Thoughts on this?
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?68271-GW-New-Products-Politics-Rumors
I'd like to see what they could do with LOTR/Hobbit. I'd be interested to play if it got some support and models.
>>46859140
>Thoughts on this?
>>46859653
Was posting about the article, not the finecast.
>>46859140
>for AoS [but] the current fantasy range sales look healthier than before the change.
I call BS.
>Kirby in his new adviser to the board hasn't attended a single meeting now
the reins of power have passed to Kev Rountree, because they always seem to
be held when he is unavailable. Kirby also once loudly and publicly
announced no one played games and rules didn;t matter in a Throne of Skulls
tournament."
I hope that british cunt chokes on his chip butty
>>46859675
tactical blunder etc. etc.
>>46859140
Dain model when
>>46859769
Well lots of people were buying things... Specially the last chance to buy.
They're still trying to keep LotR around? While it seems like an ok system, have they ever made any money on it? Just what did they agree to in order to get that license? Should we take this as a sign that there actually are plans to make some number of Silmarillion movies?
"Kirby is now gone, and everyone is rejoicing because the new CEO plays the
game, won't force people out for telling it to him like it is (as Kirby did
to Alessio Calvatore after his presentation to the board where he told them
they were pricing out kids, which meant Jervis came back from holiday to
find out Alessio had resigned rather than be fired) and actively wants to
listen to people."
Rumours, wishlist... same difference, right?
>>46859653
>genuine old citadel miniatures are hard to come by in quantity
This is largely false. From old staff members collecting when they could buy weight to hoarders, there's a fuckton of old models out there. It's pretty easy to put together an army of Rogue Trader era stuff if you're willing to pay the cost, because a lot of the models were still buy-able for years after they stopped being produced for sale in stores and only through mail order.
Also we've seen so many good recasts, hell a lot of them have better quality control than GW/Forgeworld, that low quality is in no way a reliable guarantee of being genuine.
With older metal models there's literally no good way to tell if the recast is well made, because all the supposed tells of discolouration, pitting, double-mould lines, excessive flash, they're all present on the genuine articles.
>>46859140
>Unused really pretty Brettonian Plastics
C'mon, GW, you can figure out a way to use them.
>>46859140
It's was already revealed by Adam Troke at the last LotR/Hobbit Throne of Skulls event that FW is going to be doing a lot of stuff with both. I don't recall there ever being a mention of War of the Wing though and I can't see why they would go back to it after the Hobbit was nothing like it.
Honestly most of it just sounds like plausible things that anyone could guess mixed with pandering bullshit to make grognards want to desperately believe its true.
>>46860004
LotR was apparently pretty popular and a well received system. I could imagine it's possibly part of the strategy to see how well diversifying works.
>>46860088
>Believing shit like this
>>46859960
>AoS comes out
>shit's legit
>thank god FLGS oldfags prefer old WHFB editions anyway
>always wanted to do some Chaos mortals, but was waiting for a new edition because 8th wasn't fun
>it's now or never
>so far bought WoC battalion box, knight box and some warrior boxes
The sad part is that all this will be listed as AoS purchases and will go towards convincing GW that AoS is worth it. But I don't care. Voting with my wallet didn't work, so lets see how throwing money at them will. Either way someone's gonna shout at me for doing it wrong.
>>46860147
Eh, it's not really all that unbelievable. GW has apparently made prototypes and such for things they never did anything with before.
>>46860004
They did make a huge profit out of it when the movies were released but then sales dropped to rock bottom after the hype was over and they never really got over that blow.
Didn't play LOTR, missed it by a couple of years. Where LoTR seemed to focus on large army or contingents, did the Hobbit focus on more skirmish sized encounters?
I lie the direction GW appears to be heading. I'd like to see wider support for competitive players and rules that are maintained instead of this fire and forget shit that has seemed to be envogue for the last few years.
>GW are married to formations now, and will give the studio a brief of
things like do some formations for an army and how much the formation
should cost to buy the models for, ie a £200 formation.
this kills the game
>>46860741
>tfw 40k starts to tank
>GW Panics as their golden cow lays forth a death bellow
Post yfw 50k Emporer Strikes Back
>>46860677
From what I understand, LotR was similar to the Hobbit in that both were skirmish sized. It was only after LotR originally came out that GW tried to see if people were interested in playing big massive games with the War of the Ring ruleset.
>>46860741
>>GW are married to formations now, and will give the studio a brief of things like do some formations for an army and how much the formation should cost to buy the models for, ie a £200 formation.
If true, this is going to make the recasters serious fucking bank. Soon as a they come out and get played, players will be talking about what works and how overpriced it is; and they'll be able to undercut and sell a large quantity in one transaction that will be in high demand if they get their quality control right.
>>46861074
Shall we go as far as to think on the brightside and hope the new kid on yh4 block lowers prices?
>>46859653
Did I read the last paragraph of that article right?
>Buy expensive GW recast for cheap from counterfeiter
>Record all essential info on counterfeiter and transaction
>Recieve recast product
>Send model with expense report and info to GW
>Get reimbursed for postage
>Get free official replacement from GW
>???
>Profit?
Not that I'd do it but dayum I mean to those who buy yoyhammer because it's cheaper, that doesn't sound too shabby
>>46862565
well on the other hand I guess you're just paying for the GW product at yoyhammer price. Nvm I guess I did read it wrong
>>46860004
LotR caused them a lot of problems because they made so much money on it during the films they overdevelopped their infrastructure.
When demand dropped costs didn't.
It's the most popular line they ever created. Put 40k to shame.
>>46860004
And there will never be Silmarillion movies. The rights are held by different people from the Lotr & Hobbit (the Tolkien Estate not Hollywood Jews).
>>46860873
LotR was skirmish until Return of the king came out iirc. Helm's Deep scenarios were all skirmish based back in the day.
>>46860794
That actually sounds kind of interesting... except the emperor should be evil just so we don't get confused between AOS and 40k
>>46860148
I was gonna do an Empire army and was waiting for the 8'th edition to go away before investing in units. I have the hunch that a lot of people had that train of thought. On the flipside it has given me time to pick up old minis on eBay and check out historical ranges.
