Hello out there /tg/, We've got some callers with us today telling us about some of their favorite low level encounters1-3 rangeor just encounters they would like to run in that range, anything from interesting diplomatic missions to a unique twist on the 'kill rats in the cellar' we all know and hate. You probably won't hear much about goblins here!TLDR: Post unique low level encounters, They don't strictly need to be combat. Things you have seen, used, or would like to use and really liked or like the idea of.
Escape from prison through the sewers.
Where you will fight giant rats.
Helping a farmer bring in his cattle.
And having to fight giant rats.
I like to have them band together to fight a monk who had a little too much to drink. They don't need to kill him, just weaken him enough he calms down. Then the innkeeper pays them as thanks.
Only occasionally does someone decide to ignore the fight, But they usually got roped in by the monks drunken sloshing.
The entire party playing a strategy game against a master.
And being interrupted by Giant Rats.
>>46494663
My GM once threw me up against wood golems. Fucking animated marionettes.
I do not recommend doing this if your players are pyromaniacs with a habit of lateral thinking. Or direct thinking.
Or rather, there's a good reason most enemies aren't made of wood.
>>46494733
I don't get it. When do the giant rats come into play?
>>46494795
This actually sounds amusing, 'Shit does anyone have a torch?' 'No i bought sunrods' 'me too, why would we get torches when we can get sunrods?' 'shit'
Also guess which one is the dwarf.
>>46494810The monk is a bunch of giant rats in a suit. When they beat him he falls apart and the rats begin attacking everyone
>>46494810
Maybe once the monk settles down it's revealed that he's just a bunch of Giant Rats in monk's clothing?
In typical RPG fashion you encounter a giant rat but it has one HP.When you kill it, it explodes into Mini Giant Rats
>>46494795
So did they beat the golems by setting giant rats on fire and aiming them at the golems?
Just trying to stick with the apparent theme here.
>>46494856
Large rats?
>>46494858
Why is that the theme we picked anyway? OP specificaly says 'you probably wont hear about goblins here' i thought we would all be talking about goblins.
>>46494882
Sounds like something a GIANT RAT would say! You're just trying to redirect us to goblins!
>>46494933
What if the goblins are riding giant rats?
>>46494996
Well now THAT'S just silly.
They'd have to at least be dire rats.
>>46495012
Or pygmy goblins.
>>46494663
What if rats are setting traps for people?
>>46495046
Well pygmy goblins sure, but they're hardly native to most starting zones, right?
Deadly brumby encounter
>>46495321
I have no idea what a brumby is, so I'm assuming it's a type of Giant Rat.
>>46495321
Brumby...Somekind of drunken giant bee?
Im sad this ended up being a meme thread i wanted ideas for my complain
>>46495361
Well if you want idea for complaining then by god you've come to the right place!
A rodent farmer's prize capybara was stolen by some bandits and he can't afford the ransom.
He can offer a reward of potted giant rat meat and a bit of coin.
Local villager #523 was mysteriously killed one night last week while out in the woods. Thanks to the village priest they got better though! However they no longer have a shadow. Go find it!
Shadows are low enough level undead, right?The original shadow can be from a giant rat for the sake of the joke.
>>46495361
If you don't like giant rats, there's always the option of using colossal mice, or perhaps gerbils of remarkable size.
>>46495516
capybaras are naturally the size of dogs, making them the largest rodents on earth
>>46495609
Giant Capybaras are confusing the local gay population
Unironically, A unique low level thing to do is to legitimately just have them sent to collect taxes for a local lord, no guaranteed combat unless they are super pricks. Also lets you chain in any sort of ambush or whatever you want.
i like when we skip the boring levels and go right to level 7-10 where things can actually be fun.
A fairly feeble ghost is haunting someone's new loot. It wants to see something interesting before passing on, and uses ghost sound, dancing lights, and minor telekinesis to bedevil the party member until they do something cool enough.
An imp in a circle, with an item or information the party needs. Breaking the circle is a really bad idea.
A very young pickpocket tries to lift a macguffin or just cast from a PC. A chase scene ensues.
>>46495788
Iunno about all the way to 7, but i tend to skil to 3.
>>46495820
i don't think i've ever had fun with a character mechanically until i hit level 6 at least, and it's only really enjoyable at 10 or higher.
being trash tier is just not fun. i don't like killing rats.
>>46495833
Level 3 is enough for you to be very strong, Barb1 Alch1 Fighter1 master race.
>>46495853
>5e
>>46495865
Pathfinder
>>46495880
even worse
>>46494663
>Post unique low level encounters, They don't strictly need to be combat.
Labyrinth with cranium rats.
You need to gather enough rats in one place for them to become a sentient hivemind, so you can reason with it to let you out.
All while the rats are trying to kill you.
>>46495833
>>46495865
Epic Six, you faggots. The sixth level is pretty much THE level of every low-fantasy campaign.
>>46495905
>low-fantasy
who the fuck actually enjoys this?
go play song of swords or something if that's what you want.
