Not gonna lie, I'm genuinely fucking amazed. That price is amazing.
>>46708675
I'm not entirely sure if you mean the price is good or outrageous.
Kinda reminds me of the old adeptus titanicus box.
>>46708675
"Boardgame" with 2 pieces and 2 ruins.
So it's basically a super-expensive adeptus titanicus with shittier rules in a ridiculous scale.
Good for people who want 2 knights for cheaper I guess.
>>46708675
>MFW you pay that box $120
>mfw GW is still making £80 out of it, and people actually suck GW dick for being so generous
>>46708675
>Amazing price for plastic made in China.
Wow the guy at GW marketing are actually so good they make you believe it's cheap.
Next what, McDonalds is tasty ?
>>46708869
Except that actually made some sense as a stand-alone game. Still, nice that they're continuing to come up with some legitimately decent discounts.
>>46708869
Are those Heroic scale or Epic scale?
>>46708675
No
Fuck Knights
Fuck Gargantuans
Fuck Super Heavies
and FUCK what they've done to 40k.
Now the game is all about who can kill the other guy's huge dude first. They made troops somehow matter even LESS than they used to and have removed any sort of reason no not bring HUGE MC LARGE and his stupidly inflated stats and weapons.
>>46708913
>Company in Trying To Make Money Shock
>"We thought they just wanted to give us cool stuff" say anguished fans
>>46708959
Do you actually have a problem with BS5 Renegade firing 24 S6 Ap3 Rending shot + having Twinlinked Autocannon Skyfire Weapons ?
It's perfectly balance
>>46708975
They would actually make much more money by lowering prices and thus increasing demand.
They would still make 100% pure profit out of any box instead of 350%, and people would buy much much much more because the community would grow.
>>46709006
>renegade
>chaos
Renegades and Chaos start at BS2 or 3 desu
>>46708975
>Company in Trying To Make Money Shock
If they wanted to make a buck they would have lowered prices long ago.
High individual prices =! best possible profit
>>46709036
>Renegades and Chaos start at BS2 or 3 desu
I fall for your shitty bait but...
BS 4 base +1 for being warlord.
>>46708955
Epic. I remember using some of them for epic games later. Fucking pop up eldar falcons.
>>46709006
I remember when a single Wraithlord was an imposing centerpiece and if you had a Dreadnought on your side, it was virtually expected of you to have the two big guys square off.
>>46708902
That's really what the box is for, just like how deathwatch overkill is for the sweet genestealer arny
>>46708913
>Wayland
Enjoy your miniatures in June anon.
>>46708934
But McDonald's IS actually tasty
>>46709075
Imagine ten years later, you will play with an army of the cut-out space marines they put in the stores
For the cheap price of $800 per model made of chinese paper
>>46709075
I seem to remember the wraithlords tearing the shit out of dreads due to some MC dickery.
>>46709099
Actually i'll have them for July or august since they are all going strait to commission painter with full magnetizing.
>>46708869
Now I'd rather play that than OP's pic.
>Dem Vortex missile templates.
>>46709140
You were basically relying on your opponent flubbing his damage roll, since the dreads two attacks can't actually kill the lord in one turn.
2nd edition dreadnought fights were pretty fun, though. Had some rules for grappling that I think Warmachine took on board at the start and all of their players immediately ignored because it was a waste of focus.
>>46709075
Good old days....
>>46709133
Hierophant sized tyranid will be the norm....
Or 3D printing will be so cheap GW will die :)
>>46709140
It almost always ended with a scrapped dread and the Wraithlord not really worse for the wear.
Walkers were pretty shitty back then and the Wraithlord was strong, even for a MC. But still, if both of you had an imposing centerpiece model, letting them beat the shit out of each other was half the fun.
I actually lost my very first game of 40k to a Wraithlord. Marines vs Biel Tan, way back when. Just a friendly slugfest, in the end all we had left was a squad of Banshees and a Wraithlord on his side, and a squad of Tacticals, and a Captain with Power Claw on my side. The Banshees charged the Tacticals and got ripped to shreds, and in the end we called it because I literally couldn't wound the Wraithlord.
>>46708934
>Thinks GW plastics are made in China
>Chaos Knight
>Only different in its paintjob
I will just stick to buying Chinese knock off knights for $40 each
>>46708675
Man, I'm not a huge 40k fan, But I still get hard as fucking diamonds from the mere idea of Imperial Knights. Fucking feudal style houses who's whole purpose is to maintain the upkeep of a Giant fucking 1 man pilot robot to crush armies with.
>>46709064
So are the renegade knights now better than their loyalist counterparts since they can double up on most guns?
Good price for GW maybe. The knights that Dreamforge sells are already cheaper than the knights in this set. Every good "Deal" that GW puts out is only in comparison to what they sell their models for.
>>46709140
I wish that they would redo the Wraithlord kit with more posability.
>>46709064
Renegade Knight can't be the primary detachment so can't be your Warlord (and they use their own detachment so can't use any IK formations)
>>46709027
>They would actually make much more money by lowering prices and thus increasing demand
I guess they're testing that with releases like this and the getting started boxes- even for the two knights it's a whole lot cheaper than buying them separately.
