Does anyone on /tg/ play Epic?
It seems like a much better game than the current state of 40k, but I don't know where to find games if I do decide to jump headfirst into it.
Join the Facebook communites - they are far more active than tactical command, which hasnt accepted new members for over a year, and are starting to really slow down (presumable the mods or site owners are MIA)
>>46796471
>much better then the current state of 40k
Shut the Fuck up, I will never leave 28mm minis for those tiny little shits, how do you play jack shit with modles for ants?
>current state
the best it's been in a decade?
>>46796471
>Captains Log - entry 67: I've gained trust of the Thunderhawks, they still don't suspect I'm actually Battlecruiser
Played like two games, it was fun. It's more abstract and I feel like luck might be a big factor sometimes (failing order on 2+ can ruin your day).
>>46796725
How is abstract more fun?
>>46796595
>>46796612
salty riptidefaggots detected
Ded thred, ded game
>>46796750
Ever actually use your imagination while playing 40k?
>>46797466
No man, thats why I need RULES FOR EVERYTHING.
>those purity seals need rules,
>The slightly longer sword needs different rules to the other sword
>red marines are clearly different to blue marines, lets give them different rules, and be sure not to mix up with blue marines
>did somebody say Wolf?
>>46797522
Don't get me wrong I like it when rules reflect the fluff or vise versa, but sometimes you need to pull back, let the details blurt and you can fill them in yourself
>>46796471
>It seems like a much better game than the current state of 40k
Tic Tac Toe is a much better game than 40k in it's current state.
I bought a bunch of minis ages ago, have a bunch of Space Marine and Tyranids, as well as an Imperator Titan. Never played the game, though.
>>46797662
Thats... thats pretty low, let's try to remember 40k might be in worse shape then it started but is still worth playing
>>46797466
I don't follow, what makes abstraction fun? It sounds like it's just harder to know what is happening
>>46797734
It's true though. Tactical thinking in 40k pretty much amounts to shoot melee stuff and melee shooty stuff.
The game is 90% decided in list building. Which would be fine if it weren't really fucking easy to abuse with several obvious broken options available to even the thickest skulled 14 year old.
>>46797868
Because playing mega huge apocalypse giant stompy robot scale battles with a skirmish rules set doesn't work very well.
>>46797868
Everything in Wargames is abstraction.
Bigger armies require more abstraction and less granularity.
More abstraction means bigger armies, means bigger engagements, means this game actually feels like motherfucking Warhammer 40.000
>>46797983
How do I know what's going on with abstraction?
>>46797983
What is granularity?
>>46797983
>actually wanting to spend 8 hours awkwardly shuffling around 28mm scale miniatures in a game that has bloated far beyond them
>>46796595
>>46798036
Having to worry about which individual dude is carrying the plasma gun. Fine if you're running a skirmish game with 20-30 guys but it's an obnoxious chore if there are 200 guys on the table
Individual sand grains versus the beach
>>46798078
He was arguing in favor of epic not against, read the post
>>46798171
Oh.... is it too much to want the best of both?
>>46798009
"I shoot with these guys at those guys" is pretty self-explanatory. It's not some obscure secret code, it's just simplified, because you don't roll each attack and each wound separately.
>>46797734
Its only worth playing if you aggressively ban everything that does not fit the scale and only play army sizes that actually work in 28mm.
>>46798219
Now I just feel stupid... I think I was over thinking the process
>>46798197
Then you basically 40k, which will always be a five-legged goat with a wheel attached.
It can be fun, sure. The 4th Edition variety was the best by far, IMO, a clear improvement of 3rd but before they started shuffling rules around just because.
But it will always be clunky and take way too fucking long to play a game.
>>46798239
Am I supposed to just tell the guy who spent good time and money on a beautifule imperial knight to fuck off? What about the guy who is hype about his Obelisk?
>>46798272
Yes, they hurt the game by encouraging and vindication GWs bad ideas, 28mm scale nights should never have been a thing, nor any of the other super heavies, those who think otherwise deserve to have their money end up wasted
>>46798258
>before they started shuffling rules around just because.
There's no just because. All these new rules are literally just to sell giant plastic kits that are a few dollars in material costs. It was a lot easier to be competitive without spending an arm and a leg before. You could even convert more powerful units from the basic troops choice models in your army if you were really short on cash. You can't do that in a game ruled by super heavy bullshit.
>>46798391
So the problem isn't strictly that super heavies exist, it's that the rules were made to favor them in a game that was ment to encourage infantry scale characters to matter
>>46798239
Zone mortalis/kill team/star grunt familama
>>46798391
Well, yeah, of course, but I recall some amount of changes happening in 5th that amounted to "well, it's a different book now, so go buy it!"
>>46798452
Superheavies are inherently problematic because they are fucking Superheavies. They have no place in 28mm. If a single tank takes up 5% of the battlefield and it's practically impossible to move because there's simply not enough space, then it shouldn't be there in the first place.
It's like actual fliers. Stuff like that should be represented by bombardments and supply drops and shit, not actual models. The planes would be way too high and quick to actually ever touch the table.
>>46798272
Well yes?
People who think paying lots of money for a model entitles them to contribute to the shitty state of the game are part of the problem.
Next best thing, only play Zone Mortalis, Kill Team or 3/4e scale games with like minded people.
>>46798452
>So the problem isn't strictly that super heavies exist, it's that the rules were made to favor them in a game that was ment to encourage infantry scale characters to matter
Basically. Superheavies have been a thing in 40k for a long time, anyone remember Armorcast? The problem is they were supposed to be rare unusual things you only brought out for a big battle, a special occasion. Now you see them everywhere. Why? Because they're a big money maker for GW if you can't compete without them.