>>46495923
If I wanted to play wuxia or supers, I'd play Exalted or Mutants and Masterminds.
Sorry, mate, but DnD (3.5/PF especially) falls apart at higher levels, as you can achieve anything and be almost omnipotent by using a few spells.
Well, here is our party - a cleric of Groetus, a Paladin, a Ranger who darts to a nearest tree to snipe everything, a magus who has a bad luck with dices, and me - a barbarian girl.
We are all lvl 4.
I just took off my armor, when all of a sudden - a dire boar appears near our camp searching for people who killed its sows. Since i had only 10 hp on me, i took my armor and hid behind a tree. It took me 5 rounds to put it on. I did a raged power atack with my earthbreaker.
BAM - 20!
Ok, time to confirm...BAM 18!
In 9 sessions, that were my first critical, and i whacked that hog into a pulp.
Turns out - it was already in minus HP, and all i did was an unnecesery overkill.
>>46495944
>DnD (3.5/PF especially) falls apart at higher levels
If your DM is shit or you can't restrict yourself as a player from abusing things, then yes.
If you have a competent DM and your players aren't faggots then it's fun.
also fuck off with your "anything above 6 is wuxia or superheroes" bullshit. i don't want to fight manticores and dire rats; i want to fight dragons and shit.
with that being said, is exalted 3e finally done yet or no
>>46495968
>If your DM is shit or you can't restrict yourself as a player from abusing things, then yes.
Anon, RAW shoud work as RAI.
Moreover, RAW should be simple and concise.
With Vancian casting it's almost impossible to control or predict all the loopholes and abuses players can come up with.
So is the DM at fault for following the RAW?
Fuck no.
>>46496003
it's not hard to google "wizard handbook 3.5" and look at all the shit that's colored purple and simply ban it all.
that's what the powerabusing players do anyway. they just google their class + handbook and pick all the purple shit.
so like i said, if you ban/restrict all the ridiculous shit, and your players aren't shit, then high level D&D 3.5 is fun.
if you have the guy who made Pun Pun or wants to play ANYTHING as a venerable dragonwrought kobold, then you should boot him from your group immediately.
>>46496023
Anon, a well-written game forces even a munchkin player to adhere to its RAI.
I realize that I'm about to make a strawman argument, but if you're banning shit, then you are establishing houserules (i.e. "this class isn't legal to play"), and if you are establishing houserules, you might as well play a different game, because at this point you are no different from "NO ITEMS FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION" crowd.
You are digging through the pile of shit, trying to get the diamonds from the familiar system, when you just try out a different system and get the diamonds in a neat packaging without any or with considerably less shit.
>>46496065
>you might as well play a different game, because at this point you are no different from "NO ITEMS FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION" crowd.
That's retarded and wrong.
>You are digging through the pile of shit, trying to get the diamonds from the familiar system,
No, the powergamers are the ones who dig through the pile of shit to find the overpowered stuff. Banning them is more like erecting a shit forcefield.
>>46496087
>That's retarded and wrong.
What is?
In the example above, the Smash players want a competitive experience akin to more traditional fighting games, without any element of chance.
The thing is, the random element is one of the key features of the Smash experience.
It's like eating a strawberry ice cream and complaining there isn't enough chocolate in it.
Same here. DnD was largely inspired by Tolkien, Moorcock and Howard, all of which are more-or-less low-fantasy, and is often used with expectation of emulating the genre.
Gandalf can be emulated with a level 5 or 6 character, for fuck's sake.
So why would you use a system, the key inspiration for which was low-fantasy and thus it is most suited for it, to emulate high-fantasy?
>>46496142
It isn't most suited for low fantasy and your example is dumb because banning or restricting yourself from becoming pun pun is very different than FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION which is just autism because the other characters don't break the game, nor do other stages, they just want to be sure they know the ins and outs of their opponent on a barren stage where only skill matters.
Removing infinite money and power word no is not the same and you know it.
Hired by farmers to actually do physical labor
Have them escort the princess.
The trip is uneventful but shes a huge bitch.
>>46494663
Ghouls in the cemetery!
>It's actually gang of grave robbers
>They wake up an Old vampire
>Party has to decide to help the robbers or let the vamp drain em.
>vamp just wants a snack before he goes back to torpor for another couple of centuries.
>>46497107
Sounds like a good level 3 thing, Would use.
>>46495883
Have you never read 5th Ed? Alchemist isnt even a thing.
>>46497131
5thed is best because it has FLYING BARBARIANS FUELED BY ANGER
They have to fight a band of 4 equally leveled adventurers with suboptimal builds.
>>46494663
Raising a fundraiser for renovating a disrepaired local house of worship, with many fun hijinks along the way
>pic somewhat related
>>46495083
Rats are migratory, though.
>>46495788
I prefer level 5-12 from 7-10 myself.
Much more giant rat opportunities that way too.