>100% pure profit
I've actually only ever seen one serious attempt to calculate their profit margin- this guy in safety goggles: http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarseconomics.html. It puts it at more like 20% per model.
>>46709832
NP, just wait a couple months, for rules outside of the "Renegade box" mindset.
Just like cataphractii went to 40K..
Renegade will end up having their own $40 codex, with FW chaos knight etc, their is just too much money to make out of it.
>>46709832
Dual wielding will come to "loyalist" IK anyway. Like the Stormraven. It was exclusive to BA for what ? 6 months tops ?
>>46709511
Renegades have a better Crusader variant because its two guns can be double up. But other wise that aren't any different
But loyalists still get access to all their formations and relics and their detachment gives ObSec
>>46709481
plus shipping most of the time.
>>46709832
>(and they use their own detachment so can't use any IK formations)
yet. The box is not even out. of course it's not a real army YET, we will see in July-Aug .
>>46709160
>full magnetizing
>mention it like some amazing thing
>most basic modelling ever
I bet you think slapping an ork head on it counts as a conversion too.
>>46709027
>>46709044
The problem with this logic is the assumption that the demand is there. If it isn't then all lowering prices does is lose them money.
>>46710066
no, but if you don't mention it a GreyTiders like you is going to mention it.
>>46710083
if there is no demand, then they're losing money anyway.
>>46710116
A what is a grey tider?
>>46710122
Yeah, but it's been proven timesand again that lowering the prices by 20% certainly won't translate in a sales increase by 20%.
The cut they'd have to do to see a significant rise in sales would be way too big.
>>46710083
>>46710083
>no demand
Then they would not be a business anymore ?
Also most other TabeltopGames/wargames are booming.
My FLGS easily brake each year the turnover of the last since 2012
>>46710158
>>46710170
That's certainly true.
>>46709027
>They would actually make much more money by lowering prices and thus increasing demand.
please stop posting if you have no clue about economics
>>46710158
A guy who doesn't paunt his models.
The basic insult for people that use commission painters when other people don't field painted models.
Which is quite ironic when you consider that these guys use comissions for the exact same reason the grey tiders exist, being lazy assholes.
Only time using a commissioner is valid imo is when you physically can't paint, like Parkinson or whatnot. Otherwise just grab your paints and practice.
>>46709481
Because it's a Renegade Knight, not a full Chaos one.
I expect and hope that if GW does an actual Chaos Knight it will look quite different from the Imperial version. The one from FW is a pretty big disappointment since it's more akin to the looks of old Chaos and not new.
>>46709573
Depends on what you like. Some of the Dreamforge stuff doesn't really look 40k and at the very least just looks similar to the Knight exoskeleton without any of the armor.
>>46710174
That the increased demand is there, just because you lower prices doesn't mean more people are automatically going to buy. If your sales don't really increase than you're losing money because person that was already buying from you is now paying less.
>wargames are booming.
People like to say this, but I'm not sure if they just aren't piggybacking on the rest of the industry.
>>46710230
I've got nothing against comission painting. I struggle to find time and energy to paint a model a week, so I don't mind people paying to get the chore done as well, but insulting others while paying for convenience is just silly.
>>46708955
come on nigga use your head
>>46710224
Not him but did you just said that cheaper product don't sell more ? You are in perfect contradiction with literally every market out there. Ask any store on black Friday is they don't sell more.
That how America in early to mid 1900 build their wealth, and later China, who is now number one
>>46709850
Buddy was a red shirt like 7-10 years ago. They got to buy stuff at 60% discount (after a certain period after joining up obviously). GW still made a profit. Since that time, some of those same models prices have bummped up $10-15 etc. 20% lolz
>>46710083
Given all the fan wank here for just cheaper Knights, I'd say it's not too hard to believe that yes demand would go up.
Second thing to consider is that 40k is a social hobby, people are willing to invest more if their friends will buy in, which obviously correlates with the price of the product. I'd figure having more people to play against on gaming night might be good for the hobby, as well as good for sales.
>>46710262
Dream forge could do well to release armor kits for their titans, that way you don't have to send them in naked
>>46708675
I was never interested in knights but that renegade paint scheme and the free terrain in a discounted box are amazing.
>>46709160
>that lazy, ugly OSL
Let me guess this is Awaken Realms studio or something.
god I keep getting tempted by the GW boxsets. Its rough. Maybe if I can legit find a friend to split with.
>>46708959
>>46708959
Join the resistance, play Epic with fan made, fan cast versions of the forgeworld stuff.
A game where you can have 4 titans and 10 superheavies on a battlefield without it feeling cramped or without the game turning super weird, and where knights aren't even that impressive compared to what they some times share the field with.
>>46714296
But I like big minis....
>>46709075
It sounds like such a small scale, where are the massive armies?
This box would have been great for my mechanicus army, but GW ruined the other half of the project by discontinuing the necrosphonx I was planning to use to customize them with
>>46714534
Back then you were looking at 200 points for a 10 man tactical squad. A 1000 point game would have likely been a captain, 2 marine squads, a dreadnought, and one more squad.
Nowadays, that's closer to a 500 point game.
