Why aren't there any Star Trek RPGs or wargames that people actually play? Star Wars and 40k seem pretty successful, so why not an objectively better setting? It seems like someone's leaving money on the table.
>>46887896
> objectively better
Shit, I'll bite. Here's your (You).
Star Trek has RPGs and board games. They're boring as fuck, mostly because they're based on the TV series. Maybe if they made one based on the new movies with some decent combat mechanics people would actually bother playing it.
>>46887896
>objectively better
>>46887896
>Star Trek, a series about the virtues of peace and understanding
>a wargame
u wot m8
Already got this.
>>46887896
>objectively better
Kek'd
>>46887979
The FASA RPG has decent combat mechanics. They're just brutal and unforgiving as fuck. One solid shot and you're done.
>>46887896
Star Trek, when it's done right, is more cerebral, which is more demanding. It's also about a team of people with a strict hierarchy running a ship in accordance with protocols. Star Trek is much more fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, which is more conducive to easy role-playing. The long and short of it is that you have to be smarter and more disciplined to play Star Trek than Star Wars, which dramatically cuts down the player base.*
Also, Star Wars is just much bigger than Star Trek, and has somehow remained popular through years and years of trash movies. And then there's the anything goes universe with more action and special effects. Star Trek has never been very good when it tried to rely on those sorts of things (JJ Trek is fucking insipid).
*Not, mind you, that a Star Wars campaign is necessarily dumber than a Star Trek one, but the minimum requirements are less.
>>46887896
Try GURPS, there's several ST suppliments and GURPS is crunchy enough for war gaming
As to why, because there's not lts of fighting in ST, and even less ground forces
>>46887896
>a setting about a bunch of boring, peacefull, hippy, faggot nerds reverse the quantum field to power the dylithium crystal every episode is conducive to a wargame.
star trek is the most dull setting ever created. its "watching paint dry: the setting". the only good star trek is the new abrams films and lo and behold, trekkies hate them.
>>46888655
>because there's not lts of fighting in ST, and even less ground forces
But Star Trek basically invented its own style of martial arts...
>>46888725
>reverse the quantum field to power the dylithium crystal
That never happened in classic Trek and didn't happen in TNG nearly as much as you might think. Stop watching Voyager.
>>46889001
>stop watching the show that would work best for a tabletop game
>>46889028
>>46888087
Rodenberry pls.
You know damn well what they did with your baby.
>>46889081
What, you don't think that it'd be the only way for players to get away with all the murderhobo shit they'll do?
Fasa also made a ship to ship combat game. Two of them in one package, actually. One's a little more in-depth and has bigger numbers and the other one is a little simpler and divides the numbers roughly by 3 or 4.
>>46888945
>implying the Finnegan fight didn't have great choreography
>>46889136
I think the only thing that would make it better than classic Trek is how inconsistent it is, but you could always just do classic Trek inconsistently.
>>46889244
Dude, Kirk-fu is awesome (though I will admit to detesting Shore Leave).
>>46887896
Nobody may actually play Star Fleet Battles, but everybody's heard of it.
>>46887896
There's the recent Star Trek: Attack Wing, which is literally a licensed Trek version of X-Wing done by WizKids, and there have been Trek ship miniatures games before that, like Star Fleet Battles.
I play the hell out of STAW with some buddies of mine.
And there have been Trek RPGs. They were never very popular, but they do exist. I have the ST:DS9 RPG books.
Probably because Star Trek features ranks and strict hierarchy.
>I'm going to shoot this guy
>Belay that Lieutenant, I'm the commanding officer and you'll do as I say if you don't want to get a court martial.
>Sorry... Commander.
>>46889804
There are ways around it.
There's really only one rule in Star Fleet that they really won't let you get away with, and that's the Prime Directive. And even then, you might be able to get away with it if you have friends in high places or a really, really, REALLY good reason for it.
Just about everything else, including insubordination, can be justified away with the right quoting of regulations.
>>46889708
>ST:DS9 RPG
How did I not know this
>>46887896
>Why aren't there any Star Trek RPGs or wargames that people actually play?
They've all been bad. Alternatively there hasn't been any great ones.
The problem with all licensed games is they're expensive and the IP holders always meddle with the product being put out, which adds significant hurdles to the process.
>>46890047
It is kinda funny that a lot of the stuff that was made up in the FASA RPG so they'd have a base to actually run an RPG on was actually added to the show(s) later.
>>46889494
Aren't there star fleet battles threads every couple of weeks?
>>46887896
>Time to bite!
Space fantasy is far more fun to play in to a popular audience. Even within niche hobbies, what's popular is what 'people actually play'.
>>46887896
The games exist, and they aren't as popular as Star Wars or 40k. There's no "best" setting, it's just the setting that people have the most fun with and want to play. The threads and sales show more people want to play Star Wars or 40k, so that's where the money is.
Yo.
Star Terk is hard because it's usually not actually about just full retard shooting from the hip and derping around.
Also 40kids and similar folks find it hard to get into a social/sciecen/politics style game if they can't just shoot or kill their way through it.
>>46888725
Case and point. This poster assumes that Trek follows a very strict procedure when in fact it goes from space hippes/space buddy cops/space wars and exploration and everything in between.
Just look at The Sisko. He's primary a Commander, Prophet, Father, and Diplomat. I think most roleplayers from /tg/ would be pretty hard pressed to make a similar character and would probably just start screaming "MARY SUE" while their regular rpg chracters kill hundreds of people without issue or recourse.
YO.
There are lot of reasons.
Part of it is that the people who own Star Treks IP have been really lazy and irresponsible with it's preservation and development.
They let companies like WizKids half-ass licensed products.
There have been a few gems.
They don't seem to get very well marketed.
>>46889001
>>46889028
I'd rather play something in DS9 during the Dominion invasion. Combat potential and intrigue abound.
At least "you all start in Quark's" is a shitton better than starting in a regular tavern.
>>46890636
>you all start in Quark's
No matter what game I run next in any universe, this will be my opening line.
>>46890636
I'm pretty sure most combat during the Dominion invasion is "You get stomped by a Dominion ship" or "You stomp them because you're the Dominion and they aren't."
At least in the TOS era there are actual fights that can go either way.
>>46890660
I'd be fine with it. Reminds me of that episode Little Green Men, the guy has jumped through time and space and it's well established that he cares less for the implications if he can turn around and make money selling dumb shit to gullible idiots. Cue adventurers.
>>46890698
There's actually a ton of opportunity for skirmishing.
>While the Allies suffered repeated defeats in large fleet actions, Starfleet and Klingon ships had greater success in raiding operations and in combating small patrols of Jem'Hadar ships. Such operations included the destruction of the Dominion's primary ketracel-white storage facility in the Alpha Quadrant, and the destruction of a massive Dominion sensor array in the Argolis Cluster.