Get polymorphed into Giant Rats, fight low level adventurers
>>46497434
Well of course! Rats, giant or otherwise, will go were they please.
Wait, are you suggesting the Pygmy goblins hitch a ride on migratory rats and... what? Just don't get off, see where the ride goes?
Troupe of saleswizards traveling the countryside, aggressively selling their magical services and wares by casting them on random people as they shout out rhyming slogans and jingles.
I'm of the opinion that most gm's fundamentally don't understand how to run a low power campaign. The big key is to know how to make lower stakes dramatic. I think a lot of folks stick "saving the world!" and super epic things as a crutch because they can't create tension without the fate of a kingdom being in the balance.
A big thing too is that the numbers on a characters sheet should be a fraction of their power. If the players start buying businesses, founding churches, creating spy networks, building warbands; then they can fight way higher level threats. I like to have players level up slow and by level 6-8, I can throw small armies and dragons at them.
I like silly encounters. And areas with encounters that are the same power level regardless of the party level. Teach the fuckers to think on their toes and play smart when low level, have a goal for them when they get to higher levels.
Here's an encounter I made recently.
The fool prince and is three knights. The fool prince is on a quest to find the king of fools. The prince is stuck in a tree, shouting imperious orders at his knights to aid him. A black knight with a kidnapped maiden is running away. The princes lance is in a separate tree. His horse in in yet a third tree. His hound is biting the heels of one of the knights and his hawk has flown away. None present can agree as to what happened. All but the prince agree that the black knight has won their duel.
>>46500715
A man in an alleyway wearing heavy coats asks the players if they want to buy a pie. The First and a Half Congregational Method Tabernacle of our Lord and Savior has voted through the public assembly a law in this district to outlaw street vending so that congregants aren't “harassed” on their way to and from service. They pay the street vendors guild a tribute to keep their compliance with the measure. The pie seller may try to enlist the players in his operation if they impress him, drawing them into the dangerous world of undergound street vending. If caught, the players will be cruely punished with four hours of community service, cleaning the pews of the church.
I like to have a sort of "main" quests but throw a lot of side quests like this at the players. I think this would be a good "b" plot for a couple sessions and would be good to introduce NPC's with.
>tfw gm gives someone hell knight armor at level 4
i honestly think this guys only been hit once since level one
meanwhile im knocked unconscious every other encounter
>>46500715
>small armies and dragons at level 6-8
Even in 3.5, even if you were making a cheese class, you would be hard pressed to fight small armies and dragons at those levels unless you specifically set up environmental hazards or weaknesses for the characters to exploit, or dumb down the encounter.
>>46501123
Depends on the Dragon man. My first D&D party killed a young black dragon at level 3. Hell, we killed 2 of them. I mean, one at a time and the first one died before it was supposed to so the GM threw another one at us immediately, and a houserule was banned from that point on.
>>46501159
what edition
what dragons
what party composition
what houserule did you cheese
>>46494663
had the players pick up a job from a bounty board cause they needed some gold, they looked at all the quests and saw "missing cat, please find" and figured "this will be easy hur hur hur" in reality the cat was a shapeshifter and turned into things like birds and giant spiders in an attempt to avoid being caught.
>>46496755
>Have them escort the princess.
>The trip is uneventful but shes a huge /h rat /h
>>46501123
Don't play 3.5, it's that simple. Last campaign I had, it was 5e and the players took over village with an orc warband of about 20 soldiers. Then by level 8 they were taking on much higher level encounters and had become a regional power.
Get some commoners to help run supply trains and siege weaponry can make a big difference as well. OSR games support this kind of gameplay pretty well too.
The point though, a player with a spy network and information about a setting is more powerful than a player without. The player can do things like fuck over a kingdom through a financial play by knowing a currecny change is happening before anyone else does. A player with influence in a city government is more powerful than a player who doesn't. If you can throw ninja-assasins at a BBEG's mooks, then it frees time for more important things.
A lot of players and GM's get stuck thinking a characters power is only in one person and what they wear. Key to running a low-power campaign is that increasing the numbers on your sheet isn't the only way to increase your power.
Hell, it's straight boring when the only difference between level 2 and level 8 is in bigger numbers, then it's not meaningfully high power. If the basic gameplay of "go into dungeon, fight dudes and take their treasure" is the same thing we're doing at level 3 as we are at level 10, then "high power" is completely fucking cosmetic.
>>46494663
>Ethereal jaunts are shifting all around towns and people are freaking out wondering what the hell these things are despite how they're not particularly dangerous, maybe a few attacks at most.
>The bigger question is who opened up a portal that weakened the gap between planes and if there's stronger creatures than these jaunts on the materium.
Pic related as it helps if you describe a creature looking different than it's basic bitch artwork. Magical chiuahuahs.
>>46501362
>Don't play 3.5, it's that simple. Last campaign I had, it was 5e
Stopped reading here.
>>46500880
>my gm gave another player a +10 sword at lvl one in 5e.
>It was also bound to him and couldn't be lost or stolen.