The scale was much smaller, but it was better for it. And you could always run larger games if you wanted them. It's just that an 1850 point game now might have been 3000 points back then.
The good thing was that it was easier to build a basic starting force since you didn't need as many units.
>>46714534
In epic, where the rules make playing huge forces enjoyable instead of a slog
>>46714642
Fair, personally I feel like apoc rules need some form of whfb style movement trays for the large clusters of units on the table,
>>46708955
Are you a retarded person?
>>46714644
But those minis are tiny, I can't even make an individual space marine, just a blue blob
>>46714500
That reaver is just about the size of a boxnought. I have one. They're not really that small.
>>46714500
>big
>minis
Think about that for a second.
>>46714921
You are what's wrong with the hobby, you want big giant battles but refuse to concede that the rules and modle set need to be different, you are picking aesthetics over play you drooling retard
>>46714962
He probably owns a hero clix galactus
>>46714967
>picking aesthetics over play
...yes?
You do realize this hobby is about painting, converting and collecting first and playing games second?
>>46714296
Where can i get these specifc fan casts???????????
>>46714921
Then you have poor eye sight
>>46715016
Accept 10 giant gundum fucks on a table is a shit aesthetic
>>46715016
He's the reason epic was canned and apocalypse was put up, people like him wanting retardedly large battles without set of miniatures or rules actually made for those logistics and turned it into a cluster fuck just because he couldnt see the precious patterns on an individual space marine
>>46714534
28mm is supposed to be for skirmishes and small scale engagements, where the larger miniatures don't clog the limited space and where the amount of detail actually has a purpose.
28mm mass combat is both retarded from a gaming perspective and from a cost perspective.
At some point GW realized that people are retarded enough to actually want to play a game of 40k with 150+ minis and superheavies on a 6'x4' table, and everything got even shittier.
If you want massive armies, play a scale that makes sense, not "lets cram our table edges with space marines from edge to edge and walk forward and see who rolls better" or "lets play kill the other guy's knight first!".
>>46715030
The fuck...
How? Who!?
Who is this miracle worker and how can I give them my money?
>>46714921
If you want " massive armies" but don't like your MINIS being MINIATURE then you should probably take a second to consider what the fuck you want
>>46710116
Your image and your own tremendous level of asspain don't go together
>>46715091
Not him, but honestly knigts, and other super heavies should be reserved for specific senarios and very limited in number in 40k play, they can have a place on that scale but only when applied carefully
>>46715091
Is it too much to ask for detail and scale at once? I mean come on, just imagine how gorgious it could look?
>>46715096
They are painted master sculpts that were never cast
>>46715104
I want scale and details, I can spare a big ass table for it, I do wish epic offered movement trays like old fantasy battle, would help the tactical layer a bit
>>46715152
It would also cost a million doubloons.
>>46715182
So I cannot get these? Ever?
>>46715152
>Is it too much to ask for detail and scale at once
Yes, yes it is you simpleton.
There are things people have to make called "decisions" and high level of detail and large scale battles are directly fucking opposed.
>>46715182
You can get them lol.
I have a some. They're legit.
>>46715193
>Not just making your own out of plasticard
>>46715223
Why do they have to be? Why do people hate that I like the larger knight figures better? Why do they act like trying to get the best of both worlds is so wrong?
>>46715219
No, they are not commercially available unfortunately.
>>46715096
>>46715182
They are NOT master sculpts, they are printed and cast by a fan and are still available from fans who recast them again.
I bought some last year.
The guys who cast the 6mm Horus Heresy and forgeworld stuff check the epic threads on /tg/, they're not terribly difficult to get hold of, but often have long waiting times.
>>46715256
But there are no rules for them
>>46715264
None of Epic is. Not officially at least.
>>46715259
Detail = big shit
Scale = a lot of shit
Take a moment to think about that for a second. You want shelf pieces, not game pieces.
>>46715264
Stop talking out of your ass.
The guys who cast them hang out on /tg/, they are definitely available, just not from a webstore or anything, for obvious reasons.
A 6mm Fellblade in resin is less than 10 bucks, a 10 man squad of marines is like 2.
>>46715286
Do units not move in blocks in Epic?
>>46715152
Painting would be impossible for the finest details
Look at how shit some of that fantasy stuff is with the itty bitty souls streaming off - and breaking off
>ITT; 40kids learn about Epic for the first time.
>>46715324
Infantry is usually mounted 5 to a base, so one squad is usually 2 bases of infantry and a transport the squads are part of formations that activate and move together, but they're not bunched up in big squares or anything.
>>46715309
Damn dude you seem flustered
>>46715689
They are literally directly opposed goals
>>46715030
>Death Guard nurglings
>>46715030
>don't talk to me or my legion ever again
>>46714896
That is what they seem to be trying with Warpath
>>46715751
Seems to have been accomplished seeing as you could have an entire game of 40k with only knights or superheavies.
>>46715853
But that's not 40k
>>46716014
And It's shit
You can do it, but it's shit
>>46709991
I've never paid shipping on a recast order north of $60. If you're buying less than that at a time why bother
>>46716163
You're just mad that you're poor
>>46716163
What if I have a ton of fun playing big stompy robots with my frieends? what if people like to do regular 40k dudes and knights. Are they wrong?
