarf is a Dwarf class, etc"
>>46942853
>It depends whether you take rolls to represent the character's ability or to represent how the world is. I watched a YouTube video about this a few weeks ago, the guy gave an example of rolling successfully to climb a wall, therefore it's a wall the character can climb (rather than he just happened to be at the top of his climbing game that day).
It makes a lot of sense in a way. The better your character is at climbing, the more chance that he can climb any wall he encounters. This is almost the same as saying that the better your character is at climbing, the more chance he encounters a wall that he can climb. In both cases, when you roll you're essentially tossing a coin (weighted by climbing ability) to decide if the wall happens to be climbable by your character. Any factor other than climbing skill is just invoked to rationalize the outcome of the roll in the narrative.
It's intentionally ambiguous in some systems, while others take care to separate the difficulty of the task from the skill and roll.
>>46942383
Finally found someone else with this pet peeve.
GURPS: Lower is always better... except for reaction rolls and the Misfortunes of War roll for Mass Combat. Some disadvantages have a Self-Control number you have to roll under to avoid, others have a Frequency of Appearance that show up /if/ you roll under a certain number. Having Nightmares is somehow a matter of self-control.
Apocalypse World: Rolling high is always better, except when you're injured. Then if the Harm move "succeeds" you're more hurt, and less hurt if it fails.
>>46946113
>Dwarves might not even derive pleasure from music at all. This leads to my next point.
Yeah I get that, but that's not the case in Tolkien aping settings like Forgotten Realms. I mean in an RPG setting where that's true, fine but the fluff better really support the hard class restriction. Personally I agree that Human +1 races are really old hat at this point and not too interesting when game balance is necessary. There should be original races with their own weaknesses, maybe stuff we take for granted. At least that should happen more often if people insist on statting races.
>usually humans are the weakest race mechanically precisely because of this bullshit
Far from most of the time you usually need to make some half-X half-Y abomination to efficiently surpass something like 3.5 Humans or 5e variant humans.
>That's minmaxing.
That's what I said, mainly that snowflake stuff is really going the other way. Something intentionally choosing slightly suboptimal stuff isn't necessarily bad for the game like a munchkin is.
>If races don't have any mechanical bearing then there shouldn't be races written down in rule books at all.
Yes. That's what I'm saying. That will solve minmaxers and weird nonsensical balance "solutions".
imho classless RPGs > class RPGs in the first place.
>>46946113
>You're playing them as a different flavor of human
or you're playing them as a sentient being that can make their own carrer choices and not a mindless automaton that is incapable of learning how to sneak around becasue apparentaly their race dosn't have rouge.exe installed
>>46945087
Actually, I can think of one example where it works and is actually a good gameplay mechanic. Sagas of the Icelanders has Gendered as a stat.
>>46942402
Can I just extend this to "All of Pathfinder's gun rules"? Seriously, they're a fucking mess. And the Gunslinger class is horribly underpowered unless you let them have a revolver.
>>46946418
So I'm morbidly curious, how's that work? What's that stat used for?
>>46946390
>or you're playing them as a sentient being that can make their own carrer choices
You're making the mistake of assuming that sentient+intelligent= they act like humans and enjoy the same things a human would enjoy
That's an erroneous assumption.
If you're going that far, why not just play a human from an ( in setting ) foreign culture?
>>46945541
Colloquially, gender and sex are synonyms, because most people don't consider the differences important enough in their daily lives to make a distinction.
Academically, it is a useful distinction, and not just for some SJW reasons. Sex is a biological term, relating to XX and XY chromosomes in humans. Anything else, though various other arrangements exist, is nonstandard and usually linked to genetic diseases and rare conditions.
Gender is an anthropological term, about a societal role usually linked to sex, and most often relating to roles in society in terms of family structure, work, and social scripts. It's an important term because different cultures have different standards of behavior for men and women, and historically, there have been some (relatively few, but significant) cultures that had more than two defined gender roles. E.g. Native American two-spirit people.
>>46943587
How did he overcome the amount of time it takes to use these skills and the circumstance bonuses and penalties?
>>46946575
it's not about enjoyment, it's about being physicaly incapable of learning how to do anything other than one skill set. What race as class systems say goes beyond cookie cutter cliche. It's saying that EVERY dwarf is a heavy armored fighter that they are completly incapable of learning other skill sets. That they have nothing else, no scouts, no locksmiths, no scibes, no poor people in slums, no wilderness experts, NOTHING that can't be properly represented by a heavy armor using fighter.
>>46945015
A rule specific to D20 system RPGs.
>>46946829
If you want to do those things, then maybe you should just play a human then.
