>implying Menite jacks aren't complete shit without the choir
Way to go PissPants

Does anyone else think Mk 3 is trying to make heavy beasts obsolete?

Lowering thresholds, getting rid of fury management.

Light beasts you can let frenzy and it's not a big deal. With gargs, you've likely just got one of them and so not a big deal taking the fury off. But if you get a bunch of heavies instead of a garg, you can't put fury on all of them because you lost the ability to manage it effectively, they frenzy easier, and you can't afford to shut down a heavy with frenzy like you can with a light.

On the other side of the spectrum, warjacks are more efficient now without risk.

>>46826578
They still have choir for damage buffs, and got an across the board +1 mat (and a few got +2 mat) to compensate for choir not having the +hit.

>>46826600

Where did they talk about lowering thresholds?

I know they said fury management would be harder, but I don't think it's getting removed entirely. As a Legion player I can see Forsaken and Shepards having a cap on how much fury they can rip off a turn.

>>46826712
On the forum.

>I am presently working from home away from the current rules and my database, so I'm working without a net. But I will try to shed a little light for you. In our early evaluation of the game as we went into this new edition we determined that frenzy was too predictable. It seldom happened and did not seem like the balancing factor against running beasts too hot that we were looking for. In short, that risk management aspect was just not there. So we we slightly reduced THR stats were it seemed most reasonable, with the most savage beasts having the lowest THR and the most disciplined having the highest (Nephilim and Titan Sentries come to mind as high THR models).

>We also reduced the effectiveness of the Condition special rule so that instead of being able to add or remove any amount of fury, the conditioning model could only add or remove 1 fury point.

>>46826620
Where did this info come from? Were there more leaks since the trenchers etc?

>>46826829
There was a 45 minute primecast episode today that did a faction by faction breakdown of stuff.

>>46826829
I think it's in the new primecast

http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-31

>>46826867
Anybody can give me TL;DR?
Will Cryx be the new Skorne?

>>46826620
Actually: http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249502-Primecast-Episode-31/page5&p=3479311#post3479311

>>46826903
They said nothing about cryx other than the fact that they'll have more warjacks. But there was recently a box sent to BOLS with a seether/inflictor sprue that implied they're 13 points.

But they did say, with regards to skorne, that immortals now have souls.

>>46826903
No, Menoth will be.

Really hoping Skorne gets a lot to compensate for the big hits we've taken. Because right now, it's looking like PP is throwing out the idea of heavy beasts and heavy infantry in the trash. Considering that's been the staples of Skorne until recently, I'm nervous...

Should be "cry baby Menoth edition"

I'm already seeing tons of bitching on the forums.
Did people really think having incite on everything was going to stay with jacks being buffed?

I'm excited for the ROF change.

>>46826938

Immortals with souls is definitely a mixed blessing. What is telling is that even with the mk2 skornergy, you were seeing a lot of Immortals and Ancestral Guardians lately. It was worth it just to not give that cryx bastard across the table resources to beat you with- so long as it was some kind of fair game, skorne has a chance.

I would have preferred some kind of weird mechanic that made Immortals help out Ancestral Guardians in a way that made up for not getting souls from them, honestly. Something that made Ancestral Guardians worth their points even when there weren't any living models on the table. That or altering Ancestral Guardians so they start the game with souls on them already, that certainly makes sense in fluff (and its how IKRPG did it, Revered Companions).

>>46827280
Well, I think they're pretty overtly meant to be taken with one of the Zaals now, to make use of direct spirits.

>>46827081

How? If anything, beasts will be perfectly fine.

You are way overreacting. They've already stated that Immortals now give up souls so they are obviously still buffing infantry.

The late game Fury buff from dead beasts will make warlocks stronger late game.

I really think this is a chance for Skorne to catch up honestly. Rebalancing will be really good to them because the old design philosophy of Skorne can be done away with. Yeah, I get the feeling that the Molik Missile will be less of a thing. I think everything else will be better off for it though.

I'm hoping the new Cephalyx restrictions aren't too narrow.

I was really excited after hearing about how Mercs can act more like a real faction now, but then in the Primecast they sort of hinted that Cephalyx might not get to join in on the fun.

>>46827280
It's specifically a special rule called "soul vessel" which we don't know the specifics of. Might not allow enemies to take the souls. Or it might just be a renamed identical clockwork vessel.

>>46827081

I'd say they're forcing Skorne to go even beast heavier and making that more difficult to manage on table; say what you want but fury-juggling with the contradictions of Enrage was it's own little bit of nofun, focus-users. One heavy/two lights was what I could manage without markedly more mental effort. Focus is idiot-proof by comparison, you aren't done crunching your fury situation until the turn is over.

>>46827348

Probably the latter considering PP's trying to merge a lot of the similar-ish special rules together.

>>46827404
Honestly, I'm probably just going to replace all my heavy beasts with the mammoth and not worry about fury. It's easy to manage fury when there's just one of them.

If they let bronzebacks keep their leadership though, that'd be super fucking useful. Then you just have to worry about the bronzeback's fury, and take fury off the other titans when you have the opportunity.

>>46827106
Nah... Just like I expected my Legion Shepherds to get a nerf.

Shit was 2 guud to balance around.

I hope condition is no longer limited to once per beast, so a unit of handlers can work together on it.

>>46827081
Given that Condition isn't once a turn, Skorne got hit the least.

When you can easily put 6-8 models with it on the table, you can continue to manage Fury just fine.

It's Legion that's going to be sucking hardcore.

>>46827682
Condition isn't once per turn, but beast handling is currently. That'd need to be changed.

>>46826903
Cryx gets nothing, including fluff.

Does anyone have the art with stryker and magnus?

