![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VFFCHpC.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Hey /tg/
How big are Space Marine weapons? How big would their bolter be vs a human sized bolter? Bolt Pistol vs Bolt Pistol?
Pretty big.
>>46679619For you
>>46679619
>>46679624
Sigh... This is my fault... I shouldn't have expected anything else...
>>46679593
Space Marine bolters are .75 caliber. Most human bolters will be .50, and lack the significant amount of gunpowder that serves as the initial kicker charge in space marine bolts. Humans trying to fire space marine versions of bolters will often struggle to even lift them or have their shoulder dislocated/severed tendons.
>>46679593
Depends on the source.
FFG says it's only the ergonomics and built quality, yet makes astartes weapons one size scale larger than normal weapons. In BL books you got humans using Marine bolters from just fine to looking like kids playing with real guns. In models the IG bolters and bolt pistols are pretty much in line with SM ones.
>>46679693
Okay, but what are their dimensions?
>>46679693
>Most human bolters will be .50
[citation needed]
>Humans trying to fire space marine versions of bolters will often struggle to even lift them or have their shoulder dislocated/severed tendons.
Pic related.
>>46679721
This guy is seven feet tall.
That boltgun he's holding is roughly the size of a man's torso, and weighs way, waaaay more.
>>46679737
>what are abhumans
No human is capable of wielding a fully automatic gun with any accuracy above .308 without a mounted bipod, let alone .50 or 19mm-20mm autocannons. Therefore those individuals are mutated human beings and not normal people.
>>46679788
Well, in fluff they're strong individuals, so I guess that means all humans in 40k universe are a bunch of beefcakes.
>>46679788
Space marines eat brains to gain memories
>>46679737
Top middle is a twin linked heavy stubber.
Bottom right looks like a twin linked auto cannon.
>>46679819
And space marines are Homo astartes, freak mutants resulting from children being pumped full of posthuman blood, flesh, and genetic coding.
>>46679812
Thirty-eight thousand years of evolution and genetic engineering will do that to you.
>>46679693
>>46679737
>>46679788
There was a character in the Gaunt's Ghosts books who wielded two autocannons welded together. And he was a normal human....
>>46679861
But hey, at least it's not a bolter. Those would just fuck you up.
>>46679886
Anybody who wields a 20mm+ fully automatic weapon firing rounds at mach 1 or above without ripping out his arms from the recoil or even able to aim the damn thing is not human.
It's between 2.5 and 3 feet of nearly solid metal.
That's something like 350-500lbs.
>>46679926
maybe future weapons tech has better recoil absorption than our current stuff
>>46679886
well at least he wasn't dual-wielding them...
>>46679737
>>46679788
>>46679693
>implying games workshop know what they're doing
>>46679863
wait? the fluff says they're homo astartes? that means they are fertile and can reproduce. having a scientific name like that requires the ability to reproduce, its the reason mules do not have a scientific name.
>>46679693
>>46679737
>>46679788
>>46679886
>>46679926
>40k fluff is inconsistent
Gee, who'd have thought?
>>46680008
It's not helped by people making up fanwank and passing it as actual fluff.
>>46680002
>having a scientific name like that requires
these are 40k names, not real people names
>>46679593
About the size of a toddler, four times as heavy, and half as loud.
>>46680327
Bolters are way fucking bigger than a toddler.
>>46679624
HAhah OMG LMAO I AM DIEING I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!! HAHAH HOLY SHIT XD XD
>>46679737
>what is pic related
That pic is humans wielding human sized bolters.
Space marine bolters are significantly larger. Also. Don't pretend that GW models and there fucked up sizes have anything to do with fluff and canon.
>>46680671
I hope you're trolling, but here goes nothing...
Those are heavy bolters, an autocannon (in the text), twin-heavy stubber and a twin-autocannon. It's not just the models, in the fluff they use those weapons as well. All without busting themselves up. But dear lord if we listen to fanwank and assume bolters are not for human use and will rip your arms out if you shoot it.
>>46681016
Prove they're the same calibre then. "Autocannon" and "bolter" do not come in universal calibres.
>>46679737
That one guy on the right looks like he's having the time of his life with that thing.
>>46679737
Those guys are either hard-core hive gangers or Catachans. Both of which are half-way to Ogryn. Which are stronger than Space Marines.
So it makes sense.
>>46681052
no. but any autocannon is going to be bigger than any bolter.
Why put a scope on a pistol? Or any one handed weapon
>>46681016
How is that trolling? I know exactly what those weapons are, I play the fucking game too.
