Statblock Edition
Discuss the viability of the Warcraft universe as a tabletop RPG setting. Have fun, don't go full autist, and keep your cool. Keep your asspain to yourself. This is not /v/ or /vg/.
Previous thread: >>46827334
guys, how do I make alterac great again.
>>46866204
Don't let ogres shit all over the place.
How would you go about an Arthas redemption story without butchering everything like blizzard is doing?
>>46867587
What's there to redeem? Arthas got his sendoff already. Plus, it's hard to redeem a character who very naturally fell to evil because of his own character. To redeem Arthas would be to change him fundamentally.
>>46867637
The thing is, blizzard is writing itself into a corner with the illidan story by making him
>did no wrong ever
and being an end justifies the means character. And they are doing a terrible job. I want to see if you can do the same for blond boy
>>46868196
I wouldn't say they exactly made Illidan a dindu, but more that he shouldn't have been our priority since he was the enemy of our enemy.
We went to Outland because of an invasion of Legion forces, yet we ended up getting sidetracked and going after the Illidari.
>>46868309
yes because he was doing shady shit and was batshit insane.
Now apparently it was all keikaku dori
>>46868580
He's still did shady shit. It's just that he wasn't as batshit insane as we assumed.
Illidan was redeemed because Blizzard deemed killing him in BC a mistake. Arthas was indended from the get go to die in Wrath.
Kael'thas stands a better chance of 'lolredeemed' than Lich King lite.
>>46868748
hence the question
>how would you go about it.
>We dindu nuffin
>>46868580
>>46868730
The stuff they explain in the book really tries to turn everything that happened in TBC on its head. Not only was Illidan making serious inroads against the Burning Legion (blowing up the Nathrezim planet, for example), but he even personally protected the Alliance and Horde at the foot of the Dark Portal from a Burning Legion flank, and to this day, they still don't know he did it. That's how you turn a conceived-to-be-evil character into a dindu: by inventing new acts that validate them.
>>46871148
man, king really let himself go huh?
>>46869680
I wouldn't, and I don't think it'd be possible without all of the fan base collectively losing their shit. I don't even think blizzard would take such a risk.
>>46871588
they seem to do so for illidan, and it was far more believable than
>arthas was the lich king all along
Does anyone have the metzen pasta as to why people will buy legion instead of FF14?
>>46865819
are there any of those pages for high and/or blood elves?
>>46873308
Someone just made that last thread, so I doubt it.
>>46872706
because most people aren't weebshitters
>>46867587
Have his soul be tortured over what he did. Have him spend what feels like eternity replaying the same scenarios over and over again, with all the evil ramifications spelled out for him. A little personal hell.
An when he's at a point where he's contemplating ways to snuff out his own spirit, have a Naaru come along. Have it explain, in great detail, how he went wrong and why the world being the way it is is actually his fault.
And then have it tell him he has a chance to right it.
Arthas chose his evils because he thought he was doing good. He was faced with scenarios that had no good answers. Knowing the evil he did, I don't think it would be a stretch to see him want to fix it, especially once he's free of Frostmourne. Or at least try to fix things.
>>46873308
I just did the troll one last thread. I could do more, but for HE/BE, I'm not really sure how I would make them stand out from the existing High Elf subrace in the PHB, which already has most of the stuff you'd expect from Warcraft High Elves as well (bonuses to Dex and Int, always knows one wizard cantrip to represent affinity with magic, automatic proficiency with bows and swords). About the only big thing missing is the BE racial mana-tap ability, but that's be very hard to convert to DnD and would probably end up being way too powerful as a racial bonus.
I was thinking of doing a little "splatbook" of sorts, themed around the Burning Legion (what's with the next expansion being all about them, and their nature means you could theoretically have them show up in a non-Azeroth setting as well), with rules for playable Draenei and demonhunters, and statblocks for various demons (like doomguards, felhounds, infernals, voidwalkers and the Eredar Lords of the Burning legion).
>>46866204
>MAGA
>>46865819
Hey, working on a Beyond the Wall Hack for Warcraft. Doing a Horde thing right now, was wondering if you guys had any good idea for hard rules when it comes to Kalimdor as a setting?
Mine so far:
1. Kalimdor is large and mysterious, the barrens are nearly endless, the forests can swallow up civilization, and the mountains reach the heavens. No one map of Kalimdor captures the truth of its scope.
2. Despite the length of time spent settling Kalimdor, the Orcs hold little more than Durotar, and the Tauren hold Thunder Bluff; any settlements beyond these areas are nomadic, temporary, or small oasis of civilization in the great frontier wilds.
3. Kalimdor is spiritual, its woods are haunted, its plains carry the souls of ancestral beasts on the wind, and one cannot always be sure what is the truth of a creature.
4. The Kaldorei are mysterious and violent, they want little to do with the colonist efforts and actively attack them with guerrila warfare. They have a loose alliance with the Lordaeron refugees of Theramore.
5. Life is harsh, but it is better than anywhere else for the Horde.
Trying to keep it timeline vague, but with some additions from WotLK/Cata/MoP. Horde consists of Orcs, Trolls (Jungle, Forest, some Sand, some Frost, any that come are welcomed), Goblins (Kezan and Steamwheedle), Tauren (further in-land), Ogre, Taunka (a few envoy), Mantid (a few envoy), Hozen (small population), and a few Houjin Pandaren and Mogu (small population), and even some kobold, quillboar and centaur who are outcasts.
Orgrimmar is a metropolis of refugees, a shrapnel and gunmetal slumtown in the desert that's trying to build itself up proper. It is always at a loss for something, but the military is always funded enough to keep the city standing for one more day.
Idea is for a sort of hexcrawl domain game of adventuring and colonization with Orgrimmar as a place you can always go home to, but always need to assist with. It is a family not a government.
>>46876087
Switch mogu with youngol and I think it would be better.
>>46876709
I could see that, it was mostly the idea of a few Mogu bringing some of the esoteric nasty magic tech to the Horde in the Valley of Shadows; something to counteract the more forthright Houjin military philosophy. Nothing in huge numbers, but a few that are present and have nasty curious for sale and on display.
I haven't played properly since Wrath, so much of my knowledge is based on the rule of cool and general thoughts on how a pre-WoW Horde might deal with these things.
Looking at the Horde Player's Guide now, it had a few more good rules.
6. Savages. The Horde is just a collective of savages and diaspora survivors clinging together. They lack subtlety unless they have it in spades, and those combinations don't work out well. These are bloodthirsty people who see themselves as deserving survival after countless losses, wars, and attempted genocides. They will be quick to rage, rather than sorrow, if that is threatened.
7. Small Forces. Despite their power within the new continent, the Horde is still lacking in numbers proper. People are trying to get by and their constant lack of resources is a problem that drives them to desperate measures at times. They are the underdogs, but they are the few compared to the hornet's nest of Sillithids beneath the continent, the Centaur Khanate Hordes, the Razorfen Quillboar, or the Sentinels.
8. Technology. The Horde lacks technology like the alliance has, and what they can get is culture-shockingly gap-creating stuff. The magitech of some races and the raw destructive capabilities of others can bridge some gaps, but they are often more trouble than they're worth. Not to mention the scarcity issue. If the Alliance can give crates of guns to the Grimtotem, those Grimtotem have a great advantage over the few Orcs in Orgrimmar who have ever even held one.
Getting into more of a theme of desperate survival where expansion is a common desire.
>>46876909
About number 7, yeah i can see them being outnumbered by the Silithids, but the should be about equal numbers to centaurs and quillboars and more than the NE Sentinels. Besides the Sentinels are more of a guerilla, hit and run force anyway.