>>46798526
>>46798540
But the modles look awesome, they are there and it would be a dick move to just fuck over the owners
>>46798197
It really doesn't work that way.
You basically need to choose if you want to take the role of a company commander where the equipment and status of individual guys matter but you 're only in charge of 30-50 guys or the role of a battalion or regimental commander who's commanding several hundred guys and doesn't care that Pvt Jones twisted his ankle, only that he still has 5 companies that are combat effective.
What you're asking is for the regimental commander to worry about the location of individual soldiers which is the squad/platoon/company commander's job.
Only way you ''might'' sort of make that work would be a multi player game where each player controls a few squads and reports to a more senior commander who tells them what to do with those squads. It would be slow as fuck and probably not very fun though.
"First and Second Companies, you need to take that hill while Third Company wheels around to the flank...I'll be back in an hour to give you new orders once you're done with that.
>>46798582
People who only play the game in a way they enjoy are not dicks. GW producing them and allowing them in standard 40k was a dick move.
>>46798582
>the models look awsome
>muh sunk cost
>>46798197
Yes
>>46798582
>and it would be a dick move to just fuck over the owners
you mean like WHF / Age of Sigmar?
>>46798582
That's what Apocalypse was for. A cordoned-off zone for whacky and zany shit where nobody expected balance and where it's okay to break the game into little pieces.
Crazy and fun addons are always nice, but stuff like that just shouldn't be in the main game.
>>46798582
>what's a display model?
Anyone play heresy Era? I've taken it up with friends and my solar auilia are a blast
>>46799745
>heresy Era
How does one play Epic horus heresy?
>>46799901
there's a few lists floating around, we've been using these ones http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Main_Page
There's a few issues but they have a forum where they update the lists
So uh, this being an Epic thread and all.
Any advice on Biel-tan NetEpic:Armageddon?
I'm currently painting them up for the championships in may.
All I know is that I want to bring my Phantom but people keep telling me it's shit.
>>46801021
god, fuck, my eyes!
>>46801125
yeah sorry about the 3D effect.
Have saome blur instead.
Epic makes so much sense. If you're putting 'miniature' titans the size of your torso on a table, maybe your scale is a bit messed up.
Are assault marines worthless? It seems like the jump pack adds little and they just aren't mobile enough to be effective.
>>46801667
Kinda.
The formation of only four hurts them. Bikes are better since the have the same speed and CC but better FF, can take an attack bike for BM placings and are five to a formation.
My opponents skip 'em both and use tacticals for assault duty.
How is the balance between factions in Epic? The biggest thing that drove me away from 40k was the rotating codices.
>>46797522
>red marines are different from blue marines are different from black marines are different from yellow marines are different from teal marines are different...
>so long as they're not chaos. All chaos marines are the same. All color of eldar are the same. All color of ork are same. All color of guardsmans are same. All color of tau are same...
40k in a nutshell.
Seriously though, 40k is a fucked rule system. It's worse than it was a decade ago, and the balance is attrocious... Unless all you do is play muhreens, necrons, or whatever the latest faction is. Good fucking luck to to you if you're a diehard fan of a particular faction who can expect a codex update once every three editions. And hopefully that one update won't SUCK BALLS!
>>46797734
>40k
>worth playing
Pick one, and only one.
Epic on the other hand is a solid system. Which is precisely why it's dead.
>>46802648
Pretty solid balance, near as I can tell. You won't hear a huge amount of x is OP bullshit
Oh, except one guy I know complains his orks never listen to a fucking thing he says but if he was expecting competency and consistency from orks then he's in the wrong faction
>>46802648
Better than 40k. Marines are still stupidly overhyped, but they pay tooth and nail for all that. Generally speaking, Epic's balance is pretty decent, and all factions that are playable are worth playing.
>>46803039
Orks work fine on the move-assault formation. Otherwise you just play reactionary if you need to triple-time them, or pull some other maneuver. Plus you get scads of shit in one formation. So while something like IG or marines can reliably move two units of 3 or 4 tanks around, one unit of Ork tanks is like 10 fucking gun-wagons.
And tell your friend to use Oddboyz, when and where applicable. They give your formations a lot of extra punch. Whether it be a Titan/killing mega weapon, or fuckhuge bombardments.
>>46796471
Epic.
What is it?
>>46802648
Pretty fucing ace.
Not surprising since the lists are constantly balanced by input and fan tribunals.
And marines play as they should for once.
>elite and few
>master lightning strike and maneuvre or die
>not easymode
>>46803157
Yeah, I realize he's being a huge bitch since he outnumbers me like, two or three to one but you always get that one guy right?
>>46803173
Remember a time, when 40k was about units around 10 dudes with one or two tanks and a commander? This was where all the knights, baneblades and other stuff used to live. It's a really tight ruleset, for REALLY big battles
You can also totally make a 40k army with a single formation
>>46803234
Yeah... It's probably because he's trying to retain the initiative while doing something other than move - assault, which is where Orks have issues. That and some of their stuff is brittle, like light vehicles. Otherwise their numbers are where they make up for it, and their big vehicles are fucking brutal! Gun Fortresses are mean, and they become even meaner when they've got Oddboyz in their midst making them into death-Zzap carriers. Seriously, he should be looking into Oddboyz. They are arguably one of the best things Orks have going for them. Their boy units are good, because you throw hits on grots first and they don't count for casualties or blast markers. Nobs and Meganobs are your power-assaulters. Buggies/Traks look cute, but they just die and are only worth it for Oddboyz. Gun batteries you take for oddboyz. Gunwagons are solid, take Oddboyz. Battlefortresses for transporting, Gun fortresses for death, both should load up on Oddboyz. When in doubt, take more oddboyz... wherecer you can.
Oh, and Ork spaceships suck balls. Don't bother with them for bombardment. Take actual guns for that. Their fightabommas are increadible however, thanks to being both interceptors and bombers, and being super-motivated to do their job.
