Everyone is so disgusted with the new space marine supplement that nobody bothered to make a thread edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
Okay, Dreadnought-obsessed White Scar sucessor chapter who take the same level of obsession regular WS have and apply it to their walking coffins.
Or in tabletop terms, lots and lots of Hit and Run dreads.
What'd be a good name for the chapter?
"Space marine supplements" sound like some marketing chucklefucks idea for selling vitamin tablets to nerds.
>>46563736
Manz are indeed (M)eg(A)(N)ob(Z)
Because they're boys shooting worse than bolters. For 70 points you can buy your grot tax, and you can spend the rest of the points on units to try and win the match.
Do shoota boys have a place? Can be argued, but its a MSU investment of 105 points (without a Nob) just to get the Boy squad and Trukk. It starts to add up very fast and you don't get anything for it.
Might as well ask for the epubs for the new books as well :)
>>46565226
The Coffin Dodgers
>>46565239
thats a good point. What about small units of ard boyz? i imagine no cause of the point cost.
Also on another note. I defiantly want to take tank bustas but should i take them in a trukk? or a full unit in a battlewagon?
>>46565226
The Vengeful Dead
Seems to me like making this chapter will be quite the...
Undertaking.
>>46565226
It's not really realistic for a chapter to have more than maybe 12 dreads, or to have them all in one place.
>>46565260
Surely they'd be the dodgin' coffins thanks to hit&run and fleet on the dreads.
>>46565319
Just because you said that, their First Company is now the Dreadnought Company.
>>46565302
I take 2 or 3 units of 6 in trukks. They are cheap, not high priority, and you can sometimes outflank them.
So I've been putting off making up my BaC Cataphractii for a while, but with this release I might actually assemble the buggers.
What's the best loadout going to be? 4 with dual LCs, one LC / Heavy Flamer?
>>46565163so are the rules for catii-termies the same as the 30k ones? (4++, S&P)
>>46565418
Take a couple of fists just in case you end up in one of those unwinnable combats with some 2+ saves.
>>46565366
I want to see these guys in Space Hulk.
>THIS IS NOT WORKING BROTHERS.
>>46565445
So I could stick a powerfist or chainfist on Flamer Guy, but besides him, taking a fist means adding a combi-bolter to the squad, which is a bit meh...
>>46565434
This is what we have so far
>>46565463
I'm pretty sure 100 Dreadnoughts could force their way through some debris easy enough.
Finally got all the bits I need to make a CC crusader squad in a LRC. i know some of them can take power weapons, what do you guys think i should give them?
>>46565489
i would definitlystick one or two chainfists in there, they are not too expensive but the squad can get tied up by stuff like contemptor/ironclad dreadnaughts with AV13 front. They are rather hard to take down with powerfists and laugh at lightning claws.
>>46565434
40k doesnt get combi weapons
>>46565366
Fluff them as Mechanicus fuccbois who get to use dread bodies like Centurions (ie don't gotta be dead) because they found an ~STC~ or some such.
>>46565538
I mentally pictured the main Space Marine Chapter's dreadnaughts unionize and go on strike to get what they want.
>yfw 100 dreadnaughts force their way.
I wonder if there is at least 1 guy on the design team saying 2y'know guys, maybe we should do something about orks, CSM, SoB and the like? I mean it's a perfect time, look we gotta do 2 CSM updates at once!". Doesn't anybody truly give a fuck? What are the reasonings?
I mean with how many employees GW has under its wing and how footloose and social the BL writers are, you'd think you could get some info or a short interview with one of the designers about their choices and if they genuinely think CSM are fine.
![Screenshot_2016-04-09-15-31-38[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6btqsE3.jpg "Screenshot_2016-04-09-15-31-38[1].jpg")
Index is out. Basically no new formations, but we still lack the rules for the IF, Salamander and IH decurion.
>>46565648
You know you could prolly just lop a marine's limbs off and stick him in there without waiting for an injury anyhow.
Wait until he's asleep then play it off as a harmless hazing prank.
>>46565697
BL writers are basically just interns. like they have no power in the company at all.
all the higher ups are tight lipped
>>46565628
Still, cheap weapon swaps for the sergeant, and a grenade harness. basically better than normal tactical terminators
>terminator lord cadre is 14 dollars less than terminators plus lord
>gw actually discounting something... that's pretty cool
>48 dollars for the DV cultists and the DV champ
>wat
>>46565720
We know who the codex writers are though, like Phil Kelly. Can't anything be done to pick their brains or some shit?
>>46565648
For maximum tech heresy, an entire Chapter of dreads with a Contemptor first company.
>>46565628
I thought chaos got combi bolters (the twin linked bolter ones), aren't those what these guys>>46565522 have?
>>46565434
30k cataphractii aren't S&P anymore. The FAQ changed their rules to technically be S&P, but not really. Probably didn't want people to put cheap cataphractii characters into squads full of Heavy weapons to give them Relentless.
>>46565522
>no option for combi-weapons
>no option for power weapons
Can't wait for the next codex to just ignore them completely, forcing people to just field them as regular terminators.
>>46565779
So imperial farsight enclaves.
>>46565788
combi weapons =/= combi bolter
combi weapon means combi plasma, etc, they get those in 30k.
