D&D 4e General. Thread starter question: What house rules do you personally prefer for 4e?
If you are GMing, remember...
1. To strongly consider giving out at least one free "tax feat," like Expertise and pre-errata Melee Training.
2. To use Monster Manual 3/Monster Vault/Monster Vault: Nentir Vale/Dark Sun Creature Catalog math. Avoid or manually update anything with Monster Manual 1 or 2 math.
3. That skill challenges have always been scene-framing devices for the GM, that players should never be overtly told that they are in a skill challenge, and that the Rules Compendium has the most up-to-date skill DCs and skill challenge rules.
If you would like assistance with character optimization, remember to tell us what the what the rest of the players are playing, what books are allowed, your starting level, the highest level you expect to reach, what free feats you receive, if anything is banned, whether or not themes are allowed, your starting equipment, and how much you dislike item-dependent builds.
If you wish to talk about settings, 4e's settings are Points of Light (the planes and the natural world's past empires are heavily detailed in various sourcebooks and magazines), 4e Forgotten Realms, 4e Eberron, 4e Dark Sun, and whatever setting you would like to bring into 4e.
Nentir Vale locations: http://web.archive.org/web/20130520012550/http://community.wizards.com/nentir_vale/wiki/Nentir_Vale_Locations
Points of Light timeline (ignore everything else on this mostly-fanon wiki): http://nentirvale.wikidot.com/world
D&D 4e Compendium (for those who still have Insider subscriptions): http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx
PDFs for 4e books: Search thepiratebay for "Dungeons_and_Dragons_4th_Edition_books_update__1_[Nov_2012]"
If you google D&D 4e Drive you can find a lot of the pdfs too. From what I can tell the one called "D&D 4th Edition" has most of the books including rare ones like Threats to Nentir Vale.
Also does anyone have the fan patched character builder?
>>46642180
The offline one?
I used this one: https://rogue-elements.obsidianportal.com/wikis/offline-character-builder
>>46642456
The 4shared link in that one has been dead for a while.
>>46642495
Oh.
Well uh.. I have a version that uses a different method but it's way bigger. If I find the one that was in the link above, anyone has a good place to share it at?
If you play 4e, you're either a newfag to dnd, or you're just a faggot.
>>46642948
Look, I appreciate trying to start a (most likely edition warring) shitstorm to breath a little life into this thread, but there's nuance to these things.
>>46643073
Damn it. Lol. Being completely honest and not trying to start a flame war, 4th edition does suck. I mainly play 3.5, which I admit has some flaws. But 4e had 2 for every 1 flaw 3.5 had. Not to mention the whole power thing essentially made everyone a wizard with the memorization of them, and it plays too much like a MMORPG.
>>46642948
Newfags are faggots. It's a portmanteau, dipshit.
>>46643109
A marked improvement. Still a bit too obvious imo, but you actually included some good bits. By mentioning 3.5 you set up the 'sides' for this edition warring, and you also invite shitflinging in the other way with the flaws thing, which results in both sides getting defensive instead of just one. A few years ago, that part of your post alone could have been a very nice starter.
>>46642037
zap cleric/world speaker shaman, should I take shield of faith or protective roots?
>>46643544
>zap cleric/world speaker shaman
Perhaps the only way to vindicate a Constitution/Wisdom shaman, really, given Battle Cleric's Lore.
>shield of faith or protective roots
On one hand, Protective Roots' unconditional damage resistance will protect you much more than +2 AC, particularly against NAD-targeting attacks and source of automatic damage (e.g. auras, ongoing damage). However, Protective Roots requires tricky party positioning to gain the most out of; it is something to use at the start of a battle while everyone is still bunched together, and it might not work out for a shaman with a middling initiative result. With that in mind, post-errata Shield of Faith seems more reliable, since it can easily affect the entire party.
That said, I would take a third option: Sudden Inspiration, a level 1 cleric utility power. It is an encounter power that can transform a failed skill check into a success, which should give you actual noncombat utility.
Really had enjoyed 4th edition myself, just never got the chance to fully play through it. One thing I didn't like was that of course the player's handbook 3 didn't receive much support since it was towards the end of the line before essentials.
