Planescape General and Q&A
Thread starter question: Would it be a good idea to remove the Phlogiston from the Prime and have the space in between crystal spheres be the Deep Ethereal instead, so that the Deep would be full of spelljammers crossing from sphere to sphere via the Wall of Colors?
Discuss Planescape and the Great Wheel here, whether the original AD&D 2e version, the 3.X version, the 4e version (yes, it exists in 4e, down to the baernaloths, the yugoloths, the Heart of Darkness, Maeldur et Kavurik, Tenebrous, Pelion, and the Last Word all being canon as of Dragon #417), the 5e version, or your own original blend.
I am exceedingly well-lanned on Planescape canon under a holistic blend of 2e, 3.X, and sometimes even 4e lore. If you have any questions at all about the setting's lore, feel free to ask, and I will give you direct quotes and citations from as many primary sources as I can, unlike afroakuma. I will note when something is open to GM interpretation, and explicitly note whenever I give merely my own personal interpretation.
>Basic setting summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape
>Comprehensive Planescape reference index: http://www.rilmani.org/psIndex.txt
>Planewalker.com planar encyclopedia: http://mimir.planewalker.com/encyclopedia/plane
>Canonfire.com planar encyclopedia: http://canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Outer_Planes
>Rilmani.org planar encyclopedia (contains unmarked fanon, so beware): http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Outer_Planes
>List of all the multiverse's gods (contains all gods mentioned in D&D products, but also has plenty of speculation and fanon for mythological deities and for powers with few details on them): http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/list-dead-gods#comment-58090
Old threads with previous questions and comprehensive answers: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/%22comprehensive%20planescape%22/
Explain the post-Faction War faction makeup please. I learned the "original" 15 so well I could practically write their manifestos, and then BAM suddenly everything's a clusterfuck. The Mercykillers split back into their original two, some merged (Bleakers merged with either the Dustmen or the Doomguard, right?) some are still around, some are gone, there's new ones in town (The Ring-Givers are in Sigil now, right?) And some are chilling at the Base of the Spire, like, what the hell
>>46642790
First of all, it is probably *not* a good idea to run post-Faction-War Planescape. The "Faction War" adventure was meant to be the first part of a trilogy; the other two parts were to involve bringing the factions back to their original state and in an improved form. However, the Planescape line ended before such adventures could be published, and so 2e Planescape ended on an empty and dissatisfying note.
In my opinion, the Faction War as it currently stands diminishes the setting rather than adds anything worthwhile to it. The aftermath of the adventure takes away from the diversity of Sigil and the interplay of the many factions; most of them become insular and isolationist, barely interacting with one another, which defeats the point of the factions to start with.
The changes to the setting are very, *very* long, too much to summarize in a single post. The most important parts to note are:
- Almost all of the original factols have either been Mazed or placed out of commission.
- The Lady of Pain gave a direct edict to the factions to abandon Sigil, but it was worded ambiguously, such that different factions interpreted the edict differently. Technically, Sigil no longer has any factions (they have since moved their headquarters elsewhere and become isolated), but many factioneers still maintain their philosophies in the City of Doors.
- The Believers of the Source and the Sign of One have since merged into a new faction, the Mind's Eye, with a brand-new philosophy.
- The two most politically powerful people in Sigil are now Rhys, former factol of the Transcendent Order; and Shemeshka the Marauder, furry fox arcanaloth and crime lord extraordinaire.
If you would like a comprehensive overview of the changes, I would suggest downloading the "Faction War" adventure and reading through pages 114-128 and the summary appendix, which is where I am getting my information from.
This actually simplifies things. I can just pretend that the Faction War never happened like I intended, instead of listening to the people who said I have to treat the "end state" as the new setting- thanks!
>>46644210
>your fantasy and imagination have to be X
Why would you ever listen to such people
>>46644210
>instead of listening to the people who said I have to treat the "end state" as the new setting
Who in their right mind would do such a thing?