>>46565697
The studio is all new men and wymn who prefer airsofting to design
And under kirby studio did what they wanted when they wanted and everyone else had to scramble to make it sellable
The studio have no connection to the customers so have no idea what people want and barely understand what is actually practical for models
So we get models with lots of scraps of plastic detailing that is okay if you only display it but can't take being transported for games - let alone how it's a lodestone for bubbling etc
>>46565788
He means that in 30k every terminator can swap his combirequiem for a combimelta, combiplasma or combiflamer, an option not available to 40k ones.
>>46565698
So there's really no reason for any of us that play non vanilla chapters to buy that book then? Man I like that GW isn't expecting everyone to buy the book but I'd like it if we got something at least.
>>46565779
So that's why all the other Chapters don't have many Dreads.
These guys stole them all.
>>46565775
Not anymore no names no pack drill now
>>46565835
If by not playing vanilla chapters you mean DA, SW and BA players, then no. It's a Vanilla Space Marine supplement, why would someone that doesn't play the vanilla codex be interested in it?
>>46565844
What's the standard equipment for a Tactical Dreadnought Squad?
Heavy Bolter and fist, 1 in 5 can take a different ranged weapon?
>>46565835
There's the psychic powers, but just buy the cards or bring a printout of the table.
>>46565723
neither one is particularly good.
cataphractii cant run so good luck getting to fight anything, unless you are running spartans/LRs. deepstriking cataphractii wont get them into combat, and their bolter shots are irrelevant
>>46565824
>plastic
>bubbling
I have literally never seen that.
>>46565543
anyone?
>>46565892
> you are running spartans/LRs
err, you weren't? i mean foot slogging terminators are just BEGGING to be hit with a vindicator, and TH/SS get to enjoy a million lasguns/shoots/whatever.
>>46565226
Is it possible to find in the fluff a successor chapter that goes against a dictate of their founding chapters like this?
Something like Iron Hands believing the body to be a temple that has to be preserved, berserker Raven Guard orloyalist Dark Angels?
>>46565881
That's what I'm saying, it's good that they didn't stick a little something for those other codices in the book for a cheap sales grab, but I would've liked it if there were clauses about how certain other chapters could use the formations in the book or something.
Maybe it's just because the name threw me off at first. I knew there was a vanilla marines supplement coming out but I didn't think they'd call it that, so at first I assumed it was for the DA/BA and the vanilla one was coming out later on.
>>46565960
>err, you weren't?
i 30k you can just deepstrike units of 5 of them with combi plasma/combi meltas (assuming you are playing a legion/RoW with access to deep strike)
th/ss are still better in combat and better in vehicles
>>46565967
That Iron Hands part of your post is an actual Chapter, I think. can't remember their name thogh.
>>46565967
Chapter that takes the Iron Hands approach, but with bioengineered flesh grafts instead of metal.
>>46565967
>berserker Raven Guard
thats what the raven guard were until that faggot corax fucked them up
So are Marines really better at Tank Company than guard are?
>>46565522
>FREE master crafted power sword on champ
>FREE power fists on regular dudes
>FREE lightning claws
>FREE power first for champ
>chainfist, 5 pts
>regular power weapon on champ
>7 points for fists on regular dudes
>7 points for a pair of lightning claws
>22 points for a fist on the champ
>12 points for chainfist
>>46566111
yeah but the only thing that makes them worth taking isnt available in 40k. kek
>7 point combi-weapon
>>46565894
Sorry I meant to say failcast
>>46565967
Berserker raven guard are basically what the space sharks are.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arkhas_Fal
What characteristics would have a Tau Sept based on the Soviets/NKVD/KGB/GRU? What kind of planet/solar system would be ideal?
>>46566012
eh in 30k i do AL infiltrate, so havent played much with the different LR.
in 40k, of course TH/SS are better. they are also almost 30% more expencive
>>46566111
you cant compare 30k to 40k, they have a very different pricing structure
>>46565916
What's an lrc?
>>46566131
Thank fucking god. I'dve rioted in the streets if Loyalists had gotten combi-weapon termis as the final fuck you on the shit cake that GW gave us CSM players.
>>46566208
land raider crusader
>>46566131
I still don't get why anyone would ever take a combi weapon.
Yay, you got to shoot for one turn. Now you have a bolter.
>>46566237
Either this is bait, or you are bad at the game.
>>46566203
I wasn't comparing 30k to 40k
that was a comparison of 40k cataphracti to 40k chaos terminators
>>46566111
>regular power weapon on champ
>7 points for fists on regular dudes
>7 points for a pair of lightning claws
>12 points for chainfist
>regular power weapon on champ
>10 points for fists on regular dudes
>15 points for a pair ofwolfclaws
>15 points for chainfist
Yet CSM keep complaining
>>46566237
basically give you massive tactical flexibility. esp. in the case of melta guns, which you generally only get to fire once anyway
>space marines get more op formations
>some factions are still in 6th edition
>>46566237
One turn of useful shooting is better than no turns of useful shooting.
>>46566237
>take combi-weapon
>blast something to death
>then die
>don't take combi-weapon
>get to re-roll to hit with bolter
>then die
I wonder about that myself as well...