>>46946829
or perhaps there is simply no difference between a human thief and a dwarf thief, while there is a difference between a dwarf fighter and a human fighter
>>46945925
And that's cool. Much, much better than a setting where being an elf is something you do because it matches your skillset.
>>46946503
I'm not sure if you're familiar with Apocalypse World or how it works, but the game is based on that. Players have access to "moves" which are self-contained rules that trigger when they take some fictional action.
In Sagas of the Icelanders, all characters have access to some of the basic moves, to do things like "tempt fate" or "endure grave harm" but others are separated between Female and Male moves, which you roll based on the Gendered stat.
Female moves are things like "conceive a child" "raise your voice and talk sense" or "goad a man to action," whereas male moves are things like "undertake a physical challenge" "throw an insult at another man" or "When your honor is in question..."
Of course a woman can try to undertake a physical challenge, or a man can try to goad someone to action without insults, but those things aren't expected, and the GM has more freedom to be arbitrary in telling you how it goes, instead of letting you roll. It's all meant to give different characters distinct mechanical roles and to examine a big part of Icelandic culture at the time.
It's pretty fun, but of course not everyone would think so. It'd take a particular group, who's aware going in that the game is less about going pillaging, and more navigating Viking social dynamics... between pillaging trips.
>>46942199
>Eclipse phase has no take ten.
>playing hacker
>roll 99 and fail to hack a low security grocery store so bad I get the cops called on me and my identity plastered everywhere on the mission.
I had hopes and dreams once, I used to wake up with a sense of purpose.
>>46946113
>You're playing them as a different flavour of human instead of something entirely non human.
That's how fantasy races have almost always been. That's why they are called races and species.
In LotR Elves were men with everlasting lives and beautiful bodies. They did many of the same things men did but altered through the lens of incredible pride and grief. Dwarves were men with a deep connection to the earth and all it's wonders. They had soldiers, scholars, kings and outcasts just like other men but with an unshakable background of obsession and secrecy. Hobbits are men without the responsibility of empires, ect...
In Elric, Melniboneans were generally lazy, sociopathic assholes but they still had varied interests and skills as well as relationships and responsibilities.
In Star Trek Vulcans are humans with unnaturally powerful passions refined into logic by necessity. They can be artists, diplomats, soldiers, rebels, scientists, anything at all but their practice is always effected by their conflicting nature.
They are humans but with some significant element changed. What would be like if we lied forever? What would we be like if we didn't teach morality? What would we be like if never saw the sun?
They act as mirrors to balanced people and as signs of the fantasy world's impact on those who live in it.
The only time you see races with properly alien psychologies are stories like Conan or the Lovecraft mythos were they are intended to be antagonists.
PC races should be mostly human, in no small part because they are intended to be played by humans.
>>46946930
The actual fuck are you on about?
>>46946575
>If you're going that far, why not just play a human from an ( in setting ) foreign culture?
because don't want to be a human from a foreign culture.
I want to be a dwarf, from the dwarf culture.
I want to be a short stocky beared creature that hails from the mountain halls, that has a culteral sterotype of being a gruff and a bit greedy but nether the less honorable. That can see in the dark and reist poisions, though the formor is mostly said to be used to quaff copicous ammounts of alchohol. That comes from a culture that generaly is known for making doughy warriors but I might not be one myself.
After all here I am slumming about with this group of adventures rather than working in the mines or guarding the clanhall aginst goblins or whatever else a "proper" dwarf is supposed to be doing.
>>46946021
>Look, it's a principle thing. Are you saying a dwarf bard simply can't exist? An entire species in the entire world just simply can't do it? It's retarded.
Maybe being a bard requires a cultural context that dwarves simply don't have, because they're foreigners in the human's default faux-medieval setting.
It's like how you yourself can't be a bard in real life, today. Try it. You can dress up as a bard and do bardy things and call yourself a bard, but ultimately you're just a musician that hangs out at ren-faires. The only way you could be a bard was if you were apprenticed to a poet in britain or ireland in the early medieval period, or before.
That's why I always like the BECMI approach to demi-humans, because it had so much cultural flavour baked into the mechanics of the game. All elves might know how to sneak and use weapons and cast spells to some degree, but they would never be called a thief or a fighter or a mage because they come from a place where all those things are essential life skills and they don't have the sort of stratified society that would result in one youth swearing oaths of fealty to his lord and another learning a secret language to plot crimes in.
>>46947166
>Maybe being a bard requires a cultural context that dwarves simply don't have
What about being a fighter, cleric, monk, wizard, rogue etc?
>>46946900
See now THAT on the other hand, I could live with. Might have to come up with some kinda hand wave as to why the biological traits of a dwarf don't work, but that's pretty easy to expalain away I suppose, "I've lived on the surface too long, can't see in the dark like I used to"
>>46946882
You're missing the point though.
