Who was in the wrong here?
>>46725140
Nothing.
It got nerds to buy millions of dollars worth of plastic molded to look neat.
>>46725140
you for posting this crap
>>46725140
Both of them.
This is the Kobayashi Maru of settings.
There is no right answer here. We are either an empire of genocidal fanatics who rule through fear and ignorance, or we are the very reason that they should be ignorant and afraid.
>>46725140
Depends on what you see as right.
On one side, there's the God Emperor, who in trying to build an empire of peace, failed to warn his sons about the dangers of the Warp and the Chaos Gods. He could be viewed as in the wrong for neglecting to inform his sons of this.
On the other, there's his son who fell to the ruinous powers, acting in his own interests. He could be viewed as wrong for having disobeyed his father.
But I'd have to side with the Emps on this one. Ollanius Pius died proving who was in the wrong.
Sanguinius, he was wrong fornot knowing how to dodge
for a 40,000 year old immortal, the Emperor of Man apparently was incredibly inexperienced. Everything about the Horus Heresy stemmed from his rookie leadership mistakes.
>Be ancient alium and most powerful psyker in the galaxy
>Build genocidal space empire
>Use superhumans to conquer the stars
>Don't fucking train them or explain the terrible things you've seen in your dealings with Chaos
>Just send them out randomly to bring worlds under your dominion
>Retreat to your lab and build a SUPER SEKRIT FORBIDDEN PATHWAY
>Ignore warning from space elves that your sons are growing corrupt
>Ignore warning from one son that the other is going to betray you
>Get fucked up when it all falls apart
The Emperor was a fucking retard
>>46725140
The writers.
Because the levels of bullshit they had to apply to make this setting possible reached critical mass so many times we can't even count that high.
>>46725140
Whose helmet is that next to Sanguinius?
>>46725486
Belongs to adeader version of one of the cunts standing behind the Emperor.
>>46725417
>>46725354
But honestly, is there any way to actually write a character like the Emperor in any "realistic" way?
He's over 40,000 years old, has been around guiding all of fucking humanity, warred against and then established the largest human organization ever to exist in the form of the Imperium and stood up against evil gods to save mankind.
Asdrubael Vect is another character I don't think can properly be written about in a fashion that would do his 10,000 year long diabolical existence any credit. His mind is described as a labyrinthine dimension of plots, schemes and failsafes so complex it rivals the realm of Tzeentch himself. How do you write from the viewpoint of a being like that? How do you get inside the head of a character so complex he can only be described from afar, in sweeping terms? Can that be done? I'm genuinely asking. Anyway, the Emperor is the same way but even more ridiculous.
I'm not trying to defend the retarded shit Black Library has put out with him, but really, they were screwed before they started when they had to paint the Emperor out to be the brilliant, charismatic, god-like defender of humanity but still had to make him fallible enough to allow the Heresy to happen. Naturally his mistakes look far more unforgivable when measured next to how intelligent and capable he should be, considering who and what he is.
>>46725517
he is 40 000 years old ? 40K Start counting years After Jesus like IRL no ?
Did they knew each other ? i didn't knew it was that old.
>>46725552
I thought it was implied in the lore that Big E *was* Jesus. And like, every other prophet.
>>46725552
It's ambiguous whether he truly is that old. If you subscribe to him being so old then he was jesus and a bunch of other people he masqueraded as, guiding humanity throughout history.
>>46725552
I'm pretty sure it's old fluff but the Emperor was born in central Anatolia before Christ. Supposedly he was important figures throughout human history, guiding mankind in the form of famous and influential leaders, including Jesus and such.
But again I think that's old lore that might have been changed or contradicted by the HH series by now. There's been so damn many books they might have.
>>46725517
Path of the Archon does a good job with Vect. His every action speaks of a ruthless millennial old tyrant ready condemn 99% of all his subjects if it means staying in power over the remaining 1%. The fucker doesn't hold back for anyone or anything.
>>46725517
>is there any way to actually write a character like the Emperor in any "realistic" way?
Inquisition War did it. It is easily the best part of that entire godforsaken series, and quite possibly my favorite bit of fiction to come out of GW's novels period.
We need some in-verse opinions.
>‘Then why do you still fight?’ Abaddon’s glower remained, his teeth clenched and his eyes raw in their open glare.
>‘Because I have nothing else. I was born to fight, and forged in the fires of war. I am Astartes. I fight because it is right that we fight. The Emperor abandoned the Great Crusade, and demanded humanity pave the way for His ascension to godhood. I don’t expect to topple Him from the Golden Throne, but such hubris, such evil, must always be opposed.’
