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>Monday Meeting Notes
http://theonyxpath.com/all-pitched-out-monday-meeting-notes/

>Thousand Steel Teeth Spoilers
http://theonyxpath.com/get-your-motor-running/

Have any of you ever played in any alternate settings? Any of the Shards from Mirrors, or maybe the Chronicler's Guide options? Has anyone done Dark Era stuff yet?

There was a bit of talk last thread of fantasy WoD. How would you go about handling that kind of thing?

I really want to run an Innistrad/Castlevania/Van Helsing inspired Hunter game set in a fantasy world

>>46821470
i'm planning to do a sundered world one-shot when Mage 2E drops. It's gonna be about a circle of the wise fending off some spirits+hunter-cultists who figured out their god-hunting bullshit and are intent on making them pay for it. Also it's in the dead of winter.

>>46821245
>Emotional Urging also isn't the same thing as Psychic Domination.

Yeah, she could have argued that at the local Consilium, the place such disputes are supposed to be resolved, but instead she mind controlled a bunch of kids to brutally kill another mage.

Lucy seems sort of whiny and self-centered. She's not particularly impressive as a mage. A Gnosis 3 Acanus with only Fate 2, Time 1, Mind 3, Prime 1 and Life 1. More than sufficient to have caught her cancer early and been treatable (even without magic), but not a particularly strong demonstration of commitment to the study of the Mysteries.

Even without the murder, it's no wonder she's not liked by local mages , she apparently has no mage contacts out of the area, and no one wants to help her without something significant in return (and she was at first willing to do some *very* questionable things for help).

I can only imagine how the Lucy Sulphate stories might have been spun if she wasn't based on a favorite PC of Wood Ingham.

Her Wisdom 7 also seems a little fishy.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46134633/#46167430

>>46821893

These are mages who kill Pangaeans in the Stone Age.

An entire Wise Circle versus some spirits and human cultists during winter will be a turkey shoot.

>>46822011
>These are mages who kill Pangaeans in the Stone Age.
There's groups of mages who still fight for their lives to kill Pangaeans.

>>46821470
i've always wanted to run a Requiem game without clans desu senpai.

or a "supernaturals have fucked the earth" setting

>>46822114
What?

>>46822135
It doesn't imply anywhere that a single mage kills a Pangaean. It takes a group of them to kill Fox and it was close even then. And several groups went out to kill Urfarah and didn't even make it past the werewolves that hang around him.

>>46822177
Ah. You meant it like that. I read that as there are mages who are still fighting pangaeans in the modern day.

>>46822177

Mages killed more than just Fox, and a few spirits and cultists are nowhere remotely in the same league as Father Wolf. Also recall that in the setting a single Wise often protects entire villages from threats both mundane and supernatural.

As per the prior Anon, a group of spirits and cultists vs. an entire Circle of the Wise is not going to go very well for the spirits and mortal humans, and that's before factoring in issues like the weather (which is little more than a small passing annoyance for a Storm Wise).

>>46822177
It takes a group of their best blood-wise from multiple circles.

>>46822338
Don't be an idiot. It's a plot hook that works. Even a group of mages can't handle a variety of spirits, some spirits are beyond mage control, and a group of humans can easily take down a mage, especially when helped by a spirit.

>>46822418

In a Neolithic Stone Age setting as described in Dark Eras, a group of humans, even with a few spirits, stand little chance against a single Wise, no less an entire Circle, the match-up suggested by the prior Anon.

An unexpected success against one of the Wise would simply result in more Circles joining together to quickly eliminate the threat.

The power disparity between mages and anything else is even more grossly disproportional than today due to the lack of technology and communication.

>>46822515
Then why are the mages afraid of them finding out?

Maybe you should read the section again before you start telling people how they can't run their games like, you know, a cunt.

>>46822550
>Then why are the mages afraid of them finding out?

Because it would challenge and upend the fundamental beliefs of the People and cast the Wise as murderers.

>>46822550
That's just Branford, he doesn't read books, only Word of Dave, and thinks hunters not having much of a chance against Mages means they can never kill them

He's the one who always brings up the Mage supremacy shit.

>>46822654
>only Word of Dave

Yeah, what would Dave know about anything...

>>46822806
The problem is he only hears what he wants. Dave has never said Mages are supreme or infallible. Either have the books.

>>46822338

Is that really a problem, though? It's not like the whole adventure's going to be a combat dogpile, there's the actual mystery and tracking aspects to it too. I've learned pretty early on that when it comes to running WoD, your story arc centerpiece probably shouldn't be a traditional combat scenario.

Is there a way to get 5th level disciplines as Thin-Blooded in oWoD? I'm trying to keep up with some boys who are twice as strong as me and not having access to better disciplines is making it tough.

>>46821015
>>46821862
Not all spirits are animal-like.

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Hey guys, I never read the CofD Mage books but I kind of feel like getting up to speed.
Think I should delve in 1e or wait (however long) for 2e?

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>>46821389
Post some fishy malkavians.

>>46822991

Mage 2e will be out in a week, maybe two, and it's really not worth forcing yourself to read Mage 1e's god-awful core to get to the supplements (where the game actually got good) just so you can relearn all of the good parts in 2e's core.

>>46822011
i'm hoping to give them a run for their money against a horde of experienced, veteran & supernaturally-empowered hunter-cultists. Plus I don't necessarily want the mages to lose. I just want it to be fun & challenging combat+the rest of the one-shot is probably going to entail figuring out how the cultists figured out that the Wise are murdering Pangeans for their hearts.

>>46822939

I think if the original Anon who suggested the Wise Circle vs. cultists and spirits idea wants to maintain the default setting, he should bulk-up the capabilities of the latter with a werewolf pack, Rank 6 spirit or something equally deadly to even out the odds, or reduce the Circle to only one or two wise.

>>46822991
May as well wait, at this point.
Any week now.
Aaaany week now.

>>46823075

Make some of the hunters Claimed, and you'll boost their threat level significantly.

It might also be a nice surprise for both the humans and the Wise.

>>46823081
>rank 6 spirit to even out the odds
a rank 6 spirit would destroy most mages effortlessly

>>46823068
>>46823104
That's exactly what I wanted to know.
Thanks guys!

>>46822991

Definitely wait for 2e. It'll be out within weeks if not sooner.

If the spoilers can be trusted, you'll get a great overview of the setting without any 1e prejudice or confusion. You can then buy the books concerning the topics you find interesting, such as Imperial Mysteries, Left-Handed Path, Seers of the Throne, any of the Order books, etc.

However, don't forget to ask around before buying any 1e books. Some will be far more compatible (and higher quality) than others.

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>>46823081
>he should bulk-up the capabilities of the latter with a werewolf pack, Rank 6 spirit or something equally deadly to even out the odds.

>>46823132

A Rank 6 spirit versus and an entire experienced Circle of the Wise would be a great fight

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>>46823132
Frankly, so would a Rank 5 spirit. Or Rank 4.

Here's the Sparkblood Seneschal.

Its blast attack has a dice pool of 22 to do +0L damage, that's enough to kill people in one shot even thru armor

>>46823234
if it makes you feel better the "rank 6 spirit" thing was clearly a shitpost.
The mages in this game are going to be starting characters +10XP, no buying up inferior arcana. They're not going to be godlings by any stretch.

>>46823104
>>46823068
Every time anyone thinks about Mage 2e coming out, it's delayed by another hour.

>>46823286
Don't all mages start with +1000 XP? How else can they be true to the setting?

>>46823308

Every time someone complains about Mage delays, an Obrimos get his (Nimbus) wings.

