So, what's next in 40k? edition.
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
First for the Emperor's Chaplains!
>>46745015
I can see that. Currently I was looking to Black Templars tactics for the double-special-weapon Crusader squads, close-combat scout blobs, and just general assault stuff supported by longer-ranged firepower.
>>46745003
First for eldar are balanced thanks to the SM update
Reposting from last thread.
I'm a different anon asking for Dark Eldar building advice. They're going to be my 3rd army, 1st was Grey Knights, then Tau(They're almost done. I just need to buy a hammerhead). I know about venomspam and raider squads, but what should I start with as my first purchase(s). Or should I wait for a "Start Collecting Dark Eldar"?
Also, what are some general tactics that give the Dark Eldar that "Fast and furious" playstyle?
>>46745040
how'd you do it?
>>46745051
Oh, I remember these guys. How are they coming along?
>>46745053
Imperial Fists sorta got shit on in AoD, though.
> No Fortification slot in their Decurion, so Fists aren't happy
> No place for Pedro in the Decurion, so Crimsons aren't happy
> No Crusader Squads in the Decurion, so Black Templar aren't happy
> Worst Decurion buffs, so WAACfags aren't happy
> Barely any new fluff, so flufffags aren't happy
>>46745091
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/How_to_make_custom_waterslide_decals
and
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/499-carcharodon-badab-war-era/
>>46745079
I'm not sure where the best starting point is, aside from Kabalites in transports, but Scourges with special weapons are quite fast and killy.
I personally use Reavers which are very fast, but if somebody looks at them funny they tend to die.
>>46745108
>> No place for Pedro in the Decurion, so Crimsons aren't happy
>> No Crusader Squads in the Decurion, so Black Templar aren't happy
It's called gladius detachment, they're second founding so they don't get the nice things.
>>46745060
TOO FUCKING LATE FILTHY XENOS. ELDAR FUCKERY WILL ALWAYS BE UNBALANCED AS FUCK. REPENT AND DIE, OR DIE UNREPENTED FUCKER.
>>46745093
Ah, well the bulk of my work right now is in filling out a comission from the owner of my FLGS. I need money for certain paints to do proper highlights on my chaplain and Ancient Valentine.
Ancient Valentine himself is sitting in a bath of purple power, but I've taken to adding a shit-ton of venerable markings to his missile launchers. Also, he's gotten a Radio Antenna, so he can obviously communicate with the entire strike force and regale them with tales of his past glories.
>>46745079
I'd help you but you play Tau.
>>46745141
I mean in the Sternhammer.
>>46745134
Awesome, thanks
Maybe I'll make a Carcharodons army when my Ultramarines are a good size
>>46745108
Yeah, I had them in mind from before the supplement was around, and I was hoping they'd get some neat stuff, or at least a core formation that included Crusader squads. Sadly it was just warlord traits.
I haven't fully committed to them though, which is why I like hearing about alternatives.
>>46745060
Someone draw a bunch of Centurions using an Imperial fortification as a surfboard on top of a wave of dirt while shooting grav shots that penetrate flying chunks of wall.
With Warp Spiders being zooped out of the air by bodyswapping electro psykers.
Alright, I'm up against a team of Vraks Renegades: Unending Host Formation (Chaos Renegades) and Tzeentch Daemonhost on Tuesday. I've got an Eldar Aspect Host partner with Illic, Rangers, Dark Reapers, and a Fire Prism or two.
This is what I've got:
Built
Grukk Face-Rippa x 1
Boyz (Shoota) x 9
Boyz (Big Shoota) x 1
Boyz (Slugga) x 22
Nobz (Power Klaw) x 5
Nobz (Big Choppa) x 3
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) x 1
Gretchin x 10
Runtherd x 1
Lootas x 8
Mek (Kustom Mega Blasta) x 2
Trukk x 1
Deffkopta x 2
Deff Dread x 1
Mek Gun (Traktor Kannon) x 1
Unbuilt
Painboy x 2
Warboss x 1
Nobz x 12
Trukk x 2*
Mek Gun x 2
Lootas/Burnas x 4
Battle Wagon (with upgrade kit) x 1
Boyz x 22
Killa Kans x 3
Deff Dread x 1
Looted Wagon x 1
Mek x 2
Meganobz x 3
* If I build the Looted Wagon I'll pretty much have to sacrifice a Trukk.
I know both of my enemies will take at least one flying unit each. I suspect the Renegades player will lean heavily on artillery.
What should I build before Tuesday? Any formation recommendations?
>>46745191
Don't forget the other Librarian in the building conjuring extra armor all around it.
>>46745154
What, do you think I'm some WAAC 3 Riptides fag? No I run a fluffier list. I played them before they got the insane update.
>>46745134
>mfw bought a Carcharodons transfer sheet right before it sold out
>mfw they brought it back because me and some other guys kept emailing them about it
>mfw bought a second sheet before the second run ran out
I should have bought a shit ton of them but I didn't have enough money at the time. I really wish they wouldn't discontinue all these decals. Raptors, even Minotaurs have been discontinued, as well as some other old 40k ones. Even 30k legions aren't safe, many have sold out and War Hounds/World Eater decals are also OOP.
FW can't keep them in permanent stock because they literally lose money on them if not enough people buy them because apparently the company they used to print the decals is very expensive. They said they'd try looking for cheaper ones but apparently that didn't happen since they still don't stock the OOP decals.
It sucks but it is what it is. If even the Minotaurs aren't popular enough with their own dedicated IA volume and a set of in stock brass etching, there's no way a smaller chapter like Carcharodons will net many sales. Suspiciously enough, I don't see many Red Scorpions players yet FW gives them tons of support, appearances, and a transfer sheet in stock.
>>46745079
I would say having 6 squads of Kaballites all in whatever those small transport skimmers is a great place to start. Give them all anti-infantry weapons, and go to town with them. This is your 'core' of the army.
Then your next step in the collection is to just buy a bunch of things to support said core and accomodate for its weaknesses.
>>46745321
So far I'm gathering that I need some Kabalites, so I think they'll be my first purchase.
>>46745394
You need them for CAD troop and elite filling. I think their strongest and probably only good asset right now is the Corpsethief Claw formation, which is just spamming tons of Talos and acting like a super Thunderwolf/Necron Wraith/Khornedog army.
What is the best Army Builder program in your opinion?
>>46745487
I've only used Battlescribe. It gets the job done. My only complaint is that they didn't list Artificer Armor as being a 2+ save.
>>46745487
Pen and Paper. No weird glitches or bugs, and I can organize it however I want.
Posted in last thread and it received interest. Please don't mind the repost as I'd love a response:
I've been building models all weekend and listening to a small handful of horus heresy audiobooks I found on the internet. Is there a mega link for -all- the audiobooks out there for Black Library?
>>46745487
Your own mind. Learn to build your army in discrete chunks, such as blocks of 120, 160, and 200. A "Full" tactical squad is only 200 points, and you can take 6 of them for 1200 points to completely fill out a CAD.
Set up the rest of your collection in other discrete chunks, and just keep expanding.
It's how I show up to the FLGS, and create a list within the span of a minute to play games. And it helps keep my opponents on the edge when they realize I will never show up to the game with a list already written.
>>46745487
Excel, Notepad, your fingers, a keyboard, a pen or pencil and paper.
If you can't build your army without a program to help you, you need to study up on your codex a bit more.
>>46745571
What if an army builder program helped you be able to do pen and paper? Like remembering point values, upgrades, stats etc.
>>46745567
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
Enjoy. It's the "Enhanced" MEGA that has all of what you're looking for.
>>46745487
Battlescribe, just because it has all the forgeworld and special shit on one place so i dont have to sift through half a dozen pdfs. Its great for messing around and experimenting with lists. I then print out and keep the lists on a little binder in my gaming bag
>>46745571
This. Seriously. How many times do people wander into these threads with rules misunderstandings because they used Battlescribe instead of reading the rules?
