I've been reading a colonial era tome, Glossary of Tribes and Castes of Punjab and NW Frontier Province, and I can't believe this place hasn't been made a setting for a campaign yet.
This is was the Wild West of the medieval period, a gigantic expanse of plains, hills, desert and forest dotted by towns, and surrounded by ancient and colossal empires. Here hundreds of castes, races, clans and tribes have been in a constant state of war for fucking centuries continuing to the present day.
Let's discuss the history and peoples of this place if anyone else is interested
>>46728460
>Sikh nihangs or pure, the fighting force of the Sikh empire
>>46728498
>Kashmiri shawl merchants
>>46728518
>A Hindu jogi or mendicant from Punjab
>>46728532
>A Shia Muslim descendant of Mohammad
>>46728544
>A Tibetan interpreter
>>46728564
>Oodassees, Sikh devotees or mendicants
>>46728518
>>46728532
>>46728544
>>46728564
>>46728572
>Medieval
Have a picture of a medieval knight, ca 1470, probably.
>>46728460
The Central Asia is a treasure of unexplored ideas for fiction. I still have muc to learn about it, and here are the materials waiting to be read:
http://deremilitari.org/2014/08/the-inner-asian-warriors/
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/rubruck.html
https://archive.org/details/textsversionsofj00hakluoft
http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2014/10/traveling-the-silk-roads.html
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Travels_of_Marco_Polo
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/cities/cities.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20020626225848/http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/page3.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_along_the_Silk_Road
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=GXejBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA670&lpg=PA670&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
>>46728572
>Like the Khattri again, but unlike the Bania, the Arora is no mere trader, but will turn his hand to anything. In the Western Punjab he will sew clothes, weave matting and baskets, make vessels of brass and copper, and do goldsmith's work.
>>46728623
These photographs of the same people, never said those were medieval
>Despite his inferior physique, he is active and enterprising, industrious and thrifty.
>"When an Arora girds up his loins (says a Jhang proverb), ho makes it only two miles to Lahore."
>In the service of the State more Arords than Mubummadans are employed, though the latter are nearly six times as namerous as the former. As several land-owning families have been ruined in their dealings with Aroras such sayings "he who has a Kirar (coward, synonymous for Aroras) for a friend, needs not an enemy,"
>But the Arora is the person to whom the Kirar term is most commonly applied, and Khatris repudiate the name altogether as derogatory.
>The Kirar appears as a terrible coward in the proverbs of the countryside : "The thieves were four and we eighty-four; the
thieves came on and we ran away. Damn the thieves ! well done us ! "
>And again : " To meet a Rathi armed with a hoe makes a company of nine Kirars feel alone."
>Again : " Trust not a crow, a dog, or a
Kirar, even asleep."
>So again : " You can't make a friend of a
Kirar any more than a widow of a whore."
>>46728824
Man, curry muncher women age like shit. It's a shame because some of them are real QTs when they are young.
>>46728849
>Some of their young women are hot!
Is there a single people besides abos where this is not the case, really?
>>46728902
...no, you got me there (possibly) fellow Ausbro.
HOREE SHIEEET
I fucking fell in love with the entire region when I was in Afghanistan and [classified]
If by some miracle everyone either goes fedora or settles their tribal bullshit I'm coming back
>>46728943
Tell us about it, family.
>>46728824
Fucked up the formatting of that one.
>The Ahirs were probably by origin a pastoral caste, but in the Punjab they are now almost exclusively agricultural, and stand in quite the first rank as husbandmen. They are of the same social standing as the Jat and Gujar, who will eat and smoke with them; but they have not been, at any rate within recent times, the dominant race in any considerable tract.
>They are industrious, patient, and orderly ; and though they are ill spoken of in the proverbs of the country side, they say in Rohtak : "village of the Ahirs has fifty brick houses and thousand swaggerers."
