>That Guy who plays a cleric but doesn't worship a god
Then why even play a cleric in the first place? Sure the rules allow it, but that's just lazy.
>>46487821
>that guy who starts 100 threads complaining about petty things every day
What even is the point?
Deal w/it berk
>>46487821
Play in the Forgotten Realms. The party needed a "healer" and Paladin didn't cut it.
Maybe they just misread it and took it for cleric as in theological scholar?
>Not worshipping your own imminient divinity
>Not worshipping your god-self while still seeking your ascension
>Not becoming a god by becoming the avatar of your own divine self and granting your past self priesthood
>Then laughing as the rest of the group tries to untangle the cause-effect knot you just created
>>46487821
Because I'm either in Greyhawk, which I could fluff as me being a paragon of my ideal, or Eberron, where the gods existance is questionable.
>>46487821
I worship faith itself, the gods are merely small aspects of that. Worshiping one would be like a mage only studying evocation. Possible, but limiting.....
That's how I'd fluff it anyway. Actually have a Paladin I want to do this too, but more because he's become the agent/avatar of several gods and is a bit disillusioned/burnt out and is trying to find a new path of faith.
>>46487821
I'm going to play a cleric that worships almost every god. like, he has a different god to worship for every day. so many. I stole it from here http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2014/10/least-priests-pantheism-and-god-prisons.html?m=0
>>46487821
Maybe I just want to be a healing battery because the party fucking needs one because nobody else wants to fucking heal people, but I don't want to have to put on airs about a bunch of theological bullcrap.
> Oh you worship Thor that means you'll want to get involved with the church and I should make quests and shit surrounding other clerics of Thor telling you to do shit and you don't get to say no
No you fucking shit, I just want to heal people. Why is this such a hard concept for you to understand.
>>46488023
Because that ability to heal is coming purely from you asking your higher being to give you the power to do so? Why is that so hard to understand?
>>46488058
not according to the system bromecles.
They want to be devoted to a pure concept and not a slave to a deity. Nothing wrong with it.
Though it is sort of following the black truth of Sertrous and slowly killing the gods.
>>46487821
It does annoy me as well, mostly because it's like being spiritual Tofu. Flavorless, but you can still consume it.
Of course, if someone throws the "atheist cleric" or the "worship myself" at me, i do my best to dissuade them, and then. at some point, have them just run in to a god. Not like, "I AM THE LORD THY GOD" but more like, "Yes, I am Thor. But Right Now I Am Acquiring Snacks For Divine Poker Night. Hugnin Suggested This Tavern's Thinly-Sliced-Dried-Venison-Chews."
>>46488058
If the rules state your cleric doesn't require a deity, then it's reasonable for the cleric without a deity to heal others through sheer force of will, or imparting their benevolence to others through supernatural means. There's a lot of flexibility when it comes to fluff in this regard.
>>46488108
Where do their powers come from, if not bestowed by a concious being?
>>46487891
I want this so much. Too bad my GM would never allow it.
>>46487821
>not being an atheist cleric
>not playing the gods' rivalries against each other
>not having new domains every day
>not using the lack of conflicting interest to befriend deities
>being this pleb
In a world where every god's existence is proven well beyond a reasonable doubt, worshiping just one seems dumb.
>>46487821
I wonder if there's a tally for how many times this thread has been made.
>>46487891
Vehk, go home.
>>46488130
Perhaps it comes from meditation and self perfection, like a Jedi.
>>46488058
Maybe if there was another class that could heal they'd play that.
Man that reminds me of the time my group played d20 Modern. The only way to heal was to succeed at a Medicine check, which healed 1d4 damage. Assuming you succeeded, you could only do that once per day.
d20 is terrible.
>>46487891
>[Muatra intensifies]
>>46488185
That's because fast healing is unrealistic. d20 Modern is all about being realistic.
>>46488126
Yes, but I said Higher Being, not Deity. The clear implication is that the power is bestowed, not intrinsic. And I am perfectly ok with the idea of a godless Cleric, but not a FAITHLESS one.
You can ignore the politics of faith regardless of what you believe, but you can't ignore the tenants of it.....whatever you may decide those are. That is all I would ask of a cleric player without a god.
>>46488130
Sertrous didn't explain where it comes from, but it does come nonetheless. The ideal itself grants divine powers.
