Be honest /tg/, if you were ordered to take a hill and that cute girl in your unit gets shot and goes down, you wouldn't leave her behind.
That's why you can't have female knights, you're all too chivalrous to follow order when it counts.
Yeah, but if I was ordered to take a hill and that cute buy in my unit got shot I'd do the exact same thing.
>>46687859
This. OP is underestimating the power of camaraderie.
>>46687597
If I were ordered to take a hill as a knight I'd be pissed off - you don't charge up hills, especially when warfare has moved to guns and shit.
Now where's the damn artillery, and/or air support?
>>46687859
I probably wouldn't, not when it's against order.
I especially wouldn't if that guy also has eyes on the cute girl in my unit.
>>46687859
>Stopping while charging a hill to save someone
That's how you get both of you killed idiot
The only way that person will survive is if you capture the hill before they bleed out
>>46687597
Oh great, yet another 'this is why women can't fight' thread. Cue tossing the benefits and liabilities of female soldiers, a good old heap of sexism on both sides and 300+ posts.
Don't these belong on /k/? They know what they're talking about.
>>46687597
Perhaps so, but if you're on the side defending that hill and the girl in your squad gets hit, you wouldn't retreat if that meant leaving her behind. Time for a heroic last stand with the cutie.
>>46687917
Anon, I'm lurking in this thread because I enjoy watching the kissless virgins roll around on the floor struggling with each other.
If you don't enjoy this thread, just close the tab and hide the thread.
>>46687597
>you wouldn't leave her behind.
And?
Modern soldiers are trained to not leave comrades behind, anyway.
>>46687919
So if the order from above says to retreat, you would disobey that to do a last stand with the girl?
Is that not the problem with a mixed unit? That guys will be disobeying orders?
I find female soldiers pretty dumb but this thread is even dumber.
Female knights are cool if you have a good reason for them to be there or if they are an exception.
>>46687597
Nope. The most I'd do is drag her to cover and call for a corpsman. That done, I shoulder my rifle and keep advancing unless ordered to do otherwise. It's a bad feeling leaving a squad mate bleeding on the ground, but if the advance bogs down then we're all fucked.
>>46687597
Be honest, OP. Amidst the hail of gunfire, and the screams of the dying by and wounded as they charged up a hill like a group of idiots the only thing you'd be concerned with is not dying rather than how cute some chick was before someone put a hole in her the size of a stop sign.
>>46688176
I think if you put guys and girls together in close proximity with the possibility of imminent death with each passing day then yes, they will be fucking.
So yes, if a girl goes down someone will care.
>>46687597
That cute girl probably declined to go out with me so I choose to run on.
>>46687917
This isn't necessarily an argument for why "women can't fight" so much as "the natural instinct for men to protect women can be a battlefield liability," which it certainly can be. It's one of the main arguments many officers - male and female - use against integrated combat teams, and it has a pretty strong basis in reality.
It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the female soldier, but instead the natural hardwiring of the male brain.
You never leave anyone behind.
>>46687597
>that cute girl in your unit gets shot and goes down
Females don't belong in combat arms.
>>46687968
>female soldiers dumb
>using best elf for your bullshit
>>46687936
Only because of the types of war we've been fighting, given a conventional war against someone with the military potential to actually launch an offensive against a well defended line and a vague acceptance of the fundamental laws of taking PoWs and then "don't leave anyone behind" will become "pull back before you get encircled" pretty quickly.
The most I would do for said girl is kick her body into cover while I'm charging. As old mate say's cap the hill first save comrades later
>>46687597
If I was ordered to take a hill, I would take the fucking hill.
The most I would do is drag her away somewhere quick and radio the medic so he can treat her later. And, yes, I would do it to anyone in my charge, even if he's an asshole.
The faster and more professional we do it, the less casualties there will be.
Camaraderie is all well and good, but discipline is far more important.
These people are all my brothers and sisters, and I can't afford to lose all of them just to save one of them.
>>46687597
I don't know. I've never been ordered to take a hill(FTXs don't count). Cute girls in the army aren't a thing here. There is also very little empirical or even anecdotal data we might utilize to get a decent prediction.
My training and education tells me that no I will not; I must advance the squads under my command. My political education tells me to accept even 100 percent casualties if it is demanded of us, so the girl's life is irrelevant.
So rationally I should. But human minds were not built to be cool headed and rational under the stress of warfare. So I wouldn't know, and possibly will never know.
>>46688262
Female soldiers are pretty dumb senpai.
>>46687597
>female knights
>knights
>leaving a KNIGHT behind
>leaving NOBILITY TO DIE
Well no shit you're not leaving them behind you fucking peasant. They're worth more than you. It has nothing to do with their sex and everything to do with their station and birth.
>>46688364
I don't know, how high have taxes been lately?
>>46688383
>I don't know, how high have taxes been lately?
You are an okay guy, feel free to fuck my peasant sister anytime. Praise the silent revolution.
I've already seen said cute girl suck 15 dicks.
I'm taking the hill.
>>46688355
Not really, seeing as how anybody who is a full-time member of a military organization is considered a "soldier." There is literally no reason why female soldiers can't do non-combat work such as logistics, medical, engineering, administration, intelligence, etc., aside from "Base-Whores!"which I'll admit are certainly a thing, but much more a byproduct of the military lifestyle than anything else. Who would have thought that if you put hormone-filled men and women together they'd start fucking each other?
>>46687597
A charge depends on it's inertia. The best way to help her would be to take the damn hill and silence the guns.
But frankly I'd feel compelled to help the ugliest dude in the squad if I saw him go down. I'm just that kind of guy.
>>46688432
>intelligence
Depends on what kind. Analysts? Sure, whatever. Ground teams that work directly with grunts? No way.
>>46688432
Oh, I won't refute that. OP's image made me think we are talking about soldiers in combat here.
>>46687911
Irrelevant
the argument is about mixed gender units and if gender doesn't matter the argument against falls apart.