>>46566237
i hope this is bait
>>46566180
yeah but the difference between a 3+ and a 4+ is huge
right now cataphractii are worse than chaos terminators, which is good.
>>46566263
welp, thats what we get for being an NPC faction. i mean are you surprised at this point?
>>46566250
I grasp the idea of suicide squads, I just also acknowledge it's kind of a dumb idea.
"Oh, I'm only going to get to use this melta once anyhow, lol"
Play with redundancy, but don't just toss shit away.
>>46566278
>>some factions don't sell
ftfy
>>46566278
>space marines get four new decurions
>Chaos gets two supplements with zero
>>46566300
no not really
in 40k, just like in real life, I am unimportant and easily ignored
>>46566111
You are comparing bullshit to bullshit. You know what matters?
>you can't run, so you'll never reach combat.
>no combiweapon or heavy weapons different from a heavy flamer that can't fire overwatch, so you suck at shooting.
>>46566325
>second most collected faction on 40k general
>doesn't sell
okay friendo
>>46566111
They're actually 10pts cheaper than 5 chaos termis with 4 power fists (not including one on champ). I now truly believe the theory that GW keeps chaos shit so that people buy space marines
>>46566230
Oh. Well Crusaders only get storm shields and power weapons, no actual options per se.
>>46566293
the difference between 3+ and 4+ is precisely %16.66 (rec). its not THAT big. this is even more so when the main counter to TH/SS terminators round here is a shit ton of saves
>>46566267
at least you guys get wolf riders and wulfen
our closest units, spawn and warp talons, don't even compare
though spawn are one of our better units
>>46566376
>not just playing them as chaos terminators with combi weapons
its like the best unit in our book
>>46566366
They're (((collected))) by a bunch of jaded manchildren that hate GW and deep down only want to play edgy space marines.
>>46566391
>what is heldrake
>what are lvl3 socs with daemon
>what are daemon princes
m8, there good, but not THAT good
>>46566292
I'm not saying "why take combi weapons on terminators", I'm saying "why design a part of your list around one turn of effective shooting".
>>46566413
>dinobot shit
>demon shit
fuck that
>>46566376
I am already using space marine models to represent my chaos marines, as the CSM models are now ancientand they cost the same as the modern space marine models, which are better looking and come with tons more bits. Why would I not use the better models?
They should just last chance the old CSM kits and release a chaos upgrade sprue for space marines.
and while they are at it, just make 8th edition CSM a supplement to space marines
>>46566377
??
>>46566430
>claim meh-minators are the best thing ever
>get pointed to the real goodness of chaos
>well thats not REAL chaos
get out
>>46566430
Play loyalists already, you clearly don't want to play CSM in the way GW are taking them.
>>46566459
>chaos upgrade sprue for space marines.
You misspelled downgrade.
>>46566430
>not loving the dinobots
I just don't understand you.
>>46566430
>>46566413
>>46566467
>dinobots
>cultists
>flying princes
>wizards for summoning daemons
>all of CSM's best units are the least fun things ever
if I wanted daemons I would have played daemons
>>46566430
The funny thing about chaos fan is that they whine all the time about not being just spiky space marines but at the same time refuse to play anything that is not spiky space marine because its not true chaos.
>>46566459
Just fucking squat us already and put me out of my misery. At least I play word bearers so I can use them in 30k
>>46566504
If you didn't want chaos in chaos you should have just played Dark Angels.
>>46566377
>Not realising that everything in 40kg is about space marines
Black Templar Crusader Squad.
>>46566504
wait wait wait. so you LITERALLY want to play loyalists who occasionally go 'oh i really hate that emperor chappie, grrr he makes me mad'
>>46566488
I want renegades teetering on the edge of damnation, resorting to unorthodox tactics and an eclectic collection of wargear
>>46566563
>eclectic collection of wargear
like what, tell me exactly what the fuck you mean.
I used to play in 5th edition but stopped because of life/school/work.
Redpill me on whats changed.
Which Space Marine Legion/Chapter/Warband is the *edgiest*?
>>46566581
oh boy...
>Formations
>detachments
>allies
>Lords of war
>knight titans
>skitarii
>horus heresy stuff
>AP on melee weapons
and thats just the surface. dont worry though: chaos is still shit
>>46566208
land raider crusader
>>46566581
They replaced buyable psychic powers which activate on a leadership test with uh...
A completely random psychic phase, basically. It's fucking awful, unfluffy, awkward and varies wildly between useless and broken with zero middle ground.
>>46566559
Lori worst idol
>>46566634
err, you already posted them
>>46566649
come on dude, already answered, read the thread
>>46566666
Witnessed.
>>46565543
I think they might only be able to take power swords. But I could be wrong.
Maybe I'm thinking about the SoB ones.
>>46566634The Purge
>>46566578
I want more than just rhinos. Surely renegades who take whatever they want might use something more than just the most basic transport ever?
I want more weapon options, especially on characters. You'd think a chaos lord would have all the best loot to himself right?
I want more weapon options in general, and not just "Space Marines: Poverty Simulation Edition"
>>46566079
The guard tank company gives bs4(which SM already are), buffs tank shock and ramming (which nobody cares about, except for rhino vs stormsurge scenarios), and forces the attacker to roll two die on the vehicle damage table(half of which space marines can actively ignore now)
Space marine tanks are less armoured, but the whole detachment can ignore crew shaken+stunned. For the IG tank formation they have to be close to the enginseer to get buffed.