If every dwarf is supposed to be a heavy armor wearing badass with a battle axe and there's nothing else for them to be but a generic 2H fighter, then where did this dwarven society bullshit come from?
If all they're good at is fighting then how did they learn how to craft those weapons? How did they even know how to properly use said weapons? What's to stop one dwarf from stealing someone's weapon and for that matter, where are they keeping their weapons? How did they learn how to build shelters? How are they recording their history? How do they even know how to write?
A race of underground badasses only really works if you assume that that dwarves as a whole come out fully formed and capable of knowing everything they'd need to know how to fight just because, which works for monsters but not so much for player characters that are supposed to work with characters that might be of different castes, races, or professions.
Also, if all dwarves know is how to fight then it raises the question of "did nobody in this entire society, after meeting or experiencing something like art, literature, architecture or whatever just not decide to say that they wanted to try that for themselves?"
>>46947221
>Fighter
Requires a tradition of fighting in heavy armour and the concept of soldiering as a profession
>Cleric
Requires organized religion
>Monk
Requires organized mysticism. This is maybe the D&D class that's most blatantly bound up in cultural expectations.
>Wizard
Requires the concept of a magician as a learned man and a corpus of magical knowledge that is studied academically and increased by research.
>Rogue
Requires the notion of property rights, criminal law, an urban civilisation, advanced locksmithing, organized crime.
Your elf or dwarf culture might have absolutely none of those traits. Granted I'm using Thief instead of Rogue for the last one, but that's what they were in the version of the game that used races as classes. To my mind it's fitting that a class-based RPG should use broad generalizations that come with a lot of baggage - if you want complete control over how your character is described then play a game with freeform character building.
>>46947475
You're making a lot of assumptions there. Most notably you're jumping from "all dwarves know how to fight" to "all dwarves know how to do is fight".
Maybe all (adult) dwarves do know how to fight, though some are better than others because they're not all high-level adventurers, but it's probably also true to say that they all know how to dig and how to work a skilled craft. It could also be they all know how to read, how to sing in harmony, how to tell the worth of a gemstone - that may or may not be relevant to the game you want to play.
>>46942163
I don't think it's a terrible mechanic, but: Inspiration in D&D 5e.
To me it felt tacked-on as an afterthought. I had to add a bunch of uses to it to make me and my players even feel it was worth anything, and it just isn't a compelling mechanic. And I say that as someone whose favorite RPGs are ones like Fate, Burning Wheel, PbtA ones, that put roleplaying rewards front and center.
That might be part of why I dislike it in 5e. Between Inspiration and the backgrounds, it almost seemed like an out-of-touch nod to those sort of indie character-focused RPGs, like the writers sat there and said, "So what do the kids like these days? Let's throw that in there." Without understanding how those sorts of rewards are integral to the systems they appear most heavily in.
>>46947551
>>Your elf or dwarf culture might have absolutely none of those traits
>Your elf or dwarf culture might lack culture of any kind
>>46947551
Does a dwarf child grown by humans not get levels in dwarf?
>>46947742
Does an elf raised by orcs gain proficiency with the rapier and longbow?
>>46947742
*raised, obviously.
>>46947776
Does a character multiclassing into a barabarian become illiterate?
>>46947856
Barbarians aren't automatically illiterate and haven't been for a long time. You have to take a special archetype for you to actually be illiterate.
That said, the last barbarian I played was functionally illiterate, but that's because her tribe's native language is Giant, not Common, and while she can speak Common, she can only read and write in Giant. It also gives her a heavy Scandinavian accent as a result.
>>46947672
But then if that's true, why even bother making making class skills that are unique to certain classes and not make a thing where they have a special ability that only dwarves have access to due to some weird anatomy bullshit?
Like, rather than a dwarf only being able to be good at a certain skill, why not just have them have something like stone-skin or an innate ability to detect precious stones and ore, or maybe even something like being able to find fault lines or something?
It'd make more sense than assuming that every dwarf knows how to fight and produce stone sculptures and wear armor just because they happen to be dwarves.
>>46947742
Well, maybe. Discuss it with your GM. If your character concept isn't specifically supported it'll have to count as one thing or another.
>>46948346
I'm not sure what you're saying. Your dwarf class can be universally skilled at things that certain humans can do, and they can have special powers all their own. There's no contradiction here.
>>46945644
desu most of the time there's no reason in anima to make multiple attacks, with dual weilding or not, unless you're ambidextrous or have some other way to reduce the penalty.
