ITT: Things that instantly turn you off a new system
>Hit Points are plot armor, not always actual injury
>abstract wealth
>non-standard dice
>>46743586
>rename hit points luck points
>???
>>46743586
>d20
If I see that I stop reading.
![[autism intensifies].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9e9qobj.jpg "[autism intensifies].jpg")
>>46743586
>absolutely flagrant balance issues
Fucking Mutants and Masterminds 3E. I understand that every game is going to have some problems, but for about 12 points (enough for even a power level 1 game, which is supposed to be people only somewhat better than average joes) you can make your character capable of time traveling to any point in existence instantaneously and give it an automatically programmed trigger such as "I take damage, I automatically time travel back to before I took damage, rinse and repeat". Utility powers in that game just have to be the stupidest shit I've come across in ttrpgs. It isn't some small fringe game either, how did this fucking happen? You have to specifically try to NOT break the game or else it will just shatter like glass.I tried to run this game over half a year ago, I'm still fucking mad.
>>46745289
Yes?
>>46743586
What do you consider non-standard dice?
>>46743586
Alot of these are gonna sound like "HURRDURR, DND/PATHFINDER SUCKS", but they're common in systems besides those as well.
>The amount of skill points your character gets is based on their "class", regardless of what their actual intelligence or backstory is.
>Spells per day (just give us mana-points or something, please, it's 100 times simpler)
>Settings based on books/movies (especially if I'm not already part of the fandom)
>The system is anime-influenced in any way
>1 is always a crit-fail, regardless of skill ranks
>The existence of gods is confirmed (this invalidates so many potential plot arcs about faith and the nature of higher powers)
>Death is reversible, often times very easily, with money being the main factor.
I could probably make this list go on forever, but those are the big ones that pop into mind.
>skill checks for things not of indeterminate success
>superfluous rolling
>basic mechanics left to hand-waving
>gimmick mechanics
How would you feel about a game that split hp between a core and extended? It would all be hp with extended being the get your breath knocked out bullet grazing damage, and core being the life threatening you've been shot in the chest and are now bleeding damage?
>>46745289
>Fucking Mutants and Masterminds 3E
You sir are stupid. GM veto is a necessary part (as explained in the manual) of the game when character design is done.
In fact as GM veto is really the only thing that matters we removed power point limitations altogether and just have a 'narrative power' system where you can pick areas to be great, good, medium and poor in.
>>46745771
Seems like you wouldn't even need the system then honestly.
>>46745722
Even in D&D 1s aren't an autofail on skill checks.
>>46743586
>No way to encourage roleplay besides fiat
>Systems where players establish tier lists
>100 different races of furries and edgelords
>anal circumference
>>46745722
>>The existence of gods is confirmed (this invalidates so many potential plot arcs about faith and the nature of higher powers)
What. This is a case by case thing. With a classical mythology gods are very proactive and have a real prescense. Settings based on those will be similar. I mean most religions have their gods doing things in their tales and that's great for fantasy and opens up its own type of plots.
You have to sacrifice one or the other for a different style, stories, and themes. I can get having a preference for one of these but to actively just shut one of them out entirely always is kind of weird.
>>46746018
Classic Mythology stories are still just STORIES.
My issues with the gods being provably real is that you start to feel really insignificant as a player when you're basically getting all your quests from some uber-being who could probably get it done in 0.10 seconds flat but can't be bothered. Plus those campaigns always tend to end with the players becoming gods themselves... and then it just feels like some DBZ anime shit.
>>46746186
You're also playing stories though, so? It's just a really arbitrary limit on fantasy from my point of view. It's like someone who won't play a specific scenario ever. Really weird. Most people are fine with gods being handled either way.
And like with all things the level of involvement of said gods and everyone, including the gods, power level is dependent on the campaign and setting. Sounds like you just had some meh campaigns. Never had a god directly give out quests even with a cleric in our party.
>>46745771
>we removed power point limitations altogether and just have a 'narrative power' system
>the way to fix the system is to not use the system for character creation
Gee, it's almost like the game had major balance issues, oh wait.
>>46745731
What do you mean by "gimmick mechanics"?
>>46746186
Do what Glorantha does. Lock all the gods away in the Shadow Realm. Their time on the earth is gone, it's the time for your adventurers. All the gods can give is guidance. It's the solution I have found to be the best without going to the two extremes of Final Fantasy and Testament RPG.
>>46743586
>>Hit Points are plot armor, not always actual injury
That's why you use two different trackers instead of one - Fatigue and Wounds, for example.
>>abstract wealth
Perfectly good, if the game operates off lifestyle expenses. Not everyone wants to play accountant.
>>non-standard dice
Which are? Although, yeah, that's pretty shitty.
>>46745722
>>The amount of skill points your character gets is based on their "class", regardless of what their actual intelligence or backstory is.
Class systems are pretty shitty in general, unless they are meant to simulate a genre, and therefore are archetypes.
I agree with everything else, though.
>>46745731
>>skill checks for things not of indeterminate success
Perfectly good, if the margin of success or failure determines how much resources (time, money etc.) the action takes.
Literally everything else you said are just buzzwords.
>>46745943
>>No way to encourage roleplay besides fiat
As it should be. If you hard-integrate roleplay encouragement into crunch, then people will roleplay not because they want creativity, but because they want said encouragement.