>>46827664
>>46827714
It is not.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249502-Primecast-Episode-31&p=3479508&viewfull=1#post3479508

I want everything buffed and nerfed enough that we don't have any "must include" models.

*cough* choir, beast handlers, shepherds, banes, etc. *cough*

>>46827768
Choir and Shepards both got the nerf stick, so yea.

My guess is that Bane Knights either go to 1" or lose WM and that Thralls stay the same as they are, but Curse gets changed.

>>46827742
Crisis averted, skorne op, eat shit legion

>>46827787
Bane Thralls will keep weapon master. Bane Knights will lose it. It'll be much like the Warder/Champ situation.

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>>46827732

>>46827799
Speaking of fucking Warders.

5 LOS blocking shield guards for a Warlock. Holy fuck.

>>46827816
thanks senpai

>>46827791

Time to play Savages!

>>46826306

Are they big guys?

>>46827799
where did you read that?

>>46827892
Just speculation likely, but they're actively trying to make units distinct from each other. Exemplars and cataphracts (and I think some ret shit I don't know about) were specifically called out as becoming starkly different from one another to fill different roles, same as champs and warders.

Asking the important questions:

So... Sorcha/Butcher romcom plotline concerning the Empress/Vlad wedding when?

Which, by the way

Weapon Master unchanged, some models gained it, some lost it, most got point changes for it.

Does anyone have The Wrath of the Dragonfather epub/pdf/whatever? I want to read it because Toruk shows up, but no one else from my faction does, because why the fuck would they.

>>46827932
You know that Sorcha and Vlad are an item, right?

Though I think you do, considering you paired Sorcha and Butcher.

>>46826796
Also worth noting that one of the benefits of one of the Troll tier lists is +2THR for all beasts in the army, so I think they designed MK3 in mind with the idea that frenzing actually happens more often.

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>>46827961

>>46828010
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249502-Primecast-Episode-31&p=3479306&viewfull=1#post3479306

>>46827664
literally what inflict pain is for

>>46826796

They did realize that the not-faction that played through mk2 without fury management, at the mercy of frenzy, was by the end it considered an uncompetative joke no matter how good their warlocks were?

>>46827931
ah. Yeah, IDK. I'd almost rather Bane Thralls lose weapon master of the two, because I hate BTs and own more bane knights. Also I don't know what the fuck bane knights would do if they lost weapon master.

>>46828083
Still hit at an effective POW16-18?

>>46828081
It sounds like they're trying to bring more focus on infantry in general.

>>46828111
Except they're trying to add more focus to battlegroup by making WJ points a much larger percentage of the game points than before.

>>46826796

It seems to me that if they wanted people to risk ending turns over their fury-budget they ought to *raise* threshhold stats. People understood the risks just fine... IT WAS NOT WORTH IT. 50% chance of putting a 10-damage dent in a fellow battlegroup member for ending a turn over by one fury point, virtually all cases.

>>46828137
Yes, but given Fury management, those points would likely be spent anyways, even if the points hadn't changed.

Like, most Hordes lists want/need to run 2 heavies/1 heavy and two lights just to generate fury for themselves. So you'll end up using the points no matter what.

>>46828144
Except that Frenzing was, 90% of the time, simply another way to manage Fury easily. Having your beast frenzy on the enemy(and it was so easy to have them frenzy on the enemy) meant that it was rarely a real drawback.

>>46826796

I'm probably one of the few Skorne players perfectly fine with the Condition nerf.

Condition was fucking HORSE SHIT. You could run an entire battlegroup red hot, and then take all that Fury away at a bargain basement price of 2/3 points. Condition made a fucking mockery of the idea that Fury is a risk/reward system. Circle players dealt with it, Trollbloods dealt with it, and so can Legion and Skorne.

>>46828111
They die too easily, unfortunately.

>>46828144
Or just figure out a better, non-random way to punish you. Random effects like that are dumb, it's why they're fixing tough and why they dropped fear checks.

>>46828137
>Except they're trying to add more focus to battlegroup by making WJ points a much larger percentage of the game points than before.

It's clear this mind set is intended for Warmachine. Every Hordes faction already runs a good mix of warbeasts by the basic fact that you need enough to fuel your warlock consistently. They're clearly trying to have the standard for both systems be a healthy mix of jacks/beasts and infantry.

>>46828211
It's very likely that Fury management will still let you avoid frenzing, you just won't be able to run every beast at full and be absolutely fine.

>>46828202

Me, I run as beast-light as I can get away with. Except for Hexeris2. Then I've got twelve beast handlers.

>>46828197

The rewards for running hot were in no way proportional to the risks of running hot- so people didn't run hot at all. All the tools that factions had to mitigate running hot were instead used to increase the amount of fury that could be used without running hot- and that far they went, and no further. You know, because the rewards for running hot were in no way proportional to the risks. One boosted roll could wreck your day.

>seriously, what did they expect with a situation like that?

>>46827932
>>46827978
>Sorcha

It's Sorscha

>>46828773
someone on the internet spelled a fake person's name wrong, better fix it

>>46828798
Not my fault you're illiterate.

I kinda feel like PP is just repeating the what they did from mkI to mkII regarding warjacks. They aren't really making them better they're just making you take them, only now you have to take more. I mean, yes, the Slayer received 1' reach, a free focus and a point decrease, but, it still has a garbage grid, DEF13 and ARM17.

>>46827768
Some models are not auto-include because they are so good. They're auto-include because they enable a certain playstyle. See Beast Handlers.

>>46828202
>You could run an entire battlegroup red hot, and then take all that Fury away at a bargain basement price of 2/3 points
A ranged battlegroup. It doesn't work on beasts that you committed, because:
a) Enrage
b) Range

>>46828964
There's a lot we haven't seen though, to make final decision. Like, if Power Attacks got better, then things might be a lot different.