I figure I would have fun kitbashing Frostgrave minis with historical kits for Millitia and Flagellants. I'm also still waiting for Warlord Games to produce those Landsknechts.
>>46860741
Thank God that 30k doesn't use formations.
>>46863541
As a concept I don't think there is anything wrong with formations and in fact they could/do lend themselves to some cool stuff.
Practice is seemingly an entirely different story.
>>46863576
The horde rules in WHFB 8'th edition is one of the main reasons I hated the edition. It was basically a pay to win rule that basically meant that you had to buy more specific minis to compete against other players in the meta.
To me it made army building more rigid and boring.
>>46859140
>Bretonnians were going to be in the next WFB starter before it was scrapped
in favour of AoS, meaning there are some lovely plastics that made it to
prototyping that will likely never be seen now, including a hero on
hippogriff better than the Elf Prince from Island of Blood.
I didnt need those tears anyway.
Nothing GW does really matters, until they get their prices under control and write proper rules they will keep stagnating.
>>46863669
The Betrayal at Calth price is agreeable.
>>46863694
Specific deals for a single faction or two is not going to help matters.
You can almost buy entire starter sets or forces for other wargames for the price of a 28mm space marine captain, that is insane.
>>46860004
Down here in NZ it outsold Fantasy and 40k handily for quite a while. Mainly because the models were cheaper, but more then that so many people who worked on the films wanted to collect armies based on who they had acted as/designed and built for/animated/etc. I knew a guy who was an Uruk Hai at Helms Deep, and no prizes for guessing what army he invested nearly a thousand dollars into.
>>46863771
Yeah, I know. GW characters are so expensive that I always feel it's a waste of money to buy one instead of a unit box. GW's pricing model has really driven me into checking out other manufacturers just because I find their prices less insane. If I buy a GW character mini I just feel like I'm getting suckered.
>>46863771
That's probably because the Captain's sales are low due to only really needing one and usually coming with an unattractive preset armament.
The only generic Captain now available has what looks to me to be a pretty piss poor set of wargear that looks to be a pain to convert.
At this point you really are better off just buying a Sternguard, Vanguard, or Terminator kit and trying to kitbash a Captain or Chapter Master out of that.
>>46863771
I feel like I'm in this scene from Falling Down whenever I check out the prices of GW's new products.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2YRMixW9u8
>>46863669
>until they get their prices under control
Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW so it's not like there's any cheaper alternatives that aren't shitty historicals or Mantic.
You can get better rules and better games but the companies will still assfuck you on prices.
>>46860794
To be fair the end times weren't bad, it was just them wiping out entire factions and destroying the whole universe that was shit. Opening up a third setting akin to the Horus Heresy could be neat.
>Warhammer 41k
>Abaddon captured Cadia, Creed managed to bloody them enough to allow the Imperium to regroup in the surrounding systems and halt any further Chaos advanced
>Cadian regiments are now homeless, fighting for the hope of reclaiming their homeworld or conquering a new world to settle
>Creed leads a handful of surviving forces on Cadia in guerrilla actions against Chaos
>The main Tyranid fleets have begun to arrive, Ghazkull has gathered tens or hundreds of billions of Orks and has begun waging a war on all fronts against everyone, Terra is threatened, Armageddon is in perpetual war, and the Tyranids are being held in a bloody war against the Orks
>The Necrons almost entirely wake up, the Silent King leads a massive Necron army to the edge of the galaxy to destroy the Tyranids
>The Tau are nearly wiped out by the galaxy scale Waagh and the Tyranid main fleet, Farsight makes an uneasy alliance with the Tau Empire to try and ensure their survival as a species
>The Eldar are waging wars on all fronts to stop Chaos, the Tyranids, and the Orks, entire craftworlds are being lost in the massive scale conflicts
>A hole in Commorragh opens to the warp, daemons flood in and massive parts of the city are lost to the flood of daemons, some Dark Eldar flee the webway permanently, Vect gathers whoever he can in trying to drive back the daemons and close the hole
>The gains of Chaos piques the interest of the daemon primarchs, Lorgar leaves his world to lead his legion alongside Abbadon against the Imperium, Fulgrim, Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and Mortarion leave the Eye of Terror, each leading massive armies of daemons and chaos space marines
>The loyalist primarchs begin to return, Lion awakens and leads all of the Unforgiven in a massive war against Chaos
>>46862976
Yeah.
And since the emporer is evil, so is the Imperium. We need some good guys then. What about a rebellion of some description? They'd be trying to stop the Inperium from, uh, building a big death weapon, something so big it would be mistaken as a star if seen in the night sky. A Demise Sun, as it were.
Chaos and Space Marines don't fit the aesthetic anymore. Will be squatted.
>>46864029
>implying that the Perry brothers historical plastic kits isn't of higher standards than most of GW's latest fantasy kits
>implying that most of GW's fantasy minis in the last few years hasn't been visual design disasters
>>46864070
Chaos is the rebellion that has been going on since 30k.
>>46864029
>Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW
I don't know why people automatically assume this is the case and that it just simply isn't the result of running a business of a certain size.
It would behoove GW's competition to be less expensive than them, not match them.
>>46864050
Sounds pretty shit desu.
>>46864029
I have 4 playable Infinity armies that cost substantially less than any one of my 40k armies.
>hurrdurr price per model
>>46864113
The entire post was saying historicals aren't comparable to GW shit otherwise we'd all be playing historicals you moron. Perry Brothers are historicals, and are overhyped as fuck. Their details are nothing special because they're being sculpted by a right-handed amputees left hand.
You mean the fantasy range that's sorely outdated and sold so poorly it got turned into CAD-laden AoS trash?
>>46863541
You better believe 30k is going to get cheesed hard. It's coming.
>>46863918
But its still crazy, those captains should be £5 each not £18. Its not our fault GW is so stupid they want to run out plastic moulds for character models instead of sticking with metal.
