Did Terminators just become viable again?
>Cataphractii terminators can replace any “terminator” in any formation requirement
>They are Slow & Purposeful
>Cataphractii Armor has a 4+ Invulnerable Save
>Can get assault grenades via grenade harness
>They can benefit from normal teleportation aids
>They access get the deadly combi-bolter, TL rapidfire bolter at 24″.
>Can mix and match Assault and Shooting Weapons.
>A Termie captain upgraded (for free) to Cataphractii armor gets to re-roll his 4+ Invulnerable save rolls of a “1”.
>They can Combat Squad
>Cataphractii terminators benefit from Space Marine Chapter tactics
>>46686884
No storm shields?
Well fuck.
>>46686884
No.
>>46686884
>>A Termie captain upgraded (for free) to Cataphractii armor gets to re-roll his 4+ Invulnerable save rolls of a “1”.
Wait, what? Is that a free upgrade just because?
>>46686884
They are better than your shooty version for sure.
Assault Terminators with Hammer&Shield are still better though.Being S&P kind of defeat the purpose of having a Heavy Flamer. You need that one to make tarpitting them a little more costly for the enemy, but if you can't overwatch you lost half the utility. Meh.
>>46686966
It's compensating for the fact that a Captain already has a 4++ for the Iron Halo, so the Cataphractii armor don't give him any actual defensive bonus otherwise.
Hey guys, do you want to hear a joke?CSM getting them
>>46686884
I cannot lie to my Reclusiam. I begin to feel as though overlooked and forgotten.
>>46687225
I think the Space Marine subfactions are the whiniest factions in 40k.
>>46687234
I think the whiniest players in 40K are the players who take all opportunities to whine about other players being whiny.
>>46687262
I don't take all opportunities. Orks, CSM, DEldar, Tyranids, and SoB are justified in their whining. Dark Angels? Not so much.
>>46687262
I think the whiniest players in 40K are the players who take all opportunities to whine about other players whining about players being whiny.
>>46687298
Nigga, we've been getting ignored or shat on for years. It was only our latest codex that made us a semi-competetive army for the first time in a decade.
>>46687379
Rerollable 3+ jink with the option of stealth and firing full ballistic seems more than semi-competitive.
>the deadly combi-bolter
HAHAHAHAHA
Can't get hammers and shields. Can't get assault cannons or cyclone missile launchers. Of all the stupid number of broken things the loyalist marines get in this update, these are the least useful.
Grav Centurions do everything you'd want to do with Termi's, but better. We have had multiple threads on here discussing how to make Terminators a viable unit selection again, and removing weapon options for a slightly better invun save was never one of them.
>>46687481
They get fists, firepower and 4++ instead of hammer and 3++ for 10ppm cheaper
>>46687481
Well the Terminators do something nobody else can.
Their captain can take a bike.
>>46686936
No, you just get a 4++ and two hands free.
>>46687109
>Tzeentch marked Cataphracts.
Well there goes those pants.
With the S&P we can even pretend they are rubrics.
>>46687379
Just do the sensible thing and play with the vanilla book.
There's hardly a difference anyway.
>>46686884
>Did Terminators just become viable again?
>>They are Slow & Purposeful
>>No more dakka
>>Only a 4++
Nope.
>>46687298
Nigga, every codex where you cant take a simple all terminator Deathwing army is a crime against Dark Angels players everywhere. I will agree people overreact about alot of shit but that GW took away one of the coolest looking forces in the game just to force sales is a legit complaint.
Fuck GW, my best gaming bro has run Deathwing since 4th edition. Terminators, Dreads, and Raiders. The idea that he cant have truly scoring terminators and has to rely on other wings is a real kick in the balls to him. His interest in the game has held out only through unbound, which most events dont allow these days and his goal to model all 115ish terminators, of which he is at like 85.
Sad days for the Dark Angels.
>>46686884
Overall they are better than normal terminators, but I wouldn't exactly call them viable in any sort of competetive setting. That said, thanks to them you can now take terminators in a casual setting without gimping yourself horribly.
If you want a squad of clawnators they are a straight upgrade, since the grenade harness is aces and a built-in 4++ makes not taking the stormshields less painfull.
>>46688018
They get a goddamn Codex, their brothers get chapter tacs, second, third, Badab and cursed foundings do too.
Where's the Speed Freeks CAD?
The Order of the Sacred Heart Formation?
Mordian Iron guard Relics?
>>46688018
The current DA 'dex is overall a vast improvement over the last one, revitalizing the entire army and making even niche units and playstyles playable, but the loss of pure Deathwing and, to a lesser degree, banners are two things that sting a whole lot.
>>46688210
>orks
>who?
>out-of-print models
There's your answers.
>>46688260
None of them were answers to where.
>>46688009
Cataphractii captain gives S&P to the squad it joins and S&P gives your Relentless. So, Relentless devastators and shit.
>>46688333
So the rest of the unit can fire overwatch?
Neat.
>>46688333
>Cataphractii captain with shield eternal leading relntless grav devs who can't be removed until you've chewed through all his wounds
Muh dik
>>46688303
Don't be dense. None of them will ever exist.