-Night Lords Omnibus
>>46725195
This.
Everyone who participated was either uncaring and arrogant, misled and ignorant, or too pure for this world and so died as sacrificial lambs.
>>46725628
I'm about halfway through Path of the Incubus and Vect hasn't been in it yet, but hearing that makes me want to get to the last book now.
Vect is a character I found myself wanting to see more of ever since the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex came out. I'd love a book series detailing his early days as he establishes the Cult of the Black Heart and slowly rises through the tiers of Commorragh through sheer determination, ambition and utter ruthlessness.
He's always got a plan to stay in power, and honestly after 10,000 years I don't know why any fucking Dark Eldar would be stupid enough to fuck with him anymore in any way. It's made pretty clear he has a plan to erase any rival (aside from Lady Malys so far) that gets in his way, and doesn't even think twice about destroying entire sub-realms to do so. His hold on the city is absolute, but he keeps Commorragh together.
I just really like Vect. Wish we could still use him in the newest codex.
>>46725704
The whole series is pretty good. I love the little twist at the end.
>>46725690
More in-verse opinions about the Emperor who is the REAL bad guy.
This one is about a Black Templar (formerly Imperial Fist) and his old Iron Warrior friend having a debate.
>>46725748
>Kalkator took refuge from the energy wave as it hit the building. When it passed he stood, and to his amazement found himself looking down upon a field of dead orks. The Dreadnought marched across the corpses towards the fort, bellowing pieties, surrounded by his warriors singing hymns for the Emperor. Magneric stopped below the walls and angled his glacis upward.
>‘What is this?’ said Kalkator. ‘The cult of the Emperor as god has grown so strong it has you in its clutches?’
>‘What of it? I will not deny my faith! See, warsmith.’ Magneric raised a mighty metal fist and rotated upon his waist gimbal, showing the devastation of the battlefield triumphantly. ‘How can you deny it? You have witnessed the glory of the Emperor first hand, and that the strength of the Emperor is paramount over all things! Even sorely wounded upon His Golden Throne, He wields a power that cannot be denied! Nothing can stop Him, nor those who serve Him truly with faith within their hearts. One day He will rid the galaxy of all evil, for unlike the creatures you threw your lot in with He is just. Justice comes for you, Kalkator, the Emperor’s justice, and all your wicked betrayers will be destroyed for your treachery. Look upon this battlefield, look upon the slaughter. This was done by His will alone. That is why we follow Him.’
>Kalkator gripped at the parapet, looking down on the enemy who, so long ago, had been a friend.
>‘I am genuinely at a loss for words. Do your loyalist brothers know you have caught the madness of the puling herds and have turned your back upon the Imperial Truth, the lie you fought so hard to protect? That you are casting it aside for the greatest heresy of all?’
>‘The Emperor protected us with His lie,’ said Kalkator. ‘He protected us further by denying His godhood. We have had the scales lifted from our eyes. He is a god. The proof is around us everywhere, here on this battleground.’
>>46725756
>Lights appeared in the sky, growing brighter. The Thunderhawks were coming.
>‘You are abandoning everything you vowed to honour, and you call me a traitor?’ said Kalkator. ‘Such irony is a rare thing, Magneric. Do all your warriors follow this insane creed?’
>‘Each and every one,’ said Magneric proudly.
>‘Then you are treading the same deluded path as Lorgar. How will the other Space Marines look upon this great naiveté? Common humanity already worships the Emperor, and I say again, against His express wishes. All that is, Magneric, is an expression of their weakness and desire to be dominated, and proof of the Emperor’s desire to be worshipped despite His protestations. It appears Lorgar was but a little too early with his devotion. What would your Emperor make of you now? Would He hold out a hand for you to kiss while you grovel upon your knees? Or would He smash your face in with a mailed fist as He did to Lorgar?’
>‘We would take either gladly,’ said Magneric, ‘if it meant our Lord would walk among men once more.’
>Engine noise rumbled. The extraction craft approached, seven of them, and began to set down one after the other in the wreckage of the field. Kalkator’s Thunderhawks opened their hatches, and his men began to leave the building. The Black Templars made no move to stop them. They remained kneeling, heads bowed in prayer as the Iron Warriors passed between them.
>‘Such devotion. Perhaps the Emperor is a god, after all, if He can inspire sane men to worship Him so,’ said Kalkator.
>‘Embrace this truth, and your soul will be saved!’ said Magneric eagerly.