>>46948496
What I'm saying is, why is it assumed that being a dwarf means that you're inherently better at performing certain skills than any other race in the game?
Like, why is it assumed that a dwarf will always be a fighter who knows how to sculpt stones and wield heavy weaponry?
Would a human gain the same proficiencies if they grew up around dwarven society?
If so, what's the boon in being a dwarf if my human could technically gain any racial proficiency depending on the background I chose for them?
It just makes meta-humans feel less like living creatures in the world and more like a cluster of bonuses that can just be replaced with humans who just so happen to be better at sculpting and shit because that's what their culture or something.
I mean, what's the difference between a dwarf and a human who grew up in not-greece or not-rome or something?
>>46948949
What's wrong?
>>46947475
Where did humans come from if all they can be is fighters, mages, clerics and priests? Who makes the stuff the thieves steal?
>>46948767
>I mean, what's the difference between a dwarf and a human who grew up in not-greece or not-rome or something?
Whatever.
The game.
Says it is.
This really isn't all that complicated. Maybe they can see in the dark, maybe they can smell gold, maybe they can recover from wounds that would fell the hardiest human but they turn to stone in sunlight. Who cares, we're talking the abstract and you're getting bogged down in minutiae.
You know another game that does race-as-class? Rifts. Not a great game, but it does have the kind of cool distinction that one of the basic playable classes is Dragon Hatchling. The dragon has to be a class because dragons are concerned with their own power progression of breathing fire, getting bigger and flying around, so even if they're interested in mundane human occupations like piloting power armour the dragon-ness is always going to be the core of the character. At the same time, dragons can learn certain skills that are available to humans, like casting spells and learning foreign languages. There is enough scope in the game for classes with distinct but overlapping capabilties. Does this example make things clearer?
>>46947704
Or maybe they're elves who live in the woods, use wood and bone instead of metal, work magic intuitively, practice a sort of casual animist religion, and use their sneakiness to hunt because they live in small communities where you couldn't get away with being a professional criminal. I guess that's no culture.
>>46949190
All things are conjured, prayed or fought into being. All forms of hand-craft are a kind of applied fighting.
>>46942163
1d20+modifer to determine failure or success on an absolute basis (i.e., no room for additional circumstances that may be good or bad on a failure or success).
>>46942163
INT
>>46949190
I dunno, maybe finding the origins of man could be a campaign in and of itself?
I mean, it's not like we have a proven idea as to where mankind first originated from, and I say this because we're still discovering missing links between humanity and apes and shit today.
>>46949306
>>46949306
>Or maybe they're elves who live in the woods, use wood and bone instead of metal, work magic intuitively, practice a sort of casual animist religion, and use their sneakiness to hunt because they live in small communities where you couldn't get away with being a professional criminal. I guess that's no culture.
So a ranger, sorcerer, shaman and rogue.
Those are still classes you fucknugget, just for different reasons.
>>46949407
>how to roleplay a char with 20 int
have fun metagaming
>>46949306
>This really isn't all that complicated. Maybe they can see in the dark, maybe they can smell gold, maybe they can recover from wounds that would fell the hardiest human but they turn to stone in sunlight.
I can accept this.
>Who cares, we're talking the abstract and you're getting bogged down in minutiae.
Because as with most abstract bullshit, it doesn't make sense and tends to generate more questions than answers due to the fact that the designers never thought that far ahead.
I mean, I'd love to play in a game where each race was more than a slight inherent bonus towards a stat and more along the lines of weird races that are completely alien in comparison to humans.
Like, the most interesting races to play as tend to be monsters or something while everything that is playable is just "humans + accessory" bullshit.
>>46949499
generating more questions is always good, as long as those questions do not pertain to mechanics.
>>46942163
Being incapable of talking because of my class.
>>46949537
That's the problem though, when a game works almost entirely across abstraction, it tends to fuck up the mechanics as well since you're unsure of where reality begins and the abstractions end.
Like, why am I not allowed to strike 2+ times because I moved while the wizard is able to twin-cast a spell after shifting 5 ft. backwards?
Or, why do all dwarven characters have the same skills as one another when their backgrounds are entire different from one another and at least one of them wasn't even raised around dwarves?
I dunno, third edition was really bad about this bullshit.
Alignments...just alignments.
I've never seen a game that made them a core mechanic and not end up devolving into inane bullshit because the not-CN gnome decided to spike the LG human's drink and derail the campaign just because "it's what my character would do."
On that note, people who justify shitty behavior through roleplaying shitty races/alignments. Unless we're playing ShadowRun and your character has "uncouth" as a negative quality, that shit just won't fly at my table unless you work it out with the player beforehand.
We're all friends here and lord knows best friends don't need a reason to act like assholes to one another for kicks.