>>46823342
>tfw the Obrimos are your favorite Path aesthetically but you literally cannot think up a single character concept for them

>>46823320

Obviously, no.

However, due to the extreme versatility of the the Arcana, a diverse mid-level, mid-sized cabal really is much stronger than the sum of its parts.

>>46823370
This is my problem for all Mage paths.

Which is why I don't play Mage.

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>>46823320
ohg fuck i checked the book adn youre right. all mages are supposed to come out of character creation with all arcana maxed and if i'm reading this right, a template ability that makes everyone who sees them really horny & desperate to give them lots of money.

>>46822654
What proof do you have, other than being a weirdo stalker?

No one even brings up "mage supremacy" except people who hate Mage and think that Mages are Mary Sues who ruin the setting and have everything revolve around them.

>>46823081
Rank 6 spirit would level the entire location.

>>46822550

Worth remembering that the Awakened rely on their people for things and also - by and large - probably like their friends and relatives. Even a Thyrsus, who can run off and live in the wild, probably appreciates the ability to sleep in a home and know other people are guarding them as they sleep instead of planning to slit their throats.

Saying you killed a god who, up until this point, had been your ally is kinda gonna make them look at you differently. For good reason. You murderous psychopath.

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>>46823016
The classic.

>>46823370

Obrimos are probably the easiest Path for character concepts. They're the most stereotypically "wizardly" of all the Paths.

Start by picking character from the Bible (or religious book of choice) or any famous scientist or philosopher for a thematic hook, choose an Order for the character to give them a motivation, tweak a little to help them fit with other PC's, and poof, ready to go Obrimos.

>>46823370
Priest who hungers for glimpse of God and has joined the Echo Walkers.

>>46823537
>You murderous psychopath

Hogwash! If those uppity Pangaeans weren't willing to help the People after being asked very nicely and offered fair trade, then they deserved everything that happened to them.

Besides, at least the Wise aren't as bad as those idiot werewolves. They destroyed the Border Marches and started a civil war among their own kind.

>>46823685
>offered fair trade,
How'd that work, did they offer their own souls in return?

>>46823685
Pangaea was dying off already. Honestly I blame the Exarchs, mother wolf was to great of a threat to them.

>>46823685
>started a civil war among their own kind.
they weren't a country, still aren't, and the factions started forming way before pangaea fell

>>46823391

I mean, I'm dying to play an Acanthus archaeologist who (BIG SURPRISE INCOMING) is digging up the Nameless Empire by following the strands of Time and Fate.

I mostly just want to see an Acanthus that isn't a flighty fey asshole embodying The Fool card.

>>46823726
I would very much enjoy a campaign that could save Pangaea. Maybe with time-traveling mages who wind up there.

>>46823700

They are the Wise. By definition, anything they offered was a "fair trade." Who are you to think otherwise?

More seriously, the book does imply the mages were actually trying everything in good faith to get the help of the Pangaeans, and then finally snapped when they were ignored every single time.

>>46823777
>Acanthus
>Not an asshole

Does not compute.

That's like an Obrimos who isn't arrogant or an insecure Mastigos.

They might exist in theory, but are never actually seen in the wild.

>>46823614
Just looked at the legacy. Its pretty cool actually.

>>46823800
They got the help of the Pangaeans, they wanted more and started stealing their souls.

>>46823966

Bull and Bird originally helped, and they were revered.

As the People grew and expanded, they desperately needed more Omphalos Stones, and sought additional help, trying whatever they could to amicably procure them.

The Pangaeans didn't just refuse the Wise or make absurd demands, they mostly just dismissively *ignored* the mages, and thus the plight of the People. Very rude and frustrating.

Well, the People got their stones, and Fox and others aren't ignoring them any more...

>>46824137

I have to wonder; if Eater of Names can't be reached and has been busy doing whatever Firstborn without Tribes do for the last several thousand years, might some small piece of Fox make for a good Lodge totem dedicated to hunting mages?

>>46824137
>As the People grew and expanded, they desperately needed more Omphalos Stones, and sought additional help, trying whatever they could to amicably procure them.
The Wise wanted Omphalos stones
>The Pangaeans didn't just refuse the Wise or make absurd demands, they mostly just dismissively *ignored* the mages, and thus the plight of the People. Very rude and frustrating.
>they were ignored or rebuked, or turned aside
>Well, the People got their stones, and Fox and others aren't ignoring them any more...
The Wise got them, because they decided their want was the most important thing

>if she didn't want me to fuck her, she shouldn't have gone out on a date with me

Trying to portray it as heroic or justified makes it seem like you've got some issues of your own

>>46823777
>I mostly just want to see an Acanthus that isn't a flighty fey asshole embodying The Fool card.
Considering that's not the default Acanthus in 2e at all anymore, I don't think you need to go into crossover territory to get that.

>>46823859
I've been playing an insecure Mastigos for a while now.

He's got a Derangement he can't cure and he's terrified of people finding out.

>>46824492

No one better discover it. He'll be the butt of all the jokes from his Mastigos friends.

It should be something easily cured or mitigated. Has your Mastigos ignored his studies in Mind?

He need to buck up, investigate some juicy Mysteries, fix his problems, and stop humiliating his entire Path.

>tfw no psychedelic 1960s Mage/Changeling/Hunter crossover era

>>46824760
You could always write it yourself.

>>46824816

I'm waiting for Ken Hite to do all the hard work in Fall of Delta Green; once that's out, I can just replace the Cthulhu stuff with CofD.

Apparently my uncle smoked dope with some members of the Manson cult back during the 60s.

>>46823068
Mage 2e is never coming out.

>>46824928

Even if it doesn't, that'd still be a better game than Mage 1e.

>>46824635
He's figured out that it goes deeper than that and there's something wrong with his soul.

It's a Mystery he's working on, preferably without anyone else finding out and deciding he's Mad or something.

>>46824410
Are you seriously siding with the pangaeans? Over the mages trying to keep humanity alive? Really?

>>46825686
>Over the mages trying to keep humanity alive? Really?
Not that guy, but to be fair, the omphalos stones were more of a luxury than a necessity. The Mages killed for them because they wanted the power they offered, primarily long distance communication through the Astral. Not because without it, humanity would die.

>>46825686
>Pangeans did nothing wrong

>>46825686

Humanity was--by definition, since the whole crux of the conflict was that there were too many humans for the omphalos stones given freely--not really struggling to be alive.

All the Wise had to do was say "Yo, we're kind of eating the metaphorical grain faster than we can grow it, maybe chill the fuck out for a couple years." and there wouldn't have been any need for murder.

But, nope, impatience and greed won out.

>>46825686
They destroyed the pillars of the world because they wanted iphones.

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>>46825950
Would do the same to be honest.

>>46825839

#PangeanLivesMatter

>>46825950
The werewolves are the ones that really did that, though.

>>46826002
They killed Mother Wolf because they thought it was the right thing to do.

The Wise killed Pangaeans because they wanted to talk to their buddies without having to walk.

>>46826064

I really wish the Pure were slightly less outrageously dickish because "maybe killing our dad was a bad idea" is an interesting viewpoint, but then they're human-hating zealous monsters who torture people.

>>46826104
They seem to be less human-hating in 2e (there's a community of amish Pure, and during the war between the Fre-touched and Forsaken the ivory claws brokered a peace). plus they could probably rez Mother Wolf

>>46826104
>"maybe killing our dad was a bad idea"

The Pure have literally the opposite viewpoint, though? The single thing that unifies the Pure separate from the Forsaken was that Luna was like "LOOK AT WHAT YOU DID, FUCK." and the Pure were like "didnu nuffin, bitch, fuck off."

