>Previous Thread
>>46733026
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/NjH6gQqi
>20th anniversary editions
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lfa6qw2ocfd2y/Roleplaying#mt9aacn2r93i2
>Mage Sight Spoilers
http://theonyxpath.com/i-can-see-for-miles-and-miles-mage-the-awakening/
>Question
Do you have any favorite fan theory? Do you have any yourself?
chronicles of fagness
No Mage this week, but that's because Exalted 3e is coming out instead.
People who backed Beast on Kickstarter and chose Mage as their reward will receive a link to the PDF before it goes on sale.
This feels... Frustrating to me.
>>46763600
I know we had some Beastbackers in these threads before. Just gotta harass 'em.
>>46763600
Wait where is that confirmed?
>>46763588
>Sunlight/Silver/etc is the form paradox takes in vampires, werewolves and other shits
What does this even mean?
>>46763323
>>46763305
>Claims others are projecting
>Bitches and calls other people boring for poking holes in his idea when he can't come up with a good idea to save his life
>>46763686
>claims someone else is bitching
>continues bitching into other threads entirely off topic
it does sound like you were projecting
>>46763686
Christ, dude, would you two just cut it out already?
>>46763613
I don't want to harass people. I want to buy the book. It just grinds my gears that we're getting an even longer wait tacked on to what already feels interminable.
It's probably childish of me - this is an entertainment product - but I'd appreciate being able to throw my money at OPP instead of having to wait for the inevitable sharing. Sort of ruins the joy of it a little.
>>46763639
Comments on the Monday Meeting Notes, by Rich.
"I back the Beast kickstarter at the level to get the Mage 2nd edition pdf, will I get it when it goes on sale, before or after?"
"You’ll get a link before it goes on sale as an Advance PDF."
>>46763734
yesss slightly early mage
I feel like these threads have gotten pretty shitty outside of the few rare cases where the shit-posters are gone for a while and we actually manage to have meaningful discussions about under-loved gamelines like Mummy.
>>46763760
I'm kind of amazed that my request for ideas turned into what appears to be an hour-long argument over whether oxycontin is a small town drug or not. It was fascinating.
>>46763645
>What does this even mean?
You need to go back to basic reading comprehension classes?
The weaknesses of other supernaturals is how paradox manifests in them. Due to consensus reality, most of the world doesn't believe magic, vampires, werewolves and other monsters exist. When a mage casts a spell, they get "paradox," reality saying NO. When a vampire exists, paradox manifests by them burning in the sun, a werewolf becomes allergic to silver, etc
>>46763728
>Cofd General
>offtopic
>>46763760
Mate, I was away for work for three days and noone actually did anything. Shitposting drives these threads. Someone will post a genuine thing, half a dozen people will come out of the wood work to say that's stupid, you're stupid and never answer, or give deliberately disingenuous answers because the person asking the question has badwrongfun.
The only thing that causes them to auto-sage is the shitposting, or they'd fall off the board from disuse..
>>46763734
>I don't want to harass people.
Someone else will do it for you.
>>46763805
I am sure they will. Sometimes, I forget where I am.
>>46763802
>>Cofd General
>>offtopic
Yes. Until there's a Whiny: the Shitposter game.
>>46763819
No, no, you're thinking of the person who originally started bitching because his idea was boring and didn't like being called on it.
>>46763588
Trying this hard in a comfy /wodg/
>>46763827
Just whichever whiny shit decided their petty argument was so important it needed to span two threads because they have no life beyond being Anonymous on 4chan.
>>46763876
What makes the threads so precious to you that it matters about who argues in them, and about what? Are they all you've got, anon?
>>46763954
While I was joking about projecting upthread, Jesus Christ, you're clearly just trying to wrangle strangers into your arguments. Don't you have a friend to talk to?
>>46763995
Don't you? Look at what you've said and done, anon. Look at how you react to someone saying that what you've said is stupid and boring. How people who impinge on your safespace make you feel.
Honestly? You could stand to go outside. Get some sunshine. Play some soccer. Get some perspective.
>>46763792
>consensus reality,
My god, it's astonishing how much I do NOT miss Mage: the Ascension.
>>46764087
Whoop. Don't let DaveB hear you say that, or he'll slip something else from it into the new Mage to make you suffer for dissing his waifu.
>>46764040
>Honestly? You could stand to go outside. Get some sunshine.
It's night time tho. =,(
>>46764087
Awakening isn't that much different, the consensus has just changed to the Supernal instead of a bunch of nobodies.
>>46764087
Yeah, having fun sucked.
>>46764115
>>46764146
Consensual reality was an abomination that caused nothing but endless arguments and was a rules nightmare. Even Mage20's revisions and pages of explanations and options did little to nothing to fix the mess.
Dave was a fan of Ascension (as was I a long time ago). He also wisely recognized its deficiencies, including things like the covert/vulgar holdover in Mage 1e. That's precisely why it was completely excised in 2e.
Nigel and Eliza Thornberry, father and daughter Thyrsus team.
Good Mages or Best Mages?
>>46764359
And yet the ultimate theme of consensual reality, now restricted to an elite instead of everyone, remains.
What is WWP?
>>46764419
White Wolf Publishing
>>46764395
Sure, in the sense that all realities are "consensual," but not at all in the same fashion that oMage's reality is consensual.
If you killed every person in nMage, reality would continue on. If you killed every person in oMage, reality would end.
>>46764419
White Wolf Publishing, the subsidiary of Paradox that Dracula works at.
>>46763315
Hey y'all. I'm running a one shot and I want my players to be midteir werewolves in WtF 2ed. Where would I find information to make that happen? I remember at least in first ed there was a chart somewhere with ex totals.
>>46764436
Consensual reality now comes from one step up the chain, that's all. Kill everything there and everything ends. Everything has its own embodiment and symbols, and everything there can die.
>>46764359
>Consensual reality was an abomination that caused nothing but endless arguments and was a rules nightmare.
I think it's fuckin bonkers that you think this somehow makes it better than Mage the Awakening, which has paradoxically had MORE arguments and was even more of a rules nightmare.
>>46764436
>If you killed every person in nMage, reality would continue on. If you killed every person in oMage, reality would end.
