give me ONE GOOD REASON why girls can't be space marines
I've long stopped caring.
>>46661003
man i miss when spartan armor wasn't form fitting. that doesn't even look like power armor
>>46661003
Because the Emperor said so. We all know what ignoring his will is, right?
Now get back in line and shut up, because you better not get the rest of us BLAM'd.
Because a boys club never adapted to the times?
Because is not canon
Even minor variations of simple technology are beyond the ability of the current Imperium, and turning someone into a space marine is significantly more complicated than that. If the process exists it was because it was invented ten thousand years ago (maybe the two missing chapters?) or because Fabius Bile made some as an experiment.
>>46661145
>roleplaying in a thread on 4chan
40cucks are a blight
>>46661145
>>Because the Emperor said so. We all know what ignoring his will is, right?
The only correct answer.
>>46661003
Geneseed and the implanted organs and retrovirus do not play well with female physiology
>>46661003
Because the whole process of making space marines is designed to only work with males. It would be like trying to use a wood carving knife on a lump of obsidian.
>>46661003
Even the outside chance of a posthuman species that breeds true.
>>46661192
Either you are new to 4chan or /tg/ or dumb
>>46661003
No Y chromosome.
>>46661003
They can, they just turn into males as a side effect of the process.
>>46661003
Emperor said no, and while maternity leave might be a thing in mentally fucked nations, it loses "soldiers" and ergo wars.
>>46661003
The Sisters of Battle exist.
>>46661003
Because the target audience is single white men? GW won't even admit that they need functional rules and affordable models to stay in business, much less that they may need to widen their target demographic.
That said, you want female marines, make some and play them, no one is stopping you.
The Emperor was lazy, and GW doesn't want to have to perform a retcon on that scale.
>>46661003
The process doesn't work on qt grills and the Imperium isn't so big on that whole radical innovation thing.
>>46661476
Not for long.
because its been established lore for decades, and while diversity is a noble goal and certainly should be pursued in any new IPs, ripping apart a long established setting that millions love and grew up with just to shove some representation into the ragged holes in it's corpse is a dick move.
>>46661003
>look mom I posted it again!
Do you need to do this every day?Sisters of Battle exist. Stop embarrassing yourself.
>>46661003
The presence of Male disposability promotes the theme of the backwater nature of the Imperium of Man.
>>46661003
Bolter Bitches already effectively fill that role
>Butt dere just reglar hoomans!
They're still the super-elite soldiers that all get to stomp around in power armor.
>>46661003
Geneseed is based on the primarchs, who are all men. Therefore all Space Marines are men. Even if you did genetically modify a woman to have the same size and strength that a Space Marine has, it wouldn't be a Space Marine.
In the same sense, no man can ever be a Sister of Battle as they are forbidden from having men at arms. Yet nobody fucking complains that there are no male Sisters of Battle with their special faith based powers.
>>46662011
>Yet nobody fucking complains that there are no male Sisters of Battle
Mostly because people these days mostly complain there are no Sister of Battle about at all.
Same reason why men can't be: space marines are a figment of imagination and don't actually exist.
Because Sisters of Battle are way cooler.Besides, there'd be virtually no difference--visible or otherwise--between a male and a female Space Marine, since turning a human into a marine requires genetically altering them, surgically reconstructing their bodies, pumping them full of artificial hormones, and sterilizing them. It's like asking why there are no female Orks. For all intents and purposes, they're genderless.
>>46661145
>>46661194
This doesn't account for Chaos not making CSM out of females.
Honestly, if I believe that GW could do the concept well, I would totally like female CSM.
>>46662110
CSM can't do it because it requires serious genetic engineering chops that the Imperium and most of the galaxy has long since lost. They're literally just aping things that their ancestors ancestors ancestors... (x62 times) ancestors barely knew how to do.
>>46662110
the only purpose women have in chaos marine armies is being a part of the daemonculaba
>>46661003
There isn't one, because they are.
>>46661003
you realize men aren't even space marines, right? Space marines are genderless abominations that reproduce asexually.
Bolter bitches are the closest thing to humans the imperium has above the guard simply because they're just cyborgs in power armor.
>>46661003
>give me ONE GOOD REASON why girls can't be space marines
40K logic.
>>46661560
why does the current lore hate bolter bitches so much? It's like a constant tide of shit that covers them.
Whenever something serious happens, TEN MILLION BOLTER BITCHES DEAD but that's okay there was a single ultramarine there at the time that fixed everything.
>>46661003
Because the process kills 99% of the fittest human males.
Killing 99.9% of the fittest human females wouldn't be worth the effort.
21st century feminism killed equality. That's why.
Adeptus sororitas ARE female space marines, you fucking sjew shill.
>>46662477
No they ain't
>>46661003
Because part of making a space marine is inserting a bunch of genetics from other dudes.
>There was this dude named "The Emperor"
>Science altered a bunch of dudes and put Emperor DNA in them to make some dudes called Primarchs
>Now we take Primarch DNA and make dudes called Space Marines
I actually think it's more sexist to complain that there aren't female space marines than to assume that a handful of genetic modifications based on the DNA of men after two generations of genetic tampering might not work on women. Seriously. The geneseed not working on women makes perfect sense.
The Sisters of Battle exist because of a rule in the Ecclesiarchy preventing them from having "men of arms" and no one ever accuses them of being a sexist organization despite the fact that the only reason they don't have men is literally that they don't allow them.
>>46662350
No.
Strictly speaking astartes are genetically modified humans. Far as I know nothing prevents them from being considered the male version of what they are. As previously noted we can't make female astartes but because of that we can't exactly say they're genderless.
The fluff says that you can't make female space marines. Because there are no female astartes we've never had to ask "can astartes breed".
It's sorta like how sterile mules still have genders. They have a gender, they just can't do much with it.
>>46662477
>no implants
>worship emprah, always
>magic faith powers
>not broken up into chapters as per the codex
>not 12000000000000 feet tall with 11 hearts and shit
>>46662668
>The Sisters of Battle exist
Not right now, they don't
>Thread up for an hour and a half.
>ND hasn't posted in it yet
The retard must be under a 3 day ban then. Shame it isn't a permanent one.
>>46662713
Again, not actually my point.