Like, whether the Forsaken think it was necessary or not, the fact they ARE Forsaken, and thus ultimately working towards Luna's forgiveness, essentially means they agree it was a bad idea.

>>46825834
>>46825890
>>46825950

The battle for survival, resources and dominance is as old as time itself, and involves humans, animals, spirits, Pangaeans and everything else. The Pangaeans also had no compunction about preying on humanity when it suited them.

I will not be shedding any tears for the Pangaeans that died so humanity could survive, grow and prosper, and certainly no more than the remorse they felt when they killed humans for their own inscrutable reasons.

The stones were not luxury baubles or trinkets like iphones. This was the Neolithic Era, and the communication facilitated by the stones was often the only thing standing between a community's survival and starvation, predation or far worse.

The Wise tried to negotiate and trade fairly with the Pangaeans. They should have listened.

>>46826267
What about all those regions that didn't have Omphalos Stones?

Could a Spirit imitate the Christian god?

>>46826267
you're the guy who's pro nambla, aren't you?

>>46826267
No one's saying you should shed tears, but you are clearly deluding yourself about the idea in order to put the Wise on some pedestal.

>>46825686
Technically they're just trying to spread humanity to new villages.

>>46826342

Sucked to be them.

The other societies encountered by the Wise in their astral and physical journeys are also implied to have done some terrible and unspeakable things to survive and prosper.

It would hardly be surprising if the other cultures around the globe at this time committed far worse atrocities than slaying some monsters, most of whom cared nothing about human lives.

>>46826358
Yes. There's probably one in every church eating up all the essence people generate every Sunday, using Sign to make a bearded face appear in toast, and whispering in people's heads to urge them to do things 'in the name of God!'

>>46826367

WTF are you talking about?

You've apparently never studied any real life history, both ancient or modern, comprehend how the survival of the fittest is the rule of the animal kingdom, nor read how in the CofD setting beings like spirits constantly compete for resources without conscience or regard for others.

If you believe incorporating these basic precepts into The Sundered World Setting when discussing the Pangaeans somehow is the equivalent to support for NAMBLA, you are ignorant and disturbed.

>>46826402

Not really putting the Wise on a pedestal, as more acknowledging how they could reasonably believe what they were doing was essential for the survival of the People, and how they might not feel much regret since most Pangaeans had no qualms about killing humans when it suited them.

This event can easily be framed within the context or narrative of innumerable real life historical conflicts.

I also reject any purported supernatural cultural relativism when discussing this fiction period.

>>46826594
oh no, the NAMBLA thing was because Aspel was for the legalization of sex with children. considering your trolling and stupidity I was basically asking if you were aspel

and survival of the fittest isn't the rule of the animal kingdom, it's a simplified motto of a theory about how evolution works, based on the most evolutionarily fit, not the strongest

also you know that the pangaeans were not spirits, they are the base of the world, and killing and stealing their souls so they could astral travel was not a necessity (see how we in real life survived without ancestors who astral travel), it was a luxury

>>46826745
>Not really putting the Wise on a pedestal,
You clearly are.

Every time you mention their reasons, you say it was just to help humanity survive (which the book refutes). And every time you mention the Pangaean reaction to them wanting more of their souls, you say the Pangaeans "rudely" ignored them (also not what the book says). And you say it was needed for humanity to survive (which isn't true either). You're even saying the Pangaeans deserved it because they occasionally killed people (who knew not to go into Pangaea). That's why I mentioned you condoning date-rape before, as you believe your side deserves whatever it wants from the other side.

>>46826785

Our ancestors also didn't have to contend with terrible supernatural threats.

The fight for resources and dominance is universal, and while you may object to the killing of the Pangaeans, it certainly was understandable in the context of human history and experience.

>>46826745
Couldn't they have gone after those Pangaeans then? I don't think Fox deserved to die.

>>46826912
>Our ancestors also didn't have to contend with terrible supernatural threats.
Which didn't require astral travel to beat.

>>46826866

Do you realize that the Pangaens sometimes left the Border Marches and did terrible things to people?

You also fail to acknowledge the entirety of warfare and conflict in human history.

You might not agree with what the Wise did to the Pangaeans, but if you cannot understand why it happened or how reasonable people might support it, you don't understand human psychology and lack imagination.

Within the context of the CofD and The Sundered World, are you really surprised that people would support humans over monsters?

>>46821389
What with Chronicles of Darkness in the picture should we just cut off the WoD shit and let them have their own threads? I know they don't tend to last but sometimes they do, and there's clearly some shitty types who really need to edition war so long after the fact.

>>46826947

The Wise didn't kill all Pangaeans. In fact, they probably only killed a few.

You need to speak with Father Wolf, the Firstborn and their werewolf kin if you want to really discuss the issue of Pangaean mass murder.

>>46826996
>Which didn't require astral travel to beat.

Says you, judging safely after the fact from the comfort of the 21st century.

Just like all real life historical events, understanding requires appropriate context.

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>Always wanted to play World Of Darkness rather than GM
>Get Invited to a Mage game my favorite splat
>Really hyped, make a fate/space acanthus Mage
>Want to teleport enemy into a box
> Sorry anon you need Space 4 and Life 3
>other players try to do shit
>he constantly names arcana we don't have and tries to justify it

Who made this guy GM?

>>46827021
>Do you realize that the Pangaens sometimes left the Border Marches and did terrible things to people?
And another Pangaean would kill them for it.

>You also fail to acknowledge the entirety of warfare and conflict in human history.
Since it has nothing to do with this, yeah.

>You might not agree with what the Wise did to the Pangaeans, but if you cannot understand why it happened or how reasonable people might support it, you don't understand human psychology and lack imagination.
Right...
I already explained how it worked. You look at the book and ignore the parts you don't like. The Wise wanted more omphalos for their own power. Stealing the souls of the primeval deities of the Border Marches was how they got it. I understand greed quite well. Odds are either one of us can open google and find a recent article of someone killing someone else for something stupid.

>Within the context of the CofD and The Sundered World, are you really surprised that people would support humans over monsters?
You seem to be confused. Neolithic, Roman or Modern Age, Mages are monsters. They're just acting monstrously. You're attributing a sense of generosity and heroism to them that the book doesn't infer.

>>46827149
No, the book is pretty clear on that. Wards were primarily used to defend the People, and alliances made with spirits. Astral travel was so that they could organize among themselves.

>>46827021
>>46827188
>Do you realize that the Pangaens sometimes left the Border Marches and did terrible things to people?
>And another Pangaean would kill them for it.

Most Pangaeans keep to their own unfathomable business, building colossal palaces or rending chasms in a manner that suits their whims. Bird and Snake dwell in the vast rivers. Rat once carved out a warren of tunnels and filled them with beauti-ful things. Bull tramples swathes of the Marches flat, pounding
it to dust beneath his ten thousand hooves. The God of Spring coils and writhes beneath the ground, emerging from time to time to feed on the bounty of life that erupts in its presence.
Pangaeans are not always so passive and instinctual, how-ever. They are interested in the matters of both their material and spiritual counterparts — but Wolf’s one great law would forbid them from interfering. By Urfarah’s command, the gods must remain in the Border Marches. Yet a seasonal goddess wishes to fix the world under her part of the cycle forever; an animal god tries to stir his children to plaguesome levels of population; the Great Mountain enslaves a human tribe so that they might build vast and pointless earthworks that pour Essence to hungry earth elementals in the Shadow.
And so the Wolf hunts.