Also, think of trade and horde holdings and what would threaten them. Ratchet? That human keep in Durotar which I forgot the name of? How trade will be affected between Org and TB during Vanilla and how those shipments have to be airlifted during cata onwards.
>>46876909
For Timeline Purposes:
>WC3 is core.
The world is fresh from WC3. The Burning Legion was defeated, the Scourge and the remnants of the Legion lurk in the dark corners of Kalimdor. The Orcs have settled in and fought off Grand Admiral Proudmoore. Kalimdor is largely an unknown for anyone but the Night Elves, most of whom are still asleep.
Everything that comes after is up in the air for picking and choosing what looks cool and what might be fun to explore.
>>46876979
>Numbers
I'd say for a direct threat they could fight off most things, but it is a matter of getting those various factions within Orgrimmar to cooperate together to handle the small problems that hinder inner-faction conflict. The Darkspear had to give up Voodoo and Cannibalism to be part of the Horde proper, and those are hard habits to break. The Tauren are exceptionally peaceful and revere the nature that the Horde needs to slash and burn to stay afloat. The Forsaken allies to the Horde make everyone a bit nervous and they stick to Lordaeron for a reason, same with the potential allies within the Blood Elves. Ogres are seen as gluttonous and stupid, only "giving their fair share" when it comes to violence. The Goblins are in it for the money and to leave their mark, but mostly the money. Hozen, Mantid, Yaungol, Mogu are all curios and independents, not large enough in any number to do too much.
They're a family, but not everyone is going to back one another at all times. They need to get better at that, and concentrate on the bigger picture. I think the theme of everyday survival will be important, because Orgrimmar is a few foul remarks away from a gangland situation.
Trade with Ratchet makes sense, but Ratchet's contending with pirates and trying to exploit the Barrens while also contending with industrial intrigue from the Venture Company. Which is in turn pissing off the Tauren.
>>46877041
So cohesively, the Horde is trying to get along. Everyone is trying to get along as best they can, but when one group moves another one gets pushed a little. A rising tide may raise all ships, but it can batter the hell outta them against the docks.
Orgrimmar is crowded, there's not enough to go around but people try, crime isn't up but it is present and it is organized, old cults and beliefs are springing up just as fast as the new cults and beliefs. The people are trying to make the best they can for themselves out of a drought-blasted wasteland, but self-sufficiency farming is not living; it is just surviving.
And then you have the Alliance sending expeditions from across the sea, causing violence and trouble but you can't really strike back at them until they've already pushed you. A lot of them are survivors of the Scourge; but plenty are profiteers looking to stake a claim on what was supposed to be your second chance. Dwarves are dredging up your ancestral relics to put in a museum, Gnomes are bringing in tech that is frankly dangerous in a whole different way than the Goblins, and that's to say nothing of how Humanity is making deals with Furbolgs and the Night Elves.
Suddenly it looks like if you're not willing to branch out and take what you need for the Horde, the Alliance will take it out from under you. And who is to say they won't come in right after you fight with all your blood, sweat and tears against Centaur, Pig-man, and Silithid and just take it from you because you're tired and weak?
With Belves/Forsaken as sort of a non-situation due to their Eastern location, the interior threats of the Horde then have less to do with ulterior motives across the sea and more to do with the fact that unless they break this land to them, it might be taken from them. And they need to find a way to agree on this and do this before they starve, succumb to in-fighting, or get beaten down by an exterior threat.
>>46877139
Maybe think of it in stages.
Stage one: Road to TB.
Main objecting; Build a road from Orgrimmar to TB
So there two ways. Org to Razor Hill to Crossroads (to be constucted) to Taurajo and Bloodhoof village and TB. And the secondary road along the southfury river.
From there, we can put your PCs against the quillboar, the centaur, building Xroads under seige and many other minor threats like wildlife, lack of resources, heatstroke which causes Barrens chat, and sidequests like getting the road to Ratchet for a bunch of gobbo money
And so on.
>>46877282
I like that. It is a loose enough frame-work to allow for some hexploration and domain gaming while still keeping everything very wild and uncertain. Thank you.
Opens up plenty of room for weirdness and other such threats. My main issue in all this is not railroading the PCs with the things that need doing, but giving them a good bit of exploration with a solid central location that they need to settle and fortify for the sake of getting goods and services ought to work out just right.
Are feralas tauren different enough from barrens tauren to receive a subspecies thing in a D&D-like rpg?
>>46876909
Why would the Horde have a small amount of guns when you already allowed goblins into the horde?
>>46877671
Fair point. I'm just spitballing general concepts, looking to see what sticks. Guns I could see being in shortage if only due to them being built for goblins, and the lack of proper resources for making new quality ones stopping them from dominating the market via mass-manufacturing. That and perhaps some of the ones they brought out to sell originally with some "modifications" for Orcish and such hands ended up exploding. You maim one marksman, word will carry. Especially after he beats you to death with his stump.
But I'll think of something more proper.
>>46877671
I figured they were more interested in the bombs rather than the guns. Easier to use, no maintainence, the trigger was too small for larger hands, remember goblin sappers and so on. Sure some hordies were interested but i figured they were more interested in goblin bombs and explosives rather than guns.
>>46877671
Would you want to touch a gun built by goblins? Would you even want to be in the same building?
>>46877737
>>46877718
>>46877716
Believing dwarven lies our guns are technological marvels and are among the best in Azeroth and yes we can build tauren sized guns if they paid us of course.
>>46877547
Probably not. They're still pretty much the same Tauren, although their culture might be a bit different due to the different environment.
>>46878024
>>46877547
You know what's weird? Theres a tauren subspecies on every continent except the eastern kingdoms. I mean, hell, an island that arose less than 15 years ago has mooserens.
>>46879061
They retconned it to just the Broken Shore rising. The Broken Isles likely had some mist about them to prevent peeps from coming there.
>>46879061
>play a tauren
>finally get to Townlong Steppes
>the yaungol are boring as shit and literally only exist so there could be a Mongol expy in not-China
th-thanks
>demons can cross between different timelines
>any mortal that gets corrupted hard enough becomes a full demon
>at the end of Warlords a bunch of arakkoa get corrupted by the Shadow Council so they can fly again
fingers crossed for more birbs in Legion
The guy who made the Troll race rules for 5th edition here. I also made rules for Draenei.
>>46880426
pretty cool, but maybe add in a bit under alignment about non-lawful good draenei tending to fall to evil eventually? Might be unfeasible to implement in D&D though
>>46877771
You really gonna trust this corporate advertising, anons? It's your skin out there. Bows and hatchets are time-tested.
>>46879174
PRC Stronk
>>46881630
on the bright side the kazoo inn song is the best in the game
>>46881723
best thing in the expansion
>>46881723
>>46882196
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1waVSu4adDM
is she confirmed to be shipped with valeera?
>>46883684
I thought Valeera was to be shipped withAnduin.
>>46884013
nah. Valeera is too pure for that
>>46883684
So anything happened with Valeera after comics?
>>46884394
addicted to card games
>>46884439
Yeah, but Hearthstone is not shipping characters together.
>>46883684
shes dead bruh
>>46884489
>what is Warsong Commander (rip) and Grim Patron
>>46884737
A group of Darkiron dwarves gangbanging a female orc.
>>46884835
>hey everyone! get in here!
>>46884503
Apparently she's a Rogue follower in Legion.
Why Draenei girls are best girls?
>>46885384
You can literally see how she's looking forward to that puppy growing up into a big strong houndto give her the knot.
>>46885195
ohhh right, alternate universe bullshit where everyone isn't dead. I guess blizz can do w/e they want with this xpac.