That's not how oMage works.
>>46764445
There is none for 2Werewolf, give them a bunch of renown dots (each renown gives a free gift).
>>46764488
Those arguments are a result of shitty rules and players who can't read. Awakening's concepts are clear cut and easy to grasp once you can parse the shitty 1e core.
Consensual reality is fundamentally, conceptually broken and retarded.
Awakening had problems with presentation, Ascension has outdated, dumb ideas at its core.
>>46764524
Ok. Just needed to know that I didn't miss anything.
>>46764488
Consensual reality always worked in my group. The ST made it pretty clear what would and would not fly by.
>>46764532
>Consensual reality is fundamentally, conceptually broken and retarded.
It's the same thing as Supernal reality, Supernal entities are the consensus. If you kill them, everything disappears.
>>46763734
Huh, that means Promethean and Hunter probably get the same treatment, right?
I guess I should have backed Beast.
>>46764591
>If you kill them, everything disappears.
No, it doesn't. That is EXPLICITLY not the case. The supernal is a list of symbols. They give "meaning," but that meaning isn't the reality.
If you killed the supernal, there would still be fish, but those fish would be exactly that: fish. Fish with no symbolic or grander meaning. Just fish.
>>46764652
Oh, so now mages have no power because the supernal has no power to change the world. Got it.
Consensual reality was a practical and rules hell in Ascension, and the attempt to continue it in spirit in Mage 1e with convert vs. vulgar magic was terrible choice.
I cannot express my gratitude enough that Mage 2e has eliminated it all.
>>46764782
>>46764669
I can move a boulder with a lever; that doesn't mean the boulder will cease to be without the lever.
>>46764847
Don't even bother. It's the same Anon or two that has never actually read or played Mage 1e. He also likely hasn't read the 2e spoilers or intends to read the new edition. I doubt he's even come close to playing any other CofD gameline within the provided setting.
Is there anywhere to find the Ask Soul Cage podcasts from DaveB's old Mage game? The only links in the RPG.net thread are dead.
After three hours of stewing on what I can do, I'm crowdsourcing this bitch.
I'm finishing the redlines on my last Onyx Path work for the foreseeable future, the C20 introduction. I need ideas for inspirational material. The list I have now is too short and has a weird anime/video game:literature and music ratio, and I'm trying to fix that.
So if you guys have any books, music, movies, TV shows that make you think of oChangeling, I'm listening.Yes, I included Akibaranger.
>>46765205
Oh, and if there are any other RPGs that make you think "oChangeling" that'd also be a big help.
>>46765205
Beast the Primordial.
>>46765079
>Soul Cage Podcasts
Check-out this Onyx Path forum thread.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/709004-soul-cage-by-daveb-converted-to-mp3-by-ivona-reader
>>46764984
I like how you assume everyone who disagrees with your 'mages r best but totally not best lul' speil is one person.
>>46765205
There's a comic Shine, by Bebe Star
>>46765205
>>46765394
He did say "or two" but he's new to the whole mage thing
>>46763760
>someone mentions Mummy that isn't me
I call bullshit.
>>46765465
We were talking about the book that went up a spot on the monday meeting list last thread, before Amy started shitposting some argument about being unimaginative
>>46761057
>>46765394
I don't think "mages are the best." Mages are powerful, just like all other major splats.
Unfortunately, there are people on both sides of the mage supremacy argument who make claims found nowhere in any of the CofD books, have decided their own headcanon and houserules are actually the default setting and mechanics, or apparently just have the reading comprehension and persuasive skills of a tween who rides the short bus.
>>46765493
I'm just in a slump because Mummy is gonna be dead after Rio, Dark Eras, and the upcoming fiction.
>>46765516
>on both sides of the mage supremacy argument
the fact that you even said that shows that you're one of those trolls
>>46765518
Just as dead as when it first released.
>>46765518
You could just play vampire the Masquerade, it's the same thing
>>46764984
I recall him, I called him out on his bull shit last time.
>>46765516
The problem here is you're reversing the positions. You are the one with no ability to critically analyze a text, even one with mechanical and mathematical aspects, and have decided that because dave-sempai said so that your interpretation is cool.
>>46765544
>that because dave-sempai said so
i mean, he is literally the guy in charge of mage, deciding what is canon and what isn't, so yeah
>>46765518
>Complaining about Mummy's full suite of well-written supplements
If you're feeling a little low, just imagine how Geist fans feel with their one terribly edited corebook, an Underworld supplement that was a Blue Book, and OP's unwillingness to even commit to a 2e.
>>46765420
The sad thing is if she would just shut the fuck up she'd be a lot more tolerable. She's not good but she's not the worst if you ignore her personality.
>>46765582
Like the time he came out with some fragment of text on size and you decided that that made BEASTS the new 1e power splat since it dethroned mages, admitting their strength as well as taking a single line of text way out of context, a line of text that had zero qualifiers?
>>46764445
>>46764524
>>46764558
There isn't an xp total chart in Werewolf 2e, but don't just give them renown dots, that'll leave them comically underpowered when facing mid-tier threats.
There is a chart you can follow on page 82 of Vampire 2e, or page 81 of Demon.
Going off of those, I'd say a decent amount to start them with would be between 10 and 20 xp, depending on how long you want them to have been at it.
>>46765544
Even when speaking purely on the basis of 1e, you guys always bring up Dave--who had no hand in 1e until the tail end, with Left-Hand Path--and try to discredit the 1e evidence of how wrong you are by implying we're using information from 2e, then ignore the posts that follow pointing out that you're being a jackass.
I'm not the guy who you're replying to, but I'm familiar enough with how the game actually works to know that you're either on the shortbus, or a really good troll for perpetuating the argument with this many people for this long.
>>46765602
Was it her who was posting anonymously whenever she brought out some bit of shitty homebrew on the forums and saying "oh-ho, she's at it again! Look! She's on fire!"?
>>46765585
>, an Underworld supplement that was a Blue Book
the underworld isn't geist only
> and OP's unwillingness to even commit to a 2e.
they're getting one, stop whining about it, they just want to get one of the four cores before it out first
>>46765625
So do you. You flip back between 1 and 2, treating them as interchangeable, and that the Word of Dave affects them both.