Again, everything else is just memes and buzzwords, but I agree.
>>46745289
Fucking this. M&M is a broken piece of shit and should be buried in the fucking desert.
>>46745943
alignments
>systems that are not homebrew
>d20 instead of 100
>Players that never ever roleplay. "i told him to fuck himself" WAS THIS SO HARD TO JUST SAY : "Intercourse thyself peasant".
And GM not giving disadvantages for not roleplaying
>>46746186
>>46745722
>Classic Mythology stories are still just STORIES.
Found the faggot
>>46743586
>superhero game
>immortality is treated as super-duper strong power and costs a ton
>while the book has section describing that death only happens by all around agreed plot and otherwise a TPK is just party getting captured
Quintuple points if the system also has a section detailing that IF you manage to actually die, you can comicbookplot bullshit your way back to life anyway.
>>46745289
And then you get punched again because you're in the same position that a punch is coming to.
Oh and because it's travel, not cancel, you are already punched in the same place.
So essentially what you built is that every time something punches you once, it traps you in endless cycle of being punched.
Good job mate.
>I tried to run this game over half a year ago, I'm still fucking mad.
If your PLAYER built it and you LET them have it work this way, it's your fault. They basically pulled "I use iron heart surge to turn off the sun" on you.
>>46746414
It's a point-based character creation where you can create pretty much whatever the hell you want. Lack of balance is implied. I challenge you to find a single system with character creation like that that's not trivially easy to break.
>>46746186
Stories... like all other fantasy fiction? What the fuck are you on about?
>>46746445
>Stop disliking what I like
You missed the point of the thread, bub.
>>46746707
>time travelling to any point in existence
You don't go back 5 seconds you idiot, you go back 24 hours and present yourself ample time to plan around it, and if 24 hours isn't enough then you can go back even further, or you can go forward in time and just skip shit all together. I didn't actually let the player take this for his character, but merely the fact that this is allowed in RAW is some seriously fucked up shit.
>>46745722
>Alot of these are gonna sound like "HURRDURR, DND/PATHFINDER SUCKS", but they're common in systems besides those as well.
Half of those aren't even DNDPF.
>Int gives you bonus points to spend on skills
>original setting rather than based on some outside property
>1 is not critfail on skills
>>46747006
Soo.
A guy is removed from current battle by one punch.
How is that even broken? He just absconds. The villain is free to do whatever the villain wants to do.
Time travel (and also space and dimension travel) are cheap as fuck in the system because they are plot facilitators. They don't do anything you don't let them do.
You're just reeing at autism of your player, yourself or both.
>>46746739
>Lack of balance is implied
How is this an excuse?
>>46746707
All this M&M talk makes me want to play it again.
Had a character I wanted to play for a while who, narratively, would have no special skills abilities, or powers, but he is the luckiest man in the world. Basically Gladstone Gander with a more combat-focus.
>Oh no, I've been shot. It's a good thing I carry my wallet in that pocket.
>I tripped trying to punch this guy, but I fell into him and shoved him into my ally's stray shot.
etc etc
>>46747055
Because if it's possible to do a balanced system with character creation like that, no-one has managed it yet.
>>46743586
System is blatantly built on "Racial diversity is objectively good, and hurting womens' feelings is objectively bad" propaganda.
>muh boogeyman
No, there are actually honest to god systems where the mechanics are rigged in favor of following x line of thought.
System can be used to either focus on story + roleplaying + fudging, or crunch + strategy + optimisation, and tries get both of them to work together, ending in both being gimped.
System's "Your players need to know this shit" or "Your players have like an 80% chance of asking about this in the first session" stuff is locked behind a paywall, i.e. your players would have to buy it themselves if they wanna read it.
System doesn't provide benchmarks for how hard a "Hard" thing is, or how simple a "Simple" thing is.
It takes me less than 30 minutes to find an inconsistency in the system that can be used to make 1 equal to 0.
>>46747115
So, stacking a metric fuckton of Luck advantage, plus max ranks of Luck Manipulation power. Neat.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to run a game and a guy wants to join a team that already has battlesuit, over half of captain planet crew by elements and a batman-type as regular joe with a baseball bat. He literally cited Kick-Ass as inspiration.
I have half a mind to just let him in and let him flounder around helplessly.
>>46747174
>No, there are actually honest to god systems where the mechanics are rigged in favor of following x line of thought.
Do you care to cite any actual system in which collecting all five colours of homo sapien in the party unlocks superior mechanical power?
>>46745771
>narrative power system
This sequence of words makes me worried.