>>46688230
So by this argument you'd be okay with segregated male and female units?
>>46688488
If you want to waste resources on units that will be surpassed in every way by the others, sure.
>>46688488
I'm okay with mixed units as long as they're not front line units.
In fact, I'll be fine with all female front line units if they are physically capable.
>>46688468
The girls in my team with could pull their weight during training.
Maybe your girls are shite.
I couldn't take the hill either way, I would try to save anyone near me, regardless of orders. And that's why I, personally, am not fit for war.
>>46687597
OP you're implying that I would leave ANY of my wounded comrades behind if I had the opportunity to save them.Wouldn't even have the make the choice. If I didn't get into my current Uni program I would have gone to college to train as a paramedic and I already have a fair degree of first aid training. OP if I were in the army I would already be in the medic corps. It would be my job to make sure that my comrades weren't left behind to die
>>46687597
>chivalrous
Try reading what the definitive works on chivalry actually say about women before you talk nonsense.
GENDER SEGREGATED COMBAT UNITS
PILOTING OR TANKERY OR LIGHT INFANTARY
DO IT LIKE THE RUSSIANS DID
Oh how I hate these threads. Listen relations between soldiers is not the problem, the fact that females are physically weaker than men isn't the problem, the problem is that women are not as expendable as men. And even that is not really relevant anymote.
Less expendable you say? But whatever do you mean anon? I mean that if we have a theoretical population of 100 men and 100 women in our village it goes like this. Send men to war, lose say a fourth of them (the number really doesn't matter. Time to start breeding. Theoretically can pump out 100 kids at a time discounting twins and whatnot. Same village, send women to war, lose like a fourth. Get to breeding. Pump out 75 kids discounting twins and whatnot.
Simple fact women are the bottleneck for your population. If you have more women than men thats k, you can make that work (which is why a lot of cultures back in the day had provisions for polygamy, many of which oddly enough specified what to do after a woman is widowed in a war). If you have more men than women, well some poor bastard is getting stuck with his hand.
>>46687597
Is it VC? Damn, I forgot all memes, sorry OP.
>>46688559
All polygynous (or polyandrous, but those are rarer for obv reasons) are heavily inbred. Men are more expendable but not as expendable as you're saying
>>46688536Too bad, depending on where you are, wounded are brought to you and you have to do pretty quick triage - weighted with the thought of "who of these could recover and fight"
>>46687597
You don't leave your men behind, faggot.
>>46688488
>All-female unit
What's the point? They're altogether inferior to male units, and are only useful for non-combat roles.
>>46688602
>in CLS
>get told "If they're not breathing on their own, they're dead. No time to get them back."
Damn doc.
>>46688593
Not necessarily,and besides anon I'm talking history, fucking everyone was inbred.
>>46688621
The army has more non-combat units than it has combat units.
>>46688634
So you aren't going to see women on the frontlines or in major leadership positions.
Fantastic, imagine how the public must be howling about this.
>>46688634
They also do poorly in non-combat MOS, for the most part.
>>46687882
>Camaraderie
>Not homo buttlust
Actually they would be better.
>>46688602In reality yes, but based on the OP I was working with the assumption that I would be working with a frontline unit similar to a medic attache, not a soldier working in a proper surgery or medical unit. I know proper triage in a civilian setting, and coincidentally the Uni program I'm in happens to be military history so I am aware of how unlikely this is in a modern setting. However the game OP is using is also NOT! WW2 in which medical corps attaches were common among the frontline units as well
Sorry i sperged out. I'm also a huge history nerd
>>46687597
That's why you don't send kids to war like in the op's picture.
>>46688533
What unit were you and the grills on?
Like, regular infantry, artillery, marines, space marines...
>>46688687
Sending kids to war is pretty standard for WW2, so it makes sense to have it in notWW2 as well.
>>46688698
Infantry.
I note that they were motivated motherfuckers, since in my country the military service is mandatory for men, optional for women. And of course I'd take them than the unmoticated trash that was counting the remaining seconds.
Almost everyone of them got to NCO school, too.
>>46688760
Ah, from a country that doesn't matter.
>>46688760Suomi?
>>46688432
>Not really, seeing as how anybody who is a full-time member of a military organization is considered a "soldier."
Whoa there
Thought you could move those goal posts and I wouldn't notice?
War is a man's art.
>>46688668
The line that separates them is very fine.
>>46688727
Well if you call 16 yo kids then it's correct I guess.
>>46688861
Yes?
>>46688861
In most western countries 16 yr olds are legally defined as adolescents or minors or somesuch other term. You are not legally an "adult" until you're 18 so yes.
>your all to chivalrous.
I'm sorry, what image bored are you on?
>>46687968
>Female knights are cool if they are an exception.
Screw that. They are common and they are huge!
More importantly, has anyone run a Valkyria Chronicles setting? if so, how did it go?
>>46688906
Nazi Germany conscripted 16 year olds into the Volkssturm.
>You've just liberated a german town. The last of the defenders in the town hall have thrown down their weapon and marched out with their hands up.
>They are all adolescent little girls
What do you do?
>>46687597
Segregated units with equal standards.
Also full body clothing and masks for both males and females, no mingling with other troopers either.
>>46687597
>How to know OP is a sexist AND a faggot: The Thread
>>46687597
Silly Anon, if girl was cute, smart or otherwise talented she wouldn't be joining army in the first place.
>>46689119
>how to know anon is faggot: the post
>>46689089
>Segregated units with equal standards.
>with equal standards
Good luck.
>>46687917
>Don't these belong on /k/? They know what they're talking about
we have had these threads on /k/ before. It is a pretty unanimous answer of no, women do not belong on the front lines, so they typicall last maybe 20 posts as most.
>>46689121
Unless you lived in an anime where 90% of girls are cute, young and capable of fighting dozens of faceless enemy goons.
>>46689152
Military is doing that ever since, so fuck you and the horse you ride on
>>46688760
>Unmotivated trash
Yes, what a horrible person you would have to be to not want the government to waste years of your life on useless crap.