>Kalkator laughed. Before he left the roof to join his warriors aboard their craft, he shouted down to Magneric. ‘I am not going to convert to your pathetic creed, Magneric. For if I cannot trust a man who lies, I trust a god who does so even less.’
>>46725777
>Ralstan came to Magneric’s side, his wargear dripping gore. Kalkator’s gunships were taking off and heading for the sky. The Black Templars were preparing to leave, honouring their dead with silent prayer as they gathered up the wargear of the fallen and extracted gene-seed to safeguard against the future.
>‘We could order them shot down as soon as they break atmosphere,’ said the castellan.
>Magneric’s torso tilted backwards, watching the Iron Warriors gunships recede, becoming glowing balls of fire rising high into the night.
>‘No. Let the hunt begin anew. We honour the oaths we make in battle, castellan, or we are no better than they.’
-Throneworld
The Iron Warrior makes good points. The Emperor is a shit.
>>46725748
>>46725756
That's.... actually kind of cool.
This is from those "Beast Arises" Ork books right?
I kind of like seeing the actual transition from the Imperium being Fedora-Tipping atheists to religious fanatics. That's kinda fun.
Also fun seeing how they're working in justifications for the fact that Chaos and Loyalists can ally on the tabletop now.
>>46725791
Black templars are nutters. That's old news.
even by 40k, most chapters are still keeping the mentality that the emperor is just a badass dude, which is why the ecclesiarchy hates them.
They can't seem to write a consistent personality for the emperor desu.
>>46726186
When you have a setting as big as 40K and have multiple different authors working on it, you're bound to get things mixed up.
>>46725486
a dead Justarian termy
>>46725354
>>46725552
He's more than 40,000 years old, sincee 40k is the 41st millennium and in the fluff he was born in (iirc) the eighth or ninth millennium before Christ. So he's like 50,000 years old.
>>46725704
Malys has divine/supernatural assistance and yet both Malys and Vect are absolutely, 100% fucked (see also 7th edition codex). But I don't know if I would really blame Vect for what's happening currently with the Gate, it's more like an inevitable result of the Dark Kin's inherent traits.
>>46725140
Everyone and their father.
>>46726430
What did he mean by this?
>>46726461
He was implying the op was fishing for replies. The meme is kind of silly since most people would like a reply, that's why we're talking to other people and not just saying our piece to a lamp.
>>46725140
>let the galaxy burn
what did he mean by this?
>>46725140
the only true answer is chaos
chaos is in the wrong
>>46725588
In one book Corax who can see through glamour sees the Emperor as he should be which is just a tiny shriveled up old man.
>>46725628
The problem with the Emeorr is't age, it's implied he may be a gestalt and GW writers have mentioned in the past that portraying the thought processes of a being who exists both in the real world/warp at the same time would be impossble.
>>46725833
doesn't help their founder went mad (but was right) because Dorn is an utter cock who can't grasp things beyond the physical.
>>46727847
Sigi went mad?
>>46727143
"What did X mean by this?" is a maymay
>>46726264
>Two others he has to constantly keep an eye on in case they need to go, too
Who are these two? I assume one is Angron, but the other? Lorgar, maybe? Or are they both Alpharius and Omegon?
>>46725552
I always thought 40k starts counting from the time mankind first started exploring space. Like maybe when Gagarin got to space.
>>46728036
We've seen a lot of hints suggesting that their dating system possesses the same standard as ours, that being in AD. Of course, no Imperial knows exactly what they're counting off, though I'm sure there's no shortage of particularly religious theories.
>>46727989
Lorgar or Magnus I would say. the emps didn´t like that warpwizardry shit
>>46727896
Kinda, Dorn fucking lost it on him when he revealed he had turned down the retribution fleet mission on Keelers advice as it would alter history.
After that point, Dorn keeps him on as to not foster dissension but provatley treated him like shit...so Sig starts tp become more fanatical while now starting to believe in the Emperor, presumably his destroyred relationship with Dorn is why Templars hate witches.
>>46728250
Thanks, that makes sense, though Kalkator up there does have a point about the Templars' devotion being more than a little ironic
>>46727989
Angron and Edge Lord Cruze, both of them where unstable
>>46725417
>Implying everything isn't going just as the Emperor planned
>>46729137
>Implying Tzeentch, a literal incarnation of plots and divination, as well as being more powerful than the Emperor at the time, wasn't just manipulating events on such a complex level that the Emperor only looks retarded in hindsight
>>46725140
Obviously Horus. I mean you gotta be pretty fucking stupid to think a guy who serves the dark gods and wants to genocide all of humanity has a moral high ground over the emperor.