And elite infantry should cost exactly the same per model as troops unless they are bigger or come with tons of bits.
>>46864029
>shitty historicals
Perry kits are both better and cheaper than equivalent GW kits.
>>46864130
Yes, but the aesthetic demands we no longer use them. How about we replace chaos with a plucky group of smugglers and psykers?
Actually, on second thought, we shouldn't call it "psychic" powers anymore. Too easy to steal. How about "The Power"? And psychers care called Jodi now because copyright. Also they have swords made of darkness.
>>46864178
>complains about GW prices
>pays $10 per model for metal monopose
1. A Kill Team army for GW would have cost you far less.
2. "But nobody plays KT" isn't an argument because nobody plays Infinity, compared to people who play X-Wing/Warma/GW
3. You need shit tons of terrain for Infinity so that's even more time/money wasted.
4. Enjoy Fire Team: the Game.
>>46864211
>the only other GW historicals are stupid historicals
>PERRY BROTHERS ARE CHEAPER AND BETTER
They're also historicals you no-reading-comprehension-having dipshit. You can't use Perry Bros shit to play 40k. Even if you tried to do IG. They're cheaper because the market won't bear a higher price because the demand for historicals is so low.
>>46864199
>companies actively shitting on customers of a product lowers sales of a product
What a shock.
And no, he has more sculpting skill in his claw hand than everyone at GW put together.
>>46864211
>GW is so stupid they want to run out plastic moulds for character models instead of sticking with metal.
Plastic is easier to work with and I imagine switching over to it solely makes things run smoother.
>And elite infantry should cost exactly the same per model as troops unless they are bigger or come with tons of bits.
In addition to how they sell, the elite models are usually just like this or can make two different units.
>>46864202
THere already is plenty of cheese in 30k, its just the kind that almost every army has access to so its not really a problem.
Besides Rites of War are already better than formations.
>>46864253
The demand for Historicals is actually higher than Sci-Fi or Fantasy miniatures, hence the large number of manufacturers and the lower price point
>>46864199
The Perry Brothers has done some of the finest sculpts that GW has ever produced, you philistine.
>>46864253
>Everyone else is basing their own prices off of GW so it's not like there's any cheaper alternatives that aren't shitty historicals or Mantic.
This implies you think historicals are shit in quality, it does not imply what you are rambling on about in that post.
>>46864325
Also, the death of WHFB and their new fantasy meme game has driven people to check out the alternatives.
>>46860004
>GW releases ASoIaF books for the LotR system.
Yea or Nay?
>>46864455
Well, it would let GW pull a GRRM and kill off the game in a couple of years without warning.
>>46864455
I think ASoIaF already has a miniatures system.
I'd be interested in such a game though.
>>46864455
I think just using the LOTR rule system with some houseruled army lists would work just as good. People have done some cool units for the setting with historical minis.
>>46864253
The idea that more people would buy GW than historical miniatures is a myth.
>>46860794
Eh, I would rather just have all the factions die and then 100,000,000 years later civilisation in space starts over.
>>46864216
Chaos could be the shady side of the power to act as a counter to the bright side.
You do realise they're going to be supporting LOTR and Hobbit, right?
They set up a new design studio to do this and specialist games.
>>46864455
I don't think LotR would lend itself to ASoIaF. The system very much emulates being a hero and favored by fate, where one man can pull it off against all odds and survive incredible injuries. ASoIaF doesn't seem to be that way exactly.
>>46865019
>every single hobbyist around the world is jumping up and down with excitement and you should be too
>>46865019
I'm not jumping up and down.
>>46864237
>kill team is a really poor game and no it wouldn't because you have to buy boxes of 10 guys at a time
>factually wrong
>literally free if you aren't retarded
>It an objectivley better game than anything gw has ever made (along with most non gw games)
You seem triggered
>>46865070
>>46865281
One of the easy go to attacks on GW is the fact they ended the specialist games line. Now they're bringing them back... that's bad?
Exactly what can they do? Tactical Marines in 2000 cost £15. In today's money, that's £22.50. So £25 for Tactical Marines, which have more options and weapons and heads and shit, isn't that bad.
So GW can do no right? Even if their models were free it'd be somehow bad. Oh well.
>>46865373
>gw can do no right
Did you know /tg/ is more than one person
Also tactical marines are a box the deliberately keep reasonably priced. Take ANYTHING ELSE such as 40 dollar single model clampacks for example.
Also tacs wew 22.50 after inflation for 30 in 1990
>being excited to see old games get dreadfleeted
why
>>46865281
Me either.
>>46865373
>Now they're bringing them back... that's bad?
It's not necessarily good though. This isn't the GW design team who made those classic games, this is the era of the chumps who made AoS and Dreadfleet.
There's also the chance that things might just be a limited release boxed set rather than a fully supported game, which would be terrible for all those old games, who still retain an audience amongst a host of good competitors because of the sheer amount of stuff that can be done with them in terms of teams/armies/fleets.
Maybe they will do it right, but there's also a non-negligible chance that everything will get royally fucked up. Getting hyped is fucking stupid and shows far too much faith in a company that has deserved none in many, many years.
>>46863657
8th Edition had some good ideas, but god it could be a mess.
It felt like nobody designing parts of that book were talking to each other at times. Hordes for instance: Okay, you have a massive regiment with a higher rank bonus than your opponent. So this means even if you lose the combat you roll against your Base LD, not by how much you lose the combat.
Good in theory, means that Goblin Horde wont insta-break when charged by 5 Elves with Sideburns, but what they should have made it was that losing that rank bonus means you lose the horde bonus.
Catch that horde in the rear or sides and it's fucked.
Matt Ward never should have been allowed to write the Magic Lores, that goes without saying. Cavalry should have got it's own special wrinkle, just like Infantry, Monsters, Monstrous troops and beasts all got.
Shields should also not work from the rear or sides, again flank charges should be important.
I dunno, the whole thing felt like it was one edition away from actually being a good game.
>>46865470
>Also tactical marines are a box the deliberately keep reasonably priced.
