so me and my friend are in a bit of a kerfuffle over whether or not necromancy is inherently evil or just another energy source. I'm in the camp of it being evil as it appears to draw energy from pain suffering and just general evil acts also pretty much all undead are listed as having an evil alignment (yes i use alignments in my games b4 "alignmets=shit setting). while my friend argues that it is not and is simply energy he quotes non evil liches as being in forgotten realms (i honestly dont know enough about settings to debate this) and clerics and paladins being able to take some spells that are listed as necromancy.
>>46649874
Good > Willing to sacrifice your well-being in the interests of unknown others.
>E.G. Reviving the dead-by-accident to allow one last goodbye and allow closure. Allowing the dying to be reanimated as a protector for his or her family free of charge.
Evil > Willing to sacrifice unknown others' well-beings in your self-interest.
> Undead armies, using the souls of others to fuel rituals, Torturing a soul in undeath for information or as bait directed at someone else.
Neutral > Unwilling to sacrifice one way or another.
Necromancy is neutral, what you do with it is what's important.
>>46649874
4chan will probably come down on the 'its evil' because either the energy it uses is fundamentally evil in some way or because all undead are in some way entrapping the soul of the being reanimated but like everything it ultimately depends on the setting. There a other ways to contextualize necromancy that makes it neutral or even good (if you think in terms of the dead coming willingly to aid the living like the Eldar in 40K)
>>46649874
IT DEPENDS ON THE SETTING!
If the setting says it's always evil, then it's always evil.
If it says it isn't always evil, then it isn't always evil.
If it doesn't say then it's up to the GM.
>>46649874
Both of you are right and wrong, lawful evil necromancy is raising the dead, making abominations etc. You're friend is right in th at an lawful neutral or good cleric can follow some death gods and take up the benevolent death domain. All schools of magic are neutral, it's just what they're used for
>>46650061
> You are friend is right in the hat
Really?
>>46650121
I'm on a phone, kiddo. Also I said:
>You're friend is right in th at
Healing spells are necromancy too.
>>46649874
.........
>>46649874
Totally evil. Anyone using it to further the cause of good, justice, and righteousness gets a citation from the Union of All Consuming Darkness and Despair. They have an image to maintain, after all.
>>46649962
>the dead coming willingly to aid the living
>great war between the humans and the orcs
>the humans defeat the orcs, who flee to the plains
>centuries later, the orcs return
>everyone is shitting themselves
>all the skeletons rise simultaneously out of humanity's war graves to defend their descendants
>they retain their old personalities and centuries-dated culture and in-jokes but with a new cynical humour
Would you play in this setting?
>>46649874
No, necromancy is by nature good.
Death=Evil
If you going against death in any way then you're good.
>>46649874
>>46649959
this
Necromancy isn't intrinsically evil. Also everything depends on setting. Necromancers in my setting can control life force and the flow of souls. You can do a lot of good with this kind of power.
"White" necromancers in case of my setting can heal injuries, or assist burials to insure that souls reach afterworld safely. Because of the knowledge of life and death they can also create animal familiars by "transplanting" the souls of recently deceased.
I can imagine that necromancers my also be great criminal investigators if they're able to speak with the dead (original meaning of the word necromancy).
>>46650308
>I can imagine that necromancers my also be great criminal investigators
H - "So, who killed you?"
Z - "That duuuuuuuuuuude over theeeeeeeeeeere."
M - "Damnit!"
H - "Well, that's case closed, I guess."
W - "Mr zombie, I'm afraid I must continue to keep you from your rightful rest, but we do need your statement in writing and with your signature."
Z - "Of cooooooooooourse."
>>46650259
Without death, necromancers have no power. So they rely on death/evil to do their work.
>>46649874
I know that this is considered a conversation killer, but it really does depend upon the setting.
For the most part, though, I agree with >>46649959. It's how you use it that matters.
I do, however, consider it to be innately "anti-life". That is, an animated skeleton bereft of a master or standing orders will start immediately killing any living thing that it can perceive - tearing the grass out of the ground, swatting at flies, etc. This isn't innately "evil" so much as just a natural reaction of necrotic energy to the presence of life.
>>46650391
So? It's still good.
>>46650401
>an animated skeleton bereft of a master or standing orders will start immediately killing any living thing that it can perceive
Oh, she doesn't mean any bad by it, she's just trying to help you get out of your meat prison.
>>46650391
Death != Evil
Its a part of the natural world. Its almost druid shit.
>>46650541
>Its a part of the natural world.
Still evil.
>>46649874
Depends entirely on setting and use
>It is it used with dark magic to forcefully bind spirits and raise evil armies of the dead and cause the dead to submit?
Yes that's evil
>Does it allow you to reanimate corpses, summon spirits of their own will and commune with the dead?
Its not evil
>>46650259
>Death=Evil
>If you going against death in any way then you're good.
Do you feel that cold, inevitable oblivion?
Do you feel it closing in around you like noose?
An eternity of silent darkness, dulling your cries and stealing your breath?
How about you find religion?
>>46652268
2edgy3me
I run a "neutral good" necromancer. He's an inquisitor hunting the undead and unnatural. He uses the necromantic arts as a means to his goal. There is a potential hook here for the necromancy corrupting his character, but as of now he's still a "good" character using the darkarts. By my own interpretation this makes necromancy a neutral magic. My inquisitor wouldn't touch tye stuff if it stank of evil. Rather he just thinks the power is "wrong", but uses it to better combat the others who would use this neutral power for evil purposes.