Just recently I can recall someone who didn't think different formations in an army could have the same chapter tactics, or assumed that Crisis suits started with guns and so just bought them support systems.
Are there any good Iron hands successors other than Steel Confessors? If there aren't any good canon ones, are there any decent fan ones? My AdMech army is too busy working with my Necron army to make a Pariah counts-as Culexus for me to ally them with my Marines.
>>46745647
Sons of Medusa maybe?
>>46745647
Iron Lords, Red Talons
>>46745487
>>46745510
>>46745532
>>46745568
>>46745571
>>46745605
>>46745639
>>46745640
I apologize, In new to the miniatures hobby as I mainly spend my time with pe and paper rpgs. I'm making an Imperial Guard Kill team with Heralds of Ruin and I'm having a bit of trouble.
>>46745615
While your link is much appreciated (and rouses confusion as to why that link isn't in the OP), there's only a small handful of audiobooks there, and even then they are only horus heresy ones.
I'm going to keep looking around on the internet, surely there's a way to obtain a fat chunk of audiobooks.
Thanks for your post anyways bro, let me know if you find a link that has more audiobooks.
>>46745706
And I'm also sorry for my shitty typing on phones.
>>46745706
Write it up the same way you would a character sheet.
Mark down a unit and its base cost, then write the upgrades with their costs under it.
Then just go through slowly for each unit you're planning. Use a calculator to add up points as you go.
If you go over or you decide against something, just scratch it out. You can always just write a finalized list later.
It's really not the sort of thing you need a complicated computer program to add up for you, especially for Killteam where you have 20 pages of options anyway.
>>46745706
>I'm having a bit of trouble
write out the stats and special rules of your dudes in word or even on a piece of paper
Use that as a cheat sheet until you get the stuff down to memory, don't rely on a third party for the rules.
>>46745079
There are a number of possibilities. You'll have to decide whether you want to deep strike or just fly across the board at dudes. If the former, most of your shit can deep strike. Adding a Craftworld Allied Detachment for the Autarch (just use some Windriders for the troops) can help. Also, look at the rules for the Covenite Scalpel Squadron. You can use that to make sure something lands on the board first turn, if everything else is in reserves. An Archon with a WWP is expensive, but handy, especially in a Raider with Blasterborn.
To start with, I'd get some combination of the following
>An HQ (multiple possibilities here, you'll have to decide)
>Blasterborn in a Venom, or Raider if going with an Archon
>Warriors in Venoms
>Possibly a squad of Warriors in a Raider with Splinter Racks and a Splinter Cannon heavy weapons dude
>A Ravager
Then I'd add either Scourges with HWBs or Reavers with Cluster Caltrops and Heat Lances. Both are fairly flexible. That's just my advice though.
I don't like the Corpsethief Claw that the other anon mentioned, to be honest. 2slow4me. I've never actually used it though so maybe it's good. I just can't see it synergizing well unless you go full Covens.
>>46745754
>>46745759
The main problem I'm having is losing track of units. I'll move a unit and forget to write him down somewhere else, or lose an upgrade I've applied. Then I lose track of points and things don't add up.
>>46745706
No worries, man. The only real problem people have with programs/websites is that they can get rules/points wrong, and then people learn bad habits that are hard to get rid of.
For your first few armies, I'd say just do pen, paper, and calculator. Try to really learn the rules and your codex and get used to them.
>>46745785
Just take things slower. If you move a unit, mark it down when you move it. Focus on doing that instead of just telling yourself you'll remember.
Basically just be super autistic about it until you're familiar enough with the rules.
Any recommendations for a non-biker based Ork army?
I know Mek Gunz are pretty good, but it seems like footslogging Ork armies are hard to get right and you can't fit enough Sluggas in a Trukk to really be effective.
>>46745487
battlescribe
I have no space for paper, just remember pen and paper is better
>>46745706
IG is harder because they have far more options. Most people who memorized their codex points are likely marine players. If your army has lots of unit variation, lots of wargear, or weird ass points like units and wargear ending in numbers that aren't 5 or 0, it's going to take more effort to learn your codex points.
The best way is to simply build the army you want, but don't use Battle Scribe, use your actual codex. That's what it's there for.
The more you write out your army lists, the faster you will remember, oh Guardsmen cost 5 points, melta guns cost 10 points, or whatever.
You can use Battle Scribe if you really feel stuck, but if you rely 100% on it you will definitely stunt your growth for learning your army and end up like the retards who can't even post a list on /tg/ or build an army without a program or even re-arrange a program army printout into a readable format.
>>46745873
Meganobz in transports are decent, from what I've heard. Dakkajets are okay. Stormboys are fast and rather cheap, so they can do good work if you're careful.
Consider a new Renegade Knight as well, maybe?
>>46745816
B-But sempai, I'm not autistic enough.
>>46745605
Why wouldn't you just use the codex for that. Are you really going to imply you're not just going to use the army building program and just stop there? If you really wanted to learn, you'd be cracking open your rulebook or pirated PDF and not plugging shit into a program.
>>46745785
Organize your army into HQ, Elites, Troops, FA, HS. IG gets more complicated because their troops can turn into mini-armies.
>>46745487
army builder, then copy it down to p&p while saving the profile sheets
>>46745487
BattleScribe because it's 1000x easier than pen and paper. My only gripe is some codices load way faster than others. SW are slow as fuck.
>>46745912
This game really isn't for you, then. Maybe try Dawn of War.
Yeah, you can act all arrogant and say "lol whatever autist I can do what I want" but eventually you're going to screw yourself or your opponent out of a tournament prize because you had an illegal list. Army Builder has dozens and dozens of incorrect rules, points values, etc that I can remember people pointing out every time a new codex comes out.
>>46745937
>>46745900
Guys, he's playing Killteam.
>>46745956
>can't make a KT list without a program
Kind of sad to be honest, family. Shit is easier than the P&P RPGs he's used to playing.
>>46745912
It's just a matter of double-checking everything. Remember, it's just paper. You can start over if you mess up.
Just try your best to write a list, take a break, then go back over it point by point afterwards. Then take note of everything you messed up, and fix it.
>>46745955
I'm sorry if I've done something wrong, I'm just trying to enjoy the same games as you folks. I don't plan to play in tournaments, just with a large group of friends while waiting for other people to arrive during Pen and Paper sessions.
Again, I'm honestly not trying to be arrogant, and I'm not sure where you got that, I was just saying that I have a shit short term memory.
>>46745912
paper and pencil
literally impossible to fuck it up
>>46745571
>>46745640
BS is fine as long as it's used as a tool, not a second brain.
Same can be said of the generals though, why read or think when you can just drop a stupid question and later have the answer spoonfed to you.
>>46746014
>I'm just trying to enjoy the same games as you folks
>implying anyone on /tg/ enjoys anything
Now you fucked up.
>>46746014
Don't expect to memorize an entire codex in a day. Do you know how much a normal guardsman costs?
You do? Good. You see? Progress. Now just do the same for a special or heavy weapon.
On the other hand, if you don't even know how many points your most common basic unit costs, then you should see why Battle Scribe is so bad for you. You don't even know the first thing about your army.
>>46745900
This.
Fucking Aspect Warriors have more wonky wargear and unique special rules thsyn most armies.
Still wouldn't trade it for all the mindless Scatter and D in the world.
Would you allow your opponent to say a kitbashed model was the 30th Anniversary Model?
>>46746095
The issue arises with myltyiple armies, all with their own similar but still different weapons.
>>46746031
>>46745986
>>46746014
>>46745967
>>46745956
>>46745948
Fella here who is trying to make that Imperial Guard Kill team. I'm not saying I'm completely useless fellas, I've got most of it down. I've literally just jumped into Warhammer 40k a few days ago after having no knowledge of the game other than the Fantasy Flight Games RPGS.