>>46885453
Nah, it's the same character. The only AU stuff they've done was on Draenor, and they seem to be brushing pretty much all of that under the rug, except AU Gul'dan who shows up in Legion as a villain.
>>46885384
>fangsThis is my fetish.
Nelf and draenei girls are the best.
>>46883684
>>46884013
I'm convinced that Varian had Valeera sent away to do card games because she kick-started Anduin's puberty, and he didn't want her making a man out of him or getting addicted to elf-booty.
Hell, Anduin getting some confidence would be a good thing.
>Dad, can I ask you something?
>Gladly, my son.
>Father, why is it my private parts tingle whenever Valeera is around?
>By the light! I- realized I'm late for a meeting. I'll answer your quention when I get back, Anduin.
>later
>Valeera, I have a most important assingment for you.
>My blades are yours, Varian.
>Valeera and Anduin make eye-contact in a hallway
>Valeera openly licks her lips
>Anduin goes pink and runs to the nearest room
>>46885578
Varian should let anduin see gachi.
That will straighten him.
>>46885500
well im confused now then, she definitely dies at the end of deadmines. is legion taking place in the past or some shit?
>>46885535
>Nelf and draenei girls are the best.
I know, right?
>>46885578
But Anduin is playing cards with Valeera.
>>46885829
Valeera has the entire alliance friendzoned, she only bangs orcs.
>>46885907
DELETE THIS
>>46877282
Don't forget the Echo Isles and Sen'jin Village south of Orgrimmar.
>>46885829
>playing cards
>>46885717
How definite is anything when the PCs are drugged out of their minds?
>>46886070
Apparently, that's actually what happened. Vanessa VanCleef appears as a member of the Uncrowned at first. When asked how she survivied the Deadmines, she said she was such an ace alchemist and poisoner that the PC party raiding the Deadmines hallucinated the entire thing.
>>46886150
>ywn smoke the dank bud with vanessa and then fuck her after completing a mission
>>46886207
if you pay $60 and pre order legion, and have a rogue, that dream can come true.
>>46886231
not worth it
>>46886207
>Implying any kush is superior to Darkspear and tauren kush
Alliance dogs can't handle REAL dank shit.
>>46886207
>>46886231
Only rogues get to bang Vanessa.
Also, reminder that warlocks get the Eredar Twins from Sunwell Plateau as order hall minions.
>>46886335
>be DK
>get sally whitemane
>the DK trainer lady
its all good
>>46886335
>kill some crazy warlock bitch and her sister while fighting the legion
>spend months farming that booty (and belt and wrists)
>6 years later both show up at your door with them bedroom eyes.
Blizzard what?
>>46886335
>>46886780
It'd be especially awkward if you were that same warlock who fought them back at Sunwell Plateau.
>Well, well. Look what we have here, Alythess. I remember that little face.
>Is that...? It IS, Sacrolash! It's they tiny little warlock we met all those years ago back at the Sunwell.
>My, how time flies. You were quite the little runt back then, weren't you? Your demons were pitiful, your hellfire could scarcely light a candle...
>...and don't forget the thirty-nine friends he had to bring to banish us the first time.
>I still call that one a fluke.
>And look at you now. So big and strong.
>And handsome.
>And handsome. After all, you were able to secure this entire planetoid for yourself.
>Trapping us here in the process and cutting us off from the rest of the Burning Legion.
>But make no mistake, our little warlock.
>While you toil away here to beat back the Legion, we will test you.
>We will torment you.
>We will make you beg for us and our aid.
>We're going to find out if you're as great a man as you appear to be.
>After all, you've had a few years to get stronger.
>So get cozy, warlock.
>We're going to have LOTS of fun with you.
>>46877041
>The Darkspear had to give up Voodoo and Cannibalism to be part of the Horde proper
Wasn't that only in the RPG? I don't really see the point of gimping their magical practices like that. I'd suggest letting them keep their religion and magics, especially if you're allowing the much shadier Mogu in.
>>46887028
Canonically, after rescuing and recruiting the Darkspears, Thrall tells them to cut it out with the cannibalism and voodoo; it's unsettling to everyone else. The Darkspear were able to denounce/find alternatives for cannibalism, as well as minimize their voodoo usage.
>>46887028
>>46887076
Keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things, Darkspears are extreme outliers when it comes to general troll behavior and customs. Zandalari aside, they are literally the most civilized trolls in the world.
>>46887024
>>...and don't forget the thirty-nine friends he had to bring to banish us the first time.
Sunwell Plateau was a 25 man
>>46887105
Did they downsize the raids in TBC? I thought that wasn't until Wrath.
>>46887118
vanilla was the only time raids were 40 man, BC introduced 25 mans and made actual 10 mans instead of 5 mans so hard you got to raid them
>>46887024
I am that warlock, main'ed a destro/demo lock since a few months before the launch of tbc, had to have killed those two every week until we finally downed m'uru.
>>46887193
UBRS, good times.
Man, now I'm all rose tinted glasses and halcyon days.
>>46887076
>>46887103
Yes, but the Darkspear and Vol'jin blatantly use voodoo, and I can't find a reference to it being banned in a non RPG source. While their magic might be unsettling, it's a good deal safer than what Warlocks or Mogu get up to.
I think the Voodoo is probably fine to keep around, even if some of the more fucked up practices might be banned.
>>46886007
Oh yes. Make sure to have the Echo Isles be their proper fucking size and give the Darkspear a major role in supplying nearby Horde settlements with food, since their islands are more lush and fertile than anything else in the vicinity. Give them a solid fishing industry with fishing ships too, since Darkspears have been islanders for quite some time.
It'd be a nice way to make the Trolls more relevant to the Horde. They could even work as the main seafaring race, borrowing how Troll Destroyers were the main ships of the Old Horde.
>>46880426
Night elves are going to be +2 WIS and +1 DEX, right?
regarding Troll Berserking, why not make it less limited but have it incur in some penalty? like reduced AC or additional damage recieved.
As it stands, it doesn't really feel like 'going batshit insane for a moment'
Maybe have it work like Extra Attack and keep it 1/day or make it a special attack that uses an action and works per short rest. Hell, even something like additional crit damage as half-orcs get could work well
I also feel Regeneration should affect magical healing too in some form. Why shouldn't it?
>>46887560
Yeah, the Darkspears still use voodoo, but it's a more tempered connection.
>>46887898
Berserking seems silly to keep when 5e already has an entire class based around the same idea.
Want your troll to berserk? Make him a barbarian.
The idea of a troll priest or hunter "berserking" seems silly anyways.
>>46888019
Well yeah, I think they would have to cut back on certain sacrificial practices that other tribes might engage in, but voodoo itself wouldn't be banned.
Hell, I imagine the bans wouldn't even be on voodoo itself and would apply to the magics of all races. Things like "no sacrificing intelligent races" would have an impact on Warlock magic too.
>>46880426
>No female Draenei cranial plates.
Is it wrong that I sometimes prefer the sharper and more alien look of this old piece of art over the softer design they ended up going with?
>>46888094
I personally don't disagree, but what sort of replacements make sense or be balanced?
I'm not really familiar with the rules of race design.
>>46888183
>Implying warlocks listen to your mainstream rules and regulations
Sounds like something SHEEP would do, not someone enlightened and superior like myself.
>>46888302
Whether they actually obey the law is irrelevant. What matters is that the laws probably wouldn't specifically target voodoo while allowing non-trolls to perform similar acts.
Of course, plenty of people, whether Trolls or other races, would probably ignore those laws whenever convenient.