>>46827165
>Sorry anon you need Space 4 and Life 3
Well he's not wrong

>When they found Fox wise and vermillion,
and begged her thus, she refused too, and finally the Wise grew angry beyond reason. They did the unthinkable, and sought to bind Fox and take her heart from her by force.

Even the book says they were unreasonable.

Quick questions;

Reading threw beast and there are two things I can't find:

1) the stats for your horror; yes I see the little thing on page 99 but how does it want me to calculate its health, defense etc when the blurb only shows power, finesse, resistance and size? Is it the same as you or is the damn thing built like a spirit? Does it use a part of the dream walking thing I missed. Feel like I'm missing something or am a moron. Probably both.

2)what the hell happens when you and your horror merge? No really why am I having a hard time finding were this shit is? You would think this stuff would be front and center like werewolf shape shifting but no, as far as I can tell, when you and your horror merge you take the worse off health track and thats it.

>>46827165
>constantly names arcana we don't have and tries to justify it
Have you considered reading the practices so you try to do things that you can actually do? At least get creative at it.
You only need Space 3 to open a portal under a guy's feet and link it to the top of the box (or the sky for that matter). They'll get a chance to resist or get out of the way and it would be a ritual at Space 3, but you can pull it off.

>>46827397

Why are some people so shocked and angered at the small handful of Pangaeans killed by Wise, whose hearts were then used to benefit the People, but no one complains at all about the many Pangaeans killed by werewolves?

It appears there's a supernatural double standard.

>>46827501

We don't really know how many were killed by Werewolves, or why they were.

>>46827501

You do remember that the literal central theme of Werewolf as a gameline is the protagonists going "Damn, we fucked up bad, we fucked up real bad." and trying to make amends for it, right?

Like that's kind of a whole huge thing?

While one particular Mage fan is trying to cast what the Mages did as some kind of necessity, perfectly founded in reason, in spite of the texts of the actual book.

Or, in short:
Werewolves fucked up, Werewolves spent literally all of human civilization making up for it, and still working on it.

Mages fucked up, one Mage fan decides they were good boys who dindu nuffin, gets told he's an idiot.

this thread is absolute shit

post your ideas for bloodlines/lodges/legacies

>>46827549
Reworked Norvegi focusing on the Draugr myths of norse vikings.

>>46827165

Teleporting people is not easy, no less for starting characters. It appears that the spell you discuss actually requires Space 4 / Life 3.

As another Anon indicated, it appears that your group might not yet fully grasp the Arcana, Practices and spellcasting system, or alternatively, you might simply need or want to start with more powerful characters to fully enjoy your chronicle.

You really need to talk to the other players and you GM to set appropriate expectations.

>>46827549
>this thread is absolute shit

Sometimes people just don't want to discuss Mummy, ancient Egypt or related topics.

Better luck next thread.

Once The Pack, Mage and the Dark Eras Companion are released, you should be satisfied.

>>46827549

To be totally honest, I am jonesing like a motherfucker to get at 2e so I can start updating some Legacies. Sodality of Tor, Scions of God, a few player-created ones...

I'm desperate, man.

My player-created ones include:

-The Men in Black: One of my Obrimos players created this Mind-themed Legacy which centers on being able to blot out the perceptions of Sleepers so as to make them forget things or to keep them from seeing them to begin with.

Ironically, the Obrimos in question is a thearch who loathes the Guardians of the Veil. Tells you something about him, doesn't it?

-The Enlightened Brotherhood of Honoured Alchemists: A Moros Legacy made by a player of mine. Draws its inspirations from a medieval belief that alchemy was an internal discipline, all about shaping the self to shape the external world. Uses a kind of Kabbalistic meditation to generate proper resonances for undertaking Workings. Spirit-focused.

-The Tribe of the Mask: A Legacy I'm developing myself. Considering folding it into my Sodality rewrite. Themes all about becoming archetypes by donning masks, a la certain Native American tribal practices, though it's also a belief found in Egyptian and Greek religions as well.

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>>46827526
>how many were killed by Werewolves, or why they were

Are there other references?

>>46827397
That's what I said. ST is a railroader.

>>46826167
>essentially means they agree it was a bad idea.

no. Urfarah's death was a necessary thing. The Forsaken don't believe they made a mistake, they believe that they made the choice no one else was willing to make. The Pure say "wah wah you killed awoo papa that was bad"

>>46827691

Why are The Men In Black specifically an Obrimos legacy?

>>46827691
>The Tribe of the Mask: A Legacy I'm developing myself. Considering folding it into my Sodality rewrite. Themes all about becoming archetypes by donning masks, a la certain Native American tribal practices, though it's also a belief found in Egyptian and Greek religions as well.

The Scions of God are a canon Legacy that are already this to a T.

>>46827724
Get creative with what you have instead of bitching about not having more. Your one example and the GM's reason for not allowing it is in line with the system.

>>46827756
>The Forsaken don't believe they made a mistake, they believe that they made the choice no one else was willing to make.

Well, that's certainly one way to rationalize spiritual patricide.

>>46827669

Hey now, I actually like pretty much every single game that isn't Beast! My contributions to these generals started with me bitching about never getting to play Promethean, and the only chronicle I've ever played to completion was Changeling.

>>46827798
you gotta convince yourself causing a near-apocalyptic event was worth it

>>46827767

Because it was created by an Obrimos and reflects an idea of subtly ordering society towards a certain end.

>>46827785

They really aren't. The Scions of God are about creating an idealized self for your... Self, and then inhabiting it, but being fully you.

The Tribe of the Mask is about donning the mask to become Raven or Coyote or Anubis or what have you; becoming the archetype for a time.

The whole Legacy was heavily inspired by the Magical Traditions spell Calling the Orishas.

>>46827853

Some many Forsaken, and even more denial.

>>46827549
A Mekhet Bloodline with strong ties to the Invictus. They possess Dominate and a custom Blood Sorcery (Divination and Destruction) that they use to fix Masquerade violations. Dominate is used to erase memories while the magic is used to destroy evidence they can't physically reach.

Lodge of Pazuzu: A Lodge whose Totem is a powerful demon that wants to bring the Maeljin down so he can fill the power vacuum.

Lodge of the Chimera: A Lodge focused on making deals with Magath. Obviously has some sort of Magath Totem.

A Mastigos Legacy that gains Prime and is based around projecting parts of their Oneiros onto their surroundings.

>>46827885

It might be fun to view your guys as a GotV splinter that focused specifically on Masques to the exclusion of their wider mythos and purpose.

But then again, I'm biased because they're my favorite Order and Masque is my favorite merit in the entire CofD.

>>46827812

Are you breathlessly counting the days until the Dark Eras Companion with both Cleopatra Era Mummy including Sekhem sorcery rules AND Mutapa Era Mummy / Mage crossover with Mummy 2e conversion rules?

It's in editing and art direction, so close, yet so very far away.

>>46827756
Some of them also think that even if it was wrong there isn't anything that can be done about it. Whether or not Father Wolf should have been killed, he still was and his job still needs to be done. No use crying about spilled milk.

>>46828020

I mean, I also want that book because I think the Black Death setting is gonna give us rules for the Morbus bloodline in 2e and show whatever the Fire Lineage was before the Frankensteins existed. People can like more than one thing, despite what the memes tell you.

...but yes holy shit I need the Cleopatran setting for 99 reasons and I hope we get a crossover-focused Legacy.

>>46828020
Mage was in editing and art direction in August.

We're at least 8 months out, based on that.

I'm getting antsy waiting for Mage 2e and my Victorian Era game I've been planning for half a year now.

My favourite character?
Ringmaster Mastigos.