I enjoyed the idea of a minotaur runepriest but never got a chance to play it unfortunately.
>>46643776
>Battle Cleric's Lore.
I keep hearing about this, but it isn't in the compendium. is it still legal?
>>46644491
It should be legal for hybrids I think.
Where it becomes a bit blurry is getting it through a multiclass feat. The builder allows it IIRC, but you can't really trust the builder to get the rules right.
>>46644491
>>46644638
On the contrary, under the official online character builder, Battle Cleric's Lore can be taken via a hybrid cleric but *not* through the Healer's Lore multiclass feat.
Said online character builder is generally reliable, but it does have odd quirks such as allowing warlocks with the Sorcerer-King Pact *build* (i.e. a meaningless set of suggestions) to select Mindbite Scorn as a feat even without the Sorcerer-King Pact *feature*.
>>46644675
>it does have odd quirks such as allowing warlocks with the Sorcerer-King Pact *build* (i.e. a meaningless set of suggestions) to select Mindbite Scorn as a feat even without the Sorcerer-King Pact *feature*.
Ironically, I honestly think that improves the game a bit. I'd keep it that way. Well, no I'd actually just remove the SK Pact requirement from the feat en bloc, but yeah.
It's such an important damage boost that it singlehandedly makes SK pact either the best pact, or at least the pact you pick up with twofold pact. By making it available to all warlocks, you encourage a bit of diversity.
>>46644726
That, I will agree with. Warlocks have trouble being relevant in the heroic tier without Mindbite Scorn, and even with it, they tend to be outclassed by hybrid warlocks due to the latter's much greater build flexibility.
>>46642037
>3. That skill challenges have always been scene-framing devices for the GM, that players should never be overtly told that they are in a skill challenge,
I think that it's okay to tell your players they are in a skill challenge, particularly in chase-scenes (which are in my opinion one of the best uses of skill challenges.)
>>46644753
Never heard of that one til now. Cracking open my Dark Sun book (still smells new. Unused, sadly)...
...Oh, yeah. That's a goodie. Yeah, I agree. That would really should available to all Warlocks. That's what houserules are for, I guess.
>>46646278
Hey, if you want silly 4e builds for your game still:
Hybrid paladin/warlock with mindbite scorn and crimson fire. Your curse damage goes from 1d6 to 2d10, you get plus you are marking (with Eyebite you are marking and you also turn invisible to your foe, which is a shitty situation)... eats up your minor/move actions when you switch targets, admittedly.
>>46646442
Palalocks are pretty damned great. ^^
I really do enjoy 4e for it's really easy to setup a character and start playing. my only downside to it was the monster manuals 1 and 2. Thank god 3 fix those issues.
Is there any sort of guide out there for building 4e races?
>>46648525
Mechanically: give them +2 to two stats (with an option to switch one of them to a third), +2 to two skills, +1 or 2 to an offensive and a defensive statistic, an encounter power that scales, or a utility at-will that's about as strong as a wizard cantrip.
Alternatively, refluff an existing race.
That's about it.
>>46645971
Chases are perhaps one notable exception to "players should not know that they are in a skill challenge" in my opinion.
Dungeon Magazine #176 has an excellent example of skill challenges being used to handle a cross-city race, though of course its DCs need to be updated to Rules Compendium standards, and its monsters should be converted to Monster Manual 3 math and design.
>>46646442
>>46646580
The minor action economy crisis is perhaps the one downfall of paladin|warlock and swordmage|warlock builds, and it is due to this that I am reluctant to recommend them.
>>46648525
>>46648605
>+2 to two skills
Humans have no racial skill bonuses aside from an extra trained skill, shardminds have three skill bonuses, and hengeyokai can choose their second skill bonus.
>+1 or 2 to an offensive and a defensive statistic
This is not necessarily present in all races, and it is a very vague guideline.