This means that a vindicator in this decurion will snapshot only if it wants to move farther than 6".
So yeah, judge it as you like
>>46566675
not going to lie, i dont watch anime, just liked the pic
>>46566581
CSM, Orks, Tyranids and maybe IG are shit
Sisters still have the same models
Tau, Eldar and Space Marines are still OP
They introduced Mechanicus as a faction which is the dankest shit going
A bunch of mini-armies like Harlequins, Imperial knights, and Tempestus scions were introduced
The new assassin models are actually pretty good looking
What kind of beach wear do Astartes use?
>>46566563
if you want to play "basically still loyalists but on their way to being huge cunts" play from the space marine codex.
CSM is for full blown huge cunts. They have taken the chalice of huge cuntery in hand and drunk deep. The cunt flows through them and consumes them. They are cunts who have ascended above and beyond the level of being huge.
>>46566685
so you want space marines + a bunch of shit with no sacrifices? the we get the opposite problem, with CSM and SM switching places!
>>46566709
Mk. VII
>>46566709
Power Speedo.
>>46566722
I'm ok with paying a premium on points for stuff, as long as I get premium stuff for it
when I pay a premium for the basics it just makes me sad
>>46565522
If anything, it makes more sense for the CSM to still have Cataphractii Terminator Armor over the Imperium.
>>46566705
IG aren't anywhere near the CSM/Ork/Tyranids tier. DEldar are closer to that tier than to the middle.
>>46566712
And yet they're shittier than regular astartes, with no new wargear to reflect their cuntery.
>>46566666
WITNESSED
>>46566712
triggered
>>46566666
WITNESSEDfuck off satanyou're completely correct about the psychic phase though
>>46566722
Are you retarded or just pretending? Point out where he said he wanted shit with no sacrifices. Point out where he said he didn't want to have to pay for that shit. Fucking do it, faggot.
>>46566762
Not especially. They should both have it in small amounts unless the FW that produced cataphractii/tartaros went traitor, then yeah CSM should be well geared in that stuff.
>>46566563
So the Relictors? Dude the relictors use Codex Space Marine.
>>46566722
>Space marines get loyalist versions of chaos only things (Centurions = Obliterators)
>Space Marines get access to more psychic disciplines than CSM
>Space Marines get access to better/more horus heresy gear than CSM
>Space Marines suddenly get their own psychic power disciplines that is both better and more than twice as large as their CSM counterparts
>Now Space Marines even get a formation that gives them free daemonic possession on their entire army without the downsides
>"Stop trying to be SM+1 guys! Accept your lot as NPCs for me to slaughter."
Legit kill yourself.
>>46566581
Vehicles have hull points(can die from lots of glances) but can't get stunned by 1 glance.
Aircraft and winged monstrous creatures now have apocalypse-style flyer rules.
Tau and Eldar have some really overpowered cheese.
There's a "Lord of War" force organization slot either for your faction's leader special character or a super-heavy. This means some people will bring a super-heavy to non-Apocalypse games, which can sometimes be a dick move.
Alternate army lists are called "formations" or "decurions" now, you can take multiple army lists in one army with rules for allies though most groups have limits on this. Some lists have really overpowered special rules.
Adeptus Mechanicus, Eldar Harlequins and Knight Titans are now playable armies with entire codexes of their own.
Any unit can score objectives but units with "objective secured"(troops in regular force org, certain tyranid and space marine formations) take priority holding objectives over units without it.
"Snap Shots"(6s to hit, can't fire blasts) are now a thing, for inaccurate shots. They are for shooting heavy weapons with infantry/too many weapons on vehicles after you move, shooting at aircraft with weapons that aren't dedicated AA, and shooting in response to getting charged. Tau and Dark Angels are good at shooting in response to getting charged.
Psychic Powers work like magic in WHFB now. Ironically with the release of Age of Sigmar, magic in WHFB now works like psychic powers in 40k used to work...
>>46566799
calm down m8. what he said was
>I want more weapon options, especially on characters. You'd think a chaos lord would have all the best loot to himself right?
>I want more weapon options in general, and not just "Space Marines: Poverty Simulation Edition"
where exactly does he say
'oh we should loose X Y and Z'
>>46566763
All the IG players around me complain loudly so I just assumed they were shit. Only ever met like 3 DE players but they were the most chilled guy's I've ever met
>>46566559
yes.
demons and dinobots are fucking gay
>>46565522
So......their terminators with no invuln? Or do they have a 4+ invun. Might actually be useful with a 4+.
Wait, it looks like they dont teleport. Unless that is also built in.
>>46566748
the further explain what I am talking about, I am even ok with paying more than loyalists for stuff, as long as I have access to everything and the basics are still cheap
if someone wanted a plasma gun on their lord why not? CSM don't play by the rules, if the lord really wanted a grav cannon and he found one lore wise it would make sense for him to do what he wanted, instead of "oh protocol states that the plasma gun goes to a squad of basic troops, but not more than two a squad!"
further more what is the deal with transports? The most wanted criminals in the galaxy can't steal a car?