>>46828230

The editing is only for one recent add-on section of Cleopatra Mummy and the rest of the book has been in art direction limbo for weeks if not months.

It's also not a major corebook, and should proceed faster than Mage, which was aelayed by the Paradox purchase of the WW IP.

Although the Dark Eras Companion is still probably a couple of months away, we might be very pleasantly surprised.

>>46821389
ok so I am out of the loop whats Chronicles of Darkness. Is that the old system?

>>46828184

Have the rules for Vampire bloodlines been released for 2e?

>>46828392
New name for nWoD to differentiate it from oWoD which the new owners want to spruke.

>>46828264

If you want some A+ Victorian inspiration, try Ripper Street; I've on,y seen the furst season, but that was all fantastic Victorian police procedural. Great stuff.

>>46828264

Let me guess, the woman on the trapeze is an Obrimos, and the guy with the lions, tigers and bears is a Thyrsus.

>>46828392

CofD is the new name for nWoD, specifically the new second edition we're slowly moving to.

>>46828399
theonyxpath.com/the-shadow-and-the-asp/

>>46828407
>>46828431
Right ok. Seems like an odd change.

>>46828440

Corporate buyout; the rights went from CCP to Paradox, who apparently wanted to avoid confusion caused by having two Worlds of Darkness.

>>46828440
It was mandated by the higher ups.

Remember how White Wolf was bought out by CCP (EVE Online's developers)? Well, it was rebought by Paradox (who make Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, or both) who want to bring back the original World of Darkness setting, with Masquerade, Apocalypse, etcetera.

The "new" World of Darkness was previously officially called "World of Darkness", with the old stuff being called "Classic World of Darkness". Well, that sort of complicates things if you want to bring back that classic stuff and modernize it. So it was mandated that they change it. Honestly, it may be for the better in the long run, but man it fucking hurts consumer awareness when you dramatically change the name of the product.

Oh, but Onyx Path still gets to develop and publish Chronicles of Darkness, Exalted, and the 20th Anniversary Editions. They just go through White Wolf first.

>>46828465
>>46828511
well I guess. thanks for the heads up then

>>46828431
>theonyxpath.com/the-shadow-and-the-asp/

Thanks, but I already knew about the sample bloodines.

I was curious if complete 2e rules for actually creating bloodlines were released.

>>46827501
The ones killed in the Border Marches naturally regenerate.

Stealing their heart-stones kills them permanently.

>>46828597

None that I'm aware of. I think the gist of it is "unique Disciplines are now represented with Devotions."

>>46828658

There's no evidence that the one's killed by Father Wolf and crew regenerated, unless that's what you consider modern hosts, which seem more like tortured something-elses?

Also, if the few Pangaeans killed by the Wise have their hear stones reunited with their carcasses, they too will regenerate.

Someone could bring Fox and the others back from the death, although it's probably a very bad idea.

>>46828725

Maybe the creation rules will show up in Secrets of the Covenants or A Thousand Years of Night.

The outline of the latter looks excellent, and if it reaches its potential, *might* even be as good as Imperial Mysteries.

>>46828658
>>46828746

So, are we ever going to see Mountain hosts along with the rat and spider hosts in Werewolf 2e?

I hope Chris, Stew and Dave didn't include the juicy tidbit in Dark Eras, but now plan on leaving us hanging.

Is there a comprehensive list of both old and new wod? I want to cross reference that with the books I have so I can get the ones I dont have

>>46828925
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Game_Books

>>46828814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXe-5mUeLC8

I still wanna use the Lamprey hosts Chris gave us rules for a while back.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/419096-ukusgualu-the-lamprey-hosts

>>46828969
that seems incredible obvious in retrospect

>>46828985

Has Chris or someone on his behalf ever collected all his various and sundry CofD monstrosities and other extras that he's posted on the OP forums, rpg.net, here and elsewhere?

If so, does anyone have a link?

>For your reading pleasure: The Sekhmeti, a homebrew Bloodline

>The ancient Egyptians tell a story of the mythical past, where men conspired against the will of the gods; Ra, god of the sun, sent forth one of his Eyes in the shape of Sekhmet, a furious lioness, in order to slay the wicked. Yet Sekhmet's bloodlust was not sated by the slaughter of the men she had been sent to kill, and set about the murder of the entire human race. The only way to end her rampage was a trick by the gods in which Sekhmet was given copious amounts of alcohol (dyed red, so as to pass as blood) that eventually incapacitated her; drunk and calmed, she transformed into the domestic cat Bast, and was appeased by yearly rituals so that she might never again threaten to consume humanity.

>This story paints a far kinder picture of events than what truly transpired. Sekhmet did not peacefully fall, nor was she quickly tamed and forgiven; the gods lashed her with the fire of the sun and drove her into the unyielding desert, banishing the red-stained horror to suffer eternally in the lonesome night. Hiding beneath the sands during the day and sneaking forth under the stars to kill again, the lioness cultivated a brood of lesser servants to act as extensions of her will. As a fallen god, she imbued them with immense power; as a patron of warriors, she trained them in the ways of battle. Full after a grand slaughter that consumed an entire Egyptian city, Sekhmet retreated into the red lands of the desert and trusted her creations to handle themselves, never to be seen again.

>>46829536

>The Sekhmeti name themselves after their supposed patron goddess, but the long ages since Egypt's pagan heyday have diluted their identity to simply being Lions. They are few in number, and most are immeasurably ancient, dating back to well before the rise of monotheism; they rarely Embrace from the modern humans who have forgotten the true faith from so long ago. The Sekhmeti preach a creed with few tenets - love for their distant feline mother, utter hatred for the sun and the masculine god who condemned them, and disdain for civilization stemming from being cast out of it so long ago - and largely steer clear of wider vampire society.

>Some conspire to find and reawaken the fury of their lost progenitor, while others are content to merely survive the march of history and quietly plot the end of the sunlit world. A handful of the Sekhmeti rise to prominence in the Circle of the Crone, and others would likely enjoy the more revolutionary and anarchic factions of the Carthian Movement, but the vast majority of the bloodline are apolitical recluses.

Nickname: Lions

>Parent Clan: Gangrel

>Bloodline Disciplines: Animalism, Protean, Resilience, Vigor

>Bloodline Bane: The Sekhmeti count their Humanity as two lower than its actual rating for the sake of determining damage from sunlight. In addition, the eyes of the Sekhmeti flash like those of one possessed by the Strix, causing many in the wider Kindred community to scorn them.

>>46828424
No, he's the only Mage there.
London Consilium is very uppity.
He's considered a bit of an oddity.

>>46828408
Thanks, I'll certainly give it a look.

>>46829550
What happens if the vampire is Humanity 1 and walks into the sun?

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>>46829789

5 aggravated per whatever.

It's not gonna feel great, basically.

>>46829828
Woah, so newly sired vampires are basically Twilight vamps now?

>>46829865
Or vamps who torpor when they get too potent.

>>46829889
So the elder darkness that created vampires was nice enough to give them a beginner mode for when they're noobs or haven't played for a long time?

>>46829912

Yes, but it kills the living shit out of them if they aren't nice.

BP 1 at Humanity 1 would probably die within three turns of sunlight.

>>46829865
Okay, 1 lethal every ten minutes isn't a whole lot, given the whole vampire/sunlight thing, but still, it's hardly Twilight levels. It's basically the CofD equivalent of getting stabbed every ten minutes. It's unpleasant.

>>46829969
How quickly do Vamps heal lethal damage?

>>46829979
Reflexively, for 1 Vitae.

Otherwise never. No natural healing.