>>46725517
The only way you can ever give someone who lived that long with that many plans any sort of justification for things going badly in their plans is to have a cop out that amounts to "literally everything (even the bad things) was within their plan and it's continued to go the way they were expecting long after their presumed death".
At best you can just throw a giant fucking curveball at them like "and then for no reason the fucking planet they were standing on blew up and they died didn't see that one coming did you asshole".
>Asking questions
>>46725585
Big E did mess up a bit when he went on that desert rampage fucking goats and 9 year olds if you ask me.
>>46729342
Holy shit.
Tzeentch's greatest plot was so perfet we didn't even realise that he had already succeeded.
>>46729342
I like you anon. This theory is now my Canon.
>>46725140
Horus. GW isn't clever enough for this to be a philosophical problem. It is exactly what it looks like.
>>46727954
sssshhhhh
>>46725140
>in the wrong
The LG one loved mankind and didn't want them eaten by monsters.
The CE one joined the monsters - not for personal power - but just the promise of limitless power.
Men breed quite enough monsters on our own. We don't need no foreign invaders takin r jerbz.
>>46725140
Everyone is wrong in 40K.
EVERYONE
>>46730988
Don't kinkshame anon, he's hundreds of thousands of years old, there's probably very little that gets his rocks off now, even if he's sporting a constant boner.
>>46732930
What constant boner?
>>46728105
I would have thought Angron and Curze.
Lorgar was under suspicion, but did a really good job of fooling everyone when he came out of his post-Monarchia depression.
The Emperor might have had reservations about Magnus post-Nikaea, but other than that his loyallty was unquestioned until he shattered the wards over the Imperial Palace
But Angron - the Emperor knew Angron was nuts the moment he met him, and the World Eaters were sanctioned more than once for using the nails and for slaughtering people.
Similarly Curze - the other Primarchs thought he was unhinged pretty much from day 1.
>>46733351
The one that he has of course.
>>46725140
They were both autists and equally fucked everything up
>>46733351
> he is a skeleton
> made of bones
> constant boner
>>46727804
>In one book Corax who can see through glamour sees the Emperor as he should be which is just a tiny shriveled up old man.
Then how come the Emperor can falcon punch anyone into the next galaxy?
I will give everyone a picture that will shed some light on the Emperor in the HH series. Think about it. And can someone post that bit from Inquisition War? The one where the Emperor explains what's it like being God, and the Imperium in a nutshell?
>>46740174
I found that bit from the Inquisition War depressing. The Emps many personalities arguing with himself and talking about when he killed Horus it forced him to permanently shed all compassion and love for humanity.
>>46740277
But he sheds tears. Call me stupid but when it says every human warrior could it possibly include Chaos cultists and the Chaos Space Marines themselves? Could he be shedding tears over the fact that they lived a life of slavery to darkness?
Where would humanity be by the 41st millennium without emps? Techno barbarian things?
>>46725140
games work shop for retconing the best character in the lore.
>>46741152
Maybe extinct.
Maybe better off,
Probably techno-barbarian's though. They might have ended up under the complete control of the Mechanicus though.
>>46741231
>They might have ended up under the complete control of the Mechanicus though.
You know, with all those alternative fan settings /tg/ loves to spawn I'd be surprised if they haven't made this yet.
>>46741231
kinda surprised the Mechanicus didn't take over Terra or Earth (we still don't know if they are really the same) before
>>46741336
You best be joking me. Of course they're the same.
>>46741412
This thread has not convinced me that Terra and Earth are the same so I'm going to assume they aren't
>>46741464
You know what's Latin for earth?
>>46741464
What about the fact that one of the Emperor's biggest rivals was called the Pan-Pacific Coalition? Or the fact that his Palace is in the Himalayas? Or the fact that they literally say that Terra used to be called Earth in the codices?
>>46741513
>>46741514
There is literally no way to prove that "Terra" is planet Earth.
>>46741551
You're trolling or dense.
>>46741626
Says the guy who posted something that doesn't mention Earth at all
>>46741723
>Central Anatolia
>not mentioning planet Earth
I want you to consider a few things. First thing that same book mentioned many of the shamans who created the Emperor remembered the dawn of the human race. Don't you think that would have to happen on Earth? And the second thing consider Titan one of the moons of Saturn happens to be near Terra, and you know that fourth planet away from our sun? You know that red planet? Good. It's Mars. Home of those wacky red robed technophiles.
