During the Middle Ages, how common was literacy among peasants? How did they handle signs and business names if people couldn't read?
>>46873559
Well, for one, you could look at something and generally tell what it was
secondly, signs typically had an emblem or picture of some kind
and third, people didn't travel all the fucking time and they knew what their shithole village had in it.
I vaguely remember that signs were made into recognizable symbols, especially for pubs.
People that lived in towns had greater literacy than peasants in the field. Shops tended to have a picture on their sign as well as words. So "Inn" along with a picture of a mug and a bed, for example.
Peasants in the field rarely navigated anything more than the local village, where they likely knew everyone by name. You didn't need a sign saying "Bill's Blacksmith" to know that that was the place to get new horseshoes because you're friends with Bill.
>>>/his/
>implying this isn't a thinly veiled racebait thread
I mean really, what does this topic have to do with /tg/ and what does that image have to do with it? Geez OP, you're quite the nitwit aincha?
>>46874016
>Peasants in the field rarely navigated anything more than the local village, where they likely knew everyone by name
Really? What do they spend all of their time doing if they don't go to towns or anything.
>>46874612
Drinking, building, crafts, and family stuff [especially fucking]. Maybe gathering, fishing, and hunting, depending on the laws and what was available.
>>46874669
Don't forget going to church.
It was a peaceful, but hard life. At least during times of peace.
>>46873559
In English, at least, things weren't standardized yet. Hence the myriad accents and such in places like the UK. You get the people from one city saying "The pirates are coming!" and the other saying "tha pyrates er'r come!" Or some such odd thing, essentially it was just phonetics, everyone tried to do it how it sounded to them.
>>46873559
Depends on what point of the medieval era and what country. England always had a higher literacy rate amongst the lower classes than France, particularly during the High and Late Medieval era. Different parts of Germany were the same, where as subgroups like Jews were near universally literate in every country they lived in.
>>46874758
Considering the frequency of at least some war on continental europe, that's not a whole lot of time. Especially considering that you didn't even need to be a party to the war to be a victim of it. If you simply happened to be in the way when an army travelled through, you were the one that they foraged from for supplies. And since you might not be their peasants, which were the only ones that anyone actually give a tiny bit of a shit about, things could get pretty ugly.
>>46875382
>Considering the frequency of at least some war on continental europe, that's not a whole lot of time.
Medieval warfare was a very restrained sort of warfare compared to say, the early modern or late antiquity style of war. Even foreign observers, like the envoy of the Mongol Khan Rabban Bar Sauma, that witnessed some battles in Italy and France, noticed how little it effected the non-combatants and found that odd enough (and laudable enough) to mention it in his book.
>>46873559
Before or after the Gutenberg bible?
>>46874612
>Really? What do they spend all of their time doing if they don't go to towns or anything.
Working in the fields so that they wouldn't starve to death when winter came.
>>46875455
Wait, seriously? That's pretty crazy. What influences lead up to warfare changing and affecting non-combatants then?
>>46875455
> foreign observers, like the envoy of the Mongol Khan Rabban Bar Sauma, that witnessed some battles in Italy and France, noticed how little it effected the non-combatants
The Mongols literally built mountains of the skulls of non-combatants. At Samarkand they marched the entire population of the city out into the plains outside the city, slaughtered all of them, and raised a pyramid of their severed heads as a monument to their victory.
Their impressions of European war being light on non-combatants are pretty meaningless given their own definition of what constitutes little effect.
>>46875518
Change of the type of wars (small feuds of nobles to larger scale things due to the rise of nation-states), decline of the military aristocracy due to technology and lots of other things, decline of the feudal system (hence just taking the title to the land wasn't enough - the very nature of conquest now involved the common man too), technological innovation (easier to kill lots of people), increased military organization (hence larger, standing armies of military professionals). those are the things i could think of off the top of my head.
>>46875552
Anon's point that war in the middle ages didn't really affect the common man beyond crop yields or armies actually passing through your area is pretty true though. Also, the time required of military service of peasants was pretty small every year and would rarely be a large portion of the village population.
>>46875552
Except even the Saracens noted the form of limited warfare the Europeans engaged in during the Crusades. The most you really got in Europe was chevauchee, fire raids that would burn through crops but were more intended to lead to breaking the morale of the enemy through starvation than a direct slaughter of its people. Medieval warfare only lead to the kind of slaughter seen in other eras when two things were at play. 1, religion, and 2, resistance to the last in a siege.
The heightened number of civilian casualties in the Late Renaissance and Early Modern period compared to early eras is sharp and noticeable.
Warfare still sucked, but it sucked a whole lot more in later eras.
>>46875518
What this guy said: >>46875583
>>46875552
Even then local disputes didn't wind up with very high death counts. Usually the losing sides would run away with most of their soldiers left so they can fight again for another battle. Since the entire point of feudalism was that peasants paid taxes so that landowners would defend them if peasants ended up with massive casualty lists in most wars the entirety of feudalism would have broken down much faster since there would be no benefit for peasants to even pay taxes if the landowners don't defend them like they are sworn to do.
18 posts in and no "WE WUZ", well done /tg/.
>>46875481
That's a really good point. Movable type printing in the West caused a massive expansion of literacy in Europe as books became much cheaper.
That didn't really happen in the middle ages, however. The fall of Constantinople or the contact with the new world, depending on who you ask, marked the beginning of the Early Modern Period.
>>46875629
Race politics usually don't set /tg/ off unless they're too heavy handed, as it's not really something that comes up in tabletop groups that often.Women, however, strike a very sensitive nerve.
>>46873559
During the early Middle Ages literacy wouldn't be that common outside of churches/aristocracy. A good portion of books were written by monks and read by monks.
>>46875673
>>46875629
I have no idea why.
This shit's been exploding for a while on /tg/, you'd think people would chill the fuck out and stop being mouth-breathing retards. Closest we had was the -4 Str meme, occasionally the GM's Girlfriend being a valid cause for group disruption, and so on from way back, and that was as far as it went. Why the fuck is this kind of discussion all I seem to see on /tg/ now?
>>46875715
This
the Clergy was the most common source of literacy. Lots of stuff was written in Latin though.
>>46875717
Gamergate stoked a fire about women in nerd hobbies.
>>46875717
Culture wars are happening again so people are use it as an excuse to shitpost. Just ignore the two sides like I do, or sometimes use it as an opportunity to shitpost like I do.
>>46875717
I'm guessing it's the current political winds leaking over. Even though /pol/ is supposed to be containment board for all things political, there's bound to be leakage. Then, games will reflect reality as they always will, whether you intend it or not. Art imitates life, the saying goes.
>>46875481
That's not medieval anymore, matey. The Gutenberg bible was written in the 1450s.
>>46875743
What the fuck is Gamergate?
>>46875814
(You)
>>46875814
You lucky bastard.
>>46875739
Even during the high middle ages it wasn't uncommon for even clergy members to be illiterate.
In terms of those who were literate, it was limited to most of the nobility, high clergy, monks, and a few merchants. Outside of that though pretty much nobody. So realistically looking at <5% of the population as literate and most of that either centered in towns)
>>46875832
Nobody's samefagging, retard. Now answer the question.
>>46875840
What?
>>46875866
It's videogame politics, and it almost ripped this site in half. It's potentially one of the causes as to why moot left.
>>46875866
look it up. just some media controversy that's too pointless to explain besides tldr: 'gamers are evil sexists preventing women from being gamers'. hence some (imho well deserved) ill-will towards the feminists that bitched about it and perhaps a feeling of being the victim by a lot of 'nerds'.
>>46875866
It's incredibly shitty videogame politics where both sides are fucking stupid. Don't listen to >>46875900 because both sides have legitimate grievances but they've become so radicalized who the fuck can even remember what those grievances even still are.
>>46875891
>>46875900
OK, so, what does this have to do with /tg/? If it's a vidya thing, the /pol/ cucks can take it to /v/ and leave us alone.
God, this sounds so retarded.
>>46875853
WUZ
>>46875921
They want to fight against an imaginary feminist boogieman who they feel is invading all their hobbies, including traditional games.
>>46875891
>almost
it did. there's a lot more /pol/-esque shitposting on most boards since a few years back (/tg/ is pretty decent in this regard).
>>46875919
how did i post something biased? i just pointed out which side started it. i guess i failed to mention that the 'nerds' reacted in a pretty idiotic manner.
>>46875921
because /tg/ hobbies were included too, not just vidya.
>>46875900
As a person who wasn't there for GamerGate, but was pretty interested in the fallout of the whole story, let me sum it up shortly as I see it.
/v/ uncovers biased videogame journalism, and tries their best to get the journalist in question fired and change the "whole 8.8, it's okay - IGN", where reviews are bought with nepotism, money and sexual favors.
The journalist in question - a girl who literally slept with people so that the games get good reviews - uses feminism as a shield, calling /v/ mysoginistic bastards (which is kinda true) who are unjustly slandering her (which is absolutely not true). She involves her entire clique involved in media and journalism to defend herself and slander /v/.