>>46689060
/tg/ only completed like 1/3 of the rules required to play VC with Only War rules:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2JOyyHPMlkxcXUyMThqUHZGM2M/edit?usp=sharing
One of these days we should finish it. I've been working on the vehicle list for Gallia
>>46688230
Anon, you've just proved you are delusional kissless virgin that knows shit about human interaction, gender relations and most importantly - military organisation.
Mixed units are a thing, you obnoxious faggot. Get laid finally and stop bullshitting around
>>46689088
The first time I've been able to unironically respond with
>rape
>>46689172
If they're equal standards that women can meet, then they're pretty low standards.
>>46687597
If I'm the medic of course I'll stop and help.
Otherwise; I would drag her into cover, call for a medic, load her gun, then go back to taking the hill.
>>46689165
And this is a reason to make shitstorm on /tg/?
>>46689088
>Nazi Germany
Not really a good example of an average western nation but, in all fairness this is NOT!WW2. My point about the ages still stands though as the age to join the allied armies was still 18 (and those depicted are part of the NOT!Allies)
Obviously I would have to take them prisoner and send them to CanadaBastards going to my home before I would. Unless they were SS troops... Canadians usually refused to take SS troops prisoner after the Abbey D'ardenne massacre
>>46689225
no, just pointing out something to that anon. i did not make this thread.
>>46687597
Broseph, I'm Lawful Neutral as fuck. There's no way in hell I'd rob my waifu of her martyrdom AND compromise the mission.
>>46689205
>Mixed units are a thing, you obnoxious faggot. Get laid finally and stop bullshitting around
And they routinely have issues related to the interaction of men and women and underperforming in almost all areas compared to male only units.
>>46687597
>That's why you can't have female knights, you're all too chivalrous to follow order when it counts.
What knight would leave his fellow man at arms behind to be picked clean by scavengers? The chivalrous thing to do would be to offer your own horse so that the squire can safely take them away for medical attention or at least back to their family.
>Knights
>Discipline
>>46689088
>What do you do?
Shoot the SSman, send the rest to camps.
>>46689228
Didn't the 7th Squad have a girl that was only 12?
>>46689212
>What is modern warfare
>What is conscription-based army
>What is vehicular combat
>What are fire teams
Seriously, anon, stop thinking in terms of Seven Years War. That was 250 years ago.
>>46689212
Grunts don't need to have ultra high standards.
That and we don't need 50/50 f/m, you moron, if only 0.1% of the females can do it then so be it.
The point is the only system that really works is that one.
>>46689240
Sources and proves, aside your sad factoids.
Israeli and Kurds would like to have a word with you
>>46689088
rape?
>>46689240
But... but... Muh empowerment.... Muh feminismnot the anon you are responding too and I don't necessarily disbelieve you but as a history student specializing in Military history it would interest me
>>46689205
>H-have sex you creepy virgin neckbard loser!
>this will improve your argument somehow
>>46689263
Fuck nigga, look up social dynamics in mixed sex groups.
The behavior soldiers experience/display is the same observed in school children
Men have increased competion and enmity, they also try and sacrifice their own well being for the opposite sex. Women stop struggling as much to achieve more and become complacent.
>>46689248
Yeah. She had a phobia of getting shot, the little coward.Seriously, why would you become a stormtrooper if you freeze up when the bullets start flying?
>>46689249
In /k/ they usually have well thought arguments.
In /tg/ we think of war as a series of cavalry charges.
>>46689283
>Can't take the banter
He probably meant that when you should spend a little time with a 3d girl before spouting bullshit.I actually agree with you, but that was as shitty a response as you can find in 4chan
>>46689206
>>46689269
>>46689315
Wait what, Edy Nelson? Bullshit
>Goes to check, 1918 (Aged 19 by 1937)
She was 17 year old in the war.
>>46689022
Does that tiger work as a suppressor for that giant hammer?
>>46689249
Nigga I was in the Marine Corps, I've been in combat. You still need to be physically fit, be able to carry heavy shit long distances and move quickly. Do me a favor and look up how the combat load for your average frontline troop has actually increased.
>>46689259
They don't need ultra high standards, but they don't need to lower standards either. The mere fraction of the women that would A.) Be interested in serving in combat arms AND B.) Meet the standards as they are, does not really warrant the expenditure of resources in order to accommodate them.
>>46689263
My experiences, the studies of sexual assault within the military, and the study the Marine Corps just did last year on the efficiency of mixed-gender infantry units.
>>46687597
But what if it was the other way around?
>>46689389
Wouldn't you want them to stop for you?
>>46689088
Vergewaltigung, volles Rohr, keine Zurückhaltung
>>46689389
>>46689404Is this porn?
>>46689088
Liberation time!
>>46689389
>>46689404
Johann had it coming. If he had some balls and told Selvaria that Maximilliam was using her then maybe it didn't have to end up that way.
But seriously the DLC was pretty good. The base game already made a point that the Imperials are not necessarily all bad guys and the DLC drove the point home.
>>46689474
Fuck, i fuckedit up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJjXfUlIO_c
>>46689263
The use of females in Israeli units is also greatly exaggerated. They are limited to three infantry units that patrol the only two "friendly" borders of Israel, and are still barred from units that are designed to see heavy combat. Kurds employ females because as an ethnic group, they are surrounded by those that would happily see them destroyed (much like Israel actually). I haven't seen much on the efficiency on their female troops, that leads me to believe that they aren't actually used much.
All of this would be common knowledge tovtou if you actually ever served in the military, or at least one that isn't just a social club.
>>46687597
IRL nobody ever had a problem with leaving women and children to die.
The US even has a party that basically does that under the guise of protecting embryos.
>>46689489
The DLC showed Selvaria had more to her than blind loyalty, yes, but ultimately that is what drove her character. There is no way anyone could convince her to not throw away her life if ordered to do so.I just wanted to save her damn it.