>>46741859
That's a whole of a hell a lot of reaching there anon. If this were a court case it would be thrown out because of reasonable doubt
>>46741937
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Terra Read this and also consider the fact that the Iron Hands' Terran marines came from Texas and Italy, and the Dusk Raiders were Britbongs.
>>46742023
>Texas and Italy
That makes no fucking sense
>>46742107
The Emperor wanted to see what would happen if he got Texans and Italians to fight as brothers in arms. He was not disappointed.
>>46725417
>Trusting space elves
>Even once
>>46742023
Well then explain why Terra's moon is called "Luna" and not The Moon.
>>46742252
Consider the facts that Khârn's Russian and everyone speaks Space Latin.
>>46742164
More like brothers in hands.
Any time I see well written, sympathetic traitor marines it makes me sad that they HAVE to be chaos marines.
Any sympathetic elements about them feeling betrayed or whatnot are generally undermined by the fact that they go and work for the cartoonish rape gods of fuckery.
>>46742311
Oh you.
>>46742023
Which marines came from Australia?
>>46742316
I feel the opposite.
I'm frustrated every time I see sympathetic Chaos Marine's because it undermines them as cartoonish rape villains of fuckery.
I want my bad guys bad, and my good guys also pretty bad. The setting invented the word grimdark for fucks sake.
>>46742349
The Imperial Fists and Word Bearers recruited from everywhere, but which legion exclusively recruited from Australia is unknown.
>>46742414
>the stricken from the record marines were all australian
>>46742432
You think they funposted too much for Big E's tastes?
>>46742480
Big E was probably Moot.
>>46742432
Canadians are worse shitposters in my experience, then again the only flag board I go on is /sp/
>>46742500
I don't think they're banned/purged. The Emperor remembered one important thing about Australians on how to deal with the Aussie Legion. Horrible internet connections.
>>46742574
>the [REDACTED] chapters were never purged, they're just stuck on some remote fuckoff planet in the middle of nowhere space with such shitty astropaths they can't get word out
>>46742621
The psychic build up is so great it's somehow the real reason the Throne's failing.
>>46742349
>>46742414
None. Australia belongs to the Navigator houses. Their home is described as resting atop an island continent.
>>46742669
Why Australia of all places?
>>46742621
If you read the fluff every time one of these legions was redacted the Space Smurf ranks swelled.
Wonder why that was........
>>46742694
Australia is always a radioactive wasteland full of mutants in fiction dude
>>46742694
because GW is British, Australia is a prison colony, and navigators are useful mutants. also >>46742735
>>46742735
>In fiction
>>46741206
For the longest time I never understood /tg/'s love for Pius. I always thought "Yeah, so what? he's just some asshole guard guy that got killed."
For some reason this picture made me get it. Pius is a fucking hero
>>46742851
I'm still pissed Mad Max Fury Road wasn't nominated for best documentary
>>46742928
>Max chuckling calmly in an interview talking about the time he was strapped to the hood of his own stolen car driving into a giant sandstorm
>>46733353
Curze was already under sanction by the time of the Horus Heresy, something about attacking the Imperial Fists and destroying his own homeworld.
>>46743196
Which just proves that Ferrus Manus was a complete retard to trust a guy who's legion went renegade decades ago and has been operating outside the Imperial chain of command to be in his reserve.
>>46743141
I loved the part where the Australian religious beliefs were shown. So many Australians try to get to Vahalla, but I doubt they get witnessed.
>>46725140
The guy wearing severed heads and faces.
>>46741206
Seriously, why would they do this?
So Sanguinius kinda went out like a bitch didn't he?
>>46725140
Sanguinius, sleeping while there's a meeting between the Emperor and the warmaster! If he wasnt so pretty he'd be censured!
Wake up Sangui! W-Wake up!I miss you!
>>46743297
do what, retcon the assault on terra?
Pius himself was one of the many retcons and inconsistencies surrounding the creation of the heresy. He wasn't even in the original few versions of the story, and only present in a single white dwarf article.
A cool bit of fluff, but /tg/ blows shit out of proportion.
>>46725160
Accept the might of your /v/eddit colonial masters.
>>46725354
Was He a virgin?
>>46744872
Look up the awfully named sensei. They are the immortal alleged chilldren of the emperor. He sired them throughout history. The jury is still out on whether this and the starchild is still canon because it's old fluff and the theory that the emperor is a perpetual is the new hotness.
>>46725140
I'm gonna side with the guy who doesn't have someone's face stapled to his armor.
>>46742349
The Emperor's Crocodiles.
Obviously.
>>46743375We all do Anon. We all do.