I mean, hell, take Hard Head. One of the biggest points of Mk2 was how little Power Attacks got used outside of very certain situations. So why give the Slayer Hard Head?

>>46829002
Are you kidding, Beast Handlers are amazing.

3 points gets you six excellent support models with decent MAT, Reach, and auto-point damage.

You can use them as actual combat troops, man.

>>46828964

What do you want man?

Are jacks just supposed to eradicate everything, have a huge threat range and never die?

Everyone bitching constantly about warjacks as if they don;t know what game balance is and think the game should not include anything BUT heavy warjacks in every list.

All of these changes are good and not everything has to be amazing and unstoppable. They can't just make every jack an unkillable monster that destroys all infantry AND jacks and can fly and has laser eyes. They need limitations the same as anything else or else we are going to have a shitty game.

I seriously have no clue what people expect here.

>>46829072
>Are you kidding, Beast Handlers are amazing.
>3 points gets you six excellent support models with decent MAT, Reach, and auto-point damage.
>You can use them as actual combat troops, man.
No sir, are you kidding me? Or in fact, did you fail at reading? I never said they weren't good. I said they are taken because they are essential, not because they're broken.

Also 5 is NOT a decent MAT.

Ok i haven't kept up with today's bean / spaghetti spillage on the spoiler bombs.

someone fill me in.

i play skorne and cryx (and a touch of cygnar) am i fucked?

>>46829097
For support models it is.

Killing a def12 model on a single average roll is more than decent for a 1/2 point model.

>>46829097
imo it's not so much their direct attacking ability, as it is their jamming. Single wound infantry can't walk away from them because of reach and auto damage, and the free strike bonus makes them way more likely to hit.

>>46829168
>Killing a def12 model
Such as? Bane Knights? Oh wait.

>>46829169
So you're saying that Handlers are broken because they can kill squishy targets on a free strike? Well guess what: So can EVERYONE. Except for Issiria. And a few others.

>>46829210
Quote where anyone said they're broken pls

>>46829166
>skorne
sounds like they should be improved but changed

>cryx
you're fucked, but at least you're not legion fucked

>>46829166
Immortals will now have souls.

All heavy infantry but MoWs are said to be 5 boxes now.

Trenchers be trenching.

Cyngar more focused on lightning theme.

Theme forces are now more like merc contracts, general themes any caster can take.

Cryx: lolfuckyou

>>46827817
Yeah, tough change isn't too big a deal, and if all heavy infantry is on 5 boxes, I think I might actually put some down on the table. I still hop their offense gets back to "better than a fennblade" levels

>>46829242
I'll quote to you the post that said that they need a nerf: >>46827768

Which is my entire point. They don't.

>>46827817

Wait what now? Where is this information from?

That is legit an idea I had a while ago. Fucking awesome.

>>46829089
I thought a good way to fix them would to make it so Jacks can run, charge and preform power attacks for free (heavies at least). This at least puts them on par with warbeasts (who usually have to pay to charge, but have 4 fury).

>>46829383
They didn't even really get a nerf, they got more of a sidegrade.

You can no longer take it all off with one condition, but if you have excess handlers (which you usually do) you could enrage + medicate them, or condition + medicate, like you never used medicate because it meant you couldn't use the other two. And you can still just put 2 handlers onto a support beast to take its 2 fury off fine.

>>46829362
kreoss stealth buff?

>>46829401
Well they did that by giving every jack a free focus every turn.

>>46829395
It's on the forum somewhere, warders have shield guard now.

>>46829395
>>46829449

It's apparently in the Primecast 31 thread.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249154-Comprehensive-Collection-of-MkIII-Spoilers-%28-Spoiler-Alert-%29

>>46829509

Sweet.

>>46829449
also I wanted def14 slayer chassis. Other factions fragile heavies get def14 ;-;

On another note; I feel like the WMH community hasn't experienced an edition change in a while.
This is my fourth one is about 3 years. I assumed the position two weeks ago.

>>46829401

I don;t think it would make that much of a difference. It would simply increase their dmg output slightly. If you're loading up a heavy jack to kill another heavy, you've got good odds that it's gonna get the job done unless you flat out miss with shitty dice.

The free focus kind of takes care of running/power attack.

I honestly think jacks are fine. Hell, I thought jacks in MK2 were nowhere near as bad as people pretended. They just need focus efficiency and that is basically what we're getting.

Now lets just wait and see how Power Booster and Jack Marshal work as well.

>>46827971
>Does anyone have The Wrath of the Dragonfather epub/pdf/whatever? I want to read it because Toruk shows up, but no one else from my faction does, because why the fuck would they.


Not that i know of but it's out now.

>>46829401
They don't need "fixing"

>>46829557

See, you have "GW Edition change" fears.

I know it's jinxing it to say but, as much shit as PP gets, they are trying to make a good game. MK2 came out like 7 years ago and it was a marked improvement and, so far, most of the MK3 changes have been net positive in that they have been in favor of a balanced system instead of "moar power."

I feel like, complaining that things "aren't as strong as you want them to be" is actually looking at it wrong. You should be realizing that everything else isn't getting these massive buffs and, a good portion of them are actually getting taken down a bit while you are getting mild buffs. That is really important.

As opposed to "these models we couldn't sell before are pivotal to your army now and all your old stuff is worthless compared to them."

>>46829557
>I feel like the WMH community hasn't experienced an edition change in a while.
>This is my fourth one is about 3 years. I assumed the position two weeks ago.
Yeah, the edition change only really happens when it's unavoidable due to accumulated rules bloat and balancing issues. It's not just a tool to sell a new set of books (obvious GW comparison).

>>46829421
Well I hope you're right. Maybe the whole role of Animusbots like the Gladiator/Axer (yes I know they do more than that, but only in late-game) changes. Aside from that, I think I'll be glad I painted the extra 2 Handlers per unit.