Feel free to shit on my list so far however.
http://pastebin.com/Fh3PQp0B
If I wasn't able to take criticism and help I'd be dead by now.
>>46746106
Sure, as a marine with a rergular combi weapon.
I won't acknowlege the free ID gun on official or conversion models.
>>46746125
"I already learned one codex, so fuck learning anymore I'm just going to use Battle Scribe from now on" is a terrible idea.
It's like not learning a new language because you already know one, or not trying to better yourself at ANYTHING because you've already gotten this far.
Sure, you don't have to, and nobody can make you, but it's still a retarded decisions. It's yours to make.
>>46746106
I would, but I know a lot of people are so unreasonably pissed that they won't, and they won't even allow the official model to be used with the rules.
Hell, I'd allow people to use a generic marine as him as long as it's very obviously marked out, like a huge red stripe down the model or something like that. My only issue would be difficulty keeping track of him so I won't let people use the rules if they just point to a random identical marine and say that's the disintegrator guy.
>>46746164
>this whole conversation
>he ends up posting a pastebin link to his list
And people wonder why others sperg out and go full rage on /tg/ whenever someone posts a poorly formatted list, PDF, or link to a list.
>>46746166
>I won't acknowlege the free ID gun on official or conversion models.
>butthurt about 18" S5 AP2
Either a retard or someone who plays cheesy lists that can't be beaten except by ID so he's scared of a pathetic 18" S5.
>>46746207
I made it on paper, slowly copied it onto a Google Doc, and was going to link that, but I was afraid that people would be able to see my work email that the doc is attached to.
>>46746166
>I won't acknowlege the free ID gun on official
why?
>>46746227
Thing is, you don't need to copy down every single thing that a model has. We know they have a frag grenade or flak armor or their default guns or whatever.
The important things to mark down are the upgrades when building a list. Obviously it's good to know everything they have, but when you're just trying to get across the info it's good to be concise.
>>46746219
>>46746219
Yeah, those Tyranids love hanging out outside 18" and have no vulnerability to Instant death at all.
>But muh flyrants
And if I did take those, this won't help you against those anyway. I'd rather be able to take other Monstrous creatures without getting shit on even more thank you
>>46746264
Tyranids were already terrible even before this unit came out. Not refusing grav, Battle Company, War Convocation, etc but refusing the Imperial Space Marine is stupid and pointless.
>>46746014
/40kg/ is fucking autistic when it comes to Battlescribe. There is no real problem with it, but it is better if you are thoroughly familiar with your Codex so that you can notice whenever it gets something wrong (eg number of guys with X weapon in a squad or something).
Try making a spreadsheet, it's easier than paper since you can have it add everything in real time and you can cut and paste stuff. Or, if you do it on paper, make your list using tables that show upgrades, points, etc. clearly under each entry so it's easy to read. I don't have one on hand but I just did this in paint, so you get the idea.
>>46746252
That's probably a good idea, I just thought I'd write down everything so that when playing with friends they wouldn't think I was pulling shit out of my ass. I wanted to make my unit transparent.
>>46746264
>And if I did take those, this won't help you against those anyway.
Your problem is you think people are taking it to try to rape you somehow. Even if the gun didn't have ID people would want to take him just because it's fun and fluffy.
If the gun isn't a problem if you spam Flyrants, and you have Flyrant models, what's the problem then?
>>46746288
>lists every single reason why /tg/ acts autistic about BS
>even tells the guy not to rely on BS
>refuses to acknowledge why /tg/ acts autistic about BS
So my LGS has an ITC tournament coming up soon. How bad an idea is this for 1250? We've got a few Orks and chaos players, plus like three pure Marine players and one Wolves player.
+ 1250 Tanks +
+++ Armoured Might +++
++ Armoured Task Force: 765 ++
Predator: 140
- Twin-Linked Lascannon
- 2x Sponson lascannon
3 Vindicators: 365
- 1 Storm Bolter
3 Whirlwinds: 195
Techmarine: 65
++ Mechanized Infantry: 485 ++
5 Assault Terminators: 225
- Thunderhammers and Storm Shields
Land Raider Crusader: 250
- Warlord
- Multi-Melta
Mostly I'm worried about fast assault lists getting there faster than I can kill them, and the TH/SS terminators not being enough to slow them down, so I just watch my line disintegrate as soon as they impact.
>>46746294
If its fun and fluffy and just for fun they've bo objection to making it a 25 point upgrade for a vanguard vet or command squad.
Would I get flak if I kit bash 1K Son bits with regular marine kits? I have some spare parts left and wanted to make something.
>>46746288
>>46746252
Which reminds me, on the Heralds of Ruin Killteam list, it says a Heavy Weapons unit must take one item from the Heavy Weapons list. So I gotta take one, does that mean I can take multiple for an additional point cost, and if so, where does it say that?
>>46746305
>every single reason
No, I didn't mention "It looks like shit if you just copy paste it into a 4chan post."
>refuses to acknowledge
Not quite. It's still a useful tool if you want to try considering, for example, which allied detachment to bring with X list, or different variations on how your list could look if you add 300 points. It's simply easier to use than a spreadsheet or anything else. You still shouldn't rely on it, because your final list should be done by hand so you know you didn't fuck it up. But it does have its place.
Also /tg/ really, really goes overboard with the hate for it. It didn't rape and eat your children.
>>46746281
Right, but at least you actually have to pay points for Grav instead of it being yet another free thing. Not my fault Space Marines are Eldar levels of cheese now.
>>46746294
>If the gun isn't a problem if you spam Flyrants, and you have Flyrant models, what's the problem then?
Because I don't have flyrant models, and I don't have the ability to spam flyrants?
I have enough trouble getting my Trygons or Carnifexes into CC without basic infantry killing them in one shot.
>People would want to take him just because it's fun and fluffy.
Really? People want to take the 'fun and fluffy' upgrade of paying 0 points and not even buying the model, in order to get an extra combi weapon in an otherwise codex-compliant marine squad. A combi-weapon that doesn't behave in the same way as any other combi-weapons, which also aren't given to standard tactical marines anyway.
Yeah, that's so fluffy. Surely people aren't just after a free plasmagun with an upside.
>>46746346
>Not my fault Space Marines are Eldar levels of cheese now.
Hyperbole just makes you look even worse as a player.
>>46746346
>Because I don't have flyrant models, and I don't have the ability to spam flyrants?
So you don't have the ability to get good so others shouldn't be allowed to get good. Gotcha.
Ever try getting good? Skyblight literally shat out free units for days before anyone was allowed to have respawning squads or summoned units in 6E but you didn't see anyone refusing that formation, unlike your pathetic, autistic self. Sure wish the cancer would stop shitting up every thread with "hur dur Space Marines OP as Eldar".
>>46746366
And arguing that in addition to your assaulting from deep-strike, perfectly accurate turn 1 deep-strike, several hundred points of free units, undercosted anti-everything guns, unkillable characters, and endless supply of allies, that you want a free Instant Death plasma gun gives you the high-ground?
>>46746346
I was planning on buying the model and using it even before the rules were leaked. I also pay for useless shit like Extra Armour on my Rhinos because I have the FW parts for them and they look cool. You yourself play an obviously shitty, terrible Tyranid list, so why do you find it so hard to believe that Space Marine players would actively make fluffy, terrible shit decisions? It just so happens this decision turned out to not be so shitty.
>>46746394
And despite that, Space Marines STILL have less tops than Eldar in Adepticon.
>grav
>undercosted
Lol.
>endless supply of allies
>not being endemic to all Imperials
it's not a marine only thing moron.
>>46746384
>So you don't have the ability to get good so others shouldn't be allowed to get good
>C'mon anon, all you have to do is spend several hundred dollars on models you don't have
>That's as fair as me painting a Red stripe on one of my tactical marines for free upgrades right?