>>46949724
Five foot steps fucking ruined DnD so hard it's unreal. They negate so much of the fucking tactics to the game.
That and the fact that the developers were too pussyfooted to actually restrict certain actions to certain classes
>>46946701
Google diplomancer builds, they're easy as shit to get a modifier into the 20s and 30s at very low levels.
>>46950386
I concur. Also the focus on full-round attacks for martial classes was bizarre.
You have to look at every possible full-round action and ask "does this have a reason to take more time than casting a save-or-die spell?" It almost never does.
>>46945601
I was referring to OD&D but you are right on the system part.
Normally though if someone plays a half ing in OD&D you laughed at them.
>>46945541
This is wrong.
Sex is biological. It determines your genitals, instinctual behaviors, and what you want to fuck.
Gender is sociocultural and intersects with race, class, and tradition. It regulates your instinctual behaviors and tells you who you can fuck.
Compare a White rich landowner and a Black slave in 1800s USA, both of whom are genetically male.
landowner:
>can fuck anyone he fancies thanks to his status
>can probably get away with the murder of another White person if he's discreet enough
>can kill, maim, and torture Blacks with impunity
slave:
>not allowed to fuck White women
>can probably get away with the murder of another Black person if he's discreet enough
>will get fucked up if he even injures a White dude
Being a "rich White freeman" isn't the same as being a "Negro slave man", they have different rules for their behaviors imposed by society. But that doesn't necessarily mean that social constructs are bad. After all, money is a social construct too.
The problem with tumblr is that it pushes genders that are individual constructs (I GOTTA BE ME) because standard social constructs are just too mainstream.
>>46942163
>One defense number representing both how hard you are to hit and how heavily armored you are. (d20, nWoD)
>One offense number representing both the power and accuracy of your attack. (nWoD, X-Wing)
>>46945541
Chromosomes are actually a red herring as far as sex determination goes, and the fact is most research shows trannies have different neurological makeup in three different areas of the brain.
Also this is /tg/, can you go be triggered about trannies elsewhere?
>>46952498
As /k/ sometimes puts it.
"I sexually identify as an attack helicopter"
/k/ also laughs at the knife in OP's pic, for the record.
>>46942163
>classes
Custom Dice a shit
>>46942163
Advantage
>>46943127
>even if THAC0 is arguably inferior to normal AC in theory of ease
Only if the number -1 makes you wet your pants. But I've argued this so many times that I know I must be wrong.
>>46942613
I agree with all of those outside of wands, I would still role those, but just in case a fumble happens, then it is cause for a misfire roll. I like wild magic.
>>46954373
Bigger numbers being better is just more intuitive.
>>46945445
>Hey retard not that guy you are arguing with just letting you know India has a long tradition of a "third gender". I dont give a shit about your politics.
They don't give a shit about toilets either
>>46954526
I may just be on the spectrum or something, but numbers need a scale and reference for me. If I want to go ice fishing I want to see the temperature go down, not up. If I want to go out for a nice leisurely hike I want the weather to warm up but not get too high. If I'm getting my paycheck I want to see the biggest number that can fit on the paper. Numbers don't have inherent meaning, only meaning when applied to something.
>>46954610
>GUYS GUYS LOOK AT ME I USED A MEME AND A HAVE A NAME AREN'T I GREAT?
>>46942163
Attribute checks in general.
>roll a d20 to see if you're stronger than a little girl even though your str stat is 18
What in the serious fuck?
I think next time I DM I'll just have people's check as their stat -2 or so and then roll a d4 to see any variation with increased dice size depending on if they are being given aid or not.
>>46948767
You do know that these dwarf cultures aren't real. Right? It's a game made (initially) to imitate fantasy fiction.
>>46954694
Just... don't roll in that situation. One thing I see a lot (mostly with d20 systems) but in game and people just talking is that every single thing short of taking a shit requires a roll.
No, you don't need to make a roll on your drive home, or if you do just don't fumble and you're fine. You're in a high speed chase trying to catch up to the cultists that kidnapped your daughter? Yes, now you roll your drive skill.
>>46955297
People crash their cars outside of car chases you know.
>>46955457
Which was my fumble comment, I had that thought while typing it up.
>>46943574
Probably the guy who linked rules
>>46953554
>/k/ also laughs at the knife in OP's pic, for the record.
Wrong tab alert!
>>46946970
>Eclipse phase has no take ten.
but it does have simple success tests, sounds like your GM is a faggot.
>>46953470
>most research shows trannies have different neurological makeup in three different areas of the brain.
So like sociopaths then.
