Would the Emperor still be alive and well if he stayed loyal?
anyone?
Better question,
Who sent the assassin? Everyone assumes it was the Emperor.
>>46826348
Satan himself
>>46826348
The Emperor was already on the Throne, it had to be one of the high lords. Can't imagine Russ, Dorn, or Gulliman doing something as dishonorable as sending an assassin out after their brother
>>46826371
kill yourself
>>46825858
He was loyal, and nothing would have changed even if he wasn't because he was never able to get to Terra because of delaying actions by traitors. If he had been able to get to Terra, yes, Big-E would still be alive.
You need to stop reading 1d4chan and pretending that their memes mean anything.
>>46826371
Also you need to literally drink Draino.
>>46826552
>If he had been able to get to Terra, yes, Big-E would still be alive.
But he's almost useless in a fight. If an actual fighter like Rowboat or Leman were there it would have gone different
>>46826348
Curze sent it to silence the Night Haunter.
>>46826371
Curzefag explain this ND tier post >>46806344
>>46826669
>>46826608
>But he's almost useless in a fight
Where did you get that from? The books and lore portray him as an exceedingly tactically competent man, and a match for Horus in that regard. He was looked over for warmaster because he was kind of a dick and had no people skills at all, which is where the Autism meme comes from.Really it's because he spent the first ten years of his life in a forest filled with fucking Chaos Monsters and tiny mute aliens.
He was also probably the best, or close to the best, swordsman of the primarchs. He was also a match for Russ, their battle lasted a day and ended only when Russ started laughing and the Lion got pissed and cold clocked him.
>>46826701
Kurzefag and ND are the same person
>>46826748
He got rekt by Curze. Agree about him being a great general though, just don't think he's a great fighter 1v1
>>46826788
>he got rekt by Cruze
>just don't think he's a great fighter 1v1
They where in a melee during the book, and in the second fight after that (also in a melee) he put Cruze in a coma. He also has been shown to be more than capable in 1v1 according to the other books when he duked it out on even terms with Russ via bare knuckle brawling and when he killed the Fateweaver by drawing his sword and stabbing it before it could react.
Trying to say he is 'almost useless' is ND levels of retard.
>>46827036
Could be wrong but I thought he only put Kurze in a coma when he sneak stabbed him during a conversation
>>46827117
Nope. You're thinking of the fight with the Fateweaver.
He dealt Curze 11 separate wounds in combat, each fatal to a regular astartes.
>>46827173
Yes...because he was a Primarch, not a regular astartes.
>>46827173
Yes, your husbando is very strong. We get it. Now pls go.
>>46827154
well he did sucker stab curze and sucker punched russ
>>46827242
Glad you admit to it.
>>46827283
>he sucker punched Russ
Not really. Russ stopped fighting to laugh, forgetting that the Lion was a guy with no people skills and who was fighting after being attacked by Russ, and got punched in the skull. It was one of the "Old Russ acts like a retard" moments.
>>46827413
Think Lion acted like the retard there m8,
>>46827454
How?
Was it the part where he enacted his battle plan ignoring Russ and successfully took the castle, or the part where Russ attacked him and he fought him back, or the part where after Russ started laughing like a fucking madman he punched him?
Russ just forgot that he wasn't in an anime for a minute. He had a reputation for being aggressive, and for having no qualms about killing his brothers.The Lion had a reputation for not being able to read people well and having no sense of humor. Honestly, what the fuck did he expect would happen?
>>46827543
Lion was the one who broke ranks by attacking before planned. Russ unofficially outranked Lion as well since order of discovery was a defacto primarch ranking, that's why Gulliman nominated Sangy for emperor of Imperium Seccundus
>>46827173
Yes and the Iron Hands guy still has his head
Now fuck off
>>46827607
>Lion was the one who broke ranks by attacking before planned.I'll let you in a secret mate. The DA blurb and the SW blurb are both different, with each one painting the other to be clearly in the false.Though both versions paint the Lion's plan as coming first iirc. If I remember it correctly the DA blurb states that they just ignored the space wolves and their desire for revenge and just went ahead with their already well laid plans, while the SW blurb has them literally stealing the thunder from the Space Wolves after they suffered heavy casualties from the aforementioned plan.
As for unofficial ranks, they're unofficial and literally don't matter.
>that's why Gulliman nominated Sangy for emperor of Imperium Seccundus
Nah it was because everyone liked Sangy and Gulliman didn't really trust the Lion. He still made him Warmaster 2.0 though.
>>46827701
Claims on the lexi for the battle itself that Lion attacked early just to be a douche
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dulan
>>46827796
Ahh, I stand corrected. So the Space Wolves state the Lion attacked first to be a dick, and the DA state Russ was being a immature retard.
I guess we'll never know for sure.