>>46501423
I ran 3.5 for 12 years, no amount of house rules can keep it from being trash. Almost any semi-popular system is more well designed.
>>46501504
>no amount of house rules can keep it from being trash.
you suck as a DM, your players are shit, or both.
>>46501520
I'll admit it's hard to salvage 3.5 players but when the choice is houserule 3.5 to hell and back and double the amount of prep I have to do or play a different and better system...
Why would I choose to not just play something better? CoC, LotFP, 5e, mutants and masterminds, runequest, BoL, stars without numbers, etc. Do I really need to keep listing better systems?
>>46501571
>but when the choice is houserule 3.5 to hell and back and double the amount of prep I have to do
well you wouldn't have to do this if your players weren't shit eating faggots that tried to break the game at every opportunity, now would you?
i've been in a rotating DM 3.5 game for the last 10 years and even when we have players who "powergame" (and by that i mean make character that have the potential to break the game), we don't have any problems because we understand that breaking the game is not fun for anyone but the faggot doing it.
i don't think 5e is a better system but that's not for this thread. i don't know any other systems indepth enough to talk about besides song of swords and exalted.
>>46501608
The players never broke the game actually. That was never the problem, most of them were shit at optimizing.
There pro blem was most 3.5 players are trained on 4 encounter a day at near their CR, fairly linear adventures, etc. None of them could think outside the box, would play like retards and rage if a character died so fights couldn't be a decent challenge.
The main problems I have with 3.5 is that it actively fights a GM who likes to have more imrpov heavy sandbox games. The skill system becomes a binary pass/fail deal at higher levels, the feat system clamps down om improv in combat being mechanically viable, larger scale combats are a clusterfuck or require a separate mass combat system to run, the pricing and downtime rules have to be completely rewritten if a reasonable campaign is meant to be run.
This whole thing started because I was talking about how to run a good low power campaign and 3.5 just isn't well suited to that campaign style. Hell, the setting assumptions it makes is for a high power and high magic world.
>>46501683
>good low power campaign
>larger scale combats are a clusterfuck
just don't play D&D if this is what you want. especially the large scale combat shit.
>>46501504
This. The only ways I've seen 3.5 work are
>Getting rid of core classes which no one wants to do.
>Playing Pathfinder... and still experiencing a lot of 3.5's problems.
People say D&D has become too much like an mmo but in reality the problem is D&D plays more like a collectible card game where power-creep comes out of nowhere from a random splat-book, and it's typically the original player's guide that has all the worst elements of shit classes and uber builds.
Take Yugioh for example. Pendulum is akin to psionics or tome of battle, people complain about it, but it doesn't really break the game. If anything it speeds up decks that used to lag behind, much like tome of battle exists to help the power-curve of martial classes. People are complaining about this new element when arcane casters/XYZ are these all encompassing utilities, when rituals are either extraordinarily good (complete divine feats, alternate class features) or piss ant. (The classes in complete divine.)
Fighting some drow assassins, a zombie beholder, and a few skeletons, and a drow mage has always been a good level 3 encounter.
>>46494856
>Mini Giant
That's an Unusual Size for a Rodent
>>46494663
not exactly one, low-level encounter, but I had an idea once for a low-level campaign where the players play as the children of great adventurers going to a Goblin and Kobold camp.
Said camp was actually a themepark for adventurers, wannabe adventurers, and even training soldiers where they could practice their skills on real enemies and through use of the "merciful" enchantment over a large area, everyone dealt non-lethal damage to one another.
>>46501212
3.0
Two young adult Blacks
Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, Sorcerer.
Houserule was 3 nat 20s in a row was an insta-gib. My fighter beheaded the first black. So the DM said that rule no longer applied, and threw the dragons "mate" at us and we beat that was legit.
>>46502334
i do not believe level three characters could kill a 3.0 young adult black dragon unless your DM was a fucktard and didn't know how to play them.
>>46501767
Jesus, that was EXACTLY HIS FUCKING POINT!
>>46502427
He was running a modual. This was well over a decade ago, so I could be wrong, but I think it was the one with the tree growing out of the vampire at the very end?
>>46494663
I've been fond of having the PC travel to and from their adventure destinations and sprinkling a few random encounters throughout like a wrecked carriage that is an ambush set-up by bandits who are more than likely to get a surprise round.
>>46502471
>He was running a modual.
so an inexperienced DM.
yeah there's no fucking way you could have won if he wasn't new.
i have also ruined my DM's BBEG who had been turned into a giant incredibly powerful robot by getting three 20s in a row. He was disappointed, but said "them's the rules" and was a good sport about it.
>>46502513
>>46502471
It was a baby white dragon, CR 3 or something.
He was running sunless citadel, I recognize the module.
>>46502567
>a baby white dragon
oh okay. that's believable then.
>>46494663
I once hit a troll so hard in the balls with the butt end of a halberd that it exploded. I think the party was level 3 at the time.
>>46502567
Yeah that's the one! I remember that name.