Which culminates in larger battles;
>With no word having arrived from the Klingons, and only two-thirds of the Starfleet force assembled, Vice Admiral William Ross authorised Benjamin Sisko to lead the 627 ships assembled in an effort to prevent the Dominion from removing the mines. In response, Dukat pulled 1,254 warships from the front lines to intercept the Federation fleet, stalling Dominion advances into Allied territory.
That's at the height of the invasion.
>>46890698
Barring the few times the Dominion was successfully stopped in military action, that would make them more like a force to avoid while fighting what you can when you must -until you can work up to their level somehow.
Sort of like the Reapers in ME or Terminators or Agents in the Matrix. It just establishes a cat and mouse dynamic for the first two acts, making that third act more rewarding. Variations up the writer and what the players want, obviously.
>>46890825
To be fair, if Star Fleet wasn't coasting on the Miranda and Excelsior classes, they would probably have kicked the Dominion's face in, since their multipurpose exploration ships routinely measure up to the dedicated warships of every other power.
>>46890660
>the party has spent a long, complex high fantasy quest saving the kingdom from the evil lich
>finally, at long last, they confront the BBEG
>weapons are drawn, monologues are spoken
>moments before the first blow is struck, Quark barges into the throne room and demands the players either buy another time slot or get out of his holosuit
>>46890859
The Cardassians say the Defiant is one of the most heavily armed warships in the quadrant so I believe it.
Hell a fleet of Defiants would have laid waste but building just the first one was a pretty huge deal at the time.
>>46890878
Glorious.
Fund it.
>>46888339
>Star Wars has somehow remained popular
I think you are correct that Star Trek is "more cerebral", which partly explains it. But I think there's even a bigger trend here: Star Wars is basically fantasy, when Star Trek is strictly scifi. And fantasy will always appeal to more people than scifi.
>>46887896
Wouldn't really work well for a standard rpg, mechanically, because really there are two categories of enemies in star trek: things that you can kill with one shot from a phaser, or things you can't kill.
>>46890923
Absolutely, and that's just a small escort. Imagine a full scale Battleship built by Starfleet.
"Borg Cube! 1v1 me!"
>>46890972
>two categories of enemies in star trek
>things that you can kill with one shot from a phaser, or things you can't kill.
>The 40kid line of reasoning where other things are only in the game to die.
This is why Star Trek games generally don't work. Roleplayers are anti-social autists who don't understand diplomacy and negotiations.
Pic related; when you overcome the evil empire you don't kill them all. Well adjusted people write treaties and make concessions.
>>46890878
Joking aside I am genuinely considering using this in a one-shot fantasy game.
>>46891086
If by roleplayers you mean people who play videogames, then yes.
Besides, I'm sure Star Trek could cater to those players as well, especially in a more campy TOS era game. You could hunt tribbles and stuff.
>>46890317
No, that's just how long it takes to play one game.
>>46887896
>Noblebright
>objectively better
But that's not Grimdark, at all
>>46888087
Base it on TOS then. In the pilot, the captain defeats an alien race trying to control his mind by holding pure hatred for them in his heart, then leaves them on their planet to die out with basically no consolation whatsoever. Kirk hits people in the face fairly often too.
It's worked out just fine for my group.
But that's because the GM is intentionally trying to make each session or two roll up like an episode of the show.
>>46891086
One of the reasons I liked that series is because, for the majority of it, the evil empire fought and was fought using every weapon in the arsenal: diplomacy, commerce, espionage, culture -manipulating religious conceptions and public opinion, in addition to shooting all the dakka.
The Dominion didn't fuck around. They undermined your intelligence network, attacked morale, turned allies against you, devalued your currency, starved you of supplies, stole your March Madness bracket picks, and took a hot shit on your favorite rug. Meanwhile they're striving to appear to your people as a better option than you. They came to divide and conquer, not pointlessly destroy.
The problem with Star Trek is that it's not a setting where violence really happens, and most people would be rather firing rockets from their asshole and slicing aliens apart with their chainsword in something like 40k or doing superhero shit on D&D
There are successful story-driven RPGs but they're mostly GRIMDAAARK stuff like WoD, and most people don't have the imagination to make a essentially Utopian setting like Star Trek work
>>46891520
You could go pretty hard in a setting based on TOS. Literally the only stipulation is that you just knock out people unless they seriously harm or actively try to kill you.
>>46889886
>There's really only one rule in Star Fleet that they really won't let you get away with, and that's the Prime Directive.
>Every Captain proceeds to give fuck all about the Prime Directive every other episode.
Kek. The Prime Directive is only there to be broken.
>>46891568
Read one sentence further.
I'm about halfway into TOS, and I'd like to try a Trek RPG. But I can barely imagine what it'd look like.
Probably a series of relatively short and self-contained adventures. Little progression between them because PCs are either highly competent officers already or expendable redshirts. Not even ship upgrades if you're playing as the Starfleet (and I haven't seen any private ships introduced yet).
Maintaining a command structure is fine, so long as the group is competent enough to agree on roles.
Now that I think about it, it'll probably call for a more narrative-focused game, especially if you go for a main characters/officers angle.
>>46891064
I know. It's fucking sickening that the pansy faggot liberals in charge of Starfleet never built an actual Military-Oriented vessel despite having been in dozens of wars: Dominion, Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Blue guys with antennae, a bunch of other fish people.
>>46887896
>He doesn't play Star Trek Attack Wing
>>46891648
Nobody needs warships when they have plot armor, m8
>>46891685
Neither does anyone else.
You know why.
>>46891648
There are too many pacifist planets in the Federation for them to fund something like that. Hell, sometimes they have trouble getting taxes out of some planets just because they *might* end up going into an armed ship. That's why they have "heavy research vessels" that are better armed and armored than most other military warships in the setting.
>>46887896
Because all the media of it is focused on three or so vessels and the crews and sometimes conflict with other civilizations, rather than a world that is explored much more in the main series.
Basically, someone who watches a Star Wars movie has a lot more room to work with than someone that watches a Star Trek movie
>>46891715
who's this celestial slut?
>>46891916
Somebody in jail now for exposing herself to kids on her lawn or some shit.
>>46888175
So you play a redshirt.
>>46891643
I like the idea of being a named officer for roleplaying and politicking on the ship but playing Engisn Ricky redshirts when it comes time to beam down on away missions.
Alternatively, every PC officer beams down with a few redshirts in tow that act as 'hitpoints', dying instead of you when you do stupid shit until only you remain to fight the Gorn all Kirk-style.
>>46887896
But anon, there are.
>>46892073
More like you have redshirts with you and take cover.
A phaser does 75 stun damage, a human starfleet officer has 40+4d10 endurance.
>>46892091
Right, I had the redshirts-as-resources idea, too. Makes sense for an officer to have a group of subordinates, as well. I guess it really turns into more of a strategy as you manage them to solve the episode's mystery.
>>46891916
>who's this celestial slut?