Just replace that with "when they existed" for all I care.
My point still remains that their lore literally was them being a "no boys allowed club" because "Ecclesiarchy rules say so" and no one fucking batted an eye at it.
My position on the whole thing:
Space Marines: A bunch of male super genetics being spliced into women working badly makes perfect sense, leave it alone and don't complain
Sister's of Battle: The rule is stupid, the work around is stupid, but the end result is fucking cool. Leave it alone and haters gonna hate.
>>46661003
From the line structure in the catalog, I thought you asked us to give you one good reason why the Spice Girls couldn't be Marines.
I can't think of any.
If you have female and male space Marines, they can beget more space Marines.
Then humanity becomes obsolete, the opposite of what the Emperor wanted.
>>46661003
The Emperor optimized process for mass producing supersoldiers. Male subjects showed lesser risk of rejection and death and were over all more efficient. It doesn't mean that Adeptus Custodes can't be girls. Imperium can and does produce female superhumans like Assassins but it's more time and resource consuming process than Astartes creation.I want to see catfight between female Custodes and Daughters of the Emperor during Age of Apostasy
>>46661003
The fluff doesn't support it.
There is no reason they couldn't exist theoretically op. But it's out right stated that the emperor made the process for men only and anybody who is fucking around with the hyper impossible science to make new ones is going to be chaos tainted.
Lets not forget there are plenty of female CHAOS spess mawheens.
>>46661003
Its inefficient to design an additional treatment and geneseed for women. Men also have brains wired for spatial reasoning which is fairly handy when you want a supersoldier.
>>46662389
They aren't super popular but GW doesn't want to get rid of them.
>>46662104
Orks are genderless anon.
>>46664415
That was his point. Space Marines are pretty much sexless anyway.
>>46662104
>pumping them full of artificial hormones, and sterilizing them
Do you have source for that?
>>46661003
Why would you need to make an already complex tech even harder to pull off for the sake of having female warriors when men are enough and and start as a better base?
Considering that
Men>women
Men+augmentations >women+augmentations
That space marines are not supposed to have huge numbers, so the reason to have females for a larger amount of test subjects is moot
That space marines should not be capable of reproducing on their own
And that pulling females into military rather than more men damages more the numbers of the populations
There's no reason to have female space marines bar the desires of attentions of people who don't see both sexes as equals
There's no need for forced integration to have equal representation
40k has equal representation since where such a thing is a possibility, to have a male or a female changes little in the way of actions and characterization, see inquisitors, assassins, even members of the imperial guard or an hypothetic comparison we could make between a power armored but not augmented man and a sister of battle
>inb4 but those are insetting arbitrations
Yes, but that's not a reason enough to ignore them, or why wouldn't we have redempted tyranid space marines or psychic ponies serving in the imperium or a half-eldar-half-ork heterochromatic teenager using chaos against the chaos gods?
>>46661003
The only reason that matters and that will ever matter is because GW said no.
No matter how much mental gymnastics you pull, no matter the meta, canon, fanon, head-canon, what-eveanon, the only reason is GW said no.
Shouldn't stop you from making your own though. Just don't expect much from other players except >'Buh mah canon'
>>46661003
>man and woman are equal in everything right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology#Muscle_mass_and_strength
Because space marines were designed to be tools and disposable. After the Emps would have conquered the galaxy and got the human webway working, >90 % (my approximation) of space marines would have become obsolete.
Men being disposable and their value being based solely on what the can do is like gorillion year old trope.
>>46661003
The complex procedures that create Space Marines are fine tuned to male biology.
>>46664400
They were more popular then Grey Knights and Dark Eldar were when they got updated.
From what little has been said GW actually was going to update the Sisters right after DE but small casting issues like Hair set it back and then the higher-ups canned it for reasons that have never been explained.
>>46661003
They would die due to the chemical and genetic changes that are applied to novices.
>>46662110
>implying some of the Emperor's Children aren't already female/male/androgynous/both/neither
>>46664312
No matter which party lost the fight, everyone else would win.
>>46662110
They can barely suceed with their current process, why should they accept weaker aspirants.
But hey if a female manages to murder her way through enough competition it might happen.
>>46664484
Either psychologically or physically, the sex drive in most SM chapters is gone.
>>46661003
Because the genetic enhancements would kill them.
Besides, women can be literally any other faction in 40k.
>>46664312
Reminder that Assassins are actually better than non-named SM as well.
>>46661003
Shitty base stock, you'd be left with short as fuck marines whose bodies broke down much faster than a mans.
Really the same reason there's no female marines in real life either.
>>46661003
Because they'd just fuck it up. The Horus Heresy was bad enough, can you imagine if women ever achieved true special snowflake status by being an astartes? It'd cripple humanity worse than the Eldar.
Women are egotistical, selfish, and willfully ignorant. Any Imperial planet worth a damn goes above and beyond to constrain the rights of women. I'm not going to tell any individual sector how to govern it's women but they best be governing them somehow. We normally associate Slaanesh with women because well, women are hedonistic fools who only think about themselves... but have you seen how posssesive and downright evil women can get? Khorne. How calculated and insane they get? Tzeetch. And by 40 they all look like Nurgle.
Women are the epitome of chaos. It is proof that we as humans are flawed and born into sin. Only through the god Emperor can we cleanse ourselves of womanly filth and become divine men. Aka: The space marine.
>>46662110
Chaos needs soldiers to win actual battles, moral victories don't count.
Because despite the low survival rate that females would have due to the process of creating space marines;
and despite the fact that females are infinitely more valuable to the Imperium at large raising the next generation of Guardsmen/Marines than dying unceremoniously on a battlefield;
and despite the fact that after all the testosterone treatments that Space Marines are subject to, your "Female Space Marine" would be indistinguishable from a male one;
and despite the fact that the Emperor himself did not allow females to be come space marines, possibly as a method of not allowing space marines even the most infinitesimally small chance of reproducing and then feeding Chaos/Heretics a never-ending supply of super soldiers;
even if they did somehow become cannon and were included in 40k lore, the very same people who bitch, whine, and moan about putting female space marines in would then find some other reason to be discontent with them, leaving both the dedicated fanbase (aka the people who actually pay money for this stuff) and the current "progressive" crybabies unhappy.