Along with almost all the other Troops choices.
>>46865514
>This isn't the GW design team who made those classic games, this is the era of the chumps who made AoS and Dreadfleet.
FW is working on the games, not the GW Design Studio.
>There's also the chance that things might just be a limited release boxed set rather than a fully supported game
They'll be fully supported if people buy enough and show interest.
>>46864253
>the demand for historicals is so low
You know upwards of 60% of wargames players are 40 year old dudes who play historicals right
You know supply also factors into economics right.
>>46865535
>along with all the other Troop Choices
>Deathwing is $60
>>46865514
I think the main worry people has is the fear that Specialist Games coming back is going to be the second finger on the Monkeys Paw.
What GW are proposing for the new Blood Bowl tournement in Notts for example isn't a good start.
Scheduling it so it deliberately conflicts with the NAF tournement isn't good either.
>>46865590
I said almost all
The fact that such alternative Troop choices cost so much is likely evidence that not enough people have an interest in making a Deathwing army.
>>46860069
>It's pretty easy to put together an army of Rogue Trader era stuff if you're willing to pay the cost
True. That's how I got my beakie army. Marines are easiest to do this with by far. The only marginally difficult models to get hold of are land speeders, bikes (including jetbikes), and assault marines. But terminators, basic marines, heavy/special weapons, and characters aren't hard to get at all. Hell, I've got so many chaplains I could start a new religion.
>>46865574
>They'll be fully supported if people buy enough and show interest.
Doubt.jpg
GW doesn't work on these kinds of games like they're some small studio that needs the funds of the current project to do the next. If it's going to be a full game, it'll be built as that from the start, not if people buy lots of whatever they put out.
>>46865595
People should be worried about that. There is zero guarantee of quality of anything. And there's so many small ways that the games could be messed with. Epic for instance could be a new boxed set, maybe something nice like taking the existing living rulebook thing, giving it a revision to trim out rules for whatever isn't in the boxed set and then bam, 10mm miniatures instead of 6mm.
>>46865019
>No Mordheim
They can go and die in a fire.
>>46865874
>Doubt.jpg
That is what FW said during their last event. They're going to put out the new Bloodbowl box and if it does well they'll look into doing other teams.
The FW Studio doesn't work under the same timeframe as the GW Studio.
>10mm miniatures instead of 6mm.
FW already said they're not reviving Epic and are instead doing it at a new scale.
>>46859140
>50% of staff not passing 3 month probation and
25% of staff left not finishing the year, which is an eye watering turnover
even for retail.
what does that mean? they dont sell enough shit or theyre autists?
>>46865533
6'th and 7'th edition had tight rules. 8'th edition just seemed like an experiment.
>>46865583
History also has better fluff than 40k and AoS.
WHFB kinda flirted with history, though, and I recall hearing that historical gamers liked the previous plastic Empire state troops. It's a shame that most of the new models they did halfway through the 7'th editon was just ugly and depressing to look at.
>>46866249
>I recall hearing that historical gamers liked the previous plastic Empire state troops
What alternate universe were you in?
>>46866061
GW are moving more and more of their stores to 1 Man stores, where there's only even 1 staff member present.
That's a very stressful role.
On top of that GW requires their staff to tow the corporate line to an almost Stalinist degree.
And then you have the actual job itself. Retail does have a high turnover rate normally since it's a largely thankless, difficult, low paid job. Add in that you're a games store and your average customers are a) Children b) Teenages c) Autists d) Gamers who hate your company and want to tell you why for 3 hours and you'll see why they don't last long.
>>46865590
>>46865645
Deathwing Terminators aren't Troops, and though they once were, it's always taken a pretty big masochistic streak to run all-Deathwing anyway. The extra $10 for a bunch of one-per-army bitz just makes it hurt that much better.
t. Deathwing player
>>46866061
It means nobody wants to work for them. And why would they? "One man stores" are a horrible idea. You're going to leave the entire storefront - with racks and racks of high-ticket, easily-pocketable merchandise and tables covered in expensive, delicate objects - in the hands of one poor bastard? Even the damn phone-case kiosk at the mall has two people running it.
See >>46866299
>>46866061
It means they're pruning out a lot of people early, and those that pass are not sticking around.
And it's likely due to shit pay, shit working hours with many shitty demands from above. Even more than you'd normally see in retail. A lot of the staff are unsuitable due to lack of familiarity with what the company sells (which is terrible in such a niche business area), and have no-where near the required amount of skill and experience to run a single-person store, let alone with all the crap coming from above that stops good people doing their job properly. Replacements have to be found quickly or the single-person stores don't operate, and that doesn't help in the slightest.
The corporate culture was saturated with Kirby's cult-like indoctrination bullshit where people who were good at their job but not completely walking in-step with the party doctrine were immediately gotten rid of. The management is stuffed full of those that are not good at their job but good at sticking to Kirby's requirements.
>>46866052
>FW already said they're not reviving Epic and are instead doing it at a new scale.
Image related.
>>46866061
Shitty job + shitty pay = little reason to not jump ship when a better job opening presents itself.
>>46866280
Not him but they did.
< Landsknect Tercio with mixed Warhammer Empire and Foundry Landsknects here for example.
>>46866299
>On top of that GW requires their staff to tow the corporate line to an almost Stalinist degree.
My local GW manager seems to have quite a bit of autonomy. She had no qualms with a person trying to set up a Mordheim league.
I've said it before, but I think a lot of the GW horror stories probably come from the UK.
>>46864455
Considering that Dark Sword holds rights to Song of Ice and Fire, and has Tom Meier as the main sculptor, good fucking luck.
>>46866280
I dunno, Anon. The scale and proportions on these are pretty reasonable.
>>46860004
From an interview I read a while ago, the creative team (who obviously wanted to make a LotR game for a long time) managed to dupe the sales side of the company into getting the rights for it by saying something to the tune of "If we dont get it, someone else will, and all the money they make from it will put them in a position to threaten our market share" and they fell for it hook, line and sinker.