>>46827796
>Sometime during The Great Crusade, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves assaulted a planet whose ruler had disrespected the Emperor by sacrificing thousands of priests to his patron Daemon. In addition to disrespecting the Emperor, the leader of the rebels had also insulted Leman Russ personally by naming him "The Emperor's Lapdog". In response, Leman Russ swore that he would cut the rebel leader's head from his shoulders and demanded that he be allowed to make an immediate attack on the rebel's headquarters. This impatient request was refused because The Lion had spent days gathering intelligence on the headquarters' defenses and had planned a detailed assault of his own. The Dark Angel attack went forward with few casualties and Russ could only watch from the grounds as Lion El'Jonson killed the rebel leader high on the walls of the fortress. After the battle, Russ stormed into the halls of the headquarters to find El'Jonson and vent his frustrations. During the confrontation Leman Russ struck Lion El'Jonson a blow to his head and the two proceeded to wrestle for a day and night without victory for either combatant. When the two finally broke apart, Russ began to laugh - humored by the circumstances the two were fighting over. The Lion was not amused however and in what was considered a cowardly act, struck Russ unconscious as he was laughing.
>The Space Wolves' Primarch was carried from the chamber by his men, and when he had regained consciousness the Dark Angels had already escaped the planet to embark on another campaign. Russ swore he would avenge the slight to his honor, and to this day the two chapters fight honor duels in remembrance of this event
That's from the 4e DA codex as quoted by the Lexi.
>>46827898
>DA Codex
Because that's a reliable unbiased source
>>46827959
Like the Space Wolves codex? The only other source on this?It's almost like that's the point you retard.
>>46827796
Or you could actually try reading and check http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dulan like >>46827796 said
>>46828012
meant for >>46827974
>>46828012
>>46828027
Okay. I'm going to have to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume you don't know how the Lexi works. Perhaps you could actually try reading.
>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dulan
This page has two sources, the first being the non-canon FFG Deathwatch game, and the canon 5e Space Wolves codex.
>>46827898
This post is quoting this article
>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lion_El'Jonson#The_Lion_and_the_Wolf
Which gets it's source for that big blurb of text in that post from the canon 4e Dark Angels Codex.
Since then, each codex for the two armies, when it mentions 'The Lion and the Wolf', parrot what their first codex on it said. They're purposely conflicting statements within the lore designed to create conflict between the two factions. Neither one can be confirmed true by an objective source. Please, go fuck yourself with a rake before trying to tell other people to read when you lack the ability yourself.
>>46826552
>You need to stop reading 1d4chan and pretending that their memes mean anything.
Everyone knows that the Dork Angels turned traitor and then changed their minds before anyone found out. Keeping this a secret is the defining characteristic of their whole super secret dark and edgy crusade.Also Horus did nothing wrong.
>>46826788
>>46827036
Doesn't Curze have extremely variable combat skills? - Sometimes he'll absolutely wreck face, other times he'll go down relatively easy?
Probably his other side and psychic visions helping/hindering him
>>46831416
He has more than average plot dependent skills. I'm not sure it is to Worf levels as far as cold cocking him to show that X is a badass, but it smacks of it.
Also the Lion sucks alter boy cocks in his gay bar citadel.
>>46828145
> Neither one can be confirmed true by an objective source.
It can.
What HH novel covers it?
>>46825858
Would /tg/ be good if OP wasn't a baiting faggot?
oh lovely some more flame-baiting. Time for /tg/ to get their pitchforks and continue ranting and raving about how bad and heretical the Dark Angels and their Primarch are.
>>46832949
I always got the impression that the DA were kinda popular, if a little controversial.
Who gives a rat's ass about popularity?
The other First Founding Chapters that don't have their own Codices, along with the Black Templars and and Chapters like the Crimson Fists who were once the poster boys waaay back in Rogue Trader, are looked upon much more fondly, in spite of the less attention that Games Workshop gives to them.
It's about presentation, not about popularity. The only reason the Unforgiven are on the rise now is because of their recent coverage in Black Library, the 6th Ed Codex bringing all of its changes, and Dark Vengeance being a thing. They're being talked about because they have screen time, not because they're liked.
>>46832994
Not surprising with /tg/'s love of futa. /tg/ wants to love cocks, they just want to be able to tell themselves it does not make them gay. Just like Dark Angels.
Primarchs are irrelevant shit background characters. There's zero reason for all these threads about them.
>>46833136
So /tg/ is projecting its subconscious homophobia on to a fictional group exclusively made up of armoured hunky men with massive guns.
...hmmmmmm.
>>46831656
As far as I know, none. And I think that I am up to date with releases. The last short story from Age of Darkness (Savage weapons) ends with Dark Angels heading to meet the Wolves.
