got a moralfag paladin in the party, how can I make him fall?
>>46811565
Are you the GM or the player?
>>46811565
Don't play and avoid ruining the game for both of you
>>46811565
>>46811578
Sounds like you need to fall down some stairs.
>>46811578
Kill yourself
>>46811583
Hey that's not fair! If a player tried to do what OP wants, they should die too.
>>46811565
>bait
You've already got the mindset of a shit GM. Just go with what feels right.
>>46811565
Considering you posted Kreia, you should be able to come up with some interesting ideas without us spoonfeeding you.
>>46811565
Did you try pushing him from a high place?
>>46811565
By killing yourself. Don't butcher someones character for shits and giggles faggot.
>>46811565
The one that needs to fall is you
Fall from your roof and die
>>46811565
>>46811578
So, when he does something, you say "your paladin falls".
If he asks why say "gods ways are mysterious".
Then keep laughing until all your players leave.
Would a paladin falling even be such a big issue if the paladin in question didn't lose his powers, and lost only the favor of his god(s)?
>GM: "Your paladin falls, your ex-god now can't influence you, but he hates you and will use divine intervention to make your life painful."
>P1: "It's okay, I'm converting to another god who likes betrayers."
>>46811627
OR, you you know, the DM is trying to find some conflict for his characters? Jesus Christmas, every time someone asks a question around here you get some fag from /b/ jumping down your through the like he's got balls to swing. How about answer his fucking questions, or shut the fuck up?
OP, can you tell us more about the paladin in question? Which faith does he follow? What sort of gods exist in this world?
>>46811673
>I was only pretending to be retarded
>>46811679
>didn't lose his powers
But that's exactly what happens when you fall, and partly why it's a big deal.
>>46811600
Yes, if a player tried to make a paladin fall they should kill themselves as well.
>>46811703
>OP describes paladin as "moralfag"
>"durr he's trying to find conflict fur de character"
>>46811733
>Would X be not such a big issue if Y happened instead?
>Anon, X happens, it's a big issue.
??????
>>46811613
Underrated post
Evil orc babies.
>>46811748
Falling out of favor with your god would be a massive blow to a Paladin. You spend your entire life working for the betterment of humanity under the guidance of this omnipotent immortal being, then one day, you slip, and your God abandons you. If you're willing to abandon everything you've done to worship a different God just for a chance at new shiny powers, you're not doing it right.
>>46811703
You should read his post matey. He's either baiting, retarded, or both. Don't force your characters into a situation that butchers it. Just kill them, it's more merciful.
>>46811565
Paladins do not fear falling. They live on the edge, awaiting the day when they will sacrifice the scruples that chain them to defeat a foe so vile.
>>46811789
That's implying gods aren't expendable.
Think Stone Soup and its opportunistic worship.
You get favor and powers from the god you worship by performing acts that he likes, making it more likely he will intervene on your behalf and granting you stronger powers.
But as soon as he becomes useless, you switch to another god who is more useful to you, incurring your ex-god wrath and making it more likely he will intervene to fuck you up.
Moreover, the more favor you had and powers you were granted before betraying your god, the more vicious his revenge is.
>>46811835
>this entire post
You're not a paladin in the first place, friend
>>46811725
still falling for it?
These threads always make me wonder, what kind of sociopathic asshole actually has a problem with people playing a true champion of goodness?
Anybody who deliberately tries to make such people fall has problems.
>>46811846
>paladin
Paladin, cleric, champion - what's the difference.
In the end, you are just a willing pawn in what amounts to a catfight between gods, where they flaunt their popularity ("Look how many worshippers I got, I'm totally better than you!", "Nuh-uh, I look at the rich and indulgent temples my cult built me, I'm better than you!") and piss all over each other.
>>46811789
You do not select a god by his pretty name and then mold yourself into it's puppet.
True paladin has IDEALS and follows a god that aligns with those ideals.
If the god suddenly turns from him while he is still following those ideals, the paladin will either:
>A: "Well fuck you too" and go along doing what he does
>B: "Wtf man, I should investigate what made Tyr act this way" and go on a quest
Each villain in the setting is a victim that the Palladin did not save.