>>46745289
To be fair, they do admit that you could potentially break the game like this, but they add in that it's up to you whether or not you should do this. If you want to make your game essentially "I got hit? REDO", you can, but it wouldn't be fun at all, so you make your power list at your own risk
>>46743586
>solo system
>system that forces me to play with other people who are invariably going to be various flavors of That Guy/Girl
>narrative system
>simulationist system
>gamist system
>system that can be found on TV Tropes - if it was good it'd be original, and if it's on TV Tropes, it's not original
>>46747478
>hurr i want original
>invent the bike again ot i'll tell yoy that you suck
Sometimes trying to make something really-really original leads to stuff like VTNL
>>46743586
>hit points are just plot armor
The only reason I don't like this is because it gives a bad GM a tool to abuse, in which a PC is clubbed in the back of the head and captured no rolls, and when the player points out "a simple clubbing could not possibly knock my character unconscious", the GM responds with "hit points are just an abstraction lmao when I describe you getting hit during fights you're not actually getting hit but you actually got hit by this peasant with a club haha you wake up butt naked in a prison cell with blah blah"
>>46747478
Look dude I get it that you're trying to cover literally everything under the sun, but
>system that can be found on TV Tropes - if it was good it'd be original, and if it's on TV Tropes, it's not original
How the fuck do some nerds sitting in their corner of the internet taking notice of your thing make you automatically hate the thing?
>>46747539
If GM wants to pull "peasant one-shot KO's you" he is going to do that no matter what.
>>46745289
>>46747006
Let me get this straight, you're proclaiming unending hate for a superhero system because it has too much freedom with superpowers and you had to refuse one guy's concept?
>>46743586
>>abstract wealth
>try to buy a pack of cheetos
>crit success
>100% of Kraft Food belongs to my PC now
>>46745667
Probably specialty dice, like in the Star Wars and Warhammer Fantasy systems.
>>46749728
Or the weird-ass ones used in DCC.
>>46745289
See when I GMed M&M I forced each player to take a unique 35 point power set in addition to their normal powers. One got a minmaxed teleporter array, one got the power to make 900cft anything they want out of nothing and to transmute materials and the third got the most broken set of time travel powers that game can build.
But then, they were fighting an alien invasion from beyond the edge of the universe who could manipulate probability, shoot mind bullets backwards through time, potentially be everywhere at once, resurrect the dead, fly through dead timelines in a spaceship the size of the sun and was backed up by cyborg alternate timeline versions of the PCs.
M&M is not for Marvel or DC type superhero games. It's for Homestuckesque universe hopping shenanigans.
>>46743586
>point buy systems
>>46750158
>dndroning so hard
>>46750158
>Urban fantasy "somehow the occult is real and hasn't been noticed yet despite it being 2016" shit
>You are the vampire, normal humans are just sheep NPCs
Cast it into the fire.
>all these M&M cocksuckers
CHAMPIONS or GTFO
>>46750199
>>Urban fantasy "somehow the occult is real and hasn't been noticed yet despite it being 2016" shit
Or even worse:
>even when confronted with irrefutable evidence of the supernatural, no-one believes it because the plot couldn't exist otherwise
>laughingghostbusters.jpg
>>46743586
I can pass on the weird dice, but the two other things you mentioned are great.
>>46746622
>system has a regular version and a d20 version
>people will play the d20 version over the regular version.
The OGL really ruined the hobby.
>>46743586
>Hit Points are plot armor, not always actual injury
This, fucking meme systems and their retarded pretentious shit.
>>46750645
> >>Urban fantasy "somehow the occult is real and hasn't been noticed yet despite it being 2016" shit
Hurr, DRRRRRRR.
>>46746948
No, I just like arguing, Logan Razorhands.
>>46750158
>>point buy systems
Both rolling and point buy are pretty shit.
Why not just take the best of both worlds and roll for on a "predetermined array" table?
>>46746622
>>systems that are not homebrew
You don't have to invent the wheel all over again. Moreover, some people enjoy trying out systems created specifically for emulating the genre, with genre fluff hard-integrated into the crunch.
>>46750645
>>Urban fantasy "somehow the occult is real and hasn't been noticed yet despite it being 2016" shit
What the fuck does the year number have to do with when the occult is discovered by the broad masses?
Maybe the occult didn't exist until the later half of 20th century, maybe it's too fucking fringe for it to be discovered in general, maybe it's being actively covered up and everyone who finds evidence of it is discredited and silenced.
Who fucking knows?
>>46751005
I agree. d20 isn't even that great of a die.
The best systems in my experience run either on d6s or d10s, regardless of whether they have pools, whether they count successes or use static or dynamic TNs etc.
Also, now that I think about it, the systems that utilise multiple types of dice are also pretty shit.
It's also a common indication that the roll mechanics are different for different parts of the game, which is the royal kind of bad shit no one should do.
I hate having to use different dice for the same character. I want to either be using a d6, 10, or 20. maybe even multiples. But I don't want to have to switch between them.
abstract rules
>"But as players, it is best you decide what fits well here"
No. I fucking paid to get the fucking rules. The least you could do is actually make them.
Not having simple overview pages (I'm looking at you, warhammer) for things.
I like being able to have three sheets of paper and nothing else, without having to go hunting through the book.
Critical fails.
What's that, a 5% chance that attempting to hit someone will cut off my foot?
>>46743586
>Alignment system
>HP with no severity to injuries
>Games that try to tie everything to reality while allowing magical abilities to break the game.
I found a long time ago that I can not stand a game /tg/ champions.
>>46746445
>>No way to encourage roleplay besides fiat
>As it should be. If you hard-integrate roleplay encouragement into crunch, then people will roleplay not because they want creativity, but because they want said encouragement.