Kes. From the first few seasons of Voyager.
>>46889494
i have played it. and, it is the epitome of CHUNK rules and hex n' chit madness.
to be squarely honest, Star Trek was literally at it's best in the original Series to DS9. to break down what made star trek good: you had the ability to fight, but each episode had typically a puzzle and a moral quandry. add ancient space aliens and pseudo science....maybe even a what-if scenaro.
....boom, StarTrek.
ST would make a great RPG,
an Ok card game
and a shit wargame.
it got all three, w 2 different iterations of the RPG.
honest truth.
>>46892230
It just seems an appropriate level of genre savvy for a lighthearted type of Star Trek game. It could be a strategy aspect of minion management but I prefer them as a more tongue in cheek representation of health. Maybe you can 'spend' them to advance the plot somehow?
Hell, I might sit down and make a system of it for a sort of casual beer-and-pretzels game.
It may not be in the usual spirit of Star Trek, but I find the idea of a skirmish wargame set during the Eugenics Wars very appealing.
>>46889494
Star Fleet: A Call to Arms was pretty good.
More detailed and tactical than the current X-Wing clone, but nowhere near the massive tome that Star Fleet Battles was.
The big think that killed SF: ACTA before it could even take off was production delays.
Mongoose Publishing and Amarillo Design Bureau really shit the bed on that one...
It was a good game. People here on /tg/ were excited for it. The rules were short, but solid, and it felt like a naval combat game, much like Firestorm Armada or Dystopian Wars, only set in a not-quite Trek setting.
>>46892348
I think Trek is fundamentally serious, cerebral (that's the word they use, right?) sci-fi, even when it's being silly. Of course, that was fifty years ago, so now it's really easy to make fun of. And a game specifically making fun of it can be pretty great.
But I'd like to see if the original spirit can be recreated at all today.It'd be a bunch of gay spacemen dealing with a few recently assimilated planets while discussing ethics in holodeck simulation design, isn't it.
Fasa's Starship Tactical Combat Simulator works really well for space battles between two or more ships. It's what we've been using for our space battles.
You get to allocate power to the different subsystems and then blow some fuckers away with torpedoes and phasers. What's not to love about it?
>>46892566
Yes, it would be more of a concept poking fun at hokey Star Trek narrative convention and that of older sci-fi in general.
If "sacrifice a redshirt to advance the plot" is a legitimate game action to take then yeah, it doesn't take itself too seriously. I might try my hand at it and posting it up for /tg/ if I'm happy with what I have.
>>46891715
Wiz kids went "fuck it" to game balance and as a result power creep in later additions got so out-of-control as to render the game unplayable.
The addition of the Borg faction ships was the benchmark for where the downward spiral began.at least as I saw it, I still keep my Attack Wing stuff, hoping, in vain, to perhaps one day to be able to play it once again.
>>46893018
I hope you get your wish, anon.
Gentlemen...
>>46891648
The the start of TNG the Federation had gone through a long period of no major wars. The conflict with the Cardassians was referred to as "boarder wars" implying it was limited in scope. Besides that there hadn't been much going on militarily since Kirk's time.
The Klingons were allies. The Romulans were going through a period of isolationism. The Borg and Dominion hadn't been encountered yet. The "blue guys with antenna" are Andorians. They're part of the Federation.
Later they do start building dedicated warships in response to the Borg and Dominion threats. Like the Defiant-class and Prometheus-class.
>>46894491
*At the start
>>46893018
At this point I'm actually kinda hoping Wizkids looses the license soon. So someone else can take a shot at making a modern Star Trek wargame.
The Flight Path System can be a lot of fun, but X-Wing does it better. It doesn't really suit Star Trek very well anyway. Most Trek ships aren't limited to a forward firing arc.
Beep beep. Best ship coming through.
>>46887896
Cause all the star trek games made suck which is sad to say
>>46895046
I've always been fond of the old D7's.
>>46890955
>Star Wars is basically fantasy, when Star Trek is strictly scifi.
I don't really understand the delineation. Half the shit Spock did was pretty out there and every other episode there was a super-powerful energy being.
>>46895046
I really have to agree with this...huge multipurpose ships... bigger then a galaxy class, better armed, just a lil slower then a galaxy class. + Cloaking Device... The Romulans did not fuck around when it came to warbirds.
The Romulans really where the most interesting race that never really got a good amount of screen time in any of the shows.
Picture unrelated.
>>46895207
Why do you feel energybeing violate some rule here?
But yeah, I guess "strictly" was a bit of an overstatement. I understand if others don't agree with me,
Still I feel that the destiction between Star Wars and Star Trek is pretty clear.
>>46887896
>Why aren't there any Star Trek RPGs
There have been at least three official Star Trek RPGs, but no one ever holds onto the license for very long.
FASA - 1982 to 1989
Last Unicorn Games - 1998 to 1999
Decipher - 2002 to 2005
>>46895305
The only Trek RPG that seemed feasible to me (though not super feasible) was ADB's Prime Directive (set in the Star Fleet Universe), where players weren't members of a normal ship crew, but a specialized team of highly skilled, cross trained Scientist/Commando/Diplomats who went around solving various problems and putting out fires. Instead of a bigass cruiser they typically tooled around in a highly advanced, but still rather limited cutter, something like an oversized DS9 style runabout (pic related, but not from ADB/Prime Directive).
Its got the advantage of being the TOS era, which means the federation frontier was less explored, communications were slower, and the technology/technobable less bullshitable. It also means the players can't solve problems by orbital phaser strikes, throwing waves of redshirts at the problem, or whatever else the resources of a full capital ship might provide.
>>46895278
I've heard it said by a lot of people.
>Why do you feel energybeing violate some rule here?
Maybe you could portray them in a believable (if highly speculative) way, but that's really not how they were done. And if we want to look at TNG, Q is all sorts of ridiculous.
>>46895046
Number of successful military engagements attributable to Romulan warbirds: 0
>>46895255
I love how Garak was always pissing on the Romulans while spooging over muh Cardassia. Romulans would shit all over your fuckboy pseudo-Nazi Union.
A personal favorite.
>>46890580
that game is baller
>>46888175
>One solid shot and you're done.
Isn't this accurate to Star Trek? Phasers set to kill kill in one shot. Disruptors kill in one shot.
>>46895435
Only the entire second half of the dominion war you dolt.
>>46895278
In terms of the soft vs hard sci-fi scale, they're both pretty soft. The difference is that Star Wars is an epic adventure story, while Star Trek is usually about social/moral commentary and exploring "what if?" scenarios.
Both franchises are big enough that they have plenty of overlap though. Star Trek has episodes and movies that are mostly about how the heroes beat the bad guys. The Star Wars EU raises questions like "How are clone troopers any different than slaves?" at times.
>>46890955
>And fantasy will always appeal to more people than scifi.