>>46716559
Yes, they encourage GW to make the Hobaby worse
>>46716559
You may as well buy a bunch of gundams and make whooshing noises while you roll dice.
Literally the same thing not to mention cheaper.
>>46716559
If you're just in it for the miniatures, that's great, then you can definitely just pat yourself on the back for picking the brand with some of the best kits and great looking miniatures, imo.
But the game is kinda shit, compared to other games. The only people who disagree with this tend to be people who haven't really tried the other games. If you like big stompy robot funtime, that's awesome, and if the biggest part of that hinges on the specific knight miniatures or whatever, then just keep at it.
But as someone who's been into the hobby since the early nineties, I would recommend anyone who listens to collect and paint all the 40k minis they want, but spend their playing time on better games. I personally collect and paint tons of the big GW kits because I love giant silly monsters and knights and stuff, but when it's time to roll dice, I play epic (netepic armageddon to be precise, and some times netepic when we do titan/superheavy only battles). It's just a better game, I still get to be a warhammer 40 000 nerd, but I don't need to suffer through actually playing warhammer 40 000.
40k is basically like a videogame with great graphics and meh gameplay. Some people will prefer to pick up a better more balanced and tactical game even though it's uglier.
>>46716876
I can't agree more. I do the same, but mostly with Kill Team as I like individual dudes fighting it out.. Different strokes for different folks.
>>46716436
oneofthosebaitfish.jpg
>>46716876
The game is supposed to be an extension of the hobby, not an actual good set of rules.
Once you realize 40k is supposed to be Minecraft and not Starcraft or League of Legends, you'll be a lot happier.
>>46716876
My opinion is this but with more vitriol.
Thank you anon
>>46717276
People like you who have drunk the GW cool-aid are the worst. The hobby is wargaming. GW makes wargames and miniatures for wargaming. The whole 'They're actually collectible models!' is a very recent GW asspull over the fact that they've driven all of the old guard who could actually write rules and fun games away.
>>46716876
So say I wanna play with my minis, what is a good sci-fi game with good rules I can play my 40k pieces in?
>>46717376
Infinity might work, depending on the army. It's more skirmish level though.
>>46717376
Kill Team HoR, Zone Morataris, One Page 40K. Potentially that game that Mantic is coming out with or Tommorow's War.
>>46717276
>The game is supposed to be an extension of the hobby, not an actual good set of rules.
They aren't mutually exclusive. Plenty of games are "extensions of the hobby" and are also good games in their own right, for example "every single good tabletop game using assembled and painted miniatures"
>Once you realize 40k is supposed to be Minecraft and not Starcraft or League of Legends, you'll be a lot happier.
This doesn't even approach making sense.
This doesn't even exist on the same continent as sense.
Minecraft is the polar opposite of 40k, it's ugly as sin but fun and encourages you to create your own fun, 40k on the other hand is a terrible terrible game that's only saving grace is it's coat of paint and has fairly low "create your own fun" aspects unless we're talking about late 80's - early 00's 40k.
The only thing that even starts to be reasonable about what you said is that 40k shouldn't be treated like a strictly competitive game.
"Competitive" and "Good Rules" are not the same thing.
>>46717371
>The hobby is wargaming
Are you serious? "The hobby" in terms of 40k is defined by the "hobby aspect" i.e. the non-gaming aspect, including fluff, painting, and modelling.
If you're going to be a brainless anti-GWfag at least learn the terms right.
>>46717425
>>46717424
It'll be tricky, necrons have surprisingly few analogues, I might try to just encourage my friends to play with angry codices
>>46717451
I'd recommend googling the word hobby
>>46717371
So the times have changed and you refuse to adapt so you claim people "drink the koolaid" just because they're savvy of the current status quo? Maybe you're just a moron. Especially since you're the only one expecting GW to not write shit rules. "Drinking the koolaid" is more like "not being a rose tinted retard".
>>46717444
>"Competitive" and "Good Rules" are not the same thing.
Yes they are. Bad rules can't be competitive. All good rules can be.
>>46717425
Zone mortalis is the closest thing to 40k being a good game right now.
I personally enjoy iquisimunda
>>46717460
Kill Team has a necron codex
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3lhd5ck9easll9/Kill%20Team%20List%20-%20Necrons%20v3.0.pdf?dl=0
>>46717477
>in terms of 40k
I'd recommend you get some reading comprehension and a brain.
When you discuss something, you use the jargon appropriate for the topic. Visit any 40k forum and you will see the distinction between the hobbyist and gamer.
>>46715096
>make mini out of shrinky-dinks
>paint em
>shrink em
>>46717376
It depends on what you want to do. Do you want quasi-realistic feeling platoon to company level engagements with the ability to bring in a shit ton of equipment and rules? Stargrunt II or Tomorrow's War.
>>46717503
No, it's a pedophile mustache relationship.
Asymmetrical campaigns, heavy rng, and other things are all anti-competitive but can be good rules, like realm of chaos, a very fun very good system that was the polar opposite of competitive.