If you consider 'getting good' to be 'spam the most OP rules available to you at the time', then I'd rather stay bad.
>>46746346
>Trygons or Carnifexes into CC without basic infantry killing them
get good
>>46746384
>>46746399
>>46746412
>Space Marine players confirmed for Tau-levels of denial and faggotry
>Grav/Riptides are totally fair
>I just like the models I promise
>Why don't you just use some of your good units?
![16204457804_575d7bdbd9_k[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pYqbi3Q.jpg "16204457804_575d7bdbd9_k[1].jpg")
So who's ready for the influx of new Knights when the board game comes out ?
Imperial Knights, Renegade Knights, Knights belonging to Space Marine Chapters, Knights possessed by Daemons, looted Ork Knights !
>>46746457
My Necrons are ready for Ally of Convenience IKs through the CSM. Finally, a LoW worth a damn the 'crons can use!
>>46746449
I'll consider it when my basic infantry gets a free upgrade to fuck over your army.
>>46745873
Take 3 huge units and warlord with finkin'cap and aim for the Infiltrate to 3 units -trait. Add in kommandos and infiltrate everything within 18'' while mek gunz bombard from the backline.
>>46746334
Unless it says they can take more, then they can only take 1.
>>46746469
Is the Tomb Stalkeer that bad?
Hey there, one more question for WH40k HoR that I'm unable to find on the internet. Can I have both a Tempestor Prime and a Commissar?
>>46746505
I think Tomb stalkers are just 200 point MCs now. Not positive though
there is nothing wrong with using the anniversary space marine
>>46746505
Yes. It's also Heavy Support. It's basically a Carnifex, only in Necrons. Carnifexes are bad in Tyranids, much less a faction not built around them.
>>46746581
Yep. Just like how there's nothing wrong with using Wraithguard or Riptide wings.
>>46746537
Oh yeah.
Man that's sad, it set the standard other GCs follow now, but it itself really got shafted.
>>46746602
>riptide wing comparable to a single space marine
WHO COULD BE BEHIND THIS POST
What is the worst behavior you've ever seen in organized play, be a tournament or anything else?
>once I assaulted a unit and the opponent straight up refused to acknowledge my charge, then on his turn he shot at my unit (which was in base to base contact already) and charged
>>46746634
>>once I assaulted a unit and the opponent straight up refused to acknowledge my charge
should have refused to acknowledge he wasn't the loser right there desu
>>46746453
Marine players have always been worse. They just hide behind whatever flavor of the edition cancer to avoid any accusations
>yeah dude those star cannons and IW oblit spam are fucking Cheese! Never mind my 100p las/plas tacs, libbys spamming the line and rest of the army is just AssCannon spam!
>Fucking grey knight parking lot lists and IG leafblowers! *drop pods his whole army behind you* EMPERORS MERCY, HERETIC! *tips beakie helmet*
>OMG riptides, serpents and wraithknights OP, btw here's my friendly list of gravcenturion star, with Draigo and Tigurius, with minimum scouts of course.
>>46746628
>comparable
Certainly it isn't worth the same number of points. After all, one is free and one isn't.
But of course, if you don't have a problem with people using models that they paid for and have the rules of, then that should apply across the board?
I mean, it would just be hypocritical to complain about people taking units you think are unfair or undercosted while doing so yourself.
>>46746634
Well, what was the reason for the refusal? Why did you accept it?
>>46746634
wat
Just "Nope, I ignore this. Anyway now I'm shooting you, you can't ignore, *NO FAIL*"?
what a fag, should have packed up then and there and "accidentally" dropped his shit off the table :^)
>>46746602
>entire units of SD flamers with T6
>more balanced than a single tactical marine
u wot
>>46746651
So let me get this straight
If 1 (one) space marine has an end-all weapon in his hands, but he is still easily killable like the other marines, that means you should be able to field a wing of riptides because the space marine is free and the riptide aren't?
Explain
>>46746634
What? How do you go to his turn without him acknowledging your charge? Did he not take the models you killed off of the table?
In that case, then you just stand there until he does, or inform him that if he doesn't, you'll take them off yourself.
>>46746628
>TFW your Avatar got deleted by one.
Play Aspect Eldar they said, Wraithknights are cheesy use your other LoWs they said.
Balls to that.
>>46746634
>What is the worst behavior you've ever seen in organized play, be a tournament or anything else?
Once wound up against a couple of flufffags in a 2v2 tourney who would NOT shut up about the theatrics of every little shooting attack or combat. I was okay with it, until time was called halfway through round three and they won on objectives when, if they hadn't spent half the round time making shit up, we'd have scraped them off the objectives and won easily. I don't even think they did it on purpose, but having to listen to them talking about people diving in the way of bullets EVERY LoS ROLL and the fate of the poor guy who failed the dangerous terrain EVERY TIME they rolled a 1, then losing to their shit, has made me salty to this day.
>>46746679
Yes? That's how the rules of the game are written anon.
You can swap out one of your marines in a game for that guy for free. Your opponent can bring along a Riptide wing by actually paying points for it.
I find it strange that you have a problem with the rules when they aren't giving you free weapons.
>>46746699
Oh I know that's how the rules were written
I would just refuse to play against a Tau fag who thinks this way :^)
>>46746679
So let me get this straight
If 1 (one) riptide has an end-all weapon in his hands, but he is still easily killable like other riptides, that means you should be able to field a free space marine because the riptide costs points, but the space marine is free and the riptide aren't?
Explain
>>46746723
typical marine only player.
imperial space marine = riptide
new meme?
>>46746723
And that's why you're a hypocrite
>There's nothing wrong with using this undercosted model that some people think is too good and don't want to play against. You shouldn't refuse to play it
>But that model that I think is too good and I don't want to play against? Nothing wrong with refusing to play it
Do you have no self-awareness at all?
>>46746740
>haha you shouldn't use a unit in your codex! But I can use a free marine!11!!!
>>46745108
Is no fortifications for real? Even stronghold assault can't save us?
>>46746647
Never thought I'd see the day where someone would unironically claim third edition eldar had the high ground in anything.
>>46746740
Nobody ever said it was on par with a riptide. All that was said is that if there's nothing wrong with taking an Imperial Marine, then there's nothing wrong with taking a Riptide wing.
Which is fine if you believe that, but it's silly to try and argue that you refusing to play a Riptide wing is right, while people who refuse to play your Imperial marine are wrong.
>>46746653
>>46746680
he wasn't paying attention during my turn, and since he didn't see me charge he assumed I had just moved next to his unit and shouldn't have been allowed to attack
granted it was an pseudo-apocalyse game (if anyone remembers the "Hammer of the Emperor" event) with some twelve players per side so there was a lot going on, but come on
>>46746696
narrative gameplay can be fun, but a tournament is NOT the right place for it
I once played in a tournament as well were a guard player had an all infantry army and insisted on moving each model individually. He went first, and the game was over before I got my 3rd turn.
>>46746751
>i won't allow you to use that!!111
>if you do I'll use my storm surges and three riptides xD!111!!1!
Just kill yourself
>>46746781
And he didn't just take your word that you charged?
More importantly, if your guys were in base-to-base and he assumed you moved, he should have asked you move them back an inch, in which case it's still your movement phase and then you can charge anyway.
>>46746753
If you don't have a Fortification slot, you can't put a Fortification in the list without it being Unbound. Them's the breaks. A CAD of a Librarian (Geokinesis, of course) and 2x5 scouts along your normal list still works, though.
>>46746751
The imperial marine is so fucking useless I couldn't give less of a shit if someone refused to allow me to use it. It would be more an annoyance and disgust at the opponent on principle rather than the loss of advantage of a piddly 18" S5 piece of shit.
