PC plans.
You know how you can cut cocaine with some flour to stretch it? Has anyone thought to cut gold bars with lead to stretch it?
Yes. That's known as basic metallurgy.
Gold coins in D&D are 100% gold
Under trade goods:
>1 pound of gold = 50 gp
1 gp = 1/50th of a pound.
>>46681666
Gold bars are weighed and measured very, VERY thoroughly in our world. They'd notice.
In D&D where gold coinage exists and there are bars everywhere.. yeah I guess you might be able to. You'd already have to be moving bars in bulk though.
They weigh fairly significantly differently after all, you could only use a small proportion of lead.
>>46681743
Cut it with lead, then cut it again with aluminum/titanium/some other lightweight metal to offset the extra weight
>>46681773
gold's much heavier than lead.
>>46681773
Gold is denser than lead, you'd only make it even lighter than it should be. Tungsten is a better metal to cut it with has almost the same density.
>>46681824
>>46681874
...I'm retarded, ignore me.
>>46681883
s'all good you're just a dangus, no shame in that
>>46681666
>cutting cocaine with flour
Anon please. Flour is not a cut for blow. Maybe if you're cooking up crack.
>>46681773
As said, gold is heavier than lead.
Anyway, a gold bar's value is determined by weight. You'd only be able to get away with a small amount of added lead before the difference in size and weight of the bar was blatantly noticeable to anyone who regularly deals in them, an the amount of gold you'd save by stretching it with lead would be a pittance in comparison. Probably not even enough to offset the cost of the lead and casting the lead cut bars.
Some classical economies built around metal coins experienced hilarious amounts of counterfeiting and general fuckdickery.
One of the simplest tactics was to trim or shave a small amount of valuable metal off of every coin which came your way.
Another was to weigh every individual coin, keep the ones that were slightly heavier than average, and once you had enough - melt them down.
Neal Stephenson - of Snow Crash fame - wrote an entire novel about the politics surrounding the debasement of a metal coinage. It somehow manages to be hilarious and amazing.
>>46681666
Yes, that's been tried, in every conceivable variation, since approximately fifteen minutes after the invention of gold as a medium of exchange.
>>46681699
impossible. any 100% gold currency will be destroyed quickly because gold is a shit metal.
>>46681666
Yes, we called them "jews". They got kicked out of quite a few countries a number of times for such things.
>>46682315
Welcome to D&D, where everything is made up and the points don't matter!
>>46682177
Amazing? Nay, it is superlative.
Just the scene where lenses are bought from a hard bitten, cynical merchant is masterful.
>>46682870
The Baroque Cycle is the best fiction I've ever read, hands down. No idea why it hasn't won every award ever, but there you go.
>>46681666
Satan, if I wanted to save coins I'd be a jew, not a jew slaying paladin
>>46682939
Spoiler Alert: Jesus was Jewish.
So uh....
>>46683021
Point? Its after he showed up that christianity started.
Its the kykes that didn't accept him that are cruel monsters that eat babies.
Think before you speak retard
>>46682177
Wasn't there some civilization that just said fuck it those counterfeit coins? There good use them, saves us the trouble of making new ones.
It didn't go well for them
>>46682906
Because Neal Stephenson gets bogged down in the minutiae he uses to overcome his mental blocks. Baroque was a lot of fun to get immersed-in, and I enjoyed how he writes about alchemy and wealth.
>>46683066
I'm afraid that it is you who is retarded.
The point I was making is that "slaying jews" makes you a pagan or a heretic, not a "paladin".
You're a hypocrite.
>>46683160
>I don't know what the crusades are
>>46683160
Just ignore him, people like him never listen. /pol/ is all over the place now a days, it's really a shame.
>>46683225
>crusades
>having anything to do with Jews.
Crusades was Muslims and Christians you un educated retard
>>46683225
>The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban II's plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land.
No, in fact you don't seem to know what the crusades were. I'm glad we've established your total ignorance about literally everything this early in the conversation.
>>46683225
hahaha typical /pol/fag right here. everything is about the jews, amirite?
>>46682315
>"It is quite inert and doesn't corrode. Meaning it doesn't lose value. Thus, generations could hand over their gold to their next ones. Can you do that with paper or iron? Can your grandma give her savings in some crumbled notes to you (that her great grandmother gave)? Unless you are a philatelist or history students, those notes will have no worth to you."