>>46649874
The strongest world power in my setting is an ancient Empire with a largely undead army that is maintained by the power of the Resplendent God-Empreror. However, the soldiers aren't just random schmucks that got forcefully brought back to life, but the Empire's own warriors who have pledged eternal loyalty to the Emperor over the past millenia and signed the contract to willingly continue their service under his rule even in death.
>>46649874
In Diablo universe Necromancers are good unless they are rogue and serve evil and just have necromantic powers. A school of magic cannot be inherently evil unless it is about draining the life out of innocents to improve yourself.
I would argue a spell like fireball or arcane missiles is more evil than raising the dead because those spells are explicitly used for murder. reanimating a corpse hurts no one and they could be used for free labour.
>>46650226
Sounds awesome. And depending on the state of the undead it could provide some pretty cool characters.
Those that play with the devil's toys will be brought by degrees to wield his sword.
It's not inherently evil to use necromancy, it just becomes harder to use it for good the deeper you delve into it. Ray of Enfeeblement is a perfectly neutral spell that simply weakens an opponent-- perfect for peacekeeping. Gentle Repose prevents a body from rotting and prevents it from being raised as undead. Speak With Dead allows one to magically obtain knowledge without resorting to truly extreme measures like Contact Other Plane. Inflict Wounds is simply a weapon. Is a warrior evil for using a sword? Revivify allows one to bring back to life those freshly departed-- real life.
However, the more advanced necromancies are quite dark in their purpose and it would be a stretch to justify their use for good. "Greater Good" is a term often used by villains, "The ends justify the means" is a phrase tossed around by war criminals and ruthless politicians alike.
Watch your step and you might just make it into the light-- but the slope to darkness is a slippery one indeed.
At least in the setting I'm playing in its purely neutral, but that can easily chance depending on the intentions of the user. The undead themselves are fueled by negative energy, at least the mindless ones, while the intelligent ones have a mind and souls, but there's none of that torturous pain crap as an undead, they're perfectly ok with it, with undeath comes a rather calm disposition towards the world.
>Necromancer and his band of pun making skeleton buddies
I fluff necromancy as anything having to do with manipulation of life energy.
Necromancy is taught in high school senior level magic courses, but only for healing and banishing undead/phantasms.
>>46650184
>kiddo
>>46649874
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tome_of_Necromancy_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29/Morality
Tome of Necromancy in general is awesome.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Dungeon%20Life%20Quest
A bit long, but a take on the "necromancy is evil" theme.
If you're using a stock D&D setting there's really no debate. Spells that create undead are explicitly stated to be evil, because negative energy is a pollutant and the vast majority of undead are indiscriminate killing machines. Still, its not a major "you're now damned for this" evil, the fiendish codex puts casting evil spells on the same level as humiliating an underling or threatening to use torture.
Necromancy as a school isn't evil just because it contains some evil spells though, that's like branding Conjuration evil because you can use it to summon demons.
>>46649874
DEPENDS
ON
THE
SETTING
>>46649874
Please stop making this retard thread
Are there souls? Does necromancy negatively effect eternal souls, the afterlife as the true order of the universe, and thrive on exploitation of the powerless? If the answer to any of these is yes, them its probably evil in your setting. That isn't to say good things can't come of evil, or lesser of evils, etc. But don't pretend to be a good guy.
Hmm... >>46649959 gave me an idea for a character.
A sorcerer who carries the bones of the dead, summoning them to their aid, but only of the ones willing.
Normally, they go around helping the dead bid farewell to their loved ones (Gotta make a living somehow), but after the farewells have been bid, they ask the dead if they want to come back to land of the living again. And then the sorcerer asks whether they would be willing to fight on the sorcerer's behalf, for the price of seeing their family again every once in a while.
The sorcerer then carries the bones of the dead with them, leaving the ashes of the flesh to the family, in case the bones are lost.
Better still, what if they carry the bones of their own late family, who left for land of the dead too soon?
There was a game I ran where bodies were looked at as more of a a vehicle, and once the spirit left the body, the guild of necromancer would take control of it and use it for free labour in jobs like mining and forestry. Any necromancers not part of the guild were subject to a very painful death.
>>46649874
>Is necromancy evil?
It depends entirely on the setting and the details, and a bit on GM interpretation.
The idea of necromancy being evil is that necromancy causes pain or torture by its fundamental casting. It rips apart souls to grant the effects, or it causes bodily pain in anything it targets. Note that just being painful to be hit by necromancy isn't enough to call it evil; fireballs aren't evil but they sure are painful. Rather, there has to be something outside the damage dealt which is inarguably evil.
The idea of necromancy not being evil is that "negative energy" is just a type of energy, and so using it isn't any more evil that any other energy type. Throwing around necromancy bolts isn't any worse than throwing around fire, acid, or making people explode by overloading them with positive energy.
If you are going by the default D&D setting, necromancy is not inherently evil. Part of this is because there are some anti-undead spells which are necromancy. Death Ward (immunity to death spells) and Hide from Undead are both necromancy, but neither are evil. And yes, there are (intelligent) good-aligned undead as well. It is kind of difficult to argue that ALL necromancy is evil, although you could certainly argue that specific necromancy spells are.
Of course, in a different setting, necromancy might behave in a different way. But you'd probably need different mechanics, such as a requirement met to cast them and/or changing the spell lists of some classes.
>>46650376
Pretty sure you could do this in the Arcanum game, and bypass long questlines of investigation and clue-finding. Everyone hated you for it though, because necromancy is demonized in that setting. Nevertheless, a neat feature.