This is straight from the Elder Evils splatbook.
I like to think it comes from a nameless ineffable Overgod who maintains that concept, but then I like inserting the fundamentals of Zoroastrianism into my cosmology.
>>46488152
Fantasy Flight Games had a very nice set of Deities in it's Dragonstar setting which would upset your (and most other Atheist cleric) apple cart. Any given world could have whatever pantheon it wanted, but the over-church had figured out that, regardless of what they were named, they were just projected aspects of the *actual* forces of divinity: which was boiled down to a collection of abstractly defined entities. There was a heretical sub-faction of the church that boiled it down even further, to just two entities, which were just "the positive god" and "the negative god."
Of course ,that was a setting where capital E Evil was in charge of the universe, only really being held back by 5,000 years of Good-aligned bureaucracy, so there was an ongoing purge of the "good" deity's Paladins, through mandatory suicide missions. Meanwhile, Antipaladins were given cushy positions and cake missions to further Evil's cause.
>>46487871
Isn't there a specific class just for that? It's basically a wizard that can take cleric/druid spells.
>>46488219
That made me laugh. Thanks, man, I needed that.
>>46488367
In 3.5 there was the archivist, which was the cleric wizard.
>>46488403
No prob anon, I too know the suffering of playing d20 Modern.
Personally the idea of clerics has always been dumb to me but then again so is the arbitrary distinction between divine and arcane, but that part is neither here nor there.
Imagine this. A wizard would be comparable to someone who goes to an institute of higher learning (i.e. College) to get a degree. You can also get your masters of Divinity or other some such degrees in theology is school as well for academic reasons. Just because you have those doesn't mean you're automatically a member of any specific priesthood.
I think this would be a good segway into an actual divine class because then becoming part of a certain religion opens you up to learning spells or abilities specific to that religion which would give them far more character then domains which is my other complaint about the arcane/divine split because on it's own divine is very boring and and cookie cutter as Arcane which fits that better to me because it seems like they would be general scientific way of doing a spell.
>>46488522
Please explain again. My eyes just glassed over.
>>46488130
In Eberron, a cleric and paladin's power comes from believing hard enough/faith itself.
Somehow, they've failed to militarise this as whenever they try to have Clerics powered by nationalism, it's always failed.
>>46488420
Archivist could literally cast every spell in the game as a Divine Spell, through some small cheese. Cheese nonetheless, however.
>>46487821
it's fine as long as they're still religious. if the character has a genuine religion which happens to not feature any gods (and ideally not just "I worship the concept of [domain]") then great. something like a buddhist priest still fits the cleric archetype pretty well, or at least as well as D&D classes fit anything.
>>46487821
There are settings that don't have gods anymore. Aiden comes to mind.
>>46487821
Okay /tg/ riddle me this.
Paladins can draw power form their codes of faith.
Why can't clerics do the same? Its the same realm of power, right?Or are Paladins not able to worship deities anymore? I think I missed the memo.
>>46488556
I see, I'll try my best
In my opinion, a wizard is comparable to a scholar who gets their education in a institute of higher learning.
In that sense, you can learn about divinity and religion in school and be an accomplished scholar in that field without ever being a member of any religion or church organization, granted there are people who do and then become priests or whatever.
What I'm saying is, the Cleric as a class is useless and, at best, could be downgraded to a Wizard Archetype because the only thing that actually seperates them is the use of domains.
Further still, I think it would be neat if every named religion and god in any of the settings had something actually unique about them that translated into gameplay beyond domains like say you are this wizard but decide to join the church of bumfuck, You would thien learn spells specific to bumfuck that you wouldn't be able to learn on your own.
>>46488668
they can, that's why OP said "the rules allow it"
>>46488708
Not in the latest edition they can't.
>>46488797
DMG has a section about "forces and philosophies" as a source of divine power, including for clerics. it's noted as a campaign-specific thing, but then the PHB never forces you to pick a god in the first place.
>>46487821
I want to play a "melee healer" and either another churchgoer didn't inspire me, or the GM was terribly vague on what the deities were in the setting. Paladin doesn't cut it, and Paladins should have gods as well.
You want me to pick a god and roleplay praying to them? Make it interesting and make it worth the work. Don't make it a lodestone hanging around the Cleric's neck and then act surprised when some people discard it.