>>46765582
>i mean, he is literally the guy in charge of mage, deciding what is canon and what isn't, so yeah
True, but Dave's rulings and opinions are often unnecessary if you bother to read the books. and not just rely on the anonymous ravings on message boards by many people who've never read most (or any) of the relevant books or so changed the settings or rules in their own chronicles that they're basically discussing a totally different game.
>>46765538
That's profoundly not true and I fucking loathe VtM anyway (except for Dark Ages, which is a masterpiece).
>>46765585
I'm the one person who can soundly say that I've played too much Geist. My old ST refused to try anything else.
>>46765667
>True, but Dave's rulings and opinions are often unnecessary
Sorry but it's mage fans who cry out for Dave to answer every little squabble they have and justify every argument
>>46765614
what the fuck are you talking about?
>>46765672
>That's profoundly not true and I fucking loathe VtM anyway (except for Dark Ages, which is a masterpiece).
It's just dark ages but starting older
you're an old vampire who wakes up whenever your ghoul needs you, sometimes on your own
you have old fashioned views about homosexuality and capital punishment
they even share the first city
>>46765689
There's a throw away comment about size adding a penalty to the supernal casting roll by DaveB on the WW forums. No real context or explanation. Someone turned it into a beast-jerk, saying that Mages weren't the power splat anymore since Beasts were immune to them with their effective size of 20-something.
>>46765649
No, I really don't. As far as I've witnessed, the only time there's any flip-flopping is when someone references one of the thousands of things from the books you aren't familiar with, then you(one of unknown quantity of shitposters) say the same damn thing every time: "Oh, you've read Mage 2e?", and then a bunch of dumb asses hop on the bait and point out that it's from 1e. Otherwise, a vast majority of the talk remains grounded in 1e information.
>>46765687
Did you even read the rest of the post you quoted?
>if you bother to read the books. and not just rely on the anonymous ravings on message boards by many people who've never read most (or any) of the relevant books or so changed the settings or rules in their own chronicles that they're basically discussing a totally different game.
Literally saying the same thing as you.
>>46765717
oh. that's dumb.
>>46765722
Oh, so you're going back to lip service to the idea that there's only one person who could ever disagree with what you see as your own perfect wisdom but heavily implying it's only me?
Is this going to be like where Beast isn't an otherkin power fantasy?
>>46765715
Vampires don't have a purpose or amnesia. They also haven't been around for most of recorded history unless you're a methuselah, which is beyond the scope of the average game.
It also doesn't pander to my shameless Egyptomania save for the absolute trainwreck that is the Setites, who are stupid and should be a Baali branch anyway.
>>46765717
IIRC that entire issue arose from people misreading the now-invalidated leak of Beast way back, where one of their things let them add their Lair rating to their effective Size by spending Satiety or something along those lines.
>>46765750
>(one of unknown quantity of shitposters)
Congrats on validating my point that you, specifically, are nothing but someone with horrible reading comprehension. I don't know how many people there actually arguing on the side of Mage Supremacy being real, so there is an unknown quantity. I did not imply anything, but when I say 'one of many', it's because you don't all post the same thing at the same time.
And no, Beast is 100% a badly-written otherkin power fantasy.
>>46765787
>egyptomania
>not playing in an ascendant She-Ka-Gau.
>>46765825
I don't know what that is but I'm still mad that the Hem-Ka Sobk didn't get into Mage20.
>>46765687
>Mage fans who cry out for Dave to answer
As well they should, particularly when so many people apparently lack the ability or willingness to actually read and understand the simple text in the damn books.
Whether you or others like it or not, Dave is the current Mage 2e developer and was a author on a number of Mage 1e products (and all other nWOD/CofD gamelines). He is one of the the best (and very few) authorities we have on both nMage and CofD, no one with a comparable background or credentials has ever contradicted him, and his word is law concerning Mage 2e, particularly revisions and changes to 1e.
>>46765819
So both of your points boil down to not knowing what you're talking about and yelling 'no u'.
Got it. Next shitposter, please. We've got a thread to run here. I would like a second high school intellectual if possible, preferably wearing a fedora. I'm feeling euphoric. The current troll seems like more of a trench coat and cargo shorts man.
>>46765842
The Chicago book has a mage adventure that involves them needing to stop an ascendant magician-spirit that is trying to complete Root's work (i think it was root) in opening a portal to the mystic realms. Basically if it succeeds it becomes a full blown Egyptian city in the middle of America, culturally and physically. Time is reworked so that Root developed from his normal egyptomania to a full blown psychosis and everyone went along with it. It's pretty cool.
>>46765895
Early nWoD has a lot of neat shit hiding in it. Does that tie into the Chicago Workings SAS about the feuding geomancers?
Anyone ever play combat in a "each damage has a change of inflicting a tilt" kind of way?
I don't know the exact math for it, but I could imagine rolling a body location dice and inflicting tilts if the right damage was done, instead of having to aim for it
It goes against the easy narrative nature of the game but it could defintely make the combat grittier.
>>46765954
I doubt it, somehow. It's been a while since I've needed to use it for a game, and never read SAS.
>>46765973
Most of the adventures were shit but had real gems in them.
There's one for Requiem for Rome that lays out how the Cainite Heresy inherited its Endowment from the Aves Minerva, a pagan Conspiracy during the time of Rome. This is of course hiding inside a "go to a building then don't die as a Hunter burns it down because reasons" adventure.
So about the Lodge of Apollo.
>"PRAISE THE SUN!"
That is all, have a nice day.
>>46763323
Chronicles of Holy Fuck Exalted3ed's finally out
No backer charms yet it seems, but the ones in the book will be plenty to counter your fagness
>>46766081
Is it just me, or does it seem like all of the Lodges in The Pack are real weirdos?
Thousand Steel Teeth seem to be the most "normal," unless Screaming Moon is less dramatic than it sounds.
>>46766081
>>46766261
I feel like the Lodge of Apollo is probably going to be a more Cahalith-dominated lodge focused around appreciating beauty and spreading knowledge, in all forms.
>>46766341
I don't think a Lodge would be blind enough to name itself after a solar deity and not acknowledge Helios.