>>46829865
>>46829969
I actually like that vampires don't go up like flashpaper anymore. I've always thought that was dumb. Sunlight isn't a walk in the park, but it doesn't need to be like From Dusk Til Dawn, or John Carpenter's Vampires, where a little bit of sunlight turns them into explosives.

Discomfort is a fine enough drawback for me. Although I wish Mystery of the Ascendant let you actually deal with the sun's damage a lot sooner.

>>46830178
kind of reminds me of that scene in Blade where the vampire got past the sun by coating himself in Sunscreen and wearing Motorcycle leathers and a helmet.

>>46830276
Also the stereotypical goth girl who wears high collared Victorian dress, a veil, and carries a parasol.

"I can never see the sun!" is dramatic and all, but it's so silly the way that it's mutated through pop culture. I mean, Dracula could even walk in the sunlight. He was more like a 1e Darkling from Changeling than he was a VtR 1e Vampire.

>>46830355
Oh no I was agreeing with you that its interesting that vampires can move in the sunlight.

Do Mortals ever end up as Angels and thus , demons? Like, either through massive stigmata, or one getting up to such absolute bullshit the machine goes 'fuck it, I'll yank out the good parts'?

>>46830464
I was going to say "not generally", but hell, it's possible. But they wouldn't really be the same person, just that person used for parts. Would be neat to stumble across some Infrastructure that was turning people into Angels. Coming across these still living people half merged with ephemera and space age plastics and wiring.

>>46830464
No. Angels and Demons are god machine created things only.

Is beast as bad as it seems? The concept sounds interesting but I hear nothing but how bad it is

>>46830525
It's not as bad as people make it out to be, certainly it's not Tumblr: the Triggering

But it's aimless, it's designed to be generic so you can play any sort of monster and crosover, so it has no driving focus. If your players aren't into it they'll probably find it boring. Which is a shame, because I like Astral Monster Fuckery, but will likely never convince an IRL group to play it

>>46830536
it also feels like as a GM if theres fluff you dont like you could just straight up ignore it.

Is Chronciles Of Darkness books all compatible with nWoD? Its just a branding change right? they are not separate things? Cause it looked like they changed the morality system or something?

>>46830464

Angels are built from scratch. The closest you might get is a mortal being hollowed out to be turned into a Cover somehow.

>>46830525

Speaking as Tumblr incarnate, I can tell you that the original draft of Beast was every bad SJW stereotype at once; Heroes were evil because they were largely cis heteronormative men, and Beasts were the awesome badasses who... tortured and abused the living shit out of normal people? Once all this was pointed out, a shoddy "they use fear to teach lessons!" theme was crammed in at the last second but doesn't really fit, leaving you with a game about vague non-physical monsters who are friends with all the other monsters except for Demons for some reason.

It's not FATAL by any means, just dull and aimless.

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Been playing Bioshock Infinite again lately. The game has it's problems, and I could talk someone's ear off about the things I loved about the game and the way those ideas never fully manifested, but those complaints aside, Columbia is a beautiful city, and the concept is really interesting. Rapture, too, is amazing, and an interesting setting.

How would you do a Bioshock style game in Chronicles of Darkness?

Hard mode: A Mortals game only. Sure, the city might be selling supernatural power out of vending machines, but we're not talking about a secret underground Mysterium city that you can only get to by teleporting. Hunter level stuff.

>>46830591

Take the "build a perfect floating city out of stolen God-Machine parts" that Utopia Now is working on in Hunter and the "meticulous Infrastructure city hiding in a planar pocket" from the Demon Storyteller's Guide and smash them together.

>>46830586
Can you give the link to the draft? I want to read it now out of interest.

>>46830586
Did it get better in other editions?

>>46830586
Angels are made from existing materials. People could be those materials.

Also, aren't I more SJW than you? Beast wasn't even that bad during the first draft, most of it was blown out of proportion to paint Matt as if he was some kind of sociopath. Heroes were not evil because they were cisgender heteronormative straight men. They're the same kind of attitude as GamerGate, not "straight white guys are evil". Trump is a perfect example of a Hero. He wants attention and wants to make people afraid so they turn to him.

I'm like 90% sure that the writers were aware of the concept of "Hero Complex", which is where you do shit like start fires as a firefighter so you can put them out.
But now those are only the bad, broken Heroes. Good ones exist (they just aren't talked about). You can also heal Heroes. Honestly, I have no problem with them saying "GamerGators are villains", but I actually like what they've done with Heroes, and think that an STG will make the game more interesting.

>>46830536
"As bad"? No. That would be incredibly difficult, first off.
But if you're a fan of "try before you buy", I'm pretty sure there's a link up in the pastebin.

>>46830577
Sort of. Chronicles of Darkness is a rebranding, and I think technically all the 1e books count, but they've been going through with creating a second edition, and the rules have been tweaked and revamped. So a lot of the old stuff will require a bit of jury rigging to make it work.

>>46830658
>So a lot of the old stuff will require a bit of jury rigging to make it work.
uuuuuugggghhh
Time to sort my books out and label them clearly what edition they are.

>>46830658
>"GamerGators are villains"
The pushing of a political agenda in a game book which should just concern itself with world building and rules frustrates the hell out of me.

>>46830686
>The pushing of a political agenda in a game book which should just concern itself with world building and rules frustrates the hell out of me.

This. A better example would have been modern neo-nazi movements.

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>>46830620
>Beast Leak Draft

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>>46830715
Thanks.

>>46830612
Oh shit, how could I forget that Bioshock literally already exists in Hunter.

I had been thinking something to do with The Shadow.

>>46830621
It's better, but it has the Geist problem. No matter how you slice it, the game is ultimately about staying fed and bugging other spooky shit. That's not really much to hang a chronicle on, and there's no secret societies or warring factions for you to get inspired by. The city examples in the books are all just filled with mysteries that the players can look into, and allies/enemies they can get, but other than the one where magical shit acts differently, there's not much to do. It doesn't help that Beasts have no incentive to actually explore.

Other supers have carrots like Vitriol and Arcane XP and magical McGuffins like Tokens and Fetishes, and social groups like Orders and Covenants, OR, sticks like Disquiet and The Hunt and social groups like Covenants or Courts to give them things to do beyond using their powers and laying about or fucking off to do whatever they want

Beasts at best have Family Dinner, which is a) tied to how they get Satiety back, which means more shit revolving around just balancing your MP meter, and b) is just watching other supers regain their MP meters.
That's not very exciting. It's not a super compelling reason to go poke your nose into shit.

>>46830686
The editions are pretty clear. Chances are you don't even have any 2e books (which are: VtR 2e, WtF 2e, Mortal Remains, Demon: The Descent and it's books, and Beast. Oh, and Dark Eras).

Also, that is worldbuilding. People complaining about political agendas only do so when the agenda doesn't line up with their own.

>>46830703
Not really. I mean, maybe, sure, but most people don't know a Neo-Nazi. Pretty much everyone at least had the vaguest idea of what GG was doing and why they where doing it. It wasn't even a new thing, just giving that thing a name.

Would going Catiff for the access to Temporis be worth it as a thin-blooded 14th gen? I'm trying to be as useful as possible.

(oWoD vamp)

>>46830703
A better example would be to equate the heroes to captain Ahab, a man consumed with hate and fury, whose self-destructive obsession drives him to hunt an animal across the seas to revenge himself upon it for an act it doesn't remember or even really understand as wrong, throwing away his life and the lives of his hapless men in the process.

There are so many appropriate examples for the thing they're trying to do that it boggles the mind that they found a bad one.

>>46830703

But nazis antagonists wouldn't provide the same level of otherkin revenge fantasy catharthis.

