What do you guys think about Redwall, I remember really liking the books when I was younger and played with the idea of making a 5th edition DnD game based in the setting. (Races Reskinned) However I think the stigma of being seen as a furry is turning players off the idea. Have furries really ruined this setting or is it still possible to enjoy and use?
They aren't really furry IMO. Look at Mouseguard as a start.
>>46823014
Just say from the start that you don't want any weird sex stuff and that should be that.
>>46823014
It's wholly possible to have a Redwall game. You might want to try and avoid some of the pitfalls of the series to have a more complex game for adults - namely the black and white morality that borders on racism (all vermin are evil). That being said, I think that keeping the heroic tone is important. Just because you add in complexity is no reason to to grimdark it up.
I disagree with >>46823092 , however. Mouseguard is a fantastic series and a great game, but despite the similar trappings, isn't very much like Redwall. In Mouseguard, a mouse is a mouse. A ferret or weasel is a deadly, mouse-killing monster that would probably take a pair or more mice to kill. A wolf or, God forbid, a bear, is basically a force of nature. Mouseguard is very focused on matters of scale.
Redwall, on the other hand, is essentially heroic fantasy, where the different species are more like races in a traditional D&D game. That is to say, a mouse is basically like a vole or a shrew or a squirrel. And while an otter or a hare is certainly bigger than a mouse, they're not so different that they both can't be in the same party. A skilled warrior mouse could face a fox in one on one combat, easily. What this means is that differences in species and size are more about narrative permission and niches. Squirrels climb, otters swim, shrews boat, badgers smash, etc.
This is why I would lean towards a more modular, narrative system. I'd reach for Fate, or even Risus, before I'd reach for Mouseguard.
GURPS could be interesting, but I think that'd be more work than I'd personally want to put into statting out the characters.
>>46823210
This right here. If someone turns out to be a furry and they throw a fit about this, don't try to reason with them, just grab a weapon and get them the fuck out of there.
>>46823014
I remember Redwall fondly, but the series felt incredibly repetitive after a dozen books or so. If you want another series which is quite similar, look up The Mistmantle Chronicles.
To my knowledge, furries haven't "ruined the setting" and it's been so long that most people probably don't even remember anyone discussing it. As long as your players are fine with talking humanoid animals - despite what 4chan indicates, most people just think it too kiddy, not some furry bias - then there really isn't any reason to avoid it.
For systems, IronClaw obviously comes to mind. It's already designed for various different critters to run around in a party, although the IronClaw mouse/otter/badger might not be exactly what you have in mind for Redwall. The only concern there is, if you are worries about people thinking you furry with Redwall, then bringing out the IronClaw book won't help any. I have to agree with >>46823290 this, in that Mouse Guard is really not a good system for your idea. You might be able to hack it together into something interesting if you are familiar with Burning Wheel and mess around with the Natures a bit, but by default it's small mice against a large world - not a bunch of animal-people adventuring together.
Outside that, most systems that let you put together your own race should work out just fine. D&D should work. Fate Core would work, with the species being an free aspect for everyone. Savage Worlds should work fine as well. I think that pretty much any fantasy or generic system should work out okay, as long as you can design a character race without too much difficulty.
>>46823014
The one book I recall the most from the Redwall series is The Taggerung. Interesting plot development that one.
I also remember getting the munchies every time I read a Redwall book. Brian Jacques loved playing out the those feast and cooking scenes.
>>46827014
He originally came up with the concept while telling stories at a school for the blind, so he loved to be very descriptive about things other than sight, things blind kids could relate to.
Like food.
My favorite of the series is The Long Patrol, but that's because I fuckin' love the hares.
>>46827128
agreed, the demeanor and characteristics of the hares throughout the books is the best. The Imperial British Officer influence is inspired.
>Carnivores are evil and herbivores are good
>Badgers somehow get a free pass, despite their primary diet being mice
I read them years and years ago. The single image that stuck with me all this time was the big ship lodged between the rocks suspended over the water. Don't remember which book it was from.
>>46827424
Oh yeah, they tried to address that at one point with a ferret raised in Redwall. It's widely regarded as the worst point in the series. I guess they just needed some creature that was big, bulky, dangerous, and nice-looking.
>>46827014
>>46827128
My favorite was probably Marlfox, thanks in part to it being the first one I read.
Other than that, probably Salamandastron or Long Patrol really stand out. I seem to recall one book where they ran off to some foreign land, where some fluffy rabbit wanted to join the Long Patrol, and where the main villain had found a dead wolf and wore it's skin as a coat... but I don't recall which one that was. They've bled together quite a bit at this point.
>>46827424
Yeah, that was always strange. It was also fairly annoying how they ended up portraying the rats/stoats/etc as always-evil, even when raised in Redwall as >>46827623 mentioned. That same book had an otter raised by rats, who ended up "still good" in the end despite doing a bunch of really awful stuff.
>>46827426
Legend of Luke
>>46827836
>tfw signed copy of Long Patrol.
That one was pretty epic.
>>46827836
I always liked Triss. Taggerung was my second favorite, in competition with Rakkety Tam (seriously, how is that one not more popular?) But yeah, he needed to tone down the blatant racism, just a little.