>>46661003
>Using Samus
Goddammit anon, your example is unfair here.
Emps made men Space Marines because the Primarchs were men themselves, hence why the whole geneseed and enhanced organs thing is only compatible with men.
>>46665151
>and despite the fact that females are infinitely more valuable to the Imperium at large raising the next generation of Guardsmen/Marines than dying unceremoniously on a battlefield;
This bit in particular is my only point of contention. The Imperium does not have a human shortage. There are a shitload of non-hive worlds with more humans than there are on Earth today. There are definitely lower population death worlds where you're absolutely right but in the grand scheme of things no way in hell. As 50% of an entire humongous galaxy spanning species this is one of the few settings where women can be in all sorts canon fodder roles. A few million women died? Well, we have several trillions more on that nearby hive world, and of those trillions several million gave birth today to a bunch of baby boys and *girls*. So, who gives a shit. Human lives are cheap in 40k.
The biological modifications required to become a Space Marine is already difficult enough with males, they would be totally incompatible with female anatomy. This is explained in the fiction of 40k.
Now, if there were some other sort of procedure that had a similar effect on females, then they could become something similar to a Space Marine, but not an actual one.
>>46665304
in smaller conflicts, yes women can perform the role of soldiers at a moments notice. a few million isn't a big deal. But those numbers add up over time. a few million becomes a hundred million, which becomes a few billion, and so forth and so forth.
The only reason the imperium has this excessive amount of cannon fodder is because women keep pumping babies out and not dying. One woman can give birth to well over a dozen humans for the imperium to throw into the meat grinder. trading her life for that of a few Orks would be a huge mismanagement of resources, many times more so when it's millions of women who die killing just a few more orks.
>>46665349
>This is explained in the fiction of 40k.
You know that they could just change the fiction, right?
There aren't any female space marines because somebody decided there aren't, not because the immutable rules of an entirely made-up universe forbid it.
The company that owns the fiction could, likewise, decide that now there ARE female marines. Hell, they could decide that there have always been female marines in the fictional world that they created and own.
That's how fiction works.
>>46661003
girls are weaker, why would you want them in your army when their basic genes make them less powerful.
(also there is no geneseed that a female body would adapt)
>>46661003
Drugs affect men and women differently. The drugs used on space marines dont work on women as intended. Probably kills them.
>>46661003
Because you're playing 40k instead of a system where you can make a marine that can be female and whose job normally takes place in space? And they didn't want to deal with the august who would say realistically there would be no difference between external appearance besides the bits between their legs?
>>46661003
Incompatible genetics. It would have a 100% chance of failure.
>>46661003
Because girls are icky
>>46665413
They could also introduce ewoks that shit exterminatus. Hopefully they won't because it's as stupid as a weak female SM
>>46661513
>Because the target audience is single white men
Precisely. We don't want no wimin'folk. We want beefy displays of manhood. Wimin' are gay.
>>46661003
Because gw suck at sculpting women's faces?
>>46661003
Biology.>inb4 biology is a social construct
>>46666209
I don't know, I mean the Jokaero are halfway there.
>>46666447Transmarines
>>46666496
So basically like Michelangelo's women, which are just buff dudes with tits.
Because WH40K is an extremely archetypal form of power fantasy, based on appeal to concepts much older and more basal than modern political correctness bullshit: and there is actually no reason (aside from purely political, that is demanding that a fiction reflects contemporary political ideology) why that should change.
>>46666240
>hating on beefy displays of manhood
Get a load of this heretic.
>>46666240
Nothing more manly than wrestling down a powerful man and having a powerfuck. No challenge in gently fucking a waifish woman who breaks when you sneeze. Fucking woman is faggotry.
>>46661003
Because 40K is a dystopian setting, and egalitarianism doesn't jibe with that.
>>46661003
>>give me ONE GOOD REASON why girls can't be space marines
They are icky and not cool like the boys!
>>46666634
Pretty egalitarian imho. Both genders have equal opportunities to be killed, raped, eaten, torture, and all of the above.
>>46666694
And when it comes to the sweet positions of power (hint a space marine cannot into those) they are pretty much open to men, women and toasters.
>>46664415
>reading comprehension
>>46661003
Biology, to be a space marine you need XY chromosomes like the Emperoer
>>46661640
I'm fully against the female SM but SoB aren't the same as SM
40kTheories in Youtube made pretty informative video about this topic.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l01dhjlDrHk
Technologically it is possible to create females that bear the geneseed. It has been done by the Iron Warriors, genetically modifying and mutating female slaves to become living incubators to artificially implant their wombs with their genetic material to birth new Chaos space Marines.
These horribly warped, mutated and disfigured creatures are, strictly on the genetic level, equivalent to female space marines.
So the technology is all there to make it possible they just don't do it for countless other reasons.
have some HUEG Samus armor
>>46666985
>superwomen are horrific, disfigured creatures whose only purpose is to birth men
oh GW
>>46661003
Because women are generally smart enough t realize that turning yourself into some kind of over sized mutant soldier to serve some guy in a chair is a bad idea.
>>46661003
Slaanesh allready has enought cocksleeves. Also we need children to absorb the losses from fighting all the 1000000000 wars we're involved in right now and every woman to the front is at least 4 possible pregnacies that won't materialize.
You might not have realized it but after 10000 years of grim darkness the imperium has got surviving to the unsurvivable down to a science.
>>46661003
Crunch: Because SoB exist and GW are bunch of grumpy old men. Also because no one with two braincells to rub together cares because of the fluff reasons.
Fluff: Because Space Marines are Transhuman Super Soldiers made (physically) through an incredibly complex and delicate combination of gene therapy, large amounts of chemicals and hormones and surgically implanting 20 organs made with the same DNA source as the other treatments. Even with the absurd tech used by the Imperium at it's greatest and the increased candidacy requirements post Heresy the process fails through rejection or complications often, leaving the hopeful at best a failure, or crippled or dead at worst.
The Emperor killed hundreds of thousands of loyal and willing men, maybe more, getting this process right. He didn't bother to do it for females because the difference in biology and chemistry is great enough that he'd end up killing as many or more women trying to make it work a second time. Why would he murder loyal subjects to replicate something he's already done?