>>46689088
Liberate
>>46689543
>>46689543
oh snap
>>46689543
No anon... don't bring actual politics here please... a shitstorm will surely follow. We were having as close to civil discussion as /tg/ gets in the thread... don't ruin it
>>46689510
>The use of females in Israeli units is also greatly exaggerated.
They apparently were freely used by officers and with the agreement of the brass who had an eye towards producing more strong jewish warriors.
>>46689088
>What do you do?
Same thing the US soldiers did.
Give them a chocolate bar to fuck me.
>>46689510
>I haven't seen much on the efficiency on their female troops, that leads me to believe that they aren't actually used much.
There was this one town the Kurds were defending from ISIS. They used their female soldiers literally as rape-baits. When the soldiers of ISIS where chasing them, they turned around a corner where a sniper was waiting for them.
Honestly, I don't know how true this is, but I find it amusing.
>>46689544
It's always occurred to me that Gallian Army probably doesn't seem all that noblebright to the rest of the world:
>first use of poison gas in the war
>invents white phosphorous round, always use them in combat directly against targets in the guise of "generating smoke"
>starts issuing an infantry weapon that's both incendiary and poison gas to shocktroopers
>>46689383
Nigga, you are in the net. You can be for me a fucking blue elephant and that means shit.
And if you are all so soldiery gung-ho, you could at least know how the fuck training for female soldiers look like, you stupid kissless virgin.
Jesus, if there is anything worse than atheist neckbearders then it's definitely neckbearders pretending to be cops/grunts/emergency specialists in the net.
>>46689282
There's just no benefit. With the exception of one thing I can think of, it would always be better to have an all male unit verses an all female unit or even a mixed gender unit for a military operation.
The exception being if you're attempting to build a relationship with the females and children of a population in a culture that has a taboo about men and women not related interacting. Thus, female engagement teams, or lioness teams, or whatever they're called now.
>>46689634
Not trying to bring up /pol/-shit, but they're a bit like Israel in the military sense where they are isolated and surrounded by much larger enemies on all sides; so they are willing, militarily, to do anything within their power to try to maintain independence.
>>46687597
I'd do the same for anyone, because I'm a human being and not just a slave to my own base desires like you are.
>>46689653
>at least know how the fuck training for female soldiers look like,
I do. They are held to lower standards. Maybe if they were held to the same standards, eventually we'd have better females in the military... If someone does bring a discrimination suit first.
>>46689383
>I was in the Marine Corp
>Knows jack shit about basic military training
>Or how modern combat operations are performed
>Sprouts some sexist bullshit instead, sprinkled with factoids
My experience tells me you are a faggot
>>46689663
Any links to any of those studies or anything? I wouldn't mind actually doing some research into it after I'm finished my exams for this termFucking Chinese and Russian history. I can't remember any of the fucking chinese names and Russian history has like 5 different names with 20 people called each one at a different time in history. Thank god for Canadian/British history classes and Pure Military history classes to save my GPA
>>46689687
>>Knows jack shit about basic military training
Like how females have lower PT standards, and at least for the Marine Corps, are completely segregated from males? That how at said boot camp, their obstacle course for fuck's sake is shorter and smaller than the males?
>>Or how modern combat operations are performed
I have literally done modern combat operations. You still carry a bunch of shit, you still walk long distances, and you're still expected to be able to fight when you get there.
>>46689719
The Marine Corps published one last year, look for mixed-gender infantry unit study. In regards to the sexual assault ones, I don't have them on hand, I just remember having them told to me every year or every time someone got raped or "raped."
>>46687597
ITT: Armchair military and kissless virgins discuss role of women in military.
>>46689776
>There is this book
>I don't have it
>Doesn't give title
>Doesn't provide anything
>>46689779
Which one of those are you?
>>46689779
Anyone who's actually been in the military will say it's largely a negative, but with exceptions. One of the best platoon commanders I ever had was a female, she was still slow and weak as fuck though.
>>46689776
Yeah sorry man. I was trying so hard to believe you until now. like what>>46689797 said.
Still gonna look into this (maybe useful for a paper later) but without actual sources...
>>46689797
>>Doesn't provide anything
You have access a search engine I assume? Or are you just retarded?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-marines-infantry-experiment/71979146/
There you go fagatron.
>>46689797
Not the other guy, but I litterally just typed "marine corps mixed gender study" on Google and this was the first answer:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/04/454672813/controversial-marine-corps-study-on-gender-integration-published-in-full
>>46689814
Last time I've checked, platoon commander is suppose to give orders to 30-35 people, not fucking run in the frontline.
And don't want to break it for you, but none of my platoon commanders were fit. And all of them were male.
That's about how valid this argument was.
>>46687597
That's why my regiment on has fat and ugly women in it.
> inb4 no fat soldiers
Nigga you don't know shit if you think everyone keeps their boot bod. Hell half the guys get so coddled these days they don't even get one.
>>46689663
Okay, but what about just having more soldiers? Having 500,000 males and 200,000 females would be better than just 500,000 males, right? As long as they're properly trained, disciplined, equipped and fed.
Especially if you're the defending faction, might as well have ladies trained to defend their homes than not, right?
>>46689889
>none of my platoon commanders were fit.
>my unit is shit and yours should be too!
I love that you're advocating that it's a good thing that the platoon commander, who may have to lead men directly into combat, is out of shape and shouldn't be able to keep up with their platoon.
Also, it's hard to respect someone in the Marine Corps if you can out perform them in literally every way.
>>46688651
They do well enough most of the time.
>>46689939
If you have then to spare, and the resources to train them, but if you also just had another 200,000 males, it would be better.
>>46689939
Depends on the era we're thinking with that argument. As we move towards more modern history quality of troops and equipment becomes much much more relevant and important than raw numbers and manpower. I mean, yes a difference of 200,000 soldiers would make a huge difference either way, but those numbers aren't really realistic in the modern day which is generally what we're talking about (i assume).