There's also the part where Chris mentioned on the forums that they're odd.
>The Temple of Apollo is. Well. Nonstandard, shall we say.
>>46766394
Huh. Neat.
So anything with a power stat can't practice mortal magic, and some things without.
They ever get into why? Which part of the human soul gives them that supernatural authority over the world?
>>46766777
Mortal magic can only be practiced by, well, mortals.
However, supernaturals practiced such magic *before* they became supernatural (e.g., Awakened, embraced, first change, etc.). It is implied in some books that those with a mortal occult bent sometimes more easily transition and practice the relevant (and similar) supernatural sorceries of their new existence.
>>46766777
I honestly have to wonder, because most mortal magic is basically utilizing the secret laws of reality (the 'occult physics' that the God-Machine is fond of) rather than anything inherent to humanity. It isn't like Awakened magic where you can say "no human soul so it doesn't work," like with Vampires and Werewolves, so who fucking knows.
The real answer is probably in mechanical balancing (saving us from telekinetic Kindred, which is a great ska band name) rather than anything in-setting.
>>46766858
Yes, I've seen. But what I'm actually curious about is if they've gotten into it, and the specific part of the mortal experience that makes them able to practice it, or if it's ended up like Void Spirits - interesting and abandoned.
>>46766878
Even pre-god machine, most of it was fairly subtle in terms of thaumaturgy and not something the God Machine would be likely to bother with. Reality-horrors were less so, but the price was obscene. Psychics are the closest thing to full blown sorcerers with enormous powers, and even they're pretty tame, wether SS or GMC.
>>46766878
Clearly the GM has balance in mind in the reality it controls.
Sure it could let the band known as Telekinetic Kindred destroy the world, but they already have their power, and mortals have theirs.
>>46766888
I don't believe it's the "mortal experience," but rather the mortal soul or existence. Supernatural beings are simply different, and have access to, and are similarly limited by, their own supernatural powers and rules.
Also, keep in mind that the game rules only model certain experiences in a meta sense.
For example, focus on the Sanctity of Merits rule and the transition from mortal to supernatural. If a human psychic Awakens, he will lose the relevant merit dots, but they will (or should) reflect his beginning Path and Arcana selections. If that same human psychic had telepathy and was embraced, he would probably have dots in Domination or Majesty, etc.
>>46766938
>the reality it controls.
Wrong. The Machine understands how the universe works and manipulates it within those existing rules; that's how the Embeds it gives to Angels work.
The Machine is powerful, sure, but it inhabits the world, not controls it. I'd honestly argue that the Exarchs have more pull than the God-Machine.
>>46767007
Yeah, I figured that, but that the soul was part of the experience. Appears at birth, disappears at death, no fanfare in either case, seemingly a fungible good as well. And I've seen the 'recommended' parts for the transitions, but I was hoping the game designers had gone into it.
Or, like I said before, that it might have become something like Void Spirits and thrown by the wayside.
>>46767025
I disagree. If the Exarchs have so much control, then why are their agents in this world such dumpstools?
The GM is where its at, and the Exarchs are just a bunch of distant pissers who are too busy floating off in the who knows where to care about reality anymore.
If the GM can create agents that can do pretty much anything they want with reality, if even the broken ones can manipulate reality on a whim, if it even has access to alternate realities and times, I'd say the GM has more reality control than the Exarchs by far.
>>46767089
All the exarchs need to do is have a servant - or do it themselves - start an Imperial Working and bam, the universe complies.
>>46767035
I don't believe the nature and extent of mortal magic compared to supernatural has ever been fully defined in either the first or second editions of the nWOD/CofD games, particularly since it exists with associated "lesser" splats and groups of each major splat as well as part of the core mortal rules.
However, there is substantial discussion and exploration of this topic that you might find interesting or enlightening in the 1e mortal book, Second Sight.
If you haven't read SS, I would highly recommend it for ideas. Sadly, a lot of work would be necessary to make it 2e compatible.
>>46767114
I've read it. I mentioned reading it in an earlier post.
>>46767089
>>46767108
The God Machine's actions serve the Exarchs, even if that's not the GM's intent or objections.
The control, fear, pain, etc., is exactly what the Exarchs crave and desire, and the GM even seeks to prevent anything too untoward happening to our reality.
Why would the Exarchs or their agents act directly against the GM except in the most unusual or isolated circumstances. In anything, the Exarch would assist.
If the GM someday becomes an actual issue or concern, the Exarch have more than ample means to deal with a potential GM problem.
>>46767138
I didn't notice you mentioning you read Second Sight. If that book didn't answer your questions, I highly doubt any other published or announced CofD book will posses the answers you seek.
>>46767206
It's an old book, and as the rest of the thread shows, there's plenty of interesting bits and pieces buried in 1e that folks don't know about.
>>46767190
And why would the GM do anything to the Exarchs? The worst case scenario, it would need to send an angel to clean up some idiotic mess they've caused. But otherwise their interests are outside of this world, and so unrelated to the work of the GM.
If the Exarchs moved against the GM, they would get wrecked like anyone else.
>>46767089
I recall someone once saying that one of their players goals was to kick the Exarchs from power, or to remove the abyss. It was one or the other.
I remember that Dave response was that without the Exarchs the humanity would no longer have something backing them in the Supernal, while removing the abyss would allow the Exarchs free reign over the world.
So I believe that the Exarchs actually don't have that much maneuverability in regards to the world.
>>46767108
Well the god machine can create Rank 6+ Angels to counter that. Just saying.
>>46767219
I hope the Dark Eras Companion gives us some 2e updates for Second Sight stuff. The new Skinchanger merit is nice and elegant, but I'd like to see Thaumaturges get a real overhaul.
Sekhem sorcerers also have me all sorts of excited, but "atamajakki wants Mummy content" isn't exactly a new or worthwhile post.
>>46767234
Rank 6 influences aren't actual supernal influences, they're just numina that replicate something in a very vague way. At best there would be a tiny subsection of the real thing on the supernal to represent the 'changed' thing as a subset of the real thing.
>>46767238
Its ok. We come to expect it.
Also im hyped as fuck for it to.
>>46767251
The end result is still the same. Change to the universe on a fundamental level.