And it's not like anyone but him has the knowledge to even attempt it for all that there are plenty who'd be willing to try.
Now instead of shitposting an OP, try reading some lore before you type diarreah next time.
/fit/ here.
If you give a woman the right PEDs she'll end up looking like a man because the bones in your face can actually change shape post puberty.
So even if you made a female space marine, she would not retain her femininity. Even her wide hips would be masked by the huge amounts of muscle she would gain (this happens today even).
Also consider the selection process. Name the hardest military recruitment programs on Earth. Then look for all the women who succeeded in them without any kind of affirmative action bs or extra support. Space marine selection would be harder, so there is simply no chance a woman could get through without resorting to huge amounts of PEDs before she even began the space marine augmentation process.
Because space marines are so radically different from your average human, that they might as well be another race, except one basically superior in every way.
The Emperor created space marines as warriors and protectors of humanity, not as replacements. If female space marines were created, then he'd have created an artificial superior race to replace humans. With just one gender though, they remain as warriors.
To that end, he could just as easily have made the designated gender for space marines to have been female instead of male, but the space marines were designed for combat and on average males are more combat capable than females so it stands to reason that even if the difference is very small (though still vastly superior to your average human), for simple base efficiency purposes choosing males was the logical option.
>inb4 space marines are sterile
You're missing the point.
>>46664687
>hurr durr canon doesn't matter.
I guess making Eldar that are actually magical horses that worship Slaanesh and fart lasers is kosher too.
>>46667176
>Even her wide hips
Space marines recruit adolescents. Given the kind of hormone levels the progenoids pump into aspirants, they'd look identical to the men by the end of it. No time for puberty, gotta purge fast.
the only people who would seriously want female marines are those tumor muscle fetishists you see on places like deviantart
>>46667390
Adolescence is teen years m8. Chicks develop hips and tits during that time.
>>46661003
Women don't even make good RL marines. Why would they be allowed in a group that's ostensibly more elite?
>>46666496
>>46661107
Who gives a shit about Halo by this point?
>>46661145
If I recall it's because he made the primarchs all male, and this was deliberate, he wanted to create living weapons to defend humanity, not replace humanity
>>46670395
/vr/, it's their bogeyman.
>>46661577
I agree, though my love of both 40k and post human amazons means I can still dream
>>46662110
They probably already do. Mutations, blessings, and other weird warp-changes can give you female Chaos marines in a variety of ways.
Granted its about equal odds to become a spawn or whatever, but that's the way with Chaos.
Of course, the fact that they logically exist isn't enough for some people. They really really really want female Space Marines, but aren't willing to go through the effort of converting some for the place they fit into lore.
Guys, what if Thunder Warriors could be female?
>>46670395
... I do...
MODS I'M BEING TRIGGERED!
Oh wait thats right we don't have janitors.
Why not just make SoB cool again?
>>46662477
No they aren't. They are the Ecclesiarchy paying out of it's nose to spoil their own private army that is at it's core, a legalistic dodge of the stricture they have no "men" at arms or some such, akin to Medieval Bishops reasoning that while it would be inappropriate for them to wield a sword, beating peoples brains out with a mace or a stout stick was fine.
And they are spoiled. Power Armor is eye watering in it's expense, as are the rest of the toys they get. Although the interfaces aren't as refined as Marine Carapace ones, you don't see line troops with Power Armor in the Imperium. It is usually the purview of extremely high ranking officials like Inquisitors or "Fighting General" types. (Although they get shinier power armor, of course, in accordance with their rank.)
Marines are also seriously enhanced otherwise, and even at the low end are still physically better than other troopers. Soritas are an army of exceptionally tough chicks who are as tough as the tough tough men in the Guard, which is pretty nuts, actually. A lot of societies or planets in the Imperium seem to have gender differences like ours, and women are less strong and tough. Maybe they draw a lot of Catachans. Maybe they just scoop up the one in a 100 million candidates that are as tough as Guard quality male troops. (Which is tough. Those guys only look like pussies compared to Marines. By any other standard, they would be the best around. Usually they are because of how few Marines there are.)
>>46670855
For what purpose?
>>46670906
Did somebody say medieval loopholes?
ITT: the Thermian argument
>>46665033
Not Orks (reproduce through spores), probably not Tyranids (reproduce by ... regurgitating their stomach acid and diving into it to die IIRC?), and not Necrons (don't reproduce).
Though you could make a case for Tyranids (genestealers, at least) and Necrons (formerly gendered).
>>46671211
Tyranids have giant monsters dedicated to birthing large quantities of gaunts. They're very female.
>>46671183
"I don't like it, so it's wrong" the post.
>>46661003
Because they can barely perform as conventional Marines.
>>46670416
Malcador asked him to create female primarchs and he thought it was a joke.
Male primarchs and male marines are just as much a threat to humanity as female marines though. It's obvious, they can enslave humanity and harvest it for marine candidates - since marines are made, not born, this is the only way female marines could reproduce too.
To be honest there was no reason except that GW decided it in the 80's when female supersoldiers and whatever weren't really even given thought. All the justifications came much later. If 40k came out in the 2000's there'd probably be female marines.
>>46666874
pretty cool though
>>46661003
Why is so important? I don't see people trying to force male sisters of battle or female orks or clearly sexually diferenciated eldar
>>46672087
Eldar already have boobplate though.
cause the marines and primarchs are based on his own genetic code. had he been female, we would've had female marines and primarchs.
>>46672103
>boobplate
Even the males have boobplate, is still hard as fuck to know which is which.
>>46672037
Now I am legitimately curious as to which "pri"marchs would be female if it came out in 2000's. No waifushit.
>>46672170
Probably all the girliest chapters, and it'd still only be a handful. Sanguinius and Fulgrim are obvious candidates.
>>46672087
>Why is so important?
Its just trolling to get replies.
>>46672206
I'm pretty sure that a bunch of lost worlds whose faith has changed over the years believe Sanguinius was female.
>>46661003
The massive physical inadequacy inherent to women
>>46672170
Vulkan, Fulgrim (for Ferrus drama), Jagathai, Lorgar (now called Eve)
>>46672237
>trolling
Is it really? I've seen enough tumblrinas and SJW complain that I'm starting to think they're actually serious.