>>46742107
>texas
You mean Chile?
>>46740354
Not canon.
The Emperor doesn't have eyes anymore.
>>46745190
What if those faces and heads were from bad guys? Way to judge a book by its cover. Geez.
>>46745631
Good people don't desecrate corpses. Or wear faces.
Does anyone have that image that says something like
>in older times men build marvellous things for the benefit of all
>we are much wiser now
over the imperial Aquila?
>>46727804
That's only one aspect of him. Corax sees several forms of the Emperor, from a towering giant in golden armor made of pure psychic energy, to the dude in a robe that talks to him. And it's pointed out that each and every facet exists at once, and the Emperor conversing with him directly is just a small part of the whole that he could spare to talk.
Is it true that the Dark Angels purposely didn't show up to protect Terra?
>>46745718
Gotchufam
>>46725195
>>46725692
>>46726340
Spotted the Taufags.
>>46725791
But the Chaos Gods are even worse, and that's some accomplishment.
Immaterium really needs some serious plumbing, it would solve like half the problems of WH40k. Not sure if it's even possible, though. And, well, you could argue that solving half the problems of WH40k would just make the remaining half of the problems actually not waste their time with the problems you just solved, and get stuff done instead.
Horus, because the god emperor is the on the right.
>>46725303
I thought Horus choked him to death
>>46742023
> albanians
are you fucking kidding me?!
>>46742023
The emps sure loved Albania
>>46752858
>>46752923
In the 29th millenium Albania became a superpower after removing Đuveč from premises.
>>46741464
>"Adeptus Terra, also known as the ancient Priesthood of Earth"
>"Adeptus Terra. The Masters of the Earth."
>"This check number is necessary due to temporal distortions which affect ships in the Warp as well as worlds which are remote, or isolated, from Earth."
>"0/1 Earth standard date. Referring to an event which happened within the Sol system of Segmentum Solar."
>"2 Direct. Source in direct psychic contact with Earth when date reference was made."
>"3 Indirect. The source is in direct psychic contact with a class 2 source, but not Earth."
>"For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth."
>"Terra, the fabled cradle of humanity, the mythical seat of the immortal Emperor and the spiritual heart of the Imperium,"
>"Holy Terra, the cradle of Humanity and the starting point for an Ernpire that contains countless billions of souls."
-6-7e rulebook
>"Who remembers the wars that split the Earth asunder"
>"Who would recognize the names of Earth's ancient ruins"
>"Terra, cradle of the human race."
>"The Adeptus Terra numbers billions upon billions of individuals on Earth alone."
-5e rulebook
I agree. There's nothing linking the two together. I couldn't find a single line that says "Earth is Terra, stupid."
>>46754081
You are literally retarded
>>46741464
>anon is still biting this bait
>>46725140
git gud Sangi
>>46742500
Who is Hiro?
>>46758916
Our new Tau overlords.
>>46725140
>‘Let us talk of Nurth, my lord,’ said Pech, ‘and of how we finish this war.’
>Namatjira smiled. ‘This compliance,’ he corrected.
>‘It is a war, sir,’ Pech replied, ‘as I’m sure the stalwart soldiers of the Imperial Army would attest. Let us not dress it up in political terms. Let us not skip over their sacrifices.’
>Major General Dev and Lord Wilde of the Torrent coughed to suggest their gratitude at Pech’s acknowledgement of their efforts. Some of their huscarls and high officers clacked their swords against their shields in approval.
>Namatjira snapped up a hand quickly for silence.
>‘Of course it’s a war, sir,’ the Lord Commander said, acid in his tone. ‘Men die. My men die. But this is still an Action of Compliance, or are you questioning the Emperor’s design?’
>Pech shook his head. ‘No, lord. I appreciate that the Emperor upholds a teleological scheme for the future of man, and I will endeavour to uphold it.’
>‘He chases a utopian ideal,’ Herzog put in.
>‘He wishes to unify and perfect humanity through the intense application of martial violence,’ said Pech.
>‘We have no quarrel with that approach,’ said Herzog. ‘It is the only proven way man’s destiny has ever been advanced.’
>‘Even if utopian goals are ultimately counterintuitive to species survival,’ Pech added quickly.
>‘Any political ambition that is inherently impossible to achieve is ultimately corrupting,’ said Herzog.
>‘You cannot engender, or force to be engendered, a state of perfection,’ said Pech. ‘That line of action leads only to disaster, because perfection is an absolute that cannot be attained by an imperfect species.’
>>46762004
>‘Utopia is a dangerous myth,’ said Herzog, ‘and only a fool would chase it.’