Especially if you factor in that most wars are no longer fought in massive pitched battles between grand armies but in smaller skirmishes between individual or small groups of units along a broader front or theatre of war.
>>46689954
There's a bit more to it than being the target at the front in combat...well there is for other branches, can't speak for the guys who show everyone else what not to do.
>>46689939
>>46690000
Yeah, it makes more sense from a historical perspective or in cases like Israel and Kurdistan.
But I was specifically referring to having a choice between an all male unit, an all female unit, or even a mixed-gender unit. There's only one instance where it would be better to have the last two, in modern military operations, that I can think of. I'm sure they may be one or two more, but it's nearly always better to have the all male unit.
>>46687597
>and anyone in your unit gets shot and goes down
No man left behind anon.
>>46689964
Sure, I doubt there'd be a scenario where a country could equip their entire male population with proper weapons. Well, I suppose they could get weapons from a country with a much more powerful industry.
>>46690000
Such as guerrilla warfare?
>>46690025
>There's a bit more to it than being the target at the front in combat
No shit Sherlock, but if you can't perform at least as well as those under you, you won't ever have their respect. They'll obey your orders as much as they are legally obligated to do so, and even then will skate when they can. A good leader that gains the respect of their charges is a force multiplier, this is something that's been known for as long as we've had militaries. And a good leader sets to be an example in every way they can.
>>46690025
It's pretty obvious you've never actually been in combat, let alone been in a military that matters. No one cares about the summer camp you faggots do after high school that counts as your "service."
>>46687597
That's bullshit it morw about physical strength which women lack compared to men.
>>46690067
Precisely. the onset of Guerilla warfare, the invention of modern automatic firearms, etc.
But even if you back at WW2, most actual engagements were relatively small-scale, fought between individual groups of soldiers not entire armies. There was almost never a single, continuously-maintained front, just a vague area of "beyond that, there be bad guys"
>>46690055
No opinion on this, haven't studied it thoroughly but if a commander has the choice between an all-male army or 200,000 extra soldiers, unless they are reasonably certain that the 200,000 extra soldiers are going to be a liability they're going to take the extra troops
>>46689918
Reminds me the conscription problem from '09, when Army couldn't get enough able-bodied guys into uniform, as too many of candidates were overweight and unable to pass physical tests
And then spergs like OP are making thread about how women are too weak for this.
what kind of army 'takes a hill' by throwing men at it anymore? a retarded one.
smoke and assess the situation, because if you're at less than 2/3rds of a squad, you're already combat ineffective for most squad tactics and it's time to pull back with your wounded, men or not.
>>46690095
>They'll obey your orders as much as they are legally obligated to do so, and even then will skate when they can
If you pick up command in the middle of combat, maybe. Any other situation and I can say with absolute certainty you're talking out of your ass.
Leaders don't gain confidence among their subordinates by being the best, they build confidence through training.
>>46689954
>Platoon commander
>Leading men directly into combat
That's what corporals do and sergeants help organise
Unless your knowledge about military comes from Hollywood, that is
>>46690159
>they're going to take the extra troops
No shit. I'm not saying that just extra hands wouldn't necessarily help. I'm saying if you had the choice between using an all male unit OR an all female unit, OR even a mixed-gender unit, you'd be better off taking the all male unit.
Even in the scenario you've spun, the female troops act as an add on, not a replacement for the main force.
>>46690129
>HURR
>AD HOM
>DURR
Nice line of defense agains pretty basic arguments...
>>46690129
I've got 6 1/2 years of active duty service in the Army, so care to try that BS again?
>>46690179
I mean... the OP image is a NOT!WW2 game we're probably discounting the fact that modern armies don't take a whole lot of hills... most modern combat is guerilla or insurgency in nature.
We're not really talking about "modern" combat, in all fairness but you do have a point.
>>46690211
Again I haven't studied the issues specifically, just making some basic observations, but generally I would agree
>>46690220
Man you're on the internet. No-one believes/cares. You might as well just have posted the marine copy pasta for all the recognition it will get you
>>46690179
>Expecting on /tg/ any other military discussion than about pitched battles, line formation and volley fire
How new are you here? Average fa/tg/uys is still stuck somewhere between Spanish Succession War and Seven Years War, thinking that tactics are still about waltzing in tight lines over battlefields with thousands of guys.
>>46690193
>platoon commanders totally don't go out to cop's, op's, or lp's
>they also don't go on missions ever
You're average shaping patrol will likely be all enlisted, but officers still do some shit... Not very often and not very well, but they still do and are still expected to.
>>46690220
>Anonymous image board
>HURR I AM SOMEONE OF EXPERIENCE DURR
>>46690269
RULE BRITANNIA
>>46690220
The Army is the working welfare of the military, surpassed in terribleness by only the National Guard. God I hate working with you faggots.
>>46690291
>Shitlifting for the sake of it
Jesus fucking Christ. Being on site of fighting is not the same as running in the front line. That's what squads (or however your own military calls them) do, commanded by corporals. Meanwhile the captain is BEHIND those, giving orders to the fucking platoon, but definitely not trying to be in the front.
Because guess what - he's a fucking CO, not grunt. And his job is to command this mess. It takes to never be in a fucking military to not know such basic shit. And a great way for spotting armchair specialist.
>>46690190
>Leaders don't gain confidence among their subordinates by being the best, they build confidence through training.
Again, no fucking shit. But if your leaders are routinely fucked and can't even keep up, you lose confidence. Holy shit, are you so fucking dense that you think that I'm saying "Run fast = lead good!" I'm saying that if you can't perform at least as well as those you lead, confidence in your ability will drop, so you better make up for it in others ways.
>>46690358
A platoon commander is a relatively low position brah.
>>46690291
>He thinks soldiers are in top body condition
>Any of them
I guess you know army only from films and gung-ho books.
>>46687859
I wouldn't if he had a GF or was more attractive than me.