-https://www.quora.com/Why-is-gold-considered-so-precious-and-why-does-it-have-such-high-prices
Literally lasts thousands of years dickhead.
>>46683971
>hurrrr i have no idea how soft and easily damaged/deformed gold is
McFucking Kill Yourself.
>>46683273
>>46683286
>>46683366
>implying the crusaders didn't regularly massacre Jewish communities along their path
What do you think they did when they passed by a Jewish village? Tip their hats and go along their merry way?
>>46683971
Gold-standard currency is fine as long as the population making use of it never actually has any contact whatsoever with the gold, and is never allowed to print more currency after the initial run.
Otherwise you're back to square one, eventually. Tragedy of the commons, etc.
People are shit. Organizations of people are worse. Civilizations of people are worse yet.
>>46684008
Im going to argue your strawman with my own.
>hurrrr Iron coins are a much more manly metal and doesnt bend when i hit it with a rock, it obviously has value in trade!
>What is carry weight?
>Why are more scarce metals so valuable?
>What does a single grade of quality have anything to do with how stable a commodity is in a market?
>>46684131
that's not a strawman and complaining about carryweight when the argument you're trying to argue against is about 100% gold (very fucking heavy/dense) is retarded.
100% gold coins would be wrecked or broken only slightly slower than fucking lead coins would be.
and gold had no intrinsic value in the old days where gold coins were used besides it being used for jewelry and shiny. today it's different because gold is important to the electronics industry.
>>46684108
That's not what we're talking about, though.
We're discussing the simple fact Jesus was Jewish and the son of God - which means that murdering Jewish people is heresy.
If you want to convince me that the crusaders were hypocrites and heretics, and that the popes have all been hypocrites and heretics...
I guess you have me convinced.
>>46684176
>Cut it with lead, then cut it again with aluminum/titanium/some other lightweight metal to offset the extra weight
>and gold had no intrinsic value in the old days where gold coins were used besides it being used for jewelry and shiny. today it's different because gold is important to the electronics industry.
This shit isn't even wrong.
>>46681666
Given literally every gold coin of all time isn't 100% gold in real life I'm sure pretty much everybody has thought of this.
>>46684222
again, cutting it with lead would be stupid because it is too light. you would need to use something like tungsten (which isn't exactly easy to melt).
and you're replying to me, where I originally stated
>impossible. any 100% gold currency will be destroyed quickly because gold is a shit metal.
which is true.
>>46684248
Plutonium would work great ;-)
>>46684271
>melting plutonium
seems rather hard even with magic.
>46684248
>impossible. any 100% gold currency will be destroyed quickly because gold is a shit metal.
Have you considered explaining why this is so instead of reiterating your assertion, you numpty fuck?
>no intrinsic value
Again, it's not even wrong.
>>46684222
Gold is a really silly thing to base your currency on. The gold standard is a barbaric relic that needs to be ignored as a rational economic option.
>have to raise interest rates when less gold is being mined regardless of the state of the economy
>central banks can't fight depression because ALL your financial decisions boil down to 'how much gold do we have'
>gold standard literally caused the Great Depression
>gold mining is only used in 2 industries, jewellery and electronics, and recycling takes care of industry two.
>>46684282
>Have you considered explaining why this is so instead of reiterating your assertion, you numpty fuck?
BECAUSE
ELEMENTAL
(THAT MEANS 100%)
GOLD
IS
SOFT
YOU CAN BEAT A GRAM OF GOLD INTO A FUCKING SQUARE METER SHEET WITH VERY LITTLE EFFORT
DID YOU EVER USE LEAD IN YOUR CHEMISTRY COURSES? DID YOU EVER FOLD IT? NOTICE HOW EASY (WE CALL THIS MALLEABILITY OR DUCTILITY; GOLD IS BOTH) IT IS TO BEND IT AND EVER BREAK IT? GOLD IS LIKE THAT.
>>46684277
lolwut
how do you figure?
You're not thinking it would undergo fission/fusion just from applying heat, are you? :-S
>>46684282
You can wipe gold on a slate and have a non-zero amount of gold come off onto the rock. People (mostly in Pakistan and India now) use this to test for purity of gold. It's called a touchstone and really shows us how soft gold is, even when it is an alloy.