>In Delhi : " Rather be kicked by a Rajput or stumble uphill, than hope anything from a jackal, spear grass, or an Ahir" ; and again: "All castes are God's creatures, but three castes are ruthless, when they get a chance they have no shame : the whore, the Banya, and the Ahir." The phrase Ahir be-pir refers to their supposed faithlessness. But these stigmas arc, now-a-days at least, wholly undeserved.
>>46728849
Apparently, the Arora people are known for being rather rotund and shapeless
>>46728460
>Wild West of the X period
Wonder how well Punjab/Afghan theme would mesh with other Wild West of the X period, such as Zaporozhian Cossack and surrounding lands, and of course the American Wild West.
How do we make a setting like this? There needs to be the theme of untamed nature, and the hardy people who build up homesteads in that untamed nature, and the native people who might be in friction with the newcomers.
>>46729011
Gujjars are like fucking kobolds
>In the hills Gujar herdsmen are found in great numbers, all possessing a common speech. Here they are a purely pastoral race, taking their herds up into the higher ranges in summer and descending with them during cold weather; and it may be said that the Gujar is a cultivator only in the plains. Even there he is a bad cultivator, and more given to keeping cattle than to following the plough.
>He is of the same social standing as the Jat, or perhaps slightly inferior ; but the two eat and drink in common without any scruple, and the proverb says : "The Jat, Gujar, Ahir, and Gola are all four hail fellows well met."
>But he is far inferior in both personal character and repute to the Jat. He is lazy to a degree, and
a wretched cultivator; his women, though not secluded, will not do field work save of the lightest kind ; while his fondness for cattle extends to those of other people.
>The difference between a Gujar and a Rajput cattle-thief was once explained to me thus by a Jat: "The Rajput will steal your buffalo. But he will not send his father to say he knows where it is and will get it back for Rs. 20, and then keep the Rs. 20 and the buffalo too. The Gujar will." The Gujars have been turbulent throughout the history of the Punjab, they were a constant thorn in the side of the Delhi emperors, and are still ever ready to take advantage of any loosening: of the bonds of discipline to attack and plunder their neighbours.
>>46729112
>Their character as expressed in the proverbial wisdom of the countryside is not a high one : " A desert is better than a Gujar : wherever you see a Gujar, hit him."
>Again : " The dog and the cat two, the Hangar and the Gujar two ; if it were not for these four, one might sleep with one's door open"
>so " The dog, the monkey, and the Gujar change their minds at every step;" and ''When all other castes are dead make friends with a Gujar."
>As Mr. Macunachie remarks: "Though the Gujar possesses two qualifications of a highlander, a hilly home atid a constant desire for other people's cattle, he never seems to have had the love of fighting and the character for manly independence which distinguishes this class elsewhere. On the contrary he is generally a mean, sneaking, cowardly fellow; and I do not know that he improves much with the march of civilization, though of course there are exceptions.
>>46729112
Sounds like a good book, Anon. I'm working on a sourcebook for a middle eastern/exotic setting. Some of this stuff sounds real useful.
>>46728460
>Glossary of Tribes and Castes of Punjab and NW Frontier Province
Just downloaded it, thanks for the heads up, Anon.
>>46729210
Link please?
>>46729256
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/h-a-horace-arthur-rose/a-glossary-of-the-tribes-and-castes-of-the-punjab-and-north-west-frontier-provin-eso.shtml
About half way down the page are links to DL in various formats.
>>46729057
Jats are pretty much the cossacks of india
>The Jats are divided into 12 chief clans and about 230 minor gotras. Though the origin of the Jat tribe is shrouded in mystery, but the Jats betray tribal traits. Agriculture has always been the main occupation of the Jats, but they also form the bulk of the military and the police. The Jats are brave and hardworking who possess both the desire and ability to rule. Many Jats were recruited into the Indian Army during World War I. Before that, they served as fighters in the Persian army. The Jats form the largest ethnic groups in the army.