>>46487891
>>46488158
>>46488189
Thank you, muthseraa for the laugh
>>46487821
Likes the idea of a character drawing power from their belief in something, but none of the deities appeal to him.
Perhaps his character has a powerful belief in hope for the future of mankind or redemption. Perhaps his character has a powerful belief in the value of war.
I see no problem with a character like this.
>>46488706
Or, you could do away with all spellcasting classes but have a versatile knowledge-based class with wisdom and charisma subclasses. Then, magic would be wholly based on joining different cults and religious orders, performing complex rituals learned from ancient texts, and unlocking the power of your own will. Basically, a magic system based on real-life mysticism and alchemy. This new scholar class would be the most talented in it, but other classes could do some magic with a bit of work.
>>46488014
I was going to condone you for shilling, but that's actually pretty neat.
>You curse the priest you decided that sex-day should come after combat-day.
>>46488653
But wouldn't they just get their spells from beings like Bodhisattva and Wisdom Kings ?
Unless they tapped into Buddha Nature before death. But wouldn't that fall under the Monk class ?
>>46487821
When was the last time you saw player in DnD actively worshiping his god that wasn't evil or goofy?
>>46487891
That'd actually be a pretty fun route
>Love the concept of Paladins
>Heroic characters with heroic powers that protect the innocent and are champions of that which is good. Semi-magical/divine, powered by their beliefs.
>Hate heavy armor, prefer light armor and dexterity setups, because of skills primarily.
>Love stealth, which is never really on a Paladin's set of skills, often too honor-bound to consider sneaking around
>In some settings, they're all about God, in other settings they're a little more flexible and instead are just the champions of Good
>ALWAYS Lawful
>I'll never be able to play a Neutral or Chaotic Good Paladin-esque Rogue or Rogueish Paladin who is a paragon of morality while being sneaky and using light armor.
Sometimes, classes hurt me deep.
>>46493420
The problem with this is that we associate things that somehow need to be pidgeon holed into a very specific thing and can't get out of it.
For example, if I had a fighter who found he took a liking to a certain religion and got up in their ranks and started preaching why couldn't he be a cleric and get some spells but still be a sword swinging badass?
>>46494620
Pretty sure paladins could be CG in 4e
>>46494704
But that once again has a Deity attached.
Because he worships an ideal?
Polytheist clericss in D&D never made much sense to me. They don't fit in especially well with the pulp tradition the rest of D&D has, where gods were either ignored, a short joke, or fuel for any kind of evil wizard.
The Christian vampire-turning cleric doesn't fit in well either, but at least it fits in a Medieval European wargame. And it doesn't force you to wonder why chaotic gods have holy texts to study, or why they all have favored and taboo weapons. At some point, you just need to accept the cleric flavor is a Christian flavor, probably not that hard to stretch to any Abrahamic religion. All the other Greek-, Egyptian-, and Norse- styled religions really need a different kind of class with different requirements.
>>46487844
Athars. Totally an original concept and nothing like the real world Cathars :/
>>46494842
>magic ain' gotta splain shit
>healers don't fit fantasy
>muh diversity
1. Faith healing is a global cliche IRL, and polytheism isn't 'faith' in settings where gods are explicitly real - it's just situational awareness.
>>46488334
Is...is this setting as dumb as it sounds?
>>46487838
To be fair, i find it obnoxious as well. Yes, we get you dont believe in a god in THIS universe, but the gods in the one we are talking about do shit.
>>46487844
>>46487821
This is a D&D thread and the problem with the "gods are just super powerful monsters" argument is that from 3.5 and on
1) it's true
2) it doesn't matter because if you believe in a super powerful monster you'll get spells from your faith
So the difference between a god and a monster is a moot point when you can pray to both and still get spells.
>>46495378
So....they're right.
They're not just one of many weird, wacky, not-as-smart-as-other-quirky-90s-factions-and-that's-fucking-saying-something groups from Planescape.
Their underlying philosophy - Gods are not the be-all end-all of creation, and divine might can come from elsewhere - is the default truth of modern dnd.
This isn't really a 'problem' for the Athar.
They won.
>>46494620
Why wouldn't you be able to play a paladin-esque rogue? I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, unless you subscribe to the idea that rogues are all asshole thieves.