>>46828123
Eh, it was fine enough when the rats were just evil asshole pirates wandering around. They were cartoony villains, but they served their purpose of being evil, if repetitive, antagonists.
It's when he tried to make them a bit sympathetic that things went wrong.
That said, I need to sit down and read through my collection sometime soon. I'm getting the details of different stories mixed up, and I don't even recall which ones I haven't read yet.
I actually had an idea for a Redwall RPG plot that I wanted to run using Fate. The main thrust of the story was that Salamandastron had been so long without a Badger Lord or any coastal raids by pirates that most hares had established farming villages and given up the military life, save for an old guard in the mountain training a few green recruits. But they're all seen as a little unnecessary given the lengthy peace.
So the mountain is totally unprepared for a siege and takeover by an albatross warlord and his barbarian flock of gannets and gulls. Some young goodbeasts from Redwall would be essential in rallying the hares around the sword of Martin the Warrior as well as installing the next Badger Lord.
Wouldn't mind reading these for the first time as an adult but they are expensive and for some reason only sell them as singles. Would have to get them from the library and I think I might have fines or some shit.
>>46823014
Mouse Guard > Redwall
Mouse Guard mice feel more like actual MICE, living in a world full of kaiju-sized animals ready to bring their civilization crashing down around them. Redwall is just another fantasy setting with a melting pot of anthropic races on a smaller scale.
>>46823014
I ran a pretty successful Redwall game using the Ironclaw system. We didn't get very far but the few games we did manage to play were awesome.
>>46828123
>Blatant racism
This trope's been around since Tolkien (DUDE ORCS ARE TOTALLY STAND-INS FOR BLACKS) and it's just as retarded now. It's a fantasy story for kids. You need bad guys. Brian chose ferrets and rats and a couple of foxes.
There is no racial component beyond modern PC sensibilities preventing anyone from enjoying anything.
>>46831031
Read the "Outcast of Redwall" again and tell me you're not getting some uncomfortable vibes from Veil's parts. I know I did when I've read it, and I was, like, eight at the time.
>>46831311
Sure. He was a weird kid who ended up the hero of the novel despite having an asshole dad.
More inspiring than racist.
>>46831340
Uh... No? And that's the whole problem?
Sure, the story did center around him. Sometimes. But the protagonist wasn't Veil - it was the badger man, whose name I don't even remember anymore. In fact, Veil did nothing but villainous shit for the whole novel. I guess, he sort of redeemed himself in the very end, when he sacrificed his life to save his mother - I mean, you would think so? Except that's clearly not what the author thinks, because his adopted mother then disowns him and claims that he was always evil. Cue to the whole abbey cheering to her realizing the truth.
Basically, Veil was a kid, who was raised to be a good boy, but instead he became an evil murderous dindu. Which leads us to the moral of the story - nature wins over nurture, and certain kinds of people are born evil.
My favorite's Mariel of Redwall.
Mainly due to the huge focus on the searat pirates and the awesome scenes devoted to the abbey siege.
Redwall was the bomb. My mom read the books to me when I was a wee lad and we played basic RPGs using this as a setting.
I guess you could use Mouse Guard as a base, tweaking the mice to make them more powerful if you want a more heroic game, closer to the tone.
I remember the battles with Snakes in Mouse Guard being terribly brutal, which fits Redwall too.
>Asssmodeusss
>>46827623
Badgers are adored by the luvvies here in the UK for some reason, even when they're spreading TB around.
Check out the book of cairn, it's a pretty rules light rpg with all the various races from Redwall already built into it
>>46830713
>actual MICE, living in a world full of kaiju-sized animals
Redwall started out like that. At one point Martin even stumbles into a colossal barn and chats with a housecat.
Jacques quietly dropped that aspect of the series though.
Picked up pic related at the weekend, not had the chance to play it yet so I don't know if it's any good.
As soon as I heard about it I had to get it though, it's basically X-wing but with mice riding birds.
>>46823014
Oh man, I had forgotten about this series until just now, I kind of want to go back and reread some of them to see how they stack up. From what I remember they had some surprisingly deep lore and seem like they would make a great setting for a campaign.
>>46831425
It isn't racist, you effete moron. Veil was the hero of that book - he sacrifices himself to save his foster mom. He's on the cover for a reason.
>>46823014
>However I think the stigma of being seen as a furry is turning players off the idea
People who are legitimately concerned about Redwall/Mouseguard being "furry" aren't people you want to game with.
>>46823014
>However I think the stigma of being seen as a furry is turning players off the idea.
Are people really retarded enough to do this?
Is everything with anthropomorphic animals Furry now?
Is everything where anything that could even remotely be interpreted as sexual magical realm now?
Is everything with religion either fedoratipping or fanatism now?
People really need to stop worrying what other people could maybe, possibly think and just play games.
>>46823014
Totally enjoyable. Just screen all players to make sure they aren't a furry. If they are, explain how you don't want a sexualized/oddity bias in the game, as that's not what Redwall is about.
Definitely look into the mouse guard rpg.
>>46834681
Honestly, going by what happens to around half f threads here involving all three of the things you mentioned, I have to assume the anwser is "yeah, pretty much".
I'm honestly shocked that this one hasn't been choked to death by people shouting "yiff in hell" becasue animal people trigger them.
