Why is it that players these days can't resolve issues within civilization with their fists?
Bar fight? Better murder the fuck out of them with a sword. Scuffle in town square? Bring out the fireballs.
Because +2 to punch, +7 to sword.
Muh optimization.
It'd be nice if they chose to do nonlethal with a sword
>>46639195
-4 toHit.
>>46639132
In fights, they aren't entirely at the mercy of the GM, the dice have their say. Unlike with the totally crafty plot that is guaranteed to fuck them sideways in the name of narrative tension.
>>46639132
Because most players don't even lift, so they make weak as fuck characters.
I dunno man, if your oracle isn't punching bitches, that's his shortcoming
My players won't resolve issues without cutting someone hand off. Thinking about designing a hand-hydra grappling man.
>>46639241
Yeah, but guys in bar fights can't fight for shit anyway. They're cannon fodder and it's embarrassing for PCs to squish them.
Soon as the peasantry stops trying to punch me despite clearly being a heavily armed lawless mercenary.
>>46639254
I'm throwing bar drunkards at them, not high level monks.
>>46639267
>Soon as the peasantry stops trying to punch me despite clearly being a heavily armed lawless mercenary.
>>46639132
Transcendence tip #15: There is a holy mountain inside of you, but I want to hear it one more time before we get started.
>>46639132
because you chose games that decided they would require intense specialization to be good at unarmed, and they didn't want to be mugged by bar people for being in a game that has bullshit unarmed rules.
>>46639623
And if someone walks up and tries to start shit with these guys who's the irrational one around here, really?
>>46639658
well, the bar people would be shitty at unarmed too. They're level 0 peasants, inebriated peasants even. I'd wager that they're extremely retarded as well, picking fights with people above their social class (i.e. will get away with murder).
"I'm a connoisseur arsonist," the stranger tells me. "I prefer to start more avant garde fires"
>>46639699
There is literally no way for the players to tell whether the bar people are actually shit at being unarmed or if the GM is fucking with them using standard GM traps.
So the players go with what they are assured by the system will most likely work, as the system is the only protection players have from the DM outside of punching the DM in the face.
Also, there's the fact that there -are- DMs out there who actively punish players who try to talk their way out of situations, because "fuck diplomancers".
>>46639699
When you pair two shitty fighters against each other eventually one lucks out and knocks down the other. The difference between the army conquering swordsman and the drunken oaf in a fist fight usually comes down to a few points of strength because neither took any levels in the designated unarmed fighter class.
>>46639739
I suppose then it matters whether or not the players trust the GM then. Even in your example, there's another GM trap, as you can just have the city officials/ruling lord hunt them down for murder. We're back to the usual problem with traditional games, you have to trust other people.
>>46639820
and then you kill the lords with your sword.
as
>>46639816
says, if you are playing a system that does not grant regular and large bonuses to all minor combat functions as a player levels, then when they run into a minor combat function like unarmed, they are going to use their primary weapon.
>mfw playing a half-ogre unarmed/throw barbarian
Well my players resort to fist fighting when against normal drunk people. A level 6 fighter with 18-20 strength and 16-20 CON is going to outlast the level 1-2 commoner with 11-14 strength and 10-12 CON in a fist fight. Base attack bonuses are a distinct advantage.
>>46640057
I'm glad they have so much trust in you, you have a good group. We've discussed why most players treat all combat as deadly until asked later.
>>46639132
Because all Americans are trained (or at least indoctrinated) to utilize the maximum amount of force to resolve any conflict.
>>46640286
>>46640286
That dude is an idiot. You have to use the CORRECT amount of overkill to resolve conflict. Prime example: instead of blowing up lettuce to make a salad (like that gif) the guy should have instead used a firecracker to destroy it inside a plastic tub. That way you can recover the salad without digging through ants and dirt.
>>46639132
"I trained for decades to learn how to cast magic at will. I did not learn to punch people.
Therefore: I'm going to electrocute everyone because I'm a wizard, I want to, I'm a wizard, I can, I'm a wizard, I can't throw a punch due to being a wizard, and because I'm a wizard."
>>46639623
Filename kek
>>46639711
>>46639132
At least one of my characters has taken the hit penalty to fight non-lethally with his guisarme, and that's against real opponents.
Another has on at least one occasion tried to get an opponent to back down by being armed and making threats he never intended to carry outagainst an infant.
Another one did actually try to murder someone over something honestly even more petty than a bar fight. Then he did murder one of the guards that tried to break it up.
>>46639816
The fighter has a much higher bab though
>>46639132
Because people inherently take the path of least resistance. Whatever feels like the easiest way to resolve a situation is what most people will do most of the time. In a game where most characters are very good at killing people, and where there are no real world consequences to their actions, players will fall back on violence more often than not.
>>46639132
Depending on the context of 'scuffle in town square' it's perfectly reasonable to retaliate with a weapon. The thing about getting beaten up is that they can can beating you which means you'll die. Either way you'd be completely at someone's mercy. You don't want to be evenly matched with your foe because that increases your chances of getting beaten and killed. This is why weapons were made in the first place.
Throw in the facts that places like medieval england had a higher murder rate than modern London (or New York), people often carried around knives, duels were acceptable, areas with less infrastructure all lawbreakers were executed to deal with the problem swiftly, and it's even more justifiable.
>>46639132
>Why is it that players these days
Nice bait.
>>46639132
Because players are disconnected from their characters.
If you want to have your players get in a bare-handed scuffle, you have to make them fight you in real life.
>>46639260
15/10
>>46640286
My experience in the military was funny in this regard.
It was always like "Remember to use the minimum force necessary!" and then a bunch of explanations justifying an immediate transition from verbal warnings to lethal force in any force protection scenario other than "there are a bunch of hippies on the boat", which only warrants spraying them with a firehose until they leave or an approaching small boat, which has the extra steps of optical hailing device and LRAD prior to the application of a lightmachine gun.
I've never experienced this problem, OP. I think you're probably doing a bad job setting their expectations, or you have a crop of terrible players.