Why is that a bad thing? I don't give a shit if someone is a great roleplayer because they want a shiny, I just want to play with good roleplayers. Adding mechanical benefits for roleplaying sounds like an excellent way to encourage people who would normally only care about what's on their sheet to engage with the world and the other players in a way that isn't combat or rolling for diplomacy.
>>46745289
You sir, are a fucking idiot.
Yes, the game breaks, because it's a system for making super heroes, and it gives you -all the tools- needed to do that.
It also says, flat out, in the goddamn book, unlike most others. There is no rule 0, it is printed rule 1 so you can beat a min-maxer in the face with it. VETO. SHIT. THAT ISN'T. FUN.
The simplest and most important question in the world about this game is: Would I watch or read a comicbook/cartoon about this character.
If the answer is no, you dun fucked up. And you dun royally fucked up, nigga.
>>46745667
Zochi dice like the d16 or d24 or that kind of bullshit
>>46747174
Name them then, fuckface, because it seriously sounds like you are cunting about nothing.
>>46743586
>Wealth by level
>>46747539
>Your Rogue has sneaked into the manor of the evil guy he needs to assassinate
>You put a knife to his throat and slice
>DM tells you to roll for damage, announces you just dealt 1/50th of his hitpoints in damage, he wakes up and kills you
>Fun
>>46754243
Because it's fucking counterproductive. If roleplay gives bonuses, everyone will try to roleplay all the time, and this "forced" roleplay usually won't be very good.
>>46753078
What about reverse death spirals?
>>46754446
Fucking seconded. If I wanted boogeymen, I would turn on fox news.
>>46754731
It's not counterproductive, the purpose is to encourage roleplaying, and if everyone is roleplaying, it succeeded. If I didn't want to deal with people being goofy around a table, I wouldn't be playing tabletops.
Since you bring it up though, what's the metric for 'good' roleplaying? Is it number of times moved to tears? Number of deep philosophical ideas a fictional character thought up by someone who isn't a professional writer and portrayed by someone who isn't a professional actor forces you to contemplate? I think you'll find that the vast majority of players, myself, and perhaps even you included, aren't great roleplayers. That said, at this point I'll settle for more of it.
>>46743586
>hit points plot armor
give me one system that accurately handles damage to each individual organ and limb and i'll consider that a valid objection.
>abstract wealth
you know... like in real life?
you could have the standing of a millionaire, even if you're actually millions of dollars in debt (like kanye) and even if you lost your possessions, because you are friends with certain interest groups.
>non standard dice
not a problem in the digital era where you can easily roll a d3
>>46755308
>what's the metric for 'good' roleplaying?
Right back at you.
What's 'good' roleplaying and how do you distiguish it from 'bad' roleplaying? How do you decide when to give mechanical bonuses for roleplaying and when not to? What's to stop a player from being That Guy by hogging the spotlight, and therefore, all the mechanical bonuses?
When you force a person to do something he is clearly not ready to do, there might be two outcomes - one is the person were nearly pushes through and does the thing, while the other is he fails and scared of trying it ever again, because failure breeds failure.
Not everyone has fun the way you do, anon.
You clearly haven't thought this through.
>>46745771
>GM veto is a necessary part
>we can't be assed to make rules that can be universally applied, so just let the GM do it.
>>46755457
>implying the GMs vetoes are universal and not tailored to that particular campaign.
>>46755457
That's. No, you stupid fucking retard.
The rules apply fine enough. It's a line item veto on character building, to tell little shits like you that no, you can't combine those powers because you'll abuse it then throw a goddamn tantrum about it not being 'fun'.
>>46754696
>What is a coup de grace
I dislike pathfinder/dnd, but still.
>>46755559
That's what i mean.
It's like saying.
>nah i cant be assed to create a coherent non hypocritical legal system that can be universally applied, even absolutely major and basic decisions will have to be made by the courts and by people sueing the courts and asking a higher court to decide
(see: US legal system)
it's shit.
the difficulty in creating a system is precisely to make it possible to combine things with each other in a COHERENT manner, and having a fixed set of rules that the universe is based upon.
anything else is just laziness on the authors part.
>>46755410
>What's 'good' roleplaying and how do you distiguish it from 'bad' roleplaying?
The point I was attempting to get across, (rather obtusely, I will admit) was that there isn't any such thing as good or bad roleplaying, simply roleplaying, and the game is more enjoyable when everyone contributes.
> What's to stop a player from being That Guy
There is no such thing as an asshole-proof system, anon. As with every other system, crunch-heavy, narrative driven, what have you, it always falls to the DM and the fellow players to deal with personality conflicts.
>When you force a person to do something he is clearly not ready to do
Providing incentive isn't the same as forcing people to do something. People are not forced to min-max in crunch-heavy games, they do it of their own accord.
>Not everyone has fun the way you do, anon.
This is true, and why most DM's don't chain their players to the table. If you come to a social game in order to not be particularly social, I'll raise an eyebrow, but again, I can't force you to do anything you don't want.
>You clearly haven't thought this through.
>Right back at you.
Alright, now that I've given a point-by-point rebuttal, I feel it's appropriate to note that you never actually answered the question, but rather tried to deflect the question back upon me. So, anytime you're ready, I'll be off doing something else.
>>46755663
Kill yourself. The system works perfectly coherently. The rules? Work fine.