>>46829627
we know how power booster work.

It still isn't as good as fury because you have to allocate at beginning of turn and one focus doesn't mean 4-5 fury on a beast

>>46829783
Yea, but all signs point to nerfing that 4-5 Fury turn.

>>46829838
How so? The condition change affects every turn BUT that one.

>>46829873

There was talk of reducing the "volume of attacks" beasts get. Also, thresholds are lower and conditioning works differently so you won't be running beasts hot nearly as much as you used to.

>>46829928
threshold mean shit if you're loading a beast up with the intent on it dying next turn, you don't care that it frenzies if it lives.

Jacks don't have that option. I have to spend prior to the turn itself! to get that.

Fury can decide to stop spending if they end up not needing all 5 fury

>mfw I play Legion and I'm totally OK with them getting bent

Time to dust off my old Khador army.

>>46829873
Because the problem was as much about beasts like Ravagores getting those turns, every turn, with no drawback.

>>46826796
Ah good, now Legion can't vomit out like 16 Fury of shit every turn and not give a fuck anymore.

>>46830018
>>46830470

Legion will adapt. Elylyth list were boring anyway.

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Former 40K refugee and current X-Wing player here, with a friend who's pushing pretty hard to start Warmachine with the new edition coming out.

Would anybody mind giving me a rundown on the game and/or Retribution?

>>46831114
Game is a skirmish wargame. The basic focus is that you have a general(if Warmachine, a Warcaster, if Hordes, a Warlock) who commands your army, which consists of either Warjacks or Warbeasts, along with infantry and other such models.

In general, the game is quite complex, both rules and tactics wise. It's not really the most complicated game out there, but it's certainly up there, with a lot of rules interactions and such. It's also very game focused, it has very well defined rules and interactions, and a huge part of it's players are generally of a competitive bent.

Ret is a bunch of terrorist elves who believe that humans using magic are killing their gods, so they have a general focus towards killing enemy casters. They tend towards a combined arms approach, with a lot of their warjacks bringing both melee and ranged attacks, and many of their units can operate in several roles as well.

Their big weakness in Mk2 was durability, they simply couldn't attrition very well. Assassination is a tactic that gets worse the better your opponent gets as well, if your warnoun dies you immediately lose, so good players are very careful about their positioning and safety.

Mk3 coming up promises to change quite a bit with the game, so it's a good idea to wait for it. Currently, one of the big objectives was to bring warjacks into the fore, one of the biggest complaints of the current edition was that Warjacks were almost never really worth it, outside of specific exceptions. But overall, nobody knows quite what to expect. If you want to pick up models, feel free, since nothing's disappearing, but how it will all pan out is up in the air.

>>46827859
For you.

>>46831114
there's going to be a specific article on each of the new factions in Third Edition coming soon.

You're better off waiting for that as some will likely be changed up some.

>>46826600
As a Circle player who runs 2-heavy at minimum I've had my heavies unintentionally frenzy exactly never, and I can't even remember the last time I had to clear more than 1 or 2 fury to avoid it outside of Kaya2.

>>46827971
i second this,also seriously why doesn't toruk send a fucking cryx vanguard,that would've made for an epic battle scene,they couldve even placed the whole event on the coast of cygnar and it would have made sense,this is really triggering my autism

Any predictions for mk3 theme forces? I can only predict Scavengers of the Line, Black Fleet, The Satyxis and some kind of a Bane list, probably The Host of Tartarus, for Cryx.

>>46832533
It's kind of ovious at this point. For example Cygnar will get a Theme force for Stormknights, one for Trenchers, one for Gun Mages and so on.

>>46832546
Yeah, but what will they be called? The stormknight list is probably gonna be the Storm Division.

>>46832573
Yeah sure as hell not going to happen. They might go with something like "Lightning Brigade" again.

Hopefully the push for more infantry in Legion means we're getting some better sculpts.

>>46832602
Especially Swordsmen. Preferably not in bendy restic.

>>46832586
Why not? What makes Lightning Brigade better?

>>46832533
Probably this >>46832546
Each faction will probably have a theme for each of their major unit archtypes, with maybe a few slightly more specific ones scattered around. Like I can already tell my Circle is going to have Tharn theme, Wold theme, non-Tharn infantry theme, and non-Wold beast theme.

I'm sure off the wall stuff like Magnus' Bad Seeds will still exist in some recognizable form as well, whether as a Theme or something else (Magnus as another Cygnar/Merc crossfaction caster PLEASE PP).

>>46832621
Brainfart on my part.

>>46832533

Army of the Western Reaches: (Praetorians and Venators)
The Host of House Kophar: (Cataphracts)
Heretics: Nihilators, Bloodrunners, Void Sprits
Orthodoxy: Ancestral Guardians, Immortals, Extollers
Screw Hoksune I'm Rich: Titans
My Wagon has Candy In It: Minions

I do wonder if beast handlers might not show up in one of them. Skorne theme forces were like that sometimes.

>>46832629

I think that Mags will probably be able to be taken in some Cygnar theme lists, "armies of the traitor King" or something

>>46832793
They probably won't cosider him a traitor anymore in MK3.

>>46832706


>"the slaves unchained"

>all warbeasts in this army gain +1 fury, -2 threshold.
>this army may not take beast handlers

>>46832847
>or warlocks
>or willbreakers
>just elephants and bugs and stuff

why do I have a feeling primal is going to be changed pretty dramatically


And all this talk of thresholds actually makes me wonder if Wolds will stop being shit

>>46832993
Considering thresholds are being universally lowered for all beasts, signs point to yes.

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>>46831114

>Former 40K refugee

Me too, brother. Me too.

