Is multiclassing as a wizard in 3.5 always a Bad Idea?™
Not always. There are some really good prestige classes.
>>46736095
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvmVnTQtZQY
>>46736095
Generally speaking in 3.PF you never want to combine a full caster class with anything that doesn't stack spellcasting ranks in the full caster class.
So, several prestige classes are OK but several are not and trying to multi with random other classes is almost always a bad idea because #1 top wizard power is throwing out spells, and you're losing out on that for stuff that is almost always going to be inferior to wizard spells.
>>46736179
Can you think of any off the top of your head?
>>46736095
With a base class? Yes, absolutely a bad idea. You're better than them anyway.
Prestige classes, on the other hand, can be quite useful. Most of them continue your spell progression while also giving you other goodies.
>>46736095
What's the source on this?
>>>46736095 he doesn't know about the mindbender dip
>>46736395
The seasonal harem
>>46736395
Konosuba. A NEET gets owned super hard and gets reincarnated in D&D. It's a comedy.
>>46736306
Pure wizard is never the right choice when there are full spellcasting progression prestige classes.
You should typically go for classes that provide extra spell-lists and additional versatility: you're already god, so expand your domain.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave
Is good for very necromancy focused wizards/clerics, at least as far as I can tell.
Arcane scholar of candlekeep, if your DM will allow it.
>>46736440
It's a comedy!?
>>46738818
Now that I have the chance to mention it even if it's otherwise unrelated, you could watch Hai to Gensou no Grimgar after Konosuba. Konosuba's a parody or spoof of Sword Art Online style anime, whereas Grimgar is a (very) slow-paced deconstruction of the same thing. It'd make for a nice contrast.
>>46738896
I'm a semiweab but I haven't heard of that series
it's on my next watch now
What should I watch after that? I really love how depressing Welcome to the NHK is, and its efficacy as a character study. I'm usually down for any series that doesn't become harem based
>>46738896
>Sword Art Online style anime
Not really. Trapped in an MMO and Reincarnated in a Fantasy World are distinctly different (Sub?)genres even if they do share points.
Admittedly, both of them are more web novel genres these days, although a large number of them do end up with Light Novel adaptations, which will probably lead to more of them getting anime as well. So because of that I can see why you would lump both together seeing as they don't have a whole lot of exposure in modern shows just yet.
I feel like this post got longer than I intended it to be. It kind of got away from me.
>>46739049
Grimgar is definitely not harem. It's not depressing, bleak and grounded would be more like it. It takes the "people are transplanted into a MMO fantasy world" premise and manages to make it a convincingly mundane setting. Very little goes on in the whole series and none of it is that interesting by itself (probably would be just the 2 hours or so of a real MMO), it's very character-driven.
Think of what Neon Genesis Evangelion did to mecha, except more low-key and without the edginess.
>>46739117
I didn't know how to reply to this, just letting you know I appreciate you writing this
>>46739243
Come to think of it, it's more comparable to Gundam, but if you haven't watched either you probably won't get what I mean
>>46739117
I appreciate you too anon.
>>46736306
Initiate of seven veils.
Incantatrix.
Initiate of Mystra.
There are more but those are what I could think of immediately.
Pathfinder blaster wizards (not necessarily optimal, admittedly) can normally benefit from a 1-level crossblooded sorcerer dip to add +2 damage/die to their element of choice.
>>46736095
Generally, any sort of multiclassing away from Wizard (or any primary spellcaster) in D&D3e is a bad idea, since the strongest point of the Wizard is spells and spells are the strongest things in the game, and any sort of multiclassing will take that away from you.
That, and there is nothing you get from 1st level in another class that is worth losing advanced spells and better spellcasting.
There are some exceptions. Wizard/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge is one which is pretty decent. I've liked Wizard/Bard/Ultimate Magus, although it's not all that powerful. And of course, there are plenty of prestige classes which advance spellcasting for all 10 levels.
Of course, spellcasting is generally so good that even losing a level or two isn't terrible. It depends a bit on how well you know arcane casting, how difficult the campaign is, and how well you can manage the caster level loss.
>>46738818 Satire really, but yes.
>>46739608
Seconding Incantatrix. It's crazy good.