And hey, it was over 10 years ago, sorry for not remembering the details right.
I saw three players kill a troll at level one once. They used grappling hooks with iron chains to get it to the ground by hooking it and then going around two pillars to use like a pulley for greater leverage so it couldn't move.
Then they doused it in molotov cocktails until it was dead.
Trees around a small farming community seem to shift in position when you're not looking at them. They surround houses and then fall on them. They have done this to 4 houses so far and are currently surrounding a 5th, the mayor's house. He offers them gold to rid them of this problem and says that cutting them down seems to do nothing but delay them as other trees of the forest take the place of a fallen one.
>>46502596
yeah man, it's a fun encounter. My players allied with the kobolds and started a turf war with the goblins.
It was fun, one fight had the goblins run away from the players. The players kept chasing into rooms with other goblins who rn away because they saw people running. Eventually the players hit a dead end and there were like 16 goblins fighting them then.
>>46502639
Consider this stolen. This seems like an interesting one.
>game just started
>party is walking around, exploran'
>suddenly, armed man steps out of the shadows and block their path
>as he talks with the party, more of them show up and surround the party
>all of a sudden a scream is heard close by
>the party and the NPCs turn around and see a gang of bandits approach
>the party and the NPCs work together to defeat the bandits
>NPCs were cool guys after all
Party encounters a mountain pass where a caravan of scared merchants are huddling, refusing to go any further. They say someone on the other side is firing a ballista at anyone who tries to go forward. The bodies of a few guards that were guarding the caravan can be seen further ahead in the pass, shot dead with ballista bolts piercing them, about 50 feet apart each. The pass is roughly 200 feet long and the walls of it are very steep, but climbable.....if exposed. Sound carries quite well through it and low chanting can be heard.
>party comes upon a group of dwarves arguing loudly with each other in their own language
>a bandit with a crossbow is sitting to the side, looking bored
>a couple hours ago he told them "Your money or your life!"
Horde of cats fight horde of giant rats.
Party stuck in crossfire.
>OP asks for ideas for low-level campaigns
>half the thread is shitposting by anons who, personally, don't enjoy playing in low-level campaigns
i swear a serial killer could easily murder 2/3 of /tg/ by putting a sign that said "in this room are people enjoying an activity that you don't like" over a door that led to a spike pit.
anyway, back on topic: your party has been drafted into the army of the ever-expanding empire. you're on the front lines - deep inside enemy territory of the next kingdom - and the main body of the army is routed. total chaos. run for your life. try to make it back to the empire (or murder your sergeant in his sleep, throw away your uniforms, and try to pass for natives?) bad guys can be local farmers, bandits, other units in the army who did / didn't desert, enemy soldiers, etc. to scale with difficulty as needed. also, general survival missions to find food / shelter / etc. thoughts?
>>46494663
One of my personal favourite things to do at low levels is investigative stuff.
Most recently I had one member of the party be arrested as a suspected necromancer (he was a summoner with a summon fluffed as an undead) and get hired on to find the actual necromancer plaguing the city.
He then had to recruit other party members, go find evidence, fight a few constructs and gradually track down the actual necromancer and kill him. It allowed plenty of character-establishing RP, some puzzles and such and a healthy bit of combat so everyone got to get a good feel for their characters.the party almost tried to kill one member because he finished off the necromancer when the rest of the party apparently thought he should be brought in alive
I like sending players after kobolds.Who they later find out were serving an adult dragon.
>>46502629
a fucking troll couldn't make the check to break the chains? a check that should have been reduced given the strain the players would have been putting on the section of the chain from the pillar to the hook by winding it around?
>>46504861
The troll has like a 20 strength and the chains are made of heavy iron. We're talking 20 foot chains that way 40 lbs. The pillar pulley allowed the players to overpower the troll and then it's a matter of wrapping more and more chains around it. They only had to get him to the ground and then they attached a couple more chains to him. Also the troll was on fire and being stabbed with spears the moment they managed to get a hit with the grappling hook.
Also, the molotovs were attacking touch defense since you're just trying to hit it.
>>46504861
I mean, unless a troll has more strength than a pickup truck, the chains aren't going to break. Use a tree as a winch to pull a car that's stuck or in the mud. The fucking tree will break and the trucks rear bumper will fall off long before the chains will.
>>46505022
>>46505109
given that the players were adding tension to the chains and the troll is a fucking troll trying to burst the chains as well as he can, i don't think that should have happened. i would have reduced the strength check necessary to break a link in the chain or at least tear the damn hooks from it's flesh.
>>46494663
This is from when I GMed.
Group decided they wanted to save time and go through the woods instead of staying on the roads to the next major town. Group got hopelessly lost due to bad rolls and had to find shelter for the night in the woods and dive into a big cave.I'll admit I wanted to fuck with the group a bit after a streak of terrible rolls.They go diving into the cave and find a dragon in there. Dragon lifts its head up a bit and looks at the terribly equip level 2 group and goes "You lot in the right place?" Party panics and most start scrambling for something to hide behind screaming something along the lines of "Oh shit, it's a dragon!", but one guy decides to explain that they were lost as fuck. Dragon tries but fails to suppress a laugh and tells them "Alright you can sleep here the night but don't you dare touch my stuff" and in the morning points them in the general direction to go.