>>46767234
That doesn't really... make sense? At all?
One of the Exarchs is ostensibly the reason the Abyss has any influence upon the world at all, assuming The Gate has actually done what they claim she did. And the Exarchs are by no means the only human element in the Supernal; there are all sorts of archmasters that aren't oppression incarnate that could influence the Phenomenal World.
>>46767238
What exactly do we know about Sekhem sorcerers? Is it a mortal only thing, or is it a "Hey, Bob the Vampire Sorcerer of many spells is over there mucking around again"?
Or werewolf sorcerer. Whatever.
>>46767261
To the universe, not the supernal. The imperial workings change the supernal to change the universe. Improvised numina change the universe which gets a few bytes of data in a text file somewhere in the supernal.
Clearly what /cofd/ needs is a sort of superwar book.
A what if of Exarchs vs Idigam/Gods vs the GM vs ... I don't know what Vampires bring to this besides elders.
>>46767234
The abyss is necessary, according to the Gate. Witjhout it, the Fallen would strangle the Supernal, since it's been forever broken by the Ascent and the Ladder.
>>46767283
Idigam aren't really that powerful. At least, unless the werewolf fags are shitposting this week, anyway. Then they'er all powerful.
>>46767301
They aren't on the same level as some of the other big antagonists, more tricky than powerful. But then again the super powerful spirits seem a lot more vague, and the Idigam are more concrete a concept (which is ironic).
>>46767274
Sekhem sorcerers are ostensibly mortal, though To The Strongest shows us that Sekhem is the material of the world as it actually manifests rather than being from somewhere else or the Supernal. I would assume anyone with the requisite know-how could do it, but that know-how is shackled to an empire 5,000 dead unless something changes.
I'd love a crossover book for Mummy. Seeing how everyone else interacts with Iremite stuff would be a blast. Bonus points for bringing back the Forsaken god-kings of Sumer.
>>46767269
>>46767284
What is this gate?
>>46767325
What the hell is To The Strongest?
And hey, if mortals can bind vessels and even Seba with the right knowledge, there's no reason why some of the texts won't survive, even if it's in the back of a musty library in the astral.
>>46767340
The Gate is the eleventh Exarch, and has no Ministry or Arcana. They brought the Abyss between the Fallen and the Supernal because of reasons.
>>46767341
To The Strongest is the Hellenestic Mage setting in Dark Eras. It briefly covers how Egyptian mages are fucking terrified of the 'Scorpion Dynasty' and seek to understand then destroy any relics of it.
>>46767340
>>46767357
>>46767284
>>46767269
>The Gate
Are you all mad!
Have you not read the Seers of the Throne supplement.
One never discusses..., *it*, including other Seers. You might draw its attention.
>>46767340
A minor Exarch who is almost certainly not so minor. Parametric language is the tongue of her faithful, who may or may not all be mages, she has a legacy that represents those in her order who seek to balance the fallen and the abyss. The Secret Order of the Gate. She's basically satan-as-exarch.
The Order tend to get a bit weird. They go crazy pretty quick, and either destroy abyssals or summon them for Her. Oh, they tend to walk in that weird membrane of reality that exists between reality and the abyss. It's a bit odd. Closest thing I can think of is the Purified's 3 dot siddhi that lets them walk into the 'place between', but that's probably closer to Scion's overworld. I've got a sneaking suspicion that any non-mage who wanted to could learn it, but it'd cost them their sanity. Sort of like the low-tonuge. Usefulness debateable.
>>46767357
>because of reasons.
Ah, the most important alibi for causing irreparable harm to the fabric of everything everywhere.
>>46767357
Oh. Any rules, aside from those in mummy on mortals binding vessels?
>>46767387
>Are you all mad!
Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.
For those still discussing the God Machine vs. the Exarchs, you should read the crossover section in the Demon Players Guide which discusses the purportedly amicable relationship between Seers and GM servants, and Imperial Mysteries which postulates that the GM machine if a fallen supernal god, presumably kicked out by the Exarchs, trying to build a supernatural matrix to ascend once again.
>>46767389
>the place between
That reminds me; how odd is it that the Arisen treat Twilight as a seperate realm, rather than an ephemeral layer over reality? Does any other gameline do this?
Ratjer than be like "spirits and ghists shift into Teilight," Nerter-Khertet is a distinct place with landmarks and entities within it.
>>46767407
We're getting rules in the Cleopatra setting in the Dark Eras Companion.
>>46767234
>Rank 6+ Angels
Meh, Ochemata of the Exarchs laugh at such puny and insignificant beings.
>>46767457
Even without the 1e vs 2e issues, Mummy's setting and rules are a potential crossover mess.
The Mummy corebook even explicitly notes this problem.
>>46767457
Well, the Between in this case isn't the Twilight. But that said, I think they do treat it as Twilight, but it's not really Twilight to them. It's overlaid with Duat thanks to the resonance and sympathy they have with the Underworld. So your average mummy looks at it as something else.
>>46767491
>vampires have been around forever and make good antagonists or allies
>werewolves aren't terribly relevant because the Arisen don't really deal with spirits
>mages are great for poking their head into things and causing problems
>some prometheans could easily be botched attempts at a new Rite
>not much reason to cross over with changeling
>hunters fit everything
>GEIST FITS INCREDIBLY EASILY AND WELL
>Demon not so much
>Beast a shit
If Mummy is so crossover-unfriendly, then why are we getting an official crossover setting? It works just as well as any other game - fine, once you do the work.
>>46767535
But Geist is also 1e... and also shit.
>>46767190
>>46767227
I'd say the GM doesn't serve the Exarchs, but at the same time it would take more time and resources to excise it from reality then it is worth, especially because of how very little of what it does actually negatively impacts their plans. Removing the GM would take more than a simple hand wave, especially when you consider the fact that you can change the Supernal by changing the Phenomenal, not just the other way around. In a fight the Exarchs would definitely win in my mind, but that kind of fight would completely fuck up the Pax Arcanum seeing as how the constant changes in reality and angels, archangels, Rank 6 Cryptids, Mages, Archmages, and Exarch Ochemata running around would probably tear the Shadow and Astral a new asshole.