>>46803571
Well thanks, I'll feedback that to the aspiring warboss
What do people usually do for models now that the game has no official support?
>>46803963
http://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/
there are others but I don't know 'em
Otherwise, you'll have to find yourself a recaster through the usual way
>>46803963
>second hand market
>recasters
>forumware
>counts-asstill having your old stuff
>>46801667
Chuck 'em in a Thunderhawk and drop them on objectives late in the game. I think they're the cheapest unit that can ride a T-hawk, from memory.
>>46796471
If those are yours, OP, where the fuck did you get Epic-scale models for things like Contemptors and Spartans?
Can Warmaster hang out too?
10mm is close to 6mm...
>>46804088
I am curious about this also.
Those Fire Raptors look great.
>>46804069
I see. My buddy usually uses them and it is like they never accomplish anything. The thunderhawk does seem like a decent option.
I am working on a sisters army and I was wondering what to do specifically with Seraphim, which fall in the same category. Repentia seem like the better option to cram into a transport. Still rule of cool means I will probably buy some.
>>46804525
That looks amazing.
>>46804766
Warmaster minis were amazing for how old they are and the scale.
>>46801667
Assault marines are awesome when used correctly.
For example as the spearhead of an assault with proper devastators in support.
You can pack a thunderhawk with a squad of assault and a squad of devastators.
>>46804581
They're around.
Have a epic forgeworld reaver head.
>>46804801
Indeed. The game had promise. It's just a shame ot drastically favored high-leadership armies to the point where it wasn't even worth playing anything other than elves or dwarves.
>>46805255
I wish I hadn't got rid of my Warmaster Empire troops years ago (though that picture isn't mine). I'd playKings of Warwith them these days.
When Microworld finally puts out the 6mm "Fantasy Renaissance" minis they're making, I might have to drop some cash. I mean look at these guys, they're Epic scale and they look awesome.
>>46798859
>"First and Second Companies, you need to take that hill while Third Company wheels around to the flank...I'll be back in an hour to give you new orders once you're done with that.
>BC goes off to have a few cocktails at the O-Club while the company commanders do all the work
Sounds fun as fuck. Where do I sign?
How hard would it be to proxy in normal 40k models as epic ones? i.e. wraithlords for wraithknights, terminators for knights, etc
>>46806404
The hard part is template sizes and range. But honestly removing five guys at a time or using dice to show remaining numbers works pretty fine.
Takes ages though.
>>46806467
>takes ages though
What do you mean? Couldn't you just say "this wraithlord model is a wraithknight" and be done with it?
>>46802898
>necrons
Bitch they lose to daemons, tau, marines, admech, and eldar, and are only marginally good against any other competitive list. If you play them casually they're strong but not op at best.
>>46806574
>Bitch they lose to daemons, tau, marines, admech, and eldar, and are only marginally good against any other competitive list. If you play them casually they're strong but not op at best.
maybe you just suck at playing necrons
>>46804088
>>46804581
If you post your email in epic threads, secret recaster santa sends you a catalogue.
I'm not even kidding, that's how it works.
Quality is really good, a superheavy tank like a fellblade costs 8 or so bucks, a reaver titan 30+, 100 mixed space marines cost about 20-25.
>>46809743
>secret recaster santa sends you a catalogue.
are they even recasters at this point? GW legitimately never made any models for most of this stuff
>>46798859
IT says here that T34/85 could smash a Panther with its new gun while staying outside of its effective range. Is this true?
>>46796612
if by "best" you mean "height of polarizing power creep" or "I play Eldar (and I claim to have played it since 2e)" then yes. This is the "best" 40k has ever been.
>>46809454
he's only half wrong. Crons DO lose to eldar and daemons, but they will beat marines and tau handily. Luckily nobody in my area plays admech, so I cant answer for that claim.
>>46796471
Epic was fantastic fun. Is there any way to play it online now? I remember Vassal, but at this rate I think just drawing boxes on rolld20 and naming them units is the best I've got.
>>46809743
You mean like this:
[email protected]
Do I have to say annos name in the mirror 3 times?
>>46811213
Don't know, but I bet the guys at /hwg/ can tell you.
>>>>>46754421
What would you guys say is a good starting point size for Epic?
>>46812340
I would shoot for around 1500-2000 points. The game for us seems most comfortable at 3000, but if you have a few bit units like Warhounds or Baneblade Companies you points will get eaten up fast.
>>46811297
Whats funny is that the current 40k is like a mix between standard skirmish with Apocolypse. The rules system is buckling under the pressure of that combination. It is one of those, this is cool in theory, but the result is poor in execution. That their pay to win gimmick has destroy any attempt at balance what so ever.
Epic 40k is basically that already, but with far better rules for the integration of large point units and actual balance. Thank god for netepic, I am glad I got into this game.
>>46809454
Alpha striking skyjhammer marines can and will disrupt the necron gameplan. Tau may have been an exaggerated stretch, but I'm just using tournament results to make a point.
>>46811315
I play 'crons and Admech, and while I have fun lists for both I do have the competitive elements as well. They go toe to toe unless the admech player brings war convocation. Necrons and their resilience can't keep up with that level of destructive force.
>>46811213
Maybe, in side. But poor optics not allow to do that.Anyway, germans optics to the end have even worse.
>>46810900
this, they even hire sculpturs to make new models.
I'm guessing that Imperial Knights are still the worst thing since ebola. I've got a Necron army sitting in it's box over here, and I'm probably going to sell it if the game is just a shitfest now.
>>46812841
A single knight isn't that bad. Its the formations that are now the main problem. Now there is a huge broken turd on the already non-functional system.