All competitive games have good rules, but not all good rules are competitive.
>>46710867
staff prices don't necessarily make a proffit. I've worked at a places where staff price is a loss for the company. but they do it too keep good will.
>>46717481
The hobby is more than just GW. I don't complain about GW not making good rules anymore because I'll just use their old ones or use different rulesets. What annoys me is people who claim that GW IS the hobby.
If you're in it for the painting and the models and don't care about the games, you're into model making. Not Warhammer 40k. If you're into it for the game, then you're into Wargaming. Not Warhammer 40k. If you're into it for the lore, then you're into Warhammer 40'k, but you can use that lore and the setting with other rule-sets and even other miniatures.
>>46717520
Zone Mortalis does cut out a lot of BS. It gets rid of giant superheavies and screws over jetbikes pretty well. It's a really good way to level the playing field.
>>46717636
So it makes the tessaract vault I bought worthless now....
>>46717581
>implying pedophiles can't be good people
>implying all pedophiles have mustaches
Nuh uh!
>>46717581
But your definition of very fun and very good rules that aren't competitive seem awfully subjective. A tight, balanced, competition-compatible ruleset is the only one that can be objectively ruled as good or "better than bad rules". Even if you don't like competitive play or competition you can't claim chess has bad rules.
>>46717684
Use it as scenery or an objective marker.
>>46714962
seems fine to me. I'm with him. I like to have a few big minis in each army.
Apocalypse and superheavies becoming standard is one of the best things too happen to 40k.
28mm skirmish games are a dime a dozen these days. But there's no real alternative options for when you want huge armies with huge robots and don't want to have too compromise and get boring tiny minis.
>>46717720
That's completely wrong. You can have good rules that are well written and consistent, that work well for unbalanced play that favours fun creative scenario play rather than just competition. You're stuck in this mindset and it's like watching someone go into a library day in and day out and pick out a poorly written short book and re-read it every day, refusing to even glance at the rest of the library.
>>46714967
>You are what's wrong with the hobby, you want big giant battles but refuse to concede that the rules and modle set need to be different
no they don't.
>>46717762
>Boring tiny miniatures.
>>46717797
Yes, they do, because otherwise you're using a ruleset designed for about 30 miniatures a side and using it for battles using huge numbers of miniatures, rather than use a decent mass battle ruleset.
Hell, play with 28mm if you REALLY want to, but get a huge table and use Epic rules or Future Commander or Dirtside II or any number of the large scale battle rulesets out there.
>>46717814
Isn't that the picture of normal sized models that had a filter on it?
>>46715223
no no its not.
It can and does work. 40k is a good example of it working well.
>>46717814
Seriously where do I go to buy these?
>>46717874
No, it's not. It's really, really not. Play literally any wargame ruleset designed for more than a platoon sized engagement and you'll see.
>>46717531
This far from universal.
To most people "the hobby" means the entire beast
A cursory google search of the terms brings up plenty of quotes like "I've always preferred the painting and modeling aspect of the hobby" "I love this hobby. I love painting. I love playing" " i got into the 40k hobby to play" "I’m asking gamers out there to really understand what this hobby of ours is" "Particularly, looking for info about the social aspects of the hobby"
You also find people who DO distinguish them, albeit less often. "I enjoy the hobby aspect more than the gaming aspect" " hobby/gaming aspect of 40K" 'I really enjoyed 40k because of the hobby aspect"
The latter is far from all encompassing. Trying to argue someone's point is incorrect because they used the more common and more correct definition of the word rather than a common incorrect usage is silly.
>>46715309
I'm thinking about it. it just means i get too have a lot of big shit. Awesome.
>>46715751
except they're not.
>>46717762
>But there's no real alternative options for when you want huge armies with huge robots and don't want to have too compromise and get boring tiny minis.
Thats because it's a terrible idea that doesn't work well.
>>46717857
yes
>>46708959
this i fuking hate all of this new shit soon we will be playing 1 vs 1 model of cost of cheap bike and gw will say " Plaaaaay epiiic wars in 40k universe u only need 1 fukhuge model and its gonna be op as shit"
Look at this engagement. In 40k, this would take all afternoon. In Epic 40k, this one assault would be done in a few dice rolls as part of a larger battle.
>>46717958
Space is limited. Scale uses space. Detail uses space.
>>46717873
No, as in >>46717814 specifically was using a special lens or something to look like a smaller scale.
I remember that being said in another thread.
>>46717920
Type "40k hobby" in google without quotes. First result, "40k hobby blog" with description "...dedicated to the hobby aspect of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40k universe".
Second result, Spikey Bits, description explicitly mentions two items: hobby AND tabletop wargaming.
Don't try to backpedal and claim it's "less common" when it in fact is not, just because you were wrong.
>>46717762
40K being at a reasonable size doesn't neccesarily mean that there are only a dozen figures on each person's side. ~30 figures are ideal, as you can have one big guy as a centerpiece instead of half a dozen of them, downplaying their own importance.
>>46718042
No, that's what GW has been pushing. You're a modeller and/or a wargamer. Those are your hobbies.
>>46717896
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/
>>46718003
But I can't see shit, what is the point of having a team if they are all one unit?