>>46684318
SO
FUCKING
_W_H_A_T_
>>46684346
I'm not even that anon but I assume it's because gold coins would degrade quickly from normal use.
>>46684176
>complaining about carryweight when the argument you're trying to argue against is about 100% gold (very fucking heavy/dense) is retarded.
You could carry less weight in gold and still retain the same value as iron or basically any other metal because it had a much higher value per weight due to it being so scarce as well as being sought after by most people.
>100% gold coins would be wrecked or broken only slightly slower than fucking lead coins would be.
This argument isn't even relevant to why gold is a valuable commodity, it would be if the argument was its staying power as a basis of coinage.
>gold had no intrinsic value in the old days where gold coins were used besides it being used for jewelry and shiny. today it's different because gold is important to the electronics industry.
Its only value is as a trading medium numbnuts.
Lets say that i am a hungry lactose-intolerant shoemaker and you were a shoeless dairy farmer. you would come to me asking to trade your commodity (dairy products) to sate my need (hunger) in order to sate your need (your motherfucking shoeless, senpai.) I wouldn't accept this trade because it wouldnt sate my need (to feed myself) because im lactose-intolerant, and can't make use of your product, so you go shoeless and i starve. But if you had a medium of exchange (something people in our area/culture consider as an acceptable payment for services and products) such as gold, you only had to trade me some of your gold for my shoes, where i would then trade that gold for some bread from a baker in order to sate my need. Golds only purpose is to be sort of a way to make an exchange satisfy everyone when otherwise it wouldn't.
>>46684202
I'm not sure what your point is. The church being hypocritical doesn't change what it did. The crusaders are where a lot of our concept of the paladin originates. Ergo, there's nothing inherently incorrect with having a paladin slay non-believers of all types, in terms of accuracy at least.
>>46684306
Spain completely fucked themselves out of being a world power because of using a precious metal standard. It's probably one of the dumbest ideas around.
>>46684346
He's saying day to day handling of pure gold coins will cause them to lose mass you idiot.
>>46683066
Early Christianity was indisguishable from Judaism. It wasn't until after the destruction of the Second Temple that they moved in different directions, and it wasn't until the First Council of Nicea that Christianity officially got rid of Jewish practices.
>>46684346
Gold and lead have very different malleability and ductility. You'd have to be Helen Keller sans limbs to mistake lead for gold.
>>46684335
>You're not thinking it would undergo fission/fusion just from applying heat
no i'm not a retard.
this is actually surprising. i didn't think plutonium would have such a low melting point.
>>46684346
THEY WOULD LOSE MASS
YOU COULD DEFORM THE COINS (AND THUS REMOVE ANY MARKINGS AND MINTING) WITH YOUR HANDS
IT'S FUCKING RETARDED
>>46684416
IGNATUS ARCANA CAN'T MELT PLUTONIUM BARS
>>46684396
>Early Christianity was indisguishable from Judaism
ehhhhhhhh. It was recognized as a heresy by Gnostic Jews for sure, and was distinguishable enough that by 90CE there were rabbinical theological arguments against it.
Not trying to start an argument, it's just a little more 'it's complicated' than 'indistinguishable.'
>>46684306
>Gold is a really silly thing to base your currency on. The gold standard is a barbaric relic that needs to be ignored as a rational economic option.
I like how this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.
>>46684318
man, can you be any more butthurt?
> Pipe. Seamless pipe made from lead and lead alloys is readily fabricated by extrusion. Because of its corrosion resistance and flexibility, lead pipes finds many uses in the chemical industry and in plumbing and water distribution system. Pipe for these applications is made from either chemical lead or 6% antimonial lead.
Seems like it's not much of a problem to me. Have you considered chilling out and getting to the point. You have explained the method of action that determines how this is a bad thing, but please tell mewhy is malleability bad?
>>46684384
My point is that the other anon seemed to associate paladin-hood with "slaying" people that are literally responsible for creating his religion in the first place. It's paradoxical. The guy is a fucking idiot.
>>46684416
>YOU COULD DEFORM THE COINS (AND THUS REMOVE ANY MARKINGS AND MINTING) WITH YOUR HANDS
They already had that problem.
>In the process of sweating, coins were placed in a bag and shaken. The bits of metal that had worn off the coins were recovered from the bottom of the bag.[6] Sweating tended to wear the coin in a more natural way than clipping, and so was harder to detect.[7]
>>46684474
>lead alloy used in pipes
just fucking end your life. i'm done with you.