>>46866617
Especially compared to the ones they made later. No wonder WHFB started losing players if this was the aesthetic standard.
>>46863576
There is nothing wrong with formations when it encourages you to field lesser used units, but most of them nowadays are stuff people will want to take ANYWAY.
>>46866617
I wish I would have bought 500 of these back in the day. If only I would have known that they were gonna go for the cartoony visual design for people with no taste I would now be having an Empire army. Alas, GW ruined the slick aesthetics.
>>46866816
Well, the thing it that there's plenty of formations that have lesser used units in them. It's just that those formation are fucking terrible because their special rules would have to be insanely good to make up for forcing someone to take a unit tax.
People tend to focus on the handful of broken formations because they're the ones that show up the most. If the underlying balance was better then Formations would be less of an issue. That's not to say that some Formations aren't inherently broken however; OSC is just going to be straight up rotten regardless of whether its components get nerfs, and I shudder to think of what kind of buffs my poor Orks would need to justify taking a Killmob.
>>46866888
Can't GW just write an Ork codex that is well rounded and playtested properly?
>>46867115
It's pretty clear by this point that no-one on the current design team really likes Orks, and so they don't really have any passion for writing decent rules for them. They also don't have a clear idea of what exactly Orks are meant to be; this is a very similar issue to what CSM currently face.
>>46867260
How are alien techno barbarians and evil demon worshipping Space Marines a hard concept to wrap ones head around?
>>46867474
One would think it's easy enough but no-one on GW's team is really into either faction, so they just don't commit much energy to writing the rules.
>>46867516
So they basically don't hire the right people for their studio then?
>>46867546
Well given that they hire based on ATTITUDE, that's not entirely surprising.
Honestly it's hurting them. There's really no reason for them to be putting out bad rules for models they sell, but under Kirby at least they never acknowledged that rules influenced sales at all. That may be changing, but they still don't have people on the design team for some of the factions.
>>46867599
I guess it's too much to ask that they do their job?
>>46866408
>no more deathwing land raiders
>no more FNP banners
>no more turn one deepstrikes
>smite mode nerf
Making termies cheaper but shittier was the worst thing 7th ed codex did.
>>46866052
>>46866451
Not like scale in epic was already fucked. It's probably for the best to start anew.
>>46867734
I think that GW just like to fuck Dangels in the ass with rules.
>>46859653
Funny how many of those descriptions fit finecast to a T.
Granted, most recasters aren't amazing either, but I'm pretty sure a kid with downs casting in his garage can beat Finecast.
>>46869019
modern finecast is better, especially for models that were designed for finecast and not re-cast, but I still wouldn't recommend it for anyone. It is really weird to work with... worse than Reaper Bones to be honest. Reaper Bones are also 2.50 a model, which is nice.
>>46872451
That's because modern finecast isn't finecast. They switched up what resin they're using and maybe even the methods used to cast the minis altogether.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Terminator-Chaplain
>This pack contains one Space Marine Terminator Chaplain - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in four components
"Finecast" is gone.
>>46872919
I thought that was just a marketing change the name "Finecast" had so much (well deserved) negativeness. I know the Empire Witch Hunter still says Finecast on the blister.
>>46873005
Nah they definitely have changed the mix, if I compare my old FC ghaz model to the zagstruk model I got not too long ago they're far different shades of grey - much like when they changed the plastic formula.
You don't really get resin models in blisters anymore (actually I bought some plastic ungors recently and they weren't in their original box either!), they're now in those white citadel boxes that simply have their contents name stamped onto them. Those still in blisters will be old stock.
>>46859653
Kek, my local GW manager knows we use recast and buys them himself.
>>46864253
>demand for historical is so low.
You must be 18 to post on 4chan.
Historical prices are so low because no one can copyright history. So unlike GW, which will sue the fuck out of you for making a shoulder pad, historical companies survive and thrive solely on who makes the best value or quality kits. They can't charge $30 for a character no matter how amazing because the historical community knows thats bullshit and they'll buy from someone else. Also, historicals don't have Stockholm syndrome and realize that they can use models from whoever the fuck they want as long as they're roughly the right type. GW gets away with charging $40 for space Marines because only they can make space Marines, and have convinced many players that they can't possibly use other heavily armored sci fi satchel with 40k because reasons.
The fact that so many historical companies exist out there is proof enough that historicals still have a market. Note that many starting miniature companies start with historicals of some kind, or dip their toe in it because you don't need rights and there's always people buying, especially as flames of war and Bolt action have gained popularity.
>>46865583
[Citation needed]
>>46864050
Sounds shit... if anything, according to the sales, Tau will become a major player.
>>46866039
>mfw you can't read
>mfw the video game is better
>mfw that would basically just be a book since models are already available
>oh wait there are still the rules to play it, everywhere on the internet
>>46874865
>convinced
40k marines do have a strong aesthetic that lots of people like though.
>>46859653
I still have my 2nd ed ork army and my 3rd ed additions as well as a few more modern ones.
Now i have to worry about some shit monkey kid who wasnt even playing during 2nd ed giving me the stink eye?
Fuck you GW, i may as well counterfeit now if ima catch flack for it anyhow, I paint my shit so its not like anyone will tell anyhow.
>>46872451
Finecast sucks period unless youre ok with bendy nerf weapons, the blobby detail is not the whole issue.
>>46859653
>car boot sales
I have not seen a single Warhammer model at a boot sale, do they really think this is an issue?
>>46875193
Well, nobody will care outside of a GW store.
>>46875342
I've seen a lot of warhammer quest and space crusade, but yeah hunting for old minis is futile at car boots I've found. Everyone either knows their worth or throws them away it seems.
>>46875045
Actually, they just stopped making the plastic human henchmen models they used to have in the Empire range.
I'm thinking of just getting plastic Frostgrave minis and kitbashing them with historical and old Empire bits.
>>46867730
Yes. In a creative job, it's inevitable the areas you have no interest in will get less attention. That's why you hire people with diverse interests for that, whereas it doesn't matter if your accountant thinks orks are shit or not.