>he doesn't know about the Great Wheel of Speculative Fiction
I know it broke in the 90s and has been stuck on "Fantasy" for a while, but prior to that fantasy regularly traded places with science fiction every ten years or so for the top of the genre heap.
>>46895522
They were along for the ride. That's about it.
If you'll recall, even once allied all the Romulans really did was protect their own borders. The threat of a massed attack was enough to spread out Cardassian/Dominion resources a bit thinner, but that was the their only meaningful contribution. Ever time we see Romulan warbirds go into battle they lose horribly.
Battle of Chin'toka, battle of the Omarion Nebula, etc
>>46887896
>Objectively better
Star trek has 0 balls compared to start wars and 40k.
Who the fuck would pick friendly looking flight attendants with flashlights over giant stupid space knights or hilarious aliens and space nazis?
Star Trek is seriously the unsexiest setting ever, it doesn't matter whether or not the books or movies are better or worse because it completely lacks flair when it comes to putting toy soldiers on the table.
Star trek is basically star wars if the entire franchise was set on a star destroyer and everyone was nice, and if that doesn't make you throw up in your mouth, you should go stand in the corner.
>>46895581
I've heard that claim before, but what's the evidense? I know pulp scifi was a thing some decades ago, but in general I know little about what goes on in the book world. Yet when it comes to TV and movies, scifi always seems more niche.
>>46895529
Exactly. The difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is not the trappings, but their approach to storytelling. Trek is about the modern day issues and exploring morally gray areas, asking questions like "we can, but should we?" It is about looking to the future.
SW is about looking backwards, a traditional good triumphing over evil story with pew pew and wizards (in space).
>>46895588
True. Romulans were important because they held the key position in the balance of power, not because of the prowess of their fleet.
>>46895588
>Battle of Chin'toka
The allies won that battle, and both the Klingons and Federation had more on-screen loses than the Romulans.
>battle of the Omarion Nebula
That was an ambush in which they were vastly outnumbered.
>>46895409
I don't see any reason something closer to the shows couldn't work as an RPG premise, as long as the players aren't locked into murder hobo mode. Exploring strange new worlds (that all seem to have one major problem/mystery that needs looking into) seems like a pretty ideal RPG setup.
>players can't solve problems by orbital phaser strikes, throwing waves of redshirts at the problem
If you're playing Starfleet officers, that sort of behavior should be unacceptable in most situations.
>>46887896
There is an epic Microlite d20 pocket mod called "Where No Man Has Gone Before" that does a great job of capturing the campy feel of Star Trek. I ran a pbp game of it for about 2 years, and good times were had. I had to stop because I ran out of time and one of the newer players turned out to be a fucking munchkin and a whiner.
One thing that is a little important with a Star Trek game is that you have to have players who don't mind sacrificing a little bit of player agency to get placed in bizarre situations. Childish, nearly omnipotent aliens and malfunctioning alien devices are everyday occurrences for any good Starfleet bridge crew.
>>46895738
Bloody hell, climatic change must be true, summer arrives earlier each year.
>>46890636
DS9 was clearly the best Trek series since it had much more continuity due to the characters having to stick around and deal with the consequences of their actions.
The downside was that they couldn't just warp away from dumb episodes or ideas from the writing team, and over the seasons those kind of added up.
Sisko as the Prophet was fucking retarded. I'd also call out the alternate universe story arc if it wasn't freaking hilarious.
>>46895620
>Who the fuck would pick friendly looking flight attendants with flashlights over giant stupid space knights or hilarious aliens and space nazis?
I agree that a Star Trek ground combat game would be bad. The models would be boring, and every attack would be a one hit kill.
Starships are a completely different matter. I'd gladly take a quality galaxy-class model over a imperial star wedge or a church with engines. Unfortunately the only game with a galaxy-class mini is made by Wizkids.
>>46896313
>develop warp travel
>have a blast shitting on those sentient pacifist herbivores you found derping around on interplanetary drives a couple systems over
>your slave trade is a roaring success across an entire quarter of your open cluster
>suddenly a giant saucer rolls up and does this to your whole raiding flotilla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds#t=17s
I love those moments where the Galaxy class gets portrayed as the extravagant big stick of the Federation in the midst of their biggest "warship-free" phase.
>>46896626
I like how, when Starfleet finally got serious, they made their warship smaller and meaner rather than bigger and more majestic. Same thing with the Dominion, although they had big ships too. The d'deridex may be my forever girl, but destroyers in space are just plain badass.
>>46896706
The Dominion actually went the opposite direction over the course of the show. Adding cruisers, and later battleships.
>>46896844
I wonder if the Prometheus could take on that battleship.
>>46896865
My first instinct would be to say no, due to the sheer size difference. Background info says the Prometheus is suppose to be 415m long. Which makes it a little shorter than the Excelsior. On the other hand, the Defiant routinely takes on alien warships much bigger than itself.
>>46889804
There's an easy way around that. Don't join Starfleet.
>>46895255
It was, I think, because they were one of the few cases of a civilization making an inter-stellar empire before getting a working warp-drive.
Back in their early days every ship had to be able to do everything because help is 50 years away and if you fuck up you are dead.
I like to think that they kept the mentality of massive over preparedness into their warp era.
Those bigass ships are bigger than a galaxy class but less devastating because they are too generalized.
They are warships + spy ships + science ships + prospector ships + passenger ferries + traveling hospital with multiple backup systems for each thing on the ship. They also have much mass for the extra crew and the reason why they need more crew is just in case they get stranded and they need the genetic diversity.
Basically if one crashes on a planet that is even half-way habitable you go an instant colony.
They are also colony ships.
If the Romulan Empire falls and their people are genocided to the last child and just one of these ships survives and get out into uncharted space you got 150 - 200 years before a new Empire is coming to get you.
Why don't future settings depict more LGBT? It's a trend that these kind of things get lived more open in the present, and it's likely to only increase in the future.
Pic is tg related. Also, /tg/ related.
What if you play as Klingons?
>>46899036
Because in Star Trek they seem to have cured all the current day diseases.
>>46899471
Except for the ones they just stopped giving a shit about, culturally, like baldness.
>>46890527
Sisko also a stone cold motherfucker and sci fi writer
>>46899505
Or they do have a cure for baldness but Piccard just doesn't give a shit.
>>46895522
> sir the romulan flagship has just gone down!
Git gud scrubs
>>46889085
Roddenberry would have ruined it like Lucas did star wars without oversight. He wanted Troi to be a hypersexual hermaphroditic alien with 4 breasts.
>>46899879
Also in the Roddenberry future there would be no interpersonal conflicts between humans.
I kid you not that was one of the things he was pushing for.
>>46899879
This could only have been an improvement
>>46887896
Because for a long time discussing Aliens, Star Trek, or Star Wars got you banned because an idiot mod went crazy and only allowed what he thought was /tg/ on the board.