>>46888495
>>46888495
Orgrimmar Warlocks have always had to keep their business quiet and out of sight; they're in the Cleft of Shadow for that reason I'd imagine. Not unknown, not impossible to notice, but out of sight and out of mind and if you kidnap Horde citizens we'll have to march in there and do something about it but if you keep to black market imports we'll look the other way.
The warlocks probably had some influence toward accepting Silvermoon and Lordaeron into the Horde; fel magic's much more okay there at the time they got in.
>>46889455
apparently everything is A-OK now.
>>46880426
Got any idea for subrace stats? I imagine you'd have to replace all of the Light-based racials.
Anyhow, it's kind of disappointing that Blizzard forgot that some Draenei think Shamanism is heresy and despise the Broken. Well, at least there's typically a lot of condescension!
>>46889455
how were black elves even able to have an empire? what did they enforce it with? bows and arrows, cats, and wisps?
>>46889814
That's at the height of Highborne power.
So Gratuitous arcane power fed by titan's blood.
>>46889846
>Highborne
oh yeah i forgot about them. that explains that
>>46889646
Even the better ones tend to patronise them and be quite condescending towards them. They treat lost ones like poor animals in pain. I really liked quests when the draenei subraces were interacting.
>>46889918
Given their whole elephant riding and male dance style, I'd represent them as a pseudo-caste system. Lost Ones are obviously their untouchables.
>>46890069
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTIIMJ9tUc8
I wish Blizzard had done more with the Warlords in WoD
>Ner'zhul dies in a 5 man
>Kargath is the first boss in the first raid
>Grom is a little bitch after the first time you see him
>Blackhand was cool but underused
>you don't even see Durotan unless you're playing Horde
>Kilrogg shows up consistently and is pretty cool
all of the villainous ones should have ended up as bosses in HFC in corrupted/undead forms instead of just Kilrogg
>>46891447
>orks get cucked
i cant complain about that
>>46885384
The world wonders.
>>46891836
>orcs getting cucked in the expansion about orcs
Blizzard made the mistake of only going half orc, unlike retard, you always got full orc
>tfw like Alliance as a faction way more than Horde
>tfw favorite races in the game are Forsaken and Blood Elves by an extreme amount
>like Human and Worgen a lot but not near enough
>tfw Alliance architecture is hilariously better than Horde
What's a guy to do
>>46892227
>>tfw Alliance architecture is hilariously better than Horde
not since Wrath
>>46892227
i forget im horde when im playing my blood elf all the time. i even run into alliance towns and bases on accident
>>46892288
Blood elves should have been an edgy alliance faction who hate eachother with the draenei for intra-faction comflict. Horde should have got ogres instead.
>>46892281
>mud huts and wigwams better than fortresses and paved roads
>>46892288
I think that's why I like Forsaken and Blood Elves so much because when I "get in to character" I can think like I'm only apart of the Horde as necessity.
>>46892367
>glorious steel fortresses are better than weak stone hovels
fixed
>>46892288
>tfw no High Elf faction for the Alliance
>>46892367
Too bad all that necessity is gone due to bad writing
>>46892449
Yeah I know. It's a bummer
>>46892413
>spikes and rocks better than pristine castles
>>46892349
Without Blood elves, the Horde faction would continue to have a serious population problem.
Plus, there would be enough drama with the Nelves, so you could ditch the Draenei.
>>46892518
horde should have had blood elves and alliance high elves
race for both factions instead of fucking pandas
>>46885384
>>46892050
their women evolved over the millennia to be as sexually attractive and pleasant towards men as possible in order to keep their population up
>>46887024
This...this does things to me that I was not prepared for...
More green when?
>>46892553
That's bullshit but I believe it.
>>46892535
>alliance high elves
Will never happen while Nelves are around.
Blizz has been trying to shoehorn them into the high elf role since cataclysm. Hence all the retcons.
>>46887103
Some other tribes like the Revantusk were mentioned to forego cannibalism as well.
I don't remember any mention of voodoo being banned, and considering Witchdoctors and Shadowhunters openly practice their craft in the Horde, I'm not sure any such ban still holds up.
The Shadow Priest artifact Xal'atath apparently refers to the "Curse" of Flesh as the "Blessing" of Flesh instead. It makes it sound like Xal'atath sees it as an improvement, rather than the sabotage most other sources paint it as.
It also says that the Drogbar are failed Titan creations and mocks the Titans for being such shit creators.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1897161-Legion-Shadow-Priest-Discussion?p=39981567&viewfull=1#post39981567
So yeah. it looks like the blade will be giving a sort of Old God perspective and commentary on events.
>>46892840
From the perspective of the Old Gods, it's a blessing. From the Titans', it's a curse.
>>46892840
>>46892943
also im pretty sure dwarves normally look about the way they do now. i read that normally titans make biological creations but in the case of azeroth and already being infested with old gods they tried to make protodwarves more resilient by making them stone
if this is the case then the curse of the flesh didnt do a whole lot besides turn titan creations into what they normally are
>>46893030
Well, the latest lore suggests otherwise. The Titans apparently weren't that great at actually creating life for themselves, only trying it from scratch on Azeroth, and they made Troggs on their first attempt because their initial design was too complex and overambitious.
So Xal'atath is actually right. The Titans are untalented garbage at actually creating life. The Old Gods were able to create things on the level of the Titan-empowered Keepers, even though the Old Gods had nowhere near the sheer power of the Titans.
>>46892943
Well, that makes sense. The friendlier Psychic Squid and Old God creations seem to have a "survival of the fittest" attitude, as well as an interest in gene manipulation and evolution.
Iron and Stone don't change, adapt, or evolve. They simply remain as they are. Only flesh can be improved through overcoming hardship, suffering, and death.
If the Void Lords ever took over, I'm sure all of reality would become a series of death worlds populated by mutated monstrosities.
were the frostwolves in azeroth green?
>>46893327
stasis vs change
that conflict gets a lot of attention in elder scrolls too
Im interested in running a warcraft game for my friends so here is just a mockup of races for now, kinda iffy on the balance as well. Skills aren't included as well just ability Scores and some traits. I'd love to get some help with these.
Pretty much keep humans the same or instead of the free feat give them a once per day free saving throw success usable after a saving throw is made.
IF Dwarfs get stoneform once per day (Poison immunity +1/2 AC maybe 5/10temp HP)
Orcs - Half-Orcs
Night Elfs - Wood Elves
Blood/High Elves - High Elves
Gnomes - Rock Gnomes
Tauren - +2 STR/WIS +2 CON Once per encounter make a CON roll to stun (or prone) any adjacent enemy (or creature if you want) for one round save vs con (or dex)
Troll - +2 Dex +2CON or +2 WIS
Once per day fly into a rage gaining an extra attack for 1 encounter or Your HD is increased by 2 for healing purposes during rests and you can regenerate limbs with one week(or month) of full rest.
Forsaken +2 WIS +2 INT/DEX Once per day eat a slain humanoid(or corpse) to heal 1 HD for free. You are immune to charm sleep and fear.
Dranei - +2 WIS +2 CON/STR (or maybe +2WIS +2CHA?)
Gift of the Nauuru - You know the cure light wounds spell and may cast it for free once a day WIS is your spell attribute for bonuses.
Goblins +2 CHA +2 DEX
Goblin Gadget Belt - You own a gadget belt once per day you can increase you athletics/acrobatics by 3 (or maybe just gain advantage) for any attempt to jump.