4e races are admittedly quite disparate in terms of overall power level. Racial feats aside (which elevate races such as half-elf, dwarf, tiefling, genasi, and githzerai to the topmost tier of races), some races have racial statistics alone that are simply superior to the majority of races; the pixie and the draconian are the most flagrant offenders here due to their "super-jumping" limited flight. Conversely, races like the shade are woefully inadequate.
Creating a 4e race is more of an art than a science; about the only "must-haves" for a non-human race are +2 to X ability score and +2 to either Y or Z ability score, +2 to two or three skills, and some form of power.
Why DO humanoids look so Daelkyr?
What racials would you give a Naga PC?
>>46649034
>The minor action economy crisis is perhaps the one downfall of paladin|warlock and swordmage|warlock builds, and it is due to this that I am reluctant to recommend them.
I mostly enjoy the flavor. And it does seem like they have some cool synergies. But yeah, I see what you mean about the action economy.
>>46649865
Well, you can switch from paladin to cavalier to solve your action economy problems (and make the cavalier have a good CHA melee attack with eldritch strike).
God damn it, I wish dnd Insider still existed.
>>46649865
You do lose out on the sweet d10s for Curse damage, though
>>46650274
I think it still "exists" but only if you have been paying for it since before their website overhaul.
>>46643109
>Not to mention the whole power thing essentially made everyone a wizard with the memorization of them
Only Wizards had the option to swap out memorized spells/powers.
Everyone else was stuck with what they were stuck with.
And with the powers system, non-spellcasting being as awesome as spellcasting, and more survival/capable characters, cosmology/back story, and playing in the ruins of a great fallen empire it really does play more like Exalted than an MMO.
>>46650353
>>46650274
You're right
Source:GM and players are sharing the cost
Are any of the PoL based modules half assed decent for a new party?
Trying to get a game together, and I've heard nothing but poor things about the 4e modules. Really, I am looking for maps/npcs. I'm not new to the game, but I am behind the 8-ball, and would like a quick leg up on the nitty gritty.
Is there a way to change the attack stat of non melee-basic attacks?
>>46650593
Your best bet is getting a "can be used as ranged basic attack" power from half elf dilettante or hybriding (say, warlock for Cha or Con based eldritch blast) I think.
I figured this might be a good place to ask, since I don't want to start a whole new thread about it, but I'm going to be running a game of 4e, and I had a whole sort of main plot hook and setting set up. However, as soon as I got all the players together, we realized they had all independently built divine characters (a cleric, an invoker, and a paladin), so they thought it would be a neat idea to have them from the same god/church. So now I have a crusade of Pelor in a game that was originally going to be fairly secular, and I have no idea what to use for religion-based subplots, other than "Do the main plot because your god said so". Does anyone have some suggestions?
Also, more on topic, the cleric multiclass feat RAW seems almost totally useless, because it gives an ability that only applies to cleric powers. Is this intended?Why do runepriests have zero fucking build options?
>>46652420
cults, both in the church and directly opposed to the church. pelor lets you get away with a few options, cults of orcus, cults worshipping crazy undead shit like liches and vampires (or hust have a full blown vampire cabal infiltrating the church), maybe even some crazy bass-ackward cult of sehanine out to snuff the sun. not to mention the whole zehir/burning hate meme as a potential misguided clergy antagonist sect.
>>46652420
Oh also runepriests have no options because they're from PHB 3, the aborted handbook. monks are pretty much the only thing that came out of that unscathed, with the seeker and runepriest not even having the benefit of psionic power to pad them out.
>>46652420
I had a similar game set up, where everyone was a part of the Church of Bane.
Creating the church's hierarchy is very important, as is showing where the pcs' place in it is, as well as offering opportunities for them to gain status.
In this game, they are not murderhobos. While they have technical freedom (in my game, the pcs were a "cell", given the freedom to pursue goals in the name of Bane), they still had to pay heed to their betters. >>46652600 is a good jump. Make sure you have a handle on how Pelor is viewed by the world and what the dogma is.
Also, they are walking representations of Pelor's influence and might in the world. They should be expected to proselytize when able, furthering His name. They should not always be out to chop heads, as well, being sent on diplomatic missions, such as meeting with other heads of faith, escorting higher members to meetings and such.