As for a rogue-esque paladin, in 5e at least, you could take the urchin or spy background for stealth proficiency as a paladin, and be whatever alignment you want.
>>46487871
Oooh I had a character like that. He was a middle aged Dwarf that traveled from town to town collecting and writing about the local deities in this massive tome he carried around.
He had no one god he worshiped. He didn't even really worship the divine, but rather the knowledge of divinity itself.
Game was only like 3 sessions for me, i just dropped in on a friends during a visit home.
I do wanna play him some more, he was a chill character.
>>46495579
Think back to 3.5 for a second.
The paladin is a base class while the Black Guard was a PrC that anyone could take so long as they met the requirements obviously
So technically you could be a wizard and be a black-guard. Why couldn't this be true for the Paladin? I think it was a mistake to make the Paladin only be a dude in armor who swords and boards like a fighter
>Sure the rules allow it, but that's just lazy.
Well no, remember the gods are a distant second to the greater powers of the cosmos. Good and evil, law and chaos, the planes and that which begat the planes. Why serve a stripling who's been defeated many times like Lolth or Orcus, when you could gain the power straight from the Abyss?
Seriously, gods are annoying, childish egomaniacs. In most cases, they did utter jack shit to deserve their power. Best example is ... what was it, Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal or something? They got godlike power just by asking.
Divine power comes from inner strength and ego.
'Cleric of Communism' is a 100% viable concept.
In Eberron there are clerics of totally 'non-divine' deities. There are clerics of the Blood of Vol, and of the Lord of Blades. Vol is an elf half-dragon lich who wanted to make a cult, and the Lord of Blades is a 12th-level fighter in 3e.
>>46487821
I'm confused, what's the problem?
You yourself admit the rules are there, and as I recall there's some (vague) fluff to go with it (worshipping ideals and all), so as long as the person is a decent roleplayer and the character is somewhat interesting I don't see a problem.
It could be that they have an interesting character concept for that, it could be that they want the Cleric skillset without all the theological business, or it could be some other reason.
>>46496194
>I'm confused, what's the problem?
A setting should have either real gods channeling power or power based on faith alone.
Mixing the two makes gods superfluous. It's just one of many problems with D&D's philosophy.
>>46488522
>>46488706
>>46491882
what the fuck
get out of here
>>46496238
I disagree, but I can see where you're coming from.
I, personally, tend to subscribe to the more fantastical "there's one of everything somewhere in this world" type of fantasy setting, so having the occasional dude who worships "justice" or some shit (and actually gets magical power from it) is fine with me.
That said, I'd prefer it had some kind of mechanical distinction from regular Clerics (to help show why you don't have a bunch of those sorts of people running around), though if we're getting into that sort of thing I'd also want to see more of a distinction between Clerics and Wizards, and so on, so that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
>>46495927
Didn't they have a PrC for that? I lost track of all concepts, but they had hundreds if not thousands in the WotC books alone. The closest I can think of to a multi-alignment paladin PrC was the Pious Templar. However, there was probably a more rogue-friendly PrC with religious stuff in some of the books.
Any rogue may want to be a defender of the innocent and righter of wrongs, and there are bound to be ways they can be granted some divine magic to do it better. They just have a slightly different skill set.
>>46496166
That depends on the setting. Personally, I find "inner strength and ego" as a source of supernatural power works much better for psionics rather than divine magic. The Ardent fits "clerics of causes" well enough.
Well I would just remove arcane spellcasting and objective gods entirely.
If a god did something you should have no way to be sure they actually did it.
>>46487844
Is there a planescape tabletop rpg? Ive seen this pic and another before. If so, where can i find it?
>>46487821
>Player always chooses Cleric in any game
>"I don't believe in a god, I believe in myself!"
>"You can't do that, choose a god of Trickery."
>"What if I got kicked out from the faith?"
>"Then how are you still a Cleric?! Choose a god of Trickery!"
>"Can I homebrew a god? I want it to be a Beholder with a sun as it's symbol!"
>"Ehm... You're new and I like that are creative, but let's pick something that is already in the books. There's lots! You're a gnome, what about Garl Glittergold?"
>"Nah, what else you got? Loki sounds cool!"
>Later on another player convinces him to choose Garl just because his symbol is a golden nugget...
He wasn't a troublesome player, but he was hard to handle. He lost interest after two sessions.