>>46690396
No, soldiers are in terrible shape. All Marines know that.
>>46690388
a low position but not a position that would have control of a situation by being boots on the ground, managing three (or more, depending on army/unit type, i guess) squads gets pretty hairy pretty fast, and the last thing you want is to be shot at while you're trying to sort shit out.
>>46690388
I've got a simple solution:
Please describe us how platoon works. I'm sincere here. Explain us how platoon works, and how it is commanded.
Because apparently you don't even know what kind of unit it is.
>>46690396
I also love how it went from:
>Female troops are on average worse than male troops
>Sexist! I have no proofs, but you're sexist! All my platoon commanders are out of shape! Health at every size shitlord!
>>46690388
... so?
He still commands 30-35 men, organised in 3-4 squads of "rifles" and two another supporting squads of heavier shit. Getting your CO or even NCO shot is the last thing you want to have, so you don't throw captain, both lieutenant and all 3-4 sarges in the front line. You sent there grunts commanded by corporals.
Seriously, you act as if last 200 years of commanding development didn't happen and we are still using units of 250-300 men as most basic one, under single officer with two sarges to help him.
>>46690427
A platoon is made up 3 squads, by doctrine anyway, but isn't always the case in practice. Often led by a 2nd or 1st Lt, I've head of captains commanding them but I've never seen it.
>>46690510
... go on, there is still a lot of stuff to cover.
And I'm really sincere here. Describe how platoon works and is commanded. Because so far you have the very basic outline of composition.
>>46687917
technically they belong on neither /k/ nor /tg/ but on /pol/, although considering how bad that board is, its quite obviously why they leak out.
>>46690486
Nigga at no time did I say "platoon commanders are out there on point." I said they're expected to be able at least keep up with those they lead. Maybe the Army is different, as you guys are working welfare, but that's still true in the Marine Corps.
>>46687859
No, I think OP is specifically arguing against heterosexual knights being allowed to fight in units with women in them.
You'd obviously have all the qt bois in the heterosexual men legions and all the gay men in the units with women in them.
>>46690531
Jesus Christ.
In reality, the platoon commander just gets bitches at the the company CO, while the platoon sergeant actually does shit with the platoon. Ideally, he also delegates to the squad leaders who in turn delegate to the fireteam(or just team) leaders, but 7/10 times the Staff or Gunny who's the platoon sergeant will be a micromanaging faggot who won't get sele cted and hates his fat wife.
>>46690595
Now, since you explained how platoon works...
... what the fuck platoon commander is doing in the front line of his fucking platoon? Because you've just described the chain of command perfectly fine and apparently still insist how CO is in the front, and not just commanding this shit.
>>46690450
lol. k. here's your (you)
>>46690510
that's just the comp.
>>46690541
yee. idk why this kind of thread even exists, it's a retarded premise. i'd stop for any man of my unit and get someone to apply them first aid, because that's what you're supposed to fucking do when someone gets injured.
>>46690546
>The only military of the world is American one
>Semper Fi bullshit all the time
Anon, no words can describe my lack of interest of what branch of military you are serving in. I don't give a fuck if US military has single Army or divided this into three different branches, one of them being militia.
All I want to know why are you implying that somehow its required from CO to be in any other shape than being able to do basic PT. Which is exactly the same as is required from every other soldier around, so the people he commands.
>>46690626
While I'm with you, this
>i'd stop for any man of my unit and get someone to apply them first aid, because that's what you're supposed to fucking do when someone gets injured.
no longer applis. If soldier is still conscious and capable of moving, he's supposed to patch himself, while the rest of the team/squad is busy shooting. Only when he gets downed, unconscious or is in no shape to patch himself - then you delegate someone to patch him.
So you are right only to a degree, as this is a very, very situational thing.
>>46690665
>somehow its required from CO to be in any other shape than being able to do basic PT.
Again, from the only military that actually matters, they are. Our officers have higher PT standards for fuck's sake. All of these is fucking a moot point anyway, and in know way argues FOR females in combat arms.
>>46690546
>but that's still true in the Marine Corps.
Whatever you say Navy boy. Whatever you say.
>That's why you can't have female knights
no that's why you can't have CUTE knights
>>46690701
yea, agreed. should've said that you should assess the situation, but i assumed 'going down' meant that they're incapable of applying first aid to themselves.
>>46690741
>only military that matters
ok lol
>>46690622
At no point have I claimed that the platoon commander is going to be right there with the fucking teams. He's also not going to be a the God damn rear with the Skipper. He still needs to be able to fucking keep up.
>>46690665
I may not agree with what that anon is saying (though I think he's the one that said some of his better commanders were actually women), but you're twisting his words a hell of a lot there.
What he said was the platoon CO MAY have to get into the shit, and that it is also less than easy to respect someone you can outperform, both of which are clearly true to a degree (their relevance is, of course, totally up in the air)
Though I can't tell if there's both an allegded army guy and a claims-to-be marine here, or just one
>>46687597
Cute girl in question both runs like a freight train, and heals like a motherfucker. She's tougher than she looks, to an almost supernatural degree.
Also, Ragnaid. It makes everything all Better. Even really bad wounds.
The only things that really put you down in Valkyria are just getting absolutely splattered, or wounds that make you bleed out faster than anyone can get to you with the a bottle of Ragnaid spray to patch it.
That or someone doing a coup de grace on you. (In game, that amounts to a unit going down, and the enemy running up and finishing them. No animation, but presumably one could suppose they smash a skull, or put a bullet in their brain, etc.)
>>46690754
True. Give me a cute shota squire and he will be "holding my sword" if you know what i mean
>>46687597
>leaving anyone behind
That isn't very American of you
>>46690741
You know, there is a joke in my country about law students that must keep constantly reminding everyone they are studying law.
I guess there must be similar joke about Marines in States.
>>46687597
We have medics for that shit. I personally keep fucking moving. Then again I'm a heartless person
>>46689301
>The behavior soldiers experience/display is the same observed in school children
That's because the average person is basically a child. People who enlist are probably more average than most.