>>46662668
>Because there are no female astartes we've never had to ask "can astartes breed".
Even if we put aside GW's (and /tg/'s) nonexistent grasp of how genetic changes and reproduction work, how is space marines breeding supposed to produce a functioning version of a creature that needs half its organs synthetically crafted and then implanted? Those organs are not part of the space marine's DNA, no matter how you slice it.
>>46672237
Orcs aren't trolls.
>>46672343
This. The offspring of a Space Marine and a female Space Marine (or indeed the offspring of a Space Marine and any human) would be another human.
Their implants done give their dick gene-seed implanting powers or anything. Its just gonna be a normal child. Mabye a bit better odds of them not rejecting geneseed, but that's about it.
>>46661003
No, because even if I were to expend the effort, this thread will be back within the week
>>46667004
That's not even the only occurance of that.
Female Skaven are also pretty fucked up, but you probably won't hear FemFreq complain about those things, because that would require actually researching the lore instead of going for the low hanging fruit and screaming muh Femul Spessmuhreen.
>>46672328
No one starts a thread like this on /tg/ in good faith hoping for an actual discussion.
>>46665361
Sure, but the makeup of any IG regiment is decided at a local level, dependent on countless factors. It's probably far from a 50/50 split, but you *can* see why there'd be women in combat roles across the Imperium.
>>46661003
Because a retcon that big would introduce a fundamental contradiction and damage the suspension of disbelief.
Remember Midiclorians?
>>46672423
Exactly. There's no evidence of the gene-seeds rewriting the marine's DNA anymore than putting a pig's heart into a person does.
Gene-seeds modify your body and use various hormones to induce different growth patterns, but to achieve the full effectiveness of this is to do it during puberty when the body is naturally growing and changing, and affecting those growth patterns. Old people cannot get the same effectiveness from gene-seeds as kids do.
I don't think the "stop marines from taking over humanity" is the real cause. I think it's closer to the reason why priests couldn't marry, and that was to prevent their power from becoming hereditary. If Marines could have families, it could also cause Marine dynasties.
>>46672536
>Exactly. There's no evidence of the gene-seeds rewriting the marine's DNA anymore than putting a pig's heart into a person does.
>Gene-seeds modify your body
>get the same effectiveness from gene-seeds as kids
How does marine juice modify your body then? You don't know how genetics works, admit it.
>>46672597
In fairness, neither does GW
>>46661003
Because men are physically stronger and generally better than women at mostly everything.
You've got SoB, DE and Eldar female warriors. What more do you want?
>>46672634
That's true
Your bait is shit and you deserve to get permenantly locked in /pol/.
>>46672681
>What more do you want?
Your reply.
>>46672597
>You don't know how genetics works, admit it.
Not that guy, but neither do you. Changes to the DNA in one part of the body aren't going to affect another - your DNA isn't some kind of ethereal "status" window that's always uniform across your body. A pig's heart in a human body would still have pig DNA, but your kids wouldn't have pig DNA. Genetic damage from radiation isn't hereditary either (your sperm might get fucked up too, but that's a separate issue).
>>46662723
I happen to like ND.
>>46665304
True, but when you're returning to what essentially amounts to battles of attrition, every baby-factory matters.
>>46672597
Hormones? I mean, if you pumped a kid full of hormones for 10 years, they'd be very different than if they grew naturally. But genetically they'd be identical. Also, a lot of the organs they give them give them the weird abilities they have.
>>46661003
The emperor dictates that women are not to be members of the Space Marines, and I trust in the emperor. Should you feel justice in your heart and yet be a women, there are always the Sisters of Battle. But the Space Marines are for manly men.
Manly men like my good comrade Jesse. I've never seen a man cut through so many chaos spawn and heresy as he does. Alas, the horrors of war have robbed him of his genitals and caused irreparable damage to his chest leaving strange build ups of scar tissue. So great are his internal injuries that, once a month or so, he even starts bleeding for no reason! But he cares not! He lives only for the emperor! I have watched him charge forth even as the blood flows from him, screaming in the emperors name! A greater Space Marine I have never met, nor a greater friend in battle. No woman could hope to match his example, and few men besides, and yet we all must try.
For the emperor!
>>46672155
And likely would have had every male in the Imperium trying to stick their dicks in them.
>>46661003
Because only boys are fit to receive the emperors seed
>>46661003
Why the fuck do you losers always use Samus for your faggy MUH EQUALITY shitposting?
Is it because she's the only scifi girl you can think of since you don't actually give a shit about the garbage causes you champion?
>>46661577
>while diversity is a noble goal
No it isn't.
>certainly should be pursued in any new IPs
Why? Why should -any- IP be forced to shoehorn in women/blacks/trannies/autists/whatever the latest flavor of the month minority is at the cost of setting cohesion, regardless of age?
>>46673236
Their logic is that because Samus wears power armor, female space marines can exist. Nevermind that Samus is from a completely different universe with completely different rules and lore.
>>46662011
>Yet nobody fucking complains that there are no male Sisters of Battle with their special faith based powers.
Probably because the first officially recognized Living Saint was a dude IIRC
>>46673408
Or the fact that she's not a space marine at all, being a free agent.
>>46672772
>Not that guy, but neither do you.
Actually, I do. And I discussed before why marines can't pass additional organs or even increased muscle mass, bone structure and other cool qualities to possible human children.
>>46673408
I just don't get it. She's not the only girl in power armor (though admittedly she's the most iconic) but more importantly, to call her an emotionally stunted autist like what Space Marines are completely shits all over everything she accomplished and her entire character.
>>46662723
He's been busy shitposting on porn boards trying to rally support for a "resurgence" of the weekend smut threads
>>46673544
I'll take raised by birds autism over what we got in fusion and beyond.Captain N samus was pretty sweet though
>>46665028
I remember a bit about a Space Wolf making an pass on a lady in the previous Space Wolf codex.
>>46673597
>raised by birds autism
Way to completely miss the point of my post.
I'm saying SMs are the emotionless autists. Samus actually had a pretty fucking ridiculous range of emotions to process at a mere 6 years old when everyone she ever loved died before her very eyes, her dad got fucking ripped in half by a space dragon that was also a space pirate, and a couple of mad scientist birds decided to take her in and turn her into a pocket sized planet killer.