However, there is printed in the rules themselves the right that the GM may tell you to fuck off with the shitty min-maxed abomination you made.
It is printed in the rules, so that when little rules lawyering faggots like you throw a bitchfit, like you niggers always do about Rule 0, they can tap the book, and point to where exactly it tells you to go fuck yourself.
>>46755663
>Superheroes
>coherent
Choose one and only one. Coherency doesn't work when the stuff you want to emulate isn't coherent in the first place. Incidentally it's why universal systems are always shit. You can't make a system that's prepared for everything. And the fact that literally anything is possible is hard-baked into superheroics. So don't be expecting a coherent system where there can't be one.
>>46755716
Not that anon, but
>and the game is more enjoyable when everyone contributes
Not even closely. It's most enjoyable when everyone does what he/she enjoys most. And that's not necessarily roleplaying.
>Providing incentive isn't the same as forcing people to do something. People are not forced to min-max in crunch-heavy games, they do it of their own accord.
When the system has an in-built if-you-want-to-be-relevant-do-this button, it's basically forcing the players to do that thing. Or else they lose out on playing the game which they wanted to do in the first place.
>>46755601
Coup de grace? You mean the thing where they roll a fort save that's laughably easy for anyone who's not a nerd to make?
Come on.
Games where bad things can happen to my character. That shit happens in real life, I don't need it to happen in my recreation as well.
>>46755871
>Not even closely. It's most enjoyable when everyone does what he/she enjoys most. And that's not necessarily roleplaying.
I want more systems to exist that make these stupid fuckers feel unwelcome.
>>46747047
>A guy is removed from current battle by one punch.
I'm not sure you understand how time travel works, Anon.
He's not gone from the fight. He's literally yesterday. He can show back up at any point he chooses but this time he'll be fully prepared. It's like Edge of Tomorrow but no do-overs if you get a bullet to the dome.
>>46755957
Good luck playing alone, then.
>>46755986
No game is better then gaming with you, shitter.
>>46746186
Just make some shit up for why the gods won't do it themselves. Jesus, man.
>>46755199
It sucks but at least it gives a consequence to damage that isn't just less meat points.
>>46755901
>DC 10+crit damage
>laughably easy
Pick one. Even at level 1 it's almost impossible to pass when anyone who has any business making a coup de grace is making one, and damage increases far faster than saves do.
>>46755733
I do not minmax. But the point is that you usually have to actually put some sort of effort into creating a broken character. In this game it seems you can just pick something which will immediately completely break a low level game, without you using some legal grey zone interpretation of some decades old supplement.
>>46755763
>Coherency doesn't work when the stuff you want to emulate isn't coherent in the first place.
And this attitude is why i (without ever having played that system) wouldn't want to play this. You can make everything sufficiently coherent and logical, even if you have to invent new universal laws for it. That's the duty of anyone creating a game system.
You don't have to be prepared for EVERYthing either.
I mean let me put it this way: If you're god. And you create a world where mixing ice and high pressure air will create an explosion destroying the universe, so you have to personally intervene every damn dime someone tries to do that, ... then i wouldn't call your creation a particularly good one.
>>46756246
Because it gives you ALL THE TOOLS to make ANY SUPERHERO.
And it's easy to break it, but it's also blindingly obvious what will break it. Ultra-high toughness and ultrahigh regeneration is clear. STupid time travel abuse is clear. The bathroom mentalist, is clear.
It's the GM's empowered duty to tell fuckfaces like that to fuck off.
This is why you are fucking retarded.
And your 'let me put up a stupid strawman' is fucking retarded too.
>>46755716
> you never actually answered the question, but rather tried to deflect the question back upon me
No shit, Sherlock.
And to answer your question, "good" roleplaying is roleplaying that contributes both to the character and to the narrative of the game itself.
>implying roleplaying can't contribute to the character
Yes, I'm implying exactly that.
That cunt that always wastes money on booze and whores and then demands to be rewarded for "proper roleplay of immoral and hedonistic desires of my character" (by the way, the keyword here is "always")? Or someone who's constantly hogging the spotlight and expecting to be rewarded for that, despite others clearly wanting to have a go?
Casual roleplay, something that occurs naturally in the course of the game, is good, and I don't argue with that. Again, the keyword here is "naturally", as in "I roleplay, because I find it interesting, and not because I get mechanical benefits out of it".
Hardcore roleplay is better suited for the theatre plays or freeform.
If you have to force yourself to have fun just so that others can have fun too, if there's a hard criteria to clear for having fun, if you turn the roleplay into a competitive mechanic, then, fucking no shit, I'm gonna be against it.
If you want an analogy, it's like those people who do science and spout shit like "Okay, I'm gonna think up a theory of everything!" and then come up with nothing after 10 years, while people who think something like "I wonder why my toes are so long" come up with award-winning theories in 2 years.
The quality of the enforced roleplay will always be inferior to people who just love roleplaying.
So instead of reinforcing the problem by forcing people to do shit they don't like and being bitter about it, why don't you instead teach people to love roleplay instead of enforcing it?
>>46756323
I sincerely hope you never find a game to play in, ever again.
>>46756323
Nigger, if you are playing a ROLE PLAYING GAME to do things OTHER THEN ROLEPLAY, I do not fucking want you at my table.