>The Jats occupy their own niche in the mosaic of stereotypes in the Indian consciousness, and the stereotype can turn out to be startlingly alive: a matial race, patriarchal, brawny, artless, proud, phlegmatic, blunt, impetuous, fight-ready. The Jat reputation for aggression comes from a frustration that other people are unwilling to listen to the truth.
>Historian Irfan Habib once quoted Huein Tsang’s 7th century account of encountering what Habib speculates were the Jats, where Tsang says these people “have no masters” and mentions their “unfeeling temper” and “hasty disposition” These stereotypes have lent to many sayings about them:
>Jat tab mada jania jab uski chauth aa lay. (One can't be sure a Jat's dead until the fourth day)
> The Jat is of all Punjab races the most impatient of tribal or communal control, and the one which asserts the freedom of the individual most strongly
>>46729277
Thanks
>>46729323
>>46729311
>>46729286
>>46729294
Thanks, /int/ for contributing, any other memes you want to notify us of?
>>46729322
Also try this
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/literature?browse=English_Books
Has volume 3 scanned lots of empty cover to cover so lots of empty pages
yo, i always thought that Sikh is an united race and they are fucking martial like the one involved their Golden Temple.
>>46728460
How about designating a toilet system instead?
>>46729309
>As a rule a Jat is a man who does what seems right in his own eyes and sometimes what seems wrong also, and will not be said nay by any man. I do not mean that he is turbulent; as a rule he is very far from being so. He is independent and he is self-willed; but he is reasonable, peaceably inclined if left alone, and not difficult to manage. He is usually content to cultivate his fields and pay his revenue in peace and quietness if people will let him do so; though when he does go wrong he takes to anything from gambling to murder, with perhaps a preference for stealing other people's wives and cattle." As usual the proverbial wisdom of the villages describes him very fairly, though perhaps somewhat too severely: The soil, fodder, clothes, hemp, grass fibre, and silk, these six are best beaten; and the seventh is the Jat. A Jat, a Bhat, a caterpillar, and a widow woman; these four are best hungry. If they "eat their fill they do harm." "The Jat, like a wound, is better when bound."
>"When a Jat goes wild, God alone can rein him in."
>In agriculture the Jat is pre-eminent. "The Jat's baby has a plough handle for a plaything." "The Jat stood on his corn heap and said to the king's elephant drivers, 'Will you sell those little donkeys?'" Socially, the Jat occupies a position which is shared by the Ror, the G�jar, and the Ahir, all four eating and smoking together. He is of course far below the Rajput, from the simple fact that he practises widow-marriage.
>>46729386
No Sikhism is a religion. There are castes within it.
>Khatri: This is the trader caste. All the Sikh gurus were from this community.
>Jat: The most numerous of the Sikhs, these are the martial community who have formed the backbone of the Sikh military
>Untouchable Sikhs
etc, etc
>>46729366
Don't see volume 3 in there, only volume 2
>>46729462
yo post moar sikh warrior
>>46729614
>September 1897, signalman Gurmukh Singh of the 36th Sikh Regiment looked out into the horizon and saw regimental battle flags. Like, a shitload of them.
>Havildar Singh called his garrison together for an emergency meeting – all 20 men of it. All twenty men voted to stay.
>On two separate attacks the Orakazai hurled themselves at the walls of Saragarhi, and on both occasions were repelled .
>A team of Orakazai sappers breached through and set fire to the fort.
>The enemy troops managed to break through the outer walls of the fort, their positions concealed by the inferno.
>Havildar Singh, in an effort to buy his men time to fall back, drew his Kirpan dagger, charged into the horde, and sacrificed himself.
>Seven hours into the battle, the Sikhs continued to stick it to the Orakazai.
>Tribesmen eventually found a breach. They blitzed through only to find a determined handful of pissed-off Sikhs standing there with fixed bayonets and vicious scowls.