The game was actually crawling towards balance for a while. Then they threw it out the window and released a bunch of OP as fuck codex books. The best is the new Eldar book which contained massive buffs to a lot of their units while not changing points costs. Worse still most of their shit stuff is still not worth it because the universal buffs still made them pointless. Its pretty bad 40k is basically a crap shoot now.
>>46813142
What exactly are formations? You get to ignore normal troops/hq requirements because it's a pack of titans or something like that?
>>46811297
I have played Eldar since 2nd edition but i still dislike the last couple of editions.
>>46813248
That + you get lots of bonuses (special rules, stat increases, etc).
They're designed to sell models in 2 ways.
1) Buying more of a big expensive unit than you'd normally be allowed to field
2) Forcing people to buy crummier units (often the formation forces you to take a minimum of X units)
>>46813248
you can take 5 imperial knights as a legal army.
>>46813359
Ugh. I could see something like that working as a one-off for fun game of Imperial Guard versus Mecha Godzilla kind of thing but not for routine play.
Back to Epic
Sisters List:
• Formations (2350pts)
o Adepta Sororitas Mission (735pts)
2x Dominions (75pts), 2x Sisters Repentia (75pts), Canoness (100pts), Hunter (50pts), 2x Immolator Justice Pattern (60pts), 5x Repressor (150pts), 8x Sisters of Battle
o Adepta Sororitas Mission (365pts)
Hunter (50pts), 2x Immolator Hellfire Pattern (60pts), 3x Rhino (30pts), 8x Sisters of Battle
o Conventus Seraphine, Seraphim Choir (225pts)
6x Seraphim
o Conventus Seraphine, Seraphim Choir (225pts)
6x Seraphim
o Exorcista Cohort, Exorcism Battalion (300pts)
5x Exorcist, Hunter (50pts)
o Repentia Confessional (250pts)
Repentia Mistress, 6x Sisters Repentia
o Repentia Confessional (250pts)
Repentia Mistress, 6x Sisters Repentia
• 1 per Formation (500pts)
o Reverent Fury (500pts)
Cathedral of Purification
2x Void Shields
• One Quarter - 25% (150pts)
o Lightning Squadron (150pts)
2x Lightning Strike Fighter
Thoughts?
i have a 40k eldar army, should i thus make an epic eldar army ?
>>46802648
>How is the balance between factions in Epic?
really depends who you ask and the meta, but overall it's ok.
Krieg list was very strong and has been calmed down a bit recently.
For some reason the Australians think space marines are under powered, but this isn't a problem in any other meta and might well be because they have an influx of new players defaulting to marines.
>>46809743
then email re-caster guy needs to watch out
a different epic re-caster was just told he was being reported to GW by one presumed customers.
>>46801021
i like those wirlwinds
and yeah, ditch the phantom, that's what I said last time and it still holds true, sorry anon
warlock is a beast.
I seem to remember when I tried to learn the rules that Nids had a stupid wave mechanic where their troops all sucked and they just recycled endless bases until the battle ended. Seemed dumb and killed my enthusiasm to get in.
Also my nid titan has two right legs. I apparently never called GW for a replacement....
>>46796527
>presumable the mods or site owners are MIA
we are not. Hi. But yeah, only the site owner can approve new members. Forum was getting a lot of spam advertising so now membership is manually approved. Also had a database problem recently that nuked some accounts.
>>46814658
Sort it out, I've been waiting for several weeks
Alright, you've inpsired me to paint some of my Epic minis.
Stupid question before I begin, though....how do you base them? Mine are on rectangle 4x1cm bases, which is what they came with when I ordered them. But I've seen pictures of minis on square bases.
>>46814656
try the UK nid list, no spawning mechanic
>>46814868
Square bases are what were used in older versions of the game. For EA your bases can be any shape as long as:
• A stand may be no more than 40mm and no less than 5mm across in any direction.
• A stand must be at least 20mm across in one direction (ie, a 5mm by 5mm stand is not allowed, but a 5mm by 20mm stand would be okay)
People base on rectangles, squares, circles, hexagons, assorted custom shapes etc …
>>46815015
Awesome, thanks. Gonna leave them as is and paint up some Dark Angels and Nids.
I honestly really like the 40,000 universe, its just that Warhams 40k is such a shit game.
I have a load of Epic minis I bought over a decade ago when you could still order from the GW store. I know very little about the game though. I'll check out the free rules. I know I'll have to find a way to buy more minis though, because I have no vehicles other than bikes and an Imperator Titan, which is probably un-fieldable.
>>46796471
I choose to believe in a future where 3d printers are capable of rendering the full range of epic minis. Why are GW such massive massive faggots? Why do my fav /tg/ games come from a company that set its sights on crashing into the sun?
Rogue Trader/Death Watch + BFG + Epic = The start, middle and end of the Siege of Macragge or Iyanden.
dropping this here:
[email protected]
looking for caster who can supply metal heresy infantry
>>46815289
and vehicles
>>46815057
>I have no vehicles other than bikes and an Imperator Titan, which is probably un-fieldable.
for marines you'll want to locate some rhinos, a couple of warhounds, and 1-2 thawks, maybe some thunderbolts. if you have lots of infantry already that would let you field an OK competitive force bare bones.
Razorbacks and land speeders are useful as well. And something to represent the AA hunter vehicle.
(Land raiders and wirlwind are ok but a lot of points, vindis arn't great. Predator annihilators are v nice, but don't need them if you have a pair of warhounds at 3000pt)
>>46815413
Not worried too much about "competitive" since I'm not likely to find any competition that isn't running my second army. But functional is definitely good, I'll look into buying some of those listed.
Are there any gaming mats in 6mm scale?
What are you painting this evening, epic-/tg/?
going to start adding details to my 2nd BT hunter
>>46813710
>Cathedral of Purification
I don't play epic, what is that ?