>>46641806
Could OPM take on the LoP?
Would I be mazed for masturbating to a furry picture of the LoP as a Lop-eared rabbit?
>>46644291
No and yes.
>>46644210
All 2e books published post-Faction-War (e.g. Inner Planes, Tales from the Infinite Staircase, Die Vecna Die), all 3.5 sources, and all 4e sources assume that the Faction War has transpired as described in that adventure. It remains to be seen whether or not 5e Planescape will be pre- or post-Faction-War.
Pre-Faction-War Planescape is perhaps the most plot-hook-filled version of the setting, since it presents Sigil as a hotbed of faction interplay and conflicts, as opposed to being the Rhys and Shemeshka show.
>>46644291
>Could OPM take on the LoP?
Probably not. All canonical precedent for overcoming the Lady of Pain in some fashion (e.g. Grundlethum's Automatic Scribe from In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil; the focrux from Harbinger House; Vecna's antics in Die, Vecna, Die) has involved esoteric magic of some stripe. It seems unlikely that raw physical force would do much to Her Serenity.
>Would I be mazed for masturbating to a furry picture of the LoP as a Lop-eared rabbit?
The latest canonical source on the Lady of Pain's stance on worship directed towards her can be found in page 27 of Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, which ominously writes: "The Lady of Pain is a figure of mystery in Sigil, and she does not allow herself to be worshiped."
"Worship" is the key word here. Anything less than that, and one would be safe from Her Serenity.
>>46644210
I have literally never run post faction war Planescape.
Every single campaign I run has a date set back in the days of 2nd edition, so Die Vecna Die hasn't happened yet either. It doesn't just make the Planescape parts a hell of a lot more interesting, it lets you use all the old classic ADND adventures, and some of those are fantastic. I HIGHLY recommend Dead Gods, and the Modron March is another adventure that I've heard good things about. You need to do a bit of work, but just about every single monster has a 3.5/Pathfinder statblock (or an obvious equivalent you can rip off). The biggest difficulty actually comes from dealing with some of the bullshit no save just die "traps" the game throws at you, but it usually isn't that bad.
>>46645367
It is also worth noting that the classic 2e Planescape adventures do not need to be run in a D&D system at all; they could be converted to just about any fantasy-capable RPG of your choice if you are willing to go out of your way to convert statistics.
That said, much of the creature selection in the 2e Planescape adventures can be improved by including planar creatures that did not exist when the adventure was first published. For instance, there is a certain adventure set in Elysium ("Deva Spark") that has zero guardinals in it because guardinals did not exist at the time. Likewise, Dead Gods: Out of the Darkness's Pandemonium chapter could be spiced up with some 3.5 Pandemonic monsters like windrazors, windscythes, howling dragons, mivilorns, and garngraths; Orcus's undead tanar'ri could also be supplemented by 3.5's necronauts and 4e's bonegouge assassins, haures, shaadees, and tome demons.
>>46645457
Is there actually any Touhou/Planescape cross-over art?
How can you have both a Negative Energy Plane and a Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow/Demiplane of Shadow, have each one be an interesting setting for planar adventures with a diverse array of environments and themes, AND have each be distinct from one another?
>>46647225
Other than Yukari as the Lady of Pain here >>46644624 and two poorly-drawn images of Reimu as the Nameless One and Marisa as Annah that are too low-quality for me to even consider posting here, no.
>>46647261
>How can you have both a Negative Energy Plane and a Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow/Demiplane of Shadow, have each one be an interesting setting for planar adventures with a diverse array of environments and themes, AND have each be distinct from one another?
Pretty easily... ? Have you read The Inner Planes? It lays out the nature of the Negative Energy Plane; the two are really nothing alike. One is a mirror of the Prime, a shadow reflection where positive and negative, light and dark, end up together and merge into a twilight, shimmering landscape full of *odd* creatures.
I don't really see the overlap.
