How would you feel about having multiple currencies in a setting? Do you think it would be too tedious?
>>46804075
I fucking love economics in RPGs.
Gimme all the debased currencies you got, OP.
My setting's currency is convoluted and arbitrary enough as is. I don't think it'd be the wise to add another.
Each nation mints their own coins but they're all worth the same amount, because I would indeed find it tedious.
>>46804075
It depends.
I hate bean-counting as it is, let alone trying to work out how many shekels comes out to a dollar.
But if your game is ABOUT intercultural trading then it makes sense, and would probably seem odd with a universal currency.
>>46804075
It can be neat to have a small amount, and it's not a huge clusterfuck when people want to buy things. Simple conversion rates (or keep a calculator handy), some shopkeepers only accept certain currencies could be fun.
I loved the currencies in New Vegas, although they were really just treated as tokens for more caps and not as actual currencies
>>46804075
Unless your setting is 19th century equivalent or later, the value of money would be in the precious metal it contains.
You could literally just weigh unfamiliar foreign coins to get their value.
>>46804689
>tokens for more caps
Isn't that the entire basis for currency?
>>46804710
So "Gold" or "Coin" is somewhat abstracted, a unit being either a fraction of one large precious metal coin, a single coin, or a few smaller coins or coins of lesser precious metal?
>>46804710
That's actually not true, because the value of the metal itself fluctuated regionally.
For example Japan had a silver:gold ratio that allowed the dutch to make a killing, while the silver:gold ratio in Europe varied based on how much money was coming in and how much money they were pissing away on indian spices, silk and all that stuff. The worst ratio was at some point in the 15th century when it dropped to 4:1 because Mansa Musa crashed the value of gold.
Add to that a lot of emergency paper currencies and coinage systems with different divisions and you had a downright mess.
>>46804075
I've been noting down which mintings of which coins I have. God help me.
>>46804075
I adore them for everything from fleshing out the world to providing plot hooks and adventures and all kinds of good stuff.
>>46804075
Depends on the patience of the players. If they are anything below saints. then it will be boring and convoluted.
>>46804823
The two major factions had their own currencies which you could find, but all the traders used caps anyway.
There's logical reasons for it (they're on the front lines, most traders don't belong to strict factions, etc), but no traders deal exclusively with that currency.
It's more of a technical definition, and it's not really a huge sticking point for me, it just could have been handled a little better.
Tell me of your currencies, friends.
I'm working on a potentially long running game and I really don't want to do "100 copper=1 silver, 100 silver=1 gold lol"
>>46806417
>
For example Japan had a silver:gold ratio that allowed the dutch to make a killing, while the silver:gold ratio in Europe varied based on how much money was coming in and how much money they were pissing away on indian spices, silk and all that stuff.
i would love to know more about this. got any sauce for that? anything on the economies of past chinese dynasties?
>>46807094
There's the standard gold, silver, and bronze coins.
There's some antique coins from long forgotten or conquered kingdoms that nobles love to collect. Not really used as currency, but they work great as gifts.
Big bucks come from Amber/Obsidian Chits. Amber and Obsidian are the two most valuable materials, and they're fashioned into small, rectangular tokens (often with a gold or silver frame and back). Usually only used to show off wealth, because a lot of stores don't have enough stock to swap for one. Some nobles wear them as pendants.
>>46807094
IRL roman standard that held out in Europe for quite a while was "1 pound silver = 12 small silver = 240 bibity bobs" so it isn't that far off. Just add a ton of golds, silvers and coppers issued by different rulers at different times that had weird sizes and values, and occasionally debase everything horribly because you need more money in the market. It's not complicated, just stupid.
>>46807094
Replying to myself because I'm cool.
I'm looking at having standard copper, silver and gold with either brass or maybe steel coins to bridge the gap between high and low coinage a bit.
Generally tedious, but cool if you have two or three nations which are enemies - trying to use the wrong currency may totally piss people off. In myvaporwaresetting there are a few different currency systems though they're each fairly simplistic.
The largest nation has just settled on 100/10/1 for copper, silver, and gold, because they can enforce it fairly well. Not vikings use 12/8/1. The dwarves use pure ingots and precious gems. The elves, being immortal, use favors - though they use currency when travelling in human lands for convenience. One nation only uses silver and gold and calls them both by the same name.
Goblin and orcs are tribal and generally egalitarian, though orc chiefs have the power to compel(similar to the polynesians).