I am saying that space marine bolters and human bolters are two different sizes. Like they literally do no fit in human hands because they are designed to be wielded by fuck-huge mutant autistic killing machines.
Obviously they have to have an examples of super badass manly men soldier guys single handedly wielding the biggest weapons like a fucking giant anime sword. But that has nothing to do the the fact that grip on a space marine bolter is probably wider around than that guys bicep.
>>46681956
>>46681956
linked to the armour's autosenses n stuff
>>46681956
same reason as real life. improved aiming precision.
>>46681956
>>46681956
>>46679788
Excuse me sir do you have a minute to talk about our beloved M60 Machine Gun
>>46682361
You mean the machine gun that has the exact same caliber and the M14m
>>46680616
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
>>46679693
All bolters are .75. Heavy bolters are higher than that, but unspecified. There is no conclusive evidence that human bolters are different from marine bolters.
>>46681613
>time of his life
>cue Righteous Brothers
>>46680616
Get this hothead outta here!
>>46680197
>have models, pictures and writing of regular humans carrying fuckhuge guns since rogue trader
>must b fanwank bc i no like, is impossible
>>46681613
Fucker looks like he just opened that bad boy up on Christmas day.
He got a crate of ammo to go with it and his dad tied up a bunch of eldar to stakes in the backyard for target practice.
>>46679693
>Humans trying to fire space marine versions of bolters will often struggle to even lift them or have their shoulder dislocated/severed tendons.
Children can do it. iirc ultramarines or some chapter test out potential recruits by seeing if they can handle the recoil.
The fluff about bolters ripping people's arms off and embedding them in the wall, taken in conjunction with this, implies either inconsistent fluff (duh) or UM are epin branksters.
The idea of gyrojet weaponry having xbawks hueg recoil (let alone recoil that would destroy a human being) in particular hurts my brain. The whole point of gyrojet is so you don't have to have fearsome recoil.
>>46679737
>Pic related.
It's outright stated, actually. I don't know anything about non-space marine bolters regarding their caliber or recoil, but I do imagine the models with those weapons in your pic are firing weapons tailored to be fired by humans and not rip off their arms. Sure, it'll kick and they have to be goliath stronk, but there is an outspoken, if never specifically defined, difference between human bolters and space marine bolters.
>>46682587
My bolter sergeant is carrying something roughly the size of his torso, so i think the gun is probably the same one a space marine would get, but a shittier pattern.
Honestly, the entire recoil thing is overblown all to fuck. The hell is with 40k? It's a goddamn gyrojet, like 70% of the propulsion should be short-burn solid rocket propellant. The initial charge could launch a big ass explosive .75 caliber shell at a "significant" velocity. With the kind of weight a .75 caliber explosive packet rocket shell would have, 300 m/s would be good enough to tear holes in all sorts of shit. A .50 BMG raufoss is heavy as shit, and it only uses ~300 grains of powder to travel a decent little bit over 900 m/s.
A shell could use as much powder as a .308 round to launch the shell at at least subsonic lethality speeds. Take that with the massive weight of those goddamn bolters(which the fantasy flight games books lists as 7 kg which is about what an EBR weight iirc) and the recoil is gonna be mostly controllable. Granted anyone without autosenses, power armor, and super human muscle mass are going to notice an unfortunate lack of accuracy. That's a problem with fully automatic guns in general though.
>>46679812
in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only beefy hot bodybuilders....how lewd
>>46679788
>No human is capable of wielding a fully automatic gun with any accuracy above .308 without a mounted bipod
but that's wrong you fucking retard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8zltpnqx0
>>46684425
and forgot to mention
>let alone .50
It isn't automatic, but this great man basically shoots it like it is
https://youtu.be/GXEK7rcqO-Y?t=100
>>46679593
Firstly,
Gyrojet ammunition, should have verylittle to no recoil, like shooting a 20mm grenade,low powder charge.
Secondly,
Laser guns apparently have recoil.
GW just doesn't understand firearms
Technically a stubber should have waaaaaay more recoil than a bolter.
A lasgun should have none
>>46680002
>science
>>46681774
No. Autocannons in 40k come in a variety of calibres both large and smaller than standard Astartes bolters (which are .75 calibre).
>>46684461
They're not pure gyrojets though, they're fired out of the gun with a powder charge like a normal bullet so as to have high muzzle speed and solve the problem of low bullet penetration at short range. The gyrojet is mainly to enhance the bullet's range and accuracy.
>>46680445
Consecrators are so fucking sexy
>>46679593
More importantly, should space marine bolters have a different statline than IG bolters since they are supposed to be much more powerful?
>>46682361
And what do you not understand about accuracy?