>>46811851
>These threads always make me wonder, what kind of sociopathic asshole actually has a problem with people playing a true champion of goodness?
>Anybody who deliberately tries to make such people fall has problems.
>>46811565
>offer him unbelievable power
>show that his ways are bad and that helping weak people only make them even weaker so they can't defend themselves
>show him that his God is a scum that done something bad
Do anything that will make him doubt his ways. Please, just don't force him to change character.
>>46811565
Also try to be original and have a neutral deity try and tempt a LG paladin, it's easier to get a moralistic person to see that life is full of gray areas, rather than have someone who the paladin sees as his mortal enemy try and convince them to do evil.
>>46811565
Say "you fall", then repeatedly shout " RULE ZERO" over his legitimate complaints. Frantic waving of your arms optional.
>>46811565
>guaranteed replies
>>46811578
have him trip over a stick. Other than that, tempt him ONCE, but not permanently. It is the players choice and if sensible you should respect that.
>>46811869
Depends on the setting. In standard D&D Paladins don't have to follow a God.
>>46811578
take a long walk in a deep pond
Noble savage orcs that are revelead to be noble savage only after he has slaughtered tons of them. Cliched and stupid I know, but should work if your paladin is typical lawful stupid.
>>46811565
be a fagg- oh wait you're already going for it
>>46811565
Throw a banana peel under his feet when he isn't paying attention.
>>46811740
not seeing a problem here
Im lolling at all the moralfags here. On topic and the only correct answer is upon charachter death, put on sympathy for the devil, and have a sharply dressed man apear, explaing whathappened with compassion and reason, telling the pc this man radiates genuine sympathy for him, and that his god is not here right now. Let the kind stranger offer him a way out, if only he sign on the dotted line.. Upon which the contract bursts into flame, and the kind stranger hovers away, fading into the shadows with a knowing smirk on his lips.
Dead-a-din wakers up alive under a tree with a mark of an evil being on his wrist, slowly turn his powers necrotics or flame based, have him grow horna and become the devils paladin..
>>46811851
>what kind of sociopathic asshole actually has a problem with people playing a true champion of goodness?
anyone with a functional brain who has left kindergarten you little shit
what the fuck does "champion of goodness" even mean? dickless beta cuck who helps those who won't contribute?
>>46811673
>>46813343
Then what's the difference between, say, Paladin and Cavalier?
Both have idealistic moral codes they adhere to.
One has powers, and the other doesn't?
I mean, the whole class system in DnD is straight-up fucked, but the one of the problems with DnD is that a lot of the classes can be represented by entirely different classes, with only mechanical differences and zero impact on fluff.
>>46813548
got anything other than memes?
guess not, you slime can't actually justify your pathetic weakness with anything other than a collective delusion that helping the undeserving doesn't just drag society down
>>46813614
Why bother? You haven't made an argument. Meme to meme combat is fair game.
>>46811679
That's basically how paladins work in 5e.
>>46811565
Depends, do you want to give the paladin or the player PTSD?
>>46813610
>a lot of the classes can be represented by entirely different classes, with only mechanical differences and zero impact on fluff
That's a good thing. You pick the mechanics you want and fluff them to your liking.
>>46813999
>That's a good thing.
For a classless system, yes. Not for a classed one.
Classes are meant to represent archetypes.
What good a class is, if its archetype can be replicated by an entirely different class?
>>46814017
Archetypes are broad enough to accumulate multiple, even mutually exclusive, sets of mechanics. A classed system makes finding and using the mechanics you like much easier and facilitates chargen that doesn't take most of a day.
>>46814079
I disagree strongly.
The problem with a lot of bad classed systems is that the class comes first, the archetype comes second.
You don't delve into DnD with something like "I want to play a jaded guy who is sick of doing things, but still ultimately wants to do good", you say something like "I want to play a jaded Paladin", with the inherent implication that you are playing a Paladin class, as in, mechanically.
That said, there are some good class systems (e.g. Apocalypse World), where archetype comes first, while mechanics are secondary.