>>46945651
>we can eliminate this <1% of the population from my definition because I don't care about them
>my definition is meant to tell this <1% of the population who doesn't fit it that they're wrong
What's it like being retarded, anon?
>>46946900
My concern with that is stuff like 'So why does a Dwarven Thief lose his natural ability to see in the dark?'
>>46949499
>I'd love to play in a game where each race was more than a slight inherent bonus towards a stat and more along the lines of weird races that are completely alien in comparison to humans.
Oddly enough, a terrible RPG for a fetish webcomic does this with it's races and it's pretty good. MSF High.
Everyone starts at Level 1 <Race>, Level 1 <Class> and you can level them both up.
So the 'Goblinoid' race gets a higher than average HP and a lower than average magic as well as an ability that scales for them based on race level.
Because this is a fetish game based on transformation, you can multiclass into any race you've been transformed into. Learning to use their tricks and mindset even when you return to your natural form.
So yeah, it does 'Race as Class' even with Humans.
>>46942163
I quit playing MTG back in the day because of mana burn
>>46950386
4e did a pretty good job of fixing that up.
The average person couldn't stop 5ft steps. A Fighter or Warden? He gives zero shits about your 5ft step. He will lock your ass down.
>>46958406
when he was exiled for stealing and had an incredibly bright light shined into his eyes so he could never return to cause mischief again
>>46958629
And if he's never been arrested/exiled?
>>46958214
>Humans naturally have two legs and two arms.
>Not true! There are a handful of kids in India born with semi-functional extra limbs!
>Well that's a birth defect caused by pollution, they're not representative of the species.
>THEIR BODIES ARE EQUALLY VALID YOU BIGOT!!
>>46958698
>my definition can exclude this one exception
>my definition can't exclude this other exception
Nigga, if you seriously think there's a meaningful difference between the two, you need to get an education.
I even hear there are scholarships for "special" people like yourself.
>>46943279
Don't use "to be fair" followed by your own argument. It makes you sound like an asshole.
>>46945445
Not the guy you're arguing with but
>Tradition justifying anything
>>46942363
>breaking locks
The pick itself has almost no force applied to it, and the tension wrench doesn't need much more pressure applied to it than it takes to open the lock with its normal key.
And the lock itself is going to be made of stuff even sturdier than the picks.
A rogue's lockpicking set is more likely to wear down from abundant use than break, unless he's really shit at picking. And that's not going to be that often, if you're playing in a medieval fantasy setting with huge, shitty locks.
>>46942163
>mechanic incentives to roleplaying
Roleplay is half of the whole hobby, it is so strange to institutionalize bribing players to rp in the system.
>Priority systems in character generation
If I get fixed points to build for a given priority, why not price everything in the first place?
>Character arcs that are build into the system (elf has a grief stat), abilities that buy a specific event
Making the story is the job of GM and players, I don't want something written into the statistics to exercise through or ignore in 95& of campaigns.
>>46958687
Seems unlikely due to how regimented dwarven society is and how guarded they are.
If this is a high magic setting then the clan that was stolen from could fairly easily use divination magic to find the thief.
>>46959167
It justifies "hurr durr trans people are new modern bullshit" being wrong because tons of cultures have historically had third genders and shit.
>>46945608
If you're a really strong barbarian type and you're swinging with all you've got (using your whole body like a baseball batter as any good barbarian would) then holding two objects simple widens the area over which you are distributing force. With this in mind it might make more sense for duel wielding (as you described) to do less damage than a normal attack.
>>46959291
shoot, forgot to take off my name from a /v/ thread.
>>46942163
Wearing heavier armour makes you harder to hit and offers no damage reduction.
Being really good with a sword makes you better at hitting things but not at parrying
You need a skill, talent or feat just to wear armour
Drawing a 120+ poundage war bow requires your character to be good at things lick playing the piano, embroidery, card tricks and other dexterity based tasks and doesn't require an ounce of actual strength.
Rapiers weigh ~1.3kg, that's about the same as a long sword and far more than an arming sword or a side sword, rapiers are heavy because they are long and are amongst the heaviest one handed swords they should not be put in the same weight category as knives
Any system where dexterity/agility adds to initiative, initiative is all about situational awareness so it should be based on either mental stats or experience level
>>46945633
XX males are impossible because the genes need to make a penis and testicles are on the Y chromosome. In fact the Y chromosome is entirely about reproduction so any defective mutation in it results in sterility. This is why there are no hereditary defects associated with the Y chromosome.
Nice try tumblrina, was getting caught out part of your plan?
>>46942163
>>race as a class
Doesn't seem so strange to me.
Elves may be very rare in that setting, in that environment, so if you want to be one you'll just be an "Elf". It is enough to differentiate you.