I find it funny how some decades earlier he made that episodes where an alien had Not America and Not the Soviet Union with Kirk reading the American Declaration of Independence to the aliens and bringing an American flag.
>>46899920
Would his humans even be individual humans at that point? It would be a more hive mind like the borg because no one would have a dissenting opinion
>>46900008
Yeah but theyd also have quirky personalities. Itd be like office (us) in space
>>46899980
People often forget, Kirk is from Iowa. He only works in space.
>>46891404
Grimdark a shit.
Nobledark a best.
>>46896313
Star trek ships are for Apple fags, real men want broadsides and ramming speed.
>>46900077
I want autonomous drone swarms, interplanetary artillery bombardments and rocket propelled asteroid crashes.
>>46899036
>Why don't future settings depict more LGBT? It's a trend that these kind of things get lived more open in the present, and it's likely to only increase in the future.
You're getting it backwards. In the future people have mellowed out and the lack of persecution has made LBGT people stop it with the ridiculous reactionary attentionwhoring.
If people don't give a shit any more there's no reason to band together in a giant tribe that throws parades to show how they don't let others bring them down.
In the grim darkness of the far future, being a guy who likes guys is just another flavour of quirky, like being into fat chicks or feet. Nobody bases their entire identity on that.
>>46900165
This guy gets it.
>>46900144
Except that would turn into a terribly abstract tg game, people want cool toys to put on the table, not battles taking place over sensible distances in space.
Tall ship combat with lasers is way more fun than space submarines and kill sattelites fighting over thousands of kilometres of space.
>>46900165
You say that like there aren't people who base their identity around being into fat chicks. Or feet.
>>46900231
>or feet.
Lookin' at you Tarantino.
>>46900225
Iunno, I imagine it would be more like a battleship-style game, with abilities which allow for intelligence gathering and calculating trajectories, reactions for dealing with things like signal jams or decoy swarms to penalize enemy attacks, and then "your dudes" could be the things you reveal each time someone manages to get a full scan on one.
Then the reveal of "look how cool my ship is" can have its own style to it, because suddenly they ping this big fucking nightmare and drop their jaw realizing what they're dealing with.
>>46900231
Yeah, but we consider these "people" creepy and avoid them, not cater to them because they feel marginalized.
In the far future we'd do the same to gays/transfolk/whatever because it's just a thing you do, and being obsessed with it is the creepy part.
>>46900323
Actually the Helmsman from First Contact, Hawk, is canonically gay.
>>46899142
You might actually have fun.
>>46899036
Considering the advanced medical technology, a woman, the next generation, would probably be indistinguishable from a woman, the original series, so that really wouldn't be an issue. As far as to why there isn't more gayness? Star Trek was mostly made in 20th century America and wasn't until like two years ago that we suddenly decided that gay people aren't so scary after all.. Of course there is this: https://youtu.be/2lZayNvimSU?t=2m29s which is brilliant because it plays out like the issue is a taboo against homosexuality, but that actually has absolutely nothing to do with it, and exactly nobody had any problem whatsoever with the fact that it involves two women (to the point where it isn't ever even commented on).
>>46899036
Homosexuality is completely accepted by society and there are no issues pertaining to discrimination or equal rights left for people to talk about. Transgender people aren't born because developmental disorders are easily detectable and corrected prior to birth or during early childhood, the Federation also has the capability to surgically alter someone to be an (apparently) functioning member of the opposite sex and the process is entirely reversible.
Essentially the differences and issues pertaining to LGBT people that define them are either non-existent or accepted as part of ordinary society.
>>46899879
>He wanted Troi to be a hypersexual hermaphroditic alien with 4 breasts.
At least that would be interesting. As it is, Troi was the most pointless character on that show... though certainly not the most obnoxious (I'm looking at you, Wesley).
>>46899036
>>46901173
>>46901211
This.
In Future Utopia nobody has anything wrong with them and there are no minority groups based on modern issues.
Future special interest groups are people like cyborgs, the geneticly engineered and artificial beings.
>>46887896
I've watched TOS, and the only thing I can say about it is that it pretty much is what a bunch of PCs would do given the opportunity to dick around in a post-scarcity world setting out to explore space with hyperlight travel.
>>46895207
>D7 class
Top tier taste anon.
>>46898642
Is there any fluff to back this up?
Because I like it.
>>46901352
There are special interest groups representing political parties and specific planets with similar locations (Such as along a specific border, or in a certain part of a sector) or cultural ideals (Like being too hippy even for Star Fleet to handle).
>>46902029
tangentially related
there wer a couple of episodes in Ds9 where it was predicted while the Federation would ultimately lose the Dominon War that it would come back stonger and better and eventually conquer the Dominion give or take a century
>>46895694
It's historically valid. There were many periods where fantasy just didn't sell at all, in books or movies, and if an author wanted to write a fantasy story he had to dress it up as SF in order to get published.
Movies moved slower than books, but still moved. How many major fantasy movies can you think of prior to 1980's Conan? How many Science Fiction blockbusters were there?
>>46898642
A D'deridex would fucking destroy a Galaxy in a straight fight (assuming equally competent crews and no plot armor), and that's before you factor in cloaking.
I don't know much about roleplaying games, but how do they tackle something like several characters working on a shared problem?
Let's say everyone has something like a "science stat" and they are assigned to hurry up a project for completition. How to make it so that several people working on it is better than a single person, but also that you can't just "bruteforce it" by stacking a huge amount of people to solve it?
>>46891648
Humans have a serious self loathing complex when it comes to warfare because, in Trek, we nearly drove ourselves to extinction three separate times in a couple of centuries with warfare that got out of hand. Thats what made is change our ways to become Starfleet and the liberal space future we know and love.
Its not that Mankind, in Star Trek, can't make better weapons. But they are absolutely terrified of what they would use them for if they had them.
Its like a recovered addict getting into an accident and being prescribed pain pills. They know that if they take the pills, even if the pills are reasonable in this circumstance, they are on a slippery slope to their old ways that ruined their life last time.
You have seen the supertech that the Federation is sitting on. Against the Doominion and the Borg, they managed to still not be pushed to their breaking point where they sacrifice their morals in return for victory. Which is good for the galaxy, because the only thing keeping the Federation from being absolute monsters of war in their ethics.
They could be producing ships that phase out of our universe for supercloaking that makes them immune to conventional weapons, armed with planet busters, and designed without leaving warp within a week. These are all techs they canon have, just refuse to use.
Because they closed that door for a reason, and opening it again would damn themselves and doom everyone else.
>>46902070
You are correct. I was just referring to groups based on innate differences rather than cultural or geopolitical biz.
>>46902906
>armed with planet busters
A single TNG-era starship can bust a planet on its own, given about half an hour.
>>46902991
You don't even have to go TNG, Kirk threatens to do it a couple times.
>>46889028
>I have never seen DS9: The post.