>>46494620
Avengers in 4e.
Paladin of Vengeance with high Dex and Breastplate armor in 5e. Those are basically the same but are more flexible. That's how you Sneakadin.
Or just Rogue with the Acolyte background. You can do this! It's all doable!
>>46499438
So basically you wrangled this player trying to get him to fit the mold only for him to go do something else after two sessions.
Sounds like a lot of wasted effort, to me.
Should've just let him believe in himself.
>>46499928
There was no theme, but a cleric needs to believe in a god. He was new, so he had to learn that.
No effort in people skills, negotiation or social collaboration is a wasted effort. It takes practice. I can't predict what he was going to do for the rest of that campaign.
>>46496900
It is a setting for 3.pf I believe
>>46496900
Not sure if bait... but I'm gonna take it.
It's D&D 2e, where the Planescape setting comes from. This is probably from a book about the Planes of Evil or something.
>>46487821
A cleric is literally ''the chosen one'' of a god.
You are not a cleric by being a priest (but that's often the case).
You don't even have to be a follower of said god.
Sometimes gods force you into that role.
The last time i MC-d a Monk, after reaching level 11 as a Sun Monk and leveling up to lvl 12 , my character was prancing around in a local arena training with some of the guards and a bunch of priests and paladins barged in shouting ''Deus Vult!'' , '' Praise the Sun'' , ''Chosen one!'' etc. and carried of my character against his will.
A week later my PC is back with some additional Sun tattoos and is able to cast cleric spells.
>>46488367
It's a person gifted with magic knowledge by a god or earning that knowledgy through training as a priest of that god.
A cleric can be a ''Serf McPeasant'' who suddenly heard the voice of some strange dude teaching him magic so he can defend his home from Orcs.
>>46494620
Play a Swashbuckladin.
4 levels in Rouge to get Swashbuckler and your first ASI, 1 level as Dragon Sorc (for Draconic resilience-free mage armour), All else into Paladin.
At lvl 10 you have your extra attack.
Before that just use Booming blade or Green flame blade and retreat with Cunning action.
You need to get your Starting stats to 13 Str, 13 Dex and 13 Cha first tho.
Double your expertise into Stealth from Rogue.
There you have it.
Call your self some monster hunter working for a deity or church under a contract.
Get your hands on a dragon heart to munch on or something (arrange that with your DM) to become a Dragon Sorc.
Then join the Church/Crown whatever organization as paladin.
>>46487821
Pretty much the situation I'm in, left it blank becuse I can't find any god I want but I'm still looks
>>46494622
In D&D terms thats called taking X levels in Fighter and X levels and Cleric.
>>46494842
Dude the Egyptian pantheon was ALL about law. With some exceptions like Set (and we all know how much the rest of the gods liked him) each god was dedicated to upholding Maat or law and destroying the servants of Isfet or chaos - which just so happened to manifest as undead or demons.
The primary tool for fighting Isfet was Heka or magic which was learned from holy texts given to priests from the gods.
>>46487821
> Then why even play a cleric in the first place? Sure the rules allow it, but that's just lazy.
There are religions without gods, you know. That includes both settings and real life.
>>46487961
Or you could play the Paladin as its meant to be, which is a warrior of JUSTICE who doesn't follow any one god in particular, or even if he does he doesn't get his powers from that god. He literally draws power from COSMIC JUSTICE to travel around and mete out JUSTICE. Personal headcanon says the JUSTICE aligned gods all donate a small bit of power to s cosmic community fund which is what the paladins draw from.
>>46488522
>>46488706
I always figured a high enough level wizard should be able to study the energy make-up of spells and be able to replicate them, regardless of arcane or divine. It's all a matter of application of energy, amiright?
>>46489586
>Paladins should have gods as well
No.
Also the other classes have similar lodestones but don't have to RP it out. Fighters spend hours training to gain more mastery; Wizards still have to spend hours researching and memorizing spells; Druids spend hours communing with nature to draw on its power; Rogues... I dunno, twiddle their thumbs to keep up their dexterity or something; Rangers spend hours honing their tracking skills for new favored enemies, and spend days in terrain to familiarize themselves to the level "Favored Terrain" gives them; Monks do kung-fu movie montages; Warlocks spend their nights begging their patrons to not murder them; Barbarians... go out in the woods and scream a lot? Maybe toss a couple of trees or boulders around?
