What happens when you stuff 3.2 billion kilograms worth of stuff into a roughly 1.5m diameter sphere? My players are planning to use various home brew magic skills and powers to create this thing on the roof of a sixteen story tall doomsday bunker built into a mountain.
>>46930321
You get a very dense object that will collapse into a singularity with a mass of 3.2 billion kg.
>>46930321
billion in long scale or short scale?
Assuming short scale, the event horizon radius is 4.753 * 10^-18 m, far smaller than 1.5m. So I would think this sphere will immediately explode in a planet shattering explosion due to the pressure.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/widgets/view.jsp?id=15c7a7eb32c8610b005811b8640ebc1
The Schwarzschild Radius for 3.2 * 10^9 kg is 4.753 * 10^-18 meters
So you haven't squashed it anywhere near enough to make a black hole. It will probably just expand again when the magic ends.
Probably a rather sudden expansion.
Here's what will happen.
1. After the object is created it'll immediately collapse in on itself to make a microscopic black hole.
2. After a few milliseconds the black hole will decay due to Hawkins radiation.
3. The black hole then releases its energy in a nuclear explosion Trillions of times more powerful than the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
4. The entire planet explodes, the shrapnel likely to get dragged around the planet's moon and form a new planet in a few million years
5. The newly forming planet-moon-shrapnel will likely get knocked out of orbit and all kinds of bad shit will happen.
6. Have your players pledge never to do that again.
>>46930321
Something exciting, that's for sure
>>46930352
>>46930406
>>46930435
>>46930448
OP here. Assuming I don't want a TPK (Total Planet Kill) how would an object of that mass interact with reinforced steel walls, ceilings, floors, and solid rock? Would it sink down to miles below the earth or would it stop once it hits solid rock? It'll fall, I'm gonna say, 2m before hitting the top of the bunker.
>>46930448
The mass required to form a black hole is MUCH larger than 3.2e9 kg.
To form a black hole you need enough gravitational attraction from mass to overcome neutron degeneracy pressure. For white dwarf stars to do this they need to be at least 1.39 solar masses, or about 21 orders of magnitude greater than in the OP scenario.
The OP scenario would just lead to a medium-sized ball of very dense stuff, it would then fall to the ground and, depending on how high up it started, probably make a sizeable crater.
>>46930494
It would explode in a massive fusion reaction. No amount of reinforced steel or solid rock would stop it.
>>46930521
> 1.39 solar masses
Wait a minute I'm dumb, that's what you need to overcome electron degeneracy pressure and form a neutron star.
Black holes need even more than that.
>>46930494
If your players are wizards, I think dropping it from 600-1,000 meters would be more realistic.
>>46930494
Due to gravity, it would probably fall and not stop falling until it hit equilibrium inside the earth. I'm not an expert, so that's just my best guess.
>>46930521
>>46930546
You're assuming blackholes forming naturally from gravity alone. If you could concentrate mass/energy into a small volumn by other means (either extremely powerful particle collision or magic in this game) then you could create black holes smaller than stellar mass.
>>46930352
>singularity
it's not even close to the density of a neutron star. It's off by 8 or 9 orders of magnitude
>>46930494
Well, if your players raised that sphere up to 40m it would be extremely destructive. It's as if someone took 8 Empire State buildings and compressed them into a beach ball.
>>46930666
>>46930546
>>46930521
Checked anon's shit using fucking math and shit.
You would need to condense the mass in the OP to somewhere around .01/(c^2) meters to create a black hole. That's a really fucking small space.
On a related note, fuck web-based calculators.
>>46930666
If we assume that the black hole is created by this method, it would take about 87,000 years to evaporate by hawking radiation.
Neat.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%285120*pi*Gravitational+constant^2*%283.2e9kg%29^3%29%2F%28hbar*c^4%29
Hmmm. Well I'm certain an object like that would be comparable to a small meteor if accelerated appropriately. Hey OP, is there a time limit on this thing before all that mass suddenly decompresses? What matter did the players use?