>>46717988
>Chaos Imperator
Did GW ever sell those?
>>46717852
you'd have a point if 40ks rules hadn't been written for huge armies with a few big models the last few editions. The rules have changed since the old skirmish days.
>>46710083
I have personally seen over a hundred people who refused to buy that Anniversary marine because of its retarded price.
Price is hand in hand with awful balance in causing the ongoing loss of players. And it makes getting new people to start almost impossible.
>>46718112
It's still incredibly clunky, slow and poorly designed compared to a proper ruleset designed for large battles.
>>46718081
They look like shit at that level of detail
>>46718042
I know you're having difficulty with this so I'll walk you through the argument.
>>46717276 You
>"the rules are just there so I can push models around and have fun, it dosen't matter if they're good"
>>46717371 Him
>"The rules are a core part of 40k, the idea that they don't matter is recent"
>>46717451 You
"You used a word I don't realize has two definitions in the way I don't realize exists do I'm going to ignore your point!"
>>46717920 Me
"It has two definitions, here are examples of people using both definitions."
>>46718042 You
Retarded mewling
>>46717912
oh inknow 40ks not the best and there are plenty of 6 or 10mm mass scale games that are good. but they're not 28mm scale so I've never found them worth bothering with. In the realm of 28mm 40k is decent, definitely good enough that its still fun and probably the best option for mass combat.
>>46718146
They look like shit because they're from the era where everything looked like shit
A modern epic knight would have the level of detail of a modern space marine
>>46718113
>all those ork vehicles we never got to have in 28mm scale
>>46718186
>probably the best option for mass combat.
>40kids believe this.
>>46718186
How many other 28mm systems have you actually played anon?
>>46718004
wel yeah. but 40k isn't close too the limits there.
So its a non issue here.
>>46718146
You're pretty much saying that old GW metal miniatures look bad as they're the same size as a 28mm infantryman.
>>46718186
Just use the rules anyway. If you want to scale up the distances, you can. Or did that not occur to you? Crossfire is another good system for standard 40k sized engagements (roughly platoon/company actions). Just fluff it up for 40k stuff.
>>46718108
Not that I can remember. They did sell a bunch of conversion bits for titans, though. But those look like self made conversions.
>>46718230
It is past the limit
You don't seem to realize that a certain amount of negative space is also a necessity
>>46718134
The price is indeed high, but it's nothing new. He's the EXACT SAME PRICE as other plastic monopose marine HQs.
The only issue here is that he's limited, which actually makes it more reasonable (in an economic sense) to raise the price.
Therefore, the real outrage should be the high prices of the standard HQs, which there has been plenty of in the past.
High prices for a single figure is rife in this hobby, it's not GW specific. Go look at any FW character, or the FW primarchs/30k characters, or a Kingdom Death pinup.
>>46718218
infinity, warmahordes and malifaux.
they're good games and a like them. But they can't do mass combat for shit.
>>46718165
>"You used a word I don't realize has two definitions in the way I don't realize exists do I'm going to ignore your point!"
Yeah, I don't realize that when I specifically pointed out the word was used differently since it's also a piece of 40k jargon.
Hobby means something else when talking about 40k hobby vs. gaming, and when talking about sailboating. He even admits to such but simply calls it a "less common" definition when it isn't. It's everywhere.
So keep on having fun with your billion quotes of autistic "mewling".
>>46718232
I've never heard of crossfire, this thread has been very educational, I'm going to have to experiment with epic rules on my 40k minis, but first I have moment trays to make, if it fails I will try to get/convert for epic scale minis
>>46718232
>Just use the rules anyway. If you want to scale up the distances, you can. Or did that not occur to you? Crossfire is another good system for standard 40k sized engagements (roughly platoon/company actions). Just fluff it up for 40k stuff.
I've tried once. but it's a headache too actually try and get a game, just sticking too a published system is a lot easier if you want too actually play a game. It's a nice idea but rarely feasible.
>>46718289
>Play games designed for small level skirmish.
>"They don't do mass combat well. So I'll stick to this bodged together small level skirmish game ruleset that's been made to accomodate mass combat poorly, rather than actually use a proper ruleset.
Plenty of the mass scale rulesets are designed to be scaled up to pretty much any scale. Tomorrow's War and Stargrunt 2 are designed for 28mm, Dirtside II and Future Commander can be scaled up easily. The only thing stopping you from using them is space, because you need more space to properly maneuver to make the most of them. But even if you stick to using them in their 6mm scale distances, it would still be better than playing 40k.
>>46718321
If you don't play with friends, sure.
>>46718282
People ARE annoyed at those prices, does not stop smug GW apologists going 'welll ahurr durr its just the normal model price!!
And that being the normal is fucking bullshit.
>>46718269
if you're still trting too force things onto an4x4 table. but it's normally fine on the standard 6x4 or 8x4. It's only a problem of not enough empty space if you start going too the crazy extreme and field like 300 gaunts.
>>46718321
How is it hard? If it's 6mm, just times everything by five. 15mm? Add two thirds the distance. Simple. You can even make a little hand out to use with the distances on if you're playing with strangers.