>>46647565
The Demiplane of Shadow's writeup in the Guide to the Ethereal Plane pp45-47 meets the "interesting setting for planar adventures with a diverse array of environments and themes" criterion.
The issue here is the Negative Energy Plane. Across 2e and 3.X planar lore, all of its points of interest are artificial structures created by non-natives (e.g. Tcian Sumere from Dead Gods, the Court of Woe from Uncaged: Faces of Sigil pp38-41, Deathheart and the Fortress of the Soul from Inner Planes p67). The only exceptions are voidstone from the 3.0 Manual of the Planes p81 and the Sargasso of Entropy from the Planar Handbook p185, and the latter is just a field of voidstone. Everything else in the Negative is an endless expansive of pure entropy and wandering undead.
Compare this to, say, the Positive Energy Plane, which has multiple naturally-occurring points of interest in the form of its many and diverse soul fonts, like the Bastion of Unborn Souls from the 3.0 adventure book of the same name.
Compare the Negative to the Elemental Plane of Air as well, which offers both naturally-occurring wonders (e.g. the Waterspout from Inner Planes p29; dream mist, heaven gems, razorgrit storms, ripplewood, shimmer air, sky lotuses, vacuum vortices, vapor fields, and whispering winds from Dragon #347 pp42-45) and structures built by natives (e.g. Chan's Palace of Unseen Contemplation and the Citadel of Ice and Steel from Inner Planes p26 and p27).
This would suggest that the Negative Energy Plane is, on its own, woefully bland on its own merits. Now, we could spruce this up a smidge; perhaps the Negative Energy Plane could be akin to a "dark twilight" reflection of a Prime world, full of crumbling and withering landscapes, but that would be cutting it a tad close to Shadow, would it not?
One idea I had to make the (Demi)Plane of Shadow more distinct from other "dark twilight" areas of the Great Wheel is to make it two-dimensional, like a shadow puppet theater.
>>46648075
Like you said the Negative Energy Plane is defined by specifically having... nothing, that isn't there from another plane, almost. It's a negative space issue; what's interesting is what /isn't/ there as I see it. The demiplane of Shadow doesn't really compare to it because it's its own plane that doesn't really overlap. If the topic were to go to what could make the Negative Energy Plane more interesting, well...
I feel like it's interesting on its own I guess? I very much like the idea of, "This is where nothing lasts. But this area lasts for now - let's figure out why" that the plane provides. It's like, you can put anything in a plane that abides by its rules in the end; one thing I want to show up in the Plane of Air at some point if I ever get to run a game and it goes there, is an enormous mass of floating microscopic organisms, basically a giant green cloud of creatures that writhes like a school of fish.
I think one great example of "dark twilight" is Twilight Princess, in regards to the Plane of Shadow; I really appreciate what it did, good ref.
>>46648440
>I very much like the idea of, "This is where nothing lasts. But this area lasts for now - let's figure out why" that the plane provides. It's like, you can put anything in a plane that abides by its rules in the end
The issue for me is that the majority of points of interest in the Negative Energy Plane exist by *breaking* its rule of "everything here, except for undead, decays."
>one thing I want to show up in the Plane of Air at some point if I ever get to run a game and it goes there, is an enormous mass of floating microscopic organisms, basically a giant green cloud of creatures that writhes like a school of fish
You could draw inspiration from the various air elemental environmental features presented in pages 42 to 45 of Dragon Magazine #347.
Meanwhile, I have been considering an alternate configuration for the Inner Planes that is themed after the shape of a "conventional" Prime world.
Plane of Fire: The infinitely expansive sea of fire that is the sun and stars.
Plane of Air: The infinitely expansive sky.
Plane of Water: The infinitely expansive ocean. Yes, people can and do sail in the border of Air and Water.
Plane of Earth: The infinitely expansive crust and mantle.