In the northern desert there are elven cities which use strange objects found in the sands whose function and origin are unknown(except to the oldest elves).
>>46807580
>12/8/1
Sorry, I'm retarded, that should be 96/8/1
No reason to, unless it directly affects story like the group has found themselves in a strange land after going through a portal or something.
>>46807544
What's that .gif?
>>46807544
>coins made of a useful metal
That aside, what would be the purpose of those coins? Gold coinage serves for practical handling of vast values. Silver is for merchants. Copper is for craftsmen and small everyday expenses like buying a pint and a roast chicken drum. Peasants mostly bartered for goods and poor laborers and apprentices were usually paid in food, housing and clothes directly. What intermediate economic strata there is that would need those coins?
>>46804547
Debasement isn't a disparity of currencies
>>46804547
How do you do economics well in RPG, anon?
>>46807069
I mostly just cashed those out for chips at casinos and turned half to caps, and half I pissed away for my own sick amusement at Blackjack
>>46807782
>coins made of a useful metal
I assume you mean steel, of which coins were made of in the past.
So were iron, bronze, brass, tin, aluminum, lead, cobalt, tin, pewter...clay...
>What intermediate economic strata there is that would need those coins?
Who says some guild, union, business establishment or governing body or a bank can't just make a coin or token or mark with a general worth?
Also because there are many different currencies made of a variety of materials and I want more than DnD money.
>>46804075
I think it's realistic so, yeah it would be super tedious. Can you imagine different civs have different currencies? What if one of them just used fucking leaves and you have to find an exchange rate between this and another that uses rocks. Can exchange rates even work? I don't even know.
>>46804075
Two members of my party are devils and one of them is a human playing Hell's politics so they're having to keep track of gold and souls. Another member is a vampire necromancer so every potential addition to her undead army is a soul that's being tied up. Half of my sessions are just the party trying to cut deals with one another to increase their power bases and they seem to be having fun with it, so I'd say it works even if it's not quite the same thing as multiple currencies.
>>46808448
So how much is a soul in comparison to gold in your game?
>>46804547
This might be more interesting if you have some grasp of Swedish but there are some nice coins here
>>46804075
There are multiple currencies in all the games that I ever played and nobody ever bothered to not convert their value to the common coin's value
>>46804075
Do you also roleplay your character shitting? Cause it's within the same realm of automatic action.
>>46810691
So the worth is measured somewhat corresponding to the metal content (at least for gold and silver, copper is more flexible).
1 pound gold is worth around 20 pound silver.
>>46804075
I did it once when the characters went to a different nation. Thr exchange rate was 2 to 1 but the party got tricked by the currency changer into believing the exchange rate was 2.5 to 1 so they ended up losing a lot of money.
After that the trick got stale so I didnt bother making new currencies anymore
>>46811292
Yes, and they simplified it so that all basic silver coins have the same weight. The number to the far right in the table is the value in basic silver coins.
>>46804075
Players refused to give a shit about it. "There's a money changer right? We're in a port, we go change currencies, I don't care that you're taking on 10% tax"
Surprisingly, they didn't notice the additional gaijin tax.
Somewhat related to the thread;
In a Bronze Age society how would the value of copper coinage change? I ask because, with bronze being the primary metal and requiring copper + tin to make, would that make copper much less used since it is now a useful, craft metal instead of a precious one?
I once scammed my players by pretending there was a different currency in another nation. A vendor on the road claimed that he wouldn't take the party's money if they didn't change it first and told them the kingdom they were going to didn't accept the other nation's coins and directed them to his accomplice who just took their coins and gave them fake paper currency. Then when they got to the other kingdom they found out they actually did use the other nation's coins and spent the next two sessions tracking down the two who hustled them.
>>46807094
Beads, rings, coins. These are the denominations.
Brass, silver, iron, gold. These are the metals.
One brass bead is considered the base for currency; put it where you will. Myself, I had it as the amount for a measure of grain, or enough for a man's daily bread (or one meal for a poor family, basically).
Ten beads are called a string, because they are carried on a string. One string is equal to a ring (more accurately a bracelet) of the same metal. Five rings are called a hand, because they are worn around the wrist and a hand has five fingers. A hand is also equal to a coin of the same metal.
Exchange rates for metals change depending on the relative value and scarcity of the metal in question. Generally speaking, however, single gold coin could feed a peasant family of four for a month. Take from that what you will.
>>46811595
That seems kinda shitty. Did someone with knowledge skills at least get a roll to call bullshit?