That thing doesn't help me AT ALL. If I need ot kill a WK or Riptide, I'm busting out my unpainted grav guns glued to the DV bikers and my unpainted Centurions, not a single 18" retard marine.
>>46746759
he's right though. Marine players are typically worse. Usually because they are on their first army. Probably are all gung-ho on their 'my dudes' chapter or
>>46746786
You're a retard. If some fag wants to use the free marine in a tourney, then they deserve to lose. You sound like a beta bitch.
>>46746786
>It's completely fair for me to get a free Instant Death plasma gun. Anyone who complains just needs to get good
>W-what? Three riptides? No fair! I don't want to play that. You're just using OP undercosted models
Marine players continue to prove themselves faggots.
>>46746679
>end-all weapon
>18" S5
Lol. If you're within 18" of some dude on foot, you're well within range of the real anal rape a cheesy Space Marine player can bring.
Protip: the new psychic rape powers are 48" range, due to 24" casting range and 24" target range from enemy.
>>46746781
>he wasn't paying attention during my turn, and since he didn't see me charge he assumed I had just moved next to his unit and shouldn't have been allowed to attack
You didn't tell him you were attacking his unit? You just rolled, moved models, then told him when you were ready to start rolling hits?
What happened to his overwatch? Why didn't you just move your models back and redo the charge?
I'm on your side here, but this situation just keeps sounding stranger.
>>46746803
Must be nice to get to play S+ codex.
>>46746730
>thinks the imperial space marine is equal to a Riptide
>typical marine only player
Sorry Taufag, marines still aren't cheesy enough to be as faggoty as you and Eldar.
Maybe with the psychic powers they will be. But hey, Tau are able to compete even without any access to invisibliity, so that says a lot.
>>46746759
He's right though. Marine fags are usually marine only players. Generally are all gungho about their dudes and tryhard constantly. If they win, it's due to their extremely good tactics, but if they lose then they got cheesed.
>>46746829
They're unpainted for a reason, you dumb no reading comprehension having faggot. My normal build is so crappy the imperial space marine isn't going to do shit either because it's on foot.
The difference is I'm not a whiny faggot like you and do something about it. I enjoy my main army and the hobby, and when I absolutely have to win a game, I fucking went and bought a second build that could win.
>>46746831
Not a taufag, but you marine players are the worst of the bunch. Unlike you I have more than 1 or 2 armies.
>>46746647
I actually played in 5E and 6E, so that's how I know you're full of shit. Seriously, anyone who knows the rules for drop pods knows you're exaggerating by 100% since you only drop HALF your pods rounded up first turn.
>tips counts-as Vulkan He'stan's 5E helmet
>>46746831
Not that anon, but the fact that they took a Dark Eldar vehicle gun (disintegrator cannon), slapped Instant Death to it, then gave it to a infantry model - for FREE - is all kinds of jacked. Especially since I play Dark Eldar.
I won't refuse to play against someone who runs it, but I will silently just them.
>>46746827
>What happened to his overwatch? Why didn't you just move your models back and redo the charge?
this was waaaay back. There was no overwatch then and charge was always 6". If memory serves it was 4e then.
Outside of World Engine since I'm already ordering that, what are some good Necron books/stories to read?
>>46746831
This whole thing started because someone said there wasn't anything wrong with taking an Imperial Space Marine, but then raised a big stink when someone else said there wasn't anything wrong with taking Tau & Eldar stuff.
If you want to play with it that's fine, but trying to pretend that you can reserve the right to complain about Tau and Eldar while saying that worse armies can't complain about your bullshit just reeks of faggotry.
>>46746318
Here's my other thought, by the way.
+ 1250 Bodies +
+++ Fist of Medusa Strike Force +++
++ Battle Company: 945 ++
5 Assault Marines: 145
- Drop Pod
- Vet Sarge
-- 2 Lightning Claws
Captain: 180
- Artificer Armour
- Relic Blade
- Gorgon's Chain
5 Devastators: 150
- 4 Lascannons
10 Tactical marines: 195
- Drop Pod
- Combi-Melta
- Meltagun
10 Tactical Marines: 200
- Rhino
- Combi-Plasma
- Plasmagun
5 Tactical Marines: 130
- Razorback
- Flamer
- Combi-Flamer
++ Suppression Force: 250 ++
Land Speeder: 55
- Multi-Melta
3 Whirlwinds: 65
I like this one better for objective play, but I feel like the other one has a serious chance of tabling opponents for an insta-win.
>>46746812
>if I can't use riptides against a person using an imperial space marine, he's a faggot
You can literally use weapons against the space marine that have longer range than the insant death gun you fucking retard
You are literally trying to say that a person using a single model is deserving of playing against riptides, when the single model can be raped by any other regular Tau model
You're the faggot here, Taufag
>>46746852
Doesn't matter what you play, you think 18" S5 AP2 Gets Hot Rapid Fire Instant Death is the same as a Riptide, and you think T4 W1 3+ is "as easily killable" as a Riptide.
YOU LITERALLY THINK A SINGLE MARINE ARE AS EASILY KILLABLE AS A RIPTIDE, FUCKING TAKING THAT SHIT STRAIGHT FROM YOUR POST
>>46746803
>Give me more free shit GW. It won't really help me win, trust me!!!!!!!
Why else would you use a free unit, other than to win and generally be a dick to your opponent???
>>46746872
And don't try to flip this saying Riptides can be easily killed too you fucking faggot
>>46746864
But DE is a bad army, so why are you complaining that they're giving bad guns from bad armies to things?
You realize storm bolters and heavy bolters are imperial vehicle guns right?
>>46746838
>>46746852
>Marine fags are usually marine only players
fun fact; if we're going by the numbers, the marine playerbase have more multi-army players than literally every other faction combined
keep memeing though, I'm sure it'll teach those marine fags how not mad you are.
>>46746850
>They're unpainted for a reason
So you can tailor chapter tacs before every fight, or in-fight if the opponent isn't paying attention?
>>46746850
>hurr durr I play like a complete retard with some arbitrary limitations and principles
>this means that the faction I play isn't miles above the rest.
>>46746877
So if taufags got a special crisis suit that came free and was better than your single marine you would be okay with that? Or how about if chaos got a free 3 man termi squad? Shit doesn't have limits on free. Also type in caps more, you beta madfag.
>>46746872
>He thinks I play Tau
>He thinks this is about a 1v1 match, instead of the overall principle
I never said they deserved to play against Riptides, or that the Riptides were somehow equal.
All of this has been about how it's somehow not wrong to take an Imperial Marine, while at the same time marine players see something very wrong about someone taking something they don't like.
They're just too blind to see their hypocrisy in this.
>>46746867
I found the sew on patch the GW gave out during the event
Spring 2003, holy shit that was a long time ago
>>46746869
Then maybe stop flailing around about how some shitty 18" MEQ is a problem and start calling out the hypocrite instead? Seriously, read the posts of the people from your side/that you're indirectly defending. Not 6 hours ago you fucking dipshits were trying to claim Space Marines were as good as Eldar just because of Battle Company, Skyhammer, "underpriced" grav, and the imperial marine.
>>46746893
Did they top the poll for most played then?
>>46746893
Yeah I know. I have marines as well as other armies. It's why you don't see me sperging over people not wanting me to use the free marine. Fucking tard.
>>46746896
>tailor chapter tactics
>implying it isn't going to be White Scars every game
Come on now.
>>46746897
>hurr durr I play like a complete retard with some arbitrary limitations and principles
Like refusing to let people use a single tactical marine with an 18" gun?
>>46746892
Yet storm bolters and Hbolters can be taken by infantry. Also, they didn't give Sbolters or Hbolters Instant Death for no reason, then give them to a unit for free.