The original SJW revenge theme was so intensely over the top that it completely blew by parody and firmly, yet unintentionally, established beasts as minority and otherkin stand-ins that actually were unrepentant horrors that truly deserved to be killed.

Matt really didn't understand why people were so sympathetic to the Hero antagonists until many of the usual far left posters even started to say WTF was wrong the draft.

The whole Kickstarter major revision fiasco was quite astonishing to behold.

>>46830771
This. There are tons of great literary and historical characters to take inspiration from. Picking on internet trolls seems lazy and petty.

>>46830658

I'm pretty fucking lefty and tend to be at the heart of any pronoun fuckery discussion in these threads.

And when I shittalk the Kickstarter draft of Beast, I'm specifically laughing at the bit where it says Hercules was a bad guy because he fucked a lot of women. That's literally listed among his evil flaws.

>>46830773
Are there threads still around on the forums to read about this? It sounds fucking fun to read.

>>46830771
>Ahab
Holy fuck that's a perfect analogy for Heroes. I mean neither he or the Whale are the antagonist of Moby Dick, they're just there.

Friendly reminder that the few good ideas in Beast were in Leviathan ages before and that's a less shitty game.

Fuck playing as beasts, are there any rules for playing as Heroes that isn't just modified Hunter?

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Fleshing out the Bioshock idea, I might use Utopia Now as the base, but there's something more interesting about a bygone era and using that. I like the idea of 1910s new religion, or 1940s industrialism. Utopia Now is pretty Bioshock (though both are based on the idea that real life Libertarians have put forward of a floating city), but it's very 2010s. It's a slick modern tech savvy city.

I want something more old fashioned, and potentially out of time. And not from the internet age. Then again, maybe I could do it as a Dark Era? Set the game in the turn of the century. Or maybe have Utopia Now create their Eutopia city in the 80s. Oh God, early 90s cyberpunk meets Bioshock.

>>46830771
>>46830788
>>46830773
>>46830799
The example the book went with--and it's far from the only example--is a perfect example for what they were going for. I mean, that is literally the inspiration for them in the first place. That's what they wanted to do.

>>46830796
Bitch, I'm at the heart of pronoun fuckery. I'm even nonbinary!
Also, it doesn't say he was a bad guy for fucking a lot of women. It says
> The only thing about his life that rivals his kill count is the number of children sired from his heterosexual marriages and affairs
Which IS cringey. "The only thing about his life that rivals his kill count is the number of bastard children from his several marriages and affairs" would have been so much better. I should go look up what it is in the final draft. But I'm lazy and have more Bioshocking to do.

Also I just wanted to make a post so that I could post this image.

>>46830796
>tfw mostly lefty but SJWs ruin it for everyone.

>>46830799
Exactly. Beast could have been a great game about being the nature in man vs. nature. About hurting people more and more just by existing as this inhuman, primal urge consumes you and changes you from a person with hopes, dreams, and desires into a force of nature, hunted by the people you've hurt, whether you're aware of it or not. You may not want to kill them, and you might even be sorry that you hurt them, but all they have left is killing you.

>>46830832

You may have me beaten tonight but once I figure out my own identity then you'll all be sorry!

>>46830832
> The only thing about his life that rivals his kill count is the number of children sired from his heterosexual marriages and affairs
>Heterosexual marriages
>Implying you can sire a kid from a homosexual marriage or affair

The utter FUCK?

>>46830852
What if a gay man has sex with a woman who identifies as a man you sexist/homophobic shitlord

>>46830852
Some men turn into women, but keep their dicks.
So "she" could fuck another woman and have a kid.

Boom, Gaybe.

I just don't get how Beast wound up such a trainwreck when Promethean is basically a beautiful art game about (among other things) understanding your own identity and living as a queer person in the world today.

How do you make gold and utter shit.

>>46830849
Yeah. Now that's a game of Beast I would play. Congrats Timmy, you created your own monsters because you were one.

That should be Beast's thing. You are the monster that makes monsters. You make monster hunters by existing. You are the source of every little bit of suffering you receive.

And no matter how hard you try to JUSTIFY it, you're both wrong.

That last bit should have been stressed.

>>46830859
Then they can suck my white cis male cock (the chick can) while I laugh.

>>46830852
Hey, sometimes if you rub two sticks together you can start a fire. You don't know. Don't judge Kronar, son of man.

>>46830875
Because Promethean is about trying to escape their curse.
Beasts revel in it any try to find excuses for their dickery.

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>>46830888
TRIPS OF TRUTH DETECTED.

Beasts trying to *justify* their shit is what makes it worse. Vampires are vampires, we know that they make justifications because they're dead humans, werewolves are wolves and man in one, they hunt, mages fuck with reality because mages are dicks. They all admit they're fucked up. Beasts don't, and rage that the world doesn't understand them.

>>46830877
Beast would be the perfect game to spring on players who rolled up mortals.

"Hey guys, you're a tight-knit group of high school seniors in a small city. You come from normal backgrounds. Tell me your friends, rivals ,and crushes, and whoop you traumatized your highschool sweetheart so badly she's catatonic, and the captain of the football team just bought a boat and harpoon."

>>46830933
And then they play as the Hunters who kill both the Beast and the Hero for being fucked up Slashers.

>>46830954
No no, they all get to be beasts. And by that I mean, see the place they grew up in become a living nightmare, home only to people either too scared or too broken to leave, all at their unwitting hands, pursued by those they've wronged.

Then hunters kill them all. Because who needs happy endings.

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>>46831011
So... Serbia: the campaign?

>>46830799
>Are there threads still around on the forums to read about this

If you search on the Onyx Path forums or rpg.net, you'll likely find a few of the many threads. They were VERY long and epic, time-out and bans galore, and at times so horrible that you just couldn't look away.

There were couple of posters, mostly people who admittedly suffered from debilitating social or psychological conditions and/or would make the worst stereotypes of SJW's look downright cuddly, that never fully understood what the problems were with the leaked and Kickstarter drafts and lamented and whined constantly about all the changes, minor though they were. They desperately wanted the tween otherkin revenge power fantasy, and never understood that the original game actually justified violence against people like them. They just wanted to scare and kill the evil jocks, popular girls, gamergaters, MRA's, etc. It was very sad to hehold.

Matt was a veteran WW author and developer. Beast was intentionally experimental in some respects, but his fuck up was still inexplicable and inexcusable.

>>46826947
They went to speak to one of their Gods for add. Because the stones they already had came from two other Gods.

Fact of the matter is stronger the Pangaean more stones can be made.
They asked their Gods because they know that the Gods can part with pieces of their heart and be able to provide for several villages.

>>46827709
I like how its a handful of Pangaeans had their hearts stolen.

>>46827549
I intend to update the Keepers of the Covenant once 2E Mage comes out.

The legacy feels very Pangaean like to me already so I plan to have the legacy turn the mage more like Pangaean. As so pact they made with Pangaeans from the time before.

>>46828230
Mage had to deal with the arrival of Paradox. That ate up a couple of months on its own.

>>46828725
One of the examples get merits instead while the other get some other benefit that is neither merit or devotion.

>>46831161
I feel like Beast almost got it right, with the main problem being that Beasts created Heroes (also that it's an aimless, pointless game in which everything good is done better by Vampire, but whatever). If it hadn't been for that, most of the critics wouldn't have had much of a leg to stand on.

Insert here my plug for a different version of Beast in which Beasts are humans who somehow become magnets for society's fears, and are transformed into reflections thereof, with the quest for apotheosis being mostly about not being defined by one's enemies.