Space Marines ain't got shit on Sammy S.
>>46673597
>hating on Fusion
Fusion was great. Other M's fumbling attempts to flesh out the backstories implied in Fusion don't make Fusion any less of a good game.
>>46673715
The manga already fleshed out Samus's backstory. Other M tried to homage the manga and mangled it horribly.
>>46673680
space marines largely grow up killing monsters and other people in nightmare hellworlds until skygods kidnap them, force them to cage deathmatches and then flay them apart to turn them into superhumans
Samus had a fairly idyllic childhood until the pirate raid. And even then, the average hive scummer has a harder life. Grim dankness, yo.
>>46661003
>bitches about dudes in armor killing aliens
>posts the coolest guy in space who kills aliens
I don't see why you guys keep picking on Metroid when talking about 40K, he's just a cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything
>>46673715
Fusion was fantastic. Its story was terrible.
>>46673746
Don't see what that has to do with Fusion. Fusion fit perfectly in line with everything else that came out before it without being retarded or melodramatic
>>46666874
They're the equivalent. The only real differences are the lack of geneseed modification and attachment to the Ecclesiarchy. They are, for all intents and purposes, female Space Marines.
>>46673767
Fusion's story is only terrible if Other M is canon, in which case Samus has inexplicably forgotten things about the Galactic Federation she learned on the BOTTLE SHIP, and thinks an asshole is a "brilliant military mind".
>>46673844
No, fusion's story is terrible on its own merit. I can take or leave the X-parasite, metroid DNA and "federation is really eeevil" plots, but the elevator monologues and adam conversations were legit awful and take up an enormous portion of the game.
>>46673844
>There's a Metroid staring at Samus. It doesn't look aggressive, but as far as I know it's immune to Samus's freeze rays.
>I know! I'll shoot Samus from behind, somehow hitting her so hard that her suit turns off and leaves her sprawled helpless on the ground. Then I'll shoot the Metroid with my weaker replica of Samus's freeze ray that takes half an hour to charge.
>This is the man Samus called a "brilliant military mind"
>>46673506
Seeing that there's a lot of discussion back and forth on the subject and I can't make out which one is yours, was your conclusion that they can't pass their enhancements to a new generation because their sperm would produce normal humans as if they had not gone through any augmentations, or because they're so past humans that they're incompatible with humans?
>>46674060
I am going to interpret Samus calling him a brilliant military mind as being pure sarcasm, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
>>46674116
It was in other thread but answer is both.
If their little swimmers aren't augmented then they can have normal babies with women but children won't have any modifications. If their reproductive organs are augmented and produce modified gametes, then they can't produce children. Fetus will die at early stage of development due to metabolic malfunction.
>>46674136
>sarcasm
>The real Adam understood me well.
>He knew I wouldn't disagree.
>The real Adam would have said the same thing about that incident, but he would have softened the blow.
>He was relentless in his criticism, but he always cared...
>I've reflected upon his words, and I see the wisdom in them.
>But in the end, the human soul will ever reach for the truth... This is what Adam taught me.
there's just too much for it to be sarcasm
>>46674257
How can you rewrite your own DNA, yet have normal kids? I mean, an animal organ in you would have the animal DNA and you have your own. But if gene-seeds start rewriting your DNA, how does it target it so that only certain portions of your body are affected, but not your sperm?
Makes no sense, look at the amount of women able to pass basic military training nowadays then ramp it up to a galaxy of a quadrillion humans qualifying for a few million positions.
>>46672536
But what's the downside of Marine dynasties? Surely their non-augmented kids would generally be better than the average candidate due to being trained by their parents.
>>46674136
Samus's whole arc in Other M is about how guilty she feels for ever disobeying Adam, who was like a father to her, and how she only left the GF because "Any objections, lady?" triggered her.
Despite Fusion Samus saying that she LIKED the "Lady" thing when it came from Adam, because he actually meant it. And Manga Samus never being any closer to Adam than "mutual respect".
In the manga, Samus had already left the GF by the time of the first game, and during Zero Mission she was officially working under Adam as a mercenary (but in practice he just gave her some extra weapons then left her free to do her own thing).
Other M (which is supposed to be in continuity with the manga) claims that the incident on the BOTTLE SHIP was the first time Samus had seen Adam since she left the GF, and also has Adam insist on following his commands at all times.
>>46673806
>S3 T3
I see where the armor part comes in, but what about the power?
>>46674497
>what's the downside of Marine dynasties?
Have you looked at real life dynasties?
>>46661003
Making new models is costly, and GW is pretty much pic releted at this point.
>>46661192
>4chan is an unified thing with the same people in all boards
>fa/tg/uys don't roleplay
Away with you, heretic.
>>46674560
It's counteracting the -4 Str.
>>46674560
power means they aren't hindered by wearing it
walking around with concrete slab armor would be fairly difficult
>>46674380
>But if gene-seeds start rewriting your DNA, how does it target it so that only certain portions of your body are affected, but not your sperm?
I don't know how you imagine gene-seed but I'm sure it's a not virus blindly rewriting data in all cells it can penetrate. Vectors can be very selective in their application. There can be cells with different genetic information even in your body. They often produce weird coloration in nature, see mosaicism.
The Imperium is a conservative society. It has an army exclusively for me (Space Marines) and an army exclusively for women (Sisters of Battle). The Imperial Guard is a mixed bag, but it's also feudal levies, not a "national military" (for lack of a better term).
Adding female space marines would give us an Arch-Conservative Hyper-Religious Ultra-Fanatical Middle-Ages Gothic Empire ... that's totally feminist, everyone. And that's why it's silly.
Also lore.
>>46661003
Because they're way more effective as Adeptes Sororitas
>>46674598
>>46674614
Maybe the Imperium should acquire some Iridium battle suits.
>>46674674
terminator's better, and actually more miniaturized
>woman
>not -4 str, wis, cha and int
get a load of this male feminist
>>46674619
>0-5% female representation is feminist
I mean, I'm not expecting equal representation here, but I don't think that's a consistent viewpoint for a culture that expects women to fight alongside men in the trenches. Death Korps of Krieg is 50% female and one of the most brutally effective fighting forces in the Imperium.