>>46767535
>why are we getting an official crossover setting
Really? We're getting a Mage / Mummy crossover setting because a backer or two on the Kickstarter was willing to fund it. No more, no less.
One stretch goal or backer tier crossover section in Dark Eras is not a testament for or against the ease of Mummy crossover.
>>46767610
Let's not forget the hundreds of doomday prevention infrastructure.
>>46767662
Oh yeah, I forgot that the GM has an arbitrary amount of alternate doomed timelines it prevented and sealed in a pocket dimension in Seattle that it's keeping for a rainy day.
>>46767662
I was just about to say this.
The God-Machine allegedly has rediculous amounts of infrastructure created for the singular purpose of protecting planet Earth and all of its inhabitants from annihilation.
>>46767690
Rainy Day Dimensions is the name of my prog rock band.
>>46767702
Unlike most ridiculous villains, the GM understands the most important rule, 'Earth is where all my stuff is'.
>>46767714
Gotta protect your investments.
>>46767714
The God Machine and the Exarchs are de facto allies given their current priorities, goals and methodologies, at least for now....
>>46763734
>"You’ll get a link before it goes on sale as an Advance PDF."
What the fuck!? I'd have to back Beast to get Mage early?
That's some fucking extortion!
>>46767757
Yeah
>>46767656
It's one DaveB suggested.
>>46767757
Though them being allies or not wanting to fight doesn't relate in any way to which is more powerful.
>>46764782
Huh. Looking under that Successes and Consequences heading, it looks as if magic is a lot easier in Awakening.
Have Matter making, apply size penalties for making something large, apply Taxi symbol upon reality, have taxi. (The driver is impossible though, due to soul. Closest would be a philosophical zombie.)
Same with money.
>>46765538
Or Requiem.
I believe that someone staked the supplements and left them in a shallow grave somewhere.
>>46765819
>IIRC that entire issue arose from people misreading the now-invalidated leak of Beast way back, where one of their things let them add their Lair rating to their effective Size by spending Satiety or something along those lines.
Still, a Changeling can reach size 16, if giant, and at Wyrd 5+ (or Wyrd 10, without the Merit).
So there are things that are seriously hard to touch with magic.
>>46767811
>Though them being allies or not wanting to fight doesn't relate in any way to which is more powerful.
Exactly. The entire earlier discussion is basically just another inane and useless white room tangent.
More importantly, if beings of such incredible scale and power really went at it, there wouldn't be much left of reality for anyone to care or notice.
In a Exarchs vs. God Machine death battle, it wouldn't be a matter of who would win, but that *everyone* would lose.
>>46767804
>It's one DaveB suggested.
Well, then it better not suck.
Is Dave actually writing all or part of the chapter, or just developing it alone or with CAS?
>>46767906
I believe it's all him.
>you will literally never have a cute Nosferatu waifu
Why live?
>>46768212
>Nossie Bloodline whose take on the Curse makes them look like anime characters, also whenever they use Nightmare the become inexplicably hyperdeformed.
That is all, have a nice day
Anyone remember how long it took for a Kuei-Jin to achieve the various dharma levels in the fourth age? Fifth his is easily found, but fourth is well hidden.
>>46767535
>If Mummy is so crossover-unfriendly, then why are we getting an official crossover setting?
The same reason it's gotten everything else. Poor planning and a devoted circle of hipsters.
>It works just as well as any other game - fine, once you do the work.
Yeah, because it's just a knockoff of existing games
>>46766261
Lodges are pretty weird in general; they're hunter-cults with close ties to highly-involved totemic spirits that like to hide heresies or outright blasphemies under their skirts.
But yes, when it came to the sample Lodges in The Pack, I figured it wouldn't be particularly well-served by having a bunch of anodyne, unremarkable examples to work from. That was one of my problems with 1e Lodges, after all.
>>46766394
The Temple of Apollo also have the weirdest sacred hunt benefits.
>Do you have any favorite fan theory? Do you have any yourself?
Bear in mind that I'm currently playing my first game, and that I have literally not read any of the rulebooks save for the bits necessary for me to know.
I have the idea that since paradox is caused by the consensus 'believing' that supernatural things aren't how things work, individuals with unusually high levels of 'belief' or 'faith' effectively become agents of the consensus. While around a normal innocent, a mage is struck with a paradox, the consensus is much stronger in the presence of an individual who is capable of enormous feats of faith.
This is where people with True Faith get their powers from.
>>46769126
>they're hunter-cults with close ties to highly-involved totemic spirits that like to hide heresies or outright blasphemies under their skirts.
I'm really liking this part.
I'm a bit tempted to run a competition of 'can you guess what the sacred prey of the sample Lodges is before the book comes out' but I dunno what I'd give as a prize.
>>46769411
Mention one of the winners characters in your next Hunting Ground?
Ideally in a way that's not "and this werewolf got raped to death by a pack of wild dogs"
>>46769461
That's the sort of thing I can't offer, though; I have no idea what I'll be working on, or when, and OP might well take a dim view of such a promise.
>>46769411
A sense of smug satisfaction?
So are Wayward Hunters basically The Punisher?
>>46769533
If you concentrate on humans, sure.
Otherwise you're probably more like any given murder-happy modern fantasy protagonist.
Metaplot, ladies and gentlemen, how do I get into it?
I am specifically talking about Vampire: the Masquerade metaplot. I know that Beckett's Jyhad Diary is incoming at some point in the future, and it will have quite a bit of "potential" metaplot in it. But how do I get into the proper original metaplot without reading the whole V:tM line?
Maybe there's a good summary online I was unable to find? Maybe I should focus on specific books?
On a slightly unrelated note, did anyone ever liberate the old books that are properly OCRed and sold on DriveThru? Some of the scans are nigh unreadable with my bad eyesight, and I could not buy the books of DT even if I had the dough (no credit card, no way of getting money online where I live).
Time of Thin Blood scan is unreadable, for example. And the DT version preview shows a clean book.
>>46769516
That might work. Smug satisfaction is often a powerful motivator.
>>46769493
So you're saying that being raped to death by wild dogs is a high probability on all fronts for anyone in a werewolf book.
>>46769633
In Apocalypse that's considered a feature.