In the current climate of zero balance, chaos marines -should- be just Space Marines +1 with a pile of extra shit.
Also on an unrelated note SM don't have any decent Lords of War.
>>46566883
>I have never opened a codex in my life
>>46566883
4+ invuln
they dont teleport in 30k unless you buy them the upgrade, so unless they have some built in 40k rule they dont teleport
>>46566829
you what nigga? he said he wanted to be SM +1, which WOULD reverse the problem. note how i still think there is a problem, i just don't think swapping the power level fixes it.
>Space marines get loyalist versions of chaos only things (Centurions = Obliterators)
honestly, if there was a straght 1:1 conversion, with similar overall power level, then THAT is how you would balance it. for example, giving chaos man-portable ectoplams cannon to counter part gav weapons would be nice. buff the chaos psy trees to be equal to the new marines shit ect.
>>46566854
IG are solidly middle of the pack. They like to bitch and moan because their power list has essentially been the same since 5e.
>>46566853
>CSM should lose what they already have if they want anything new
So you're not pretending to be retarded.
>>46566883
>So......their terminators with no invuln? Or do they have a 4+ invun. Might actually be useful with a 4+.
>Wait, it looks like they dont teleport. Unless that is also built in.
The deep strike capability and the invulnerable save has always been in the Terminator armour rules.
>>46566929
But in 30k even normal terminators can't teleport iirc, so they probably can in 40k.
Reading these threads I become more and more convinced that what Chaos players really want is for most of the actual unique chaos shit to go into a R&H codex (dinobots etc.), then have Chaos Space Marines be a codex supplement for Space Marines with changes that are on the same level as Chapter Tactics.
>>46566951
>CSM should lose what they already have if they want anything new
>So you're not pretending to be retarded.
nice stawman there m8, seeing as i never said that
>>46566887
when I look at the inquisition codex I get really envious about the amount of freedom they have, but at the same time kind of sad that:
>inquisitors are real pushovers, even if you pump tons of points into them they will never be threatening on their own
>it is a mini codex. I like most of what's there, but more would be great
>>46566829
I play loyalists, but I'm pissed at GW for neglecting traitors. CSM are a really interesting faction and frankly ought to be a challenge for my guys.
I email GW yesterday like I said I would btw, they said that a new CSM codex is bound to come out eventually but not necessarily soon, and they aren't at liberty to reveal release dates.
>>46566883
>>46566929
Also slow and purposeful so no running or overwatch
>>46566907
Yeah, SM really need a big Gargantuan Creature Lord of War of some sort.
Maybe an Ogryn who could accept gene seed or something.
>>46566883
Whether they teleport will be under the 'Cataphractii Terminator armour (pg. 57), just like the invul will.
>>46566854
>All the IG players around me complain loudly so I just assumed they were shit.
They must be new fags who jumped in when Leafblower gaurd was top shit. If you've been playing IG long enough, you should be used to being shit to mid tier.
Honestly, I preffer it that way. It makes IG feel like an underdog. And it makes beating (or getting your teeth kicked in by) high powered xenos and heretics through skill and determination more fun.
>>46566417
So that you'll have at least one turn of effective shooting instead of none? Like, it's not rocket science.
>>46566932
>man-portable ectoplasm cannon
So you think plasma cannons with +1 Str and -12" is equal to the unmitigated BS that is grav weaponry?
Can warp talons be deployed or do i need to deep-strike them?
>>46566887
i have had similar thoughts for a while: insted of having all the many HQs, jsut have 1: that chaos lord. then give him like 4 tables, which he can pick two, something like
>deamonic rewards (this is how you get deamon prince)
>panalpy of war (termi armour, plasma guns ect
>magic shit
>techno shit
boom , now you can make any type of HQ you want
>>46566964
Pretty much. While all these daemon engines and all that are cool, nobody really asked for them. What we've been asking for is Legion tactics and entries with decent pricing. We'd be content with a plain with delicious pound cake but we've been given a shitload of random expensive "gourmet" hit-or-mostly-miss designer food that makes no fucking sense and is a gangbang of discordant flavours.
A fucking huge percentage of us CSM players just want to feel like we're playing our favourite legions without having to bend over backwards and accept molestation.
>>46567001
>a new CSM codex is bound to come out eventually
Its going to be the new ork dex 2.0 where it fixes nothing and nerfs the army even more. Do not delude yourself into thinking GW will actually throw CSM players a bone, this release has proved they have no intention of doing that.
>>46567025
eh, the gap between str 8 and str 7 is quite big, but say we throw on a re-roll invuns thing, and i would say yes. remember
>grav cant cause ID
>grav is shit vs 6+
>grav is even shorter range
>>46566964
yeah
keep the retarded demon shit in the demon book and let us choose to ally it in or whatever
>>46566964
There's really no reason for Chaos Space Marines not to have the equivalent of chapter tactics.
They kinda do that with mono-god cult troops, but what if you want to play an undivided legion? And what if you are World Eaters or Thousand Sons and your special snowflake mono-god troops are overcosted and crappy?
>>46567023
Here's a craaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy idea:
Take something that gets more than one turn of effective shooting you nonce.