>>46689370
Aisha Neumann is the girl I'm talking about. Both she and Edy had the Panicky trait, though, and were shit.
>>46689380
Yeah, kind of like sticking a cat on the end of your gun in Postal 2.
>>46690171
They probably could have gotten more people if they had held the men to women's standards.
>>46690220
No one cares.
If it's roleplay land, I don't leave anyone behind regardless of gender. Fuck orders.
Irl, I dunno.
>>46687597
Wow, that gun is way too big for Rosie.
>>46691288
Could I actually get that saying? It might not translate well, but eh, I wanna know.
>>46689543
>>46687597
Anybody who doesn't drag their comrade into the safety of a medic is a fucking asshole.
Nobody is ever left behind.
>>46689088
Shoot all the SS officers for being scum of the earth. Send the rest to the POW camps.
>>46687597
>leaving people behind
>>46687597
You don't stop to pick people up if you are charging up a hill. Stopping gets you shot.
So, yes, I would leave her laying there and hope that the medics get to her before she bleeds out. That's all you can do in those situations.
>>46687597
This is why you need some cultural equivalent of Valhalla, where the people believe that those who die honorably in battle get a badass afterlife.
Because it's a lot easier to continue the charge after the squad's cutie gets hit if you know that she will be dining in Odin's hall tonight if she succumbs to her wound.
>>46689247
This guy knows what's up.
>>46690220
I'll have you know I've been trained in gorilla warfare.
>>46690323
I'm in the Guard.
:^)
>>46697137
This! That I would be so lucky as Seargeant Hibiki to die in the service of Christ! Take heart from her sacrifice my brothers, my sisters! For Jesu, for death and Glory!
>>46688624
It's sad but it's true. Although the new thing coming down the pipe that has had limited success is if they aren't breathing give them a bi-lateral needle chest decompression. According to the training I was at about a month ago SF has been having some success with that getting people to start breathing again. The instructors weren't able to produce any statistics or studies though.
>>46690414
>or was more attractive than me
Wait, why?
>>46690586
>implying the qt bois won't get fugged in the heterosexual men's legion
>>46687597
I won't speak for other people, but you'd be wrong about me. I'm happy to help other people out when I can afford to, but if helping someone else just means I'll get killed too, then I'll have failed several more people than I'd be helping.
I'd be failing the person giving me orders, thus making it harder for them to achieve a victory. I'd be failing the rest of my unit because instead of helping them fight I'm busy helping someone who might already be dead, so unless it's my job to administer medical aid to injured comrades, I'll continue to do what I was told to.
After all, winning the hill will be the best way to ensure that there will be time to help her later.
>>46687597
>Ordered to "take that hill"
>Orders do not specify manner in which hill is to be taken
If this is a modern conflict we're probably in cover anyway, or at least we're on our way to it, so as a unit we do what we can to stop the bleeding and move her rearward when we can.
If this is a cavalry charge, we're both knights, and she's not in my chain of command you're damn right I leave her behind. I've got places to be and I'm not going to jam up the works to help one wounded knight (lady or otherwise). If she IS in my chain of command, either above or below, I'd probably feel a bit more obligated to see to it that she doesn't bite it. Because chivalry and shit.
If this is still medieval warfare and I'm a peasant, sweet. I get a good excuse to not have to fight and MAYBE get recognized for helping out a knight in distress.
If we're British and this is a bayonet charge I scream my head off and keep charging. If it works I'll take a few of the lads and go back for her afterward. If it doesn't work we'll all be dead anyway, so it hardly matters. God save the Queen you heathen bastards.
>Implying that I would jeopardize a mission for one soldier of any gender
Yeah, nah. I'm pretty sure i'd be too preoccupied with trying to stop the assholes shooting at me and my friends from at shooting me and my friends. Everyone that ran out to take the hill knew the risks, so unless the grill that went down is crucial to either that mission or battle as a whole, i'm going to leave her for the medic to deal with while I make it safe for the medic to actually deal with her.
>inb4 le edgy XDDD
>>46699540
le edgy XDDD
>>46697884
And here I thought the only thing chest decompression was good for was a tension pneumothorax.
>>46690323
Beats working with Marines. I remember one mission where I had to explain to them how to change the settings on their equipment, equipment I'd never seen mind you, so they could get the link on their end up.
Even the smart ones are retarded.
>>46687597
The Order is to take the Hill. The hill needs to be taken so that the attack in the valley toward the next hill will succeed. She is weak, she is wounded, unable to commit to the assault. There are no corpsmen near to tend to her otherwise it would not be my choice. She is weak, She is unable to survive without halting the assault. I will take any mission critical gear from her, and continue the assault.
Only in death does duty end. GLORY TO THE GOD EMPEROR!
>>46700055
I resemble that remark.
In seriousness, I've seen a good number of Marines who didn't necessarily know how to use some equipment because they were so sleep-deprived in the classes.
You can be sure they know how to use a rifle, though.
>>46687597
True but it wouldn't be because I'm chivalrous. I just don't want to see such a perfectly round butt die before it can be used.
>>46688538
This guy
chivalry is a medieval etiquette between noble's for keeping the peasants from revolting and the clergy from taking your power
or at least that's a VERY summarized version
>>46694925
It's simple - "Studiuję prawo". Meaning "I am studying law". It makes much, much more sense in the context, given how obnoxious law students are about constantly telling everyone and everywhere what is their major.
Kind of "I'm vegan" or "I crossfit" among hipsters, but while hipsters are mostly known by younger people, EVERYONE in Poland had to deal with law student once in a while. And they really tend to be annoying with the pointless reminding about their major.
>>46693076
Funny, because that's what they did.
And got the very same result.
This is often brought up to illustrate the obesity and overweight problem in States, because shit gets really problematic when you can't even get enough people into uniform because of how fat they are
>>46689249
Conscription doesn't usually include women. Even in America (poor fucking sods) if you register to vote as a man BAM you're in the draft, women on the other hand are not on the draft for voting.