>Disintegrator Pistol - has Instant Death
>Disintegrator Rifle - has Instant Death
>Disintegrator Cannon - doesn't have Instant Death
>>46746912
are you talking about some completely irrelevant /tg/ strawpoll, or what
>>46746877
>you think T4 W1 3+ is "as easily killable" as a Riptide
Fun fact. You're the only one who said 'as easily killable'.
Who are you quoting? Nobody has tried to say that. Just that if you might not want to play against Riptides, then it's fair that other people might not want to play against Imperial Marines.
>>46746924
With a IF librarus conclave.
>>46746907
So something that happened 6 hours ago somehow has merit on this conversation? Do you spend every waking moment of your life on here? The fact is that some retard thinks it's okay to use the Free Marine, but not okay for people to use actual units in their codexes.
>>46746902
People are already not okay with Tau, what's your point?
Just use your own analogy and figure it out. You either refuse to play Tau nowadays or you don't. An extra free upgrade won't matter. By the way, Crisis Suits aren't equal to Tactical Marines, try again retard. They're much better due to double wounds and jetpacks.
This is more like giving a Fire Warrior a +1S +1AP 18" gun. OH WAIT THEY HAVE WHOLE SQUADS OF THOSE CALLED BREACHERS AND THEY'RE CRAP.
>>46746924
>Like refusing to let people use a single tactical marine with an 18" gun?
More like saying that people can't refuse to play your single tactical marine with an Instant Death relic, while turning around and condemning Tau players and saying you don't want to play them.
>>46746936
Why IF? The only reason I can think of is their Sorcery Familiar-equivalent, and that's 25 damn points and a one-of.
>>46746933
Do you have the official totally legit list of every player ever?
Or do you just assume every kid that buys a 5 marine test box goes on to field a full army?
>>46746861
I know you are space marine player, because the post you are answering to never said it was whole army on 1st turn.
>>46746943
How about you start opening your cock-hole eyes and pay attention to the posts HAPPENING RIGHT NOW like I told you to. The fact that you're so hypocritical and retarded you don't realize you're just as retarded as the people you're criticizing for considering "actual units in their codexes" any better than the imperial space marine. This isn't 5E. "Actual codex" doesn't matter in the age of dataslates and supplements. Tons of marine shit isn't even "in the codex" right now.
I kind of want to start a Tau army, but Tau feel like they don't really work unless you dive deep into the cancer
>no special or heavy weapons on fire warriors
>devilfish is expensive, and a very very old kit
>drones are ok maybe? can missile drones with the drone formation bonus get the job done?
>>46746964
>*drop pods his whole army behind you*
>whole army
>>46746946
>You either lose to tau or you don't play them
Are you a retard? I play against tau all the time and win. Just because marine fags are mad that tau have better shooting doesn't mean they can't be beaten. Also why shouldn't they get a free suit? It's only a slightly better marine after all? Type in caps more again too, really helps you seem mad.
>>46746970
maybe you should pay attention to the posts. You obviously support using a free marine, which is wrong in and off itself.
>>46746986
>beats Tau all the time
>whines about imperial space marine
Not buying it.
>>46746986
>maybe you should pay attention to the posts. You obviously support using a free marine, which is wrong in and off itself.
Marines already get free transports army wide. Mechanicus gets free wargear army wide, whereas this is on only one marine. And you still have to pay for the "free marine" you're buying moron.
>>46746985
>error 404: no "whole army on 1st turn" found
>>46746976
Explain what you mean by > they don't really work unless you dive deep into the cancer.
>>46746976
>Tau feel like they don't really work unless
LITERALLY ANY TAU LIST IS GOOD
>No special weapons on fire warriors
Their basic infantry guns are great, and you can get missiles now.
>Devilfish is expensive
Subtract 24 points for the drones and it's 56. Front armor 12 and being a skimmer makes it a very durable transport
Missile drones can't be taken on anything except broadsides, but that doesn't matter.
Take LITERALLY ANYTHING you want. You'll be fine, possibly even overpowered.
The only way you could possibly make a bad Tau list is if you picked completely at random and just ended up mostly with Breachers and Vespid
Except I did that, posted it here, and /tg/ still said it was a solid list.
YOU CAN'T MAKE TAU NOT WORK
>marines should be able to use free marine
what if tau got a free suit?
>NO THAT"S NOT THE SAME!!!
>>46746993
>not buying it
good argument
>>46746986
>why shouldn't they get a free suit?
no one cares enough to throw an anniversary celebration for one of the ugliest models in the tau range
>>46747000
>YOU CAN'T MAKE TAU NOT WORK
Kroots and vespids.
Are all Tau players this retarded?
>>46746976
Don't listen to the mad marine fag >>46747000
who's shooting list is worse than tau's. Just go to 1d4chan and look up the tactics for tau units in 7th. Make up your own mind and look at strong lists online.
>>46747000
>LITERALLY ANY TAU LIST IS GOOD
Really? Because I've been considering a mechanized Breacher-based list, painted and fluffed as a pseudo-police force designed for putting down riots that just got caught up in all the bullshit of the universe. There'd be exactly one Crisis squad, which is the commander and his boys. Paint the Devilfish up like squad cars and make sure there's tiny badges for my Shas'ui.
>>46746997
the way their units work really lend themselves using all other units to markerlight for crisis/riptide/ghostkeels
if I want mechanized infantry, for example, my options are suddenly very limited.
>>46747000
I know on a cognitive level this is true, but I play CSM and have been conditioned very hard that lists can just fail, and you will lose every game
>>46747017
agreed they look ugly. But nothing you said detracts from anything I said. I don't play tau so idgaf.
30th Anniversary for makin' space marines!
Let's celebrate and give our customers a fun throwback retro collectible
What the heck, let's make some rules to go with it so people can tack it on for a game this week - happy 30, you guys!
>>FUCKING SPACE MARINES ALWAYS GETTING SHIT, OVERPOWERED BULLSHIT OP ZERO POINT GW SHITTING ON NON-MARINES FOREVER
>>FUCK YOU I BOUGHT FORTY OF THESE AND I'M ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED IN THE RULES TO USE THEM IN MY LISTS FOREVER. IT'S NO WORSE THAN DEATHTIDEWINGSTARS.
>>46746993
And Tau still have to pay for their Riptides.
Again, it's fine if you don't find anything wrong with using the Imperial Marine. It's in the rules of the game. GW has decided that's how strong it should be, and there's nothing to forbid people from taking that.
What isn't fine is when you try to argue that there is something wrong with using Riptides, or that it's 'different' because your undercosted unit isn't as bad.
They're both in the rules, and if there's nothing wrong with taking one, then there's nothing wrong with taking the other.
Is this a real fucking quote? Because if so, Corax is a fucking hypocrite for exiling the Terran legionnaires for being too cruel.
>>46747018
Kroot are actually good and Vespids are only bad in the context of Tau units. Compared to other bad units in the game Vespid are pretty amazing.
The real way to fail with Tau is to bring a bunch of naked crisis suits and no markerlights and whack everything to death, or that one guy who wanted an all Ethereal army.
>>46747043
real talk. this man is right.
>>46747041
>FORTY
But it's one per army, even in Unbound!
>>46747018
>Cheap infiltrating snipers that are decent in CC
>Jump units with initiative 6 and AP 3 guns for only a few points more than assault marines.
The only way that's bad is if you take nothing but them. The same way you'd get a 'bad' Eldar list if you took nothing but Rangers and Swooping hawks.
>>46747043
Too bad Riptides are so underpriced. The more you keep trying to compare this thing to Riptides, the less of an argument you have.
This single free marine is nowhere near as bad as the tons of free shit other armies and even marines get elsewhere, so why are you dwelling on it so much? It doesn't help your argument. It's not even strong.
give one good reason space marine players shouldn't be able to field the imperial space marine
give one good reason tau players shouldn't be able to field riptides
give one good reason the space marine can't be fielded unless the tau player fields his riptides
give one good reason the riptide can't be fielded unless the space marine player fields his imperial space marine
>>46747038
that's literally why they don't get an innocuous little free model, though
>>46747041
They also gave out awesome prints. Autists getting mad about dumb shit makes it even better.