>>46684433
>90CE there were rabbinical theological arguments against it
The Second Temple was destroyed in 70CE.
>>46684494
>Pipe for these applications is made from either chemical lead
So in addition to being unable to produce a complete assertion, you can't even fucking read.
Good job you hypersensitive retard.
>>46684519
>>46684519
>Because of its corrosion resistance and flexibility
>flexibility
>6% antimonial lead
tie a noose and shoot yourself in the face
>>46684540
> Pipe. Seamless pipe made from lead and lead alloys
>>46684588
>lead alloys
gouge out your eyes with a tire iron.
>>46684600
Now you're just repeating yourself.
>>46684609
i honestly don't even know what you're trying to argue. chemical lead pipes are almost nonexistent. lead is soft in its pure form. these are not debatable.
why are you even trying to troll me about lead instead of gold?
>>46684637
He's trying to turn lead into gold anon, he's a 4chan alchemist
>>46684637
You don't understand what a coordinating conjunction is nor do you have the intelligence to infer what the opposite of an alloy is.
Lets look back at a source, hmm?
> chemical lead pipes are almost nonexistent. lead is soft in its pure form. these are not debatable.
The original source is actively debating you as we speak. It's literally either 6% Antimony lead or chemical.
And both of those fuckers are still soft. Are you going to remain an utter shithead because somebody didn't quite catch what your point was?
>i honestly don't even know what you're trying to argue.
I'm proving a point. I want to see if you catch on instead of flying into a rage like a child.
>>46684738
>Are you going to remain an utter shithead because somebody didn't quite catch what your point was?
i already explained to you what my point was.
>>46684765
No, you didn't elaborate at all on why elemental gold was shitty. You just said it was a shit metal, not how it's shit, or why this shit matters. When pressed, you monkey raged, mentioned lead, got mad and confused when I talked about lead, then told me to kill myself multiple times because you couldn't take 2 seconds to explain the how or why.
Also I'm a different person from the original responder who is also likely dumb, but brought up a point you should have disproved in the original post. It's not that goddamn hard, nor does it need to be more than a sentence.
>>46684896
gold is soft and easily deformed. i've already said this.
Charles Stross wrote a blurb in one of his novels about a nation with a gift-economy who's medium of exchange was coins of high-grade plutonium.
Such a fucking cool idea...
>>46684919
"100% gold as a currency is stupid because it's really goddamn soft. That means coins tend to fold, smoosh, or turn into dust when left in a pocket for long periods of time."
"But they still do that already even with 5% gold alloys or 24 carat gold."
"Yes but elemental gold is /really/ fucking hardcore soft. It would be worse 24 carat gold."
"Really? I'm curious, I figured that 99.999% gold and elemental weren't that much different."
This isn't how the conversation went.
You know what?
Why don't we just have currency be made out of pure salt instead?
Pure elemental Na.
>>46684970
>cool idea
t. guy who doesn't understand radiation
>>46684377
Well in that case the Farmer would give his dairy product to the baker who gives bread to the farmer to give it to the shoe maker
But what if the baker doesn't like dairy and instead has locked himself out?
The Farmer takes his dairy to the used Cat salesman who gives him a lightly used cat to give to the old widow who gives him a magnifying glass so he can give it to the tailor who will look for small imperfections on a wedding suit so the farmer can deliver the finished suit to the groom whose bride will then return her borrowed copy of pride and prejudice to her friend so her friend will give the farmer the golden chicken to take to the county fair so he'll win best in show and get to meet the mayor who gives him a ceremonial key that he then takes to the black smith who melts it down and has it made into a skeleton key with the help of the Thieve's Guild so the farmer can break into the castle and SILENCE THE PRETENDER to earn the King's blessing and use that blessing to get a convicted man out of prison and let him see his son who happens to be the town locksmith who will then, after getting to see his father one last time, will unlock the Baker's door so the farmer gets the bread to deliver to the shoe maker.
See?
Bartering works.
>>46685021
That is amazing indeed. Salt is a very valuable commodity.
>>46685021
Now that's lazy chemistry trolling.
>>46685057
You're missing the point entirely.
Start by finding out what a "gift economy" is.