Once per encounter you may cast the firebolt cantrip. Your swim range is increased by 10. (Maybe give them barricade knowledge for goblin cartels and some shirts to make them better salesmen instead)
Worgen would be shifters I guess if 5e has the race already. If not give them +2 STR +2 WIS(/DEX?) Worgen form unarmed attacks get +2 damage or do 1 damage die higher (1d4->1d6 etc.) Can always count as lethal damage. Once per encounter increase your speed by 10 for 2 turns.
>>46893611
Pandaren - +2 DEX +2 WIS
Stunning palm - You call on your martial arts training from you youth. Once per encounter(day?) make a unarmed melee attack using your highest STR/WIS/DEX modifier target must make a WIS(/DEX) save or be stunned for one turn this attack does no damage.
Or
Pandaren Roll - Once per encounter(/day) you deftly dodge away from your foes as a free action you can move 5 feet in any direction away from an opponent or surprise them a vault through their occupied square to their adjacent side. This action does not provoke an attack of opportunit.
I think the Tauren racial should actually make targets go prone instead of stun and possibly be a daily power as well.
>>46893030
>>46893176
Yeah, the original lore in Uldaman that said Dwarves were from a standard flesh template used on other planets and Azeroth was the first attempt to make them out of rock seems to be retconned.
>>46893176
I wouldn't go that far, it took TWO of the greatest C'thraxxi threatening a large force of relatively defenseless refugee Earthen and Vrykul to make Tyr decide to activate his self-destruct, which 99% killed one and 80+% killed the other.
>>46893630
Daily Thunderstomp? That's nonsense, encounter or every few rounds, and since it only lasts one second and a round is usually 6 seconds it should likely not be a full stun, but should be available on enemy turns to interrupt spells and shit.
Also Trolls should have a +2Str option as well.
>>46893831
>>46893176
the power level of titan keepers seems really inconsistent
they bounce between the power of a full titan and the power level of a random monster
>>46894111
>The drogbar were once slaves to Neltharion, the Earth-Warder, and they were the ones who placed the goblin-forged adamantium plates on Neltharion when his body began to fall apart.[2]
didnt we literally see in a cinematic goblins putting on his armor? these retcons are getting silly
>>46894152
they look like big bobbos
>>46894164
>>46894152
That was the second time he needed armor, the Cinematic was his Re-armoringjust before Cataclysm. The Drogbar applied the goblin-built armor during the War of the Ancients and I believe it will be retconned that the creatures Rhonin called Trolls in the Novel were actually Drogbar.
>>46894164
They are a slightly bigger version of what Hobgoblins should have looked like from the beginning.
>>46893831
>I wouldn't go that far,
Well, the refugees had already fled and the C'Thraxxi only just came back from being dead.
Which is the other thing. Even the dead C'Thraxxi has been slowly regenerating, only being permanently slain when all of its essence is drained by Xal'atath. Old God things aren't easy to keep down.
>>46894311
Speaking of titans and things coming back from the dead I hope the guy from Uldaman can come back since he was a full out keeper, Ironaya too ideally. "Oh we were just testing your valor" is an acceptable excuse to me.
>>46887898
Was think of making NE +2 dex +1 str, so I could make them as an elf subrace. Although that would lead to them having the immunity to sleep spells thing DnD elves have, which doesn't make sense on Warcraft elves.
As for the berzerking, I'm thinking of rewriting it to be adding 1 to your melee and ranged attack rolls (ie. essentially +1 to hit) for 1 minute, but suffering -2 AC for 1 minute after the effect ends (can be used once per long rest). Probably easier to balance than extra attack, as well (and I agree that just one extra attack or one round didn't really feel like proper berzerking, but more attacks would be too powerful).
Another alternative would be to make it work like the barbarian ability to lets you get a bonus to hitting things but if you do, gives enemies bonus to hit you.
I'll still intent to keep it around as some form, since it's an iconic troll trait. A troll barbarian would be better at berzerking, but any troll can flip out and kill things.
>>46889646
Was thinking about adding the broken as a subrace but couldn't think of any good traits for them.
>>46895398
>NE +2 dex +1 str
Aren't both Trolls and Draenei stronger than them?
>>46895398
>Was thinking about adding the broken as a subrace but couldn't think of any good traits for them.
I wish they still had the whole super-assassin stealth thing going for them.
>Be Hordefag
>Replay WC2, 3 and TFT for the fun of it
>Haven't played WoW since middle of Cataclysm
>Figure what the fuck, let's see what they've been up to
>Jump over to Pandaria
>WELCOME CHAMPION LET US ATTACK THE ALLIANCE
>WELL THAT WENT LIKE SHIT, HEY FAT BEAR, JOIN THE HORDE
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO, ARE YOU A FAG?
>SHIT'S GONNA BE CASH ONCE WE DISEMBOWLED THE ALLIANCE TROOPS HERE AND CLAIMED THESE ALREADY INHABITED LANDS FOR THE HORRRRRRDE
What the fuck. I'm curious what the remaining zones will bring, but right now I'm unquestionably playing a murderous asshole, holy shit. How could the Pandaren ever consider joining up with the Horde?!
>>46897282
Don't look at the stupid horde, look at the sane horde
The Horde Chen Stormstout saw, the Horde the Huojin pandaren saw.
The Horde without Sylvanas, Garrosh, Kosak, or retarded Horde fanboys
>>46897282
Don't bother
at the end of you conveniently place the blame on the warchief and farm him for loot, thus making you a good guy.
>>46897339
Would have been a lot better if there were levelling questlines available to hordies that let them feel like good guys along the way. Especially if it involves hunting for hiding questgivers, to make it seem more rewarding, even if the actual experience/loot rewards are the same if not worse
>>46897339
Butbutbut... it was clearly me who killed those wounded, who massacred those workers, and god knows what else I'm going to do up until level 90. And it's defenitely me who's enabling those fuckers. If the player character just turned around and said "Nope, fuck this, this is insane" in the starting zone after seeing how the Horde just severely fucked up the forest and its inhabitants, it would be over for the Horde in Pandaria right there.
>>46897541
Heh, it's funny because that's what I did
I tried to grind up to 90 without questing, but that turned out to be really bloody boring, so I ended up dropping my main character that I had been using since BC and switched to the Alliance to feel like less of a jerk
>>46897949
I feel like the Horde Storyline makes no fucking sense. It's completely twosided:
The crazy murderhobo shit you pull only makes sense if you are playing a 100% greed Gobbo, or a just plain evil Forsaken or Blood Elf.
The whole cuddling with Pandaren part makes sense for the moderate to reasonable parts of the Horde.
>>46892682
like what kind of retcons? I know they made the nelf back off on their "No arcane policy" so you could have nelf mages with the new class combos. But what else?
>>46897282
The writers needed to force the Faction War for some reason, but were afraid to actually let the Alliance get their hands dirty.
What we got was a total piece of shit storyline that left no one satisfied. Most Horde players resent having to be the villain when they started playing for Thrall's Horde, and most Alliance are disgusted by their inability to take justified retribution and truly strike back against the Horde.
The Faction War was a hideous fuck up that everyone hated and was immediately sick of, and basically the reason why everyone despised Garrosh.
Unfortunately, some writers think that peace between the main factions is impossible because it's "War"craft rather than "Peace"craft, which is odd because I thought that wars against Demons and other hostile factions were wars too. It seems they still haven't learned their lesson and don't understand how sick everyone is of that crap.
>>46899772
They also don't seem to understand that conflict does not necessarily require open warfare
Which is weird, because they actually did the subtle relationships between not only the two main factions, but all the little groups that make them up and exist outside them, pretty darn well in vanilla.