Retribution Theme Force :

Dawnbringer : Dawnguard units;

Shade Assassins : Mage Hunters;

Technocracy : House Shyel jacks and jack support. Kinda Force Wall.

Expendable : Houseguard unit.

>>46826306
So I'll be apart of a IKRPG unleashed game soon and I'm the warlock of the group for the first time and playing playing a blackclad as my second career trying to use wolds. Am I going to have a fury problem?

>>46832533
>Any predictions for mk3 theme forces

Trolls: Deadly Light Beasts and Ranged Infantry

>>46832847
I seriously hope they move away from this line of thinking

I get free strikes from Poltergeist, right?

>>46833185
Former WHF player here. Needless to say, I'm irrationally nervous about upcoming changes.

>Consider yourself indulged thanks to the supplications made by Hungerford on your behalf! (Although now he has to get that Midas and Maelok: Ride the Pigtaur tattoo!)

>Feat: Blackout
Enemy models currently in Morghoul’s control range and LOS suffer Blind for one round. (A model suffering Blind cannot make ranged or magic attacks, suffers –4 MAT and DEF, and cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample power attacks. It must forfeit either its Normal Movement or Combat Action during its next activation. Blind can be shaken.)

>>46834317
No, you only get free strikes from advances.

Polt is a push effect, and not considered an advance.

>>46834359
The return of Mk 1 eMorghoul

Wonder if that'll make him worth using. Could shut down infantry with it pretty well, but for assassinations his fan could already blind people and it didn't make him a useful caster.

>>46834486
The ranged tech Skorne now packs could make that assassination far easier. If you blind their caster and then lob three boosted poison shots into them, you'll likely kill most not fully camped casters.

Mk3 Wishlist thread?

What are the top 3 changes you're hoping for in your faction.

1. Faction infantry buff, namely trenchers and stormblades
2. Stormwall nerf/other heavies buffed
3. Sloan buff

All I want is a colossal or war engine that isn't either Rhulic or Pirate.
I know the Résistance is on a budget and all, but still....

I haven't really been keeping up with what's going on with Mk. 3 but I keep reading that Legion is fucked. What happened to them?

>>46834798
1. Warcasters remain fairly strong, if toned down slightly
2. Infantry not worthless
3 helldivers remain unchanged, 7 pts?
4. Venethrax becones awsome
5. Cryx gets cool fluff

>>46834486
Well sure, he could always blind people. But we're talking about the difference between getting into combat and then landing a hit versus simply getting within ten inches of the enemy caster. It's a powerful enabler, even if Morghoul isn't the out-and-out assassin himself anymore.

It's good for assassinations of a diverse variety, and it bones infantry quite handily. I'd say it's a pretty solid feat - if nothing else about Morghoul2 changes it'd be disappointing, but he'd still be a whole lot more viable even just with the new feat.

>>46832993
Trolls now get Rage on the Mountain King.

No reason to expect Primal stays on the Gorax (or Lightning Strike on the Stalker).

>>46835075
Condition is now 1 fury instead of any number, nerfing Shepherds pretty significantly. No confirmation on Forsaken.

Won't affect the currently trending Blightbringer-and-infantry Legion builds much, but then again, we don't know what the new Blighty will be like.

>>46835075
All Legion models are losing eyeless sight, but to compensate for it, PP are providing all Legion players with googly eyes to stick on their models.

>>46834857
Galleon isn't pirate collosal.

>>46835121
I'm saddened by how Morghoul isn't a nimble super solo. His title is literally "Lord Assassin".

>>46834798
Jack marshals not useless
Mechanik UA gains tuneup for manowar and jacks
Manowar kovnik is useful for something, anything

I really want to see what changes will come to pSevy, with the nerf to choir will he still have +1+1 for his control area. (EoM)

https://mobile.twitter.com/wnhungerford/status/723549178945626118

Wait. Does this mean that Shae can be taken with non pirates, finally?

>>46836127
That's the implication. In fact, that seems to be about the only real 'big' change for mercs when removing the contracts.

>>46836127
who?

someone catch me up on today's leaks.

MORGHOUL2 HAS HIS MK1 FEAT BACK. MY ERECTION CANNOT BE CONTAINED!

>Blackhide Wrastler's animus is RAGE
Gone are the days of needing Rask to shatter armor
Bless the Blackhide Wrastler

>>46833247
They will definitely need to have a House Vyre themed one too.

>>46833841
You shouldn't.

>>46836124
>>46836320
+3 STR for Warbeasts solves a lot of Blindwaters problems.

>>46835096
>helldivers remain unchanged
HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

NO

>>46827718
Strange, I heard "we nerfed their infantry so Cryx might as well take jacks now"

>>46836135

Besides both Magnuses in high borne and him having access to gun mages, precursor Knights and hammer dwarves

>>46836435
Precursor Knights and Gun Mages were both part of the Highborn contract. Contracts are now gone.
Are those units still available to mercs? Maybe it'll be like the Doc. Arkadius thing where he can take Gorax, except it'll be Ashlynn who can take gun mages?

>>46836229
blind is shakeable and you have to have line of sight for the feat. meh

Ancestral guardians now give souls (nerf to an extent. i mean now cryx can collect something from them. before they could not.)

>>46836471
Precursor Knights are Mercenaries with Partisan [Cygnar] now. All of the Ally units are Mercs with Partisan now.

>>46836471

Precursor Knights are Cygnar allies, they're Mercs first and they even mentioned them as Mercs that won't work with thamarites in the exact same article where they talked about merc contracts.

And gun mages will probably be in the Lael specific theme forces which are open to all merc casters, including Mags

>>46836498
A nerf? Are you legally retarded?