No human is capable of accurately firing an M60 except from a fixed position. The gun is heavy as fuck and the kick is insane, you are not going to fire effectively, not remotely, with sustained fire while shouldering it.
>>46682587
Kek
No they aren't kiddo. Bolters come in all kinds of different calibers. The Tigrus Bolter is .60. The bolters issued to Commissars are .50. The Godwyn is .75. Heavy Bolters are typically 1.00 but can vary based on model and era. There is no such thing as a standard boltgun caliber.
>>46683044
>The idea of gyrojet weaponry having xbawks hueg recoil (let alone recoil that would destroy a human being) in particular hurts my brain. The whole point of gyrojet is so you don't have to have fearsome recoil.
Boltguns are two stage weapons and are not pure gyrojets. Gyrojets will royally fuckup your gun, and thus bolts carry an initial gunpowder kick charge to send the bolt flying out of the barrel. After the bolt travels for a bit the gyrojet kicks in and the bolt whizzes off at anywhere from subsonic to hypersonic speeds depending on the load. This way the boltgun's barrel is spared the intense heat of rocket ammunition, and is why bolts are not caseless.
>>46684425
So he can consistently hit something within 300 meters with anything but semiautomatic fire?
It doesn't matter if you CAN fire it. You both have to be able to fire it and to accurately hit shit or you're just wasting ammunition. And while suppression may be viable with .308 and similar cartridges, .75 and you're just shitting money everywhere. Same with 20mm and larger autocannon shells.
>>46684638
Someone told me they fire 20mm grenade rounds.
>>46684861
Modern Astartes Bolters are .75 caliber two stage gyrojet rockets, firing what is basically miniaturized HEAT rounds on the scale of a jetfighter's autocannon. They're much-much-much better than 20mm grenades and have vastly higher penetration ability. Along with a whole host of abilities depending on their load.
>>46682587
>All bolters are .75.
>>46680616
>>46682065
So a "human sized" heavy bolter is smaller with smaller cartridges and smaller charges than a regular Marine bolter? Same with a twin-autocannon and a Marine bolter. Is this what you're trying to say?
>>46682772
How about you show me all the sources for .50 caliber human bolters that are barely bolt pistols in marine hands, or how an autocannon and heavy bolter have less recoil than a bolter?
>>46683554
>bolt pistol will rip your arm off
>heavy bolter and autocannon won't
Consistency!
>>46684553
>smaller than standard Astartes bolters
Yet pack more punch and don't have the assistance of a rocket engine.
>>46685074
>HH marines were manlets
Like we didn't already know that.
>>46686500
>space marine's bolter will rip your arm off
>minutorium heavy bolter and autocannon won't
Although, granted, both of the latter usually require a fully mounted assembly and two guardsmen to fire them, so even then...
>>46679926
Skinny guy who never shot in his pathetic life spotted
>>46685074
>semi-selective fire
So it's somewhat selective, somewhat not?
>>46686562
Yet we have examples of unaugmented, strong individuals who carry those guns in their hands and fire them without fucking themselves up.
>>46679886
Try-Again-Bragg.'
What you're leaving out is he could never HIT anything, the damn things sprayed all over like wacky water weasel. They used it for suppression and hoarde fights.
>>46684731
muh dick. fuck this stupid thread and tell me about this chapter
>>46686580
To be fair, IRL we have people who fire stupidly huge guns (admittedly not on auto) despite them normally requiring a mount or to be fired when prone.
Really the only stupid bit is the "bolter will rip your arm off if you try and fire it", when it's quite clear that that's "the space marine will rip your arm of if you try and fire his bolter"
>>46686634
>whispers into your ear in a sexy voice
They're a chapter.... who keeps.... lost relics.... from the dawn of the Imperium.....their Grand Master is an Interrogator Chaplain.....who wields a heavenfall blade....... and they all wear MK 6 or older armor.
>>46686580
But those people are always noted as being exceptionally strong to the point of being compared to Ogryn or Space Marines. They are very definitely not the kind of person who should be used as an example of whether a weapon is man-fireable or not because they're the extreme tip of the scale.
>>46686727
>"Only fighters with appropriate technical skills can hope to own heavy weaponry of this kind, though most gangs have one or two fighters who carry heavy weapons. These individuals are known as ‘heavies’ on account of the weapons they carry and also because they tend to be big, muscular fighters able to bear the weight of their weapon, ammunition and spares."
>"They are bigger and burlier than ordinary gangers on account of the weight of the gear they carry! Heavies are also technicians – good at fixing or making things."
>"Heavies are heavily built or physically fit individuals well suited to lugging round heavy weaponry. They are also technically competent."