>>46674616
>I don't know how you imagine gene-seed
As they're described in the fluff. I don't remember ever seeing anything about rewriting genetics. Only the eye one is said to have a genetic stimuli (whatever that means), along with hormonal one, which along with various procedures and therapy enhance their vision. The rest are said to use hormones or themselves provide the abilities.
>>46661003
Because marines need to be able to fight for weeks or months if necessary and women are useless 7-10 days of the month.
>>46674822
>As they're described in the fluff. I don't remember ever seeing anything about rewriting genetics.
I can't perceive how this marine juice could work otherwise. GW knows what sort of primarchium it is and how it transforms man into superman.
samus is a shit
>>46665116
>>46664606
>realism
>logic
this guy gets it
>>46664697
>>46672371
>>46674803
There are no female krieg troopers. Krieg women exist purely to pump out children with the assistance of borderline tech heresy.
>>46674803
>Death Korps of Krieg
>brutally effective
They spend millions trying to hold some insignificant warehouse planet, use tactics archaic even by Imperial tactics and charge ahead into enemy fire screaming "muh penance!"
>>46674803
>Death Korps of Krieg is 50% female
Nope
>>46661003
genetic uniformity you dumb homo
>>46674903
Yeah, sure. Kriegers use artificial wombs to pump out new babies. AdMechs use similar devices to make clones for servitors and modified troopers.
>>46674803
>0-5% female representation is feminist
I think you might have misunderstood my argument. If they changed Space Marines to also be female, it would be a pretty significant change in the Imperium's "character," and in a feminist direction. Nothing about statistics, more about message.
>I don't think that's a consistent viewpoint for a culture that expects women to fight alongside men in the trenches
But that's not a uniform expectation. Some worlds expect it (like Cadia), but others don't. Like I said, the IG is a feudal levy force and not a uniform military. However, the Imperial Government itself is pretty uniform, and is pretty uniformly gender segregationist (if not outright sexist). The Space Marines are not a feudal levy, to the extent that they are controlled at all it is by the Imperial Government proper, and they aren't about to pour funding into creating women Space Marines.
>Krieg
I've heard arguments that it's all men, and arguments that it may be half-and-half, but do you have a source for claiming it is definitely half and half?
>>46674906
That warehouse planet was a major source of supplies for Cadia. Many of them die but that's the point. Wars of attrition that other regiments couldn't handle mentally. Sometimes there isn't much room for maneuvering and you need men willing to charge into machine gun fire.
>>46674915
>>46674903
Krieger babies are grown in vats because all the women are busy charging tanks with bayonets.
>>46674875
Even today we have various methods, drugs and small electric implants to enhance the human body. You don't need to rewrite the human genome to achieve those results.
>>46674995
>>46674965
Whether the vitae wombs are artificial wombs or some kind of hyper fertility drug has never been confirmed in the lore, but in either case it is still far more efficient for your women to have babies rather than fight when they will be objectively worse at it with equal training.
>>46673400
>Implying women/blacks/trannies/autists can't exist organically in a setting.
I agree that adding shit for the sake of adding shit is stupid, but its equally stupid to go as far as possible in the other direction to show that you aren't politically correct.
>>46674995
>because all the women are
I don't think I've ever seen official reference to a female krieg guardsman.
>>46674903
>>46674995
>>46674965
There is no certain information about Krieg women whatsoever, with the exception of a line in "Dead Men Walking" which references a character having seen 'women and children' on the planet. Stop pretending to know things that are not established as fact.
>>46675049
>some kind of hyper fertility drug
Oh yeah, huge breeding orgies
>>46674975
>That warehouse planet was a major source of supplies for Cadia.
A new warehouse can always be set up somewhere else. If it had been a production facility... Besides, in the end the planet was lost anyway due to being shelled to shit and the taint of Chaos still lingering there. So that's 14 million dead for pretty much nothing.
Truly the heroes the Imperium needs. If you want to run into enemy fire, I'm sure you could join the Valhallans and become human mine sweepers, so they don't have to send their dudes into mine fields to clear them out.
>>46674995
Get the fuck out of here with your retarded headcannon.
>>46674995
I wonder how many girls from Krieg make it into Adeptus Sororitas
>>46671029
What a baller little fellaw he was.
>>46675049
The Stone Men aren't modern humans They're the descendants of a genetically-engineered slave labor caste. Why would you intentionally cripple half of your slave's ability to do physical labor?
>>46661003
There is no good reason and that's the way I like it, it's misogynist now fuck off.
>>46675081
Are you 11 years old, currently jacking off, or both?
>>46675049
>>46675130
It's lifted from Dune, where the Tleilaxu are grown from genetically engineered baby factories designed to give birth constantly. It's sort of like a dreadnaught's brain in a jar (another thing lifted from Dune), except it's a vagina in a jar.
>>46675074
>>46675076
Obviously Kriegers don't distinguish between male and female; there's no difference between cannon fodder and cannon fodder.
>>46675332
>Obviously Kriegers don't distinguish
If it's so obvious then you'll probably have something to back this up, yes?
>>46675121
Yes, with the bureaucratic nightmare that is the IoM, and the surely abundant amount of unused viable planets surrounding one of the most strategically important regions of the imperium, I'm sure with a few emails they could have just replaced an entire armory world in time for nobody to notice. They should have just left it alone to become an extremely well armed stronghold of chaos right next door to the cadian gate. 14 million men dead is minuscule. Hardly even worthy of note in the grand scale of things. An armory world under the direct control of daemons of nurgle is another matter. It is, however, easily arguable that the situation as a whole could have been dealt with better, but it's explained quite clearly in the vraks books that the entire operation was under the command of some punk kid noble with no experience. If anything, the death korp did far better than expected considering they went from fighting rebels, to CSM and daemons.
>>46661003
>bait thread getting this many replies (yes, I know, mine only adds to that)
Dark times.
>>46675363
Kriegers barely even distinguish between "you" and "me", why would they give a shit whether there's tits under your flak armor when they tell you to charge?