>>46810988
Currencies being within realm of automatic action? What kind of games do you play?
>>46811644
Yea of course, they rolled for insight and rolled badly. They also had hints that it may be a scam since the place they were going to is one of those stereotypical city of thieves thing so they shouldn't trust people on the road. They got their money back in the end anyway and then some.
>>46811553
Well, first things first, they're not going to be coins.
Those are an iron age invention.
More likely you'll find commodity money. Cereal Grains, axe or arrowheads, gold dust. Copper money is actually far more valuable when it's useful.
Many ancient coins derive their names from units of measurement. The Shekel, Obols and Drachma, Pounds and Lira (which came from the Latin Libra). So in short, your copper coin is more likely to be an axehead, or a <coin's name> of copper.
Interesting in theory, but in actual play it seems like it usually looks more like:
>y'know that horde of gold coins you stole?
>well you'll have to take it to the money changer to spend it
>his fee is 10%
A pointless bit of bookkeeping that doesn't add anything to the game.
It's dull and tedious on the same level as paying taxes or being audited on your gains from adventuring.
>>46804075
I have them all the time?
I mean unless the game is fully set within borders of single country with powerful economy, there is no fucking way you will have just single currency.
>>46807128
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_coinage#Demise
>>46814481
Generally yeah. No one cares about draconic specie drain, or that one kingdom collapsed over the debasement of its currency.
No one gives a toss over the hoards being a lost king's fortune.
It's like, for all people say they want magic items that have a long and fascinating history, what they actually want is a longsword +2.
A big problem is that GMs tend to use multiple currencies to punish the players. You need to have coin X otherwise shopkeepers will refuse you service or offer ruinous exchange rates at best.
If you are using strange coins then yes, people will be skeptical until the worth can be assayed. But if the purity and weight is known then all sorts of foreign coins will be accepted because both long distance trade and every petty ruler with a mind to it minting his own coins are facts of life.
The two economic powerhouses at each end of the Norse trade routes running through Russia were England and the Arabs. Huge amounts of Arab Dirhams have been found across the range of Scandinavian settlement. Meanwhile English pennies were used all over Europe and often were more trusted than the local currency as quality was strictly controlled.
Unless the coins are almost completely unknown,pretty much everybody who you want to pay in cash would either know the coins or be able to have assayed. The main reason your money would not be accepted is if they knew them to be debased. 11thC Byzantium was situated on the crossroads of Europe-Asia trade with a powerful economy but had real trouble with it's currency as the Emperors kept debasing the coinage to make a quick buck which resulted in having to wipe the slate clean and bring in an entirely new set of coins to restore confidence.
It would also be nice for there to be multiple denominations distinguished by purity and weight for each metal used rather than just one size fits all gold/silver bits but that is a seperate rant.
>>46814944
>It would also be nice for there to be multiple denominations distinguished by purity and weight for each metal used rather than just one size fits all gold/silver bits but that is a seperate rant.
The Witcher, the tabletop one, did that and did that quite decently. Sure, for simplification and rounding it was pretty straighforward, but hey, it still has:
- few different gold coins of different values from different nations
- four silver coins of different value and nationality, one of them being treated as "the standard one", since it was used my more than half of the kingdoms and duchies
- bunch of copper coins, some of them almost without value, some of them stronger than certain silver ones
For simplification, players can use the "standard" silver denari, which is part of the setting and really common coin...
... but the system is very clear, the adventures tend to take a LOOOONG time within single country and most of those coins are extremely easy to use, so it's pretty much "you need to be a real twat not to use the coins you know from the books already".
>>46814944
What about using Gonzo currencies? I mean things like trained spiders, paper dollars each worth one bag of rice, beads made of she'll like Wampum, ceremonial spear heads, Hell money/afterlife dollars being traded for real money, deeds for a foot of land in the garden of eden, etc?
I ask because my new setting is going gonzo as fuck, but a little realism and consistency go a long way.
>>46815300
Oh, and I would forgot. For bulk trade, there is also pound (not the imperial one, but as a given weight of pure silver) and Slavic grzywna, which is half of the pound.
And each of coin described comes with medieval halves, quarters and each "currency" has own division of smaller coins of worse metal.
What makes this system so special is how it's part of already established setting, so most of players are already familiar with how it works (original player base consisted almost solely from Witcher bookfags) and the description is very clear, so it's not hard to learn the whole thing within the span of reading the small table containing it all.