>>46814112
You can come with the notion of playing a jaded *knight* and have several mechanical options to choose from.
There are many approaches to take. Someone can just play a 'human fighter' and kill shit, figuring their character out as they go along. Someone else might come with a ready concept and look for mechanics to fit. Another player might have an idea to play a certain mechanical class and build their concept around it. None of those is wrong in any way.
Incidentally, I do agree that the way 3finder (as that is what a lot people take 'DnD' to mean) does it in possible the worst imaginable way, with a horrendously bloated roster of classes, PrCs, and advancement paths.
Take a look at Basic, or even ADnD 2, and you get a much more accessible and easier to bend array of options.
>>46814176
I'd rather have either no options (i.e. classless) or all of the options imaginable, with archetypes hard-wired into the classes, with each single class representing a single archetype.
Trying to shoehorn an archetype into a class, or a class into an archetype is just... Well, I don't find it optimal.
>/tg/ don't notice that OP stated the paladin is moralfag
Moralfags are the absolute worst. Come up with a sadistic way to make him fall OP. Even better, have a NPC taunt him about how useless morality is in a serious world.
>>46811565
If you're playing 5e, paladins don't fall anymore, they just become oathbreakers and gain wicked rad new powers and become total badasses.
Get him in a situation where the floor under him can't support his weight.
Done.
>>46811565
>got a moralfag paladin in the party, how can I make him fall?
Oh that's easy, repeatedly punch yourself in the head until the desire to be a jackass goes away.
>>46811565
>>46811565
> not letting your paladin bring you to higher moral standards
>>46814263
No moralfag is just an insult awful, awful people use to criticise anybody with an actual sense of right and wrong.
F A L L I N G
I S
A
W I L L I N G
C H O I C E
Y O U
F U C K I N G
S P E R G L O R D S
>>46814465
There exists actual moralfags (like those bitching about porn, gore or violent games) and that's what the term originally meant. Although these kind of guys are becoming rare these days and moralfag has become an insult used almost solely by edgelords.
>>46814469
It's not when the GM railroads it..
Which he will.
>>46814469
this
to fall to Oathbreaker status in 5E at least, the Paladin has to break their vows and then, when given a chance to repent, must consciously refuse
It's not up to the GM to make that decision in the end
>>46814528
>There exists actual moralfags (like those bitching about porn, gore or violent games) and that's what the term originally meant. Although these kind of guys are becoming rare these days
no, they are more powerful than ever
>>46814469
>make him fall
>>46814565
Haven't seen a satanic panic about D&D in a while.
>>46814565
I presume you mean SJW? They are different kind of beast, but share some similarities and their power is grossly overestimated.
>>46814660
>their power is grossly overestimated.
maybe it is le anti sjws who are the problem amirite
>>46814667
>immediately projecting this hard
Is your last name Lumiere?
>>46814667
Considering you're the one hijacking the thread? Yeah, you're the problem.
So instead of discussing how to 'make' a paladin fall...
Does /tg/ have any suggestions/ideas for roleplaying situations that are less 'you fucked up either way enjoy falling' and more 'this is a fun encounter that highlights the difficulty of following a strict moral code'?
>>46811565
Let him go all the way in his moralfag self righteous hypocritical paladin faggotry. Up to eleven.
That makes rather solid villain people would love to overcome after few thousands of thousands smites.
And you should story-time it after I want to hear /tg/ praising Noble Sir Paladin and hate his "edgy party".
>>46814788
In that case noble savage orcs that are revelead to be noble savage before paladin kills them. Of course their existence should still threatens humans and they aren't good, but humans are also to blame for their behavior.
>>46814788
Greater good/Lesser Evil vs Dogmatism/Empathic choices
>>46814788
I've found that the moral dilemmas are the most interesting when they're less about what evil you have to permit and more what good you can do. Justice vs mercy is a good example of this - when you cut out the standard unjust law and fake surrender bullshit, you have a very good question as to whether it's better to let the victims of an evil person have closure, or give someone who genuinely has seen the error of their ways a second chance.