>>46816292
Leviathan I think
>>46816292
>>46816857
I believe it is like a Leviathan. Epic has a few models that don't actually exist or have little information on.
In this case, this is a Leviathan that has massive flamers and melta guns on it.
>>46814488
>a different epic re-caster was just told he was being reported to GW by one presumed customers.
Why the fuck would anyone do this?
>>46817860
Money
Also, I'm pretty sure gw drones are souless horrors in skinsuits anyways
>>46817860
Fanboyism. Lots of people think that these things are hurting the hobby.
Of course they neglect the fact that GW doesn't support the system or produce any models in 6mm scale anymore...
>>46817896
Money?
It is not like the narc is being paid by GW.
It is just petty shit, I really wish I understood the mindset in play.
Hopefully a single person reporting something will not amount to anything.
I don't like seeing people punished for trying to support the hobby.
>>46816150
just me then?
paint up, chaps
>>46818111
Wow you have really mastered the lens effect.
>>46818111
where'd you get the turrets from?
>>46818157
stock parts from the EA WW/hunter kit, see pic
>>46818266
those ones look totally different to yours, or is one of the photos mirrored?
Working on my Eldar objectives.
>>46818302
yeah, the red ones in picture are mirrored. If you look at the notch in the lower part of the front hull glacis you can see it swaps sides between the hunter and the WW.
no idea why they mirrored them, never noticed before
>>46818320
looking shiny anon
what craftworld?
>>46818505
Biel tan for rules.
Don't know shit about fluff but I'm aiming for a light grey and sky blue/biel tan green color scheme.
I'm also going to experiment with pic related to simulate hobofields.
>>46818649
The holofield simulator will very interesting to see in action.
>>46818649
>pic related to simulate hobofields
even more shiny
you have my attention
Getting started.
>>46810900
They're recasting the HH and fanmade 6mm versions of forgeworld stuff, so yes. The same person makes most of the actual models that get printed, then a bunch of people who hang out here have made molds of them.
>>46815289
Looking for general HH Marine stuff
[email protected]
>>46811213
Offtopic a bit, but no. The T-34-85s gun was "good enough", and a well place shot could knock out a Panther from the side/rear, hitting the turret shot-trap (earlier models), or the lower glacis. The 85mm gun did have a hefty concussive impact, but generally speaking it couldn't penetrate the front upper-glacis of the Panther.
The IS-2 however, could blow right through that upper glacis with it's massive 122mm shell. And it could out-range the Panther, namely due to it's thicker front armor. It had issues however against the Tiger 2 (which was an over-engineered "whunder-tank" full of it's own problems), and the gun's massive 122mm shells came in two parts. This resulted in a hefty reload time, putting it at around 1 to 2 rounds per minute with it's initial gun. The later IS-2m (obr 1944) had a better gun design that ejected the spent shell casing, but this only improved the gun to about 3 or so rounds per minute.
The SU-100 (a tank-killer based on the T-34-85) could also easily penetrate the Panther and Tiger from the front. It's 100mm D-10s was a high-velocity naval gun originally, and the only vehicle it had any issue with was the Tiger 2's front glacis. To make matters better, compared to the IS, the shell was 1-piece (and heavy, and a skilled crew could throw up to about 6 rounds per minute. For comparison, the T-34-85 had about 8 to 10 rounds per minute with it's 85mm.
>>46821155
>Tiger II
>122mm dual-piece ammo
The Tiger II had a lengthened 88mm gun (like the PaK43) and used single-piece ammo.
It was big and kinda difficult to maneuver (plus cost a ton of resources) but they were pretty effective in the hands of a crew who knew what they were doing.
The thing you're thinking of is the Jagdtiger, which takes the Tiger II chassis, discards the turret and puts an even bigger gun (with two-piece rounds) on there.
Aside from the gun being massive overkill and the assault gun design being impractical in many cases, it also suffered from design flaws like the vibration from driving without the gun travel lock attached causing the main gun's aiming alignment to be off pretty quickly.
Yes, that means you either need to drive around with your gun fixed directly forward (unless someone wants to crawl across the tank in combat to release it) and unable to make even slight aim correction or accept that your gun won't be pointing to the place your crosshairs are.
In addition to shit like that, most JTs were crewed by kids who didn't know how to tank and would try to flee from a Sherman's line of fire by turning the tank around 180 degrees instead of just backing up and things like that.
>>46821370
No, I was talking about the IS-2's gun. I am well aware that the King Tiger had a long(er) barelled 8.8cm with one-piece ammo. The IS-2 had a 122mm, with 2-part ammo.
I'm not minding this sudden wwII nerdism at all.
>>46821370
Also, It should be noted that only about 80 Jagdtigers were made, and none of them ended up on the Eastern Front.
Do you guys think the GW release will destroy the community? The fan rules are great and a new ruleset will probably suck and be typical pay to win GW BS.
GW might go as far as making the game 15mm just to fuck with us as well.
>>46823681
nah, fan rules and fan stuff are pretty strong, there might be a dip in activity but if the game ends up sub par the fan made community might even see an upsurge
>>46823681
God emperor I hope not.
Maybe the official release will bring in new players?
Ofc I'm assuming the new release will be shitty stand alone rules with great looking figs.
Accursed Ravenwing color scheme. It looks kind of indistinct at normal viewing distance, because I still can't paint black for shit.
I'm looking forward to getting to the terminators, though. Cool thing about Dark Angels is there will be some variety of colors.
>>46825003
For the 28mm stuff, I usually try to paint an off black. Mixing a color like the fang with the black and then shade it down so there is some contrast.
where can I as a necron player go to get in on this?
>>46826191
Download the netepic stuff.