I had intent to have a dragon be in the story at the mid game so said dragon shows back up much later and finding it hilarious that the people leading the defense of their kingdom are the same hobos that showed up at his place at the most a year ago.
The local barman offers the PCs free lodgings and a hot meal if they stop the frequent visits by a hooded figure (a cultist) and his two bandit strongmen enforcing a "safety tax" that's driving the local farmers to the brink of ruin. Old Jacob up north got his right arm broken so bad that he can't do any fieldwork for another season last time they were around and people are even poorer now. The barman even promises to toss in a freshly baked pie if the PCs can ensure no villagers gets their limbs broken this time around.
>>46495788
The game stops making decent sense around 8th level, and dives straight into class-feature hell alongside.
When I did play D&D, levels 2-6 were always my favorite, because at that level improvisation and quick wits in a fight still mattered. Too high level, and every problem can be solved by the casters or an appropriately worded divination spell (see also: casters).
Shame me and the ole DM never actually got the rest of the party to play E6.
>>46505674
>Too high level, and every problem can be solved by the casters or an appropriately worded divination spell (see also: casters)
shame your DM sucked and your players tried to break the game and were faggots.
>>46494663
Let's see. A good level 1 encounter?
Alright.
There's a small town out in the boonies where the recently dead have been going missing and some graves have been dug up. The people are in an uproar, being superstitious, and the few educated authorities in the town rightly fear a necromancer has moved into the area, and therefore have asked the party to investigate.In truth, it's the occupant of the first grave to be opened, who was a practicing cannibal in life and became a ghoul in death. He's been hiding in and around the town, trying to stave off his inevitable decline into madness with fresh meat.
>>46505853
It was about the time that he tried to say that using too many at-will divination abilities (which are a dime a dozen, see: paladins) would give you magical eye cancer, that everyone involved realized there was something wrong.
"This poorly designed game is only broken if your entire table is dickables" is a lame meme.
>>46505937
>"This poorly designed game is only broken if your entire table is dickables" is a lame meme.
played 3.5 for 10 years. never ran into the problems you're describing because the people i play with aren't faggots and try to abuse spells, and anything that relies on divination or falls under a god's purview is subject to its will.
i.e., augury and such hardly ever works because gods just don't give a fuck about your problems.
>>46506155
>casting spell is abusing them
Using a tool you have intelligently *shouldn't* be a problem. If we need a gentleman's agreement not to use what the game provides, who exactly is at fault there?
Why open the door to the next room in the dungeon, when first we can see, for free and by the rules, before even trap checking, if it contains
>magic
>evil
>undead
Look, I also played D&D for -like- half my life. It was generally fine and functional until Greg decided he needed to be the most powerful character in the party, because then, yeah, things really started to break down.
But the things that bother me with the game were always there. The general uselessness of base classes like the Fighter. The hardlined gold economy for the sake of combat balance. The indefinite nature of many of the game's abstractions. The inherent superiority of casters at all higher levels. Etc.
AD&D was pretty good, even if it whored out tables like nothing else, because it usually only put down rules for fighting and looting (because D&D is really just a game about fighting and looting) and left the rest up to the DM and his players to figure out. 3.5 was in a really awkward place where it was trying to be a roleplaying game with rules for the actual roleplaying, but couldn't hit the mark.
5e? I think it's a good beer-n-pretzels game. It's easy to pick up and run a one-shot with. But I will never run a campaign with it.
>>46506387
As a DM whom started in 4e, tried pf and moved to 5e, can I ask why the disdain for 5e?
>>46506468
Most 3.5 players I've met grudgingly like 5e but think it lacks the character customization to really hold interest in a campaign.
As far as 3.5, I'm glad that 5e at least seems a bit more flexible in what kind of settings, games, and whatnot it can run. Simple, rugged and flexible is what I'd say its strengths are, it's not an easy system to break.
>>46506626
True that. I feel its better balanced, if only marginally, as well.
On top of that, its the first system in a while that I could actually find people to play so I guess I may be biased.
Long time listener, first time caller. I'll just get right to it:
My eidolon was a two-headed glowing serpent at the time, and I ran this con where I'd use it to frighten women and children, then pretend to vanquish it and earn renown as a hero to get free stuff from the townsfolk.
As the day turned into evening, I met a guy who saw through my scheme right away, but decided to help me instead of out me. We wandered over to the tavern to hustle some of the drunks with Follow the Lady and that kind of simple stuff.