Maybe, MAYBE the Speed Freak one, assuming GW ever gives a shit about Orks in any capacity beyond providing the most basic rules needed to actually play the army.
But Mordian Guard is deader than a doornail, same as Valhallans, Vostroyans, Steel Legion and Tallarn, with no models between the lot of them, let alone an army, so GW doesn't make any rules for them. The last few years showed that well enough.
And Sisters... Well, you know how well suported those are.
>>46688345
No, they're still S&P.
It's weird, since in 30k they removed S&P from Cataphractii and made it not-S&P, with all the limitations for the model with the suit, but without conferring S&P to the unit they join. Guess they didn't want people to make cheap cataphractii centurions to give Relentless to volkite caliver support squads and shit.
>>46688430
I know, just poking fun at the retard that thinks they are the same, except where they are not, which doesn't really count so they are the same.
>>46687884
No he fucking can't. It is explicitly stated that Cataphracti Armor is considered to be Terminator Armor.
Jesus, stop pushing this, people will actually start believing you.
>>46688430
To be fair, the S&P caddy is a lot more nasty in a legion army than in 40k marine list. In 40k, the worst you can do is speed up the four heavy guns Devastator squad, but in 30k? Shit like Legion Tactical or Heavy Support squads, let alone Iron Havocs, would be a nightmare that way.
>>46688460
By RAW, he's sadly right. Nobody in their right mind would do this, obviously, but you just know there is some asswipe that will try to sell this to his opponent.
>>46688548
Until you find some ally unit that could use some Relentless.
>>46688460
It's considered to be a Terminator Armour for very specific things, like what vehicles can transport it. So, going by RAW, it's legal. By RAI not so much.
>>46688452
>retard that thinks they are the same
You mean >>46688333?
>>46688768
He's been at it for months.
>>46689002
I have? At what? Telling people that the just released 40k cataphractii captain rules lets you put a model with S&P into a unit that doesn't normally have it, thus giving them S&P, which also gives models Relentless?
I don't get what's wrong with that or how someone could have been "at it" for months when the rules for the captain have just come out.
>>46689049
"S&P is Relentless"
>>46689049
>giving them S&P, which also gives models Relentless?
S&P does not grant Relentless, It grants S&P.
Similar to Relentless but with a slew of downsides.
>>46689058
>Relentless
>"Relentless models can shoot with Heavy, Salvo or Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase. They are also allowed to charge in the same turn they fire Heavy, Ordnance, Rapid Fire or Salvo weapons."
>Slow and Purposeful
>"they can shoot with Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous Movement phase. They are also allowed to charge in the same turn they fire Heavy, Ordnance, Rapid Fire or Salvo weapons."
What exactly is the difference? I never said S&P is Relentless, I said it gives you Relentless (among all the restrictions that S&P has). Sure, you can be pedantic and go "well, according to the wording, it doesn't give you Relentless, it just lifts the Relentless rule word for word and plops it at the end of S&P." But for all intent and purpose, S&P gives you the same benefits as Relentless.
>>46686884
No, I wouldn't say so. Twin-linked bolters and a 4++ aren't worth being able to run, ability to take an assault cannon or CML and Shields. Jump from 4++ to 3++ is really big.
>>46687990
That works remarkably well.
>>46689445
>>46687990
>>46687109
Even if we did get them, which we almost certainly won't, we won't get marks. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if marks disappear entirely from the codex next year and we get them back in the form of detachment bonuses.
>>46689231
Your original wording implies that the two of them were identical, which is incorrect. While you aren't wrong it that it grants the benefits of Relentless, it left out the fact that it also granted drawbacks that Relentless doesn't have, like being unable to fire Overwatch, Run, or make Sweeping Advances, things that, if you actually use strategy or tactics in your games besides "Unit A shoots Unit B," are some pretty important qualifiers.
>>46689511
>Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if marks disappear entirely from the codex next year and we get them back in the form of detachment bonuses.
Don't give them ideas!
>>46689551
>Your original wording implies that the two of them were identical
My original wording said "gives S&P to the squad it joins and S&P gives your Relentless." Nothing in that said S&P is Relentless. Merely that Relentless or "Relentless in all but name" is part of S&P. Point was never that there's no drawbacks, the point was "frikken (not-)Relentless for a HW squad." Sure, no running nor sweeping, but who gives the ability to move and shoot to a HW unit and then Runs or goes into melee? And weapons like plasma cannons couldn't Overwatch anyway.
>>46686884
>Did Terminators just become viable again?
What are grav guns
Also know as faggot spotters
>>46689511
Christ
Thanks for reminding why I still play the old shit
>>46686884
They are certainly superior to regular terminators if you want to run a certain loadout, namely Clawnators.
4++, grenade harness on the sarge and the option to have one termie rocking a chainfist and a heavy flamer, while the downsides of S'n'P don't really matter.
That said, while overall better, due to their limited shooting options they are certainly not the salvation terminators needed. If the squad could have cheap-ish combi-weapons like their 30k variant, it'd be worth it.
And the lacking Deep Strike doesn't really help matters.