The necron list for net epic is a little wonky. They are oldcrons. You don't use transports and instead rely on portals to bring guys in. If guys rout they can phase out, but then come back in through a portal.
As for minis, there are some recasters. Post your email up.
>>46826572
is the options tab still the email field?
>>46826572
[email protected]
wasn't sure which field so I just did both
>>46801021
Holy chromatic abberation batman
>>46818057
>I don't like seeing people punished for trying to support the hobby.
That's because you get people like >>46796595 who think that it's bad for "the hobby" if you can paint an entire army in two days rather than two weeks. People who believe that anything smaller than 28mm is undetailed and bland. They want huge models, but aren't willing to accept the fact that that makes the game unplayable.
>>46823681
I imagine it'll be a shitty one-off release with one, maybe two, expansions down the line if it sells well enough. The rules will be shit(this is modern GW we're talking about) and people will go back to things like NetEpic and just use the shiny new models.
I wouldn't mind a 15mm game, but that would limit the types of units one could take. It's mostly just because anything smaller than that I have a hard time painting to any degree of decent.
>>46827115
I've found 15mm to be kind of unsatisfactory. It takes a long(er) time to paint, yet you need a lot of them to prevent the units from looking very sparse.
Also, 15mm is closer to 18mm, roughly 3 times the size of Epic models. They tower over them.
>>46827261
Yeah, I get that. Stuff like Flames of War work well at 15mm, but I don't think huge atuff like Titans would play well at that scale.
I think if Epic took off around me I'd be willing to jump back in even at 6mm. I think 10mm would be a sweet in between, but again that's just me.
>>46827315
so how alive are squats around here, as far as I know they only really shined in epic
>>46825003
looks like a good start, ravenwing look fine in pic.
P3 coal black is great for doing black highlights, just of blue dark blue-green. I use is with a basic black spray and followed by some vallejo silver grey.
Only other suggestion would be to work on basing. that grey rock/sand looks a bit coarse for epic
>>46827261
15mm is an awkward scale that really serves little purpose. Too big for proper mass warfare, too small for proper conversion and painting for skirmish.
>>46827757
squats are popular at present. NetEA Squat list (and EUK tweaks of same) is now approved and have been at Australian and UK events.
some balance concerns have been raised about airships and mole mortars, otherwise looks good
>>46815289
it's not gonna happen, but let's try
[email protected]
>>46830298
You are right, basing isn't right. I will check my store for something finer. Any other recs for making my bases look better?
>>46833393
The problem is they look to uniform and the colors isn't all encompassing. You should paint them yourself. Put the gravel down and then spray paint it with the primer. Then hit with a base coat so everything is uniform.
Then dry brush to the base color and add in some green or white is small spots to represent moss or lichen. Add in the models and finish them off. Then hit it with flock.
>>46833393
>Any other recs for making my bases look better?
the finer grits of vallejo paste work really well for epic. part of the problem with that coarser grey stuff is you can see the black base underneath.
Okay, I'm interested. Where can I find the rules? For Epic and for Warmaster, I think it was called. The 10mm fantasy one.
>>46834831
>Where can I find the rules? For Epic
Rules for Epic Armageddon, the most recent version of epic, along with the updated community lists and FAQ rule clarifications can be found here:
http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/rules
>>46835247
Thanks!
>>46804948
The recasts of the original metal CAD designs are so-so. Some guy in Aus originally created the true-scale titans. They're cast in metal, anything else is an inferior recast.
>>46837506
>They're cast in metal, anything else is an inferior recast.
What if I told you the metal ones are recasts of resins, that have since been re-cast again in resin by others?
>>46837776
I'd say you were misinformed.
>>46837776
What kind of idiot would recast a resin model in metal and not just stick to resin?
>>46834831
If you're looking for Warmaster rules just go to Rick Priestley's Warmaster site, the PDFs are there. http://www.ricks-warmaster.com/
lookin for epic 40k or 30k miniatures, either works
email is [email protected]
>>46837919
says the person who thinks they originally came from Australia?
>>46837948
the resin was slow and not done professionally, so later it was moved to metal (might have been done from new print/bronze, not re-cast), then to different metal under new managment, then others have recast in resin again
>>46838345
If you're not ordering them from Australia you're ordering recasts. Simple.
>>46838417
sure, now i would be, a few years ago, I would not have been
>>46838464
Ok? Why would I care about a few years ago?
>>46838483
>Some guy in Aus originally created the true-scale titans
>>46838483
>Ok? Why would I care about a few years ago?
well, you wouldn't … except you said they were originally from Australia. Their availability pre-dated the Australian source.
What sort of money do a couple of Warhounds go for from the "fan made" sellers?
>>46838737
Not including shipping, $25 USD for one. Can't speak for how much a recasted version would go for though.
>>46797868
It lets movement and positioning matter much more than interactions between special rules from various units, which is what 40k largely runs on. I'm not saying that's necessarily better, but I enjoy it more.
>>46801021
The Phantom isn't actually bad, it's just that the Warlock or a pair of Revenants are even better. But feel free to take it, it's fine.
>>46811950
Our usual recaster has been on vacation for several weeks. Start a new thread every week, maybe. And hope he doesn't burn out.
The other way is to buy some used GW minis or 3rd party (Vanguard Minis, Onslaught Minis), joint TacComs* (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php), post painted stuff, and earn people's trust. Only then will they respond to PMs with contact info for illicit Epic sculptors, because GW has shut a couple of them down in the past. It used to be out in the open but that's no longer safe.
*The forum manager often fails to get activation requests. If you don't get a confirmation email, post your username in an Epic thread here or in a Facebook group and we'll let him know.
>>46812340
4th edition (Armageddon): 2,000. Best to start without war engines or aircraft. But 3,000 is the standard, 4,000 for Heresy lists, so plan on building up to that.