>>46814788
A few months back, my group was playing 3.5 and one of us was playing a paladin.
We were on a ship with a slightly disagreeable merchant. Two of the players were familiar with the man and got to sleep on a proper suite on the upper deck, the paladin and the other fellow slept below, along with the slaves.Due to lenient homerules, paladins are able to stand the accompany of evil-alinged characters without the need to smite them or to leave the group entirely. The slaves weren't there to give our paladin a moral dilemma, though. Our GM likes Vinland Saga and loved the idea of freeing slaves after enough labour.
The merchant was smuggling an evil artifact somewhere in the ship, which the paladin was able to sense, but was unable to pinpoint its location or persuade the merchant to tell him where it was. Later in the session, the ship was attacked by pirates. We managed to kill the attackers, but we noticed their souls being sucked out of their bodies below the deck.
Soon we found out that the artifact had captured the souls, and was now thumming in a steady beat, growing faster every minute.
Apparently the artifact devours the souls of the dead nearby and later possesses one person, granting them the powers of the souls it has collected. The item was said to be used on ancient times during a massive siege.
First our group simply thought they should pick the thing up and throw it off the ship, but as one slave was ordered to move the artifact, he turned to dust when he got close enough.
After calming the angry paladin and doing alot of calculations, the merchant and the group thought that they had 'enough slaves' to reach land.
The plan was to sacrifice a slave for the artifact at specific intervals, when the artifact was beating alarmingly fast. However, the more souls it was fed, hungrier it got. The paladin didn't like the idea at all, but he felt like there was no other option.
cont.
>>46811578
bait
>>46811565
Paladins are shit, but you should've just said "no paladins" up front instead of letting a player take something that isn't a real option.
>>46815970
>Due to lenient homerules, paladins are able to stand the accompany of evil-alinged characters without the need to smite them or to leave the group entirely.
As well they should. The mere presence of a paladin limits the damage the Evil party members can do, and besides, the paladin might try and perform some kind of redemption on them, perhaps pushing them towards Good, or at least Neutral. One could argue that Evil characters need a paladin's company more than anyone else.
>>46815970
Our dm doesn't like the mechanic how alignments can instanly change with a single act against one's beliefs. Instead he uses 'corruption points' and vice versa to show how the characters are changing.
For example, if the paladin gained three corruption points, THEN he would fall.
Anyhow, back to the story.
The day wasn't even over when the plan was obviously not going to work. The Orb was getting hungrier faster every time it was fed, and the group had already tossed the amount of slaves which they thought was 'enugh to sate it for the day'.
At that point the paladin had enough of the crap and told everyone *his* plan.
The artifact was being kept inside a secret room below deck, but high enough to be above the waters. The paladin suggested that the group's sorcerer blew a hole in the wall behind the orb, which would open a way ouside. The group's cleric would put any defensive ward on the paladin that he could remember.
The paladin offered to charge with his warhorse at the orb, grab it and take it with him below the sea, hoping the wards were enough to keep him aive that long.
And so he did. The paladin was able to keep hold of the orb long enough to drag it off the ship, and fell in the deeps with it.
The group immediately started to go fishing for his corpse and soon found him.
The game ended with the ship reaching land, the paladin revived, albeit a little weaker than before, but far from corrupt.
>>46811565
You're an asshole DM who shouldn't be involved in the game. Falling is for players who don't roleplay their paladin and just use the class for the powers. It isn't something that DM's are supposed to "trick" paladin players into. DM's like you are the reason no one likes to play tg anymore. Fuck you.
>>46814379
So why can't you start the campaign as an Oathbreaker to begin with?
If you intentionally start the game as a Paladin, backstory included and shit, why would you ever want to Fall?
It seems like such a round about way of doing it.
>>46811565
Kill yourself slowly of course
>>46811565
>>46811578
I know it's bait, but the sad fact remains that someone, somewhere, will think this is acceptable behaviour.
>>46811565
>how can I make him fall?
By definition, you can't make a paladin fall. Only the paladin can do that.
Alternately
>>46811583
>Kill yourself