>>46756364
>>46756397
>roleplay should be a try-hard discipline, so that talentless cunts who are motivated solely by mechanical benefits will detract from the average quality of roleplaying and the people who are genuinely motivated by pure interest in roleplaying
Yeah, nah, fuck you.
Good job on the ad hominem, though.
>>46756397
Also, again, you are putting the carriage before the horse.
Good roleplayers should be rewarded, but the promise of reward shouldn't motivate roleplaying.
>>46756434
Eat a fucking bullet, you worthless faggot.
You are literal cancer, and I hope every game you ever play in violently self-destructs.
Also, strawmanning out the fucking asshole, holy shit.
>>46756453
No, you still can't get it through your fucking skull.
I DO NOT WANT. TO PLAY. WITH PEOPLE LIKE THAT. I HOPE THEY NEVER PLAY A PnP EVER AGAIN.
With actually good players, it isn't a problem. Just in these shitters that you want to play with for some godforsaken reason.
>>46751789
You forgot to say anything.
>>46756246
Are you fucking retarded? Universal laws in a superhero game? Logic in a superhero game? A superhero game not having everything and anything? Have you ever read a fucking superhero comic book?
>>46756453
And how on God's green Earth are you going to do THAT?
>>46756495
THEN DON'T PLAY WITH PEOPLE LIKE THAT, BECAUSE I SURE AS FUCK DON'T.
I PLAY WITH PEOPLE WHO ROLEPLAY BECAUSE THE WANT TO DO IT, AND NOT BECAUSE THEY EXPECT A REWARD FOR IT.
If you integrate roleplay encouragement into the system, you are creating a culture of people who expect to be rewarded, when roleplaying should in fact be the norm.
>>46756547
By letting it remain a subjective judgement of a DM, instead of hardcoding it into rules like that dumb idiot is suggesting, for one.
>>46756579
And how is that any different? You are just substituting one arbitrary system with another.
>Imagine, if you will, a superhero role-playing game that emulates how comicbooks actually work. When comic writers sit down to pen a story, they don't have a character sheet in front of them that defines precisely what the characters can do... how strong or agile they are, what skills they demonstrate, what the exact parameters of their powers are.
>Instead, they give the characters what the story demands of them. If the story requires the power-armored hero to have stealth armor, he'll most likely have it on hand. Should it be critical that the hero with the magic amulet needs to generate a mystic shield, you can almost bank on her getting it. Does the hero with normal human strength desperately need to lift a gargantuan chunk of concrete off of his ally? Chances are, he'll be able to muster up the power to do so. It all comes down to what makes for a more entertaining story.
Never been turned off a game as quickly as the time I read that. I'm sure that sounds like the bee's knees to some people, but it's just complete garbage to me.
>>46756652
Because one system is consistent (rules), while the other is not (DM)?
Therefore, the players tend to rely on one (rules), but not the other (DM)?
Again, teach people to love roleplaying, not soft- or hard-enforce it.
>>46754343
>The simplest and most important question in the world about this game is: Would I watch or read a comicbook/cartoon about this character.
A-fucking-men. Also, fitting the tone of the group.
When you have
>an immortal from 1400's that drowned, washed up ashore 2010's, learned english from hobos and fights crime
>an atlantean that washed up on the same shore chasing a supervillain, now looks for clues and fights crime
>a reformed supervillain with earth magic that fights crime
>a reformer supervillain with fire magic that fights crime
>anarchist bomber described as Chaotic Neutral in a system completely detached from alignment grid
SOMETHING here ain't right.
(the accidental matching of washed up ashore elements was hilarious and I'm sure it was independent. The reformed villains I give 50% of accident, 50% getting inspired by the first one, but they're all cool)
>>46743586
>hit points are always actual injury, not plot armor
>concrete micromanaged wealth
>uncreative dice mechanics
I have no interest in recreating the design failures, cargo cult "realism", and epic RNG xD that have been ruining games for decades.
>>46756699
You can't 'teach' people to love roleplaying, much like you can't teach them to love mayonnaise.
>>46756825
>implying
My personal experience with people says otherwise, both in regards to roleplaying and mayonnaise.
>inb4 "ur a cunt and wrong"
Let's just fucking agree to disagree, because this is going nowhere.
>>46756671
Damn, that clocks up my tryhardometer as much as ICONS renaming turns and rounds to panels and pages does.
>>46744112
Uncharted?
>>46756671
>google it
>find the game
>open sample character
Woow that "art"
>>46756924
>+2 vs sexual predators
>>46755716
>Not everyone has fun the way you do, anon.
>This is true, and why most DM's don't chain their players to the table.
Uh. I think you might want to reconsider how you have fun.
>>46756960
Just damn.
>>46747174
>System is blatantly built on "Racial diversity is objectively good"
What system does this?
>>46756998
Last one, is that a villain? I'm really not sure after the previous edge.
>>46756851
Look man, I'm just saying that forcing your tastes on people might not be as cool as you think it is. Both in you hobby and in the kitchen.
>>46756501
I actually haven't.
But everything has to follow some laws or it's arbitrary mary sue wish fulfillment.
>>46757286
That's exactly what comics are.
>>46743586
>Gelatinous octahedrons
>>46756323
is that you, virtoptim?