The only bad thing is the scalping. Fuck scalpers.
>>46747043
>What isn't fine is when you try to argue that there is something wrong with using Riptides, or that it's 'different' because your undercosted unit isn't as bad.
This isn't me and hasn't been me for the past 5 or however many posts you've been shitting out, moron.
The point is, this one marine you faglords are sperging over isn't nearly as bad as the reason everyone shits on Tau. So sorry, no, one imperial space marine isn't equivalent to 2 stormsurges and a riptide wing. Sorry to burst your bubble, TIDF.
>>46747027
I play Tau. I'm speaking from experience. I have nothing but Fire warriors, kroot, pathfinders, and stealth suits.
>>46747032
That would work fine. Use devilfish to drive breachers in close to blast apart enemies. Crisis Commander and his squad provide mobile fire support.
Might not win every game, but it'll be solid if you play it smart.
I suggest also taking Drone squadrons in fast attack, both as additional firepower and for markerlights. Fluff them as security drones.
>>46747085
>give one good reason space marine players shouldn't be able to field the imperial space marine
They don't have the model and are already running a full cheese army.
>give one good reason tau players shouldn't be able to field riptides
99% of casual players can't beat them.
>give one good reason the space marine can't be fielded unless the tau player fields his riptides
The space marine already has an overpowering list that will easily beat his opponent. But the imperial marine won't make much difference anyway.
>give one good reason the riptide can't be fielded unless the space marine player fields his imperial space marine
If the opponent can't beat riptide spam because his army or codex is too weak. Even if someone includes the imperial space marine, he won't automatically beat 3 riptides. He may not even beat one. He may not even get in range to shoot at all.
Comparing Tau to the imperial space marine is stupid. It's not even the most OP thing in the marine dex. Comparing to battle company, centstars, and grav bikers is better.
>>46746976
Tau is combined arms army. Fire warriors are there to take out anything that s5 ap5 is sufficient. And that encompasses quite wide range of targets from basic infantry to light transports and heavy infantry. The weight of fire and force multiplication is key here and tau have good tools for that. And fire warriors can take turret autocannon now.
Devilfish is good per se as a transport. The problem is that it doesn't have anything good to transport. Strikers want to chill in back lines and breachers are outperformed by other units doing similiar job better (and without doubling the unit cost with transport). In 6th edition they were nice to keep your troops alive with 3+ jink saves while your battlesuits and tanks blasted at the enemy. That was when only troops could capture objectives and many games against tau could be forced to draw if all tau troops were dead.
Drones are great. Especially free vehicle drones. No one wants to waste shooting on 2-6 drones but those little discs can do all kinds of shit if they are ignored. Jet pack helps with carbine range and you can deny movements/charges with them, bolster supporting fire, go for those lucky pinnings and kills, enable combined fire power with 3 units bonus on Hunter contingent. Back in the 4th edition I usually took 5-8 strong deep striking gun drone unit just to hunt leman russes rear armor. It was hilarious when it worked and it was comically disastrous for the discs when it didn't
Are Vespids decent or good assault units?
>>46747037
>I know on a cognitive level this is true, but I play CSM and have been conditioned very hard that lists can just fail, and you will lose every game
Tau don't have the same issues as CSM. Tau units aren't overcosted, and they can all fill a role in an army.
>>46747098
>I play Tau. I'm speaking from experience. I have nothing but Fire warriors, kroot, pathfinders, and stealth suits.
So what, faggot? I play marines, and I have no transports or grav or flyers or allies or fortifications or bikes or psykers or centurions or any cheesy or even any GOOD unit but you fucking morons still make stupid posts about how my "personal restrictions" are irrelevant. Literally my best unit is a terminator chapter master, an artificer captain, and a bunch of non TH/SS terminators. So fuck off.
>>46747086
Aw man, I wanted to go and see what they meant by additional swag. I love prints. Wish I had Saturday off.
>>46747086
>the anniversary model looks good
unless you're a nostalgia fag then no. If you think it looks good you have bad taste.
>>46747145
Someone who can't even double space or capitalize shouldn't be talking about taste. I bet you think Mk III is the best armor.
>>46746976
>devilfish is expensive
Look at it again. AV12 skimmer with a decent gun, three entry points, decent capacity and an extra unit of drones OR smart missiles.
You get what you pay for. The issue is most of the time you could just take more suits instead.
>>46747128
They're cool prints. Little smaller than an A4, but high quality. Might take a photo of them when it's not 5AM.
My shop had a ton of them in a bag when I went on saturday, so it could be worth calling yours to see if they have any left over.
>>46747080
>Too bad Riptides are so underpriced
I would consider 'free' to be pretty underpriced. I've seen it said that the Riptide should be 30 more points, and I've seen it said this Imperial Marine should be 30 more points.
The entire argument is that Marine players don't see anything wrong with the Imperial Marine at all. All they say in it's defense is that it's fair and that if you have a problem with it, then you're just bad, while simultaneously complaining about units they don't like.
If an Eldar player argued that there wasn't anything wrong with Wraithguard, and that 12" guns couldn't hurt anything, I doubt you'd accept that.
>>46747123
I don't even know what you're talking about man. Did you get me confused with someone else?
>>46747116
With assault guns, HoW and hit&run with I6 they are ok harassment unit on weak backline units. Anything more serious will rip&tear the space wasps. Also the whole unit is held together by the squad leader, once it's gone, say hello for ld6.
>>46747159
It just doesn't look good anon. Sorry you are butthurt.
>>46747159
ill hook u in the gabber m8 swear on me empra
>>46747170
>I would consider 'free' to be pretty underpriced
That's not how math works. If something should cost 25 points, for example, but costs 0, you're underpriced by 25. The Riptide is underpriced by far more than that. He's also not free because you paid 14 points for the marine he's replacing. He's also one per army, not detachment, so you can only ever gain that small "free" points bonus once. The Riptide's huge point savings is additive for every additional Riptide you take.
Sorry, but if your logic is this terrible, just stop trying to make arguments.
>>46747192
You better hope you krump better than you type!
>>46747196
Not him, but his logic makes sense. Yours on the other hand....
>>46747192
those guys look like Mk2 tho
Mk2 is cool
>>46747208
>a single marine model that gained a single free upgrade is more underpriced than multiple WKs and Riptides that cost hundreds of points less than they should
Literally 100 > 1, learn to math moron.
>>46747168
Devilfish (after deducting the drones) is a floating chimera with better side armor, worse guns and no firing points. And they are roughly in the same point cost bracket too.
>>46747219
Should you not take grav cents because they are underpriced? How about grav bikes? I swear you are the most hypocritical person on this board. You think marines are middle ground and every races units should be priced around them. Terrible.
>>46747170
>>46747208
Sorry morons, but if all that OP shit was 18" T4 W1, then yeah, there'd be no problem with it.
Nobody would care if Tau got one free Riptide at T4 W1 3+ 18" S5 or one free Wraithguard at T4 W1 3+ 18" S5.
So no, his logic is fucking retarded. Literally just let Eldar or Tau replace a 14 point model with the Imperial Space Marine. Nobody would give a shit because their power level would jump from 9000 to 9001. Boo fucking hoo they'd still be OP as shit either way.
Either the marine who's taking this shit has a non cheesy army in which case a free crap plasma with ID won't matter, or he's playing a maximum cheese army in which case that one imperial marine is irrelevant because the rest of his army is full of shit to begin with.
>>46747219
Whoever said it was more underpriced? Whoever said it mattered how underpriced it was?
It's not a matter of numbers or balance, it's principle.