After about thirty minutes, an Elf and a Human near the innkeeper yanked a dagger out of his corpse, and tried to frame me for his murder using telekinesis. My partner set a table on fire as a distraction and everything went from bad to much much worse. The tavern exploded, and the mayor used our alleged involvement to force us into investigating the spooky burned-down orphanage outside of town, where we may or may not have found werewolf fur and children's clothes in the basement.tl;dr 'you all meet in a tavern'Yes, the ones who tried to frame us were the other half of our eventual party
>>46506468
Though 5e makes a lot of weird compromises where it's probably better to houserule parts of it to suit your taste.
Things like at low levels, they wanted it to be deadly so players have relatively low hit points. But they didn't want folks to die easily so there's the death system that makes it very hard to die.
So you end up in a weird situation where someone goes unconcious lots of times in low level combats but isn't in real danger of death. Increasing hp or making it more lethal, either way would improve the game rather than a compromise that just doesn't really work.
>>46506626
>it's not an easy system to break.
moon druid
champion fighter with GWM
>>46506468
Mostly because I've moved on from the D&D style of play; I try not to run or play games primarily about fighting and looting, and as such, many other systems that have the strengths I desire exist. I also have become uncomfortable with class-based systems.
As for what I have against 5e in specific:
I'm still ambivalent on its decision to make most-every roll possible on a 19 at level 1.
I don't see a lot of room for mechanical growth in the core book to make a character interesting mechanically over a campaign.
I appreciate what they tried to do with backgrounds, I really do, but the result is just as mediocre as 3's attempt at social skills.
The abstractions will forever be annoying to me on an autistic level.
>>46506705
Yeah, you can come up with 2 ways. How many ways is there to break, say, 3.5?
>>46506657
True. I feel like instead of having Tier 1 to Tier 5 classes, it has Tier 2 to Tier 4 classes. It tamps down some of the ridiculousness of high level casters though for optimizing, it's still abuseable through breaking the action economy.
>>46506705
"Harder to break" does not mean "impossible to break."
>>46506727
>How many ways is there to break, say, 3.5?
since there are no splatbooks for 5e I'll restrict 3.5 to core.
in which there are 3 ways to break the game, and only really at high levels.
moon druids and champion fighter with GWM shit on fucking everything from very early on and only get better.
>>46506705
Moon druid sucks past level 6 in actual play.
Champion fighter with GWM is only breaking the game in combat rather than at the everything level you could get away with in 3.5.
As far as breaking the game, I'm more referring to houserules. A lot of the rules are more compartmentalized than in 4e or 3.5 so fucking with things is less likely to have unintended consequences.
>>46506757
Druids in Core are pretty strong right out of the gate.
>>46506716
I can certainly agree, the abstractions are annoying as all hell, and of course your choice of system is your own. However, to address some things:
The roll thing isn't really like that. Most things that are normal are possible, in a vacuum. However, when you add in things like disadvantage or contextual modifiers, they can become significantly more difficult, if not nigh impossible. Its really down to the DM, though I did go easy on my party at first and still witnessed a quite a few abject failures.
As regards mechanical growth, I have to admit Im sort of confused. Can you explain further?
And yeah, backgrounds are frustrating. Nice touch, not implemented as well as it could have been
>>46506755
>"Harder to break" does not mean "impossible to break."
It's not hard to break at all. Those are two PHB options that only require minimal reading to break the game.
In comparison: a wizard/cleric/druid needs access to feats and spells from like every fucking book ever published for every campaign setting until he gets to 8th/9th level spells.
For druids to become wildshaping monsters you need to waive the requirement that they have seen and interacted with whatever they are wildshaping into or they're stuck with bears, basically.
>>46506667
Props to the DM for managing that mess.
>>46506795
>Moon druid sucks past level 6 in actual play.
Haha what? Explain yourself.
>Champion fighter with GWM is only breaking the game in combat
Well that's good because D&D is at least 50% combat.
>>46506838
See, thing is, the game actually doesn't usually play out like that.
The gwm champion does own in combat. What else would you expect of it? It sucks outside combat and offers little by way of flexibility.
As for the druid, the wildshape restrictions tend to limit the effect of that.
Honestly, the most OP things Ive had in my games so far was a tiefling sorcerer that used Thaumaturgy to seem like an avatar of a God and his massive cha to manipulate the fuck out of people and a Barb who somehow always made the most impossible fucking rolls and crushed in melee.
>>46506828
>failing rolls
Yeah, the dice can be fickle. My sister once rolled seven consecutive 1s, including two percentile rolls.
Like I said, I'm ambivalent. One of the things I remember complaining about when it was released was peasants being able to hit a Pit Fiend.
>mechanical growth, can you explain further
As I recall, most classes get all their core class features by level 4 or 5, and all of their development past that is adding variations or modifiers onto those features.
I appreciate it as an attempt to give low levels something to do - to feel like their class - but if I'm performing the same actions for most of my career, things can get kind of boring. (see: the Full Attack problem of 3.5). It puts more impetus on the DM to makes things interesting through the situation rather than as a natural outcome of the game itself.
Perhaps I'm just overthinking it.