>>46745751
We have got that. It's the crit damage system from the 40k RPGs
>>46745667
Anything more obscure than the basic D4, D6, D8, D12, D20. No D36 or other bullshit shapes, no special symbols
>>46757585
>d12
>basic
>>46757596
It's more basic than a fucking d36
>>46757613
d36 is easily rollable with two d6s.
(no it's not 1d6*1d6, it's (1d6-1)*6+1d6)
>>46747478
I keep hearing about people shitting on about Tv Tropes. Call me a fucking idiot, but I still don't see the problem with TV Tropes.
>>46757596
It comes in those Chessex D&D dice sets so I'd call it basic. Not common but not particularly rare either.
>>46757669
There is quite a lot of autism on tvtropes (cataloguing every little thing about shows they like really appeals, you know)
And in the past there was a reeeeaaaaallllll lot of extra dumb and cringe shit. Which has since been nuked.
Unfortunate victim of the nuke was their section of stories about ttrpg campaigns the users played in, which was nice mix of good and bad but hilarious.
But 4chin holds onto hate like no tomorrow.
>>46756671
Disgusting
>>46754446
I'm not any of the above posters, but I remember an old /tg/ storytime where there's some game setting where it's implied that political correctness is basically enforced by mind control.
What made the thread good was that it was that one group that fucks with settings by dropping Serbia into the neighborhood, advancing the timeline a couple hundred years, and then making characters.
Some google fu tells me the setting was called Blue Rose.
>>46757734
wait till you see the sample characters for that system posted a little further in.
>>46757736
Think it was the Slavic area in general. Someone probably has it saved for their greentext threads.
>>46757736
>>46757804
>>46743586
>Damage is consistent, no matter where you hit.
You shoot him! You hit the arm! That's 6 damage! You shoot again? Uuuh... you hit the fucker across the chin with that one! ...That's 6 damage.
>Magic or equalent can be used without risks.
If you want to open a portal and fuck up, I want you to suffer the consequences.
>When you read through the playable races in the game and one sticks out as being 100% fetish-bait.
There are fetishes for everything, but I'm talking about that race...
The race that isn't only a cat race, but it says in the fucking bio that they lay eggs and you can't see the difference between the genders of which they have three.
Now that's stretching it, but when they can also reproduce with other races, cashing that in with everything above, it's a huge minus in the settings credibility.
>When you read through the playable races in the game and only one race sticks out as special snowflake.
What, you have elves that can regenerate health in the sun? Have eye colors that switch colors with your moods and are chosen by god?
Then pack your bags, the Orcs regenerate health all the time to a smaller degree, it's because the orcs are chosen by the God of Air.
If you want special snowflakes in my game, make it more like a roleplaying perk/flaw and preferable a reason to why the race is that way.
"You guys starving? I can read the mind of fruits, I can find some for you but you'll have to harvest them yourselves because my race are descendants from apples or some shit."
>Non-standard dice.
I'm with you on that one OP.
>Combat is easy/Limbs can regrow as if it's a universal thing/Shit doesn't have consequences.
Go fuck youself, game.
>Games that pits the GM "against" the players rather then being an awesome story.
I'm a GM who position herself "behind the shoulder" of a character, I don't "side" with the bad guys, if shit happens, it just happened, sorrow all around.
>>46758409
>herself
Himself* Fuck you phone, what you playing at?
>>46758409
As infamous as D&D is with magic it has had ways to make it more costly like material components, focuses, needing to prepare ahead of time, needing to concentrate, needing a spellbook (depends on class), spell failure with armor, etc. etc.
DMs just need to be way more strict with certain things like spell components, focuses taking up one of your hands, and things like that. Too many are way too lenient about it. I feel like magic doesn't always need a Perils of the Warp if magic is resource intensive in some way or another.
>>46745289
Time, space, and dimensional travel are specifically called out as being unsuitable for most campaigns. You should only have the ability to time travel at will if time travel is a focus of the story. In which case your enemies can probably do it too.
>>46758529
Fair enough, in my defense, I like the "It's risky, but I can do it..."-trope.
Been playing D&D for 2 years and I'm just shit tired of that setting/system.
It sucks my friends are afraid of anything else then d20's, god forbid we'd throw 3d6's or 1d100.
>>46758620
The best way to get your way is to be the GM. Try running Savage Worlds or Dark Heresy for them.
If you're an experienced GM who loves to homebrew then GURPS too but I'd recommend the above because I find people learn those games really fast, GMs and players.
>>46756320
I remember reading superspeedsters could be OP in M&M3e, so I was paranoid about mine getting rejected.
He got accepted, and my first fight was an enemy speedster and we had a city-wide fistfight.
Was some good shit. Shame the campaign died afterwards.
>>46758717
I am the GM 75% of the times, we tried Dark Heresy, but the "combats took too long" and the "character sheet looked intimidating."
It's simply too much for them to understand, I have to start every campaign idea with:
>Hey guys, have you ever seen Star Wars?
>What, you haven't seen Star Wars?
>I recommend the shit out of Star Wars.
>Oh, you liked the movies? Maybe you'd like the animated series too?
>You guys finished them already? That was quick, what was your most favourite part? I loved that part, wonder if there's a PnP like it...