>>46930829
N.B. this completely discounts the '1.5m radius' bit of OP's scenario.
>>46930494
Well, 3.2 x10^9kg isn't particularly much when talking about mass. It's a bit larger than 1994 WR12: a Near Earth Asteroid with a diametre of about 130 metres. If that asteroid were to impact the Earth it would produce an explosion roughly equivalent to 77 megatons; about 1.5 times the size of the Tsar Bomba nuclear bomb.
What your players want to do would make that worse as they'd be compressing it to the point where nuclear fusion would start to take place. I'm not the person to do the maths on this, so I'll leave that to others, but I suspect that it wouldn't be a Total Planet Kill; only regional catastrophe that would take out a region roughly the size of Connecticut. Probably larger. The fireball alone would be 5 miles in diameter.
>>46930853
I think most of the damge will come from when the magic containment fails and that 3.2x10^9kg suddently want to expand to normal pressure. All the (magical) energy required to compress mass to this density will then be released suddenly and it will be on hell of an explosion.
>>46930853
>an explosion roughly equivalent to 77 megatons
That's if this magic ball thing fell from space, OP suggested a drop height of 2m >>46930494
at normal earth gravity (excluding air resistance and the negligible effects of the ball's own gravity) it would fall for 0.64 seconds and thus hit the ground at 6.272 ms^-1.
For a mass of 3.2x10^9 kg, this is a kinetic energy of about 63 GJ or 0.000015057 megatons of TNT.
TL;DR drop it from higher than 2m if you want an earth-shattering kaboom.
>>46930932
That's a fair point. I hadn't considered that. Any maths/science guys want to run the numbers on what it would take to compress an arbitrary element down to that size?
>>46931049
I would but fuck I need to go to bed
>>46930841
OP here. I've looked through their convuluted plan. It looks like the sphere is going to be made up of quarry stone and has a two hour time limit. They plan to teleport it to the base and use their last teleport to get as far away as possible before the thing blows up.
>>46931059
Oh come on, sleep is for the weak, you know you want to see where this goes. Also holy fuck my pencil sucks and I regret uninstalling MATLAB.
>>46930853
An asteroid is moving very fast, though. They seem to be making this thing on the surface it will be impacting.
This is Basic F=m*a shit, guys. Barring some kind of fusion ignition event, we would see a 1.5 meter ball of very heavy, very hot matter sinking in to and through the bunker. There would likely be a plume of vaporized concrete and then a 1.5 meter hole rimmed with glass.
When the spell ends, though, there is going to be an oh shit.
>>46930961
I'll mention it to my players. They'll probably throw it up 1,000m and hope the explosion will do enough damage to the bunker if they miss.
The amount of pressure/energy needed to condense such an object will produce a lot of heat. Quite possibly enough to melt metal, or turn the entire object into an unidentifiable molten mass. No idea what kind of temperatures, but I wouldn't be surprise if it ignited the air or something crazy like that.
It's also possible - mainly due to the volumetric constraints and how fast your group compresses this stuff - you might trigger nuclear fusion.
Someone else can check the numbers on this, but if this were to happen, they'd probably get some kind of short-lived proto star thing.
>>46931173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0o5xVkzo54
Would it expand when the spell ends though? Or will the mass have simply been compressed and that is its new state.
If you take a one foot cube of matter from a neutron star off the star does it suddenly expand?
>>46931463
If you compress atmospheric CO2 into liquid state at 200psi, does it expand when you let it out again or does it stay a liquid because it's a new state?
Same thing.
>>46931463
Chances are it'll expand. Some of it might stay compressed that far, but I doubt all the mass they are compressing can naturally stay in a hyper compressed state without seriously bizarre conditions.