>>46567074
>Deamon engines
> the product of mad magos binding daemons in machines they build
>should be in the daemon codex
?
>>46566417
Because you dont know what your opponent is taking? And flexability may mean "oh cool, I can teleport in near that knights back armor and make him choose front or side facing for his shield.
>>46567105
terminators can deep strike, and if they survive a turn, they still have 2 power weapon attacks each
>>46566964
Chaos players don't know what they want anymore. They see Space Marines getting new shit that is objectively better than stuff they've always had and are confused. They see new rules and chapter tactics and the ability to play any fluffy chapter in a semi competitive way then look at their cad and want those options also.
Then they look at their codex and ork's codex and they aren't sure anymore. They want new stuff, but they don't want more nerfs.
So they complain because that is the only way to vent.
>>46567033
3.5 Chaos Codex was like that.
>>46566964
Yeah. Look at HH, where chaos players are just loyalist with a chapter tactic and is beloved by everyone.
Chaos players don't want to play chaos, they want to play space marine but rebels.
>>46567108
>daemons being their own codex
?
>>46567031
Never, ever, under any circumstance, deep strike Warp Talons.
For fucks sake people, they're a jump unit. The entire -point- is to be fast enough to not need alternate deployment.
>>46566977
No one ever said CSM should be Marines +1, but your dumbass keeps harping on about it.
>>46567064
Probably. I just want it to come out so I can move on.
>>46567146
>what is a deamonic incursion
>>46567033
I think it'd be cool if they did that for all the entries.
If you give the squad enough points of upgrades, it moves from troops to elite, or troops to Heavy Support etc.
>>46567105
Yeah, I'll just take all of these units that can take special weapons on every model.
>>46567105
Combi weapons are available on models that can't take special weapons (sergeants, characters), and are prioritised after taking real special weapons for the squad in many cases
For suicide squads, spending more points on multiple uses is literally pissing those points away.
Combis and special weapons both have their places.
>>46567173
humm COULD work. the only problem is you end with with like 3 actual codex entries and the rest is a mess of wargear tables, hell to build a army out of
>>46567108
>demon shit
>made my dark mech
just put that shit in the admech book then, i dont want it
dinobots can fuck off
>>46567155
I KNOW and that's why I'm asking.
I'll play a game with a friend's models and I want to field a group with mark of Khorne but if I had to deep-strike them I'd have thought twice about that.
>>46567167
Something that doesn't need its own codex.
>>46567204
It would be great.
Three unit entries and four pages of upgrades for each unit. The codex would be Chaos.
>>46566923
>I am in it for the (you). They have only ever been in 30k, but everyone who plays with toys should know all their stats by heart, so I think I will shitpost.
>>46567206
see >>46567139
and >>46566548
i for one love my daemon engines, and just wish the defiler was not shit on toast
>>46566964
Dinobots get a bad rep because they were added while all the changes people wanted were neglected.
Chaos players want Chaos options, but it's be nice if they weren't dinobots or Daemon units making a courtesy call.
>>46567101
>There's really no reason for Chaos Space Marines not to have the equivalent of chapter tactics.
There is also no reason for them to have them, as every faction that is not Vanilla SM has subfactions too but don't whine about not having special rules for the Sautekh dinasty or for Vostroyans.
>>46567236
and yet people have fun with it every day. does this annoy you?
>>46567247
>Sammael doesn't have a jetbike
wtf I hate dark angels now
>>46567101
One of the writers has mentioned this before: basically GW think that because there really isnt any coherency, out side of the black legion, a set of chapter tactics shouldn't be given to chaos.
not saying i agree with that, thats just their stance
>>46567260
Necrons do need more options. 7e blandified the shit out of them.
People have wanted regiment rules back for ages.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Can a grey knight army be competitive without any dreadknights? I have a hardon for terminators and want to start a nemesis strike force but I hate the look and cheese of the dreadknight. For context, I play in a relatively casual meta with nids, necrons, khorne CSM, tau, and IG.
>>46567247
Terminators literally never had the invulnerable save or the deep strike rule in their unit profile. They have always been in the terminator armour wargear.
Asking about them missing from the unit entry literally means having never read the entry of any unit capacle of having a terminator armour, which means having never read a marine, chaos space marine or inquisition codex, which is a good 50% of the existing codexes.
>>46567321
>Chaos has no unified doctrines
>therefore they should all be the same
GW is either a pack of incompetent regards or a pack of malicious retards. Either way, their opinions are worth less than dog shit.
>>46567324
Yeah why not, wait a week and get 2+/4++ rerollable on your terminators.
Hey /tg/, new guy here. I'm about to get into the tabletop, and I've chosen Salamanders as my faction. Am I making a mistake? Are they appealing both fluff and gameplay wise? Anything wrong with them?
Daily reminder that CSM aren't allowed to take big spawns because of reasons
>>46567316
What about "its a unit that has only previously been in 30k, perhaps it does not work exactly the same as current terminators, mayhaps it does not have a built in invulnerable save. I think I will ask" were you not able to comprehend?
>>46567349
good. deamons actually having an interesting range, and a full codex is fun.
>>46567380
THIS shit on the other hand...
>>46567380
Isn't the elite one that CSM CAN take the better choice?