This, in turn, gives unplanned traction to the online-feministic movement who are happy to get publicity, which in turn involves online-MRA movement, and then it kinda snowballs from there.
tl;dr the very real issue of shitty videogame journalism turned into a contest of ad hominem and a platform for promoting one's political views.
>>46875963
>>46875959
Well, fuck, how do we get rid of it?
Because I want my old /tg/ back.
>>46875921
Because people refuse to contain modern politics to /pol/ or /news/, and the mods can only do so much.
>>46875921
There has been general push for left wind ideologies (critical and gender theories, mostly) onto "nerdy" hobbies. Video games got the biggest load of it, in a massive push spearheaded by Anita Sharkesian's "Feminist Frequency" a "critical" channel that speaks about how games are terrible and sexist, but the motion quickly generated a lot of momentum on all fronts. Obviously, an equally as large counter momentum emerged, as A) vitriol leads to vitriol, and B) controversy makes money. The biggest and most "organized" movement against these left-wing ideologies was Gamergate, which started as a demand for more transparent practices in gaming journalism, and ended up as an army of angry idiots just sending everyone rape threats, discrediting the original idea, and eventually became the boogeyman representing all the evil sexist nerds for left wingers.
As for what it has to do with /tg/, /tg/ and /v/ share a lot of user base, and the whole left wing push was actually aimed at all nerdy hobbies and activities, not only video games. Plus, as it immediately proved itself to a guaranteed way to provoke strong reactions out of people, shitposters and cunts got a hold of it and immediately ran wild, trying that shit everywhere they could. Including /tg/, which proved itself to be pretty susceptible, because the issue was already existing here (tension between more "liberally" oriented and very "conservative" types of nerds existed here prior all of this).
>>46875987
By bringing this thread back on to its subject.
One thing that always pisses me off when it comes to talking about the Middle Ages is that everyone keeps parroting the "medieval people never bathed" misconception. The whole lack of bathing thing was really only at the tail end of the Middle Ages. Communal baths were a thing at some periods in the Middle Ages, and we know communal baths were used pretty often during those times because we have letters from prudes writing about how pissed off they are that men can see each other's willies.
>>46875959
and the evil gamer boogieman isn't imaginary? be serious here, both sides are looking for something that isn't there to vent their political angst.
>>46875980
this.
>>46875987
the old 4chan will never be back until the real life culture war ends. as >>46875776 mentions, both /pol/ and anti-/pol/ have contaminated this site.
good thing is, /tg/ is probably one of the least affected boards, and this whole gamergate thing has blown past.
>>46875987
Old /tg/ is dead and gone. /tg/ is little more than an extension of /pol/. Getting rid of /pol/ would leave the board pretty close to empty.
>>46875987
/pol/ will go away when the SJWs that have infested /tg/ go away.
>>46876043
Better have an empty, but on-topic board, than off-topic board full of shitty people.
InfinityChan successfuly created containment boards for /pol/ and heavily moderates their /tg/ (admittedly, I wasn't there for a long time, so maybe something changed), why can't we do that?
>>46875987
You can't, most people first board is now /v/ or /pol/ where complaining about people who want to destroy the white race/SJW/jew etc... is ok. So they think all of 4chan is like that and when they go on other board to shitpost with that and somebody tell them to fuck off they think it's the "ennemy" because they can't understand that people just want to discuss a subject without having to deal with "we wuz king" and "muh SJW ruining muh hobby" shitposting in every fucking thread and that it has nothing to do with their political view.
>>46875629
It's way less silly and blatant in a stage production than a film, you have to admit.
>>46874612
From what I have read, this isn't quite true. People commonly went on day and overnight trips to neighboring villages to see friends and family, as well as to larger villages or towns for regular market days. There's also a fair bit of travel in pilgrimage, which was a common activity for all social classes. The poor or those bound to the land may go on trips to local churches or relics, and the wealthier go on longer trips to big centers of pilgrimage which functioned like modern tourist destinations, including overpriced tourist traps and cheap souvenirs. That's not to say that literacy was required because of this travel. Most stores, as mentioned, had signs indicating what services they offered, barkers to advertise, or were located in one particular area of town so you know where to find them all. Maps weren't a big deal and weren't particularly intended to be accurate or give accurate directions, so verbal instructions and directions were necessary.
A peasant may, however, be literate enough to recognize and sign his own name for legal purposes, so they can better figure out ledgers and records kept on the Manor.
Anyone who wants a good, solid, pop history introduction to life in the later medieval period should read a book called "The Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England." It covers all of this stuff, at least surrounding the 14th century. Obviously all this changes over time, and a high medieval village is not like a migration era village which is not like a late medieval village.
>>46876043
>/tg/ is little more than an extension of /pol/
this is a pretty ridiculous exaggeration.
>>46876061
no, /pol/ just won't have anything to bitch about.
>>46876072
see >>46876023 and >>46876080 ;
at this point, the board culture has simply changed. you can't start a discussion without idiots spamming memes from those boards, and you can't tell them to leave without becoming their boogieman.
>>46876072
>Better have an empty, but on-topic board, than off-topic board full of shitty people.
Not from the business perspective. Traffic brings money, remember? Also, given just how far the hysteria goes, any bigger movement to change things, moderate harder etc. will result in MASSIVE outcry of shitheads taking this as a personal crusade, and dealing with all the fucking doxing and spamming and shit isn't fun for anyone.
So the mods are leaving as it is. /v/ is essentially completely unmoderated, /tg/ only lightly, because as it turns out, that is the best way to increase traffic in the long run.
>>46876061
No, fuck that, go back to /pol/ or whatever, just leave my 40k and D&D talk alone. If they want to make it all about the patriarchy or misogyny or whatever, then we'll tell 'em to fuck off too, but goddamn.
There was a high level of literacy among the Norse, but I do not know if it carried on through the high medieval period
>>46875930
EMPRAHS AND SHIT
>>46876038
>and the evil gamer boogieman isn't imaginary?
Never said it wasn't. My statement was just about how there are people here lashing out against perceived threats that aren't real.
There are popular "SJW" tabletop games like Apocalypse world, an explicitly queer post-apoc roleplay game that has all the buzzwords you want to throw at it, but for all its popularity it does jack shit to prevent the existence of and popularity of Kingdom Death. Which, for all it's "Boutique Nightmare Horror" is filled with so much actual (male empowerment and scantily clad females/female abuse) fetish content that when you finally do get to the horror, 90% of it /d/ will say been there done that to because it's still more fetish than horror.
Also see >>46876061 . literally fucking lol at the idea of there being SJWs on /tg/
>>46876144
>>46876144
>literally fucking lol at the idea of there being SJWs on /tg/
I've ran into plenty of people push agenda's here, but the obvious problem is Poe's Law. As is with the entire movement and it's impact here on 4chan.
>>46875987
Even before the whole gamergate shit, /tg/ held up Anders Breivik as the modern day version of a LG paladin. /tg/ hasn't changed in that regard.
> "people on MY IMAGEBOARD don't WANT me to say NIGGER"
INFILTRATORS
>>46876144
>literally fucking lol at the idea of there being SJWs on /tg/
>implying there isn't
>>46876167
> /tg/ held up Anders Breivik as the modern day version of a LG paladin.
> implying he isn't
>>46873559
CAESARED.COM
"Poor little Gaul Boy 43"
>>46876144
>Kingdom Death
>empowerment
?
>>46876144
>prevent the existence of
do people actually care so much about other people's hobbies? if you don't like a game just don't talk about it or play it.
>>46876179
is this from a DnD book?
>thread starts with a legitimate question and kind of baity image
>first posts are all constructive, trying to answer the question
>someone comes in and says "GOOD THING THERE'S NO SHITPOSTING IN THIS THREAD"
>suddenly everyone is only arguing about bullshit that isn't /tg/ and ignoring the question
If you actually want a thread to stay good, don't post about how surprised you are it's good. Keep posting good content.
>>46876203
its definitely /tg/ to talk about /tg/. also
> arguing
where?
>>46876179
No. It's like jihadist groups all accusing each other of being mutazilites (a branch of Islam that emphasizes reason) in an attempt to discredit their rivals and get all the recruits. In reality, none of them are mutazilites, and there very idea that any of them might be is patently ridiculous. It's just a label that they throw around in arguments when someone disagrees with them on anything, the equivalent of calling someone a double nigger.
>>46876195
>is this from a DnD book?
5e Player's Handbook
>>46876229
That's actually a pretty good analogy.
>>46876179
Corellon being hermaphrodite is a thing since at least 2e.
>>46876179
>Hermaphroditic gods are a SJW idea
Kill yourself and hope you are reborn in 1950
This is why politics is a forbidden subject at my gaming table. Anyone that keeps bringing it up is permanently expelled from the group. If a person lacks the willpower and self discipline to restrain himself from doing so, he is typically a shitty player anyway.
>>46876317
Every fucking thread these days has to involve someone running in and shouting as loudly as possible so everyone in the room knows exactly what their political views are.