>>46836567
just because i can collect a soul from it now doesn't make it any better really. And if anything it can make it a liability when terminus comes over and shits all over them (thanks for the 10 easy pz souls)

>>46829290
>man o wars have different amount of boxes
So we still get our eight boxes then? Wonder how that'll pan out.

>>46836567
also they won't have 8 wounds .. only 5 so easy kills.

>>46836596
It's like you don't have casters that prevent other factions from collecting souls.

>>46829783
But we don't. At least not how it interacts with this take the Koldun lord for example he can't use his power booster now as it needs a jack that's not allocated focus that turn. Also, without skill checks Marshals are likely to be very different than what they were before.

>>46836615
You fucking mongoloid.

>>46836615
They'll probably still have 8. They're solos, not a unit. They're not going to have the same boxes as eiryss.

>>46836644
But we do, retard. Power booster gives a focus. No restriction anymore

>>46836656
>They're solos,
ancestral guardian unit?? no it will have 5

>>46832629
I can look forward to this actually as a khador player we should have some interesting themes coming down the pipeline then.

>>46836615
They're safe. They had 10.

>>46836656
Don't talk to him like an equal, it's offensive to his inability to understand simple concepts

>>46836671
Please point to me what book the "ancestral guardian unit" is in.

>>46831114
These are the basics for MK2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxirCgRSzhA

>>46836742
Gargantuans. They're in a unit with Makeda.

>>46836229

My big question is what will the rest of his kit be?

Acrobatics plz. Preferably double strike too. Fury 5 does not go a long way if you want to be an "assassin."

>>46836955
See? See? This is what you get when you let it think it's people

>>46836955
Dude. Dude. Stop. Those aren't AGs. And they already have 5 boxes.

>>46836980
Lesson learned.

>>46836980
>>46837014
I'm getting a rather samefaggy vibe from these posts.

>>46837058
Yeah if you get called out for being a total idiot, everyone else must be a samefag. Whatever.

"Will on Primecast Post on Forums Because it's Friday (and totally not because the glowering shadow of our forum overlord PPS_Simon is hovering over me with one of Reznik's wracks at the ready) let's talk some numbers!
Much like the Slayer I previewed in Wednesday's Insider, the tried and true Crusader is pretty much the same warjack Protectorate players know and love. Albeit it now has that sweet RNG 1 on its melee weapons. Thebig thing to consider in the new edition is that this jack comes in at a bargain 10 PC. As many have postulated 10 PC puts it at a cost less than several light warjacks. I don't care how "basic" you may consider the Crusader, when your opponent throws down 3 of them for free with each getting a guaranteed focus a turn they are a force to be reckoned with!
But what about another example I hear you (and not the deep menacing growl of PPS_Simon) say! Well let's look at the Templar. In the new edition the Templar's shield gained a point of POW and, more importantly the Templar now has Shield Guard! And at a PC of 15 it's even slightly cheaper than it was in Mk II.
And for a final point of comparison, the Redeemer is now 11 points (so again slightly cheaper) and, are you ready for it, thanks to the change in how ROF works in the new edition just flat out gets to make three skyhammer shots per activation, no focus required (nevermind that you still have one for free)."

>>46836969
The problem I'm seeing is that honestly, his kit is niche. His schtick is entirely about Arcane Assassin + Silence of Death at effective Mat 12 with a Pow 12 Weaponmaster. A charge and 4 bought attacks should see most casters dead if you can get to them between Spd 7, Apparition, and Shadow Whip. Hell, the feat could be the only change and he'd be sitting more than pretty, almost convinced he would be the best caster in Skorne. Feat, then have two squads of Croaks just clear out everything you can see with effective Rat 10 or 12, boosed pow 12's with cts fire.

>>46837445
Templar changes will make him GOAT with pReznik.
Will also make a good team with triscuit.
Mat 6 will mean it will be somewhat worse at mowing down clumps of infantry with most casters, but I take it that was never its intended role.
Crusader might be used as a back up heavy, but I don't see it being very impressive.

Redeemer is much better. Hard to imagine deliverers having a niche with the redeemer being so strong

>>46837445
As a Menoth player, this is good to hear. Templars with Shield Guard give us a needed tool in the early game and a durable heavy beater for late game. Guaranteed 3 boosted Redeemer shots is orgasmic. The Crusader change is interesting, as even though it's still Spd 4 and Mat 6, the 1" reach helps immensely and with a free focus each turn, is a perfectly fine model to initiate a piece trade.

Oh holy Menoth, I just imagined Amon Ad Raza with hordes of Crusaders and it sounds terrifying. Spd 6, Pathfinder, 1" Reach with Synergy. And you could probably fit 9 or 10 of them into a list with more than enough support...

I need new pants

>>46833185
It's funny, I might run into one of the problems I had with 40K: I like one or two factions aesthetics, but but have no real love for the rest.

I guess it might not be such a problem if anyone around these parts actually painted their goddamn models.

Agonizers are now lesser warbeasts

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Apparently the faction that complains the most is now the Minions, as there is endless tears over not just mixing and matching pig and croc, but even people bitching that the Wrastler is gaining Rage.
Holy shit I thought minions players were cool. What happened?

On that aside, time to start making my own croc Hutchuck out of a spare resin Sacral Vault pusher.

>>46838267
Arguably, this is a great change. The cries will probably get toned down some, but this makes them far more survivable (more boxes, healable) and also allows them to operate without investing your caster's fury, so more casters can take them.

My guess is they have an ability akin to the current incarnation of the Weakness animus (streamlined, better play experience for your opponent) that also denies channeling/arcing, but with a range dependent on how much Fury is on the Agonizer. Maybe 3" per Fury? So -2 to damage rolls for enemy models within 6".

Also would like to see it have that Arc Node animus that the Blind Walker currently has. Not having a consistent Arc Node is pretty killer on some casters.