>Signalman Gurmukh Singh, up in his tower, is believed to, when he ran out of bullets, fixed his bayonet and charged down into the fray shouting the battle cry of the Sikhs – "He who cries 'God is Truth' is ever victorious."
>British troops reached the position later, they found 21 dead Sikhs and somewhere between 180 and 800 dead tribesmen. Though the tribesman say they lost 180 in the assault, the other causalities were from British retaking the post.
>>46729462
Sorry I misread it
>>46728824
What I'm saying is that these images are not representative of how those people dressed during the 9th-14th century. Heck, a book written during the time of the British colonization isn't even representative of the people who lived in the region back then.
Like Sikhism as a faith only came about during the early modern period.
What's more, the Middle Ages pretty much were the Wild West of Europe.
>>46729836
>Our policy was always to have a good and friendly relations with everyone. But we never have accepted being oppressed and we will never accept it
>Despite being outnumbered, outgunned, outsupplied and underfunded throughout his entire career as a military commander the "Lion of Panjshir" consistently managed to seize victory against seemingly impossible odds.
>He spoke five languages fluently, studied at several religious and secular institutions, was a talented volleyball and soccer player, and eventually was accepted into the Engineering program at Kabul University.
>In 1978 when all of a sudden the Communists took control of Afghanistan, Massoud organized a resistance movement in his native Panjshir
>Ahmad Shah Massoud organized a rebel force known as the "Mujahideen" to combat the invasion of Soviet forces into Afghanistan as the Communist regime started facing widespread rebellion
>For nine years his band of rebels battled the mighty Soviet Union. Six times the Russians launched major offensives into Panjshir, assaulting the region with over 12,000 men, tanks, and helicopters, but they were never able to gain a decisive victory over Massoud's mujahideen.
>No sooner had the Communists fallen that Massoud found himself embroiled in a struggle with the Pakistan-funded Taliban for the future of Afghanistan. The Afghan Civil War had begun.
>>46729614
Post smelly goatfuckers who don't cut or wash their hair
Ftfy
>>46729858
All of what you said is true. I just posted photos of the same peoples from the 19th century. That's it.
I'd daresay though, that a radical change in dress can't come in a period of 100 years in a pre-industrial society
>>46729859
>For several years, Massoud and his pro-Democracy rebels (known to the West as the "Northern Alliance") fought with the Taliban and Al-Qaida, and Afghanistan was a fractured nation. He bravely continued to lead his guerilla warriors into battle until he was killed in a suicide attack by Al-Qaida operatives posing as foreign journalists. He died on September 9th, 2001 - just two days before the attack on the World Trade Center.
>President Karzai's first action was to declare Ahmad Shah Massoud a national hero in recognition of his heroic actions as defender of Afghanistan for over twenty years. Massoud, the "Martyred Commander", was a tireless warrior who fought for democracy, tolerance, and freedom for his people.
>>46729888
Nice b8 - the northern alliance were the main heroin growers and boy-fuckers
>>46729902
>the world is black and white
>>46729309
>impetuous
>hasty disposition
>fight-ready
>aggression
>phlegmatic
>>46729309
> He is independent and he is self-willed; but he is reasonable, peaceably inclined if left alone, and not difficult to manage
I guess
>>46728943
Good luck, there has never ever been peace in Afghanistan.
>>46730049
i heard there were China whores there for both the military and the occupied.
>>46729921
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/afghanistan.drugstrade
Note the date
>>46730082
Yea, Massoud was dead before that date.
>>46729859
i thought USA backed the Taliban or its precursor to act as proxy to fight off soviet invasion
>>46730145
The USA backed the ISI, the ISI decided where the funds would go. The ISI decided to provide weapons to the mullahs and their underlings who operated in the refugee camps for the Pashtun people, look up Gulbuddin Hekmatyar
"Afghanistan" eh?
It would be a shame if something were to happen to it heh heh
>>46729057
That sounds kind of like Malifaux
>>46729462
I didn't know the Sicks had intocables too.
>>46728691
nice