>>46830810
No they weren't, and no it isn't.
>>46830827
No, but it's not like you can't just give their powers an XP cost and be done with it.
>>46830852
That's not what it was implying. It wasn't even implying anything, other than that heterosexual marriages and affairs are so squaresville. I don't know why it needed to elaborate on what type of marriage produces progeny.

>>46830875
Promethean isn't an art game. Also, it's a mechanical and thematic trainwreck if you really take the time to look at it.

>>46830849
>>46830877
>>46830899
>>46830888
Beast IS about being the Nature in "Man vs Nature". You're not a person, you're a horrifying nightmare monster wearing a human skin. You're Claimed by an Astral entity of six million years or so of human fears.
Also, the original version did have you making your own monsters. Sort of. I mean, they played up "every Beast creates Heroes and must always be careful", but really it was basically impossible to create a Hero through your own action or inaction.

Also, both drafts DO stress that Beasts are monsters. Matt's whole thing was "this is a game about playing the monster, because I forgot that Masquerade did that twenty years ago".

>>46830933
>>46831465
But that's not actually how the Beast/Hero relationship works. I mean, it was supposed to be how it worked in 1e, but you had to get 0 Satiety AND have an Exceptional Success when your Horror started rampaging around the dreams of the people you know. That and this one power were the only way to get Heroes. And if I recall, starting Beasts had Satiety limits between 2 and 8 or something like that.

The only real problem Beast's first draft had is that it could be read as "Bullies must die".

Well... that and all the problems of aimlessness that it still has.

>>46831550
>But that's not actually how the Beast/Hero relationship works. I mean, it was supposed to be how it worked in 1e, but you had to get 0 Satiety AND have an Exceptional Success when your Horror started rampaging around the dreams of the people you know. That and this one power were the only way to get Heroes. And if I recall, starting Beasts had Satiety limits between 2 and 8 or something like that.
True, but it was a problem of perception, especially given the feeding habits that Beasts require.

Probably the game shouldn't have been made at all.

>Promethean isn't an art game. Also, it's a mechanical and thematic trainwreck if you really take the time to look at it.
How so?

So Strix are the canonical creators of the Vampires now? They turned up in Rome to get re-acquainted with their creations and were *pissed* when they violated the bargain?

>>46831646
They are the cannon creator of the jilli, but not the other clans.

>>46831664
Sorry julii

>>46831630
>Probably the game shouldn't have been made at all.
This is the kind of stupid comment I don't even want to acknowledge.
>How so?
A lot of the powers and mechanics aren't really thought out. I mean, Matt's even admitted that the Athanors were tacked on (I bet a substantial amount of players didn't know they existed). And of course there's a reason people call it "the best game you'll never play".

I mean, that reason is they're stupid. I have played it. But it actually does have a lot of small things that add up. Some of them, like the measure, are just hard for someone to wrap their head around, but there's also the way that Disquiet is *supposed* to work versus how it *actually* works (which is sort of like how Paradox works in 1e).

>>46831646
>Now
It's always been vague.
>>46831664
They're also the Owls of Dis that show up in one origin of the Daeva.

>>46831702
>This is the kind of stupid comment I don't even want to acknowledge.
What does it do that isn't already covered by Vampire?

>A lot of the powers and mechanics aren't really thought out. I mean, Matt's even admitted that the Athanors were tacked on (I bet a substantial amount of players didn't know they existed). And of course there's a reason people call it "the best game you'll never play".
Athanors are the only thing that make becoming human not a substantial step down.

>>46831714
Promethean shouldn't be about getting superpowers.

>>46831714
>Athanors are the only thing that make becoming human not a substantial step down.
Implying joining the Master Race is down grading.

>>46831465
>I feel like Beast almost got it right, with the main problem being that Beasts created Heroes
Pretty much this. Being a horrible monster that you cant help being is a fun setting for a horror game (and is a common theme throughout WoD) but the Heros are so badly handled that it cripples the whole experience. Especially since Heros could just be Hunters

>>46828814
>Mountain

Dunno! Depends on what books are coming for Forsaken, who is writing them, etc etc.

Any game lines that deal with memory? Not in the Mummy way, but the slow fracturing of forgetting everything around you because you've been away too long, or supernatural fuckery, or whatever. The Odyssey sense.

>>46821470
i was thinking a post apocalypse cyberpunk campaig, where the clan rule the megacities while outside the human fight for freedom in the wastland, whit everiting in between.
probably the main plot whil still follow the awekening of antideluvian, while thanks to cybenetic e genesplicing the human are naw a rel treat to vampires, werewolf and oter monsters alike, so a great war for ineritance of the solar system are coming

>Be arachnaphobic
>First enemy we encounter in my first ever WoD campaign is an Ananasi

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>>46832036
The azlu are tiny spiders that crawl into peoples ears and eat their way into the brain.

Once inside, they control you like a marionette while your body slowly dies.

If they want, they'll leave you (sometimes eating your eyeballs, because they're such delicacies) but other times they'll merge into you, and keep pretending to be you as they turn your body into a half-human half-spider monstrosity. You're driven to eat more spiders, and as you eat up other azlu that half-human part becomes smaller and smaller until you're a spider the size of a building.

>>46832195
I hardly get scared in WoD simply because its goofy in an Over The Top horror movie kind of way. But fuck Spider Monsters.

Does anyone kind of dig the goofier elements of Old World Of Darkness? Their version of Hunter I think is pretty fun.
It also helps that I used to play this game all the time.

>>46832385
forgot link hurr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvNGvXpf_88

>>46827578

Draugar are obviously Gangrels with Vigor.
Impossibly strong, almost indestructible, can walk through walls, can grow in size.

The walking through walls thing is obviously creative use on Unmarked Grave, and the grow in size part is an obvious Protean/Vigor devotion.

>>46831702
>They're also the Owls of Dis that show up in one origin of the Daeva.

And they maybe-kinda-sorta show up in the origin of the Mekhet, in that when they use a magical thingy to look backwards through their generations they just see primordial darkness with eyes.

>>46832505
So basically they are the ultimate progenitors, the Lancea are very wrong, blah blah blah. It's just the usual crap to avoid having to give a definite answer by the authors even if clearly intended to be definitive.

>>46832527
Yes. If you want them to be.
In the chronicle I run right now, it's all demons. (Of the infernal kind). Belial's Brood are the ones who are right, and stuff like that.

>>46832385
>>46832398
did they end up dropping the dumb attempts to link oWoD with their other properties, like hunters being solar exalted?

>>46832558
>like hunters being solar exalted?
I never knew about this and it sounds retarded

>>46832558
They just stopped mentioning them.

>>46832527
>So basically they are the ultimate progenitors, the Lancea are very wrong, blah blah blah. It's just the usual crap to avoid having to give a definite answer by the authors even if clearly intended to be definitive.
It's really not like that. Each of the writers has a different preference for their origins, there is no definitive one.

Strix keep popping up in origin myths, but so do gods and demons.

What are the down sides of being a mage again?

Sometimes your cosmically powerful spells work badly?

>>46832737
>Strix keep popping up in origin myths, but so do gods and demons.
This, some people just have a bug up their ass about the strix and can't see beyond that.

>>46832789
some things might try to kill you

so the same as everyone else in the setting

>>46832789
You know that you're stuck in the Matrix and everything you do is devoid of meaning. You've been to the real world once and there's no known way back.

>>46833899
The "real world" is a shithole. Did you even see the Matrix? It's tunnels and ruins and killer robots. And the Supernal would just destroy you.

Everything you do is meaningful.

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>>46833938
>Everything you do is meaningful.
The Exarchs got another one...