>>46946934
So in that system can only women talk sense or do women need to use a special ability to be able to talk sense?
>>46942163
>XP is rewarded by completing objectives on a checklist
>the GM is not allowed to interfere
fuck GMC
>>46962227
>XX males are impossible
Holy shit, could you be any more ignorant if you tried?
Take a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
inb4 "hurr durr Wikipedia is wrong in referring to them as men, because they're clearly women since I say so"
>>46962425
>has Y chromosome fused to X
>TOTALLY DOESN'T HAVE A Y CHROMOSOME GUISE
Maybe you should read your own sources before flipping your shit.
>>46962729
Maybe you should learn what crossing over actually means in a chromosomal sense. Because it sure as fuck isn't fusing two chromosomes together.
>>46942163
>completing quests awards xp
>combat does not
>>46963426
I adore that. Otherwise you punish people for beating quests using subterfuge, stealth, intelligence, special skills, etc. Think VTMB.
>>46963426
My problem is the opposite.
>Only get XP from combat
>If you complete a quest line, you get no XP
>If they run away, you get no XP
>If you successfully use diplomacy to end combat peacefully, you get no XP
>If you try to run away, you'll just provoke AoO.
>Yet the game has monsters that are effectively unbeatable unless you're min-max'd or a caster.
It's like, fuck, why even bother having non-combat skills if it just ends up coming down to murdering them all anyways?
>>46942163
>d00 system
>it's roll-over, add bonuses
You're basically ignoring the one reason for using a d00 in the first place.
>>46963426
I tried an experiment once, where I told my players that they would be getting the full adventure XP upon completing the adventure, not by killing every individual thing. I just added all the XP together for everything, then would assign it to the group once they were (successfully) finished.
The result was dramatic. There was no more intentionally activating every trap, intentionally triggering every ambush, and lengthy combat sessions where they tried to kill everything. Instead, the players immediately tried to think of the smartest way to complete a particular mission. They only went off exploring if they were hunting for more gold and treasure, not just because they wanted the XP hidden in all the dead ends. And I was free to throw more interesting fights and situations at them - hidden ambushes, reinforcements, dangerous traps - because the goal of the party was to get around them and complete the quest, not to force encounters to get all the XP that they could.
I am not going back to combat-for-XP (or traps-for-XP) again. It just bogs the game down too much, and asks the players to focus on fighting long battles all the time just to level up.
>>46964345
The one reason to use a d00 system is for more granularity. That has nothing to do with with whether you roll under or roll over.
>>46964426
I'm glad you figured that out. It's one reason why 3rd edition was complete clusterfuck of a game.
>>46942163
>race as a class
That's fine by me. "Class" is a fairly vague idea anyways, basically a skillset that's only someone based on a character's class in society and somewhat based on a job. "Race as class" is just focusing on what the race does as a skillset. It would be something like an athlete or marathon runner or survivalist class.
What I find really strange is when skill training is disallowed outside a class. Yes, I get that my character is a wizard. But why can't I learn herbalism well? Is there something about book study which makes understanding plants that difficult? Is it utterly impossible for a scholarly spellcaster to have an understanding of herbs and medicinal plants?
Even more annoying is levels tied to skill progression.
>In great thanks for saving my life, I shall teach you the secrets I know in silversmithing.
>But not right now.
>You need to get another 500 XP and then can gain the knowledge upon next level.
>Don't worry, it will probably pop into your head after the next batch of ogres you slaughter.
>>46964426
>>46963465
I couldn't agree more.
>>46962254
More of the latter. Or rather, when a woman does, a roll happens. It's not an ability that's directly used by the player. The actual wording is:
"When you raise your voice and talk sense, roll +versed. On 10+ hold 3, on 7-9 hold 1.
Spend your hold 1-for-1 to give advice on a favourable course of action or warnings against a course of action to those present. They gain +1 forward for following each of you pieces of advice, or -1 forward for doing any of the things you warned against."
A male character can still raise his voice and give someone advice or warnings, but they don't get that same mechanical benefit, unless they somehow got the move for it.
>>46964453
d% is a bit more awkward to use than something like d20, and the minor granularity gained isn't really worth the minor hassle. +1 is still incredibly minor on a d20 roll, and going less than that is only relevant if you have an absurd amount of bonuses or are trying to grant progression to rolls almost continuously throughout the game campaign.
And if we're talking about skill progression, there are really other ways of going about it. Heck, Burning Wheel has a much more interesting and arguably "granular" skill progression than d20, and it uses d6 dice.
>class (as something more than a preset of skills that can be easily recombined into another "class")
>levels (instead of buying shit directly for xp or whatever character progression currency you're using)
>combat having ten times more complicated rules than most other activities
>hit points
>>46964426
Good on you mate.