Don't see the Necromunda book saying anything about heavies being exceptionally strong, nor anything near ogryns or space marines. It seems more like their strength is about carrying the gun and munitions than fighting the recoil.
But the point is more that if a heavy bolter, which fires a bigger round with more recoil, is capable of being fired by a strong individual, how is a bolter, with a smaller round and less recoil, beyond human capability?
>>46684651
they do in the rpgs
>>46679593
Yeah it's smurfs, but this is a pretty good showing of bolter size compared to both space marines and humans. You can also see a bolt pistol in the last few seconds on the captain's hip.
https://youtu.be/Yl0XFLjmu2U?list=PL-VbE9PRlp80fOgb7CgSaieETSWTTDP-q
>>46687098
While telling us that bolters are .75 caliber and difference between marine and non-marine ones is ergonomics and build quality.
Consistency!
>>46684652
You're not gonna fire any portable weapon in full auto with any modicum of accuracy if you don't have a support period.
Which is fine since accuracy isn't your primary concern when laying down suppressive fire, especially in a testosterone-rich setting like 40k.
Wish I still had that gif of soldiers hipshooting AA-52s in full-auto while advancing.
>>46679693
No they arnt.
Marine bolters are .998 (25mm)
Humans are .775 (20mm)
This is cannon from the game Space Marine.
As one anon previously said, the recoil should be very minimal. However considering that bolts are not entirly gyroget; they are seen to eject cartridges as they fire, which suggests they are part bullet, part gyroget. This is also part of 40k cannon (if someone posts up that picture of the internals of a storm bolter)
>>46689757
>This is cannon from the game Space MarineNo, this is bolter.
> part bullet, part gyroget
This is already well established.
>>46689757
>arnt
>.998
>.775
>cannon
>Space Marine game
Why aren't trolls even trying anymore?
>>46689757
>This is cannon from the game Space Marine.
lol
>>46681766
>Catachans
>Stronger than Space Marines
>>46690890
He said Ogryns are stronger than space maringes and Catachans are half way to Ogryn, perhaps implying half the strength of an Ogryn.
>ITT
>autism
>>46686471
Not him but I think 2nd Ed. Wargear book has something about Autocannons and their low recoil, not 100% sure, though and don't have the book on hand.
>>46691265
Fuck, forgot to add that Bolter-type weapons have no recoil at all because of the bullets charge igniting outside of the barrel according to some stories/books (Inquisitor trilogy for example).
>>46686580
>>46679788
For fuck sake, calibre means almost nothing. Case dimensions and projectile weight determine the energy or a round.
There are a bunch of 50 cal cartridges ranging from pistol rounds to heavy machine gun rounds.
Plus boltgun ammunition is consistently described as rocket propelled with a kicker charge so recoi will be dramatically lower than conventional ammunition with a similar projectile weight since muzzle velocity will be relatively low.
>>46689863
>it's not canon if I don't like it
>>46684652
>The gun is heavy as fuck and the kick is insane
If it's heavy then recoil will be reduced.
If it's firing the same round as the M14 whilst being way heavier then it's recoil will be lower.
This should be obvious even if you've never fired either.
>>46691308
The rocket ignites outside of the the barrel. What pushes the bolt out of the gun is the primary charge, housed in a casing like a regular bullet. Otherwise the bolt would have shit velocity from the muzzle and suck ass at close ranges. The bolt needs enough speed to be deadly at point blank ranges.
>>46691529
>muzzle velocity will be relatively low.
Which is counter-intuitive, seeing how marines are an assault force fighting at short ranges and in enclosed spaces. Giving them a weapon that does jack shit up close is bad. The bolt needs to have enough velocity from the muzzle to do damage.
Also, do give examples of bolter cartridges in other style than the traditional straight pistol style one. Because I have not seen a single one ever.
>>46691578
I'm guessing the important bit there is "sustained fire".
>>46689757
And your opinion goes in the trash, because Space Marine neither lists the calibers for bolters, and only a newfag would mistake a Godwyn for .998 when they are .75.
>>46691529
That kicker charge is still accelerating the bolt to supersonic or hypersonic speeds (depending on load) before the rocket takes over, as there is no triple-crack from a boltgun (bolt firing, then going supersonic a stage later, then impact).
>>46686564
20mm is like twice a typical sniper round.
An autocannon is like the cannons you find on helicopters and shit. It might not rip your arm off but it would bloody well try.
>>46680445
>>46680445
Toddlers are about 2.5 - 3ft tall. Space marines are about 7ft, so the bolter in that picture is in fact toddler sized.