Neutron star material is just a sheer mass of electrons and ions. If you could get any of the stuff off somehow, yeah, it'd likely expand a fair bit by dint of its energy and compression, but it'd also be a completely different thing as the lack of environmental conditions it existed in prior caused it to become something more stable.
>>46931550
I don't think you would get anywhere close to a 1:1 expansion. How much will depend on the material used of course.
OP, what is the 'stuff' they are going to use? If they used water for example, just assuming magic allows it, that would likely be a pretty hefty explosion.
Actually, would it? It would largely depend on how the spell failed - would the material simply return to its previous volume in a magically controlled expansion? Or would it be 'explosive'?
If I did it right, if they used water, we would see the 1.5m sphere poof in to a 400 meter sphere (or about).
>>46931887
Or maybe fusion would occur?
>>46931519
So you are saying that liquid CO2 explosively expands to its gas form the moment that pressure is removed?
>>46931887
I believe he said they're planning to use cobblestone.
>>46931953
Yes, sometimes leathally depending on how the containment failed.
If you owned the mill and milled the flour for your village will you be well off?
With the sparse information OP gave us, I ran some numbers. I assume the material is no more dense than iron, on average. Long story short, minimal impact, 12.7 richter scale earthquake?
http://impact.ese.ic.ac.uk/cgi-bin/crater.cgi?dist=5000&diam=400000&pdens=3200000000&pdens_select=8000&vel=0.01&theta=1&tdens=2500&tdens_select=3000
>>46931887
Of course not, it'd be underground. There would still be massive upheaval.
>>46932097
>12.7 ricter scale
holy shit that is one big explosion. Ricter scale is a log scale right?
It would explode spectacularly, the shattered crust of the planet would envelop the world and destroy all life.
And guys, just because something is pushed below its schwarzschild radius does not mean it will become a real black hole. An object needs about ten stellar masses to actually maintain singularity. And of course, this does not even fall below the schwarzschild radius.
>>46932097
>Object distance: 5,000KM
Reasonable for wizards
>Object diameter: 400km
>Density: 3,200,000,000kg/m^3
Okay, that's a little inaccurate.
>>46932134
Yuh and yuh. It's basically the chixclub impact, but without the attendant destruction.
>>46932134
Lemme put it this way, the largest earthquake ever recorded is the Great Chilean Earthquake, and that was only a 9.7. This would be a thousand times stronger than that.
>>46932212
Oh, whoops. It's merely 9.9 when I correct for iron instead of my earlier attempts.
>>46932097
>Alter the length of a day by 23.3 hours
Holy shit. OP, go stop your maniac players.
>>46931991
In that case the 1.5 meter diameter sphere of rock would expand to a sphere of about 40 meters diameter.
>>46932254
Okay. So the 12.7 happens if the expansion is instant - basically the world gets smacked by a lightspeed expansion of 3.2 billion kg of material from a 1 metre sphere. 12.6 if you go up to 1.5 If it's a slower expansion, so basically anything less than instant, 9.9.
>>46932295
Since its wizards and the collection of materials was within 6 seconds, I'd say that there will also be a violent expulsion will be around the speed that shockwaves travel through earth, around 6-8 kilometers per second. All in all that bunker is fucking destroyed and so is the surrounding countryside.
>>46931049
There are two basic situations here: 1) if the temperature is allowed to level on its own, the process of compressing the material is going to take lot of time. Rough estimate is about a billion years. 2) if the temperature isn't allowed to level on its own and the change is instantaneous, then the object will heat up. Rough estimate of the temperature of the object the instant it is compressed is about few million Kelvins. The object will radiate the heat quite fast tho, so for a moment the object will shine like the center of a star.
Both these situations can be exciting.
1) the players complete the cast but nothing seems to happen. If they study their spell they find out that without magnificent power (possibly out of their current reach) all they have managed is to create a persistent force causing a certain volume of quarry stone to forcibly radiate small amount of heat and thus cause it to compress in span of a billion years.