Redid the troll racials a bit, although it's admittedly not very creative fix. Half-orcs in PHB get a more limited version of the barbarian "devastating critical" trait as a class feature, so I figured a once per day version of barbarian's "reckless attack" trait would do an ok job at representing berzerking.
>>46892227
The other way around to me, I love the horde as a faction but two out of my three favorite races are from the alliance.
>>46899772
This. SoO pleased absolutely no one and resolved none of the issues.
One of these days I'd like to run a campaign set in Gilneas. Maybe about the Alliance fighting a guerrilla war against the Forsaken or something.
Because goddamn Gilneas was the best starting zone and it's a shame Blizzard did nothing else with it.
>>46899897
Oh yes, that's probably my favorite part of Vanilla's storytelling. Honestly, the subtler bits of Warcraft's storytelling are almost always better than the more direct stuff.
>>46900733
Well, it officially ended the Faction War for two seconds, so that's something.
>>46900098
I can't say I currently like either of the factions. There are ideas that I like in both, but the current implementation is often lacking.
>>46892227
I find it funny how when WoW first began the Horde was clearly the better faction, because all of the Horde's leaders were good, reasonable people (Sylvanas aside), and meanwhile the Alliance had Fighty McChin and a couple of Literally Whos.
Three expansions later and now the Alliance has Genn Greyman and Varian Wrynn has undergone no-shit character development, whereas Thrall's fucked off to go sniff flowers leaving the Orc equivalent of a horny, angsty teenager in charge, Cairn Bloodhoof is dead, Jew of Jews Gallywix decides to join in, Sylvanas went crazier than ever, and nobody could remember who the Blood Elf leader was. Which left us Vol'jin, whose job was to tap a keg once a year.
>>46901486
You're forgetting that Varian didn't return until Wrath of the Lich King. Stoemwind was essentially being run by Bolvar and Onyxia for a time.
Also
>Magni
>Tyrande
>literally whos
Yeah, okay.
>>46901486
>>46901486
>I find it funny how when WoW first began the Horde was clearly the better faction, because all of the Horde's leaders were good, reasonable people (Sylvanas aside), and meanwhile the Alliance had Fighty McChin and a couple of Literally Whos.
Fighty McChin wasn't even a thing till the WoW comic in late BC.
You had Muradin, Tyrande, Mekkatorque, and fucking ONYXIA as alliance leaders.
Plus the Varian NPC on the elite Naga and Dragon island.
>>46901585
Magni and Tyrande did all of absolutely nothing during Vanilla and BC, Mekkatorque is the very definition of literally who and Velen doesn do jack shit in BC either, so he isn't exactly wrong.
>>46901714
Let's talk about the real joke here
Velen not doing anything in WoD, and them killing off his WoD self to prevent any time paradoxing
what a rush
>>46900918
It really is a shame the best starting zones can never be visited again.
Maybe that's what makes them special? Or maybe Blizz just hates us.
>>46901714
velen redeemed the entire blood elf race in bc
>>46901714
The thing is NONE of the faction leaders did much of anything until Wrath of the Lich King when they started involving them in the overarching plot of WoW. Thrall and Sylvanas were just glorified quest givers up until Wrath. Cairne did shit all in wow and just gets killed by garrosh in a shitty novel and voljin is pretty much the same until blizzard decided they wanted him to be the rival to garrosh. Gallywix hasn't even appeared in game outside goblin starting zone and Lorthemar remains a literally who despite his role in Mists of Pandaria.
>>46869680
>current lich king wants to play tabletop but none of the ghouls are unpredictable enough to have fun with
>revive arthas and see if sylvanas is available on weekends
>>46897331
In the Siege of Orgrimmar trailer, Taran Zhu even remarks on such: that Garrosh's Horde is not the Horde he knows.
>>46899364
It's not so much the night elves renigged on their arcane moratorium so much that the Highborne came back during Cataclysm; all night elf mages are presumed to be Highborne.
>>46901905
considering they were allied to several wizard-employing powers and the legion came back not once but twice it was pretty pointless to uphold the ban
>>46902025
It was out of panic and is basically German Guilt. The night elves were responsible for the cataclysmic arrival of the Burning Legion, chief of all Queen Azshara herself. They never want that sort of thing to happen again.
>>46902341
>German Guilt
It's also called the Hitler Hangover.
>>46902341
It would have worked pretty well if not for illybeans creating another well of eternity.
>>46901822
Vol'jin fucking transformed people into ghost wyverns with OP buffs in TFT.
Though that may have been because Zalazane was still on his side back then.
>>46890069
I actually like this idea a lot, especially if the old eredar notion of magic ability=power survives in their culture.
>Vindicators and priests look down on mages, mages look down on hunters and warriors, hunters and warriors look down on merchants and artisans, merchants and artisans look down on laborers and farmers, laborers and farmers look down on shamans and broken, shamans and broken look down on lost ones
>no one likes shamans despite their magical ability because they associate with the broken
I know it conflicts with the whole "holy light" thing going on, but it's a cool idea.
>>46901714
>Velen doesn do jack shit in BC either
The entire end-game goal of TBC - reignite the Sunwell, redeem the blood elves, and stop Kil'jaeden - was literally all Velen's idea. It was their just-as-planned goal to stop the Burning Legion from entering Azeroth and turning the blood elves towards the Light by restarting their original source of power.
>>46904831
>>46901714
Aside from Thrall visiting Garadar and Velen reigniting the Sunwell, I can't remember any of the faction leaders doing anything other than handing the odd quest until Wrath.
So what did the Scryers do after BC? Did they come back to Azeroth? Continue hanging out in Shattrath?
>>46905403
Probably hang around to piss off the Draenei.
>>46903662
Does it conflict? Looking down on others is hardly OOC for the Draenei. You just have to read Maraad's internal narrative about human refugees to see that. He constantly thinks of them as hideous and less than sapient, only able to gurgle out words.
The Light holds a very high place in their society, and almost all of their leadership consists of Lightwielders. Similarly, Mages make sense as the next rank, since they were the former highest back on Argus. Shaman and Broken being low is simply canon, as Nobundo directly says that a lot of Draenei despise the Broken for being disconnected from the Light and view shamanism as heresy.
Whether this is clearly shown ingame or not, it's there in the lore and present in almost every canon source which has them interact. In the Illidan novel, the Aldor guards just idly sit back as Broken throw themselves to their deaths right in front of them.
Underneath all the pretensions of humility, the Draenei are an arrogant race believe they're superior to others as the chosen of the Light. They're far from morally perfect, given how many of them were willing to join the Legion after losing faith in Velen. Giving them a social hierarchy, where everyone loves having someone to look down on, is something that seems perfectly natural to who most of them are.
>>46903662
But thats not true and it would be an incredibly hamfisted attempt at introducing conflict.
>>46905535
>Shaman and Broken being low is simply canon, as Nobundo directly says that a lot of Draenei despise the Broken for being disconnected from the Light and view shamanism as heresy.
Well no shit.
>suddenly people start to mutate into hideous beasts
>you have no idea what causes it or if its even contagious
>they lose connection to THE central thing of your race
>they become sulking, leprous wretches with gaping mouths, spiky teeth and no tails
>they start associating themselves with the religion of the people who genocided you
No fucking shit they would have their reservations about them.
>You just have to read Maraad's internal narrative about human refugees to see that. He constantly thinks of them as hideous and less than sapient, only able to gurgle out words.
That was after they housed and fed the human refugees for months despite being refugees themselves and they started revolting and calling them demons
>>46893489
Most of them were, you'd get a few that were brown, but all orcs that crossed over to Azeroth were green from just being near the fel. Even the ones that didn't practice it wound up getting green as a result.