>>46813258
2nd edition has been maintained by fans and updated as "NetEPIC". Not to be confused with NetEA, which is a group that updates and writes army lists for 4th edition (not rules, just lists).
For anyone confused, I wrote a guide. It's mostly about 4th edition, but there are explanations and links for the other ones.
>>46825003
The paint's fine. I think your bases are too detailed, though, and don't contrast enough with the minis.
>>46839195
>I think your bases are too detailed
Is that you, L4?
>>46838483
I don't get why you care about now.
You hate recasts or something?
Do you not realize that most models are simply OOP?
>>46826191
>>46826572
>Download the netepic stuff.
Woah, netepic is 2nd ed. Most people play 4th.
Anyway, Trolls under the Bridge has Necron stuff on their eBay store.
>>46839312
Do you not realize we're talking about the newer forumware sculpts? Why don't you learn to read first before commenting.
>>46838345
The originals were from a guy in England who stopped shrinking 40k designs when GW started sending out cease-and-desist letters. He started designing not-quite-GW minis, but recently stopped after some financial losses.
I think some other minis come from Italy. I'm not sure which originated in Australia. But that's where the Heresy rules come from, and their Epic scene is surprisingly healthy.
>>46839367
Basically all the HH-style sculpts are from Australia.
>>46839367
>and their Epic scene is surprisingly healthy.
Probably because 3rd party Epic models cost a shit ton less money than GW products in Aus.
>>46839394
I wish they were 6mm and not 8mm. You can't really mix them with GW plastics, and I'm not even talking about the original (even smaller) beakies.
shit posting on 4chan is certainly the best way to keep forumware safe, gg
>>46839433
I don't have that problem as much as since I don't use any of the GW stuff. But i have noticed that the sizes between the HH space marines and mechanicum stuff is a little wonky. The space marines are the same size if not smaller than tech-thralls. It's unnoticeable on the tabletop but pretty obvious if you put them side by side.
>>46839522
when one recaster dies 10 more grow up from his remains
>>46839522
Oh fuck off, no one is giving out any contact info.
>>46798258
>4th Edition variety was the best
Static gunline edition? No.
Epic 40K (not armageddon), specifically the fog of war mission, was some of the most fun wargaming I've ever had (and it's just over 30 years of wargaming for me now).
>>46839340
Yes I know we are talking about new forumware sculpts you sack of shit.
In many cases those are OOP too.
What I don't get is why you are such a faggot obsessed with making sure everyone knows where recasts come from.
>>46839522
Apparently there are haters that want to see it end.
I have no idea why.
>>46839692
u mad?
>>46839692
>>46839692
>What I don't get is why you are such a faggot obsessed with making sure everyone knows where recasts come from.
I'm just shouting "Australia" in hopes that GW will perform Exterminatus there.
LOL people in this thread getting scared GW is going to put time and effort into finding and shutting down one guy out of 24mil because he's making Epic sculpts.
Anyone here ever play Aeronautica Imperialis? It's a shame it died off pretty quickly, but it looked pretty cool.
>>46839833
I have both books and two armies for that game but haven't gotten around to playing it yet.
At the risk of derailing arguments to post something relevant to epic, how's the epic painting going?
Just starting on my lander.
>>46839896
I have a FW Thunderhawk and a ton of epic30k stuff just sitting in baggies at home. Working on some Warmaster Ancients stuff first since my friend are all into that right now.
>>46839829
The point is if some assclown wanted to even begin trying to find the source for evil legal purposes they would have had zero idea where to even begin before.
Now it could be narrowed down.
I am sorry you are so immature and do not have enough intellectual curiosity to understand why it is a bad idea to offer even tiny bits of info.
But fuck it right?
"More grow up from the remains" or some stupid shit..
>>46839924
Narrowed down is pretty fucking relative buddy. But stay scared.
>>46839829
>getting scared GW is going to put time and effort into finding and shutting down one guy
They do. Epic sculptors have had C&D from GW.
>>46839797
It would make list development easier, but still, a bit harsh.... :D
>>46839924
Don't forget about the recasters in the US, Europe and China.
Oh shit, I just ratted them ALL out!
>>46839981
Yeah because they were operating on static channels such as websites. Recasters have gotten smarter since then.
>>46839920
nice, which legion?
>>46840032
Death Guard, Mechanicum, Knight Houses and Titan Legions.
Looking for any and all forumware
[email protected]
>>46839853
That's unfortunate. They're real nice looking models, too. I've heard GW plans to release it in the form of a limited board game, which is kinda sad. Also doubt it's gonna be as cheap and commonly found as X-Wing is too.
>>46839833
nope, got stacks of AI minis for my epic armies but never played it, know lots of others in a similar situation
would be interesting to try some time
My LGS has a ton of used and some still boxed Epic stuff. It's been sitting there for at least 12 years and I've been bugging them for seven months to just sell me the shit, but they just cannot be arsed to scrounge it up and sell me the shit. They won't even make an estimate and they refused my (pretty low) offer.
Fucking hell.
>>46840560
Sounds like they'll be out of business soon and you can snatch it up in the liquidation.
>>46840318
GW shill
>>46840645
>[email protected]
Erm why?
Also do you realise that there is no legal obstruction to producing original forumware you bellend? Gw would only ever be interested in recasts.
>>46840645
Would GW associate it self with this - heil hitler, heil breivik
>>46840560
Presumably they have access to the website called ebay.com and realise that it's a gold mine.
>>46840872
>Also do you realise that there is no legal obstruction to producing original forumware you bellend?
The forumware is based on copyright GW designs, bellend.
>>46840637
They've been out of business six or seven times, but somehow always bounce back thanks to some tax bullshit tricks.