>>46567371
Thanks mate. Is that from one of the new psychic powers coming out + sanctuary?
>>46567394
the bit where you are a dumb faggot. oh no wait, i got that bit fine
>>46565698
I just have to remember to be aware that nowadays with Space Marine they mean Codex Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines, not the whole of the Adeptus Astartes
>>46567322
>>46567322
>People have wanted regiment rules back for ages.
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Regiments rules would be cool as hell as would be hivefleet rules or Orks Clans rules. Everyone wants rules for their subfaction.
The difference is that only chaosfags whine about it nonstop while there is absolutely no reason for them to deserve it more than any other faction.
>>46567408
eh, yes but and 80 point MC with D5+4 attacks on the charge is quite fun
>>46567408
You tell me...It's funny though because it actually is daemonic and it does make sense for daemons to have them
>>46567375
as you can see from this train wreck of a thread, SM (and so sallies) are doing just fine ATM
>>46567453
>The difference is that only chaosfags whine about it nonstop while there is absolutely no reason for them to deserve it more than any other faction.
>waaa my poor IG dont get regiments
whats stopping you from running the DKoK list from FW? whats stopping you from running a tank company? etc
Lore question.
In pretty much every single galaxy-scale map of the imperium, the borders of the 5 Segmentum can be clearly seen. However, there always appears to be an unlabelled area overlapping both Segmentum Obscuris and Segmentum Pacificus centred upon the Eye of Terror. What is this box?
>>46567415
Yeah, look into allying inquisition in for back field objective holding and more reliable deep strikes too. They used to be the same army but got broken up to make more money, leaving both sides lacking without each other.
>>46567408
Eh, giant Chaos Spawn are pretty great, although they'd just add to the Heavy Support bloat CSM has. The dinobots really need moved into Elites and Fast Attack.
>>46567375
>Anything wrong with them?
theyre niggers
>>46567074
>>46567380
>Keep the demon shit in the demon book!
>Why CSM can't take demonic stuff!
>>46567489
>60 more points
>+1 str, WS and I
>IWND
>5++
>shit attacks
>DI on ld 5
HA, fuck off
>>46567489
Surely that's a misprint? Why would daemons have it but not CSM? I thought FW actually liked CSM
>>46566763
>And yet they're shittier than regular astartes, with no new wargear to reflect their cuntery
They've got plenty of crazy new shit. It doesn't stop existing just because Dinobots upset you.
>>46567105
Name one infantry unit with more than one turn of effective shooting that isn't "Oh if I roll very well I can kill 4 marines within 12" of me."
>>46567543
this nigger gets it
>>46567495
>whats stopping you from running the DKoK list from FW? whats stopping you from running a tank company? etc
Whats stopping you from running the Purge list from FW? From playing a monogod army? Etc
>>46567453
CSM lack a unified combat doctrine. The faction is made up of several diametrically opposed groups that fight in wildly different ways. They deserve/need subfaction rules, or the options to represent those subfactions, more than any other faction, excepting Orks and DEldar.
>>46567465
Actually wait what the fuck am I saying. The Spined Chaos beast is fucking TERRIBLE. Almost double the points for Daemonic Instability, half leadership value, less attacks and no armour save.
You can't make this shit up!
>>46567551
okay
>heavy weapons team
do i get a prize?
>>46567375
They get new stuff next saturday, and being SM they are pretty good.
>>46567570
>Whats stopping you from running the Purge list from FW? From playing a monogod army?
they are dogshit
unlike the tank company which is probably your best possible army list
>>46565522
So let me get this straight, Cataphractii Terminators are only available to Codex: Space Marines? And you can take 30 of them in a CAD?
Nevermind that Cataphractii armor is considered obsolete and is even rarer than regular Terminator armor, as it says right there in the fluff on the page?
Nevermind that Dark Angels were the ones who had all the nice tech during the Great Crusade, and have more suits of Terminator armor than any other thousand man chapter except maybe Iron Hands?
Nevermind that the Lunar Wolves First Company, the Justaerin, aka Abaddon's personal warband, could deploy their full force in Cataphractii armor?
>>46567551
Crisis Sluts.
>>46567508
The Eye of Terror.
>>46567598
>heavy weapons team he says
ahahahahah
I'm hoping for mostly serious answers, so please be gentle.
>GW brings back one of the lost primarchs
>they're female, so their whole chapter and any successors are all female
>but the marines still ultra-mutated normal super soldiers with no boob plate or anything like that
How would you gauge the reaction of such a decision?
>>46567628
The box is just a region the Imperium designates as being the Eye of Terror? Strange, because the Eye of Terror is far, far smaller than that box.
>>46567528
Do you see the Daemon rule anywhere on that Giant Spawn, retard?
>>46567614
>have more suits of Terminator armor than any other thousand man chapter except maybe Iron Hands?
You know iron hands lost nearly all their suits of TDA at Istvaan right?
>>46567641
id boycott gw.
feminist faggots can fuck off, blizzard knows how to treat em.
>>46567574
>The faction is made up of several diametrically opposed groups that fight in wildly different ways
This could be applied to basically every existing faction. World Eaters and Thousand Sons have as much common ground as Elysian and DKoK.