>>46506881
>D&D is at least 50% combat.
So your DM doesn't give you puzzles, difficult terrain and social scenarios? That sorta sounds like a fault of DMing more than anything else.
As a DM, I don't consider a session complete unless theres some combat, some terrain issue, some mental exercise and some social interaction. Pure combat just feels lazy and its pretty boring to DM
>>46506913
>Thaumaturgy to seem like an avatar of a God
You shouldn't have allowed this because it's out of the scope of the spell.
>his massive cha to manipulate the fuck out of people
skill descriptions still have clear limits on how much you can manipulate someone even if you roll a 400 on your influencing roll.
sounds like you just didn't know the rules.
>>46506881
Moon druid starts to have pitiful damage and substandard attack bonus when whildshaping while being unable to cast if whildhsaped.
It's good but it's really only good for tank builds or as a utility option to add to the full caster goodness. The wildsaped form will struggle to stay relevant compared to dedicated martials at higher levels.
I'd even go so far as to say that 3.5 animal companion was far more broken than moon druid.
>>46506967
Its not outside the scope of the spell to ''speak with a booming voice, make the doors bust open as I speak and have Ravens begin to show up outside the tavern''. Combined, those effects would be pretty fucking convincing to someone if you wanted to seem godlike, wouldn't you say?
And yes, they have limits. Thats called DC. I set the DC before each attempt he made at manipulation and he made the fucking rolls. How is that hard to understand?
>>46506961
>difficult terrain and social scenarios?
these are easily solved.
>puzzles
depends on the puzzle. most of the puzzle stories i've read on here are just plain bullshit.
i remember a puzzle we were faced with once where we had to unlock someone from an artifact level wall chain thing. we had a keyring with 32 keys on it and the room was entirely blank, as was the keyring. oh and all the keys were artifacts so you couldn't identify or do anything with them.
i had to sit there and try each key one by one until we got to the right key (it was number 27) getting zapped by lightning each time.
a lot of puzzles i've seen on here are like that.
>>46506946
I do get where you're coming from regarding mechanical growth. However, Id say its less about it not being there and more its tied to your decisions.
Spell choice and archetype on their own give significant room for mid-level growth and that doesn't even include the possibility of multi-classing and feats, though those are considered variant.
It still starts to get stale by the time you reach end game but by that point the game is transitioning from development and such to full on power-wank, in my experience anyway
>>46507052
>these are easily solved.
Thats not the point though. They are scenarios where in a GWM Champion generally has to step aside. I mean, your average fighter is using cha as a dump stat and usually lacks things like, say, fly.
As for puzzles, they're hard to do but thats why Id usually avoid outright puzzles. I prefer to include investigation and preparation elements to the game, especially since one of my players loves those. Even something as simple as trying to work out where to go to fight the necromancer (basement under a church best accessed by the church though they went through the sewer)
>>46507020
it's a fucking cantrip and you should only be able to convince the most idiotic peasants that you're an avatar of god with it. convincing anyone else is just ridiculous and stupid.
oh and i don't know what kind of gamebreaking manipulation you're talking about, but it's probably outside the scope of what's possible with a charisma check.
>>46507157
A third opinion:
People IRL use a combination of deception and persuasion to convince folks that they are a prophet in direct communication with the divine.
In a world where the divine explicitly exists, convincing peasants that you're a (demi)god is absolutely possible.
I'd make it take more work than a first impression though.
>>46507157
I never said they were gamebreaking, mate, just OP.
One notable example was when the sorc used a cha check to turn what was supposed to be a duel against a much too tough enemy into a 2 on 1. The dude was honourable and prideful, sorc appealed to his pride and got him to agree to fight 2 of the party, especially since they were tired from a day of fighting while the other dude was fresh
And yes, it was usually used on dumbass peasants and less-worldly sorts. It still let him muster a small army to assist the PCs in taking back Greenest because they thought a God was on their side.
I did probably fuck up by giving them a guards statline instead of a commoner with a dagger though, I will confess that.
>>46494856
Why not just use a Gas Spore at that point?
>>46494663
I want a Tucker's Kobolds style sludge through a living hell with miniature-golems instead of kobolds.
Lot's of mechanized traps to make the players piss themselves
>>46494663
The local giant rat offers payment to clear the barkeeps out of his basement.
>>46509299
Now, tell us, why are all the barkeeps in his basement?
>>46511702
What am I?A rat?
>Local parish is worried about undead
>Go to remote farmer's lodge
>It's a grieving father who lost his wife and children in a bandit raid and just tried to re-animate them
>You killed the skeletal remnants of his family, ancestors and friends before confronting him
>>46494663
Town is besieged by kobolds riding giant rats. Kobolds are mainly archers, led by a sorceror. They use mongol horse archer tactics and are incredibly difficult to catch.
>>46503186
I would play it.
Besides just encounters; anyone else have alternate or unique low level monsters?
>>46516509
Gary Oak style Rivals make good enemies.