>>46876317
What if players discuss politicsin character
>>46876278
>>46876300
i'm pretty sure he's referring to the wording. granted having the choice of your sexual orientation isn't anything new, but its mostly been something that's up to the group to decide on, the way its phrased somewhat implies that the GM has to make gender or sexual discrimination not a part of the game.
>>46876278
>>46876300
Yeah, Corellon was what bothered me most about that snippet...
>>46876192
Empowerment is probably a bad word, but I remember seeing a few models from Kingdom Death that were literally bored men sitting on women in bondage being used as furniture.
I haven't really seen much of KD beyond the really early models that predated the release of the game, so maybe it's gotten better. Not reserving any hope though.
>>46876195
>do people actually care so much about other people's hobbies?
Less that, and more the /pol/ mindset being that somehow the existence of SJW-types in the tabletop community suddenly means they're all actively campaigning in unison to destroy traditional roleplay and replace it with mandatory genderfluidity for all characters or something, even though quite clearly traditional tabletop and traditional tabletop perversions aren't going anywhere (and in the case of KD, are even wildly successful).
>>46875980
>/v/ uncovers biased videogame journalism
I didn't know /v/ was responsible for that guys angsty blog about his ex.
>>46876331
If it's part of the game it's an obvious exception. Although, if they project their own political views in character, like they brought a fucking soapbox wih them, then they get their opinionated ass thrown out.
Learning to shut the fuck up about your political views at every social occasion is part of being an adult. It's also surprisingly easy to do. If you can't do this then I wont view you as an adult and I want nothing to do with you.
>>46876370
that's not men's empowerment, that's someone's fetish fuel.
>actively campaigning
to be fair, its reasonable to be scared that your hobby (or more realistically, the publishers of the books and such) get regulated for this sort of silly shit. but unless there's been a change in the proportion of 'sjw games', i agree - /tg/ isn't going anywhere.
>>46876167
That was just a meme. The difference is now we have Stormfront migrants or people indoctrinated by Stormfront memes, who only know how to relentlessly shitpost about SJWs, which they believe is anyone who isn't a white supremacist.
If they weren't so relentlessly dull and easily triggered, it wouldn't be a problem, but they literally can't help themselves from turning everything into their personal fucking politics blog.
Maybe if SJWs were going around and doing the same thing it would be different, but you just don't see genderqueer otherkins dumping their blogs onto 4chan in the same volume that the Stormers do.
>>46876476
Actually, I wonder if it's a slow backlash from the stream of ill considered left-leaning nonsense the furries used to post.
Nearly ten years ago now, but even as a commie woman-loving cuck I found that shit intolerable.
>>46874551
I wrote this. I did. I warned you all. And here you are, arguing about SJWs, immigrants, Nazis, and all that good shit. Didn't I warn you all?
>>46876448
I think people are still kinda getting what is the big deal wrong. It has never been about the individual instances. It's like when /v/ threw a hissyfit about that one transgender character in the new Baldur's Gate expansion:
It's not about that one character, or that one "SJW" tabletop. It's about the fact that more and more companies openly endorse what is a political and social ideology: a strong stance about how world is and how it should be.
There is a massive amount of shitheads that blow the whole thing out of proportion. There is a massive amount of shitheads that do it because they simply enjoy the conflict and think they are "master trolls". There is no doubt about it.
BUT the root of the problem, and the general uneasiness surrounding it is not entirely unjustified. I actually do believe this is something that should be talked about, and something that people should be weary about. As much as a cheap shot comparison it will be: it's not that far from seeing anti-semitism being displayed and endorsed in media, games, table tops. Sure, that one character or few lines in rulebook about how jews are trying to take over the world is not going to spoil the whole medium for you: but it's still something that should not be just waved your hand about.
I actually think this shit should be discussed. I just wish it could be done in a reasonable manner. It's the level and format of the debate, and the actual (lack of) erudition on the subject that is the problem, not the subject matter itself.
>>46876584
/tg/ had problems with politics before /pol/ became a mainstream board. I remember that we used to have the daily debate regarding if rape was amoral or not for at least a year.
>>46876607
Fair enough, i agree it should be talked about (though yeah, between trolls and crybabies/ragers on both sides, thats never going to happen in a reasonable fashion). and yes, its not unjustified to be worried that your hobby will have to change for the worse due to external forces, and that the quality of games will suffer.
>>46876611
That sort of stuff is on any board really, and its not a big deal - conversations are bound to become tangential and rape shows up in tabletops. The issue is when people spam memes from /pol/ instead of making any coherent point. That sort of behavior, scapegoating and various other types of flaming are the issue, as far as keeping /tg/ a decent place goes, imho. and i'm pretty sure its not just me who's noticed a lot more shitposting about politics instead of simple arguments, in the last few years.
>>46874551
Oh neat, a racebaiting thread!
*dangles some Mexican on a hook*
Am I doing it right
>>46876691
/pol/ memeposters are pretty much always shitposters. They just want to waste other peoples time for fun. Politics doesn't factor in to it a whole lot. They are just here to annoy you.
>>46875629
>18 posts in and no "WE WUZ", well done /tg/.
So then you have to go ruin a good thing and mention it. Well done.
>>46876607
But gay people are just people, women do deserve some respect and trans people aren't carnivorous mutants. Anti-Semitism is by and large delusional.
>>46876611
You know that noise that Sideshow Bob makes when he treads on the rake?
We used to have some stupid fucking threads.
>>46873992
I'm glad we've moved beyond that in our literate modern era.
>>46876819
>But gay people are just people, women do deserve some respect and trans people aren't carnivorous mutants.
Which really does not have anything to do with the ideology, despite them trying to claim otherwise. The theory of conflict, on which the entire left-wing "progressive" ideology is destructive, devastating even. Assuming that gender identities are products of conflicts of power is frankly no less sick than claiming that there are race-based conflicts of power. It's equally as delusional.
>>46876819
>>46876819
The strawman is strong in this post. This has to be b8
Ya'll more than a little upset, but it's still pretty civil and intelligent in here. You make me proud, /tg/.
>>46876733
they flock to politically related threads. but yeah we always had arguments. i just hate how these days, /pol/memes are thrown about as if they are arguments, and people are all to quick to label someone a /pol/tard or sjw.
other than that i think this board is pretty decent.
>>46876607
I think that people are also angry about the Baldurs Gate thing because muh childhood rape.
>>46876819
People are assholes and so are you. Very few people are constantly earnest and kind towards everyone because they enjoy it. It's part of the human experience.
>>46876691
>and yes, its not unjustified to be worried that your hobby will have to change for the worse due to external forces, and that the quality of games will suffer.
To be honest, the whole thing really does pose a rather large dilemma for me. On one hand, I actually really like discussing this subject matter. I genuinely feel like it should be discussed, and I had taken academic interest in it for many years - I'm pretty much filled with things to say about it. On the other hand, just the mere act of opening the subject matter, and risking the thread will be completely derailed and fucked over by irresponsible posters somewhat worries me. To this day, I don't know how should I act about these subjects being brought up. The teacher in me really tells me that it should be talked about. The /tg/-ist in me warns me from it.
>>46876921
/tg/ has have worse periods, that's one thing that's sure. My problem with neo /tg/ is the lack of OC. It's like we are suffering creative bankruptcy and people are discouraged from thinking outside the box just in case it makes you a special snowflake.
>>46876922
>I think that people are also angry about the Baldurs Gate thing because muh childhood rape.
Nah. Really, I played the god damn thing. Those two lines are a joke and change absolutely nothing about the game - it would be more of an argument if the writing was otherwise good, but as it's mediocre all the way through, this one clumsily written character can't even be condemned on the basis of "bad writing".
What really gets people up in arms about it is frankly (for the most of them, I guess) just vague sense of threat. Of course, as mentioned, there are plenty of people who actively LOOK for things to get outraged about, and those are idiots.
But then there is plenty of people who just react negatively and they don't really know why. They feel threatened.
And they are not entirely wrong to feel that way too. Though they are generally speaking wrong about the ways they vent that sense of threat and frustration.
>>46876023
God dam, I consider myself somewhat left winged (I want everyone to be equal, in the form of woman's rights and men's rights being the same, like a woman killing someone and getting the same years and punishment like a man), but this shit has gone too far.
>>46876955
I'm sure the writing is terrible. What I'm saying is that I think most people probably didn't even play it, but they still wanna bitch about it.
>>46876966
That's hardly exclusive to the left wing. In fact, the diversity quotas and affirmative action the left champions are moving us further from legal equality.
>>46876931
I know your exact feeling all too well anon. My hopes are up a bit though, seeing how nice this thread is so far.
>>46876969
I think as >>46876955 mentioned, this whole culture war going on has made people pretty sensitive to jumping to conclusions about things. they remember BG fondly, and dont want it contaminated. its of course idiotic to make these assumptions, but its not idiotic to have concerns about the state of your hobby and the very real threats to the freedom of said hobby.
>>46876945
> lack of OC
if you think there was more OC 5 years ago, you'd be wrong. we just remember all the OC and forget how infrequent it was.
>>46876966
I'm left leaning on the basis that I don't want companies to get too much power and have them replace goverments as the ruling authority. Idealy I want companies and goverments to be in a equlibrium and cancel eachothers dominance out,
>>46876848
why change something that works?