>>46769640
A GLORIOUS DEATH IN KNOTTY BATTLE. AROOOO.
>>46765634
Claire Redfield isn't AmyV. I don't think that was Claire posting her own work, there's a lot of OPP forums/4chan crossover.
>>46769591
>But how do I get into the proper original metaplot without reading the whole V:tM line?
You could read a summary.
But otherwise you'll have to read the whole V:tM line. That's the problem with metaplot. It's stretched across every fucking book.
>>46769702
AmyV used to post new Shadowrun stuff before she lost her job there. Can't really blame them for getting annoyed with her about it.
>>46767491
>>46767535
Meh. For my purposes, which is pretty much "look over there, it's a supernatural/Mummy!", crossover's pretty managable. I always just assumed that the Nerter-Khertet is another, far more substantial Twilight Frequency. Given that the Twilight is pretty much "anything goes: the cosmological concept", it figures that there'd be something like it in there. It kind of reminds me of a non-Supernal version of an Emanation Realm, based on what little we know about them.
I want to run some werewolf. Should I look into The Forsaken or W20?
>>46771765
Personally, I think Werewolf the Foresaken 2e absolutely nails the concept.
>>46771765
That depends COMPLETELY on what you want from the game.
>>46771860
Please elaborate.
>>46771765
I like Forsaken 2e more, but it depends what you're after.
Forsaken is all about lizard brain catharsis; things like rage, the urge to hunt, to dominate, to possess; territoriality, loyalty to kin, and so on. It's a game to play if you want to feel torn apart while tearing things apart.
Apocalypse is like playing Dark Souls: The universe is winding down because the cosmic forces are utterly out of whack, and truthfully, the natural balance probably isn't one you'd like anyway. Somehow, being a Captain Planet Villain can seem sympathetic if you look at it from the right angle but you've got to kill them anyway. It's full of goofy shit, like running through the Shadow of the internet and the like.
In short, Apocalypse is hopelessly grimdark to the point that it steps into grimderp, but there's a 90s charm to it in that niche.
Forsaken is about being the supernatural equivalent of a Park Ranger because of inherited guilt and a nature that drives you to hunt; not out of a moral nature or a need to keep balance, but because you're a wolf and that's what you must do.
>>46771888
Do you want warriors or hunters?
>>46771955
Which system is better mechanically?
>>46772001
I'd say CofD in general is better, myself, but it's a while since I've had experience with oWoD. oWoof combat was virtually unplayable, though, once upon a time.
>>46772001
I think CofD is better. It's less clunky.
>>46767913
I'm just Developing it (and it was my idea to start with) - Malcolm and Eric wrote it, and all the material about the crossover - mages in the setting, mummies in the setting, and how their mechanics interact - was Malcolm, who's written on almost every Mummy and/or Mage book going.
It could not be in safer hands.
>>46767535
Largely *because* it's awkward to do a crossover for, and a Dark Era gave us the wordcount to do it in.
Writers like a challenge as much as anyone, Anon.
>>46771955
>Forsaken is about being the supernatural equivalent of a Park Ranger
I feel like it's more like organized crime.
>>46773474
I'm still confused on how developer/writer is split, or what it means. But when do we get more Deviant info?
>>46773521
>I feel like it's more like organized crime.
Yeah. Think Yakuza. You have strange codes of honour that outsiders don't really get. You are (not unjustly) seen as murdering thugs. But you really look out for what's yours. You protect that shit.
>>46773496
GIB MAEG PLOX
HUEHUEHUE I REPORT YUO
>>46773540
I was actually thinking biker gangs, but that works, too. Really, most organized crime of any sort, from biker gangs to Vory to Yaks to Triads to the traditional Sicilian Mafia. Hell, even gangbangers. In some ways, upstart gangbangers is the most accurate, because you aren't necessarily trying to impress some big boss from some other chapter.
>>46773496
Say Dave speaking of mummies. Mummy mentions that they cannot be possessed, but Strix entry say they can possess mummies.
Last I checked you made the Strix entry in V:tR, so how can Strix possess mummies?
>>46763323
>>46773569
>HUEHUEHUE
This is why we need to BUILD WALL.
>>46773591
The sidebar makes it pretty clear, I think: Strix gets all Strix up in the Mummy, the Mummy and their soul/template go straight back to Duat until it can reform around one of its Canoptic Jars, and the Strix rides around whatever corpse the Sahu formed around. Strix expects to pilot a super death machine, discovers it's just riding around a regular old dead body, shrugs, and does hookers and blow until it can fuck with Vampires.
>>46773773
I kind of want a Beastpire, at least because it will unshittify the Beast in question. That or a Vampire created when one of the Birds of Dis snuffs out the light of a Hero, they basically become Artorias with a shotgun.
>"Soon I will be consumed, by them, but he Dark!"
>>46773854
>but he Dark!
*by the Dark
God I cannot type this evening.
>>46773521
>>46773540
>>46773586
This is all fair.
>>46773496
Hey, Dave, how's it feel watching anticipation for something you worked on drive people mad?
I'm serious, I'm curious how strange that must feel.
>>46773933
>Hey, Dave, how's it feel watching anticipation for something you worked on drive people mad?
>I'm serious, I'm curious how strange that must feel.
Dave is a tease, he gets off on our frustration.
He'd make a fine living as a pimp if nerd-baiting doesn't work out for him
>>46773966
He is the conductor of the hype train.
>>46773773
90% of why Mummy isn't popular is because reading it gives people a headache.
Like, I have no idea what most of this post is trying to say.
>>46773992
>train
>mage never gets released
>mfw Dave is Mr. Bones
>>46774058
Here's hoping
>>46774058
No Mr Bones was a Moros Lich with Mind. Dave is Komodo Dragon.
Making one of the Writers into a Pangean may have been slightly unwise
Demons are all KEIKAKU DOORI. The God Machine is just using them to run actions that are out of its protocol to maintain stability.
>>46774097
>MUH METAPLOT
>EVERYTHING IS EXACTLY ONE THING
And thus, we come full circle
>>46774031
>games I don't play have terms I don't understand
No shit. If I made a post about a Mastigos trying to fight an Acamoth inside his Oneiros and you'd never read Mage, you'd be just as confused.