>>46833285
>Both chapters think that the Primatchs had a godlike fight over their honor after one slighted the other
>Horus Heresy series has them both sitting down, Russ explaining why this honor killing was an important culture thing to him but not worth fighting his brother over and Lion accepting Russ explanation and apology while apologizing himself for not respecting his brothers culture.
Oh please for the love of God let someone at BL write this.
>>46833278
desu I'd fuck a space marine
>>46825858
>The Lion
>Loyal
>>46833700
>dumbass le lion es le traitor memester can't even understand OP's implication
You fucks are some of the dumbest animals plaguing this board.
>>46833725
I didn't write Angels of Darkness
>>46826669
>>46825858
Who?
I had eye surgery done so I can no longer see heresy.
>>46835027
It's Lion El'Jonson, the first openly homo sexual Primarch and closet traitor
>>46825858
Better question,
On a scale of 1 to 10, how better would the future be if Erebus died before Lorgar was found
So... other than Bjorn is there anyone in the 40k universe who can remember a time before the current state of the Imperium?
>>46831656
Their fight happened before the heresy. The DA books go from Lion meeting Big Ezy -> sending Luther back -> trading seige weapons to Pert for his vote as warmaster -> fighting curze -> hunting curze -> then bringing a captured curze to ultimar. Unless there's a short story I'm missing it hasn't and probably won't cover it.
>>46835091
Erebus, Kor Phaeron and Typhon dying would have saved a lot of trouble for all
>>46833151
I disagree
>>46833673
You'd get your benis crushed in his muscular arsehole
>>46835143
Any demon, heresy era chaos alliance, perceptuals
>>46835143
The surviving pertetuals if there are any. Maybe a few people inside the Imperial palace.
>>46835200
>>46835207
Just wondering why Bjorn or anyone who remembers doesn't speak up and say how fucktarded everything is. The only example I can think of is Bjorn saying something about calling the emperor a god is what started all the trouble
>>46826552
If Emps had waited, he'd still be alive.
If Emps hadn't fucked around with Luke Skywalker "hurr durr I can redeem you my son" bullshit, he'd still be alive.
>>46835162
Erebus getting Rekt by Kharn was so cathartic
sad he had to use spacemagicbullshit to run
>>46835273
the fucktardness is the only thing keeping it together at all. enemies within and without!
>>46835318
Russ should have really smacked down Typhon at Nikea for being a mouthy little shit. I have no doubt if the Emperor wasn't there in person he would have done it
>>46835273
Space wolves are already seen as border heretical even without their most well know and revered member spouting about how the only thing keeping the imperium together is a bunch of shit.
>>46835318
I wonder if they write any "current" 40k fiction with those two if they'll still have an antagonistic relationship.
I mean I know Kharn by this point will just kill anyone anyways, but I wonder if they would actually make note of his grudge against Erebus.
>>46835419
Is Kharn even capable of having a conversation with anyone in 40k?
>>46835050
He's still in the closet. The dark watchers took him back to the closet so he would feel safe.
>>46835496
He did with Azrael pretty recently, the guy is insane but it looks like he is still capable of rational thinking when not completely pissed.
>>46835550
>Dork Angels still consorting with traitors and heretics
Why am I not surprised?
>>46835143
traitors
>>46835567
Kharn just told him that he knew he was the Dark Angels chapter master because he wore a silly hat. I think we can cross off self awareness from Kharn's ability list.
Also he deduced that someone teleported them on the ship so that they might kill each other. He didn't care who it was or why. He was happy to kill Azrael anyway.
>>46835625
God a cap of it? Did they actually fight, didn't think there was anyone in the DA even capable of standing up to Kharn
>>46835655
It's an audiobook.Azrael lands some good hits but Kharn is just too much. Azrael flees and pursues his real objective.
>>46835655
Azrael got his ass handed to him.
>>46835625
Shit. Azzy fought Kharn? I'm kind of afraid to ask but do I need to buy a new Chapter Master?
>>46835680
Oh god, I'm just imagining the guy voicing Kharn
>>46835698
Well it was fucking Kharn.
>>46835726
Been several Kharn VAs
>>46835793
All of them try to do a Russian accent.
>>46835712
Nah, he survived, but got his whole arm wrecked and shit. Managed to get away and fight alongside Kaldor Draigo (who is actually pretty decent in that book believe it or not), and be a mopey asshole on the planet's surface.
>>46835809
What is Azrael doing with Drago?
I may need to start reading these books. It seems that when I don't pay attention my army gets up to crazy shit.
>>46835935
There's a novel about Warzone Pandorax or something along those lines.
Basically massive Daemonic outbreak happening, and Grey Knights and Dark Angels team up against Abbaddon
Also a real badass is a main character in that book who happens to beone of the founding Grey Knights. So there's actually some lore progression involved too.