>>46877029
Do you have a blog somewhere I can subscribe to?
>>46877000
After thinking about it for a bit, you're right about your observation. Personally, I don't care for politics, I just want everyone to stop whining about ever perceived threat, white guilt (it's actually starting to piss me off), and feminists man hating.
>>46877010
I remember that /tg/ chased drawfags off the board for some retarded reason. I also rememberd that around the same time the nazi janitor deleted all the brainstorming thread that was not based around a comercial /tg/ product. After that dose of "no fun allowed" a lot of the creative people went elsewhere.
>>46876966
>but this shit has gone too far.
It's what happens when ideology and activism meets business. One of the things that always horrified me the most is the sheer amount of cynicism that is behind this current "political controversy". Anita Sharkesian, for an example, is a completely subpar academician with theoretical framework that is literally twenty years out of date: she is wrong even by the measures of her own field and colleagues.
But... as stated, controversy generates money. And the press and journalism taking her side was largely the same problem: every single article about how nerd culture needs to be purged turned into a clickbait par excellence.
The mixture of genuine political activism (naive one, but genuine) with absolute business cynicism is really rather terrifying.
>>46877065
>>46877029
>>46877000
>>46876966
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
>>46877048
No, blogs are for faggots.
>>46876955
>Those two lines are a joke
Not according to the writer who threw a bitchfit as well. The reason why you took it as a joke is because the writer is so painfully bad that her material becomes absurd. She writes those corny romance novels for fucks sake.
This whole thing is just so painfully transparent. Shitty writers make shitty stories and slap a thin coat of identity politics on it so they can deflect criticism as sexist/racist/whatever. Shit, it goes back to Dragon Age
>>46877067
>I remember that /tg/ chased drawfags off the board for some retarded reason. I also rememberd that around the same time the nazi janitor deleted all the brainstorming thread that was not based around a comercial /tg/ product. After
This reminds me (and sorry for being so off topic but I really needed to ask this):
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LAST WRITEFAG THREAD?
They usually last around a week, even more, but the last one disappeared after about three days and I had not found it in archives? Have the mods decided to purge it or what?
>>46877094
Nah, I think bad writers in /tg/ related material was always a problem. Just look at Black Library.
>>46873559
What signs would your average peasant need to read?
>>46875629
It's a Theatre convention to allow Negroids to play roles of their choice. It's quite customary.
>>46877094
>Not according to the writer who threw a bitchfit as well.
Sorry, I had not made myself clear there: I did not think it was a intended to be a joke, I meant it as that the whole dialogue is laughable and irrelevant. That it's "not a big deal" to be more precise.
It's just sort of a token political acknowledgement. "things you say so that there is no doubt that you are on the morally right side of things". And let me tell you: in games, traditional or video ones, it's still nothing. The real trouble I encounter on almost daily basis is that you find these tokens of allegiance in fucking academic texts, even when they actually contradict the thesis of the article. And that is when you realize that this issue really goes way out of gaming or hobbies.
>>46877144
>"Hunting at the King's lands is punishable by death, peasant scum!"
VENI
>>46877067
>deleted all the brainstorming thread
yeah i remember that. also drawfags 'weren't /tg/' or something iirc.
>>46877076
this.
>>46877152
what is a big deal, is the threat of a media shitstorm if you don't add those acknowledgements. but yeah that line had no impact on the expansion at all.
>>46875921
Because nerds are hella gay and have zero play
>>46877152
Dialouges in videogames are almost always terrible. The last time I remember good and natural exposition dialouge in a fantasy videogame was in Demon's Souls, a game with a silent protagonist, and that was like 5 years ago.
>>46877104
i haven't seen one for a while. i really doubt the mods have any issues with them though.
Not super common, but more common than it is in fiction set in the era.
>>46875980
>The journalist in question - a girl who literally slept with people so that the games get good reviews
Provide source.
Oh wait, you can't because that review doesn't exist. You also confirmed yourself to be a Secondary who could not even be arsed to read the Zoepost before he threw his lot in with a bunch of assholes.
>>46877106
Of course. Only when someone criticizes BL for the shitty stories and characters it's no big deal. When someone criticized this woman for the exact same thing it's suddenly a huge controversy and we're all sexists who want to kill trans people.
>I meant it as that the whole dialogue is laughable and irrelevant. That it's "not a big deal" to be more precise.
>It's just sort of a token political acknowledgement.
Oh I fully agree but I do get why people are upset. Baldurs gate and games like it are a niche thing and the people who play them certainly don't do it so some hack writer can satisfy their need for virtue signaling in such a shallow, in-your-face way.
If they had simply added more depth to it it would have been fine. Let's say you have to actually persuade the tranny to tell you about the problem and then maybe you could have some side quest where you fetch that sex change belt or something. Also, add a negative response, this is an RPG after all. I mean, nobody is asking the writers to be Shakespear but at least put some effort into it.
>>46873559
Politics aside, I'd recommend this book to anybody who is curious about day to day medieval life. It's pretty interesting and clears up many of the historical misconceptions perpetuated by RPGs and fa/tg/uys.
>>46877193
lel
Just kill yourself faggot.
>>46876179
Makes sense for a dirty elf god.
Also why are people mad about this as it sounds like a not evil slanessh.
>>46877210
Thanks mate.
Also, Medieval Lives is pretty good:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3YDN5gTX0
>>46877176
>is the threat of a media shitstorm if you don't add those acknowledgements
I'm not really sure if there really is one. I doubt that anyone would care or get mad if Dragonspear did not include the token transgender character - or if any of the many articles about kinship just skipped the token "but kinship and gender are actually just social constructs and not real and we all have to acknowledge that everyone has the right to identify themselves as whatever they want" mantra (and seriously, it is a fucking mantra by this point, it's like saying "Namu Amida Butsu"). It feels like this thing is really self-imposed more than anything.
The shitstorm rises when it's included and then some equal shithead starts making a controversy out of it. Somebody starts writing rape threats, somebody else starts screaming GAMERGATE! and things just snowball.
TB has said this very, very well: All of these people are idiots because they enter the discussion with ZERO GOOD WILL to begin with. And all these people should be fired because they waste the time and power they have to adress other people on idiots arguing with idiots, instead of brining up genuine works of merit, genuinely good products that without attention will go unappreciated.
>>46877185
Video game writing has a lot of issues, though it's not that terrible. There are good pieces. And writing dialogues is GENERALLY a problematic thing. It's quite interesting if you look at many of the most praised literary works and examine the dialogues (in say, Foucault's Pendulum) - they are actually weird and sound nothing like real people talking.
>>46877190
Last one emerged last weeks Tuesday, as they always do. I checked on it on Sunday, when it had about 100 posts or less, then on Monday it was gone: no archive what so ever.
I'm seriously worried that some mod purged it because it was, technically speaking, off topic.
>>46877193
> throwing a hissyfit about how anon didn't state what happened 2 years ago exactly correctly
he summarized it well enough in terms of its relevancy to this board today.
>>46877270
Wouldn't be surprised, some of the mods seem to take their jobs a bit to seriously. However, I will admit that it was funny with seeing the mods constantly deleting yesterday's thinly disguised (ok, maybe it wasn't disguised at all) loli-thread's. That bastard wouldn't give up.
>>46877338
>Wouldn't be surprised, some of the mods seem to take their jobs a bit to seriously.
If that is really the case, that would be depressing as fuck. Writefag threads actually gave lot of people will and courage to write (myself included) and there were some really good debates there - I know at least one case where criticisms provided there got a originally rejected story re-writen and eventually published.
You can't have threads like that on /lit/ where everybody is a smug asshole and a eager as fuck to prove his superior taste by dismissing everything as shit, and I don't really know where else could debates like that be had.
>>46877270
I can't find it on the archive either....
>or if any of the many articles about kinship just skipped
if any character who wasn't obviously evil went against said mantra, i'm pretty sure someone would get upset.
>>46877387
To be fair if you really cared about improving your writing you'd post it on /lit/ in the same way you wouldn't as /tg/ for bike advice, you'd ask /n/. Each board has their concentration of ultra dedicated experts that can be super helpful once you wade through the shitposting.
>>46877407
>i'm pretty sure someone would get upset.
Well, I'm planning to test that hypothesis in a few years, provided everything goes well.
But really - no. I actually know a few authors that already did that and got away easily. (Strangely enough, all of them have ties to Canada, and all of them are predominantly preoccupied with religion, though none of them is an actual believer).
I would like to see one day what would happen if one went and started systematically criticizing critical theory (that sounds weird) or similar left-wing ideologies in person, on grounds of american universities (humanities or social studies departments).
I've heard horror stories about the shit they teach there, but no stories about what happens when somebody actually starts arguing against it.
>>46877326
>he summarized it well enough in terms of its relevancy to this board today.
The poster didn't even get the gender of the journalist who didn't write a review of Zoe's product right and he probably also mixed up the Zoepost with any of the other numerous cases of corruption in the industry.