My point being each class has to train for that next level of progression to gain those new class features. This is never RPed.
>>46495290
Most people never interact with a god, or know any more than we do in real life whether a god exists. Sure sure, holy men perform miracles on a common basis, but so do those asshole wizards and the only worshiping they do is self-worshiping.
>>46487838
The point is he gets off to shitspamming his animu samefaces on /tg/.
Well, I mean, as long as you're a priest in a religion, does it really matter if that religion involves deities or not?
>>46503714
pray the God of your domain
>>46507712
Problem is virtually none of them that have the two domains I took are of an alignment that would take my PC
>>46487821
>Not playing a deist, a medieval Jedi or a man who just believes in those higher concepts.
>>46508758
>higher concepts
>>46508848
Well I assume those are what the OP is referring to: in PF a cleric can have such a strong belief in something that he gets powers from it.
>>46508959
>belief
>>46487844
This is literally just the philosophies of a well informed and well fedora'd wizard. Real world parallel aside.
>>46488014
There's also the Priest in 8-bit Theatre that does the same effect. Its kinda funny sometimes. Oh wait, of course >>46488152 beat me to it. Thats what I get for being late to the party.
So here's how I've always seen the Divine/Arcane split in my own mind. Take it or leave it.
The gods are known, their power is known, and praying to them grants you abilities based on the deity's whims in proportion to the strength of your belief. Naturally it takes lots of practice to strengthen your faith like a muscle and become favored. But divine power still comes from somewhere.
Arcane magic is the expression of power from the physics of the cosmology itself without a divine entity as an intermediary. Sorcery is expressing magic through force of will and focus allowed by a deeper connection to the fabric of existence.
Wizards learn to pluck the fabric of reality through study. I often mentally compare it to the process of computer programming, but you're hacking physics. Meanwhile clerics and warlocks are just picking between 31 flavors of Apple or Microsoft. Just borrowing software.
>>46487891
Nice try, Anton LeVay.
>>46493483
That kid looks like a monkey. But a pretty cute one, so I am torn about how to interpret it.
> "That kid you drew looks like a monkey, but he's a cute monkey, so that's okay, maybe?"
>>46487821
It's cool if he follows a creed or an order, but then you'd not call him a cleric ingame.
The class still works tho.
>>46500518
Butthat'sfuckingwrongyouretard
Someone post Yagrum with a fedora
>>46507937
what are your 2 domains?
>>46514413
Community and Protection
>>46514688
athena would be reasonable and non-setting specific, or you could worship two different gods with those domains
>>46487821
well if they have no character reason for it then yeah that's kinda lazy but nearly any justification for not worshiping a specific deity/deities is backstory fluff.
It would be the DM's job though to hound his character on that trait, A whole world filled with literal gods where really everyone should worship someone, why not THEM?
the only thing that allows paladins/clerics go atheist is 'dis:
>>46514770
>Athena would be reasonable and non-setting specific,
Possible, though might not fit with the worldbuilding so far
>or you could worship two different gods with those domains
I had not considered that, I like it but it could run into loyalty issues
>>46487891
Too bad monk sucks
>>46487821
Shit man, what anime is that chick from?
>>46514842
>where really everyone should worship someone
But why? What has a god ever done for me?
>>46494620
I am currently playing a rogue/paladin, shit is so fun, just ask your GM if you can ignore the lawful only restriction and you too can be a cool fun having guy like me.
>>46487821
Believe in an ideal, not an idol.
I don't think you should be able to just believe in a concept and get divine powers. You should believe in a god.
You absolutely can believe in a god that embodies the concept you wanted to believe in originally, though. You shouldn't be limited to The Boring List of D&D gods. You should absolutely be able to come up with your own.
>>46487821
Because we need a healer and the stupid bullshit setting says the only medicine that has ever been developed is faith healing.
>>46500695
For AD&D you dumb fuck.
>>46487891
Wait... Even if you did worship yourself, you still have to become a God. No GM will allow you to become a God.
>>46488152
Actually, this is a very good point.
If god exist, and there are more than one, the only logical thing to do is to worship the strongest one, that will protect you from the wrath of the other gods. In other words, you want to do what would essentially put everything back to an atheist world.
>>46520475
What if the strongest one won't protect you?