>>46567662
>>46567638
>all las cannons
> can pop transport and mid tanks
>all autocannon
>can have fun times with both infantry and light vehicles
>ect
you should be at least passable at the game before posting
>>46567516
>although they'd just add to the Heavy Support bloat CSM has
No they doesn't,Daemon exclusive
>>46567528
>Why CSM can't take demonic stuff!
What exactly makes chaos spawns daemonic? It would make more sense if Chaos Beast was for Daemons and Spawn was for CSM
>>46567641
>so please be gentle
fuck off nigger
it would be retarded because theres no precedent for it, and it would just give tumblr free ammo to go after our hobby because "A WHOLE GROUP OF SOLELY FEMALE CHARACTERS GOT MURDERED BY A BUNCH OF EVIL MEN GW HATES WOMEN YOU'RE LITERALLY RAPING ME"
>>46567316
>Front and Side AV14
Has it always been like this? Thats fucking amazing,
>>46567641
see
>>46567434
>>46567655
I thought the Ultras had the second most TDA, numbering around 60-70 suits?
>>46567655
Oh right, I just remembered that. They have lots of dreadnoughts and artificer armor, not Terminators. I stand corrected.
>>46567641
Bringing back one of the two redacted triggers me, female space marines don't.
>>46567614
Dude stop. Numbers of fieldable models on the tabletop have never been correlated to their actual rarity. You can field more purifiers in a GK army than they exist in the galaxy. You can play an army with 6 Ultramarine Chapter Masters + Calgar.
>Cult of Slaugher
Ok maybe? cultists are no really a good unit and this gives them marginally more staying power but not really enough
>brethren of the dark covenant
nice enough, but the choice of units in the formation is unfortunate
>kranon's helguard
actually not bad, provided you don't actually use the DV chosen
>Disciples of Mannon
neat, but not really good and there is zero synergy between the two units in the formation
>The Ravagers
actually really good for plasma chosen, but why are the possessed in there???
>The red onslaught
a decurion that is actually decent, and possibly makes possessed worth using... maybe. Armies that struggle with Ld are gonna have a bad time with the -2 Ld
>>46567726
>I thought the Ultras had the second most TDA, numbering around 60-70 suits?
the numbers are all way higher than that
sons of horus had like a 1000+ justaerin all in terminator armor
>>46567741
Pretty sure there's a rule called Relic of the Armory that basically makes certain versions of units(deredeo, plasma cannon predator, javelin) "rare"
>>46567718
Yeah, but before it was a special rule in a small box, instead of a full data sheet
>>46567641
It was dumb that they retconned female marines out of rogue trader in the first place. Whoop dee fucking doo if it's been 30 years and they choose to reverse it.
>>46567773
nice blog post friendo
>>46567788
That's FW stuff, and it just means that you must have a Techmarine before fielding more Deredeo than an average chapter has dreadnoughts.
>>46567726
Obviously it's a thought experiment, I just wanted opinions with minimal bait replies, and didn't expect to get that in a front page thread.
>>46567598
>heavy bolters
maybe
>lascannons
3 max probably 1 or 2
>mortars or rocket launcher
if he spaces properly 1 if you're lucky
>>46566705
>>46566834
How are the Deldar doing? That used to be my main faction. I still have a couple raider models and my old Haemonculus that I customized to a ridiculous extent.
I heard a rumor the other day that Deldar are now full chaos or some stupid shit?
Guard where my other army so it sucks that they ain't doing so hot.
Mechanicus army sounds like fun though.
>>46567819
>rules discussion is blogging
>>46567069
Your points are valid, but there's no comparing ectoplasm to grav.
>>46567698
I'm aware that they're Daemon exclusive, that's why I used the contracted form of "would."
>>46567670
If you legitimately think the variances between Guard regiments or codex compliant SM chapters are analagous to the differences between CSM warbands, you're delusional.
>Each Black Crusade has been part of Abaddon’s carefully laid plan; each furthering his goals in some significant way. The culmination of Abaddon’s grand scheme is nothing less than the death of the Emperor and Humanity’s enslavement at the hands of the entities of the Warp. Across ten millennia of strife, Abaddon has crafted his dark strategies; each attack, each world destroyed and each army vanquished is but a part of a much larger war. Always at his side is the Black Legion, on burning worlds and in shattered cities, their howling chainswords and barking bolter fire heralding the coming End Times.
>Thus is the shadow of Humanity’s downfall cast by Horus’ lost sons. It is the gravest threat the Imperium faces and the very tolling of doom that echoes out from the Eye of Terror. Where the black-armoured warriors of the Legion tread, cities burn and Imperial worlds fall. Star systems are purged and vanish from the void, their citizens slaughtered and their histories wiped away. To swear eternal loyalty to Abaddon and become a traitor Space Marine in the Black Legion is to become a warrior of the End Times and stand triumphant over countless worlds turned to ash and blood.
So I am reading the updated BL supp.
They sure mention the "End Times" a alot. You guys worried about this?
>>46567788
Yeah, basically ou can only have one "Relic" unless you take a Techmarine (Loyalists) or a Warpsmith/Sorceror with Daemonology (Chaos).
So if someone rolls out two Deredeo's without a Techmarine, call shenanigans on them
But anyways, while you are right, for a small tax you can spam rare stuff anyways