>‘It is better to manage and maintain the flaws of man on an ongoing basis,’ said Pech.
>‘We say this only to recognise the blood debt of the Imperial Army, that suffers and dies, resolutely, in the pursuit of that goal,’ said Herzog.
>There was a long silence. Just as the blades began to batter the shields again, Alpharius said, ‘I encourage my men to explore the philosophy of bloodshed, lord. I like them to understand the intellectual structure that informs their killing. The Emperor, my love and my life, seeks to set mankind in place as the uppermost species of the galaxy. I will not dispute that ambition, neither will my captains. We simply recognise the procrustean methods with which he enforces that dream. A utopian ideal is a fine thing to chase, and to measure one’s achievements against. But it cannot, ultimately, be achieved.’
>‘Are you suggesting the Emperor’s design is... wrong?’ Namatjira asked.
>‘Not in the slightest,’ replied Alpharius.
>>46756401
>1V1 ME HORUS FUKKEN TRAITOR SCRUB
>FUKKEN CHAOS OP NERF NOW
the fact that you had to fucking ask this questions... its.... extra heresy
>>46727498
Is chaos true freedom or does the lack of liberty result in less freedom for the weak?
Is true freedom to go about your business unimpaired by the actions of others or to be totally unfettered in your decisions?
>>46762021
>Alpharius dreamed the impossible dream
Something seems a bit off about that.
>>46763000
Chaos is essentially full-blown anarcho-capitalism plus magic and demons, with all the horror that implies
>>46763000
>Is chaos true freedom
Of course.
>>46743375
Stop I wasn't ready for these feels
>>46763060
Chaos in a nutshell
>>46725140
The emps isnt a saint by any means but his path doesnt end up in me getting salt rapped by chaos demons for eternity.
>>46743375pls anon.
>>46725195
I dont see the equivalence in a shitty fascist empire forced into it to stave off extinction
and
Literally demon apocalypse where youre going to wind up in a near certain fate worse than death.
Im a huge chaos fag and dont even like imperals that much anymore but lets not pretend the imperium and chaos are equivalent options for people, chaos is objectively FAR worse.
Ones shitty and fascist in a desperate attempt to by time as humans evolve to a state where they can solve all this bullshit.
The other just wants to demon rape everything while being too caught up in sibling rivalry to even really watch for more than a moment.
The imperium still has good men and women of character and valor doing their best in a monster of a situation.
Chaos has no equivalents to that, theyre all murderfuck fanatics who want to do something terrible to you in the name of some god or another.
Not even close to equal.
>>46725140
The writters.
>>46763735
Let's not have any illusions about the Imperium though.
People often try to say that they're "doing their best" or "what they have to to survive" but the books outright state they're backwards, corrupt, and stagnant. They could be doing a lot more, but it wouldn't be grimdark then.
>>46764772
You have two options citizen, defend this bureaucratic, stagnant and utterly corrupt hell hole we call Imperium or humanity becomes extinct or enslaved to the will of dark blasphemous gods that care even less for you than the high lords.
Choose wisely.
>>46763735
that pic is so metal- since 40k was from the 80s does each faction represent a genre of metal?
Chaos- Death Metal
Eldar- Hair metal
D.Eldar- goth metal
Orks- thrash metal
what about the others?
>>46765221
I choose Murderous Mechanical Mummy Messiah.
>>46765400
Loyalists represent religious choir chanting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6c5RZL9Skw
>>46765661
Not bad, but I raise you an even better chant from an even better GW thing than that movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt1M8iZNHpQ
>>46765400
Imperium is generic heavy metal/industrial metal
Tau is kpop.
>>46765732
Say what you want about the Ultramarines movie, the soundtrack and the voice acting was godlike.
>>46765432
>>46727847
>Magic pain glove, I am lost
Show me the way.
>Magic pain gloves cuts off hand
>Your service is no longer required
>>46765400
>Imperium
Power metal
>necrons
Doom metal
>deldar
Black metal
>tau
Prog. Metal?
>>46765221
>Let's improve the quality of life for the citizens.
>No can do. 0.74% drop in productivity predicted by our cogitators.
>That's groxshit. Imma peacefully protest.
>Protest ends in bloodshed and flames.
>One thing lead to another.
>YFW you're firebombing the Arbites HQ to steal a janitor's uniform to plant a bomb beneath the Imperial Governor's bedroom to assassinate him in order tp access the archives to...
>Just as planned.
>>46725160
What did he mean by this?