>Oh would you look at that, Edge of the Empire, what do you guys say?
>Huh, sad shit that one player had to go and never show up until D&D came back on the menu, but hey, we can still play it!
>What? You can't fill out the character sheet? I can do it with you!
>No need to leave because of a character sheet, why sould that be a reason not to have fun?
>I found this character generator! I'm glad you could make it despite being depressed all of a sudden!
By the time they finally decide, I'm all tired of Star Wars and have to GM a game I don't want to play anymore.
I wouldn't say shit if they had jobs, but they spend their entire days in front of the computer waiting for roleplaying to happen.
And if I ask what they want, they want D&D. Nothing specific, just "do that thing when you make shit up on the fly."
I don't know man, I need to spoonfeed them their fantasies because they can't think themselves, they don't even do drugs damnit.
>>46758529
>material components
Most can be handwaved using eschew materials or having a material component bag and the ones that cannot are spells that you wouldn't need to cast more than once anyways.
Even then, people ignore it because it's just added bookkeeping in a system that already requires extensive bookkeeping just to know what your character can do and how many bonuses he'd get towards any given action.
>Prepare ahead of time
Most parties will straight up not continue if the spellcaster is low on spells and even if they cannot, there are spells that allow them to summon an extra dimensional plane to prep spells in without risk and the game halts to a screeching halt anyways.
>concentrate
All around worthless in third edition due to how easy it was to pump concentration so you'll never lose a spell but the way they handled it in 5e at least made it so you couldn't stack multiple buffs at the same time at least.
Still doesn't necessarily stop the cheese though.
>Needing a spellbook
There are multiple ways to cast spells without even needing a spellbook and even then, a wizard with prep time can just produce scrolls or copy his spells in a second/third/fourth spellbook just in case his shit gets stolen.
>Spell Failure w/ armor
Only applies to arcane spellcasting and there are several ways to buff your AC without even needing to wear armor in the first place.
That and there are feats that allow arcane spellcasters to reduce (if not outright negate) the penalties to casting in armor anyways.I've never seen anyone use focuses, only you're talking about stuff like holy symbols and the like. Otherwise, I cannot comment on it.
>>46758962
>Even then, people ignore it
Yeah, I know. Maybe they shouldn't. As annoying at it is, it's very effective at lowering the power level if the DM religiously keeps track of your material components and is very strict about them. I learned this after playing with a very old grognard.
>>46759024
Here's the thing, with the amount of bullshit that you're already expected to keep track of just to play your character; from the stat bonuses to the HP to the AC to the CMB and the CMD and the bonuses you receive from performing certain actions, how many spells you can cast, which spells you have access to, what each spell does; to the feats your character has to special race abilities to what those feats do and which feats require what prerequisites in order to take them; to carrying capacities and magic items and what they do and how fast you can run and what dice you roll and, just, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!
In truth, it's much easier trying to file your taxes then it is to play 3.5/Pathfinder, and we're not even getting into supplements where the amount of options available increases exponentially and the new rules to keep track of as a player retroactively influences everything that you do (like when Ultimate Combat made rules that added penalties for called shots).
Since the game doesn't give a fuck about shit like material components, given the number of ways there is to ignore it by the RAW, why should people honestly give a fuck about it when all it does is add more tedium?
>non linear dice system
nope I wont do the percentage math on my brain everytime I want to think about how difficult it is to do something
>>46756323
This smarmy Jackass:>>46755716, checking in.
You're so goddamn mad, man. You aren't even making salient points, or addressing anything I said, you're attacking arguments of you're own construction. I'm laughing at you even as I type this. Just thought you'd like to know. Cheers.
Ever since I got into GURPS, I just dislike anything whimsical and without sense. Like most systems now appears bloated with arbitrary bullshit and mechanics that really just leave me wondering "Why?".
>>46759153
And that's the other thing.
You don't want to try and control the power level by making it a goddamn pain to play. It's a goddamn GAME it is meant to be FUN.
>>46760299
Careful anon, the D&Dfags will start calling an extra roll to dodge/parry or armor working as DR as too simulationist and complicated.
>>46760299
Amen.
ALSO:
Fuck bennies.
Fuck d20 linear probability.
Fuck feat taxes.
Fuck levels.
Fuck dice pools.
>Die rolling mechanic in the system to resolve actions only tells the Dm if the player succeeded or failed, not by how much or if there were complications.
>>46760299
But GURPS provides access to plenty of whimsical and senseless things.
>>46759024
>As annoying at it is, it's very effective at lowering the power level if the DM religiously keeps track of your material components
It isn't, at all. There are tons of broken spells that have extremely easy to obtain spell components, spells that don't require components, or spells that use reusable focuses instead.
This is also disregarding how divine casters don't have to care about them and are just as busted.
>>46761924
It's optional though, not worked into core mechanics.For the record, Rapier Wit is insane. 5 points to stun people with what is essentially a free action? Pretty crazy.
>>46763225
I only allow it if the player can come up with actually good stuff
>>46757736
>>46757804
>>46758406
Aaand there is nothing about "REE FORCES SJW!"
>>46756924
>>46756960
>>46756998
>>46757030
Wooow.
This is what happens when edgelords decide to write games.
>>46747205
Embrace the *World systems anon.
They are the future.