>>46838467
Loud minority are really freaking out while the reasonable players are waiting to see the whole picture before reacting.

>>46838467
It's the autistic unique snowflake people bitching. Reasonable minion players see the immense benefits mixing brings. Too bad reasonable people don't go to PP forums.

Holy shit, the PoM forum is embarrassing.

>>46838980
Are there any faction forums that aren't?

>>46839060
True, I just don't have any experience with the other forums.

>>46837665
I'm sure deliverers will get some love. I'm sure it has not gone unnoticed that there's no reason for deliverers.

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-04-22-2016

>>46839101
Cryx forums are pretty much "lel apply Moar baneZ ebin maymay". I play cryx and hope banes get nerfed just so I can see them cry.

But part of me wants to see banes get buffed to see everyone else cry.

>>46839259
That was... kinda boring?

>>46839500
Yep

>>46839293
Enjoy your weaponmaster Banes while you can~

>>46839060

as far as I've seen legion's been pretty reasonable about the fact everything they've said about us has been nerfs

>>46833185
>>46831114
Why did you guys leave 40k? Just interested.

>>46826306
Inb4 my eng sucks

Some please tell me, how are they going to simplify the rules with Mk3, if the game is already as simple as hell? I dropped WM&H four month into Mk2 because of the simple silliness that came up in the rules (and partially because a lot of models lost their unique rules therefore factions lost some of their flavours). I know, game was broken in some parts, but overall it had a lot options to chose from during list building and gameplay. I really hoped that there will be Mk3 that will make it more complex and let me field these sweet new toys that they've released alongside with my dust collecting dudes. And when they've shown a video announcement, they said that the game needs to be dulled down. Does it mean, that somewhere along the way it got back to the old pacing? Should I come back and give it a try (when I dropped Mk2 I've started playing Infinity and Malifaux which filled the gap for me)?

>>46840510
>warmachine is too simple
>lets play infinity
>where every figure is the exact same with +/- 5-20% difference on its stats and then special rules just tacked on
>infinity where any army can play like it was any other army and flavor is a buzzword

You what

>>46840510

one example, in mkii they've put in a bunch of rules that do pretty much the same thing with slight variations and different names that will likely be consolidated in mkiii so you don't have to know 5 different versions of the exact same effect

Am I the only one who feels like the way they are handling spoilers for MKIII is really shit. They are releasing very little information and what information they are releasing seems to be mostly aimed at toning down things which doesn't seem to be a great way to get people excited for a new edition.

>>46840510
A lot of what they're doing is clarifying rules, making some rules icons, and consolidating certain rules with no appreciable differences. Casters are getting unique abilities and spells back as well. All models have been rebanced (ex. Trenchers are really good now, Morghoul2 got his mk1 feat back) and there is more granularity in points so models are costed more appropriately. List building is arguably going to have a greater variety too thanks to more midels being good and their new take on theme lists. All said, now is probably the best time to come back in preparation for June when mk3 releases.

>>46840728
I was hoping for a few spoiled cards in each weekly insider. Even if it's irrelevant models.

>>46840728
I think they're releasing spoilers in this way so that they can get the painful stuff over with, then finish at a high point to get people super hyped for June. Kinda like peeling off a band aid quickly, it hurts at the beginning but gets better.

>>46840759
they're spoiling quite a bit from forum posts.

>>46840794
I could see that. But at this point the spoilers have me pretty much just bummed about MKIII so far which shouldn't be the goal.

>>46840845

which faction do you play? cygnar and khador have had a bunch of good stuff revealed so they have a reason to be hyped while circle's had like nothing and legion's only had nerfs so if you're one of those you have a reason to be bummed until they've had some good stuff come out

>>46840959
Ret. Power up is sweet and I'm somewhat excited for some of the stuff they've been talking about but as it stands now it seems that there's a lot of things being toned down. Between Choir, condition changes, generally lower thresholds, and the heavy infantry changes it really feels like overall a lot of the announcements have been of things getting toned down which doesn't exactly make me hopeful.

>>46841106

>choir

You don't have choir

>medium infantry

You don't have medium infantry

>condition and threshold nerfs

Because they're making warmachine (focus) great again

I will build this wall between caspia and sul 10 feet higher

Seriously everything they've done is make warmachine better compared to horses and ret is on the forefront of benefitting from that

>>46841106

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249154-Comprehensive-Collection-of-MkIII-Spoilers-(-Spoiler-Alert-)

you may have seen this already but hopefully it helps, there's been quite a bit of non-toning down news too it just gets posted about less than people justifiably worrying about the toning down stuff

>>46840759
We won't really know what models are irrelevant until they spoil the whole thing...

>>46841322
>>46841360
I'm aware of those changes and I'm aware that of the changes listed most of them benefit/don't affect me. I'm saying that with the way spoilers are coming out, for my faction or not, it's mostly bumming me out at this point to see most of the news being somewhat negative.

>>46841465
Just because their showing some nerfs doesn't mean there isn't a chance for buffs. Balancing is fantastic, both ways it goes balancing is a good thing that people shouldn't get bummed out about.
Also most of the news is positive in my opinion
>better point balancing with point increases
>lots of WJ/WB points
>tough balancing
>'underused' units like trenchers and immortals getting love
>jacks getting cheaper
>frenzy mechanic actually being made meaningful
>minions/mercs united
>pre-measuring
>power up

>>46841465

you've touched on most of the negative news aside from tough while there's a pretty big list of positive news in that thread, I really have to disagree with you that most of the news has been somewhat negative

I wonder what the Grolar will look like. Surely it's not going to just keep ROF 5 for 5 initial ranged attacks with gunfighter and virtuoso.

>>46841669
Considering the Redeemer now has RoF 3, I'm saying all bets are off. Have my fingers crossed for RoF 4 Mammoth.

this just in:

Agonizers are now lesser warbeasts.