2) the players finish the cast and are instantly vaporized as the excess heat radiated by the compressed object reaches the temperatures of a center of a star. Possibly the compression will begin a chain reaction of all the gas in the atmosphere going under fusion, bathing the planet's surface in temperatures not reached since the formation of the planet. The planet will be left devoid of life for aeons to come. I.e. they glassed the planet.
>>46932460
Well, depending on the amount of heat they might have just created a small form of clean energy. So plus.
>>46932254
The big problem is the speed of the object. It is going to be no place near 10km/s. I'd expect it to be closer to terminal velocity.
That and the base problem that you are using a program designed to figure earth impacts to begin with. Nothing you put in that thing is going to get you the actual effects here.
Speed of expansion, and how far the expansion is, determines the force of the explosion.
>>46932395
Won't do anything to the surrounding area to notice. The mass around will simply compress and absorb. You are not going to get the explosion you are looking for unless the rock continues to expand outward past that 40 meter diameter (say through inertia, but would the spell cause that).
>>46932550
terminal velocity isn't going to matter here. Terminal velocity accounts for the drag caused by air friction. It becomes completely insignificant when the mass of an object is in scale of the 3.2 billion kg. Plus the atmosphere is only 100 km and most of the air is located in about 10 km from the surface of the Earth anyway. If an object with 3.2 billion kg of mass is going to hit Earth with velocity of 10 000 m/s then it simply won't have time to decelerate.
>>46932460
>2) the players finish the cast and are instantly vaporized as the excess heat radiated by the compressed object reaches the temperatures of a center of a star.
Will depend on how close they are to it.
>Possibly the compression will begin a chain reaction of all the gas in the atmosphere going under fusion, bathing the planet's surface in temperatures not reached since the formation of the planet. The planet will be left devoid of life for aeons to come. I.e. they glassed the planet.
We have detonated a rather impressive number of nuclear weapons on this planet - hasn't happened here yet. Nukes (center of explosion) tend to be hotter.
>>46930321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrMvUL8HFlM
this on a slightly smaller scale
>>46932736
>won't have time to decelerate.
You are missing my point. Why would it accelerate beyond terminal velocity in the first place? This thing isn't coming from some long elliptical orbit from the fringe of the solar system. It is being created right over the target, and then falling - starting from standing still.
OP said it starts at 2m up, later he said he would suggest a higher distance - 1000 meters.
This reminds me of the time in a Hero System game where 1 player abused the GM's misunderstanding of multipower active point cap and ended up with a density increase power with an active point cost around 200~. He then decided that falling onto a military base from a helicopter would be better than landing. Turns out that when you suddenly turn billions of times heavier than normal it really affects fall damage.
>>46932395
>collection of materials was within 6 seconds
Would the expansion then not also take place over 6 seconds? If so, no effect.
>>46932989
Well, it takes around 30 minutes to set up a bomb. Are you telling me it also takes 30 minutes to explode?
>>46932770
>We have detonated a rather impressive number of nuclear weapons on this planet - hasn't happened here yet. Nukes (center of explosion) tend to be hotter.
You seem to misunderstand the timescale of the compartment. Nukes blast for a fraction of a second and yield huge destruction. This "explosion" would last for millions of years and radiate about same amount of energy at each second as a single nuke radiates in whole lifetime.
>>46933007
That isn't magic.
Here we are saying the collection of materials happens over six seconds. So the magic force compresses shit over six seconds. For all we know it took hours to cast the spell.
It isn't unreasonable to ask 'would the spell fail at the same rate it created the compression'. Maybe, maybe not.
If you want to go the bomb analogy. The construction of the bomb is the casting time of the spell. But the 'collection materials' would likely be analogous to the 'initiation' of the explosive device.
But it is magic, so who knows. Up to OP.
>>46933107
comparison instead of compartment*. Masterful predictive text.
>>46933107
>You seem to misunderstand the timescale of the compartment.