Anything that encourages people to play murderhobos less is a win in my book.
Demihuman level limits. There are better ways to make humans worth a damn, and I can't fathom why these would come into being. The only explanation I can come up with is Gygax being a sperg.
Classes in general.
I hate how most games tie all these special abilities to a specific path of character advancement, especially when the classes are imbalanced and it all ends up becoming a game where either you're playing the best class or you're dead because the game assumes that you're playing the best class in the game.
>>46950921
Holy fuck, that's my character? Diplomancer :D I like it a lot.
Generally, my bluff never strays below 50 in Pathfinder. At this point, everyone in town now says, "He's a bard, he would know."
>>46962254
from what I got from >>46946934 women have it as a natural ability and are thus better than men in doing so, but men can do it as well
>>46958489
One of the most popular japanese RPG (I forgot the name of) does that too.
>>46954482
I LOVE Wild Magic, and throw it at my casters all the time using a hundred different tables of weird shit. I'm just saying I don't want to spend half an hour doing UMD rolls for a CLW wand after a major fight. Though I have cut down on this by adding much more powerful cure wands with the caveat that no one wants to buy them from the PCs. I don't want them getting enough money to buy an island by selling a mass cure critical wand. (96,000G, who's going to have THAT on hand to buy it from you, or even 20%)
I do hidden d% rolls for wild magic chance, on nearly every casting, based on spell level and magical saturation of the area, etc.
>>46965985
I thought it did that for magical races, but humans just get another class instead.
>>46964426
Pure awesome.
Did the same, but took a different route. I stopped counting XP and gave out levels based on story progression.
>Having rallied your allies and defended the fort successfully, you will level as soon as you get back to your hometown to report your success. Have your leveled sheets ready by next session.
Similar results, big GM smile.
>>46959213
"Third" genders are just male and female under another name.
>>46946305
>GURPS: Lower is always better... except for reaction rolls and the Misfortunes of War roll for Mass Combat. Some disadvantages have a Self-Control number you have to roll under to avoid, others have a Frequency of Appearance that show up /if/ you roll under a certain number. Having Nightmares is somehow a matter of self-control.
Yeah, I wish they fixed that. On the other hand a good rule of thumb is:
Excluding damage, if it's on your character sheet, you roll under.
"What's happening to me and my actions?" : Roll Under
"What the fuck is happening with these chucklefucks?" : Roll Up
>>46945105
And +4 Int right? :^)
>>46967419
+4 Cha desu
>>46967419
>>46967601
You get no bonuses, only -4str.
>>46958510
Mana burn is gone, and has been gone for several years now.
>>46964645
He wanted to have his cake and eat it too, from a fluff perspective he wanted demihumans as they appeared in his favorite stories despite them not being concieved for games and game balance so we got his weird mess with demihumans.
>>46968821
>implying questfag opinions are worth the paper they are written on
LOL
O
L
It was a mess it was balanced
>>46966034
Then I guess we like the same thing just do it different ways (I've personally never seen players spend that much time on UMD myself which may be why I do it differently).
>>46958687
Then he isn't a thief. Fuck off, Jerry.
>>46969607
Only the bad thieves are the ones that are arrested or exiled.
The good ones aren't caught.
>>46958406
Do you see those people studying shitty careers because they aren't good in anything else?
Well yeah
>>46969694
And your dwarf overnight became a master thief? Fuck off, Jerry.
>>46943026
>your class is your profession
>I'm a level 23 cobbler, watch me jump off a tall tower and live! Look at these awesome shoes I made on the way down!
Fuck, no. Class isn't your job, it's your archetype. Elf is a class, because "he's the elf" is the archetypal role you fill in a party.
Turning classes into jobs is misunderstanding the role of class systems, and shit like this leads to proliferation of tiny classes inbetween the bigger classes, then more classes to fill the space between those, and so on, and then why aren't you just playing a classless system in the first place?
>>46969576
Campaign without a proper Cleric. Normally like the resource management aspect of a dedicated healer, but try explaining why the church can make heal potions but not wands of the same spell.
Fistbump for wild magic, though. Seriously not enough craziness related to constant magic use in most games I've played.
>classes
>>46964609
>d% is awkward
What? You know exactly what your chances are. You can hand someone a d% system character sheet and they can play no problem (except maybe combat, d% games like to get weird in combat).
Want modifiers? Don't worry about + this and - that, but also + this. Just use a simple thought. Is it hard for a trained person? Halve their skill. Would it be easy for a random person who just fell off the turnip truck? Double their skill (if not an auto success). Otherwise leave the skill be.