>>46826306
>Question for the PGs out there that have nodded off or slowed down on their new player generation events... What will it take for you to start again?
Pretty much just the new edition announcement. I was ready to walk away from the game but the Mk3 announcement has me and pretty much everyone else in my meta re-energized and ready to go.

Hopefully Mk3 doesn't suck

"Let me clear something up, Legion still runs their battlegroup like few others in the new edition. Between Shepherds and Forsaken (while Shepherds can now only pull or put on 1 Fury with Condition, Forsaken can still consume up to 5 fury) Legion battlegroups can get serious work done and potentially mitigate the overall risks of running hot. The big difference is now you simply can't count on completely and easily removing all of that risk. HORDES is after all a game about risk management.

As far as things to get excited about? While let's talk about one of my all time favorite WARMACHINE or HORDES models, the Archangel.

The Archangel is now SPD 7 and is the first gargantuan or colossal to have a rule that allows it to move outside of its normal movement in Deceptively Mobile (I argued really hard that it should be called Insanely Fast, but I was overruled). Deceptively Mobile simply says that at the end of an activation this model did not run or fail a charge it can advance up to 3", then its activation ends. This rule replaced the Archangel's Ride By Attack but I think in the end you'll quickly see it was well worth the trade as this nimble gargantuan effectively gained 4" of potential movement.

Oh and its RAT went up to 6. So it's way more accurate with those d3+1 AOE 3 POW 14 dragon fire shots!"

Which of your faction's casters are you most looking forward to in mk3? Which caster do you think will change the most in your faction? Which caster do you think will change the least?

"From the Necrotech -

Spare Parts - When a warjack is destroyed in this model’s command range, it gains one scrap token. This model can have up to three scrap tokens at any time. Before making a Repair roll, this model can spend one scrap token to add +2 to its roll.


Create Scrap Thrall (Action) - When this model uses this ability remove one or more scrap tokens from this model, then roll a d3 for each scrap token removed. Place up to that number of Scrap Thralls into play completely within 3˝ of this model. A placed Scrap Thrall must forfeit its Combat Action the turn it is put into play."

>>46843132
Mohsar, Mohsar, maybe Kaya2

>>46843132
Madrak 1 is what I'm looking forward to since the tough change means that surefoot has excellent value.
Grissel 2 likely will go through big changes.
Grissel 1 will not change. For better or worse her kit is inoffensive but highly functional.

"There are new Convergence models in the works. They will be in the Convergence Force Book."

>>46843312
Of course, question is when the book will be out.

>>46843132
I'm looking forward to what Karchev will be like. Always loved his look and lore, always hated his rules and gameplay. Power Up is already a massive buff for him, so I'm hoping he gets some more tweaks that will make him a solid caster.

>>46843132
Witch Coven. Gaspy2. Goreshade3.

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>>46843132
Pretty much all of Trolls, Magnus, and Ashlynn

>>46843327
Vlad1 and Karchev with the new powerup rules scare me a lot. People better prepare their butts for the Khador Jackpocalypse.

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>>46843132
I'm excited to see Cryx, Legion, and Circle taken out back beaten with the nerf bat

>>46840435

I left around the time their games became focused on selling as many models as possible.

The Apocalypse-level games sound like a TERRIBLE time, not fun. There's no support for the tournament scene.

When I started 40k it was small skirmish battles and it was great. That's what Warmachine has become.

>>46843625
I mean, Menoth too.

If the Archangel has something else to work with, it might end up good.

>>46842533
Source?

>>46843132
>Which of your faction's casters are you most looking forward to in mk3?
Kromac2. More jacks on the table mean more big things for him to slam his beasts into,

>Which caster do you think will change the most in your faction?
Goatvahna, all living non-character warriors in Circle had to be designed around the fact that she was bullshit, I don't see that staying the same.

>Which caster do you think will change the least?
Kromac1. His transformation mechanic would be hard to make significant changes to and I don't see why they would, and his spell list is solid. Maybe he gains Heart Eater like he always should have had, maybe he goes up slightly in personal chopping power somehow (MAT buff please), but he could very nearly be printed as-is.

>>46843942
I would actually expect a feat change. As it is now his feat is very odd on him. On Kromac1 that is

>>46843908
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?249524-Primecast-Info/page4

post 131

>>46843040
Are you pulling my leg.

>>46843040
>d3+1
>random attacks
>good

>>46844235
What's odd about it? It fits with how his Beast Form works thematically (take damage, hulk out), and it fits with his gameplan of bullying the enemy caster with his jump-murder assassination.

I admit it's a bit on the weak side because there are a surprising amount of casters these days that can survive an arbitrarily high number of unbuffed Mat7/Pow14s to the face.

>Since every model in the game has been rebalanced, we decided that Bane Thralls and Bane Knights should retain their Weapon Master. Look forward to seeing more Weapon Master units in other factions.

whew!

>>46844585
oh no.

>>46844537
As it stands now his beast form isn't the most powerful melee beatstick nor is it his primary schtick. On top of that I believe that his spell list isn't exactly suited for the feat either. So what you have is a feat that currently takes advantage of the weakest aspects of the caster.

>>46838980
Is it worse than trolls?

People are crying that changes to tough and snipe, fucking snipe, have invalidated their purchases

>>46844889
>invalidated their purchases

That is the dumbest fucking phrase.

>>46844889
That seems a tad silly. They don't even know what the models have gotten to compensate for the loss of this option

>>46840616
I will say that I love infinity but you have a point. At least in WMH the special rules are descriptive. Weapon Master makes someone hit harder, Tough makes them tougher to kill, pathfinder helps them find a path through rough terrain.

But Kinamatica? Metachemisty?