I don't think so. Max it lasts for two hours. Then it expands (ends) and likely creates rapid cooling.
Okay, explosive decompression and country-collapsing earthquakes aside, I think OP actually wanted to know what would happen if that thing was dropped from any reasonable height onto a reinforced-everything doomsday bunker.
>>46933182
Bunker is busted. From everything we've gone through over the course of this thread, I think we can all agree that whoever is hiding in there is fucked.
>>46933182
If it was dropped from 2 meters (so created inside the bunker or on the roof perhaps) it would fall and collapse through the roof. It would continue downward towards the center of the earth. It would do this for likely two hours.
It would not blow up the building as it fell, it would move too slowly for that.
It would however wreck the structural integrity of the building in all likelihood, but that is just a guess.
At the end of the two hours it would expand back to its normal density. If it just 'poofs' back it would move from 1.5 meter diameter to about 40 meter diameter, and would be unnoticeable. If it instead expanded as if it were normal matter compressed and then suddenly released from that compressed state it is a bit of a wild card - experimental guessing and nothing else is really possible.
If the object would be super heated (and it is magic, so it may not...cause magic) from its compression that would be an additional factor and likely the building would be destroyed.
The world doesn't end.
>>46930321
RAW?
Teleporting an object simply fails if the space is occupied.
If your players somehow found a way around it, precedent is that you shunt the object into the closest available space and it takes 1d6 (mitigated by hardness) for each 10ft it travels.
So, what'd end up happening is that a 1km-sized cylinder (which includes your bunker) gets utterly filled with the dust of smashed whatever it is you're teleporting. It promptly collapses into a pyramid of smashed dust, sending an avalanche of dust across the countryside.
If your players somehow found a way around THAT, and yes they are quite capable of teleporting objects into an occupied space thank you very much, then you get 3.2 billion kilograms worth of stuff into a 1.5 diameter sphere.
They all overlap like noclipped models and pyrite.
Given that the only check for interacting with an object is "can you reach it and do you have the necessary skill", you can access each item individually as though it were on its own.
The problem is, there ARE things in D&D that'll shunt items in an AoE, and I'm not sure but I -think- there are also rules for billiardsing an item off another item in some very specific situations.
In both of those situations, guess what happens if the target space is occupied?
Yep, moving the item fails.
Now, what happen if an item fails to move, AND also fails to stay in its initial square?
According to D&D, the item ceases to exist.
So your BBEG simply casts wall of force of whatever on your doomstack of items and they vanish into nothingness. That's assuming you get them all on the same space to begin with.
>>46931173
3.2 billion kilograms of just "stuff" in a 1.5 meter sphere is still fucking massive enough where the temperature could trigger nuclear fusion considering in order to actually trigger it you need to get to around 100 million degrees.
Compression creates a shitton of heat. Plain and simple.
Its entirely within the realm of possibility that such a reaction could create the world first pure nuclear fusion bomb from just the instant and constant compression of this "stuff" being held and suddenly released.
>>46932501
Who needs clean energy when you have access to magic?
>>46930321
Can we get a story of what lead up to this? I've legitimately wanted to do a campaign based off of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLjwSpZ6Cs
And this sounds like it would fit
>>46933745
>worrying about RAW of D&D
>home brew magic skills and powers
>OP doesn't even mention D&D
>>46930321
With a 1.5 m sphere the mass of 3.2 X 10^9 it has a density of 2.1333 billion kg/cubic meter roughly (it's actually more dense I just forget how to remove the dead space from a square to sphere so this assumes square) now then density of the sun is 1410 kg/m density of earth 35.51 g/cm3
This thing your players made its more dense then the sun. So alot of bad things could happen. It could turn into a star, it could turn into a singularity but it probably lacks the mass for either of those outcomes thankfully, beyond that I am not sure what will happen.
>>46934685
The sun is not very dense, water is 1000kg/m^3.
The earth is three times as dense as the sun.