>>46888339
It's not necessarily about being smarter, but being more willing to engage with vexed social issues and finding that fun.
Star Trek has whole episodes that consist of people talking about whether an android is a person, or if people are responsible for the crimes of their fathers.
But sitting down to play "take a stance on touchy social topics: The RPG" is usually not a comfortable experience, even among friends. And if you throw out all the ethics conundrums and political disputes, you basically just have a pulp space exploration game like the filler episodes of TOS. People play plenty of those, as evidenced by stuff like this >>46888119 but it's not really the "full Star Trek experience".
>>46902991
They're full of antimatter, they can wreck entire planets just by dumping fuel if they want.
>>46902991
Then why did Tain feel like he needed to get Romulan help in order to take out the Founders' world? He had like a dozen Galors.
>>46903089
To fight the dominion warships.
Did you miss the part where they talked about damage estimations on the planet? They were literally talking in terms of destroying the planets crust minutes. The intent wasn't to wipe out facilities or even cities, it was to render the planet geologically incapable of being inhabited.
>>46903040
You can't go around robbing planets blind with DS9. It'd take Voyager's lack of Prime Directive enforcement for PCs to last a session.
>>46903089
Feddies use antimatter for their ships, the Romulans and Cardassians have other power sources.
Romulans, IIRC, use artificial black holes for their warp core. Its unstable as hell, and not actually anywhere near as powerful as a naturally occurring black holes for obvious reasons, but it gets the job done.
I don't recall, exactly, what the cardassians use. But they don't even have real replicator technology, so I doubt they use antimatter.
>>46903042
It's not just moral issues though. The coolest part of TNG is when they're sitting around the table analyzing the situation and trying to figure out what to do. It's about problem solving rather than just attitude and punching shit in the face, like JJ Trek would have you believe.
>>46903165
Man, the Cardassians really sucked, didn't they? Like, Sisko could have just hopped in the Defiant and mauled their shit at any time, but he didn't.
>>46903206
The problem is a good half of ttrpg players just want to kill monsters.
Not even really fight them, that's means there's a legitimate struggle involved. They just want to park their character next to an enemy, attack it and for it too die and for them to be rewarded for doing so without there being any real jeopardy. Even people who say they're interested in other types of game actually just turn out to be these players.
You need to have a fairly special group to be able to run a game where figuring out a difficult problem that doesn't necessarily even have a correct solution then and implementing a chosen course of action in an environment where emerging complications can then occur. Many players will just get bored because they aren't getting loot and XP and quit.
>>46903340
>have a fairly special group to be able to run a game where figuring out a difficult problem that doesn't necessarily even have a correct solution then and implementing a chosen course of action in an environment where emerging complications can then occur
The one thing on my Christmas list
>>46903165
Cardassians do use antimatter and do have replicators. Not sure where you heard otherwise.
>>46903304
The Cardassians are a reasonable threat to most people who are not the Federation. They have a couple of unique advantages, in that their armor is actually slightly better than Federation armor because their lack of replicators forced them to delve into more advanced metallurgy. But they are completely out-teched.
If the Federations of an expansionist empire, the Cardassians would get rolled. The only reason that the Cardassian war didn't end with the fall of Cardassia is because the Federation hates being the aggressor.
>>46903340
Oh, I'm not arguing that a game that centers on cerebral problem solving isn't a hard sell, I'm just saying that I think that's more the issue than not wanting to get into arguments over morality (though that too).
>>46903420
A big point of the political tension that lead into the first cardassian war was them wanting industrial rreplicator tech and the feddies refusing to give it to them, to the point that they raided Starfleet bases in the hopes of stealing it.
The Cardassians have stolen personal replicator tech, those microwave looking things you see in officer quarters and such. But as Chief O'Brein can attest they are notoriously shit and they are constantly breaking down, and they don't have REAL replicators like the Federation has. Industrial replicators, the kind of stuff that can print starships and make the really advanced materials and substances, were well out of cardassian reach until the Federation tried to send some to the Cardassians as part of the relief effort. Thats why it pissed off the Marquis so much, because the Cardassians getting that technology after all this time felt too much like the carddies 'winning in the end', so they jacked the transport.
>>46903511
Your target group is largely going to be forever DMs, who're all stuck being DMs forever.
>>46903455
also fuck huge forward phaser banks
>>46899879
>He wanted Troi to be a hypersexual hermaphroditic alien with 4 breasts.
You say this like it's a bad thing.
>>46899036
Mostly because of censors. Star Trek is a family friendly franchise, and most of it was made in a time when popular opinion still held that any depiction of gays was inappropriate for children.
There are occasional signs that it's just a non-issue in the Trek future though. When Dax wanted to get back with her spouse from another lifetime, the issue was the Trill taboo again repeating relationships. No one ever suggested that the fact that they were both currently women was a problem.
There wouldn't be any transgender people because sexual reassignment is an outpatient procedure.
>>46903963
I thought it was just universally accepted throughout the Federation that the Dax symbiotic is a total slut
>>46899879
Roddenberry WAS ruining it like Lucas. Imagine if the first season of TNG was the all that got made. Fans would despise it just as much as the prequels. Even first season Enterprise was better than first season TNG.
>>46903874
>even having phaser banks other than forward
>>46903089
The Romulans provided the cloaking devices. The whole plan hinged on the Dominion not seeing them coming. Which is of course why it utterly failed.
>>46903561
I don't know where you get the idea that Cardasssians didn't have their own replicator tech. At one point in the series they ask the Federation for some industrial replicators for disaster relief purposes. It wasn't about upgrading their tech. It was about just needing more of he physical machines than they had, because the Klingons had been blowing up all their stuff. Later in the series the Cardassian Union gives some industrial replicators to Bajor as a token of good will.
We know they use antimatter for weapons at least. The Cardassian missile in Voyager had an anti-matter warhead.
Cardassian tech is definitely second rate compared to the Federation, but they aren't that far behind.
>>46904242
Being able to shoot in any direction is kinda nice.
>>46891453
I only recently started watching TOS (after having only ever seen the JJ films) and it was totally different from what I was expecting. Ignore the tone, ignore the main characters' plot armor. That show is fucking BLEAK. The Enterprise is a deathtrap that's always being infiltrated by murderous aliens or creepy psychic teenagers. Ensigns on away parties have the approximate survival rate of kamikaze pilots. You couldn't pay me enough to sign on, especially in a nearly post-scarcity world.
>>46905165
FUCK PEREGRINES/ MAQUIS RAIDERS
>>46900894
Only what happens on screen is canon in Star Trek, and there was no reference to his sexual orientation in the movie. He is gay is the novels. Riker's chief of security on the Titan was Hawk's husband.
RPG campaign concept: "Edge of the Federation"
The players are a crew of criminals operating on the outskirts of Federation space. Trying to get rich by catering to markets the Federation outlaws. Smuggling weapons to the Maquis. Selling tech to less advanced worlds. Transporting doctors who specialize in genetic enhancement.