>>46715259
Because 'the best of both worlds' is killing the game.
Its almost impossible to just play what should be a normal 40k game now without going to Zone Mortalis. The standard model count and game size keeps going up, it killed WHFB and it won't make 40k better or more popular. It will just accelerate its ongoing decline as veterans get fed up and new people flee from the insane entry cost.
>>46717276
You are an idiot, its this attitude that lets GW get away with ruining the game as a playable thing.
GW is too obsessed with profit to even consider banning superheavies and knights from normal 40k and it will just keep getting worse.
>>46718009
tilt-shift lens
>>46718305
>a piece of 40k jargon
Did you ignore the quotes using it to refer to 40k as a whole? IN RELATION TO 40k IS CAN MEAN BOTH. You turned an actual argument into a semantic one because you were too stupid to realize that.
You literally took the phrase "Spikey Bits is about the hobby of Warhammer 40k and tabletop wargaming" to mean "the hobby and wargaming" not "the hobby of wargaming" Is English your second language or something?
>>46718372
the difficulty is mainly in finding a willing opponent. In my experience everyone just wants tok stick too established rules without making "unofficial" changes.
>>46715841
underrated
>>46718388
I like big and I don't want to support a dead game like epic, I just want 40k to have its rules made more scalable, like once you have enough points to warrant apocalypse you alter the rules and break out formation trays
>>46708675
>I'm genuinely fucking amazed.
>That price is amazing.
I'm not gonna lie - you are a retarded faggot if you think IN THIS DAY AND AGE that paying that much money for THAT LITTLE CONTENT is anywhere NEAR a good deal.
>>46718371
It isn't about physically moving them around, it's about having enough space to make meaningful tactical decisions, never mind the fact that the basic rules are designed for the days when greater daemons where over 1000 points and a single plague bearer was almost 80 and have never been changed. 40k is running on engine that needs skirmish amounts of empty space to run well but has been hackjobbed to be a shitty mass battle game.
>>46718635
It is if you want to get two knights, but that doesn't make for a good single game, at the same time I can appreciate the sentiment of making side games where the pieces can be used in the main game
>>46718539
1.make friends
2.play game with friends instead of randy bo bandys
3.you can now make decisions about what you actually want to play with friends
>>46708959
Could not agree more brotha!
>>46708959
Right?
Thank god I'm a fantasy player for the most part and free from gw's jew claw
>>46708934
>>Amazing price for plastic made in China.
GW makes all it's stuff in house in Nottingham.
GW is many things, but supporters of the squinty eyed reds is not one of them
>>46717762
Play Heavy Gear. Whole game is stompy robots, the normal model is about 28mm(although the game is technically 12mm) and the rules aren't shit like 40k's.
I agree that big stompy robots at 28mm is dumb. 40k and WHFB were determined to be Epic and Warmaster at the wrong scale. You evetually get to a point where the models become too big, or there are too many, that all tactical value vanishes.
>>46718951
I don't follow, more modles me and more options, just get bigger tables
>>46709027
>>46710224
I *am* an economist, and the anon is right. I supposed you could be persnickety and say that quantity demanded would go up, not demand itself-- even pros make that mistake because it's how real people talk. Also, the demand curve might actually move to the right as people get into the hobby.
GW has been charging above optimal prices in the hopes of re-positioning themselves as a premium good. At first, that resulted in very good returns as current players were invested in the hobby and gritted their teeth and kept buying. As that player base shrank, qty demanded dropped for everything. They're feeling that pain now, and it will take years and marketing dollars greater than it would have cost just to maintain their original market position.
Their strategy had inherent contradictions (trying to be both jaguar and GM at the same time doesn't work).
But anyway, that first anon was totally right and you are totally wrong. Basic intro microeconomics: a cut in price will result in an increase in qty demanded. There are a couple theoretical exceptions, but those are extremely narrow even on the demand curves where you find them. Way less common than armchair economists and optimistic marketers claim.
>>46709027
Re-reading your post, you did use the phrase "pure profit" wrong. That only applies where there are no variable costs; ie, the revenue from every item sold goes directly and totally to offset fixed costs and then after that profits.
>>46710083
By "the demand" do you mean short term demand or long term demand?
A player might buy a particular box at a given price because he's already invested in the game (short term demand function) but then quit the game later because the overall cost of playing the game has risen too high.
GW kept raising prices, seeing products sell, and deciding that the market could and would bear it. Not realizing that long-term demand takes much longer to manifest.
Also not fully cognizant of the costs they were imposing on playing the hobby in general over the past 20 years. Minis are gettiing more expensive. Number of minis per box are declining. Number of minis required in your army to play have gone up. Codexes have gotten more expensive. And you have to buy minis and codexes more frequently to keep up with the changing rules and meta. Paints and hobby supplies are more expensive (and the time required to paint all those minis has gone up). You can't buy from discounters as easily as you could 20 years ago. By moving away from retailers and towards GW stores, you get less coverage so players have to drive longer to get to a store to buy or play.
Meanwhile, competitors' quality has increased, and much cheaper games to play like Xwing have come out. Retailers now accept that GW is ultimately hostile to their interests and actively promote those competitors.