You're saying that your underpriced unit is fine, but these underpriced units aren't, because reasons.
You're saying people that don't want to play your underpriced unit are bad, but in the case of those underpriced units they're just OP.
Can you not see what you're doing at all?
>>46747240
>grav cents
>underpriced
Oh god, you ARE the moron who claimed grav was underpriced, AND you tried to deny it by saying "someone else 6 hours ago" wasn't relevant.
Do you know JUST HOW EXPENSIVE Grav Centurions are? Three of them are MORE THAN A RIPTIDE. BY A LARGE MARGIN.
Gravcents don't even do well against Tau or Eldar without psychic support, which costs even more points.
>>46747236
Being a skimmer and having three exits to the chim's one is relevant, though. It's a worse pillbox, but significantly better as a transport.
>>46747240
>You think marines are middle ground and every races units should be priced around them. Terrible.
Are you serious right now? MEQ is the basis of the game and SHOULD be the middle. Right now all xenos are priced to be CHEAPER and BETTER than MEQ. That's why the game is having Tau and Eldar problems, just like you're having brain problems.
Marine underpricing doesn't come from GRAV CENTURIONS you moron it comes from OP psychic abilities and retarded formations and free transports.
>>46747243
I'd put the Imperial Marine in a similar place to Wraithguard actually.
Short range gun, good at killing durable models, undercosted.
The main difference is that I've seen Eldar players actually admit that Wraithguard are too strong and opt against using them, wheras Marine players are more than happy to insist that everything is fine while picking a random tactical marine to get the benefits of this new gun.
>>46747212
Oh shit, you might actually be right - what have I been doing with my life?!
I like MKIIs cylon helmets a lot, but MKIII is still my power armor waifu.
>>46747248
>Whoever said it was more underpriced? Whoever said it mattered how underpriced it was?
Literally follow the quote chain. I suspect it was YOU YOUR FUCKING SELF who said it.
>You're saying that your underpriced unit is fine, but these underpriced units aren't, because reasons.
>You
Yeah still not me. Don't be surprised multiple people are calling you out on your retardation. Maybe if you stop assuming everyone is the same person or that you're always right, you won't have such shitty arguments and confusion all the time.
>>46745640
And it's wrong about so many things. All of the marine decurions are fucked at the moment, for example.
>>46747253
I'm not, but nice claims. The fact of the matter is the only reason you'd take the free imperial marine is for an advantage over the opponent. Not fluff, not army style. And here you are complaining that other players try to get advantages out of their codex. I'm not saying don't use the marine, I'm saying, let people use what they want. If you don't want to play them then fine, if they don't want to play you for using the marine, then fine.
>>46747269
>a single S5 ID marine is the same as a squad of strength D template wraiths
Nigger you what. This is more like marines getting one free shitty version of the wraithguard and people sperging out when ACTUAL wraithguards still exist.
>>46747253
Not >>46747240
I'm the guy who said Grav was underpriced.
Which it is. 35 points for a Grav cannon is a steal. They out-compete literally every other heavy weapon marines have. Even heavy bolters against hordes.
If you don't think that Grav isn't incredibly cheap for what you get, then you have no awareness.
Why do you think everyone is spamming Grav if it isn't incredibly cost effective?
>>46747262
True, though command squads and veterans are better units to transport than fire warriors.
I think if they swapped devilfishes and chimeras between tau&IG it would be a win-win.
>>46747071
You mean banshees, hawks murder tanks.
>>46747266
Are you dumb? Marines are like in the top 3 or 4 armies. They are currently overpowered if anything. Are you saying you want to nerf them so they be middle ground? That's fine by me.
>>46747291
>I'm not, but nice claims
Says the guy who's been claiming I'm someone else this whole thread. Fucking rich. Just stop posting you massive hypocritical cunt.
>>46747291
>The fact of the matter is the only reason you'd take the free imperial marine is for an advantage over the opponent. Not fluff, not army style.
Haha, too bad you fucking retard, I already inb4'd this long ago >>46746399
I don't even care if I'm not allowed by the store to take the rules or if the rules never came out. I'm arguing with you because you're just a HUGE FUCKING FAGGOT who is constantly wrong.
>>46747292
Yep. It's like Marines getting a free wraithguard, and insisting that it's fine while turning their nose up at actual wraithguard.
Because suddenly when the Wraithguard is free and on your side, it's cool.
>>46747299
>Why do you think everyone is spamming Grav if it isn't incredibly cost effective?
Because it's the only thing that will crack Tau MCs and stack HP on Knights.
Why do you think Battle Company is more popular than centstar? It's because the expensive grav guns can be put on cheaper units. Devastator Centurions are overpriced as hell. There's a reason nobody takes them for LCs and MLs, and it's not because grav is better, because LCs and MLs are still taken elsewhere.
>>46747311
>I'm not this other guy you've been talking to
>But you're only one person, for sure
It's an anonymous message board man. Caring this much about who said what isn't good for your health.
>>46747311
I haven't claimed anything? I'm obviously not the same guy youve been talking to this entire thread. You obviously have no friends from the way you're typing like an angry gypsy. Probably american.
>>46747309
Vanilla marines are.
MEQ doesn't mean just vanilla marines. None of the things that make marines a top army is MEQ. They're all non-MEQ units and formations.
Guess what every other top army in the game is? Non-marine armies that are way more undercosted and overpowered than marines. Necrons, Tau, Eldar, Knights, Daemons, all have better points value and firepower. That's why marines have to spam grav and free transports to compete. You ever see a "normal" marine CAD be a top list? Yeah, didn't think so.
>>46746797
I GUESS I'll throw bastions full of heavy bolters at people for scout taxes. I GUESS.
>>46747302
Tau just need infantry options. The Cadre Knifeholder and Breachers were an itty bitty step in the right direction, but they need more variety that isn't just progressively stupider looking suits.
Special weapon teams would be pretty neat.
>>46747313
Actual wraithguard ARE worse than a single toned down free wraithguard.
This is just as stupid as your crappy Riptide analogy. You can't honestly be this stupid.
>>46747335
>Probably american
Daily reminder that moot was right about EU and AU shitposters.
>>46747336
The point is that there's no reason to take the free marine other than tryharding. And if tryharding is fine, then anything should go. People like you complain about other armies tryharding but take your armies best stuff all the same.
>>46747335
>Probably american
Was this the underlying problem with the imperial space marine mini? To get non-americans to somehow try and shitpost about americans when nationality was never even mentioned ever?
Christ, GW
captcha: CEDAR STOP
>>46747322
>Because it's the only thing that will crack Tau MCs and stack HP on Knights.
And they do this so well because they're undercosted, yes.
>Devastator Centurions are overpriced as hell.
That's nice. I never said Centurions were the thing that was undercosted though.
>It's not because grav is better, because LCs and MLs are still taken elsewhere.
Grav IS better, but its downside is range. Lascannons and missiles aren't going to do as much damage as a Grav weapon, but have a large range advantage.
>>46747345
>Actual wraithguard ARE worse than a single toned down free wraithguard.
So we agree then, people are well within their rights to not want to play against the Imperial Marine, and anyone suggesting otherwise is a hypocrite?
>>46747375
Well he called me a hypoctical retard, claims I'm someone I'm not. Calls me a massive faggot etc etc. And I call him a ranting looney from the US, which he admits he is from. Lol.
>>46747377
Army with easy access to bikes, deep strikes with both drop pods&Gate of infinity and free transports rarely have problems with range.
>>46747390
>he called me a hypoctical retard
He would be right
>claims I'm someone I'm not
Be a tripfag if you get your feelings hurt over mistaken identity.
Oh wait, I forgot. Hypocrite. Everyone has to know when you're posting, but there can only be one person who disagrees with you?
>Calls me a massive faggot
You aren't doing much to dissuade that notion.