Plane of Fire: The infinitely expansive sea of fire that is *also* the core... which wraps back around to the Plane of Air if one travels "down" enough.
The issue here is that I do not quite know where to place the Positive and Negative Energy Planes. I could make a case for the Negative Energy Plane being the void directly above Air, but the void is not necessarily associated with all-eroding entropy, and this would also leave the Positive without a place. What do you think?
>>46649149
All of the points of interest in the Inner Planes exist by defying the planar norm. The interesting parts of the Plane of Air are places where it's not just empty sky, the interesting parts of the Plane of Water aren't just empty expanses of water, etc. Usually there are artificial structures, planar incursions, or weird magic shit to make things interesting.
Also, you could have Positive Energy be the stars & sun while Negative Energy is the void between them. I'm not sure how you could make it "wrap around" then, though.
>>46649337
Note my points in >>46648075:
>Compare this to, say, the Positive Energy Plane, which has multiple naturally-occurring points of interest in the form of its many and diverse soul fonts, like the Bastion of Unborn Souls from the 3.0 adventure book of the same name.
>Compare the Negative to the Elemental Plane of Air as well, which offers both naturally-occurring wonders (e.g. the Waterspout from Inner Planes p29; dream mist, heaven gems, razorgrit storms, ripplewood, shimmer air, sky lotuses, vacuum vortices, vapor fields, and whispering winds from Dragon #347 pp42-45) and structures built by natives (e.g. Chan's Palace of Unseen Contemplation and the Citadel of Ice and Steel from Inner Planes p26 and p27).
Both of these Inner Planes have many naturally-occurring wonders and structures built by its natives.
Canonically, the Negative Energy Plane has only voidstones and the voidstone field that is the Sargasso of Entropy as its only naturally-occurring wonder, and all of its structures originally hail from outside of the plane.
This means that the Negative Energy Plane, unlike the Positive Energy Plane and the Plane of Air, cannot stand on its own merits.
>Also, you could have Positive Energy be the stars & sun while Negative Energy is the void between them. I'm not sure how you could make it "wrap around" then, though.
There is precedent in Spelljammer for a suns and stars being positive-energy-based rather than fire-based, but I am not so sure how the void would necessarily be negative-energy-based.
>>46649440
The Negative Energy Plane also technically has the Fortress of Regrets, but that's not really that important on a cosmological scale. Orcus has a holiday home there too.
I want to run a planescape game. But I'm intimidated by the sheer amount of info available on it. I would be like a year of reading in my spare time to digest it all.
If I were to run a planescape campaign on say, Roll20. And I want to just want to run it based on the info that is in the 5e rulebooks, would that piss people off?
Or how could I run an "authentic" planescape game in the shortest time possible assuming all I had read was the campaign setting box?
>>46652730
Planar cosmology != Planescape. Tone and aesthetic are two big things that define Planescape, and 5E's different cosmology (because it is different, it really isn't the same) has precisely none of that wondrous spellpunk feel to it. You can use planar cosmology but unless you want to learn the setting - you aren't really running Planescape.
>>46652730
I was in a similar place as you, having missed the Planescape boat by being disinterested in it in the 90s.
Read the boxed set and In the cage, and maybe an adventure or two to see some characters described. you can quickly get a sense of the feel, and reading a faction-centric module like the eternal boundary quickly gives you an idea of how the factions interact.
Is it ever explained why deities from Earth religions exist in the Planescape universe?
Is the implication that our world exists somewhere among the planes?
Is there any canon wordcount put towards Athas (the Dark Sun setting) anywhere in the game? I know it's technicslly isolsted, but y'know.
Is there any greater tragedy than Eberron coming out too late to have interactions with Planescape?
What's my best option for playing a furry charactet?
>>46654403
>Is it ever explained why deities from Earth religions exist in the Planescape universe?
because they'd been in D&D since like 1980
>>46654427
>What's my best option for playing a furry charactet
drinking bleach
>>46641806
Is this homestuck?