>>46877440
>To be fair if you really cared about improving your writing you'd post it on /lit/
Posting on /lit/ for any reason is a wasted exercise.
>>46877444
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3350471/Yale-teacher-resigns-offensive-Halloween-costume-email.html
>>46877456
Don't get your panties in a bunch just because you don't like another board's culture. /lit/ has the largest concentration of people who read a shitload of books just like /an/ has the largest concentration of biologists.
>>46877440
Anon numbered >>46877456 is right. It's a waste of time and energy.
>>46877444
if you critisized something like that, you'd not only never get funding, but you'd also stir up a shitstorm of angry students. good thing i don't work in social studies, sounds like a shitty academic environment.
>got away easily
i mean, its mostly chance that somebody will use you as a scapegoat for their political agenda.
good luck with your project m8.
>>46877193
>a Secondary who could not even be arsed to read the Zoepost
Sure, I agree that I am one.
> before he threw his lot in with a bunch of assholes.
Uh, no. I'm just stating my vision of what happened, seeing as I didn't participate in the movement (and honestly, feel pretty indifferent to the entire thing, seeing as I live in a third-world shithole where excessive PC isn't a problem).
If you can contribute and correct me, feel free to do so.
>>46877440
>To be fair if you really cared about improving your writing you'd post it on /lit/
Nope. Look, I'm a massive literally snob, I teach literature on Uni among others, but even I don't venture to that place. /lit/ knows about literature about as much as /v/ knows about gaming: that is surprisingly little. Much like on /v/, /lit/ uses it's subject matter mainly to define their self-worth and superiority. I had never seen anyone being helpful on /lit/ - and I've spend a LOT of time there. It was originally my main board, given that books matter to me much more than traditional games or video games or anything else, really.
Then I've figured there is not much point hanging around there. Unless something has changed drastically over the past three years, it's the last place I'd ever post my own writings for scrutiny. It's like going to /v/ and asking them to tell you what they think of your new game.
>>46875717
Because this shit is being pushed more aggressively than ever. Except people are more aware of it, and they're getting more than annoyed: They're getting PISSED.
>>46877484
I will point out that the Daily Mail is not exactly an unbiased source - it's definitely the Fox of british newspapers, and one of the costumes defended in the article (by name) is blackface.
I suppose blackface could be done well, but you can see why Yale might want to say "no, y'all can't do that here"
>>46877502
>but you'd also stir up a shitstorm of angry students.
I would very much enjoy doing that. Pissing people off means that you got their attention and interest. I went primarily into social studies EXACTLY because it's such a shitty environment: that means there is a lot work that needs to be done within it, and that shit ain't gonna do itself.
>i mean, its mostly chance that somebody will use you as a scapegoat for their political agenda.
That is a risk and responsibility that comes with academic endeavor from the beginning. More evil has been done by people trying to avoid saying things that can be misused in political agencies than there has been done by political agencies themselves in the past fifty years.
>>46877511
i'm still pretty sure that the board with the most number of expert posters on a given topic is the board for the topic. its the proportion of expert posters which may be rather low. for example I do physics for a living, but still find more people who actually know about science on /sci/ than any other board. sure you might only find them in 1 or 2 threads on a given day - the rest of the threads are circlejerks of undergrads or highschoolers, but still its the best place to find them. i know jack shit about literature but i doubt its much different.
>>46877552
>i'm still pretty sure that the board with the most number of expert posters on a given topic is the board for the topic.
The problem is: when you have starting writers, they don't need expertise nearly as much as they need encouragement and audience. A starting writer - or an amateur writer - is not going to be very good. That is given, no way around it. Writing is a craft, and needs practice.
But that is it: not analysis, but practice. You need to write more to get better, and you'll only write more if you are in a welcoming environment, not one saturated by snobs who read mostly to prove others that they are smarter than that.
Yeah, the statistical chance of running into someone with erudition is higher. But that does not mean it makes for a good environment for feedback, especially for amateur or starting authors.
>>46877326
Well he failed to mention that we'd been having shitstorms about Depression Quest and Feminist Frequency, and giving Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkesian victim bucks as a result, for years before the Zoe Post made it a social justice movement.
Honestly I don't even know if you people are just trying to keep board kayfabe or actually believe that that failed attempt at an epic 4chan prank is worth arguing for. GamerGate ruined us, made those two stars, and is the cause of all this /pol/ shitposting.
>all these stupid redditor niggers on /tg/
I don't get why /tg/ attracts so many fucking autists. I'm sure a lot of you are actually social justice advocates.
>>46876133
Caesar wasn´t emperor though
>>46877596
I'm very good friends with a gay person and hate an Indian person. What are you going to do now, nigger?
>>46877549
> all female gamers are the problem
when i go to my next session i'm going to lecture them on the boundaries they've crossed. thanks anon!
>>46877580
fair enough, makes sense.
>>46877625
Being friends with a fag isn't pro social justice
>>46877580
You really shouldn't need encouragement to do anything. You either enjoy writing for the fun of it, you don't enjoy writing but you like to share things you made, or you have some deep seated insecurity that keeps you from enjoying writing. Even with the shittiest snobs there's often a kernel of truth, and that one kernel of truth is much more useful than constant praise.
>>46877444
>I would like to see one day what would happen if one went and started systematically criticizing critical theory (that sounds weird) or similar left-wing ideologies in person, on grounds of american universities
Wikipedia remarks that other leftists have been ripping into critical theory for decades already. Right in the third paragraph.
So really, the worst that would happen would be that some undergrads who feel that they just dicovered the greatest shit ever would get mad at you.
Your peers would be mad at you.
Imagine the horrors.
Oh, and your professor would be like: "Every fucking semester... every single fucking semester those fuckers can't sit still until we cover just that topic in just this course."
>>46877484
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3350471/Yale-teacher-resigns-offensive-Halloween-costume-email.html
That is fucking terrifying. Jesus.
>>46877528
While you are entirely right, but if you do a bit of research, you'll find that the story does check out. They really did drive two people out because they dared to say that people wearing politically incorrect costumes should not be punished for doing so.
>>46877193
>Oh wait, you can't because that review doesn't exist.
He's wrong when he said reviews. It wasn't a review, it was 3 promotional articles which were deleted once the controversy started.
You're right in that they were not technically reviews. They did not critically examine or rate the game. If you're going to be pedantic over his choice of words you could at least be honest about why you don't want him to use it.
>>46877210
seconded
>>46877655
>You really shouldn't need encouragement to do anything.
What if someone is just starting out and needs guidance? Not a very good time to shit all over them
>>46877662
>Wikipedia remarks that other leftists have been ripping into critical theory for decades already. Right in the third paragraph.
Eh, yeah I've read a few articles from ex-critical theoreticist that weren't exactly favorable, but still the main bulk of the theory runs pretty much unscathed.
One warning too:
DO NOT, EVER, trust ANY ENGLISH WIKI articles on social studies thematics. And I am quite serious about this. They are a battleground, with each article being rewriten several times a month, and most of them with some rather INSANE left-wing bias. To a point where last time I checked the article on Political correctness, they DENIED that something like that ever existed, and claimed that Political Correctness is a fake straw man concept invented by reactionaries to mock and undermine natural social progress. And I am not shitting you here.
>>46877704
No board is full of universal shitters except for maybe /b/ and /trash/. I've been on /lit/ and seen some awful posters, but I've also seen plenty of helpful people too.
>>46877655
>You really shouldn't need encouragement to do anything.
That is hilarious and painfully naive. People need encouragement. It's one of our most basic social regulators, there is nothing pathological about it. Writing when you know somebody will read it, and when you know that person is not going to laugh at you about how stupid it is is much easier than writing works that you pretty much know nobody will read.
And no, that kernel of truth does not matter AT ALL if you won't write any more. This is idealistic and naive bullshit of a person who does not know shit about human mind.
>Middle ages
>Business
Dude, less than 5% of the population in medieval Europe ever left their village. Hell, depending on when and where you count, coins weren't even a big thing for most of it. You worked the fields, hung out with the same 100 people (if you were lucky to even know that many), married the decent looking girl at the next farm over, and died in the same bed you'd been born in.
Commerce as we tend to think of it wasn't a thing until centuries later for the common man. The RPG depiction of taverns, ye olde blacksmith and the like is a thoroughly inaccurate depiction of how shit generally worked unless you happened to live in a big city, and in that case you most certainly weren't a peasant.
>>46877507
Not that anon, but I believe his reaction is due to the fact supporters of GamerGate typically lie about how it started.
What actually happened is a girl who makes video-games shacked up with a dude who reviews video-games for a little while. She ended the relationship and he got pissed and posted an article about how she was sleeping 'with reviewers' (just him) so they would give her 'better reviews' (he never reviewed anything she worked on), and that this was 'a systemic problem in the industry' (no sources or examples provided).
Some guy trashed a girl who broke up with him and thousands of people saw his post and went 'oh wow, this must be a serious problem!' or, alternatively, 'fuck bitches!' and the movement was born. There's been functionally 0 evidence that the sexual favors thing has ever occurred.