>>46685105
I've got finals in three weeks, I don't have time to actually come up with something good.
>>46685021
Saffron works better.
>>46685126
Saffron doesn't work that well as a common distributable.
>>46685149
I don't see why not?
>>46685162
Not common enough and a bit fragile.
>>46685108
it's dumb in all economies
>>46685179
So encase little bits of it in blocks of lucite, stamped with serial numbers and so on. Hardly less complicated than paper money has become.
>>46685196
It's exceedingly clever AS A JOKE.
The joke being that it necessitates spending your currency as fast as possible, because people are going to be constantly giving you more and if you hoard wealth you end up with a critical mass.
>>46685021
Pure Sodium != salt. Table salt, which you're referring to, is NaCl.
>>46685265
>The joke being that it necessitates spending your currency as fast as possible, because people are going to be constantly giving you more and if you hoard wealth you end up with a critical mass.
or you could just decline if you're that close to a critical mass.
>>46685449
Which means you would have better served your interests by spending one "coin" so that you didn't have to reject the next...
>>46685548
i guess the joke just isn't funny to me.
>>46685412
It's...it's a joke, man.
There's a part of the post, right there.
Where I say "Pure, elemental Na"
>>46685265
That'd work, but then it's a representative currency. That being said, I have used spice based currencies before.
>>46685603
You can't appreciate the elegant, novel absurdity of making your economy work by setting it up so that anyone who tries to hoard wealth nukes themselves?
Well... okay.
>>46685741
>You can't appreciate the elegant, novel absurdity of making your economy work by setting it up so that anyone who tries to hoard wealth nukes themselves?
no because the issues of being exposed to radiation from fucking plutonium would be a much bigger issue than the critical mass.
it's only like 25lbs of plutonium to make a critical mass but the radiation would kill you long before you would get there.
>>46681666
Not with lead, but you can cut Gold bars with Tungsten pieces.
There are tons of fake Gold Bars on the Darknet that are so advanced that they will stand up to X-ray analysis.
Lead probably wouldn't work, because of the lower melting point which makes it hard to just throw lead pieces into the mold before pouring the gold.
An alloy of any sort would be far too simple to detect however. Don't even think about it.
>>46685809
I'm well aware of that.
You're really kind've slow...
>>46685834
it's not funny if it's impossible.
pretty sure i heard about the edges of lead shielding at a russian reactor turning to gold (nuclear transmutation)... only down side is it'd be highly radioactive for tens of thousands of years...
anyways, why cut gold with lead when you can just transmute it!
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/generalchemistry/a/aa050601a.htm
>>46685902
It was a fucking SCIENCE FICTION NOVEL about FUCKING ROBOTS who were FUCKING IMMUNE to the FUCKING radiation, okay?
I found it hysterical.
>>46685943
>about FUCKING ROBOTS who were FUCKING IMMUNE to the FUCKING radiation
well you didn't mention this part. in that case it's humorous.
>>46681666
I was thinking of introducing my players to a midas touch character, or a counterfeiter, but my players like to fight so they would have probably just killed the guy and taken his gold, which would be boring for me.
This thread has the highest concentration of autism ive ever seen on /tg/
>>46681929
This. Flour is not soluble in water.
>>46686143
This is why I only get my coke cut with baking soda.
(its also a HELL of a lot easier to snort than motherfucking flour.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzaTP6s_HcY
>>46684125
>implying gold standard doesn't lead to even faster accumulation of wealth
Unless you want a society based on serf work then gold standard isn't golden.
>>46682348
>>46684474
You type like you grew up bathing in and drinking water delivered by lead pipes.
>>46681666
Yes thet have--and that's why aqua regia exists. Point one, for real-world alchemists.
>>46685902
>it's not funny if it's impossible.
You're on the Spectrum, aren't you?
Anon, have you ever felt like everybody else was just talking gibberish and the way that people behave around each other just doesn't make sense to you?
>>46684008
You're an idiot of extreme proportion :3
>>46685076
Praise be upon You
>>46685943
Was it Stanislaw Lem's Cyberiad short story? About the tyrant robot king who accidentally hoarded too much of plutonium money?
>>46685741
I think it is Hillarius
>>46685162
I think I also saw the same concept in some Asimov sci-fi anthology, where the same fate met the first alien in some society to invent greed and hoard too much of the warm coins made by their nation's alchemists.