>>46840923
If they were selling it there, I would be less offended. But no, it's just sitting there collecting dust. They cannot be assed to count the sprues or even carry up the boxes from the basement and count them.
I'm thinking about going there tomorrow now and just bullying the slavic salesclerk that knows fuck-all about traditional games into just selling me the shit already.
>>46840948
It isn't a GW design unless they sculpted it you complete knob, do you think theyre going to go to court and be able to explain to a judge, well your honour, you see there are this things called titans, we sculpted this two metre high one that doesnt look the same as this 10cm high model, but erm, its a sci-fi thing, that has a medieval aesthetic....so..
You know all those sculptors who are going to prison for selling resin busts of Boris Karloff as frankenstien? You know when people sell original "bio-mech" sculptures in the style of HR Giger, and they get sent to prison? Oh wait it completely legal you retard.
>>46841104
>It isn't a GW design unless they sculpted it you complete knob, do you think theyre going to go to court and be able to explain to a judge, well your honour, you see there are this things called titans, we sculpted this two metre high one that doesnt look the same as this 10cm high model, but erm, its a sci-fi thing, that has a medieval aesthetic....so..
Except that's literally what happened to Otterman. You complete knob.
>>46840872
You can't shrink 28mm designs to 6mm and sell them as your own. Otterman did and got a cease-and-desist letter for his troubles. The Chapterhouse ruling does allow original designs that merely have design cues from a copyrighted product line (see Onslaught Minis for a 6mm example) but that's as far as you can legally go without a license. One guy in the TacComs forum did actually try to buy a license from GW - I think he used to work for them - but GW won't license to mini makers, only companies that do other types of things (like roleplaying, board, or video games).
>>46803177
>drive me closer, I need to hit them with my turbolaser
>>46841104
ok shill give it a rest nobody is dropping their guard for you
>>46841121
Except that isn't what happened to him as you well know. He got hit with a cease and desist letter and decided it wasn't worth his while to carry on, if it had gone to court GW's claim wouldnt have stood up. Just because someone cant be arsed to carry on doesnt mean GW can shut down people making new sculpts. In fact they went to court to fight it and lost lol. So there you have categorical legal proof. You cant go to prison for ripping off the vagueries of someones style
>>46841280
You seriously think he would have won the case? Nah, I don't buy it. Everyone on /tg/ knows this shit is mad illegal.
>>46841280
No on resculpting Epic figures is going to bother fighting GW in court.
>>46841139
>You can't shrink 28mm designs to 6mm and sell them as your own
>see Onslaught Minis for a 6mm example
Go on the onslaught website and check out their range of 28mm dark eldar units shrunk down to 6mm and then wonder why you would ever pick them as an example, when they completely disprove what you are saying.
>>46841318
Yeah thats what I just said. Just because people cant be arsed to argue doesn't mean there is any legal basis for them to be shut down.
As above, check out onslaughts dark eldar, way closer 6mm copies than the forumware reaver or mars pattern warhound. But they dont get shut down. You know why? Because when the cease and desist comes they just ignore it. They will never appear in court because its just bully tactics with no legal basis.
>>46841412
Dude, calm down. You're going nuts over nothing.
The Chapterhouse ruling made it clear that minor differences from someone else's copyrighted designs are legally sufficient to avoid infringing IP. But "minor" isn't well-defined. Those not-Dark Eldar minis are closer than, say, the same company's not-Tau. But they're also low-volume sellers, and the guy behind them would probably be willing to pull the not-Dark Eldar line if GW came knocking.
On the other hand you've got Trolls Under the Bridge copying FW Imperial Guard tanks and shrinking them down to 6mm. GW must've complained because they pulled all their 6mm minis off their website... but they're still in their eBay store, and if you sign up for emails they'll let you know what's available. Presumably they have it easier because they're in the Czech Republic. I'm surprised they've lasted this long.
>>46841479
>super sketchy industry which involves posting emails on anonymous mongolian basket weaving forum hoping for Epic fairy to email you a catalogue
>"it's not illegal it's just nobody can be bothered to fight them in court!!!"
you are literally the stupidest person on /tg/
>>46841317
You must have missed the most high profile court case the industry has ever seen, where this exact issue came up and GW lost. It's legal. See the million companies that all make third party space marines, I guess you think thats illegal right?
>>46841479
Nah, the not-Dark Eldar are different enough by post-Chapterhouse standards. The forumware titans were pretty much exact copies of the FW 28mm titans, though, so those guys would not stand a chance in court. And they were pre-Chapterhouse, when even looking “inspired by” was likely to result in the court deciding against you.
>>46841667
>You must have missed the most high profile court case the industry has ever seen
You mean the one where Chapterhouse were forced to remove several items for violating GW copyright? Just because they won the rights to produce 3rd party accessories for GW products doesn't mean that you can just make anything you want based on their IP.
>>46841667
Otterman was openly getting 28mm models, measuring them panel by panel, inputting them into a CAD program, scaling down by a factor of ~5, 3D printing the result, and making a mold for metal casting. It was not the stuff that the Chapterhouse ruling allowed. (Also worth pointing out that the Chapterhouse decision happened after Otterman got C&Ded, iirc.)
Man, this thread sucks.
>>46841783
I agree
can we ignore the GW shill trying to convince us he isn't hunting recasters?
>>46841783
Then make it better, Anon.
>>46841602
It was literally declared legal in a court of law only a few years ago. Three companies have been cited already who were making new epic, and were told by GW to stop. They told them to fuck off and are still trading now. At salute last week you could buy and entire range of epic death korps of krieg a few stalls over from the official Games Workshop/Forgeworld stall, go to dark sphere and check out the racks and racks of 28mm space marines that are not made by GW. But yeah its a highly illegal super sketchy OMG so scary practice which happens in completely legal stores in london that deal with GW on a daily basis with no repercussions.