>>46836015
Which member was it?
>>46836015Faggot gets cucked by nulls and plays right into the Black Legion's new 'just as planned' bullshit
>>46836211
>Black Legion
Bunch of edgy faggots
>>46836457
Unlike the new poster boys The Crimson Slaughter
>>46836035
I don't remember exactly but I know that he used to be a Dark Angel.
Which becomes a plot point (except not really), sinceDraigo at the end believes that the Dark Angels took them because of their obsession with the Fallen.
>>46837951
So did they take him for the old 'torture and repent' or was it a 'haha welcome back Battle Brother' type deal?
>>46840163They never met (leaving Azrael extremely confused by Draigo's accusatory tantrum), but Epimetheus expected that latter. He figured that since he was sent back to Caliban and only left through some to-do with Cypher that even a Lord of Change found confusing, he avoided being Fallen by luck and shared some of the guilt. That said, he probably earned the former, seeing as he point blank refused to tell Draigo anything about the Unforgiven's inner workings out of loyalty to the Legion.
>>46826762
>Kurzefag and ND are the same person
Wut?
>>46842789
>he point blank refused to tell Draigo anything about the Unforgiven's inner workings out of loyalty to the Legion.
;_;7
What a fucking hero. I'm going to name my next Dreadnought after him.
>>46843043
>"I have been privy to Azrael's thoughts ever since he arrived on Pythos."
>"Hence your reluctance to reveal you presence to him."
>"What would you know of that?" Epimetheus countered.
>"Not nearly enough. But if you were to share what you have found in the recesses of his mind..."
>Some vestige of Epimetheus' former loyalties rose to the fore. "All men have secrets, and Azrael is entitled to his. Just like what I know of your future Kaldor Draigo, and choose to keep that knowledge from you."
>"My future?" Draigo sent. "What happens to me in the future?"
>"You will find out soon enough, as you will be the one to live it." Epimetheus replied.
>>46844367
Truly the Dark Angels are the masters of Tactical Deflection
>>46826608
What are you talking about? Lion is high tier, Russ is medium and Rowboat is way way low.
Killer tier: Chaos Horus, Sanguinius, Angron, Fulgrim (two Primarch kills to Angron's zero sorry haters)
Top Tier: Lion, Kurze, Khan, Ferrus
Medium Tier: Russ and everybody else
Best Behind a Desk Tier: Gulliman, Lorgar
>>46827796
Anybody who spends five minutes in Russ's presence wants to clock his annoying ass
The Lion is just the one that did it
>>46845359
Accurate, although after Lorgar's ascension I'd put him in the killer tier. People seem to forget that he's one of the most powerful psykers after Emps, Magnus and Malcador.
For some reason everyone thinks Guilliman is some sort of master strategist or the best general amongst the Primarchs. No he bloody isn't. He's the best statesman and spokesperson, hence his popularity, but he's not the best tactician.
In fact, the Lion has been lauded as the best tactician and strategist out of the Primarchs. Even Horus quietly admitted that the position for Warmaster was a race between him and the Lion. But Horus had something the Lion didn't; social skills. The Primarchs needed to be both great strategists and leaders for their people.
And here is the Lion's downfall; he's straight-up not good with people, hence his reliance on Luther before things when south and Luther double-crossed the Lion by not telling him about the nuke on the Saroshi shuttle.
I'd imagine most of you would be a bit shit with people if you spent the first ten years of your life trying to not to get eaten by Warp-tainted monsters.
>>46848219
I think of it more as a manifestation of The Emperor's flaws. Existing as a being of immense spiritual power and the knowledge of a million dead shaman who saw the past and the future, it's hard to see eye-to-eye with the busboy at Applebees.
The Lion is a direct manifestation of that distance, he just doesn't get the little people.
>>46848906
Bingo. Kind of what I was gettin' at. It's a combination of nature + nurture. The nature part being the Emperor's inability to empathise or relate being genetic, combined with spending the first ten years as a wild child only knowing how to survive, and you've got a recipe for a socially stunted demigod warrior.
>>46845010
It's almost a Chapter Tactic at this point.
>>46849635
He also has the fun time of thinking that he is the chaos for quite a few years.
IIRC he wondered if he was just another Chaos Beast plaguing the planet in a different form for a long time.
>>46825858
yes, if he would have acted sooner than he did very much yes.
>>46852103
That is true. In fact, it may be part of his personal motivation to purge all the Calibanite beasts. A "Hunt", you might say. To prove that he was not one of them, a bestial savage.
The Dark Angels of how we know them - bathrobe clad, passive-aggressive motherfuckers they are, emulate their Primarch more than they realise. The Hunt shows them going after their Fallen brothers to prove that they are not one of them, in the same way the Lion did with the beasts.