>>46739243
I dunno man, I just finished ep 1, and it's feeling pretty depressing and methodical already.
>>46742035
As a different anon, from what I remember about Grimgar conversations is that it feels like that for the first four or so episodes and then kind of stops with that.
I don't know though, I gave it the three episode rule and then dropped it because it's not my kind of show.
>>46742111
Well, I'm hoping it stays this way... a bit more action or success for the protagonist would be pleasant, but that's just the wish fulfillment/escapism side of me talking
>>46742212
There is more action when they stop completely sucking at fighting. After a few episodes they can take on a whooping 2 (two) goblins at only minor risk of getting killed and near the end they're almost competent
That was one of the most satisfying things about watching it actually
>>46742280
I dunno, I just feel like there's too big a cast of characters for them to suck this badly. I mean, there's like, 6 of them
I guess I kind of want to see the main character throat stab somebody and one hit them
>>46742426
>>46742280
it's kind of hard to feel happy for them because they're so inept
>>46742426
That's actually one of the skills he's supposed to have, it just takes a while for it to kick in
Remember they're random japanese teenagers who probably had never fought before nevermind used a weapon. As a rule of thumb, whenever they go to train with their guildmasters to get a new skill that's when fight scenes get flashier. I think it happens 3 times.
Wizards and other "full casters" (classes that are based around their spells and can end up getting very high-level spells) get their power from the SPELLS they have.
No amount of nifty bonus feats or miscellaneous number-boosts will make up for losing the DISGUSTINGLY AMAZING spells that float around high levels.
As a general rule, NEVER lose caster levels, beause it means losing access to or at least delaying those awesome spells.
That said, if you absolutely know that you'll be going to 20th level or beyond, then you can technically afford to lose EXACTLY three caster levels or less.
Why exactly three? Because a wizard finally gets access to 9th levels spells at 17th level, so level 18,19, and 20 of wizard are just for boosting spells per day. High INT and good planning can make up for that.
The safest thing to do is only multiclass into stuff that advances casting. Here's a great handbook on some strong wizard options. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0
Also:
>Heavy multiclassing (such as Wizard 10/Cleric 10) is very bad because you don't end up functioning like a 20th level character, you end up functioning like a versatile level 10 character.
>There are some things that are worth losing a caster level for. Check out Anima Mage (though technically you can avoid the Binder dip if you're willing to invest two specific feats).
>3.5e isn't that great (besides the compelling and expansive character-building) and I really regret all the time I spent on it. Try it out so you can form an opinion of your own, but don't get attached just because its interesting as a system alone.
>>46744058
>Heavy multiclassing (such as Wizard 10/Cleric 10) is very bad because you don't end up functioning like a 20th level character, you end up functioning like a versatile level 10 character.
This, really, is the biggest problem.
Heavy multiclassing with a melee character (something like Fighter 10/Rogue 10) isn't much of a concern. It's a loss of +3 BAB, which is a single attack and a few points off a two-hit roll. The final attack at -20 BAB is either going to be irrelevant (miss anyways) or redundant (already getting three guaranteed hits) and so it isn't much of a loss.
Heavy multiclassing with a skill character (such as Rogue 10/Fighter 10) is a bit worse, but not terrible. You can still put skill points into cross-class skills to keep them at full level, and if you switch between classes, can still keep a decent number of skills at max skill level. They won't be an expert in as many skills as a Rogue 20, but will still be fully competent in the skills they did focus on.
But a multiclass spellcaster will always end up underpowered. Wizard 10/Fighter 10 doesn't just have a minor penalty compared to Wizard 20; it's missing half the spell list and has around one third of the spell slots. It's also suffering a larger (in comparison) penalty to its save DCs as a result. You don't have a 20th level character with a few disadvantages; you have a 10th level character with more HP. And that is really the biggest problem with the situation: you're asking what is effectively a 10th level character to solve 20th level problems, since D&D3e assumes some sort of level-appropriateness for the challenges.
Sure, there are ways around that. Getting into the correct prestige classes can avoid the worst of it. But that's the other major problem with D&D3e: it requires a vast amount of pre-planning for every character just to be sure they don't end up in one of these "trap" situations and to be sure they have the skills/feats necessary for the prestige class.