>>46906083
So, Star Trek Rogue Trader? Sounds decent enough
>>46906083
>Transporting doctors who specialize in genetic enhancement.
I would play the shit out of that.
A slightly mad doctor who is trying to make people better.
Add to that a crew of misfits selling how-to-tech manuals to primitives before the Federation come along an Lord it over everyone.
>>46906291
Fuck yes.
The doctor needs to be subtle though - the UFP treats genetically-enhanced people as second-class citizens. (see DS9: Doctor Bashir, I Presume). And if they catch the doctor...
>>46906083
Maybe they have a cloaking device, but an old crappy one. Enough to sneak past civilian port authorities, but get too close to a Starfleet ship and jig is up.
>>46905529
The joke about red shirts dying is a thing for a reason. Wear any other color and you're probably fine. I think you sort of have to view red shirts as having plot anti-armor, or whatever you'd call it.
>after having only ever seen the JJ films
Man, I hated those pieces of shit. Absolutely none of the tone of the original series. TOS was usually about something, and even if Kirk got punchy, there was still some thought put into shit. JJ Trek was a juvenile special effects extravaganza and really nothing more (and actually had me rooting for Kirk to die). Don't get me wrong, TOS has some pretty cheesy shit, and only some of it is endearing, but there's a lot it does right (and the Kirk / Spock / Bones character dynamic is just about perfect). I wish I could watch shit like The Doomsday Machine for the first time again.
>>46887896
Star Trek has come and gone. It's best days are behind it. Why dwell on it?
>>46908401
>It's best days are behind it. Why dwell on it?
Couldn't the same thing be said for Star Wars? The last good Star Wars movie was like 35 years ago.
>>46908401
>>46908456
Or any number of franchises, to be honest... But I'm hopefull the new series will re-ignate the Trek flame.
>>46908456
Not really, Star Wars is like the original special effect blockbuster movie. Hollywood never stopped making those. It's also refreshing in a market where there are 30 planned super heroe movies to come out in the next few years.
People are also not thrilled about real life Space exploration as they used be after it was revealed that space is a whole lot of nothing and worlds without life. The audience just want pulp adventures in what they would like space to be so that they can pretend for a bit that space is something else than a vacuum desert.
Not to mention that Star Wars presentation has aged better than Star Treks presentation.
>>46903036
Has it ever been established if he actually could? In the episodes I've seen, he's been threatening newly-encountered entities; ones without prior knowledge of what a Federation starship can and cannot do. He may just as well have been bluffing.
>>46903340
>figuring out a difficult problem that doesn't necessarily even have a correct solution then and implementing a chosen course of action in an environment where emerging complications can then occur.
But that sounds super interesting!
>>46908671
It is, but not to "typical" players as experienced by me and many others
>>46904230
Patrik Stewart did a lot to elevate it.
>>46908580
Counterpoint: Too many movies these days boil down to special effects, and while Star Wars special effects were truly revolutionary in their day, they're not anymore. And the original Star Wars wasn't just special effects. Considering how niche and geeky (back when geeky meant bad things) science fiction was back then, Star Wars had an incredibly involved story. The old recommendation about scifi is that you should just change one major thing so as not to lose your audience, and Star Wars said "fuck that".
JJ Trek's problem is that it tried to make Star Trek something it wasn't. I mean, it made plenty of money and got good reviews (95% if you can fucking believe it), but it had no soul or integrity, and was completely forgettable. Hell, it had more plot holes than actual plot. But just because it did Trek wrong doesn't mean that it's no longer possible to do it right. You just need the right people in charge. And granted, that may be a tall order, particularly since they need to recapture what was good about rather than just continue a winning trend.
>>46899879
>He wanted Troi to be a hypersexual hermaphroditic alien with 4 breasts
One of us! One of us! One of us!
>>46891648
'Blue Guys with antennae' aren't a foe-species, they're Andorians, and they're an integral part of the Federation and one of the primary contributors to Starfleet.
>>46908824
To be fair they get mostly sidelined on screen despite their status as a founder.
>>46908752
I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that the audience didn't go away despite 3 infamous movies in a row. Star Trek just seemed to disappear as a TV show and it always worked better as a TV show than movies.
>>46907255
Into the rape planets with you lot! An dont think about escapin from this ere biscit hole or ill bugger the lot of ya
I like to think the federation sent anybody with a cockney accent to man their correctional facilities
JJ Trek is very bad Star Trek. It is, however, an excellent action movie that just happens to be Star Trek branded.
Although based on what's been going on past the movies, I don't think we can truly blame JJ for the horridness. The writing team of Orci and Krutzman though... They're basically bad fanfic writers who got author permission to take over...
Since we're just talking about Trek at this point, is there any info about the new Star Trek series?
>>46908989
Well, the studio also probably demanded it to be revisioned to be more appealing for the current generation of movie goers.
>>46909061
Game of Thrones in space.
Best official Star Trek RPG: Last Unicorn Games, with FASA modules/sourcebooks and the GURPS sourcebooks for inspiration. Personally, I'd go with either LUG's TOS or DS9 books, but the TNG book is solid too.
(To put things into context, LUG basically did with the Star Trek licence what FFG have done with the Star Wars licence - put different styles of play into separate books. TOS was rough & tumble while still being the good guys [thought you could play Klingons], TNG was more thinking and talking things over, and DS9 was all about being lowlives and smugglers. A Voyager book was announced, but it never came out.)
Best unofficial Trek RPGs: Far Trek for campaigns, Lasers & Feelings for one-shots.
>>46899036
>>46903963
Back when Marvel had the Star Trek licence in the 90's, they ran a comic where a gay guy and a homophobic alien butted heads. It was actually really well-handled. I can storytime it, if people want...
>>46899142
LUG's TOS book has chargen for Klingons
>>46908860
>Star Trek just seemed to disappear as a TV show and it always worked better as a TV show than movies.
A bad movie with special effects can still entertain people, but a bad series is harder to sustain, I think. Star Trek just seemed to slowly lose its way. And you're right about it working much better in TV show than movie format.
But I think it's sort of like back with Pixar was a new thing and Disney seemed to conclude that the reason its movies weren't doing as well was because they weren't 3D like the Pixar stuff, and kids wanted 3D stuff. And while some of that might be true, it completely overlooks the possibility that maybe the problem was that Disney's movies at the time just weren't very good.
I'm okay with getting a good original series to replace Trek, but I certainly don't think that a good Trek is impossible today.
>>46908989
> excellent action movie
>>46887896
>>46889494
Wasn't there a "Star Trek: [date]" wargame as well? I remember because one of the factions in it was the Kzinti from the Known Space stories/the animated series.
>>46909108
Weren't the Disney movies bad because with the Lion King's success they decided to move away from fairy tales? Also, Pochahontas was a hilariously bad historical revision and romantization on what today is considered pedophilia.