The big problem people have is that GamerGate spent the first 6 months of its existence trashing a girl for ending a shitty relationship. Any valid claims they do have about poor standards in journalism are tarnished by the initial round of bullshit witch hunting.
>>46877728
I make all sorts of things without caring if somebody sees them. Sometimes I'll put something out, but only to ask for criticism. I do this because I fundamentally enjoy the process and can do it until the end of time. Encouragement is not universally needed.
>>46877748
It got traction because what started as moderately amusing gossip suddenly escalated into shitting on gamers everywhere and censoring policies.
>>46877270
>Video game writing has a lot of issues, though it's not that terrible. There are good pieces. And writing dialogues is GENERALLY a problematic thing. It's quite interesting if you look at many of the most praised literary works and examine the dialogues (in say, Foucault's Pendulum) - they are actually weird and sound nothing like real people talking.
I mostly thought the dialouge was good in Demon's Souls because all the characters mostly talks about who they are and what they have gone through without going into too much detail. Most importantly; the dialouge is not long winded, you get a good sense of who the character is, what they care about, how they look back on their old life and their outlook on a world that no longer seems to have a future. The dialouge also doesn't interrupt the game, so it respects its medium. Most games these days are bad at telling a story because they can't into "show, don't tell".
However, on the other hand the Baldur's Gate's narrative is closer to a visual novel than a cinematic game. So there is no excuse for poor writing if you are held to the same standards as novels in the manner of how you deliver exposition. It's actually even easier to work with the written dialouge because text is not expensive and time consuming to revision, unlike voice recordings.
>>46877748
Once again RationalWiki provides the best answer.
>The movement's advocates, known as "Gamergaters" or "Gators", claim that the movement is a "consumer revolt" against unethical practices in video game journalism, a talking point they came up with to deflect accusations that they were simply attacking Quinn. They also claim that they advocate for "freedom of speech", but only because multiple websites banned Gamergaters for mounting witch hunts against Quinn and others. Gamergate has become a crank magnet for conservative and reactionary pundits who have tagged along in order to attack feminists and "SJWs" (by which they mean "people who aren't reactionaries"); the hate group has since evolved into an amorphous and leaderless mob (although some big names pop up now and again) that spends most of its time being embroiled in misogyny, anti-feminism, racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia, and the culture war against "social justice warriors" in the gaming world. Some Gamergaters have attempted to handwave this away by suggesting that these reactionary voices are nothing more than third party trolls, but toxic trolling is what Gamergate was always about.
>>46877731
>Dude, less than 5% of the population in medieval Europe ever left their village.
No. The actual figure is less than 1% of people during the middle age did not leave their village at some point in their lives. While the range they travelled was usually less than 70 miles, they did travel.
Where people even come up with this stuff anyways?
For crap's sake read a book instead of relying on cartoons or whatever it is you learned about the middle ages. I recommend Medieval Travellers if you're interested in the subject.
>>46877777
you mean to tell me GRRM isn't a reliable source for medieval daily life????? ive been bamboozled!
>>46877763
That's true - I left out all the reactionary bullshit from opponents of GamerGate that just made the whole thing worse and helped solidify it rather than letting it fade away.
>Could've had a thread about education among peasants
>Now we're unironically posting rationalwiki links about gamergate because OP chose to post that image
>>46877775
It's the opposite answer, certainly.
>>46877799
what you gonna do about it, you whiny moron?
this is the /tg/ you chose, and actively choose to remain on- good thing i only come here once in a blue moon or i'd be really annoyed
>>46877775
>>46877748
It's weird to see how the anti-gamergate community has become so detached from reality while trying to follow the official narrative. Pretty much everything they say about their enemies can be attributed to themselves.
And citing rationalwiki as a source to anything? Seriously? Was encyclopedia dramatica down at the moment?
>>46877799
>>46877809
>>46877828
>No refutations, just buttmad "No, you're wrong!" responses
Looks like I struck a nerve!
>>46877596
Autists has a brain that's geared towards following a specific system. Can you guess how that relates to traditional games?
I also don't think that misguided empathy is something that the SJW own. When I think of SJW's I think of political activism, bullying other people into following their neo-neo-fascist revisionist agenda and also the pecking order manifesting in full swing.
>>46877824
Technically the older members of /tg/ never asked for all these identity politics to infest the board.
>>46877748
It wasn't just any girl either, it was someone we'd been salty about for ages because she tried to get a depression blog through Steam Greenlight.
So question for the folks who know their stuff about medieval villages and whatnot:
When it comes to the smaller villages, how was peacekeeping/law-enforcement dealt with? Did they have any kind of dedicated sheriff/constable, or was there some sort of ye olde neighborhood-watch or something different?
>>46877646
The sensible ones are the ones who keep the hobby the same as it is.
The retarded ones who somehow have power want to change it to what they desire.
>>46877777
>No. The actual figure is less than 1% of people during the middle age did not leave their village at some point in their lives
I find this figure about as reliable and substantiated as the claim that only 5% left the village.
But yeah, the reality is that people did travel. In vast majority for two core reasons: trade, which generally speaking meant going to the nearest town or the largest village in the region (also, related to OP's question, ABSOLUTE MAJORITY of all transactions and business was conducted on marketplaces, where you see the goods offered, you don't need to read anything) and pilgrimages, which when it comes to peasantry were usually conducted communally - the whole village often traveled to the nearest sacred spot together during some of the holidays.
Another substantial amount of traveling was done by day laborers, which migrated from village to village, and obviously when making rounds around local key figures like the millers (which usually were outside of village and serviced several of them), blacksmiths, etc...
>>46877844
and i never asked for /v/ to become a monstrous shithole, but it did. i left for other sites and just visit 4chan occasionally. just admit its dead and move on
>>46877853
Peacekeeping was the land owners job and it was the entire reason why peasants paid taxes to them in the first place. They paid for protection.
>>46877871
Are there any good alternatives to /tg/ that aren't slow as shit though?
>>46877837
>The movement's advocates, known as "Social Justice Warriors" or "SJWs", claim that the movement is a "racist sexist shitlods" against proud womyn, a talking point they came up with to deflect accusations that they were simply attacking gamers. They also claim that they advocate for "freedom of speech", but only because multiple websites banned SJWs for mounting witch hunts against gamers and others. Gamergate has become a crank magnet for conservative and reactionary pundits who have tagged along in order to attack gamers and "WHITE MALES" (by which they mean "people who are sane"); the hate group has since evolved into an amorphous and leaderless mob (although some big names pop up now and again) that spends most of its time being embroiled in claims of misogyny, anti-feminism, racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia, and the culture war against "social justice warriors" in the gaming world. Some SJWs have attempted to handwave this away by suggesting that these reactionary voices are nothing more than third party trolls, but toxic trolling by SJWs is what Gamergate was always about.
There you go.
>>46877888
Probably IRC groups that don't want anything to do with us.
Yo, I got a big fat book here full of direct primary sources from people between the Carolignian Age and the 15th century, want me to quote the choicest ones? They're pretty cool.
>>46877860
Change can be good if it leads to higher quality in our hobby. But yes the sort of change those people want is retarded. I just found it funny how you implied it was 'female gamers' who were the issue. desu its external sjws and the people making money off the related journalism who are the 'source' of the push you are worried about.
>>46877871
so, what's a better board for /tg/ stuff? and its not like this place is too bad. most of the serious threads have great content and people talking about things seriously.
>>46876945
>My problem with neo /tg/ is the lack of OC. It's like we are suffering creative bankruptcy and people are discouraged from thinking outside the box just in case it makes you a special snowflake.
>>46877067
>I remember that /tg/ chased drawfags off the board for some retarded reason. I also rememberd that around the same time the nazi janitor deleted all the brainstorming thread that was not based around a comercial /tg/ product. After that dose of "no fun allowed" a lot of the creative people went elsewhere.
The answer is SMUT!
>>46877270
>I'm seriously worried that some mod purged it because it was, technically speaking, off topic.
>>46877338
>Wouldn't be surprised, some of the mods seem to take their jobs a bit to seriously.
>>46877387
>If that is really the case, that would be depressing as fuck. Writefag threads actually gave lot of people will and courage to write (myself included) and there were some really good debates there - I know at least one case where criticisms provided there got a originally rejected story re-writen and eventually published.
And this is why an anti-smut /tg/ sucks...
>>46877655
>You really shouldn't need encouragement to do anything.
>>46877728
>That is hilarious and painfully naive. People need encouragement. It's one of our most basic social regulators, there is nothing pathological about it. Writing when you know somebody will read it, and when you know that person is not going to laugh at you about how stupid it is is much easier than writing works that you pretty much know nobody will read.
Indeed, clearly somebody doesn't know about amateur writing... or any amateur-level artisanship for that matter...
>>46877853
>When it comes to the smaller villages, how was peacekeeping/law-enforcement dealt with?
Depends on when and where. But in central Europe, there wasn't much of either necessary. The villages were extremely closely tied together, the interdependence did a lot of the peacekeeping itself. The biggest source of trouble were family feuds, which were usually solved by the village elder with the help of the local priest. They did not have any dedicated sheriff's or neighbor watch, though some regions had something like a militia (in southern Moravia, for an instance, there was an institution called "Mládci" ("Young ones") which was akin to a militia, it generally served to protect the village from outside, not to keep watch over themselves.