>>46875949
But then, why not play Frostgrave?
>40k will get a new edition in September. It is a minor clean up of the current rules
>GW are married to formations now, and will give the studio a brief of things like do some formations for an army and how much the formation should cost to buy the models for, ie a £200 formation.
At least it's nice to get confirmation that 40k will never be worth playing ever again.
>>46865535
$50 USD Firewarriors
>>46865535
Not in WHFB. It's what fucking killed it dead.
>>46876293
They're different rulesets that, while similar, do things differently.
>>46875949
Prepare for dissapointmemt. The frostgrave henchmen do not mesh well with any other model range. Very awkward proportions.
>>46876449
That's why you have greenstuff.
>>46860191
The only thing I can think of is the eldar jetbike that went unused for like 8 years or whatever and people had actually seen the prototype rather than just a no source rumour.
>>46876293
Why not play both?
>>46860677
LotR SBG scaled really well and had rules for big and little battles and tons of scenarios whether it be stuff like Aragorn fighting the ring wraiths on Weathertop or fuckhuge siege battles like Helm's Deep. It's basically everything AoS should and could have been.
>>46876524
I am dubious of the average neckbeard's skill at painting and sculpting.
I have seen maybe 4 competently painted armies and several that are chrome krylon monsters.
Also the proportions are very off.
>>46863821
Uruk-hai pikemen looked so good all ranked up.
>>46876610
That depends on what you kitbash them with. The scale seems to be around the same as most 28mm historical minis. Naturally Warhammer bits will look retarded on them because GW don't do reasonable proportions.
>>46864455
Nothing all that interesting about the ASolaF setting so no.
>>46866816
Why not design a game without shitty units nobody would ever take. Just a thought.
>>46859653
>oy vey don't buy cheaper second hand or online they might be fakes!
>>46876610
My painting makes up for my sculpting abilities. I will also do this entierly for my own personal enjoyment. Some of the stuff people kitbash with historical bits looks pretty sweet.
>>46865019
Bringing back as in old minis getting made avaible again? Should I be cautiously optimistic or will GW pull another blunder and bringing back means "Let's put a new cover on the old rulebook and sell it for current prices"? I'd kill for affordable Necromunda minis.
>>46865535
Orkz want to have a word with you.
>>46859140
Thoughts:
1. Is a GW product
2. Will be overpriced jewshit
3. Not worth getting involved with
>>46876831
I think they are gonna release them as plastic boxed games and the rest will be resin.
>>46876831
>I'd kill for affordable Necromunda minis.
I hear ya. You could kitbash Orlocks, Goliath, Cawdor and Van Saar with some effort, and Heresy Miniatures had their not-Delaque range, but good luck getting Eschers.
I'm cautiously optimistic, though. The Genestealers from Deathwatch Overkill is very much a love letter to the old models, and are really nicely sculpted. They're also not quite as busy as some other recent models.
If we get that kind of attention to detail and love of the old models, I'll be happy.
>>46859653
>I own a full metal Valhallan army
Fuck you GW, and guess what, all second hand
>>46859653
>we need you to snitch on recasters
I see they're blaming consumers again for their shitty sales figures. These fucks need to understand their own "target middle-aged upper-middle class miniature collectors in first-world economic powers" policy is bad for business.
>>46876976
>Genestealers from Deathwatch Overkill
Just checked them out, they look fantastic, the Magus model and the Hybrids especially. Was out of the loop for a year or two, didn't even know about DO. Whoever sculpted those should definitly put to work on new Necromunda minis, if GW is even going to bother with them instead of just re-releasing the old models (if they do that at all).
>>46877020
>again
I'm pretty sure that White Dwarf came out years and years ago now.
>>46876976
The Horus Heresy boxed game is also rather modest in design compared to the other Space Marine kits GW ha been recently doing. It makes me mildly optimistic.
>>46864050
>just 1-up the things we got.
how is this any different from what 40k lore is allready doing? Doesn't sound good at all
>>46877834
I think the problem is that people want 40k to be a story. Which is retarded for the same reason people would want DnD, Shadowrun and Monopoly to be stories.
It works best as a platform for stories and this is why Black Library treating the Horus Heresy as a story sucks hairy balls. They turned a mythological event that worked as a mysterious past for 40k into an angsty soap opera for teens with daddy issues.
You don't want these people to advance or flesh out your setting.
>>46877971
>You don't want these people to advance or flesh out your setting.
exactly. that's why i wanted to know from anon, why he just wrote the story like GW would anyway.
40k could use a little cooldown, so some factions can regain stability and maybe the tau can expand again. Not just magically make every faction have even more massive conflicts with magic reinforcements.
I just want them to stabilize the Setting and then leave it alone for some time.
>>46877971
you're alright Anon, you get this shit.
>>46878243
Some BL writers doesn't even seem to understand that 40k was born out of satire against religion and authority. They seem think of it as a completely sincere setting and that the Imperium is a good thing.
>>46859140
>Kirby is gone
>more LotR support
Iwanttobeleve.jpg
Is this the end of GW as we know it?
>>46879206
Well, I feel fine.
>>46878661
believe brother. at the LoTR throne of skulls, they showed wip of Dain and have 4 years worth of releases planned currently. Even better, is that Adam Troke interacts with the community of the GBHL facebook page constantly. This is the direction we want.
>>46876556
Mordheim campaign rules are even more wack than Frostgrave.
>>46859769
Me personally: I always loved the WHFB models, especially the older ones. AoS isn't perfect but it let's me play those models, hence why I started collecting a few Beastmen and Undead. A lot of 40k player did the same. never really liked Fantasy rules or the modelrequirements, but digging the models.
>>46876449
>do not mesh well with any other model range
But I have seen them successfully kitbashed with both GW kits and historicals.
>>46878657
>the Imperium is a good thing
what kind of insane people do they hire ... ? Oh wait, it's GW
>>46879442
Yeah, but isn't Frostgrave easier to get into than Mordheim?