Could porcelain coins work? Especially if it's very expensive/hard to make I'm the setting and/or painted with rare paints?
>>46804075
In my pathfinder game, there are two main currencies currently. The first is the copper/silver/gold/platinum money, the second is a single coin/credit currency called the "arcanum" the first currency isn't worth much, because coin metals are easily created, the second is. Purely fiat currency used almost exclusively by the wizard city in the game. Coin metals can be traded for arcanum, but only in pound lots (50 coins to a pound), as any thing less then that isnt very valuable.
As an alternate currency, scrolls of teleportation are of high value in the wilds, where arcanum are less commonly found.
>>46815472
Yup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porcelain_money
Also, Dark Sun has Ceramic Pieces instead of gold.
>>46815434
>The Witcher
>grzywna
Different anon, but I still remember how I've once gave my players reward measured for simplicity in grzywnas and they've started complaining how they would prefer to get a set amound of money, asking for about third of what was offered to them, since nobody in the group read how much grzywna is actually worth.
Good times
>>46815301
I'd only do this in a game where the expansive variety of cultures was an ongoing theme, or where the added flavor contributed to the content of the game, as set dressing for a particularly diverse market.
It worked really well in Buck Godot, because the weird multitude of alien species was a running joke. The most badass alien on the ship might brag about that time he survived having his teeth flossed. Humans are known primarily as "that species that likes to suck on frozen liquids" because popsicles never really took off on any other worlds.
>>46804075
Fuck that right up it's goat ass.
In my group we don't even deal with that copper/silver/gold exchange crap. It's just assumed you can make change as needed.
>>46815301
I've once had a setting running on bottled souls (and sold quite cheaply) and coins put into the mouths of the deceased. But then again, it was a crazy-ass homebrew about the undead, so...
>>46815300
>>46815434
That sounds pretty darn perfect actually. I may have to inspect this more closely.
>>46815301
If nothing else merchants and traders would find a way. Even pre-coinage cultures engaged in long distance trade, one the leading theories behind the bronze age collapse and shift to iron tools was the decline in trade routes that supplied tin and copper to allow bronze making.
Hell, even in neolithic times you had the Baltic (Amber)- Afghan (Lapis Lazuli) route.
Whatever crazy currencies you have, someone will have thought of a way to make shifting goods thousands of miles less tedious. There will be atleast a few common mediums of exchange that hold value used to grease the wheels. That is pretty much how precious metal coinage got started, it is a lump of valuable shiny stuff with a fixed weight/purity and hence value.
>>46804075
Well, like in real life, you don't really use multiple currencies in one place. So while different regions can have different value currencies, unless you're hopping around from place to place, you shouldn't have any problems. Of course you can set up an exchange rate table and have the transaction eat a random die roll amount of money.
So if 1000 Qwerty bucks are worth 1200 royal Asdfs, throw in like 2D10 reduction to the money the party gets for what the place takes for the exchange. Less if it's a reliable place, more if it's a shady place.
>>46815877
Long range trade across the whole silk-amber roads tended to be reliant on letters of credit. Not quite cheques, but a primitive equivalent.
>>46815754
The most popular coin of the Continent is denari - we used it as point of reference when giving prices for goods and services. Of course in the world of Witcher there are numerous other currencies, among them:
Golden coins
Bizant (used mostly in the north of the Continent, in Poviss and Kovir) - worth about 12 denari
Ducat - worth about 10 denari
Floren (typical nilfgaardian coin) - worth about 12 denari
Krone (of the Novigrad, used mostly in Redania) worth about 5 denari
Nobel (used in rich cities, such as Gors Velen) - worth about 20 denari
Oren (used in Temeria) worth about 2 denari
Silver coins
Silver groschen - worth about 2 denari
Lintar - worth about 5 denari
Talar - worth about 10 denari
Copper coins
Copper groschen - usually worth 1/10 of denari, but in Gors Velen there are groschen worth even 2 denari
Kopper, haller - worth about 1/10 of denari
Coins often are divided into smaller parts - halves and quarters. POUND is worth 500 denari. GRZYWNA, known also as MARK, is 250 denari.
Attention: It should be remembered that certain parts of the Continent are using silver and golden coins called "marks" and worth as much as nobels.
I don't give a fuck how rought the translation is. Enjoy
Most nations have their own coinage, but they're all copper/silver/gold underneath anyway and most traders(at least the kind adventurers are likely to deal with) will accept coins from nearby realms anyway, so it doesn't really amount to much more than fluff.