Problems that could not be solved by the elders and the priest were then driven up, to their liege. In some cases, the liege could send somebody to oversee the village for some time, but rarely permanently.
In some Irish and Gallic cultures, in early middle ages, some of the local lords would assign one or two members of their entourage to a semi-permanent guard in a village if I remember correctly. But really, it was more about the village having to feed them instead of the court.
>>46877913
>>46877888
im on reddit and GITP forums. laugh and greentext at me all you want, but ive found those sites to deal with "mature" issues far more intelligently than /tg/ ever has.
honestly though, just go to your local game store and strike a conversation up. even total cunts are tempered by being in social contact with people
>>46877878
>>46877928
That's some pretty interesting reading, especially the stuff about Moravia young ones. Thanks guys!
>>46877912
Please do, though I don't know how much it'll help
>>46877933
GITP is full of highschoolers and people that don't know systems beyond DnD. RPGnet is pretty decent though.
Also, forums serve a different purpose to real life interaction.
>>46873559
My cousin once went birdwatching in some middle of nowhere backwoods and got mistaken for a priest.
You see, he was wearing good threads, and carrying with him this large guidebook that said simply "Birds" on the cover.
Nearby peasants put together two and two: well dressed man visiting their village, carrying "B...." book, clearly it's gotta be a "Bible". So they invited him to give a sermon.
Were they illiterate? Well, they recognized the letter B, so not quite. So while medieval peasants of this sort perhaps couldn't make it through a sentence, they would still be able to tell apart a "Smith" business sign from a "Inn" business sign without needing pictograms.
>>46877710
It's telling that the term is mainly to be found in "Has Political Correctness gone too far?!?!?! (We think yes and here's why)"-articles.
>Eh, yeah I've read a few articles from ex-critical theoreticist that weren't exactly favorable, but still the main bulk of the theory runs pretty much unscathed.
Yes, they ONLY quarreled about how to corretly apply the methodes of sociology to the problems of society and the Frankfurter School actually flat out lost to Critical Rationalism in practice. Whenever you read about social scientists offering fixes, that's Critical Rationalism, not the Frankfurter School of Cultural Marxism.
The Frankfurter School of Cultural Marxism was in fact banished to the Ivory Tower of Academia because they pointed out that the wrongs Critical Rationalism claimed that it could fix were oftentimes essential cogs in society's machinery.
>>46877731
We find traces of international trade as far back as the stone age.
>>46877933
None of those option sound that great for talking more obscure rpgs. The problem with reddit is that unpopular things will just remain unpopular and it's hard as fuck to get proper conversations going when you have that going against you.
On talking to random LGS members I think that's kind of a given that everyone does, and the downside to that is that you never get the crowd discussions in local settings. The average LGS player only knows about D&D, Magic, and Warhammer which makes it hard to discuss other topics.
>>46877927
Yeah, smut /tg/ is more fun /tg/. You also have to be a retard to browse 4chan at work.
>>46877954
>That's some pretty interesting reading, especially the stuff about Moravia young ones.
Yeah, the tradition actually lived up till the end of nineteen century, and there are still celebrations and festivities that reflect it, though obviously the institution does not exist anymore.
It was fun, because every year they would vote for a new leader of the young one's (so called "Stárek", "Old One" ironically): as the position would require to select only the most physically and mentally capable, they would have "contests" to see who is the most suited. The contests involved very long and physically exhausting dancing (they would dance until they would literally pass out sometime), and - and this is some really funny shit - improv rhyming face-off's, where the contestants were required to improvise extremely insulting verses about their opponents, and react to the insults hurled at you. Basically fucking rap battles. My grandfather used to still remember some of the shit these kids would throw at each other when he was a kid - unsurprisingly, most of the verses were about dicks.
There would be also inter-village competitions, basically capture-the-flag where each villages had this weird totem (Májka) thing, and groups of Young ones were trying to steal it from each other, while protecting their own.
As far as I know, these customs were actually documented AT LEAST to 15th century, and probably were older. But as I said: it was a militia, not police or law watch. The young ones would gather when there was an external thread to the village, or would serve their lord when necessary.
>>46877845
>forcing the invisible hand
Honestly, you guys are lucky that nobody picked up on the fact that you're cryptocommies yet.
>>46873559
The "middle ages" is a very long time.
from 500-1000 basically nobody could read but it improved gradually. Law and business was mostly done by word or with the help of priests.
After that Look here
>>46874016
tl;dr cities developed very differently from the rest.
After about 1300 children will have started to visit something like Sunday school at least in areas that weren't to rural.
Britain, Spain, THRE and France developed very differently however so you will have to look at them individually after about 1200. English peasants will have been more literate than French or German peasants.
>>46878003
I've seen Car Wars mentioned once on the GITP forums so it's not like they're all highschoolers, some older people still exist. I'm just happy whenever I see Car Wars mentioned anywhere so it's memorable to me when I see it.
>>46877853
>>46877878
Generally, the village policed itself and at very least had the right to punish lesser crimes (anything that wasn't punishable by death or disfigurement) on their own. Everything else depended on their specific agreement with their liege.
Other than that - we're talking about a period that lasted a thousand friggin years that didn't really keep too detailed records and didn't believe in equality before the law to begin with.
>>46877964
The following is a secular song by University students in the 12th century
>Hooray! Today's a holiday / a happy day - a jolly day / a day to strum guitars and play / the good old songs the good old way / to love your neighbour and display / the side of you that's bright and gay / and students most of all / for they excel at parties anyway!
>So throw your books and slates away / there's food for which you needn't pay / forget the works of Ovid, eh? / and tell his friends to go and play / Never mind what people say / youth needs it's recreations / since the world is making hay / let's join the celebrations!
The following is a poem by a Jewish poet in Spain, 1092-1169:
>Out Of Luck
>However I struggle, I cannot succeed, for my stars have ruined me
>If I were a dealer in shrouds, no one would die as long as I lived
The following is a private correspondence between a nobleman and noblewoman in 12th century Troyes, North France.
>The more I drink my fill of your sweetness, the more I thirst. All my wealth has gathered in you alone, all I have power to do has its source in you. So, that we may devote ourselves to each other, you are I and I am you.
>>46877976
>Frankfurter School actually flat out lost to Critical Rationalism in practice.
I'm sorry, but that is JUST FLAT OUT NOT RIGHT. "Critical rationalism" is a term associated with Carl Popper of all people. That is late (soft) positivism. That has FUCK ALL to do with current social studies schools and was COMPLETELY demolished by post-structuralist, post-modern and critical theory philosophy. Literally, not a stone was left unturned. Scorched earth.
I deal sociological and anthropological texts and research data on daily basis and no: critical theory, the Marxist based critical theory holds overwhelming majority in both theory and folk perceptions of social phenomena in the western world.
The only, ONLY place where Critical rationalism had played some role were the obscure few "novopositivistic feminists" who were pretty much forgotten, just a freak child of history.
>>46878138
>No, they don't, and they don't want it, either. Rape fantasies are the most common sexual fantasies among women for a reason; deep down, they want to be ruled over by worthy, attractive men.
Women have been reporting their disgust with rape as early as 1405, with Christine de Pizan's work, "The Book of the City of Ladies", where she discusses with Rectitude just such the assumption that, like then just as now, men believe women wish to be raped even if they protest verbally!I've got a primary source for the exact quote but holy SHIT is this thing long.
>>46878272
Dude... I was so hoping nobody would take the fucking bait and you had to go out of your way and ruin it.IT'S A FUCKING BAIT. JESUS IT'S THE CHEAPEST BAIT IMAGINABLE.
>>46878272
Gib sauce pls, preferably in .pdf form.
I always enjoy reading medieval chronicles and non-fiction.
>>46878272
The standard refutation to that is claiming that the fact that you can not experimentally establish the nature of the universal bait that could lure all fish in all seas, rivers and ponds without fail clearly means that the knowledge of it has been inside of you all along. And outside forces have been working hard to prevent you from realizing that.
>>46878383
>Gib sauce pls, preferably in .pdf form.
http://www.amazon.com/A-Medieval-Miscellany-Judith-Herrin/dp/0670893773
I'm trying my hardest to find a pdf but they don't seem to exist for this book.
>>46875866
Basically it was a controversy regarding internet and print media becoming too corrupt when it comes to games. Gamers had been insulted, mocked, and lied to for thirty years, and not granted certain consumer rights because "muh piracy bogeyman". Some woman accused of sucking dick for good reviews was the straw that broke the camels back and exploded from there.
The media keeps trying to paint them as sexist because it's an easy word to spell and they know that they're the target.
>>46878416
Since this one's fairly short and cute, here's one I managed to type out.
>"The Student and his White Cat" was a poem written in the margins of a manuscript of St. Paul's Epistles by an Irish Student in a monastery in Carinthia, Austria, probably in the ninth century.