Now when BC came out you find brown orcs, but those I guess were quarentined and kept away from the fel I guess?
>>46905535
>implying stormwind refugees aren't subhuman.
I also liked how the entire story was about anduin
>>46905742
I'm pretty sure they were looking down on the refugees from the start. Anyhow, my point wasn't if it was justified or not in any way, but rather that it very much is a part of them.
>high elves are shorter and skinnier than night elves
>high elves have an affinity for fire
>tfw you realize high elves are actually descended from goblins
>>46905931
Not more than part of humans. There is no need trying to force grimdark where it isnt.
>>46905869
Now I think of it, why the hell would people from the last bastion of human power would flee over the ocean to some backwater island. It just doesnt make any sense, much like all the homeless fucks in Westfall during wartime. Stormwind authorities would be working overtime drafting and pressganging them and the rest would be working in mines, shipyards and lumbermills at the very least. I also find it real bullshit that the alliance has the power projection and reach to build huge fortresses in Northrend and send armadas to Pandaria but they cant spare a reserve regiment to whip Westfall into shape despite sending their militia to campaign in Grizzly Hilly and WPL
>>46906027
the Alliance has to be on the same level as the Horde despite the Dwarves constantly getting diminished and Stormwind never getting their shit together, so the humans have magic lux ex machina powers that fix everything but only if they're not in the EK
>>46906027
Who said anything about grimdark?
>>46906099
Forcing in a caste system where they all look down on eachother is very grimdark-y. They are just nice guys, sometimes to a fault but even niceness has its limits. When some dickweed you have been clothing, housing and feeding for months, despite his kind having his own kingdom walks up to you and calls you eredar hitler you arent racis' for slapping his shit with your lollipop.
>>46906027
>Now I think of it, why the hell would people from the last bastion of human power would flee over the ocean to some backwater island. It just doesnt make any sense, much like all the homeless fucks in Westfall during wartime. Stormwind authorities would be working overtime drafting and pressganging them and the rest would be working in mines, shipyards and lumbermills at the very least. I also find it real bullshit that the alliance has the power projection and reach to build huge fortresses in Northrend and send armadas to Pandaria but they cant spare a reserve regiment to whip Westfall into shape despite sending their militia to campaign in Grizzly Hilly and WPL
I think it's in such poor shape BECAUSE so much got called away to Northrend and the Plaguelands.
Also, the people left in Westfalla re retarded, they have you kill cooyes and leave the meat while bringing them HAIR to mix into mudpies.
I think Varian just hates the retarded.
>>46906199
>Also, the people left in Westfalla re retarded, they have you kill cooyes and leave the meat while bringing them HAIR to mix into mudpies.
Westfall was shit in vanilla too, but Cata turned it into a retarded dustbowl meme because Blizzard are fucking retarded
>>46906269
It's hard to do a dustbowl if you also need beast creeps all around for people to kill.
And people would complain if EVERY mob was a wind or rock elemental.
>>46906185
I never said anything about an actual caste system, and certainly not one determined by birth unless you're a Broken or Lost One, but there's clearly going to be a strong social hierarchy even if they aren't openly dicks about it. Anyhow, the idea that Draenei look down on other races has been there for some time, and I don't even see how that's grimdark.
>>46906199
>>46906269
>I think it's in such poor shape BECAUSE so much got called away to Northrend and the Plaguelands.
Then why could not we have a slightly prospering zone, experiencing wartime difficulties. Fathers dying on the other side of the planet, sons getting drafted left and right, women suffering trying to hold up things, banditry rising fueled by draft dodgers, tensions rising as pacifists clash with warhawks etc.
But then we got a meme zone with a Miami Vice reference and le so epik jokes.
>>46906395
> Anyhow, the idea that Draenei look down on other races has been there for some time, and I don't even see
But they never do that ingame, ever. Even when as a race of literal immortals with the best mages, best priest, best paladins and best artificers they might have some ground looking people down. They dont even look down on the Scryers, the elves they hated, they questioned their loyalty, never their ability.
>>46906395
>actual caste system
it is a type of social hierarchy
>>46906530
>But they never do that ingame, ever.
It's not shown much ingame, but many other sources suggest its there. They aren't rude about it or anything, but they're occasionally patronizing.
>>46906584
Yes, but not all social hierarchies are caste systems. Priests or paladins being held in higher regard than mages isn't the same as being born into certain social positions.
>>46906635
So? How its weird when the 7000 year old priestess curing your booboo is patronizing?
>>46906778
I never said its weird. All in all, it's something that should be perfectly natural and reasonably justified given their history.
If the Horde's trolls are Darkspears from WC3 on, then how come the Headhunters say "Vengeance for Zul'jin" when you train them?
So, this is what Old Gods do to planets if they're left unchecked.
Looks pretty, but the purple is a bit bright.
>>46907287
because Zul'jin is a semi-legendary hero among most trolls until Vol'jin decided to go full race traitor
>>46907338
Well, it were the Darkspear that went race traitor
>>46907338
VENGEANCE FOR ZUL'JIN
I also like how even the troll PCs used to praise Zul'jin before they removed that emore.
>>46907305
It looks like shit, giving the planet a tentacle trump hair doesnt look good.
>>46887694
I want trolls to sail dhows
>>46907305
That art's a bit halfassed, it should be a network of smaller tentacles from numerous different spots.
Also what's it from? The Suramar raid? THe floor almost looks like Dalaran.
>>46907581
I think it's from the Suramar raid, and it's obviously rather half assed. Neon purple and a few tentacles on top is hardly an inspired design
It'd look more interesting if it had visible features like mouths, tongues, and eyes starting to form on it.
>>46907739
or maybe something else
Still best girls.
>>46908016
It was never in any doubt.
>>46908152
Just in case posting more best girls.
>>46908016
>>46908016
>>46908228
>>46908229
>>46908270
>>46908301
why are you posting pictures of pavement?
>>46908356
Because best girls
>>46908356
Because just look at all that glory.
>>46908471
This one is too srs and mottled.
>>46908504
kek
>>46908650
![60d3d0a35a44f5f7b4d9116a2b0af91d[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Er5Xf76.jpg "60d3d0a35a44f5f7b4d9116a2b0af91d[1].jpg")
would it be a massive improvement if the night elves and blood elves were replaced with dunmer and altmer? or would it only be an improvement?
>>46908721
it would just be different
>>46908721
It would be like raplacing Night Elves, Blood Elves and High Elves with Asrai, Druchii and Asur. Nope.
>>46908721
>elder scrolls
>good
A marked decrease of quality for any setting.
>>46908880
i think they do a good job of doing drow without the teenage edge. also altmer are the most fun elves to hate
>>46901822
Honestly, I kinda wished it'd stayed that way. Half the time the game feels like an interactive comic book about how awesome all these NPCs are.
I preferred it when that nonsense was confined to Golden's shitty books.
>>46909176
I really wanted a raid where the players canonically fuck up, die and some faction leader barges in with his elite guards and go OUTTA MY WAY SON IMMA FRAG THAT CHARLIE, kills the boss and rezzes you after. Only the LK fight sorta did that.
>>46909215
that's sort of how the Wrath version of Onyxia works, but canonically you weren't there at all, it was just Varian soloing her after she eats 25 random soldiers
![varian_wrynn_vs_deathwing_by_siakim-d3bgkn9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/t8EsUV5.jpg "varian_wrynn_vs_deathwing_by_siakim-d3bgkn9[1].jpg")
>>46909267
>varian used to be a take no shit badass
dont remind me anon. i hope he stays dead so they cant turn him into even more of a cuck in the future
>>46909338
OTTA MY WAY DRAGON FUCKING SHITS.JPG
>>46909215
>Only the LK fight sorta did that.