>>46774134
It IS quite hard to be a Lich and a Pangaean at the same time...
...
...
...
Unless, of course the path to Lichdom was to transform himself into a Pangaean.
Anyhow. We all know that Dave is REALLY just a mage, and a seeker of Archmastery. The production of Mage 2nd ed is his Seeking, and he'll take it with him to the Supernal when he succeeds.
>>46774175
>>46774147
Agreed. That said Mummy has some hella complicated terminology, what with all the Egyptian terms.
>>46771765
2e is pretty great
>>46774190
right, because Werewolf didn't do that at all
>>46774058
I want to get off Mr. Brookshaw's Wild Ride.
>>46767535
>>werewolves aren't terribly relevant because the Arisen don't really deal with spirits
werewolves don't just deal with spirits, and can hunt mummies and cults or anything else mummy related
>>46774209
Yeah. But they have English terms for everything, as well.
>>46774188
Did... I do something weeaboo there?
>>46774238
>Did... I do something weeaboo there?
Nah
>>46774209
It didn't, everything in Werewolf, and in most of the games, has a corresponding English word.
Mummy has no option for that. You either learn Mummy language, or you just don't understand wtf is going on.
>>46771765
I'm in a Werewolf 2e game myself, and what I'll say is that I love everything about it, minus maybe conditions and beats. Not because they're done poorly in the game (in fact, Werewolf implements them well), but because the system doesn't work that well in my opinion even in the best case scenario.
Having played both, I will say that I completely prefer Forsake 2e overall, but recommend oWerewolf if you enjoy dark humored satire of consumerism.
oWerewolf is also the real Cyberpunk splat if you pick up Book of the Weaver and/or focus on Glasswalkers.
>>46769702
>Claire Redfield isn't AmyV
>>46774385
Shut up, Amy, you wish you were.
>>46774385
>>46774350
But every game is guilty of that. I don't really see how Mummy has more difficult terminology than any other game; you can't figure out what an Idigam is from just reading the word, and I doubt the average reader knows enough about alchemy to know what Azoth means.
>>46774350
It does, actually, they're just not used as game terms, when they probably should be. It's something I'd switch around were I in charge of a theoretical Mummy 2e.
>>46774385
They're not the same person. We might as well start spreading rumors that DaveB is just Phil Satyros Brucato in a bizarre Doctor Jekyll, Mr. Hyde type situation.
>>46774437
Idigam is about the only thing that doesn't have an English translation.
The rest of the stuff do.
>>46774437
>But every game is guilty of that. I don't really see how Mummy has more difficult terminology than any other game; you can't figure out what an Idigam is from just reading the word, and I doubt the average reader knows enough about alchemy to know what Azoth means.
Idigam is a monster.
Azoth is energy.
Ba is one fifth of your soul but not your soul.
>>46774463
Dude, that's creepy.
>>46774440
Jekyll and Hyde would make an interesting story for Mage.
>>46774437
Eh, no. No amount of Mummy love can fix how badly it was laid out.
>>46774440
has it right. Other games would go like 'Gauru-War Form'
While Mummy is like 'Gibbledeegook. Just remember that, you care enough to remember that right?'
>>46774437
Well, keep in mind, you said it yourself: you're an Egyptophile. You live and breathe this stuff. Some people have some serious stumbles with First Tounge, and that's just made up faux-Sumerian, let alone a real language almost unrelated to the English tongue.
Like I said, I think if the game terminology just uses the English terms and the fluff sticks to the Egyptian/Iremite terms and making it clear which is which, things'd be just fine.
>>46774463
Amy stop being disgusting, no one wants to fuck you.
>>46774483
>Dude, that's creepy.
Welcome to the world of darkness
>>46774491
>, and that's just made up faux-Sumerian
It's actually not related to sumerian
>>46774477
>Azoth is energy.
Also, Azoth, despite being non-English (it's late Latin) is really easy to pronounce. (Because of late Latin's influence on English).
>>46774477
Can you have an Idigam whose Bane is Azoth?
>>46774483
>Jekyll and Hyde would make an interesting story for Mage.
>Implying Hyde isn't just a Demon using the Jekyll identity for Cover.
>>46774486
Each Pillar has an English translation: Heart, Spirit, Essence, Name, and Shadow. That doesn't stop them from being abstract concepts, but at least they have English names.
Sekhem is your power stat, you don't need to know what it means to get that. Duat is another name for the Underworld, Nerter-Khertet is another name for Twilight. While it probably won't come up too often, your Sahu is your body. Amkhat are a type of monster, as are Shuankhsen. All of thr Guilds have Egyptian names and English nicknames.
Is all that really more to digest than what another game has you learn?
>>46774546
sure
>>46774582
is your heart pillar your actual heart?
is essence the same as spirit essence? what is spirit? is your shadow your shadow?
>>46774582
>Each Pillar has an English translation: Heart, Spirit, Essence, Name, and Shadow. That doesn't stop them from being abstract concepts, but at least they have English names.
Yes. But they are never used.
In Werewolf you don't see Iron Masters consistently called the Farsil Luhal in the text. It's every now and then, when the context makes sure one knows it's about the Iron Masters.
Mummy was hard as hell for me to get into, personally because of the weird terms. And I'm a huge-ass werewolf fan.
>>46774640
Pillars are probably the most confusing aspect of Mummy, especially considering that they don't impact the narrative too often and are mechnically just a pool of resources to be spent on buffs/healing/fueling your powers.
I respect the authors' dedication to actually getting the fivefold souls right based in actual Kemetic belief, but 2e really needs to work on making them (and especially Decrees) relevant.
>>46774713
Also guild-names.
And those head-aspect things.
>>46774726
And the lack of reason
>it's been over a thousand years since you last awakened, master
>go get that bowl someone took
>then go back to sleep until we call you again
GOOD THING I HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO DESTROY A NATION! THAT BOWL AIN'T GETTIN AWAY FROM ME!
>most of OPP are British
No wonder they take so long to finish anything
>>46774803
Well, getting those relics is the reason Mummies are even walking around in the first place...
And once you get your bowl, you're pretty much free to do your own thing until your power dwindles.