When it comes to high risk situations I don't think we should be worrying about accommodating people so we can't be called sexist. and while there are women who undoubtedly can excel in a front line role as well as any other male, the fact is they require additional money spent on them for specific basic hygiene products medical procedures and the like.
This is why there is kickback to women in a combat roles away from easy resupply, its the same reason we used standardized parts in weapons and even uniforms, it is cheaper to have more of the same. At least in countries like America or Britain or any wealthy country where money spent on the Military is more of an issue then manpower. but if at the end of the day you need to stop an attack and you're short on people any motherfucker who can point a rifle is going to war.
I wouldn't give two shits about a cute girl soldier, she likely gets treated better than I would as an ugly man soldier as it is, so she can get shot on my watch. If she dies who cares, it happens. However if it wasn't a lethal wound and she'd show up back at base I'd probably help her so the lads didn't bully me about it.
>>46704822
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel is the only country that has conscription for women.
Then again, Glorious Mother Russia called everyone to the duty and the amount of women they've put into uniform (and were actually quite effective, given all factors) is just staggering.
>>46704822
>Conscription doesn't usually include women. Even in America (poor fucking sods) if you register to vote as a man BAM you're in the draft, women on the other hand are not on the draft for voting.
I don't even get why American still has the Draft.
They haven't needed it since Vietnam, have they? The way the militaries of the world are shifting, there isn't much call for basic training conscripts in huge numbers.
>>46687597
The reason this is allowed in Valk and FE is because the game is always reset when someone dies anyway.
>>46704869
> Then again, Glorious Mother Russia called everyone to the duty and the amount of women they've put into uniform (and were actually quite effective, given all factors) is just staggering.
> they've put into uniform
Weren't all Soviet female soldiers volunteers?
>>46705470
Yes, so?
Sorry, is "put into uniform" some English idiom for "forcibly conscripted"? If so, then my bad
>>46687597
Why i'd have cute girls in my unit in the first place?
>>46689088
Quick answer having them all shot. I would be court martial and a shit show if I did that though, especially since they just surrendered.
Check supplies and transportation, have them identified and registered by name, rank, age, relatives, etc then transported to POW Camps.
>>46704869
>Then again, Glorious Mother Russia called everyone to the duty and the amount of women they've put into uniform (and were actually quite effective, given all factors) is just staggering.
Besides small number of snipers and pilotsU2they all was in rear echelon.
>>46705616
Less BS, more guard tank commander waifu.
You guys do realize they teach soldiers to not help wounded out until the firefight is over, right?
Like, that's not heartless bastard stuff, that's standard doctrine.
>>46691288
The most common version of the joke is actually about the Air Force.
>How do you know someone's in the Air Force?
>Don't worry, he'll tell you.
Marine jokes are mostly about how fucking retarded Marines tend to be.
>>46705655
Yeah, workflow during defense is:
>Before fight, medics teach first aid and hand out supplies ( bandages, tourniquettes )
>Bloke gets wounded
>(Bloke is reminded to fix himself, unless incapable)
>It is safe enough to retrieve wounded, order to do so is given
>(Wounded are given quick first aid delivered to combat medic(s))
>Medic(s) do triage, if they aren't breathing, they are dead.
>If necessary, wounded are sent back to base to receive further treatment ( for ex. infections ). And from there actual hospital, if needed.
During advance medic trails behind, just marking places of wounded and turning them on their side. Treatment comes later.
Although I am not sure how up-to-date my training is.
>>46687597
Anon, I'm a medic, it's my fucking job to not leave anyone behind.
>>46706229
Up-to-date enough to remain valid
>>46705655
I guess you are new in /tg/'s military discussions, so let me give you a crash course
Average fa/tg/uy is somewhere around 18th century warfare tactics, with line formations, volley fire, inaccurate weapons, direct-fire artillery and cavalry charges.
If you are lucky, they MIGHT have an idea about Napoleonic era changes, but that's all.
Meaning they are behind by 200-250 years when it comes to combat tactics. You can consider yourself lucky if someone can describe you how the platoon works and is organised, because the "knowledge" comes usually from Hollywood and usually about WW2 units at best.
Hence threads like this one existing in the first place.
>>46687597
We have these things called "officers," who carry these things called "pistols," who will "shoot you in the face" if you stop in the middle of a charge to pick up a wounded man or a wounded woman, breaking the momentum of the charge and potentially getting dozens of your friends killed by machinegun fire. If they were going to live long enough to be treated by a medic, they were going to live long enough for you to take the hill before coming back for them. The gender is immaterial, people suffer combat blindness when charging, and most people look the same in uniforms anyway.
The actual reason why you don't use women in human wave attacks is that after the war is over, every dead woman moves your civilization's hard cap for population recovery down, whereas dead men do not. A society that allows its women to fight in high-attrition wars will recover more slowly afterwards, 100% of the time.
Using women in this kind of war is an objectively bad idea. Even if you let them into the military, less than a third of any army is actual combat personnel. There are very few excuses, barring a Stalingrad-level scenario, that could justify sending women into combat in large numbers.
If you will not serve in combat, your waifu will serve on the firing line!
>>46705647
Battoru waifu!
>>46705655
A soldier wouldn't do anything against the doctrine, would he? Surely not.
>>46706356
>My military knowledge comes from heroic Hollywood productions
You know how to know the difference between poorly trained militia and competent military force that rolf-stomps said militias?
Militias don't follow doctrines nor train people in any advanced tactics.
>all these queers throwing around real life statistics and records from modern combat
Honestly, it all means jack shit. All of these scenarios where women even see combat are far and few in-between and are of such short term duration you are still lacking heavy evidence for either end of the argument.
Give me a Vietnam at the very least to drag female combatants through the shit before we start an actual argument, any modern warfare barely counts as they are not wars but skirmishes.