That was exactly what the LK fight was and it was fucking dumb.
>>46897282
It does get better after that. There's one zone where you actually go rescue a group of Pandaren refugees and set them up with a camp provided they work for you. Of course the Alliance has the exact same quest so it's not like it's any kind of redemption
Honestly you hit the nail on the head there. I have as much lok'tar as any other Hordefag bug the starting quests in Pandaria really bothered me. The Horde's appeal has always been their scrappy underdog personality. They're raiders, explorers, and hunters. They can be a little douchey but that's part of the point of Warcraft. So when I go into this strange new continent for the sole purpose of escalating this bullshit race war Blizz is shoehorning I just feel like a tool. And when I start bullying the natives to join in, I just feel like an asshole.
>>46909417
It wasnt dumb because of that. It was dumb because of the whole "I was just pretending to be retarded the whole expansion L0L!" thing
>>46909445
all of it was dumb for both of those reasons. They should have had Arthas kill you immediately and then had an even bigger lux ex machina save you like Mal'ganis or Sylvanas showing up
>>46909445
The latter days of Wrath were off the rails for a variety of reasons
>Let's stop fighting the Scourge to go play grabass at a Renaissance Faire
>A Faire where our best soldiers die in a stupid prize fight
>But that's okay it's Just As Planned gotta weed out the weaklings you know
>But Tirion thinks it's a terrible tragedy even though the whole thing was his idea
>Oh yeah there must always be a Lich King
>Because the horde of evil zombies is somehow more dangerous without an evil overlord telling them to kill everyone
>And the Lich King lets you barge into his house and kill his beer buddies because he just wants to kill you and raise you.
>Could've done that at any time during this whole campaign and his top scientist would still be alive.
>>46909445
>>46909568
Personally it would be cooler if Ner'zhul and Arthas were falling apart inside the lich king persona. Then you could have them split up and defeat them seperately. Alliance would get to 'free' arthas and the horde would get to 'free' ner'zhul.also my quest thread is up
>>46909786
According to the Arthas novel, the Lich King spent those five years between TFT and Wrath having some kind of argument between Kid Arthas and Ner'zhul in front of a shadowy figure. It ends when the figure kills Ner'zhul and casts Kid Arthas out, so apparently neither of them were actually in there.
Though supposedly Kid Arthas was just a manifestation of the guy's consciousness. I dunno. There are a lot of villains in Warcraft who should be given some dimension of depth and psychoanalysis. The Lich King really isn't one of them.
>>46909968
And that was retconned in an IC quest about arthas cutting is heart out. And that was retconned again in ICC.
They had no idea what to with the single most memorable and famous villain of the WC universe.
![767px-Erunak_Stonespeaker_tcg2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b3TH83w.jpg "767px-Erunak_Stonespeaker_tcg2[1].jpg")
>>46903662
>>46905535
>>46905742
Disregarding all the Racism Broken face at the hands of their supposed "superior" Draenei cousin- Can we just mention how fucking excellent the Broken Draenei are at what they do?
I mean in the sense that the Broken who've sort of cast off the hang-ups of no longer being Draenei have actually become quite successful and independent?
I'm mostly referring to the Broken living in Zangarmarsh who've become horribly skilled rogues, bushmen, hunters, shamans and fucking druids.
There's a distinct humility and integrity to the Broken that can't be found in the Draenei and I'm 100% sure it's why the Earthen Circle in both Azeroth and Outland have so many Broken in their ranks -not draenei- but BROKEN.
>>46910091
most of the Broken were the draenei's greatest Vindicators, which is why they're such good shamans, they serve the elements with the same fervent devotion they formerly reserved for the Light
>>46910067
I remember an early quest Alliance side in Howling Fjord where you enter some kind of spirit world and go about that Vrykul village. And you see Arthas just standing there. It was probably my first direct interaction with him of the whole expansion, and there was something indescribably menacing about it. I kept my distance, but a friend told me he does actually kill you if you get too close.
A later quest describes some Vrykul scroll where a "shadowy figure" clearly meant to be the Lich King dominates the background. That's what the Lich King always was to me. A faceless overlord who is responsible for all this awful stuff and who I can't really understand.
It was refreshing to see a Warcraft villain handled with that kind of tact and restraint. And depressing to see them slowly force this "tragedy" into the character.
>>46910091
>There's a distinct humility and integrity to the Broken that can't be found in the Draenei
Thats pretty bullshit.
The broken are almost all vindictive tribal assholes except the kurenai and the lost ones are even worse.
>>46910138
Arthas was the endgame of WotLK, that much was absolutely certain. So it's unsurprising that the expansion goes out of its way to build him up and show off his influence, even if he has to personally make appearances to taunt you. Every time he shows up, he's judging you and seeing how far you've come along.
>>46910138
Yes, thats how villains should be managed. Illidan was pretty great in BC too, always behind everything, always managing things as you pick up the crumbs you realize his empire is already falling apart, his underlings defecting, his sanity dwindling and when you actually do meet him face to face he is a delusional lunatic who still commands this whole shitshow. It was sort of fitting for outland, a desperate, broken wreck of a man burning up on a desperate, broken, burning up wreck of a world.
LK just kept showing up going MWHAHAHAHA I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME GADGET. Even drakuru was a better villain and he didnt even merit an instance for himself.
>>46910308
>Even drakuru was a better villain and he didnt even merit an instance for himself.
they should have had him show up in ever zone after Grizzly Hills getting more and more fucked up like the Black Knight
>>46910308
I didn't mind some of the Lich King's appearances. The aforementioned Vrykul spirit village quest was a good one, mostly because it's not even really him. Just a projection. Even Halls of Reflection really worked because he shows up and is just a force of nature. His entire encounter is just running away from him.
But there were a few appearances where he was being a total punk. Taunting players feels really out of sync with his menacing and stoic demeanor.
>>46910308
>LK just kept showing up going MWHAHAHAHA I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME GADGET.
That was the whole point. Arthas was egging you each time he talks to you. When he needs to demonstrate real gravitas, he does it relatively well. As >>46910404 points out, the Halls of Reflection was a great instance as atmosphere goes. The party has been skulking around the base of ICC alongside Jaina/Sylvanas, both find Arthas's inner sanctum and chase after him. After the party catches up, Jaina/Sylvanas realizes "holy shit, I can't beat him here because his power has skyrocketed; we need to leave NOW." So you and your NPC must make a fighting retreat out of the citadel, Jaina and Sylvanas chipping away at the ice wall in front of you, the party holding off the sieging undead, and all the way in the back, Arthas himself slowly lumbering towards you. Everyone knew that once Arthas caught up, it was over, so it was a furious and desperate fight to get out and get away so you can regroup.
Yes, it was just waves of enemies, but story-wise, HoR was a great instance, especially as the final 5-man before ICC itself.
>>46910516
>Arthas was egging you each time he talks to you
That just feels like something he shouldn't do. He's not Illidan. The guy has absolutely nothing to prove, especially to lowly PCs dragging bear asses back to the Argent camp.
>>46910516
Jaina OR Sylvanas, to clarify. Throughout the three pre-ICC 5-mans, each faction has their own NPC; the Alliance party follows Jaina, while the Horde party follows Sylvanas.
>>46910516
>i could kill you right now but im not going to!
>I will just let you wreck my everything, kill all my underbosses, and slap my shit
>lol jk I was just pretending to be retarded huehue i will gibe you death
HoR was like the only place where he was relevant. Even the wrathgate video made him look like a bitch getting tear gassed by cops.