>>46909214
>Pochahontas was a hilariously bad historical revision and romantization on what today is considered pedophilia.
Poke what are you doing on /tg/?
>>46909289
Who?
>>46909334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJEfJ4gOq8
>>46908401
>Star Trek has come and gone. It's best days are behind it. Why dwell on it?
Nothing new has arisen to fill its niche. Stargate is probably the closest match, but its last spin-off veered off into grimdark territory and killed the franchise.
>>46908989
>It is, however, an excellent action movie that just happens to be Star Trek branded.
This implies that it is, in some respect, excellent. Yes, it's all the worse for going completely against everything Star Trek was, but even ignoring that, it was a vapid movie, full of plot holes and without much in the way of redeeming factors other than that it wasn't boring.
>>46908605
>Has it ever been established if he actually could?
In A Taste of Armageddon, when captured, he shouts for Scotty to execute general order 24 in two hours before being cut off. He tells his captors that this means the Enterprise will destroy the planet. Scotty later contacts the planet telling them: "All cities and installations of Eminiar VII have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In 1 hour and 45 minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages."
>>46909359
Okay.
I honestly thought Pochahontas was bad because it was a boring movie and the true history is infinitely more compelling.
>>46909451
I remember that I thought the villain was an idiot. He could timetravel, he is upset about his dead family and decides instead of preventing their death he will avenge them.
>>46889390
Possibly Original series Federation Scouts?
- with smaller ships to discourage going against capital ships maybe working up to a Bridge Crew that was all up promoted at the same time so they could still ignore protocol and all beam down in stupid combat missions with a few NPC grunts and lessor officers that kind of had the same function as the Grogs
in Ars Magica.
and possibly Rogue Traders... er.. merchant explorers. (to avoid the Prime Directive and also make breaking it (often) a story hook.
>>46891648
Starfleet's vessels were military oriented for the most part, it's just that all their ships aside from the smallest research craft were designed to handle extended periods (e.g. 5 years or even longer) isolated from traditional resupply or maintenance facilities.
One of the thing you have to note that this is a very useful ability if the primary strategy the federation uses is to get a handful of their cruiser sized ships deep behind enemy lines and wreck the enemies logistical capabilities for years on end until the enemy is bled dry - a strategy that put the federation on the back foot when you introduce an easily defended choke point like the bajoran wormhole or when dealing with an enemy like the Borg who subverts this tactic and uses their enemies in-situ logistical facilities for their own ends.
You've also got to bear in mind that sometime between TOS and TNG the invention of the replicator seems to have led to Starfleet taking over the Federation, presumably using their monopoly over the generation and transport of antimatter to take over the Federation in a bloodless coup. And it's not exactly unheard of for peacetime military brass to massively overengineer military vehicles to the point of undermining their supposed tactical or strategic role, especially when there's no meaningful civilian oversite to keep them in check.
I would like old school Star Trek to pick up some steam again. All this cynical atmosphere and moral ambiguity all at once makes for a trite media landscape.
>>46909543
You can do it, but at that point, you've lost some of the connection to the show, considering how fundamental the ship and its militarily stratified crew were things. So it's understandable why it'd be a harder sell.
>>46909610
Yeah, but the current Kirk and Spock are the JJ Trek versions, and it's doing well in terms of sales and critic reviews, so...
>>46892091
Again, The Ars Magica approach
>>46909698
It could probably be worse. I would honestly just want a show that focuses on all new characters. I feel that Kirk and Spock was very much defined by their actors quirks.
>>46909811
Oh, I agree. You don't want to do the same characters at all because you won't be able to do them justice. But regardless, JJ Trek has redefined classic Trek, and more people are probably into it than TOS (though not necessarily very deeply).
There is a new series in development, scheduled to premiere next year. It's going to be new characters, not a reboot. That's about all we know about it right now.
>>46909975
Yeah, those are the """fans""" alright.
>>46909807
Troupe roleplaying is pretty demanding, though. The theme of the thread seems to be that, for whatever reason, Star Trek RPGs are less accessible than other sorts of RPGs (or games). Making it more accessible with a more believable gameplay flow is just making it less accessible for another reason.
It's a cool solution all around, I'm just not sure how practical it would be for people who don't already want to play Star Trek.
>>46900062
nice reference.
>>46900225
Like ALBEDO drone use for kinetic strikes
vrs the Honorverse.
>>46910039
Wikipedia:
>It is the first Star Trek television series since Star Trek: Enterprise concluded in 2005, and is "not related" to the 2016 film Star Trek Beyond.
Awesome!
>Alex Kurtzman, co-writer of the films Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness, and Heather Kadin serve as executive producers, with CBS Television Studios producing the series with Kurtzman's Secret Hideout production company.
Fuck!
>>46910063
Ds9 based
>>46910063
>Voyager fans
>"fans"
>>46902070
Headin out to Eden....
Yeah Brother....
>>46902906
If they had reverse engendered that Berserker they "killed" in Doomsday Machine.
They also covered the Sauron Supermen with their Eugenics War and still had plenty of genies living "under cover" at the time of DS9
>>46910248
I masturbated to 7 o' 9 a couple of times
>>46910554
That's totally different
>>46909606
>You've also got to bear in mind that sometime between TOS and TNG the invention of the replicator seems to have led to Starfleet taking over the Federation, presumably using their monopoly over the generation and transport of antimatter to take over the Federation in a bloodless coup.
How do you figure? DS9 makes it very clear that Starfleet still answers to the civilian president. A Starfleet admiral attempts a coup in the name of security and Sisko puts a stop to it.
>>46910770
I'm really reminded of B5 with that description.
>>46888087
Political Intrigue is a campaign style you know. Not everything has to be sword-and-board fix-it-with-fighting powerwank.
So what if we take a step back from the setting and focus on the theme?
Something about using resources (time, crew's skills) to investigate a mystery and solve it as well as you can. You can always just shoot your way out (blow up the planet), but it's always the worst solution, the one you are forced to if you fail to come up with something more precise.
How would you run such a game?
>>46899036
There was The Outcast - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Outcast_(episode)
>>46901173
It was commented on at the time.
This ships looks dumb, but the model designer's head cannon for it sounded pretty cool. That it's a two mile long generation ship, designed to explore other galaxies. With things like large parks and universities inside, because it's an entire self-contained community.
>>46909451
And there's your game.
What we've seen in the show, you see is all propaganda.
We're looking at a Federation that has things like General Order 24, giving a starship captain the authority to turn a planet to ash if he deems it a threat to the Federation. It's essentially part of the star fleet charter. Sure, in the 'official records' it's been threatened twice, but they wrote it down.
I'm seeing journalists, whistle blowers, trying to get the truth out.
How much blood is on star fleet's hands?
>>46892018
I remember that.
Showed her pussy to like a mom and her kid.