>>46767031
Memes keep getting weirder
>>46725140
Lorgar.
>>46767624
This is the correct answer.
>>46767624
>Not Erebus
>>46725140
The Imperium for eventually believing that their anti-Horus propaganda was real history and making the Emperor's remains into a fucking idol.Praise Lorgar
>>46742733
Because Roboute was the only primarch literate enough to research what words 'logistics', 'strategy' and 'avoiding casualties' mean then the only one smart enough to apply them when his efforts to educate his brothers, especially Alpharius, failed. How stupid you need to be to be all butthurt because someone pointed out you waste time, money and the lives of innocent humans to turn planets into useless burned out shitholes contributing nothing but expenses and problems to Imperium?
>>46745209
made me exhale air out of my nose sharply well done
>>46768487
BUUUUUURRRRRNNNNNN!!!!!!!
>>46763735
See, you keep saying "chaos is just rapedemons raping" as if this is *worse* than the uberfascist 1984 Imperium.
It's better. Much better. It's not *good*, I'm not that edgy, but it's better.
>>46765221
The High Lords fall to chaos at the drop of a hat
The bureaucracy falls to chaos at the drop of a hat
The fucking inquisition falls to chaos at the drop of a hat
The bureaucratic, stagnant, corrupt hellhole is more of a detriment than a help to its own survival because muh grimderp.
>>46725140
One thing I never understood about this was GW's decision to have the emperor be mortally wounded. All this fluff building up to him being some god of order, both in the physical world and the immaterium, and then he dies to an inferior specimen with daddy issues. So then he clearly was jut a mortal man?
I understand why they couldn't keep the emperor around, since that wouldn't be grimdark enough, but what if the emperor just retreated into the void or immaterium or whatever? Simply sick and tired of humanity's bullshit, or perhaps losing hope after having to slay his sons and brethren because the old ones fucked up. Was it really a plan to have him worshipped as a God to starve the other chaos gods? If that was so, then he should be as active and present as the other gods right? Considering how many humans there are believing in him. It just all seems a perpetual mess, to have him be "in a state between life and death" and "the golden throne failing" for 10 000 fucking years without anything actually happening.
tldr;
why
The Emperor for dragging out human suffering
>>46770514
As opposed to just getting it over with and the species committing mass-suicide?
>>46770730
That's what the Necrons did and they seem to be better people for it.
>>46770766
The few that are still people.
Unless you count having no motive will as part of being a good "person."
>>46770817
The Necrons did and they're all the better for it. You see what happens when you give people free will...heresies..slaaneshis...trashbecome robot skeleton
>>46770730
It's the only way to fix everything.
t. Cabal
>>46770896
but the necrons do have free will- in a limited sense- Trayzyn the infinite chooses to collect
>>46725417
>Implying it was not the Emperors Plan all along
>The Emperor is a creature of the warp like all primarchs which is mentioned several times in the Horus Heresy books
>A powerful psyker capable of predicting a birth of a chaos god to launch his galactic conquest
>Knowing he would win and have untold billions and billions worshiping him on a daily basis for millenia.
>Chaos gods combined are only having in the best case scenarion one tenth of the worshipers than the Emperor
>Number of believers and the deeds they do for the deity gives power in the warp.
>That moment when you realise the Emporor is now more powerful than all 4 chaos gods combined, but he doesn't want to bitch slap them like the bitches they are because that would lessen the number and acts of worship that makes him even stronger
>the darker the galaxy gets the stronger the Emperor gets
>>46771409
I don't get why that bit of fluff keeps getting shared. Like oooooooh a radical inquisitor hired an alien it's not like that's ever been done before.
Am I missing something here?
>>46772338
>I don't get why that bit of fluff keeps getting shared.
Dunno what anyone else may have done with it, but I've only posted it once, in a recent thread. Maybe once before years ago as well, I can't remember. I just attached it to have a (very) tangentially related image, in that it's a minor alium expressing disapproval of humans and the Emperor.
>and now for the other side
>>46771743
Yes the good few intelligent ones have free will, but not the commonfolk.
It's the secret to their success
>>46772338
>someone posted a picture I've seen before?
>THERE MUST BE AN AGENDA
calm down
>>46773450
>>46770346
>When the Emperor plunged his sword into Horus, the energy of the warp flowed through the Emperor, down his sword and into Horus
>"sword"
>>46725140
Those are big guys!
>>46725140
The Emperor. He was an idiot for not striking a deal with the Chaos gods.
>>46773772
He'd have to pray they don't alter it further.
>>46742735
>>46773577
For you