>>46879887
Well, UK has some weird politics and views. So someone probably view the Imperium as an ideal nanny state.
>>46859653
Holy freaking hell, if I didn't like GW to begin with, this really pushes me over. Yes I've bought recasts, just because I enjoy old,out of production models. But 90% of recast I've seen are actually the same or better quality as GW, for 10% of the price.
This whole article could have been written so much better. I really see them as witch hunter with torches in their hands proclaming how recasters should be exunged, castrated and hung, and all people buying of them should have limbs cut of for even entertaining the idea of buying it...
The fuck GW
>>46859653
We even hire private investigators to obtain evidence for us. In most cases the villians do not know that we are watching them. Indeed, we will soon be bringing more counterfeiters to justice based upon the evidence that we have collected. Our hobbyists provide us with eyes and ears everywhere so information is not to hard to come by...
This all has some very high level KGB/Gestapo kind of vibe to it... GW is losing it's mind if they think this is the way to win people over
>>46865535
>reasonably priced
>guardsmen come 10 to a box and are some of the shittiest plastic models in the range for $30
>the box doesn't even have all the weapons they use and options
>when many other companies are able to put out plastic infantry in the range of $30 for 30 guys or so, and have better detail
>their heavy weapon teams come 3 to a box for $40, for a team that at most will cost 105 pts
>only way to get special weapons is the HQ boxes that cost $25 and aren't even in scale with the regular infantry
>reasonably priced
What the hell are you smoking, because I want to try it
>>46880356
Not to mention that the proportions on the Cadian plastic makes them look like giant 7 year olds with grumpy man faces.
>>46859653
Guys, this article is from fucking ages ago. I remember reading it. The bit in the bottom left mentions White Dwarf 300.
>>46880190
Fuck off. Any company should defend themselves from piracy. How would you like it if you made a product and then some chink ripped it off and made copies. You act as if GW should be thanking you for buying from Chinaman.
>>46880133
fuck off. that article is about 15 years old you cunt
>>46859140
>http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?68271-GW-New-Products-Politics-Rumors
Eugh, hopefully they'll at least shit out some good formations (plural) for Orks to get them back in the game.
Though AoS is crap, if they somehow managed to make it somewhat playable that could be something good, though it would require almost complete rewrite of the rules.
>>46880797
GW Shill detected.
I know you're butthurt that your stocks in GW are doing bad.
>>46880797
>>46881001
If you can't see anything wrong with what's written there, there is something wrong with you. Defending an IP and product is good. Printing an article how you're going to capture ale evil people who hurt you are bad. Especially if it's as cringeworthy as this.
Nice samefagging
>>46881121
Kill your parents. Kill your parents. Kill your parents, then, kill yourself!
>>46881121
This.
Piracy is a service issue that was largely neutered (still present, but far less of a threat) for movies/music/games by a change of business model to give quicker, easier and cheaper access to the product than before. And by fucking 'eck does GW have some major service issues that should be address in concert with protecting their shit.
But they won't.
>>46881198
Wauw, you really are employed or have some kind of money invested with GW don't you?
>>46880797
>>46881198
You really do have autism.. Sorry, we never meant to hurt your waifu GW
>>46859653
Now this article actually has me curious on the best place to find and buy reprints of models, if only to spite GW.
>>46881693
r/yoyhammer
>>46865595
>What GW are proposing for the new Blood Bowl tournement in Notts for example isn't a good start.
More info pls?
>>46866249
>It's a shame that most of the new models they did halfway through the 7'th editon was just ugly and depressing to look at.
Does that correspond to when the Perry twins left GW?
>>46881693
I do have an adres, but I don't know how to pass it through to you, especially because this thread is full of GW shills
>>46875144
He's right though in that many gamers have such GW tunnel vision they won't even consider a scale besides 28mm even when it's objectively the wrong scale for what they want to accomplish.
>>46882403
Its gotten so much worse the last few years as well, routine big kits for fantasy and 40k, massive armies
The rot really started in 3rd ed but even that was nothing to the last couple years
>>46877971
This is where the hitching about how the plot doesn't move forward comes from: people that just read the books so have no interest in 40k being a vauge setting designed for players to stage their own narrative in.
>>46882264
I guess it might also have something to do with GW wanting to impress the newly formed WoW audience at the time? Which also thought that Warhammer was knockoff of Warcraft.
>>46880190
They're hoping to inspire the fanboys to feel like they're super secret investigators who will then go and do the legwork for GW's legal team.
>>46882285
Get a disposable email from https://grr.la/mail/ekkaj
>>46859653
>October 2005
Maybe we should look into the Hindenburg Air Disaster while we're at it.
>>46876342
I vaguely recall that not being much more than they used to cost. At the very least you can argue there was a reason for any increase since the kit went from being able to build one unit to two and includes the turret.
>>46876438
No, what killed Fantasy was it's army building system, it's rules favoring large units in one way or another, and someone thinking it was okay if the game started to fall apart under a certain points level.
No one wants to have to continually buy Core choices due to a a combination of the rules requiring it in order to use other models and said rules also making units below a certain size worthless.
>>46876831
If they do a new game they're going to do new models, there are already examples out of a new Orc model in the Bloodbowl set and a prototype of the a Human model.
Only for the Middle Earth SBG are they going to bring back old models I think.
It should also be noted that the flyer isn't a confirmation of anything. FW has only mentioned doing BB, Middle Earth, and some new form of Epic.
>>46876849
Again, I did say almost.
Kits like Ork Boys could be the result of not really caring about the rules or having a worse understanding of them (If I recall correctly, sticking 10 Boyz in a Trukk was not the greatest.)
It could be a result of the times too. When they first came out the Ork Boys kit was $22 and AoBR was $60. Maybe they figured people would buy or split the starter set to get Boyz or maybe they viewed $44 as an acceptable price to get a functional unit, heaven knows they seemingly thought something similar with regards to how Core in 8th Edition Fantasy worked.
>>46882264
No, pretty sure they only left relatively recently.