>>46675383
Nobody's saying they shouldn't have stopped Chaos getting all the guns, retard, but the planet was a mere warehouse. It did not produce anything, it just stockpiled guns and munitions. And Krieg managed to waste 14 million dudes in just shitting the place up. A job that could have just as well been done by the Navy from orbit and in less than 18 years.
Seeing that various other regiments can conquer planets without wasting millions of lives, Krieg are hardly the best ones available. Nor the most dedicated, seeing that Vossies exist.
>>46675067
>but its equally stupid to go as far as possible in the other direction to show that you aren't politically correct
Good thing I never said that, moron. I'm just wondering why a setting needs to be thirty years old if you want it to be a politically incotrect, dystopian shithole.
>>Implying women/blacks/trannies/autists can't exist organically in a setting.
I also never said that, but I guarantee you they will add goddamn nothing to the setting if the sole reason for their inclusion is ~*~D I V E R S I T Y~*~
>>46675464
>it just stockpiled guns and munitions
Do you know how logistics works?
>>46675395
Most people are arguing about Metroid lore and Krieger lore.
>>46675429
>why would an army focused on homogenization and uniformity give a shit about the consequences of mixed-gender regiments
Given their recruitment is entirely through a planet-wide eugenics program and the vitae wombs, it's more likely they're deliberately pumping out a higher number of men.
Planets like Cadia will have an even spread. Not Krieg.
>>46675559
Now yes, not hours ago
>>46675429
Because the ones with tits can make dozens more soldiers and that's a much better contribution that filling a pair of boots.
>>46675464
And that decision was not made by the death korp, as I said. The decision to try and retake the armory was made by the aforementioned noble. It is said in the vraks books which you either did not read or did not pay attention to that orbital bombardment would be pointless and dangerous to the spacecraft as the armory itself was too well fortified and armed. Its the entire reason why they had to land on the opposite side of the planet. By the time the brass started realizing that it was turning into more of a quagmire than originally estimated, it was too late to dramatically shift their strategy.
>>46675574
You made your post now, not hours ago.
>>46675595
Why are you replying to me still
>>46675560
>the consequences of mixed-gender regiments
What consequences are those? Remember, you're a masked bio-robot programmed to die for the emperor at the earliest opportunity and probably sterile from radiation exposure.
>>46675547
I know that losing a stockpile of guns is less bad than losing the factories that make them, the people who make them, the farms that feed the people, the ships that transport them, the docks that makes the ships, the forts that keeps the enemy at bay, the worlds that produce the recruits that would use those weapons, etc.
It's not like it's the only warehouse in the segmentum containing weapons and munitions. It wasn't even stockpiling anything irreplaceable.
>>46675594
>Because the ones with tits can make dozens more soldiers and that's a much better contribution that filling a pair of boots.
But there's no need since the Vitae Womb removes birth rates as a limiting factor. Krieg is only limited by their ability to feed, train, and outfit soldiers.
>>46675594
I did not say they should have skipped the invasion and go straight to orbital bombing. I said that for all good Krieg did, the end result was basically the same, a planet the Imperium can't use.
And no, it wasn't the decision of Krieg to invade, but it was their decision to do their WW1 tactics with human waves and artillery barrages.
>>46675639
>What consequences are those?
Physical disparities, first and formost. Mental ones are also quite relevant. The thread's pretty well covered the bulk of it already. Indoctrination can only go so far when you're pumping out the kinds of numbers krieg is.
>Remember, you're a masked bio-robot programmed to die for the emperor
Oh, you don't actually know the Dkok fluff. My bad.
>>46661513
>GW won't even admit that they need functional rules and affordable models to stay in business, much less that they may need to widen their target demographic.
>That said, you want female marines, make some and play them, no one is stopping you.
Correct Answer.
Also be sure to make the 12 FEET TALL!
>>46662110
>This doesn't account for Chaos not making CSM out of females.
>Honestly, if I believe that GW could do the concept well, I would totally like female CSM.
>>46662141
>the only purpose women have in chaos marine armies is being a part of the daemonculaba
>Not BOTH!
>>46662723
One day actually.
>>46664988
>>implying some of the Emperor's Children aren't already female
INDEED!
Check your privilege Loyalist Scum!
>>46665218
>Emps made men Space Marines because the Primarchs were men themselves, hence why the whole geneseed and enhanced organs thing is only compatible with men.
...But Samus IS a Primarch...
>>46666336
>Because gw suck at sculpting women's faces?
Also correct for the most part.
>>46670470
>They probably already do. Mutations, blessings, and other weird warp-changes can give you female Chaos marines in a variety of ways.
>Granted its about equal odds to become a spawn or whatever, but that's the way with Chaos.
Yes, but then you get the crowd that bitch that "WAAAH, you can have Loyalist Female Chaos Marines, THAT'S JUST SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE MARYSUE BULLSHIIIIIT!"
>Of course, the fact that they logically exist isn't enough for some people. They really really really want female Space Marines, but aren't willing to go through the effort of converting some for the place they fit into lore.
To be fair, one of the biggest factors against me getting into physical 40k beyond modeling difficulty is that I wouldn't have anyone to play within a 30 minute drive.
>>46671211
>Necrons (formerly gendered).
Higher ranked Necrons actually DO retain their genders.
>>46675830
>Samus is a primarch
No she isn't, leave my bird waifu out of this ND.
>>46675830
>ugly spikes
>no chapter heraldry
Back to the Hole of Terror, bitch
>>46675830
>...But Samus IS a Primarch...
God I wish people would stop pushing this
>>46675720
A planet the imperium cannot use, yes. But also one denied to their enemies. The planet would have been salvageable if daemons had not shown up last minute, which has nothing to do with the death korp or their tactics.
The fortress citadel of vraks was protected with multiple lines of trenches, razor wire, bunkers, and minefields hundreds of miles deep, all supported their own heavy artillery and armor. The renegades had years to loot the armory and set up killing fields before the departo munitorum even became aware of the revolt. Barring orbital bombardment, which we have already established was not an option due to the renegade's position, encirclement and siege warfare was the best option available to them. Siege warfare is not some ancient obsolete tactic. There are literally cities under siege as we speak. Sometimes your enemy leaves you to option but to surround them and attack them until they run out of bullets, bodies, or willpower.