So as the cost to play 40k goes up and the value of alternatives like other games and other hobbies pulls even with GW, people quit the game or never start playing to begin with. It takes years for that to happen, and then decades to reverse it.
The funny thing is that while dismal financial reports are going to be a long-term problem for GW for years due to the long term effects of Kirby's strategy, the BoD will likely want to bring him back eventually in a desperate attempt to restore profits, not accepting that Kirby's success came because GW ate its own seed corn.
>>46718289
Malifaux and Warmachine are 32mm
>>46710867
The only way margin is going to be that low is if it's gross margin including their retail channel. GW's costs are almost all overhead these days: marketing, sculpting, mold-making, the lease on the stores and the warmish bodies inside them. The plastic itself is cheap; I'd be stunned if their contribution margin was under 70%. If their variable costs are that high on this product, then there's some really funny stuff going on in corporate somewhere.
>>46708675
... am I the only one who would rather just have Mechwarrior make a comeback?
>>46719358
Kirby is a leech posing as a remora, sucking the animal dry and pretending to pick of mites
>>46719449
judging by this thread clearly not
>>46719372
Same thing m8
>>46719526
Eh.
DESU the 40k mecha was never very good. It has a place in Epic 40k of course, but eh.
>>46719606
>DESU
Word filters?
Fine. 4chan's been going down the shitter already anyway.
TO BE HONEST
happy?
>>46719007
What exactly aren't you getting? Me suggesting a game other than 40k exists? That there are better games than 40k? That basic game design means that trying to play a game with huge armies at 28mm is clunky and impractical?
>>46719007
>I don't follow, more modles me and more options, just get bigger tables
>when the people who disagree with you are literal retards
feels good
>>46719630
>4chans been going down the shitter
It doesnt get any newer than this.
>>46719676
I play for fluff
>>46719770
40k is a shit game for fluff, because fluffy armies are either impossible or complete shit, barring rare accidents
>>46719630
>lately
>filter has been around for months
gtfo newfag
>>46719630
>Word filters?
>>46719809
>>46719757
Months is a long period of time in your span on 4chan?
>>46719852
Gtfo you retarded newfag, you already outed yourself.
>>46719802
what I don't follow is calling 40k a shit game, you act like I should just abandon the game I've invested hundreds into
>>46719886
>>46719809
>>46719757
Not that anon, but some of us do take hiatuses from this shithole from time to time.
>>46718282
>The only issue here is that he's limited, which actually makes it more reasonable (in an economic sense) to raise the price.
Its limited because they chose to limit it so they could charge a stupid price for a shitty bit of plastic. All GW prices are bullshit and have literally fuck all to do with the cost of production.
>only two dice
why is this so unnerving to me?
>>46720119
I'm more troubled by the lack of a measuring stick.
>>46719596
It's actually not. 32mm figures are reguarly a head taller than 28mm figures. A space marine looks like a midget compared to your average malifaux goon.
>>46709074
>Fucking pop up eldar falcons.
Best thing ever. Also them sweet dual Psylance Warlock Titans.
>>46720028
>Sunk Cost Fallacy
And no one claims that you have to abandon all the models you spent money on. You can play Kill Team or Zone Mortalis.
>>46719770
Then play Epic if you want to play for fluff.
>>46720641
This. There's plenty of options for you to use those miniatures, just use them in games that don't suck AND If you want to keep playing 40k, that's fine. But there are other options. You don't even need to stop playing 40k. You can play more than one wargame at any time, you know.
>>46720406
It's an argument about gameplay. They are functionally exactly the same.
>>46720162
Not even a weird bullshit 45 degree turning thingy.
>>46720162
>No whipping stick
Terrifying.
>>46720808
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
>>46709225
>Warmachine took on board at the start and all of their players immediately ignored because it was a waste of focus.
Warmachine player, can verify that this is true. Power attacks are generally a waste of time. One time I did throw a setback into a lake though, which douses its furnace, deactivating it. Other player was fairly salty.
Supposed to get better in the new edition, but who fucking knows how that'll work out.
>>46720999
>but who fucking knows how that'll work out.
Especially considering they said the same shit about mk2.
My hype level is at negative numbers, but it would be nice if they did actually fix that stuff.
>>46720999
>Chucking giant steam-powered robots into lakes to shut them down
That sounds amazing
>>46709064
>No ability to dedicate it to a Chaos God.
You had one job GW.
>>46721174
Use the FW Chaos Knight rules. Lets you use the model as part of a Chaos Daemon or CSM army instead of as a seperate detachment.
>>46715030
dont talk to me or my wifes legion ever again
So it's basically 40K Battletech. But at an impractical scale and 10-15 times the cost for two Battlemech-Knights. Which you will buy so you can never actually play the game and instead use them in 40k. Where they will take up too much table space and simply stand in the place where they were initially placed and blaze away at each other like two girls flail fighting. Until one goes down and the last one standing is declared the victor as the side without a knight(s) struggles futilely to asspull a win.
I'm curious to see if the rules blow goats (which they probably will because GW hasn't had a truly good rules set in a long time) At least with Battletech you had critical hits and systems damage etc.