>>46882264
They worked mostly on LOTR/Hobbit models and fully left in 2014
They did work increasingly less on fantasy/40k while they were doing Middle Earth models, they also dialled back in general to work on Perry Miniatures
>>46864253
>the demand for historicals is so low
I get that you don't play them. Maybe your friends don't. That doesn't mean the demand is low. It just means you and your social circle are not representative of miniature wargaming as a whole. DBx ALONE probably has more players than 40k and Warmahordes combined.
>>46882285
Yeah, That's understandable, I do appreciate the advice though, after reading the catalogs there and seeing peoples results, I think I'll easily know where to get certain models from. Thanks anyway. :D
I would suck Perry's dick if they made skeletons.
>SUCK
>THEM
>DRY
>>46883825
Anon, contain yourself, you're scaring off the sculptors.
>>46883825
You could give them a big hand
>to soon?
>>46883874
SCULPT ME SKELETONS AND FREE THY BONERS, PERRY BROTHERS
>>46883700
Jesus no, 40k has players in the high hundreds of thousands at any one time, no single historical game can manage that.
>>46868785
>fuck in the ass
>Dark Angels are strongest they've ever been
Stay mad Deathwing. Ravenwing for life.
>>46884074
m8, you know historical gamers don't go the flgs and shitpost on 4chan right.
>>46882691
Makes sense, the fanboys willdo it for free
>>46884672
This is a way to explain why those 40k tourney houserules exist, and why people shill for them.
>>46884211
>Dark Angels are strongest they've ever been
lol
>tricked by a lesser demon into trying to kill a fellow founding legion because of how inept they all are
>Crimson Sabers slap their shit when they're caught with a fallen, so much so they instantly flee the system with their tail between their legs
>Crimson Slaughter mercilessly butcher them and steal their geneseed
no mate, in fact I can't think of a single founding loyalist chapter that isn't as fucking embarrassing as the Dark Angels
>>46884211
>Dark Angels are strongest they've ever been
>Hi /co/ i didnt play in 3rd ed
>>46885199
They also bombarded their own planet so hard that it ruptured because of butthurt.
![666890-Escher,%20Ganger,%20Inq28,%20Inquisimunda,%20Inquisitor,%20Insquisitor%2028,%20Kitbash[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bRtmQSp.jpg "666890-Escher,%20Ganger,%20Inq28,%20Inquisimunda,%20Inquisitor,%20Insquisitor%2028,%20Kitbash[1].jpg")
>>46876976
>good luck getting Eschers
Wyches m8.
>>46882506
And then you have the GW head of canon organization saying "this is our setting, our story, other people can use the setting as long as they use it correctly."
>>46885821
That sounds too silly to be true. They wouldn't be socially retarded enough to tell people that they are enjoying the hobby in the wrong way, would they?
>>46885686
Nice. You make that?
>>46882403
>they won't even consider a scale besides 28mm
>mfw playing WHFB in 15mm
>even putting 3 minis on a single base, armies cost fuck all
>terrain is a shitload cheaper
>epic creatures can actually look epic without being the size of a shoebox
Best scale, 28mm a shit.
>>46886343
You forgot
>Dat ease of storage
>>46879483
Dude, in the actual market exist a fuckton of skirmish games for any kind of miniature, SoBH and Frosgrave for example, than let you play with WH minis without having to put with a bad system like AoS.
>>46884074
So because you don't know what they get up to, you have decided that they don't exist. Nice logic, mate.
>>46860741
I've been out of the 40k loop since 4th ed but what're these formations things and are they needed to play the game?
It is fucking stupid, though, they need to get pricing under control. I checked out the site the other day and while the Blood Angels models look pretty nice, they seriously do not have to be that detailed and extravagant.
>>46887448
I stopped playing just as 6th ed was introduced and would also like to know this
>>46887435
I know what they get up to pretty well, being one of them.
DBx is largely a game for the increasingly dwindling old end of the crowd, and not even all of it because of the many, many alternatives. Good alternatives at that. 40k Dominates the market, rivalled only by XWing in sheer numbers in a way that to even try and compare it in terms of players to anything else is futile.
Even the other big things like Warmahoards, Flames of War and Bolt Action don't compare to the numbers that GW pulls.
DBx is down there with stuff like Field of Glory in terms of amount of players. Hell, the FoG series in particular ate a big chunk of DBx's player base.
>>46887448
A formation is like a certain composition of one or more units that get special rules and buffs for free. They can be several different kinds of units.
>>46882691
It doesnt matter if theyre in China.
Im thinking maybe they suspect some of the recasts are done by Chinese ghost shifts and are trying to narrow it down maybe?
The info theyd get from people is literally worthless, I guess i shouldnt be surprised GW didnt think this through.
>>46866617
I'm so glad I've still got my spearmen from the starter set for 6th? I think it was. They look so nice. I really dislike the look of a lot of the newer models.
>>46887810
Ahh. So you don't really NEED them to play?
Tbh, my friends and I were just gonna play using the 3rd ed rules we still have left over from when we were super into the hobby in middle school. Meaning like a couple squads, maybe a tank and a hero.
In the past 5 years I've only played a couple games of Kill Team and Warmahordes each. Kill team seemed pretty fun.
>>46888261
3'rd edition is much less of a mess of a game when it comes to the core rules.
>>46888189
At least I hope Warlord Games will get around to release the plastic landsknecht minis they bought from Pro Gloria in some kind of near future.
I'll gladly take them over GW's Freeguilders - as they are called now.
>>46888916
Which core would you say is the least messiest? Pretty sure at least one of us also owns a copy of rogue trader as a handmedown.
>>46888971
Those are the sexiest Landsknecht I've seen.
>>46889453
I seem to recall that 4'th edition was doing fine, or at least it wasn't doing terrible, until the Space Wolves codex screwed up the balance.
>>46889923
4e actually was the last 40k core book I actually read. I'm sure I could find a copy somewhere lol. The newer edition looks so bleh. As do all the hardcover codices.
>>46885199
Getting tricked by the Changeling isn't really something to be embarrassed about.