>I and Pangur Ban, my cat
>Tis a like task we are at
>Hunting Mice is his delight
>Hunting words I sit all night
>Better far than praise of men
>Tis to sit with book and pen
>Pangur bears me no ill-will
>He, too, plies his simple skill
>Tis a merry thing to see
>At our tasks how glad are we
>When at home we sit and find
>Entertainment comes to our mind
>Oftentimes a mouse will stray
>In the path of Pangur's way
>Oftentimes my keen thought set
>Takes a meaning in its net
>'Gainst the wall he sets his eye
>Full and fierce and sharp and sly
>'Gainst the wall of knowledge I
>All my little wisdom try
>When a mouse darts from its den
>O! How glad is Pangur then!
>O! What gladness do I prove
>When I solve my doubts I love
>So our task in peace we ply
>Pangur Ban, my cat, and I
>In our arts we find our bliss
>I have mine and he has his
>Practice every day has made
>Pangur perfect in his trade
>I get wisdom day and night
>Turning darkness into light
>>46878517
This poem is quite famous, and became the inspiration for the "character" of Pangur Ban in the movie Secret of Kells (if you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend that you do, it's probably the only western animated movie that can live up to Miyazaki's work).
They even recite the poem in Irish during the final credits.
There is also a song that refers to Pangur Ban, though it's lyrics are about something different (one of the characters, a fairy named Aisling is singing about Pangur Ban the character - cat - within the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTiSak8r9P8
>>46878563
HOLY SHIT I did not notice how crap quality the sound is in that video.
Sorry. Better version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIFNTpKllug
Sadly without the stunning visual company. But it won't make your ears bleed.
>>46878563
Song of the Sea was just as good as Secret of Kells
>>46878138
>No, they don't, and they don't want it, either. Rape fantasies are the most common sexual fantasies among women for a reason; deep down, they want to be ruled over by worthy, attractive men.
Just because something is common doesn't mean that everyone does it. or even that everyone indulges in their sexual fantasies. Women unlike men also exercises more critical thinking when selection a mate because their physical and mental sexual desires are separate. So a women can be horny, but she can also rationalise away inferior genestock better than men when they are horny.
Because you can't read two different moods at the same time everything you do is wrong.
>>46876593
Well basically all of the Sanders people killed themselves when it became obvious that they weren't going to get to steal other peoples' money to fund their gender studies degrees, and now all that's left are /pol/acks looking for commies to fight. You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when the only leftists left to hunt are on /tg/.
>>46878606
I still listen to the music from that movie, the group making these movies are just fantastic.
Makes me excited to see what mythological creature or folktale they do next!
>>46878606
>Song of the Sea was just as good as Secret of Kells
I don't agree (though I'd say the soundtrack and obviously the art direction were totally on par).
I think the story of Secret of Kells was much stronger, and the Song of the Sea had some serious pacing and script-writing issues. Though, admittedly, Secret isn't without it's flaws: the first twenty minutes look more like something out of cartoon network, the diversity priests are somewhat jarring and the Crom Cruach scene feels a bit out of place too.
I love both to the death for the sheer beauty of.. everything on display, but I really though Secret was substantially better story wise, having one of the most beautiful endings and core messages I've seen in a fairy tale in decades.
That fucking music though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlXp5vJr8zI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jITQs_AXRok
Why aren't these movies more famous and popular. They are only matched by the best of Pixar production in western animation.
>>46878633
They've already done Selkie and elves, either they'll do a mythological tale or something about trolls or Huldra (a Huldra looking after a clever young child would be honestly kind of adorable.)
>>46878138
Please go back to /pol9k/.
>>46878477
Yes, yes, because the best way to win consumer's rights from multinational companies who have a history of not giving a fuck is to sacrifies many goat.
Scapegoats, preferably.
>>46878617
Go onto /d/ any day and you'll see posts from people who want to be melted into goo, or eaten alive, or transformed into a handbag or something.
On topic, literacy is going to depend on the number of available books.
If your setting has a printing press, then expect most people of social importance to be literate.
If your setting doesn't, then it's a lot harder for people to get books. Merchants would all be literate you'd assume, for bookkeeping purposes. Clergy also.
I like the idea of Elves in fantasy not having a written language at all. Hell, make them functionally dyslexic, perhaps? Would add an interesting drawback to anyone wanting to special-snowflake.
>>46878633
Tomm More seems to be currently involved with a child animated TV show Puffin Rocks, which seems to be targeted at very, very young audience.
Frankly, as sad as it is, neither Secret of Kells nor Song of the Sea were particularly commercially successful, I'm not sure if he even has options to work on feature-length movies anymore.
>>46878696
They're sticking pretty close to just Irish/North Atlantic myths. Jumping over to Scandinavia would break the tone too much.
>>46878696
A story with a Huldra and a young boy would be too much like Secret of Kells, unless the Huldra was an adult and the story developed around their relationship.
>>46878729
Actually, he's meant to be working on a film called 'wolfwalkers'.
>>46878729
>>46878752
Correction:
Tomm Moore is currently producing a movie called Breadwinner (based on a book about 9 years old girl in Afghanistan!) and he should be writing/animating a movie called Wolfwakers, which we don't know much about, except one pic displaying a young girl with a crossbow and a wolf.
>>46878727
>Go onto /d/ any day and you'll see posts from people who want to be melted into goo, or eaten alive, or transformed into a handbag or something.
Sure, people are weird, but they also hide that weirdness from other people in real life because they want to be percieved as someone that fits in. 4chan is designed to completely remove your identity from the social interface, so nothing you say as Anonymous traces back to you. That's why people are more honest on 4chan than they are on Facebook.
/d/ also don't make up any significant portion of 4chan.
>>46878817
Apparently he also made a segment for a 2014 movie "The Prophet", which I never even fucking heard about.
>>46878776
>>46878696
>Huldra
>In a movie meant for young children
It's also beyond the scope of the mythology, as others have said.
>>46878865
>In a movie meant for young children
First of all, have you even seen Secret of Kells? Moore ain't exactly shy to dip into things most child story tellers would avoid as much as possible.
Second of all, Moore does not adhere to the mythology strictly. He made a show about talking birds doing cute things, a segment of a movie adaptation of famous Mexican naivist poet, and his next movie is going to be essentially about voluntary werewolfs.
>>46878865
Selkie are murder/rape bait and they managed to make an adorable movie about that, hell one of the most famous stories featuring Huldra was about a young boy going out to fish, chancing upon a Huldra, and cleverly pointing out the cow tail peeking under her skirt, which impressed the Huldra who told the child where the best fishing spots are.
>>46878865
Could be a Skogsrå instead. Which is a Scandinavian succubus that upon closer inspection has a back made out of hollowed out rotten wood.
>>46878848
Well yeah. I was specifically talking about bizarre-ass fantasies that people don't enact in real life.
>>46878865
Just because Huldra are traditionally seductresses does not mean they can not (or have not) be used in a non-sexual way, see >>46878904
>>46878913
Yes, beause unlike most other animals we humans are not complete slaves to our sexual impulses. Being abel to override our impulses and instincts with ease is the reason why humans rule over the planet. Our sexuality is just a facet of our personality and anyone that defines themselves or other people by that facet is a shallow person.
>>46878865
>>In a movie meant for young children
Song of the Sea starts with a segment of a poem by Yeats, called "The Stolen Child".
Come away you human child
To the waters, and the wild
With a fairy hand-in-hand
For the world is more full of weeping
Than will ever understand
Secret of Kells features death of at least thousand people, being completely mercilessly slaughtered, and the whole story is a giant switch-and-bait about hyping up a "book that can defeat the evil", only to eventually say that there is no such thing, it's just that the book is very pretty, and beauty can give people will and reason to survive even harsh times. Including aforementioned mass slaughter.
>>46878865
A movie about a Huldra and her young charge would be adorable, though. You've got what is essentially a powerful forest spirit watching over a human, something she secretly yearns to become, even as she displays all the noble qualities people aspire for in humanity. The themes pretty much write themselves.
>>46878992
I'm pretty sure that we're having an argument where we're both on the same side.
In a setting with magic, stuff like voice recordings, or talking messenger pigeons, or scrolls that read themselves might be commonplace. Someone who learns to read might be seen the same way as someone in the modern day US who learns to write in Aramaic.
>>46878272
And yet 50 Shades of Grey is a bestseller, and "bodice ripper" romance novels are one of the biggest subgenres of the biggest genre of novels. The key to realize is that what women say they want and what women actually want are two totally different things.
>>46879185
It does, and maybe that is precisely why he is avoiding it. Also, the thematical and tonal overlap with Secret of Kells would be really damn big.
Seems like Moore is also getting interested in some darker stuff too. A story about a little girl forced to be the breadwinner in contemporary Afghanistan, and a story about wolf hunteress joining a wolf-worshiping cult in what seems to be 17th century Ireland complete with inquisition seem like a bit of a tonal shift from his previous works.
>>46878113
Yo my man what book is this
>>46879419
50 shades is pure consensual though. And bodice rippers rarely have any rape in them aswell.I know that last thing because my mother translates those from english
